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Posted to users@netbeans.apache.org by Will Hartung <wi...@gmail.com> on 2021/09/14 17:34:40 UTC
With JDK 17, Oracle moves back to a free license
JDK 17 is out.
And there was this interesting development.
https://blogs.oracle.com/java/post/free-java-license
Top two bullet points:
+ Oracle is making the industry leading Oracle JDK available for free,
including all quarterly security updates. This includes commercial and
production use.
+ The new license is the "Oracle No-Fee Terms and Conditions" (NFTC)
license. This license for the Oracle JDK permits free use for all users,
even commercial and production use. Redistribution is permitted as long as
it is not for a fee.
So, I thought this was interesting news.
Regards,
Will Hartung
RE: With JDK 17, Oracle moves back to a free license
Posted by Rob Walker <ro...@ascert.com.INVALID>.
Agreed – also how I read it
For any vendor working around Java, this doesn’t really change much. You cannot bundle in an app you charge for, or use as part of a service you charge for. At first, I though this might just be if you try to charge a fee for the JDK part itself. But the wording seems quite clear, that any fee charged for the overall bundle/service prohibits this. So Oracle still haven’t fully let of the idea that their JDK distro is something they want to charge fees for in some way – you could argue why should they too, it’s their distro after all that they spend time and money on. It is a shift though, and there are still plenty of other distros with permissive licensing that allow bundling.
-Rob
From: Scott Palmer <sw...@gmail.com>
Sent: 15 September 2021 02:31
To: Geertjan Wielenga <ge...@googlemail.com.invalid>
Cc: Will Hartung <wi...@gmail.com>; NetBeans Mailing List <us...@netbeans.apache.org>
Subject: Re: With JDK 17, Oracle moves back to a free license
That says for a year after the *NEXT* LTS release, so not until a year from now. That should mean a year after JDK 21 is released in 2023, so freely supported for 3 years from now.
I’ve been using Azul builds these days anyway, since they make a JDK with Java FX included.
Scott
On Sep 14, 2021, at 1:40 PM, Geertjan Wielenga <ge...@googlemail.com.invalid>> wrote:
*
* “Oracle will provide these free releases and updates starting with Oracle JDK 17<https://www.oracle.com/javadownload> and continue for one full year after the next LTS release<https://blogs.oracle.com/java/post/moving-the-jdk-to-a-two-year-lts-cadence>. Prior versions are not affected by this change.”
How much of your software needs to run for one year only?
Gj
On Tue, 14 Sep 2021 at 19:35, Will Hartung <wi...@gmail.com>> wrote:
JDK 17 is out.
And there was this interesting development.
https://blogs.oracle.com/java/post/free-java-license
Top two bullet points:
+ Oracle is making the industry leading Oracle JDK available for free, including all quarterly security updates. This includes commercial and production use.
+ The new license is the "Oracle No-Fee Terms and Conditions" (NFTC) license. This license for the Oracle JDK permits free use for all users, even commercial and production use. Redistribution is permitted as long as it is not for a fee.
So, I thought this was interesting news.
Regards,
Will Hartung
Re: With JDK 17, Oracle moves back to a free license
Posted by Scott Palmer <sw...@gmail.com>.
That says for a year after the *NEXT* LTS release, so not until a year from now. That should mean a year after JDK 21 is released in 2023, so freely supported for 3 years from now.
I’ve been using Azul builds these days anyway, since they make a JDK with Java FX included.
Scott
> On Sep 14, 2021, at 1:40 PM, Geertjan Wielenga <ge...@googlemail.com.invalid> wrote:
>
>
>
>
> “Oracle will provide these free releases and updates starting with Oracle JDK 17 and continue for one full year after the next LTS release. Prior versions are not affected by this change.”
> How much of your software needs to run for one year only?
>
> Gj
>
>> On Tue, 14 Sep 2021 at 19:35, Will Hartung <wi...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> JDK 17 is out.
>>
>> And there was this interesting development.
>>
>> https://blogs.oracle.com/java/post/free-java-license
>>
>> Top two bullet points:
>>
>> + Oracle is making the industry leading Oracle JDK available for free, including all quarterly security updates. This includes commercial and production use.
>>
>> + The new license is the "Oracle No-Fee Terms and Conditions" (NFTC) license. This license for the Oracle JDK permits free use for all users, even commercial and production use. Redistribution is permitted as long as it is not for a fee.
>>
>> So, I thought this was interesting news.
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Will Hartung
>>
Re: With JDK 17, Oracle moves back to a free license
Posted by Will Hartung <wi...@gmail.com>.
On Tue, Sep 14, 2021 at 10:40 AM Geertjan Wielenga <
geertjan.wielenga@googlemail.com> wrote:
>
>
> -
> - “Oracle will provide these free releases and updates starting with Oracle
> JDK 17 <https://www.oracle.com/javadownload> and continue for one full
> year after the next LTS release
> <https://blogs.oracle.com/java/post/moving-the-jdk-to-a-two-year-lts-cadence>.
> Prior versions are not affected by this change.”
>
> How much of your software needs to run for one year only?
>
They give you a whole year to port to the new LTS!
I thought it was an interesting development. There's also apparently issues
with distributing the Oracle JDK, since lots of folks are bundling the JDK
into platform EXEs nowadays.
So, it's no panacea, but interesting.
Regards,
Will Hartung
Re: With JDK 17, Oracle moves back to a free license
Posted by Geertjan Wielenga <ge...@googlemail.com.INVALID>.
-
- “Oracle will provide these free releases and updates starting with Oracle
JDK 17 <https://www.oracle.com/javadownload> and continue for one full
year after the next LTS release
<https://blogs.oracle.com/java/post/moving-the-jdk-to-a-two-year-lts-cadence>.
Prior versions are not affected by this change.”
How much of your software needs to run for one year only?
Gj
On Tue, 14 Sep 2021 at 19:35, Will Hartung <wi...@gmail.com> wrote:
> JDK 17 is out.
>
> And there was this interesting development.
>
> https://blogs.oracle.com/java/post/free-java-license
>
> Top two bullet points:
>
> + Oracle is making the industry leading Oracle JDK available for free,
> including all quarterly security updates. This includes commercial and
> production use.
>
> + The new license is the "Oracle No-Fee Terms and Conditions" (NFTC)
> license. This license for the Oracle JDK permits free use for all users,
> even commercial and production use. Redistribution is permitted as long as
> it is not for a fee.
>
> So, I thought this was interesting news.
>
> Regards,
>
> Will Hartung
>
>
Re: With JDK 17, Oracle moves back to a free license
Posted by Emilian Bold <em...@gmail.com>.
Indeed, there is no reason to switch back to Oracle JDK unless you want
legal ambiguities. There are many JDK vendors/builds now, the Oracle build
doesn't have anything fancy, they themselves tried very hard to kill it and
now want back into the spotlight. I don't think it works that way and I
can't think of a reason a corporation would use them without a support
contract with them. It's only risks.
--emi
On Wed, Sep 15, 2021 at 3:28 AM Andreas Reichel <
andreas@manticore-projects.com> wrote:
> All,
>
> in my opinion, even if Oracle changed the terms and meant it (which would
> be welcome of course) -- there won't be a guarantee, that they will
> flip-flop again after a new lawyer/COO/whatever arrived.
>
> Any corporate's worst nightmare is to a java stack running, which is
> suddenly affected by such legal threads. Its all about trust and
> confidence, not necessarily about technical performance.
>
> So at least for us, it is Liberica and as little Oracle as ever possible
> and no announcement is going to change that.
> Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, try to avoid.
>
> Good luck.
>
> On Tue, 2021-09-14 at 19:12 -0500, Raul Cosio wrote:
>
> Thanks Will, interesting reading but I still don't get it. Comments from
> the group are welcome.
> I've read the license many times but it doesn't look clear to me, the
> license says that It grants to you, a limited license to internally use the
> unmodified programs for the purposes of "developing, testing, prototyping
> and demonstrating your application, and running the program *for you own
> personal use or internal business operations*". That last part does look
> to me the same as the last license because it means that I can use the JDK
> for my "private personal use", and in my company I can use it "for
> internal business operations". Running the JDK for a public tomcat web
> server is considered internal business operations?. However, as you
> indicated in your email, Donald Smith in his blog, said that "it is free
> for commercial and production use" as long as it is not redistributed for a
> fee. Would that mean that I can sell my product with a JDK included as long
> as I include a paragraph saying that "The JDK is included freely as a
> courtesy"?
>
> Regards,
> Raul Cosio
>
> On Tue, Sep 14, 2021 at 12:34 PM Will Hartung <wi...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> JDK 17 is out.
>
> And there was this interesting development.
>
> https://blogs.oracle.com/java/post/free-java-license
>
> Top two bullet points:
>
> + Oracle is making the industry leading Oracle JDK available for free,
> including all quarterly security updates. This includes commercial and
> production use.
>
> + The new license is the "Oracle No-Fee Terms and Conditions" (NFTC)
> license. This license for the Oracle JDK permits free use for all users,
> even commercial and production use. Redistribution is permitted as long as
> it is not for a fee.
>
> So, I thought this was interesting news.
>
> Regards,
>
> Will Hartung
>
>
>
Re: With JDK 17, Oracle moves back to a free license
Posted by Andreas Reichel <an...@manticore-projects.com>.
All,
in my opinion, even if Oracle changed the terms and meant it (which
would be welcome of course) -- there won't be a guarantee, that they
will flip-flop again after a new lawyer/COO/whatever arrived.
Any corporate's worst nightmare is to a java stack running, which is
suddenly affected by such legal threads. Its all about trust and
confidence, not necessarily about technical performance.
So at least for us, it is Liberica and as little Oracle as ever
possible and no announcement is going to change that.
Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, try to avoid.
Good luck.
On Tue, 2021-09-14 at 19:12 -0500, Raul Cosio wrote:
> Thanks Will, interesting reading but I still don't get it. Comments
> from the group are welcome.
> I've read the license many times but it doesn't look clear to me, the
> license says that It grants to you, a limited license to internally
> use the unmodified programs for the purposes of "developing, testing,
> prototyping and demonstrating your application, and running the
> program for you own personal use or internal business operations".
> That last part does look to me the same as the last license because
> it means that I can use the JDK for my "private personal use", and in
> my company I can use it "for internal business operations". Running
> the JDK for a public tomcat web server is considered internal
> business operations?. However, as you indicated in your email, Donald
> Smith in his blog, said that "it is free for commercial and
> production use" as long as it is not redistributed for a fee. Would
> that mean that I can sell my product with a JDK included as long as I
> include a paragraph saying that "The JDK is included freely as a
> courtesy"?
>
> Regards,
> Raul Cosio
>
> On Tue, Sep 14, 2021 at 12:34 PM Will Hartung <wi...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > JDK 17 is out.
> >
> > And there was this interesting development.
> >
> > https://blogs.oracle.com/java/post/free-java-license
> >
> > Top two bullet points:
> >
> > + Oracle is making the industry leading Oracle JDK available for
> > free, including all quarterly security updates. This includes
> > commercial and production use.
> >
> > + The new license is the "Oracle No-Fee Terms and Conditions"
> > (NFTC) license. This license for the Oracle JDK permits free use
> > for all users, even commercial and production use. Redistribution
> > is permitted as long as it is not for a fee.
> >
> > So, I thought this was interesting news.
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Will Hartung
> >
Re: With JDK 17, Oracle moves back to a free license
Posted by Raul Cosio <rc...@gmail.com>.
Thanks Will, interesting reading but I still don't get it. Comments from
the group are welcome.
I've read the license many times but it doesn't look clear to me, the
license says that It grants to you, a limited license to internally use the
unmodified programs for the purposes of "developing, testing, prototyping
and demonstrating your application, and running the program *for you own
personal use or internal business operations*". That last part does look to
me the same as the last license because it means that I can use the JDK for
my "private personal use", and in my company I can use it "for
internal business operations". Running the JDK for a public tomcat web
server is considered internal business operations?. However, as you
indicated in your email, Donald Smith in his blog, said that "it is free
for commercial and production use" as long as it is not redistributed for a
fee. Would that mean that I can sell my product with a JDK included as long
as I include a paragraph saying that "The JDK is included freely as a
courtesy"?
Regards,
Raul Cosio
On Tue, Sep 14, 2021 at 12:34 PM Will Hartung <wi...@gmail.com> wrote:
> JDK 17 is out.
>
> And there was this interesting development.
>
> https://blogs.oracle.com/java/post/free-java-license
>
> Top two bullet points:
>
> + Oracle is making the industry leading Oracle JDK available for free,
> including all quarterly security updates. This includes commercial and
> production use.
>
> + The new license is the "Oracle No-Fee Terms and Conditions" (NFTC)
> license. This license for the Oracle JDK permits free use for all users,
> even commercial and production use. Redistribution is permitted as long as
> it is not for a fee.
>
> So, I thought this was interesting news.
>
> Regards,
>
> Will Hartung
>
>