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Posted to dev@cocoon.apache.org by Stefano Mazzocchi <st...@apache.org> on 2000/09/17 02:34:38 UTC
Re: [C1] The new FAQs...
Robin Green wrote:
>
> ...are not ready as promised yet, sorry. They won't build yet due to a bug
> in the change in the xsl and dtd to allow FAQ sections. Maybe Sunday or
> Monday... (okay, it is Sunday, I know.)
>
> Question: Assuming I was crazy enough to want to do this, how would I go
> about implementing automatic page splitting with Stylebook (e.g. new HTML
> page in the FAQ every 20 paragraphs)?
Xalan extentions?
just from the top of my head...
--
Stefano Mazzocchi One must still have chaos in oneself to be
able to give birth to a dancing star.
<st...@apache.org> Friedrich Nietzsche
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Missed us in Orlando? Make it up with ApacheCON Europe in London!
------------------------- http://ApacheCon.Com ---------------------
Re: building C2 documentation
Posted by Stefano Mazzocchi <st...@apache.org>.
Conny Krappatsch wrote:
>
> A view days ago I asked for help in building C2 documentation. As nobody
> seemed to have the same problem :-| and nobody answered :-( I started
> investigated myself.
> I could fix the problem by changing the classpath in 'build.sh'. A cvs diff of
> my changes is attached.
Thanks, I'll apply the patch right away (BTW, I'm working on replacing
stylebook so this is why I don't build the docs with that... but in the
meanwhile this patch doesn't hurt even if it's going away in the future)
--
Stefano Mazzocchi One must still have chaos in oneself to be
able to give birth to a dancing star.
<st...@apache.org> Friedrich Nietzsche
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Missed us in Orlando? Make it up with ApacheCON Europe in London!
------------------------- http://ApacheCon.Com ---------------------
Re: building C2 documentation
Posted by Conny Krappatsch <co...@smb-tec.com>.
A view days ago I asked for help in building C2 documentation. As nobody
seemed to have the same problem :-| and nobody answered :-( I started
investigated myself.
I could fix the problem by changing the classpath in 'build.sh'. A cvs diff of
my changes is attached.
Conny
--
_____________________________________________________________________
Conny Krappatsch mailto:conny@smb-tec.com
SMB GmbH http://www.smb-tec.com
building C2 documentation
Posted by Conny Krappatsch <co...@smb-tec.com>.
After a long time working with Cocoon 1 I (again) decided to check out latest
Cocoon 2. (I'm curious about the sitemap stuff.)
My problem is, I can't build the docs ('build.sh docs'). I get the stylebook
exception:
org.apache.stylebook.InitializationException: Cannot parse configurations "res:/org/apache/stylebook/data/engine.xml"
The requested file is in the stylebook package and looks valid. (I checked
this.) Do I overlook something?
Would be nice if somebody could put me in the right direction.
Conny
--
_____________________________________________________________________
Conny Krappatsch mailto:conny@smb-tec.com
SMB GmbH http://www.smb-tec.com
Re: C2 documentation
Posted by Stefano Mazzocchi <st...@apache.org>.
Hans Ulrich Niedermann wrote:
>
> Stefano Mazzocchi <st...@apache.org> writes:
>
> > Hans Ulrich Niedermann wrote:
>
> [ C2 will generate its own documentation ]
>
> > > How will this work btw?
> >
> > eh, eh, different from what you'd expect, trust me, but once you get it,
> > it will blow you out of this planet... and I mean it.
> >
> > I'll write some architectural docs explaining what to do... and what not
> > to do.
>
> Then I'll stop doing anything about C2 docs until your explanations
> and revelations are available. :-)
>
> > > We were talking about migrating our docs to
> > > Docbook in the future but Docbook XSL stylesheets won't generate the
> > > Stylebook xml.apache.org look & feel without major additions.
> >
> > Hmmm, can you elaborate more on this?
>
> Well, Norm's stylesheets won't generate images at all, much less all
> the fancy images necessary for the xml.apache.org layout. Not that I
> particularly like this layout, but if we want to keep it, we'll have
> to create a lot of stuff around and besides Norm's stylesheets.
Oh, yeah, I'm totally aware of this.
> > > And I
> > > don't have any idea of how to integrate Document DTD, Stylebook
> > > generated pages smoothly with Docbook DTD, Docbook XSL generated
> > > pages.
> >
> > No, that won't happen, we have to get rid of DocumentDTD-based
> > stylesheets... everything should pass thru Docbook before being styled.
>
> OK, so we will use
>
> a) "filter stylesheets"
> These filter documentation tags (which contain valid Docbook XML)
> out of taglibs, sitemaps and all other XML file whose main purpose
> also is not being documentation.
right, you could start working on this even now, separation of concerns
DOES work!
> b) "structural reference stylesheets"
> These get information out of XML config files, XSchema definition
> files and other non-document XML files and mark these up as a
> reference. One example would be creation of a reference sheet for
> the sitemap XSchema that summarizes which elements may have which
> attributes and child elements.
Ditto.
> c) document2docbook.html
> Converts old docs into docbook. Intermediate solution. Purpose is
> not having to migrate all docs to Docbook immediately.
Right, and increase document contributions (telling people "you have to
use Docbook" may be scary sometimes)
> which all output valid Docbook XML. This Docbook based stuff will then
> somehow be converted into web site, HTML docs, PDF docs etc. using the
> ingenious "blowing-you-off-the-planet" C2 doc creation method.
Exactly
> Perhaps a) and b) may be combined for the documentation of certain
> subsystems.
I agree... well, up to you, the architecture is totally schema/content
agnostic.
> > > Perhaps one way to do it is to write Docbook <book>s and generate
> > > convenient HTML pages via several XIncludes and stuff. This would
> > > allow for printable docs as well as really fancy HTML pages with
> > > common navigation bars and looks etc. This would of course require
> > > some major additions to the HTML Docbook XSL stylesheets.
> >
> > No, we should write our own Docbook XSL stylesheets.
>
> Why is that? To better adapt to C2's abilities with views and stuff?
no, no, nothing like that: views change the way you think and connect
stuff but your documents remain the same.
> Or to improve performance by replacing all those
> loops-turned-recursive-functions in Norm's XSL stylesheets by "proper"
> programming logic?
I honestly don't know Norm's stylesheets well enough to tell you about
this.
> > This is great, I'll let you know when the stuff is ready to play with
> > and what to do.
>
> OK.
>
> First order of business will be to convince C2 to do more than throw a
> java.lang.VerifyError on every request, though. :-)
cvs checkout jakarta-tomcat-4.0
cd jakarta-tomcat-4.0
./build.sh
cd ..
cvs checkout -r xml-cocoon2 xml-cocoon
cd xml-cocoon2
./build.sh -Dinstall.war=../build/tomcat-4.0/webapps/
-Dinclude.webapp.libs=yes install
cd ../build/tomcat-4.0/
./bin/startup.sh
netscape http://127.0.0.1:8080/cocoon/
and see C2 in action in Catalina in its whole magnificence :)
--
Stefano Mazzocchi One must still have chaos in oneself to be
able to give birth to a dancing star.
<st...@apache.org> Friedrich Nietzsche
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Missed us in Orlando? Make it up with ApacheCON Europe in London!
------------------------- http://ApacheCon.Com ---------------------
Re: C2 documentation
Posted by Hans Ulrich Niedermann <ni...@isd.uni-stuttgart.de>.
Stefano Mazzocchi <st...@apache.org> writes:
> Hans Ulrich Niedermann wrote:
[ C2 will generate its own documentation ]
> > How will this work btw?
>
> eh, eh, different from what you'd expect, trust me, but once you get it,
> it will blow you out of this planet... and I mean it.
>
> I'll write some architectural docs explaining what to do... and what not
> to do.
Then I'll stop doing anything about C2 docs until your explanations
and revelations are available. :-)
> > We were talking about migrating our docs to
> > Docbook in the future but Docbook XSL stylesheets won't generate the
> > Stylebook xml.apache.org look & feel without major additions.
>
> Hmmm, can you elaborate more on this?
Well, Norm's stylesheets won't generate images at all, much less all
the fancy images necessary for the xml.apache.org layout. Not that I
particularly like this layout, but if we want to keep it, we'll have
to create a lot of stuff around and besides Norm's stylesheets.
> > And I
> > don't have any idea of how to integrate Document DTD, Stylebook
> > generated pages smoothly with Docbook DTD, Docbook XSL generated
> > pages.
>
> No, that won't happen, we have to get rid of DocumentDTD-based
> stylesheets... everything should pass thru Docbook before being styled.
OK, so we will use
a) "filter stylesheets"
These filter documentation tags (which contain valid Docbook XML)
out of taglibs, sitemaps and all other XML file whose main purpose
also is not being documentation.
b) "structural reference stylesheets"
These get information out of XML config files, XSchema definition
files and other non-document XML files and mark these up as a
reference. One example would be creation of a reference sheet for
the sitemap XSchema that summarizes which elements may have which
attributes and child elements.
c) document2docbook.html
Converts old docs into docbook. Intermediate solution. Purpose is
not having to migrate all docs to Docbook immediately.
which all output valid Docbook XML. This Docbook based stuff will then
somehow be converted into web site, HTML docs, PDF docs etc. using the
ingenious "blowing-you-off-the-planet" C2 doc creation method.
Perhaps a) and b) may be combined for the documentation of certain
subsystems.
> > Perhaps one way to do it is to write Docbook <book>s and generate
> > convenient HTML pages via several XIncludes and stuff. This would
> > allow for printable docs as well as really fancy HTML pages with
> > common navigation bars and looks etc. This would of course require
> > some major additions to the HTML Docbook XSL stylesheets.
>
> No, we should write our own Docbook XSL stylesheets.
Why is that? To better adapt to C2's abilities with views and stuff?
Or to improve performance by replacing all those
loops-turned-recursive-functions in Norm's XSL stylesheets by "proper"
programming logic?
> This is great, I'll let you know when the stuff is ready to play with
> and what to do.
OK.
First order of business will be to convince C2 to do more than throw a
java.lang.VerifyError on every request, though. :-)
Uli
Re: C2 documentation (was: [C1] The new FAQs...)
Posted by Stefano Mazzocchi <st...@apache.org>.
Hans Ulrich Niedermann wrote:
>
> Stefano Mazzocchi <st...@apache.org> writes:
>
> > C2 will generate it's own documentation, I've been stopped by the
> > compiler classpath shit for a while but I plan to have something ready
> > to show soon.
>
> How will this work btw?
eh, eh, different from what you'd expect, trust me, but once you get it,
it will blow you out of this planet... and I mean it.
I'll write some architectural docs explaining what to do... and what not
to do.
> We were talking about migrating our docs to
> Docbook in the future but Docbook XSL stylesheets won't generate the
> Stylebook xml.apache.org look & feel without major additions.
Hmmm, can you elaborate more on this?
> And I
> don't have any idea of how to integrate Document DTD, Stylebook
> generated pages smoothly with Docbook DTD, Docbook XSL generated
> pages.
No, that won't happen, we have to get rid of DocumentDTD-based
stylesheets... everything should pass thru Docbook before being styled.
> Perhaps one way to do it is to write Docbook <book>s and generate
> convenient HTML pages via several XIncludes and stuff. This would
> allow for printable docs as well as really fancy HTML pages with
> common navigation bars and looks etc. This would of course require
> some major additions to the HTML Docbook XSL stylesheets.
No, we should write our own Docbook XSL stylesheets.
> Talking about printable documentation: FOP still has some problems
> with whitespace handling, i.e. line breaks in program listings are
> ignored completely. The FO Docbook XSL stylesheets seem to be mostly
> OK for our purposes (still some minor flaws that can and will be
> fixed). I haven't tried other FO->PDF converters yet, though.
>
> BTW, I have converted xdocs/sitemap.xml to Docbook using my
> document2docbook.xsl stylesheet and some manual improvements. Docbook
> XML and the HTML, XSL:FO and FOP-generated PDF are available from
> <URL:http://n-dimensional.de/cocoon/docbook-test/> if you're
> interested in this.
Uh, cool.
> And last but not least, I think it may be preferrable to use
> Docbook generating stylesheets instead of HTML generating stylesheets
> for automatic doc creation out of taglibs, the sitemap, etc.
Totally agreed.
> My last exam of this year is scheduled for Thursday week and I plan to
> spend some days on creating stylesheets and converting stuff to
> Docbook after that.
This is great, I'll let you know when the stuff is ready to play with
and what to do.
--
Stefano Mazzocchi One must still have chaos in oneself to be
able to give birth to a dancing star.
<st...@apache.org> Friedrich Nietzsche
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Missed us in Orlando? Make it up with ApacheCON Europe in London!
------------------------- http://ApacheCon.Com ---------------------
Re: C2 documentation (was: [C1] The new FAQs...)
Posted by Nicola Ken Barozzi <ni...@supereva.it>.
From: "Ross Burton" <ro...@mail.com>
> Hans Ulrich Niedermann wrote:
>
> > How will this work btw? We were talking about migrating our docs to
> > Docbook in the future but Docbook XSL stylesheets won't generate the
> > Stylebook xml.apache.org look & feel without major additions. And I
> > don't have any idea of how to integrate Document DTD, Stylebook
> > generated pages smoothly with Docbook DTD, Docbook XSL generated
> > pages.
>
> I'm +1 on using some form of DocBook for the documentation, using a
> non-standard DTD when a standard one exists is silly. However, DocBook
> is rather complex but I have heard of the Simple Docbook DTD - how
> "simple" is this, or should we create a custom Docbook DTD like the
> Simple DTD.
>
> Ross, contemplating buying the O'Really Docbook guide
>
Javahelp format is quite easy and kindof standard...
But I would see it more as an opportunity for online help... a help-view.
Maybe DOCboock->Javahelp and backwards?
nicola_ken
Re: C2 documentation
Posted by Hans Ulrich Niedermann <ni...@isd.uni-stuttgart.de>.
Stefano Mazzocchi <st...@apache.org> writes:
> Ross Burton wrote:
> > I'm +1 on using some form of DocBook for the documentation, using a
> > non-standard DTD when a standard one exists is silly. However, DocBook
> > is rather complex but I have heard of the Simple Docbook DTD - how
> > "simple" is this, or should we create a custom Docbook DTD like the
> > Simple DTD.
>
> Agreed, but I want to leave the ability for people to write things using
> our simple DTD, so I'll write an adapting XSLT stylesheet (whenever
> possible..) but I have code to write now...
My basic document2docbook.xsl stylesheet is available from
<URL:http://n-dimensional.de/cocoon/docbook-test/>. It is able to
convert xdocs/sitemap.xml preserving all meta information of the
source markup. Just in case it helps.
Uli
Re: C2 documentation (was: [C1] The new FAQs...)
Posted by Stefano Mazzocchi <st...@apache.org>.
Ross Burton wrote:
>
> Hans Ulrich Niedermann wrote:
>
> > How will this work btw? We were talking about migrating our docs to
> > Docbook in the future but Docbook XSL stylesheets won't generate the
> > Stylebook xml.apache.org look & feel without major additions. And I
> > don't have any idea of how to integrate Document DTD, Stylebook
> > generated pages smoothly with Docbook DTD, Docbook XSL generated
> > pages.
>
> I'm +1 on using some form of DocBook for the documentation, using a
> non-standard DTD when a standard one exists is silly. However, DocBook
> is rather complex but I have heard of the Simple Docbook DTD - how
> "simple" is this, or should we create a custom Docbook DTD like the
> Simple DTD.
Agreed, but I want to leave the ability for people to write things using
our simple DTD, so I'll write an adapting XSLT stylesheet (whenever
possible..) but I have code to write now...
> Ross, contemplating buying the O'Really Docbook guide
look at www.docbook.org it's there for free.
--
Stefano Mazzocchi One must still have chaos in oneself to be
able to give birth to a dancing star.
<st...@apache.org> Friedrich Nietzsche
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Missed us in Orlando? Make it up with ApacheCON Europe in London!
------------------------- http://ApacheCon.Com ---------------------
Re: C2 documentation (was: [C1] The new FAQs...)
Posted by Ross Burton <ro...@mail.com>.
Hans Ulrich Niedermann wrote:
> How will this work btw? We were talking about migrating our docs to
> Docbook in the future but Docbook XSL stylesheets won't generate the
> Stylebook xml.apache.org look & feel without major additions. And I
> don't have any idea of how to integrate Document DTD, Stylebook
> generated pages smoothly with Docbook DTD, Docbook XSL generated
> pages.
I'm +1 on using some form of DocBook for the documentation, using a
non-standard DTD when a standard one exists is silly. However, DocBook
is rather complex but I have heard of the Simple Docbook DTD - how
"simple" is this, or should we create a custom Docbook DTD like the
Simple DTD.
Ross, contemplating buying the O'Really Docbook guide
C2 documentation (was: [C1] The new FAQs...)
Posted by Hans Ulrich Niedermann <ni...@isd.uni-stuttgart.de>.
Stefano Mazzocchi <st...@apache.org> writes:
> C2 will generate it's own documentation, I've been stopped by the
> compiler classpath shit for a while but I plan to have something ready
> to show soon.
How will this work btw? We were talking about migrating our docs to
Docbook in the future but Docbook XSL stylesheets won't generate the
Stylebook xml.apache.org look & feel without major additions. And I
don't have any idea of how to integrate Document DTD, Stylebook
generated pages smoothly with Docbook DTD, Docbook XSL generated
pages.
Perhaps one way to do it is to write Docbook <book>s and generate
convenient HTML pages via several XIncludes and stuff. This would
allow for printable docs as well as really fancy HTML pages with
common navigation bars and looks etc. This would of course require
some major additions to the HTML Docbook XSL stylesheets.
Talking about printable documentation: FOP still has some problems
with whitespace handling, i.e. line breaks in program listings are
ignored completely. The FO Docbook XSL stylesheets seem to be mostly
OK for our purposes (still some minor flaws that can and will be
fixed). I haven't tried other FO->PDF converters yet, though.
BTW, I have converted xdocs/sitemap.xml to Docbook using my
document2docbook.xsl stylesheet and some manual improvements. Docbook
XML and the HTML, XSL:FO and FOP-generated PDF are available from
<URL:http://n-dimensional.de/cocoon/docbook-test/> if you're
interested in this.
And last but not least, I think it may be preferrable to use
Docbook generating stylesheets instead of HTML generating stylesheets
for automatic doc creation out of taglibs, the sitemap, etc.
My last exam of this year is scheduled for Thursday week and I plan to
spend some days on creating stylesheets and converting stuff to
Docbook after that.
Uli
Re: [C1] The new FAQs...
Posted by Stefano Mazzocchi <st...@apache.org>.
Zvi wrote:
>
> Stefano,
>
> SplittingSerializer will be very usefull for WAP too!
Yes, yes, totally, but I think it should be more WAP specific...
(counting encoded bytes, instead of reacting on attribute namespaces)
My idea of a split serializer was a more general stuff and I doubt it's
useful for WAP as I described it.
But please, if you have better ideas, let me know right away... I'm
totally aware of the fact that Cocoon has great limits in WAP publishing
due to this. (along with all the rest of the WAP servers that I know,
BTW).
--
Stefano Mazzocchi One must still have chaos in oneself to be
able to give birth to a dancing star.
<st...@apache.org> Friedrich Nietzsche
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Missed us in Orlando? Make it up with ApacheCON Europe in London!
------------------------- http://ApacheCon.Com ---------------------
Re: [C1] The new FAQs...
Posted by Zvi <th...@ifrance.com>.
Stefano,
SplittingSerializer will be very usefull for WAP too!
Zvi
Stefano Mazzocchi wrote:
> Nicola Ken Barozzi wrote:
> >
> > From: "Stefano Mazzocchi" <st...@apache.org>
> > > Robin Green wrote:
> > > >
> > > > ...are not ready as promised yet, sorry. They won't build yet due to a bug
> > > > in the change in the xsl and dtd to allow FAQ sections. Maybe Sunday or
> > > > Monday... (okay, it is Sunday, I know.)
> > > >
> > > > Question: Assuming I was crazy enough to want to do this, how would I go
> > > > about implementing automatic page splitting with Stylebook (e.g. new HTML
> > > > page in the FAQ every 20 paragraphs)?
> > >
> > > Xalan extentions?
> > >
> > > just from the top of my head...
> >
> > Hmmm... didn't we talk about removing Xalan dependencies from Cocoon?
>
> Yes, but there is no other way in Stylebook. (besides, Xalan
> dependencies should be removed from C2, here we're talking about C1)
>
> C2 will generate it's own documentation, I've been stopped by the
> compiler classpath shit for a while but I plan to have something ready
> to show soon.
>
> For C2 "Command Line Edition" :) you can have a SplittingSerializer that
> does that and forget about XSLT extentions (which are not portable
> across implementations), but for now... no way.
>
> --
> Stefano Mazzocchi One must still have chaos in oneself to be
> able to give birth to a dancing star.
> <st...@apache.org> Friedrich Nietzsche
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
> Missed us in Orlando? Make it up with ApacheCON Europe in London!
> ------------------------- http://ApacheCon.Com ---------------------
Re: [C1] The new FAQs...
Posted by Stefano Mazzocchi <st...@apache.org>.
Nicola Ken Barozzi wrote:
>
> From: "Stefano Mazzocchi" <st...@apache.org>
> > Robin Green wrote:
> > >
> > > ...are not ready as promised yet, sorry. They won't build yet due to a bug
> > > in the change in the xsl and dtd to allow FAQ sections. Maybe Sunday or
> > > Monday... (okay, it is Sunday, I know.)
> > >
> > > Question: Assuming I was crazy enough to want to do this, how would I go
> > > about implementing automatic page splitting with Stylebook (e.g. new HTML
> > > page in the FAQ every 20 paragraphs)?
> >
> > Xalan extentions?
> >
> > just from the top of my head...
>
> Hmmm... didn't we talk about removing Xalan dependencies from Cocoon?
Yes, but there is no other way in Stylebook. (besides, Xalan
dependencies should be removed from C2, here we're talking about C1)
C2 will generate it's own documentation, I've been stopped by the
compiler classpath shit for a while but I plan to have something ready
to show soon.
For C2 "Command Line Edition" :) you can have a SplittingSerializer that
does that and forget about XSLT extentions (which are not portable
across implementations), but for now... no way.
--
Stefano Mazzocchi One must still have chaos in oneself to be
able to give birth to a dancing star.
<st...@apache.org> Friedrich Nietzsche
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Missed us in Orlando? Make it up with ApacheCON Europe in London!
------------------------- http://ApacheCon.Com ---------------------
Re: [C1] The new FAQs...
Posted by Nicola Ken Barozzi <ni...@supereva.it>.
From: "Stefano Mazzocchi" <st...@apache.org>
> Robin Green wrote:
> >
> > ...are not ready as promised yet, sorry. They won't build yet due to a bug
> > in the change in the xsl and dtd to allow FAQ sections. Maybe Sunday or
> > Monday... (okay, it is Sunday, I know.)
> >
> > Question: Assuming I was crazy enough to want to do this, how would I go
> > about implementing automatic page splitting with Stylebook (e.g. new HTML
> > page in the FAQ every 20 paragraphs)?
>
> Xalan extentions?
>
> just from the top of my head...
Hmmm... didn't we talk about removing Xalan dependencies from Cocoon?
nicola_ken