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Posted to user@ode.apache.org by Ivan Trajkovic <iv...@gmail.com> on 2008/08/01 02:33:51 UTC
newbie integration layer question
hello everyone
Im pretty intrigued about ODE's capabilities, and would like to start
integrating it into my new system.
I was wondering if there was a place where I could read up more about how to
go about integrating my classes into the Integration Layer so to have those
functions available as services from within my BPEL processes. I would
prefer this approach to avoid slowdowns/inefficiencies due to SOAP
parsing/transmission. The classes are written in Scala, but this is a
non-issue since it all compiles down to JVM bytecode and looks the same to
ODE at runtime.
Im still not sure how well this would scale, and Im assuming that it would
pretty much mean that I would have to make my class methods
re-entrant/stateless.
I've looked at the Javadocs but this is a pretty harsh way to start from
scratch when there's no clue about what are the primary things to get
familiar with.
thank you for your help, its very much appreciated.
Re: newbie integration layer question
Posted by Matthieu Riou <ma...@offthelip.org>.
On Thu, Jul 31, 2008 at 7:20 PM, Ivan Trajkovic <iv...@gmail.com>wrote:
> thanks guys, I'll look into it
> just to check, the IL allows me to expose POJO's directly to the workflows
> so that I can orchestrate them knowing that no SOAP exchanges will happen?
> that is my goal, to know that the worfklow is executed in-process without
> OS
> calls for networking (there's a possibility that thats a dump statement
> since WSDL is used to define services and there might not be any option to
> have methods exposed "by default" without WSDL's being required).
Correct, their won't be any SOAP envelope creation nor remote calls. If you
put yourself as the IL level, you will be in the same space as the ODE
server. That being said, you'll still have to put up with WSDL as it's our
native interface definition language for the processes.
> I
> understand that its a basic question, but I just want to make sure. I just
> realized that IL might be API's for providing core internal services to the
> ODE engine that are needed for its internal functioning, and not exposed to
> third-party processes...
Yeah so that's a bit awkward right now. The IL provides several services to
the server: instantiation and lifecycle management, messaging layer and
process store. Right now only the process store is a reusable component but
if you're just interested in plugging in your own messaging layer (with
POJOs in your case) you still have to deal with instantiation and lifecycle.
We plan to implement an easily embeddable server in the future that will
alleviate this issue, leaving you with only the process-to-service
communication to deal with. But it's not done yet (even though you can
easily copy/paste from existing implementations).
Matthieu
> thank you for the prompt responses and for somewhat confusing set of
> questions
>
> Ivan
>
> On Thu, Jul 31, 2008 at 10:11 PM, Matthieu Riou <matthieu@offthelip.org
> >wrote:
>
> > On Thu, Jul 31, 2008 at 6:51 PM, Alex Boisvert <bo...@intalio.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Hi Ivan,
> > >
> > > A good place to start, if you haven't looked yet, is to browse the
> > > Integration Layer API,
> > >
> > >
> >
> http://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/ode/branches/APACHE_ODE_1.X/bpel-api/src/main/java/org/apache/ode/bpel/iapi/
> > >
> > > or in the trunk where we've made some refactoring for better
> transaction
> > > and
> > > reliable messaging suppport,
> > >
> > >
> >
> http://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/ode/trunk/bpel-api/src/main/java/org/apache/ode/bpel/iapi/
> > >
> > > You'll find all the interfaces for the IL as well as interfaces the
> > engine
> > > exposes to the outside world.
> > >
> > > You can also take a look at the existing implementations (Axis2 and
> JBI)
> > to
> > > get a better understanding and starting for the implementation, since
> > > there
> > > are usually (some) pieces that can be reused across ILs.
> > >
> >
> > To complement the list, there's also an IL for ODE in Tuscany:
> >
> >
> >
> http://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/tuscany/java/sca/modules/implementation-bpel-ode/src/main/java/org/apache/tuscany/sca/implementation/bpel/ode/
> >
> > The EmbeddedODEServer is a good starting point as it wires up the strict
> > minimum resources necessary for ODE to run.
> >
> > Matthieu
> >
> >
> > >
> > > Ask questions if you need help...
> > >
> > > alex
> > >
> > > On Thu, Jul 31, 2008 at 5:33 PM, Ivan Trajkovic <ivan.itsoft@gmail.com
> > > >wrote:
> > >
> > > > hello everyone
> > > > Im pretty intrigued about ODE's capabilities, and would like to start
> > > > integrating it into my new system.
> > > > I was wondering if there was a place where I could read up more about
> > how
> > > > to
> > > > go about integrating my classes into the Integration Layer so to have
> > > those
> > > > functions available as services from within my BPEL processes. I
> would
> > > > prefer this approach to avoid slowdowns/inefficiencies due to SOAP
> > > > parsing/transmission. The classes are written in Scala, but this is a
> > > > non-issue since it all compiles down to JVM bytecode and looks the
> same
> > > to
> > > > ODE at runtime.
> > > > Im still not sure how well this would scale, and Im assuming that it
> > > would
> > > > pretty much mean that I would have to make my class methods
> > > > re-entrant/stateless.
> > > > I've looked at the Javadocs but this is a pretty harsh way to start
> > from
> > > > scratch when there's no clue about what are the primary things to get
> > > > familiar with.
> > > >
> > > > thank you for your help, its very much appreciated.
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
Re: newbie integration layer question
Posted by Ivan Trajkovic <iv...@gmail.com>.
really glad you replied, I thought I was being ignored for being to
adventurous in my thinking...
in general I think that having something like BPEL in a system is a great
thing, with all the theory behind workflows, but Im trying to imagine it in
the context of millions of hits, and really easy scaling...
with that said something made me think more and more about how
easy/difficult it would be to have the same semantics implemented in say
Erlang... I hope I didnt insult people here, but Erlang is nativelly
supporting some of the thigns that I see Jacob talking about. Its a really
neat/simple little language with a phenomenal VM that takes care of
scalability like a charm.
Im not enterprise house so sticking to BPEL as defined by the standards is
not something that is a must, its just the long running stuff that attracts
me, and the idea of having non-tech people design worfklows in BPMN...
Been reading about ProtoBuffers from Google too, and their concern with
performance is exactly what I have in mind as well...
In the process of writing a small Scala2WSDL tool, and thats almost done, so
I guess Im cool with WSDL ;), XPath is baked into the scala.xml package, so
Im cool with that too... Im blabbing here, Im sorry, but really minimizing
the amount of stuff thats in the runtime is what Im thinking about, and
coding something up in Erlang is seeming like a more and more of a good
idea... we'll see, I'll keep you posted.
ps. Im still going to research the IL further.
a wild thought - replicating the Jacob API in Erlang and then pluging that
into the rest of ODE?
thanks
On Mon, Aug 4, 2008 at 1:33 AM, Paul Brown <pa...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> On Aug 1, 2008, at 9:08 AM, Ivan Trajkovic wrote:
>
>> on a side note, it would be cool if the interface definition for the
>> processes was abstracted into its own layer, so that other IDL's (besides
>> WSDL) could be used (WADL, Google protocol buffers - although Im still not
>> that familiar with GPB's as they might be only a simple data message
>> definitonl language[perhaps can be hacked into definiting method
>> signatures
>> as well])... either way, it would seem powerful if ODE was capable to
>> accomodate other IDL's, its use would increase drastically... I understand
>> this probably a non-trivial amount of work.
>>
>
> Other IDLs is a big deal, depending on how you look at it, since the
> combination of XML, WSDL, and XPath (1.0 or 2.0) is deeply ingrained in the
> BPEL language. (File that under "it seemed like a good idea at the
> time"...) It's certainly conceivable that people would be interested in
> using something like Java for the IDL with POJOs, no IDL with
> JSON/Javascript, etc. The good thing about the WSDL/XML/XPath stack is that
> it's friendly with the philosophies of the engine and the design of BPEL,
> and it's purely a question of effort and inclination for someone to have a
> version of ODE that would support their chosen combination of IDL,
> expression language, and message format so long as the overall flavor of the
> implementation didn't change too much.
>
> Now, that said, some of this is purely a matter of the level of indirection
> in your thinking, and this is why the integration layer (IL) that Matthieu
> pointed you at is probably the right place to start. For the engine to use
> XML internally along with all of the usual trappings (WSDL, XSLT, XPath,
> etc.), you could feed it about anything — JSON, EDI of various flavors, a
> binary wire format, etc. — which would be dealt with as XML within the
> confines of the engine and converted to and from XML by the IL.
>
> Given that you seen to have a taste for the wind in your hair and bugs in
> your teeth (a good thing!), you should also take a look at the JaCOb actor
> layer that underlies the ODE BPEL implementation.
>
> -- Paul
Re: newbie integration layer question
Posted by Paul Brown <pa...@gmail.com>.
On Aug 1, 2008, at 9:08 AM, Ivan Trajkovic wrote:
> on a side note, it would be cool if the interface definition for the
> processes was abstracted into its own layer, so that other IDL's
> (besides
> WSDL) could be used (WADL, Google protocol buffers - although Im
> still not
> that familiar with GPB's as they might be only a simple data message
> definitonl language[perhaps can be hacked into definiting method
> signatures
> as well])... either way, it would seem powerful if ODE was capable to
> accomodate other IDL's, its use would increase drastically... I
> understand
> this probably a non-trivial amount of work.
Other IDLs is a big deal, depending on how you look at it, since the
combination of XML, WSDL, and XPath (1.0 or 2.0) is deeply ingrained
in the BPEL language. (File that under "it seemed like a good idea at
the time"...) It's certainly conceivable that people would be
interested in using something like Java for the IDL with POJOs, no IDL
with JSON/Javascript, etc. The good thing about the WSDL/XML/XPath
stack is that it's friendly with the philosophies of the engine and
the design of BPEL, and it's purely a question of effort and
inclination for someone to have a version of ODE that would support
their chosen combination of IDL, expression language, and message
format so long as the overall flavor of the implementation didn't
change too much.
Now, that said, some of this is purely a matter of the level of
indirection in your thinking, and this is why the integration layer
(IL) that Matthieu pointed you at is probably the right place to
start. For the engine to use XML internally along with all of the
usual trappings (WSDL, XSLT, XPath, etc.), you could feed it about
anything — JSON, EDI of various flavors, a binary wire format, etc. —
which would be dealt with as XML within the confines of the engine and
converted to and from XML by the IL.
Given that you seen to have a taste for the wind in your hair and bugs
in your teeth (a good thing!), you should also take a look at the
JaCOb actor layer that underlies the ODE BPEL implementation.
-- Paul
Re: newbie integration layer question
Posted by Ivan Trajkovic <iv...@gmail.com>.
on a side note, it would be cool if the interface definition for the
processes was abstracted into its own layer, so that other IDL's (besides
WSDL) could be used (WADL, Google protocol buffers - although Im still not
that familiar with GPB's as they might be only a simple data message
definitonl language[perhaps can be hacked into definiting method signatures
as well])... either way, it would seem powerful if ODE was capable to
accomodate other IDL's, its use would increase drastically... I understand
this probably a non-trivial amount of work.
On Fri, Aug 1, 2008 at 12:02 PM, Ivan Trajkovic <iv...@gmail.com>wrote:
> funny how Im sending cries out for help at the same time as the help is on
> its way ;)
> thanks. this gives me a lot more info to investigate, and reaffirms my
> decision to go forward with ODE.
> I have so many questions in my head buzzing right now, mostly to do with
> process-to-service
> communication... but Im betting the API signatures would answer some of
> them. org/apache/ode/bpel/iapi/<http://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/ode/branches/APACHE_ODE_1.X/bpel-api/src/main/java/org/apache/ode/bpel/iapi/>is still the best place to look for those?
> Im mainly concerned with efficiency and trying to avoid an unnecessary
> copying... but I should investigate more so I can ask more speicfic
> questions, before my messages turn into a whole bunch of super-high level
> questions that would take hours to answer.
>
> thanks :)
>
>
> On Fri, Aug 1, 2008 at 11:17 AM, Matthieu Riou <ma...@offthelip.org>wrote:
>
>> On Fri, Aug 1, 2008 at 8:09 AM, Ivan Trajkovic <ivan.itsoft@gmail.com
>> >wrote:
>>
>> > I understand that the questions here are probably way confused. I would
>> > really appreciate it if someone just quickly answered them so that I at
>> > least know which direction to move in. If I could read up on it
>> someplace I
>> > would, but I've been out of luck finding a clear source.
>> >
>>
>> Time difference. We're just waking up here :)
>>
>>
>> >
>> > thank you
>> > humble newbie
>> >
>> > On Thu, Jul 31, 2008 at 10:20 PM, Ivan Trajkovic <ivan.itsoft@gmail.com
>> > >wrote:
>> >
>> > > thanks guys, I'll look into it
>> > > just to check, the IL allows me to expose POJO's directly to the
>> > workflows
>> > > so that I can orchestrate them knowing that no SOAP exchanges will
>> > happen?
>> > > that is my goal, to know that the worfklow is executed in-process
>> without
>> > OS
>> > > calls for networking (there's a possibility that thats a dump
>> statement
>> > > since WSDL is used to define services and there might not be any
>> option
>> > to
>> > > have methods exposed "by default" without WSDL's being required). I
>> > > understand that its a basic question, but I just want to make sure. I
>> > just
>> > > realized that IL might be API's for providing core internal services
>> to
>> > the
>> > > ODE engine that are needed for its internal functioning, and not
>> exposed
>> > to
>> > > third-party processes...
>> > > thank you for the prompt responses and for somewhat confusing set of
>> > > questions
>> > >
>> > > Ivan
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > On Thu, Jul 31, 2008 at 10:11 PM, Matthieu Riou <
>> matthieu@offthelip.org
>> > >wrote:
>> > >
>> > >> On Thu, Jul 31, 2008 at 6:51 PM, Alex Boisvert <boisvert@intalio.com
>> >
>> > >> wrote:
>> > >>
>> > >> > Hi Ivan,
>> > >> >
>> > >> > A good place to start, if you haven't looked yet, is to browse the
>> > >> > Integration Layer API,
>> > >> >
>> > >> >
>> > >>
>> >
>> http://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/ode/branches/APACHE_ODE_1.X/bpel-api/src/main/java/org/apache/ode/bpel/iapi/
>> > >> >
>> > >> > or in the trunk where we've made some refactoring for better
>> > transaction
>> > >> > and
>> > >> > reliable messaging suppport,
>> > >> >
>> > >> >
>> > >>
>> >
>> http://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/ode/trunk/bpel-api/src/main/java/org/apache/ode/bpel/iapi/
>> > >> >
>> > >> > You'll find all the interfaces for the IL as well as interfaces the
>> > >> engine
>> > >> > exposes to the outside world.
>> > >> >
>> > >> > You can also take a look at the existing implementations (Axis2 and
>> > JBI)
>> > >> to
>> > >> > get a better understanding and starting for the implementation,
>> since
>> > >> > there
>> > >> > are usually (some) pieces that can be reused across ILs.
>> > >> >
>> > >>
>> > >> To complement the list, there's also an IL for ODE in Tuscany:
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> >
>> http://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/tuscany/java/sca/modules/implementation-bpel-ode/src/main/java/org/apache/tuscany/sca/implementation/bpel/ode/
>> > >>
>> > >> The EmbeddedODEServer is a good starting point as it wires up the
>> strict
>> > >> minimum resources necessary for ODE to run.
>> > >>
>> > >> Matthieu
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >> >
>> > >> > Ask questions if you need help...
>> > >> >
>> > >> > alex
>> > >> >
>> > >> > On Thu, Jul 31, 2008 at 5:33 PM, Ivan Trajkovic <
>> > ivan.itsoft@gmail.com
>> > >> > >wrote:
>> > >> >
>> > >> > > hello everyone
>> > >> > > Im pretty intrigued about ODE's capabilities, and would like to
>> > start
>> > >> > > integrating it into my new system.
>> > >> > > I was wondering if there was a place where I could read up more
>> > about
>> > >> how
>> > >> > > to
>> > >> > > go about integrating my classes into the Integration Layer so to
>> > have
>> > >> > those
>> > >> > > functions available as services from within my BPEL processes. I
>> > would
>> > >> > > prefer this approach to avoid slowdowns/inefficiencies due to
>> SOAP
>> > >> > > parsing/transmission. The classes are written in Scala, but this
>> is
>> > a
>> > >> > > non-issue since it all compiles down to JVM bytecode and looks
>> the
>> > >> same
>> > >> > to
>> > >> > > ODE at runtime.
>> > >> > > Im still not sure how well this would scale, and Im assuming that
>> it
>> > >> > would
>> > >> > > pretty much mean that I would have to make my class methods
>> > >> > > re-entrant/stateless.
>> > >> > > I've looked at the Javadocs but this is a pretty harsh way to
>> start
>> > >> from
>> > >> > > scratch when there's no clue about what are the primary things to
>> > get
>> > >> > > familiar with.
>> > >> > >
>> > >> > > thank you for your help, its very much appreciated.
>> > >> > >
>> > >> >
>> > >>
>> > >
>> > >
>> >
>>
>
>
Re: newbie integration layer question
Posted by Ivan Trajkovic <iv...@gmail.com>.
funny how Im sending cries out for help at the same time as the help is on
its way ;)
thanks. this gives me a lot more info to investigate, and reaffirms my
decision to go forward with ODE.
I have so many questions in my head buzzing right now, mostly to do with
process-to-service
communication... but Im betting the API signatures would answer some of
them. org/apache/ode/bpel/iapi/<http://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/ode/branches/APACHE_ODE_1.X/bpel-api/src/main/java/org/apache/ode/bpel/iapi/>is
still the best place to look for those?
Im mainly concerned with efficiency and trying to avoid an unnecessary
copying... but I should investigate more so I can ask more speicfic
questions, before my messages turn into a whole bunch of super-high level
questions that would take hours to answer.
thanks :)
On Fri, Aug 1, 2008 at 11:17 AM, Matthieu Riou <ma...@offthelip.org>wrote:
> On Fri, Aug 1, 2008 at 8:09 AM, Ivan Trajkovic <ivan.itsoft@gmail.com
> >wrote:
>
> > I understand that the questions here are probably way confused. I would
> > really appreciate it if someone just quickly answered them so that I at
> > least know which direction to move in. If I could read up on it someplace
> I
> > would, but I've been out of luck finding a clear source.
> >
>
> Time difference. We're just waking up here :)
>
>
> >
> > thank you
> > humble newbie
> >
> > On Thu, Jul 31, 2008 at 10:20 PM, Ivan Trajkovic <ivan.itsoft@gmail.com
> > >wrote:
> >
> > > thanks guys, I'll look into it
> > > just to check, the IL allows me to expose POJO's directly to the
> > workflows
> > > so that I can orchestrate them knowing that no SOAP exchanges will
> > happen?
> > > that is my goal, to know that the worfklow is executed in-process
> without
> > OS
> > > calls for networking (there's a possibility that thats a dump statement
> > > since WSDL is used to define services and there might not be any option
> > to
> > > have methods exposed "by default" without WSDL's being required). I
> > > understand that its a basic question, but I just want to make sure. I
> > just
> > > realized that IL might be API's for providing core internal services to
> > the
> > > ODE engine that are needed for its internal functioning, and not
> exposed
> > to
> > > third-party processes...
> > > thank you for the prompt responses and for somewhat confusing set of
> > > questions
> > >
> > > Ivan
> > >
> > >
> > > On Thu, Jul 31, 2008 at 10:11 PM, Matthieu Riou <
> matthieu@offthelip.org
> > >wrote:
> > >
> > >> On Thu, Jul 31, 2008 at 6:51 PM, Alex Boisvert <bo...@intalio.com>
> > >> wrote:
> > >>
> > >> > Hi Ivan,
> > >> >
> > >> > A good place to start, if you haven't looked yet, is to browse the
> > >> > Integration Layer API,
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >>
> >
> http://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/ode/branches/APACHE_ODE_1.X/bpel-api/src/main/java/org/apache/ode/bpel/iapi/
> > >> >
> > >> > or in the trunk where we've made some refactoring for better
> > transaction
> > >> > and
> > >> > reliable messaging suppport,
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >>
> >
> http://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/ode/trunk/bpel-api/src/main/java/org/apache/ode/bpel/iapi/
> > >> >
> > >> > You'll find all the interfaces for the IL as well as interfaces the
> > >> engine
> > >> > exposes to the outside world.
> > >> >
> > >> > You can also take a look at the existing implementations (Axis2 and
> > JBI)
> > >> to
> > >> > get a better understanding and starting for the implementation,
> since
> > >> > there
> > >> > are usually (some) pieces that can be reused across ILs.
> > >> >
> > >>
> > >> To complement the list, there's also an IL for ODE in Tuscany:
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> >
> http://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/tuscany/java/sca/modules/implementation-bpel-ode/src/main/java/org/apache/tuscany/sca/implementation/bpel/ode/
> > >>
> > >> The EmbeddedODEServer is a good starting point as it wires up the
> strict
> > >> minimum resources necessary for ODE to run.
> > >>
> > >> Matthieu
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> >
> > >> > Ask questions if you need help...
> > >> >
> > >> > alex
> > >> >
> > >> > On Thu, Jul 31, 2008 at 5:33 PM, Ivan Trajkovic <
> > ivan.itsoft@gmail.com
> > >> > >wrote:
> > >> >
> > >> > > hello everyone
> > >> > > Im pretty intrigued about ODE's capabilities, and would like to
> > start
> > >> > > integrating it into my new system.
> > >> > > I was wondering if there was a place where I could read up more
> > about
> > >> how
> > >> > > to
> > >> > > go about integrating my classes into the Integration Layer so to
> > have
> > >> > those
> > >> > > functions available as services from within my BPEL processes. I
> > would
> > >> > > prefer this approach to avoid slowdowns/inefficiencies due to SOAP
> > >> > > parsing/transmission. The classes are written in Scala, but this
> is
> > a
> > >> > > non-issue since it all compiles down to JVM bytecode and looks the
> > >> same
> > >> > to
> > >> > > ODE at runtime.
> > >> > > Im still not sure how well this would scale, and Im assuming that
> it
> > >> > would
> > >> > > pretty much mean that I would have to make my class methods
> > >> > > re-entrant/stateless.
> > >> > > I've looked at the Javadocs but this is a pretty harsh way to
> start
> > >> from
> > >> > > scratch when there's no clue about what are the primary things to
> > get
> > >> > > familiar with.
> > >> > >
> > >> > > thank you for your help, its very much appreciated.
> > >> > >
> > >> >
> > >>
> > >
> > >
> >
>
Re: newbie integration layer question
Posted by Matthieu Riou <ma...@offthelip.org>.
On Fri, Aug 1, 2008 at 8:09 AM, Ivan Trajkovic <iv...@gmail.com>wrote:
> I understand that the questions here are probably way confused. I would
> really appreciate it if someone just quickly answered them so that I at
> least know which direction to move in. If I could read up on it someplace I
> would, but I've been out of luck finding a clear source.
>
Time difference. We're just waking up here :)
>
> thank you
> humble newbie
>
> On Thu, Jul 31, 2008 at 10:20 PM, Ivan Trajkovic <ivan.itsoft@gmail.com
> >wrote:
>
> > thanks guys, I'll look into it
> > just to check, the IL allows me to expose POJO's directly to the
> workflows
> > so that I can orchestrate them knowing that no SOAP exchanges will
> happen?
> > that is my goal, to know that the worfklow is executed in-process without
> OS
> > calls for networking (there's a possibility that thats a dump statement
> > since WSDL is used to define services and there might not be any option
> to
> > have methods exposed "by default" without WSDL's being required). I
> > understand that its a basic question, but I just want to make sure. I
> just
> > realized that IL might be API's for providing core internal services to
> the
> > ODE engine that are needed for its internal functioning, and not exposed
> to
> > third-party processes...
> > thank you for the prompt responses and for somewhat confusing set of
> > questions
> >
> > Ivan
> >
> >
> > On Thu, Jul 31, 2008 at 10:11 PM, Matthieu Riou <matthieu@offthelip.org
> >wrote:
> >
> >> On Thu, Jul 31, 2008 at 6:51 PM, Alex Boisvert <bo...@intalio.com>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >> > Hi Ivan,
> >> >
> >> > A good place to start, if you haven't looked yet, is to browse the
> >> > Integration Layer API,
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
> http://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/ode/branches/APACHE_ODE_1.X/bpel-api/src/main/java/org/apache/ode/bpel/iapi/
> >> >
> >> > or in the trunk where we've made some refactoring for better
> transaction
> >> > and
> >> > reliable messaging suppport,
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
> http://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/ode/trunk/bpel-api/src/main/java/org/apache/ode/bpel/iapi/
> >> >
> >> > You'll find all the interfaces for the IL as well as interfaces the
> >> engine
> >> > exposes to the outside world.
> >> >
> >> > You can also take a look at the existing implementations (Axis2 and
> JBI)
> >> to
> >> > get a better understanding and starting for the implementation, since
> >> > there
> >> > are usually (some) pieces that can be reused across ILs.
> >> >
> >>
> >> To complement the list, there's also an IL for ODE in Tuscany:
> >>
> >>
> >>
> http://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/tuscany/java/sca/modules/implementation-bpel-ode/src/main/java/org/apache/tuscany/sca/implementation/bpel/ode/
> >>
> >> The EmbeddedODEServer is a good starting point as it wires up the strict
> >> minimum resources necessary for ODE to run.
> >>
> >> Matthieu
> >>
> >>
> >> >
> >> > Ask questions if you need help...
> >> >
> >> > alex
> >> >
> >> > On Thu, Jul 31, 2008 at 5:33 PM, Ivan Trajkovic <
> ivan.itsoft@gmail.com
> >> > >wrote:
> >> >
> >> > > hello everyone
> >> > > Im pretty intrigued about ODE's capabilities, and would like to
> start
> >> > > integrating it into my new system.
> >> > > I was wondering if there was a place where I could read up more
> about
> >> how
> >> > > to
> >> > > go about integrating my classes into the Integration Layer so to
> have
> >> > those
> >> > > functions available as services from within my BPEL processes. I
> would
> >> > > prefer this approach to avoid slowdowns/inefficiencies due to SOAP
> >> > > parsing/transmission. The classes are written in Scala, but this is
> a
> >> > > non-issue since it all compiles down to JVM bytecode and looks the
> >> same
> >> > to
> >> > > ODE at runtime.
> >> > > Im still not sure how well this would scale, and Im assuming that it
> >> > would
> >> > > pretty much mean that I would have to make my class methods
> >> > > re-entrant/stateless.
> >> > > I've looked at the Javadocs but this is a pretty harsh way to start
> >> from
> >> > > scratch when there's no clue about what are the primary things to
> get
> >> > > familiar with.
> >> > >
> >> > > thank you for your help, its very much appreciated.
> >> > >
> >> >
> >>
> >
> >
>
Re: newbie integration layer question
Posted by Ivan Trajkovic <iv...@gmail.com>.
I understand that the questions here are probably way confused. I would
really appreciate it if someone just quickly answered them so that I at
least know which direction to move in. If I could read up on it someplace I
would, but I've been out of luck finding a clear source.
thank you
humble newbie
On Thu, Jul 31, 2008 at 10:20 PM, Ivan Trajkovic <iv...@gmail.com>wrote:
> thanks guys, I'll look into it
> just to check, the IL allows me to expose POJO's directly to the workflows
> so that I can orchestrate them knowing that no SOAP exchanges will happen?
> that is my goal, to know that the worfklow is executed in-process without OS
> calls for networking (there's a possibility that thats a dump statement
> since WSDL is used to define services and there might not be any option to
> have methods exposed "by default" without WSDL's being required). I
> understand that its a basic question, but I just want to make sure. I just
> realized that IL might be API's for providing core internal services to the
> ODE engine that are needed for its internal functioning, and not exposed to
> third-party processes...
> thank you for the prompt responses and for somewhat confusing set of
> questions
>
> Ivan
>
>
> On Thu, Jul 31, 2008 at 10:11 PM, Matthieu Riou <ma...@offthelip.org>wrote:
>
>> On Thu, Jul 31, 2008 at 6:51 PM, Alex Boisvert <bo...@intalio.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> > Hi Ivan,
>> >
>> > A good place to start, if you haven't looked yet, is to browse the
>> > Integration Layer API,
>> >
>> >
>> http://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/ode/branches/APACHE_ODE_1.X/bpel-api/src/main/java/org/apache/ode/bpel/iapi/
>> >
>> > or in the trunk where we've made some refactoring for better transaction
>> > and
>> > reliable messaging suppport,
>> >
>> >
>> http://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/ode/trunk/bpel-api/src/main/java/org/apache/ode/bpel/iapi/
>> >
>> > You'll find all the interfaces for the IL as well as interfaces the
>> engine
>> > exposes to the outside world.
>> >
>> > You can also take a look at the existing implementations (Axis2 and JBI)
>> to
>> > get a better understanding and starting for the implementation, since
>> > there
>> > are usually (some) pieces that can be reused across ILs.
>> >
>>
>> To complement the list, there's also an IL for ODE in Tuscany:
>>
>>
>> http://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/tuscany/java/sca/modules/implementation-bpel-ode/src/main/java/org/apache/tuscany/sca/implementation/bpel/ode/
>>
>> The EmbeddedODEServer is a good starting point as it wires up the strict
>> minimum resources necessary for ODE to run.
>>
>> Matthieu
>>
>>
>> >
>> > Ask questions if you need help...
>> >
>> > alex
>> >
>> > On Thu, Jul 31, 2008 at 5:33 PM, Ivan Trajkovic <ivan.itsoft@gmail.com
>> > >wrote:
>> >
>> > > hello everyone
>> > > Im pretty intrigued about ODE's capabilities, and would like to start
>> > > integrating it into my new system.
>> > > I was wondering if there was a place where I could read up more about
>> how
>> > > to
>> > > go about integrating my classes into the Integration Layer so to have
>> > those
>> > > functions available as services from within my BPEL processes. I would
>> > > prefer this approach to avoid slowdowns/inefficiencies due to SOAP
>> > > parsing/transmission. The classes are written in Scala, but this is a
>> > > non-issue since it all compiles down to JVM bytecode and looks the
>> same
>> > to
>> > > ODE at runtime.
>> > > Im still not sure how well this would scale, and Im assuming that it
>> > would
>> > > pretty much mean that I would have to make my class methods
>> > > re-entrant/stateless.
>> > > I've looked at the Javadocs but this is a pretty harsh way to start
>> from
>> > > scratch when there's no clue about what are the primary things to get
>> > > familiar with.
>> > >
>> > > thank you for your help, its very much appreciated.
>> > >
>> >
>>
>
>
Re: newbie integration layer question
Posted by Ivan Trajkovic <iv...@gmail.com>.
thanks guys, I'll look into it
just to check, the IL allows me to expose POJO's directly to the workflows
so that I can orchestrate them knowing that no SOAP exchanges will happen?
that is my goal, to know that the worfklow is executed in-process without OS
calls for networking (there's a possibility that thats a dump statement
since WSDL is used to define services and there might not be any option to
have methods exposed "by default" without WSDL's being required). I
understand that its a basic question, but I just want to make sure. I just
realized that IL might be API's for providing core internal services to the
ODE engine that are needed for its internal functioning, and not exposed to
third-party processes...
thank you for the prompt responses and for somewhat confusing set of
questions
Ivan
On Thu, Jul 31, 2008 at 10:11 PM, Matthieu Riou <ma...@offthelip.org>wrote:
> On Thu, Jul 31, 2008 at 6:51 PM, Alex Boisvert <bo...@intalio.com>
> wrote:
>
> > Hi Ivan,
> >
> > A good place to start, if you haven't looked yet, is to browse the
> > Integration Layer API,
> >
> >
> http://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/ode/branches/APACHE_ODE_1.X/bpel-api/src/main/java/org/apache/ode/bpel/iapi/
> >
> > or in the trunk where we've made some refactoring for better transaction
> > and
> > reliable messaging suppport,
> >
> >
> http://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/ode/trunk/bpel-api/src/main/java/org/apache/ode/bpel/iapi/
> >
> > You'll find all the interfaces for the IL as well as interfaces the
> engine
> > exposes to the outside world.
> >
> > You can also take a look at the existing implementations (Axis2 and JBI)
> to
> > get a better understanding and starting for the implementation, since
> > there
> > are usually (some) pieces that can be reused across ILs.
> >
>
> To complement the list, there's also an IL for ODE in Tuscany:
>
>
> http://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/tuscany/java/sca/modules/implementation-bpel-ode/src/main/java/org/apache/tuscany/sca/implementation/bpel/ode/
>
> The EmbeddedODEServer is a good starting point as it wires up the strict
> minimum resources necessary for ODE to run.
>
> Matthieu
>
>
> >
> > Ask questions if you need help...
> >
> > alex
> >
> > On Thu, Jul 31, 2008 at 5:33 PM, Ivan Trajkovic <ivan.itsoft@gmail.com
> > >wrote:
> >
> > > hello everyone
> > > Im pretty intrigued about ODE's capabilities, and would like to start
> > > integrating it into my new system.
> > > I was wondering if there was a place where I could read up more about
> how
> > > to
> > > go about integrating my classes into the Integration Layer so to have
> > those
> > > functions available as services from within my BPEL processes. I would
> > > prefer this approach to avoid slowdowns/inefficiencies due to SOAP
> > > parsing/transmission. The classes are written in Scala, but this is a
> > > non-issue since it all compiles down to JVM bytecode and looks the same
> > to
> > > ODE at runtime.
> > > Im still not sure how well this would scale, and Im assuming that it
> > would
> > > pretty much mean that I would have to make my class methods
> > > re-entrant/stateless.
> > > I've looked at the Javadocs but this is a pretty harsh way to start
> from
> > > scratch when there's no clue about what are the primary things to get
> > > familiar with.
> > >
> > > thank you for your help, its very much appreciated.
> > >
> >
>
Re: newbie integration layer question
Posted by Matthieu Riou <ma...@offthelip.org>.
On Thu, Jul 31, 2008 at 6:51 PM, Alex Boisvert <bo...@intalio.com> wrote:
> Hi Ivan,
>
> A good place to start, if you haven't looked yet, is to browse the
> Integration Layer API,
>
> http://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/ode/branches/APACHE_ODE_1.X/bpel-api/src/main/java/org/apache/ode/bpel/iapi/
>
> or in the trunk where we've made some refactoring for better transaction
> and
> reliable messaging suppport,
>
> http://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/ode/trunk/bpel-api/src/main/java/org/apache/ode/bpel/iapi/
>
> You'll find all the interfaces for the IL as well as interfaces the engine
> exposes to the outside world.
>
> You can also take a look at the existing implementations (Axis2 and JBI) to
> get a better understanding and starting for the implementation, since
> there
> are usually (some) pieces that can be reused across ILs.
>
To complement the list, there's also an IL for ODE in Tuscany:
http://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/tuscany/java/sca/modules/implementation-bpel-ode/src/main/java/org/apache/tuscany/sca/implementation/bpel/ode/
The EmbeddedODEServer is a good starting point as it wires up the strict
minimum resources necessary for ODE to run.
Matthieu
>
> Ask questions if you need help...
>
> alex
>
> On Thu, Jul 31, 2008 at 5:33 PM, Ivan Trajkovic <ivan.itsoft@gmail.com
> >wrote:
>
> > hello everyone
> > Im pretty intrigued about ODE's capabilities, and would like to start
> > integrating it into my new system.
> > I was wondering if there was a place where I could read up more about how
> > to
> > go about integrating my classes into the Integration Layer so to have
> those
> > functions available as services from within my BPEL processes. I would
> > prefer this approach to avoid slowdowns/inefficiencies due to SOAP
> > parsing/transmission. The classes are written in Scala, but this is a
> > non-issue since it all compiles down to JVM bytecode and looks the same
> to
> > ODE at runtime.
> > Im still not sure how well this would scale, and Im assuming that it
> would
> > pretty much mean that I would have to make my class methods
> > re-entrant/stateless.
> > I've looked at the Javadocs but this is a pretty harsh way to start from
> > scratch when there's no clue about what are the primary things to get
> > familiar with.
> >
> > thank you for your help, its very much appreciated.
> >
>
Re: newbie integration layer question
Posted by Alex Boisvert <bo...@intalio.com>.
Hi Ivan,
A good place to start, if you haven't looked yet, is to browse the
Integration Layer API,
http://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/ode/branches/APACHE_ODE_1.X/bpel-api/src/main/java/org/apache/ode/bpel/iapi/
or in the trunk where we've made some refactoring for better transaction and
reliable messaging suppport,
http://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/ode/trunk/bpel-api/src/main/java/org/apache/ode/bpel/iapi/
You'll find all the interfaces for the IL as well as interfaces the engine
exposes to the outside world.
You can also take a look at the existing implementations (Axis2 and JBI) to
get a better understanding and starting for the implementation, since there
are usually (some) pieces that can be reused across ILs.
Ask questions if you need help...
alex
On Thu, Jul 31, 2008 at 5:33 PM, Ivan Trajkovic <iv...@gmail.com>wrote:
> hello everyone
> Im pretty intrigued about ODE's capabilities, and would like to start
> integrating it into my new system.
> I was wondering if there was a place where I could read up more about how
> to
> go about integrating my classes into the Integration Layer so to have those
> functions available as services from within my BPEL processes. I would
> prefer this approach to avoid slowdowns/inefficiencies due to SOAP
> parsing/transmission. The classes are written in Scala, but this is a
> non-issue since it all compiles down to JVM bytecode and looks the same to
> ODE at runtime.
> Im still not sure how well this would scale, and Im assuming that it would
> pretty much mean that I would have to make my class methods
> re-entrant/stateless.
> I've looked at the Javadocs but this is a pretty harsh way to start from
> scratch when there's no clue about what are the primary things to get
> familiar with.
>
> thank you for your help, its very much appreciated.
>