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Posted to docs-dev@perl.apache.org by Stas Bekman <st...@stason.org> on 2002/05/03 05:27:17 UTC
A new design revision from Allan is online
Allan has prepared a new revision for you to review:
http://perl.apache.org/preview/allan/dst_html
here's a summary
* download widget is now small images that sort of continues
out of the headerline.
* headerline leftside is emphasised with the
fading/sparkling effect [this looks even more cool on search
results i think]
* headerline is smaller height-wise
* apache feather implemented at leftbox
* header floats with menu-top
* changed the menu-boxes slightly so their headers look
slightly seperated from the box.
- this was done only because when you click the first
menu-item it looks bad up to the perl.apache.org title.
* seach box on left slightly more compact and now look the
same [more or less] in all browsers
pleae note that the small search-changes of course are not visible.
thanks
* link colours/styles
- all links in lists are non-underlined and underlined on hover
- changed the red color in the class/rule for 'more' to #993333
instead of 'red' [if we stick to 'red' it should be '#ff0000' IMO]
* camel gif
- put it slightly more to the right to align with the nav-widget
* re-asigned some font-specs where at least ns4 is in doubt
of what to do.
* frontpage
- changed the qoute style as i cannot find a suitable way
that fits all browsers (take it as inspiration). i dont
think we should use the float trick, we only write 2002 ;)
* search results
- changed the <ul>-type indention with <div>-tags to avoid
problem in ns4. the divs are also more controlable
- changed the <dl> so that this it also is non-underlined by
default and underlined on hover.
THESE TWO SMALL CHANGES ARE UNTESTED ........ please try them.
* checked it on ns4/ie5/opera5 - all +2 IMO
__________________________________________________________________
Stas Bekman JAm_pH ------> Just Another mod_perl Hacker
http://stason.org/ mod_perl Guide ---> http://perl.apache.org
mailto:stas@stason.org http://use.perl.org http://apacheweek.com
http://modperlbook.org http://apache.org http://ticketmaster.com
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Re: A new design revision from Allan is online
Posted by allan juul <la...@inet.uni2.dk>.
On Friday, May 3, 2002, at 05:17 PM, Stas Bekman wrote:
> Jonathan M. Hollin wrote:
>
>>> * search results
>>> - changed the <ul>-type indention with <div>-tags to avoid problem in
>>> ns4. the divs are also more controlable
>>> - changed the <dl> so that this it also is non-underlined by default
>>> and underlined on hover. THESE TWO SMALL CHANGES ARE
>>> UNTESTED ........ please try them.
>> Can't tell - the search engine doesn't seem to be working. It's
>> returning no results and the error, "Could not open the index file
>> 'index.swish-e': No such file or directory".
>
> Sorry, I haven't created the index in first place. Please try again.
stas, i also changed something in search.tt so they are still not visible
thanks
./allan
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Re: A new design revision from Allan is online
Posted by Stas Bekman <st...@stason.org>.
Jonathan M. Hollin wrote:
>>* search results
>>- changed the <ul>-type indention with <div>-tags to avoid
>>problem in ns4. the divs are also more controlable
>>- changed the <dl> so that this it also is non-underlined by
>>default and underlined on hover. THESE TWO SMALL CHANGES ARE
>>UNTESTED ........ please try them.
>
>
> Can't tell - the search engine doesn't seem to be working. It's
> returning no results and the error, "Could not open the index file
> 'index.swish-e': No such file or directory".
Sorry, I haven't created the index in first place. Please try again.
__________________________________________________________________
Stas Bekman JAm_pH ------> Just Another mod_perl Hacker
http://stason.org/ mod_perl Guide ---> http://perl.apache.org
mailto:stas@stason.org http://use.perl.org http://apacheweek.com
http://modperlbook.org http://apache.org http://ticketmaster.com
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RE: A new design revision from Allan is online
Posted by "Jonathan M. Hollin" <ne...@digital-word.com>.
>Allan has prepared a new revision for you to review:
>http://perl.apache.org/preview/allan/dst_html
>
>here's a summary
>
>* download widget is now small images that sort of continues
>out of the headerline.
-1
These images get lost, because they are images. The widgets, or even
plain text links were much clearer and, thus, more intuitive.
>* headerline leftside is emphasised with the
>fading/sparkling effect [this looks even more cool on search
>results i think]
-0
>* headerline is smaller height-wise
+1
A step in the right direction, but could be thinner still.
>* apache feather implemented at leftbox
-1
This looks completely out of place. It looks like it's just been stuck
there as an afterthought. Plus, it conflicts with the logo.
>* header floats with menu-top
+1
>* changed the menu-boxes slightly so their headers look
>slightly seperated from the box.
>- this was done only because when you click the first
>menu-item it looks bad up to the perl.apache.org title.
-1
If you're referring to the large font used for the left panel box title
(e.g. "perl.apache.org"). On IE6 here they look too big.
Ah, now I see what you mean - the seperation. +1, oh yeah, I like that.
On the navigation menu, I like that the current section is highlighted.
Also +1m on finally doing something with the mouseovers on the
navigation links. The underline is much better than the
fade-to-invisible that was used previously.
>* seach box on left slightly more compact and now look the
>same [more or less] in all browsers
>pleae note that the small search-changes of course are not
>visible. thanks
+1
>* link colours/styles
>- all links in lists are non-underlined and underlined on hover
>- changed the red color in the class/rule for 'more' to
>#993333 instead of 'red' [if we stick to 'red' it should be
>'#ff0000' IMO]
+10
>* camel gif
>- put it slightly more to the right to align with the nav-widget
+1
>* re-asigned some font-specs where at least ns4 is in doubt
>of what to do.
+1
>* frontpage
>- changed the qoute style as i cannot find a suitable way
>that fits all browsers (take it as inspiration). i dont
>think we should use the float trick, we only write 2002 ;)
-1
It has no impact in that font. Perhaps bold would help, or a colour
(navy blue (#004080) looks nice to my eyes).
>* search results
>- changed the <ul>-type indention with <div>-tags to avoid
>problem in ns4. the divs are also more controlable
>- changed the <dl> so that this it also is non-underlined by
>default and underlined on hover. THESE TWO SMALL CHANGES ARE
>UNTESTED ........ please try them.
Can't tell - the search engine doesn't seem to be working. It's
returning no results and the error, "Could not open the index file
'index.swish-e': No such file or directory".
>* checked it on ns4/ie5/opera5 - all +2 IMO
IE6 +1
NS6 +1
both on windows
Not tested on Mac or Linux yet, but I'll post an update if any anomalies
are visible.
Jonathan M. Hollin - WYPUG Co-ordinator
West Yorkshire Perl User Group
http://wypug.pm.org/
http://wypug.digital-word.com/
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Re: A new design revision from Allan is online
Posted by allan juul <la...@inet.uni2.dk>.
On Friday, May 3, 2002, at 04:36 PM, Thomas Klausner wrote:
> On Fri, 3 May 2002, Stas Bekman wrote:
>
>> http://perl.apache.org/preview/allan/dst_html
>
>> * checked it on ns4/ie5/opera5 - all +2 IMO
> Linux:
> on Mozilla 0.9.7, there is no spacing between the first navbar box and
> the
> search box, but there is between search, shortcuts, sister sites etc.
>
> I guess it's a minor problem caused by an old version of Mozilla ...
>
i actually found fix/hack for this that ill post soonish!
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Re: A new design revision from Allan is online
Posted by Thomas Klausner <do...@zsi.at>.
On Fri, 3 May 2002, Stas Bekman wrote:
> http://perl.apache.org/preview/allan/dst_html
> * checked it on ns4/ie5/opera5 - all +2 IMO
Linux:
on Mozilla 0.9.7, there is no spacing between the first navbar box and the
search box, but there is between search, shortcuts, sister sites etc.
I guess it's a minor problem caused by an old version of Mozilla ...
Looks cool, BTW.
The only thing I don't like too much are the SRC and PDF buttons. They are
situated right under the prev/up/next widget, and look totally different.
Why not style them like prev/up/next ?
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Re: A new design revision from Allan is online
Posted by Bill Moseley <mo...@hank.org>.
At 08:59 AM 05/04/02 +0800, allan juul wrote:
>how can you see the large ns4.0 fonts if ns4.0 crashes? is it only
>certain pages it creashes on? if so, please note which.
It only crashes on some pages. I posted last week ago about my tries at
isolating it -- nothing specific within the page is causing it, or so it
seems.
My common test page is getwet.html (easy to get to).
>> In NS4.0 I see no difference in the search results themselves, other
>> than
>> they now extend past the left edge of the window due to the input field
>> being huge.
>
>ok i out-commented some styles for the form-input-elements. i wouldn't
>have thought that they would have a significant impact on ns4 as it
>normally don't understand those in the first place?
That's why I added them, to control the size of the input fields. But the
search box is still a normal size, so I'm not sure I understand why it
seems to only have changed in the swish.cgi form. (But I haven't had a
chance to look, either.)
--
Bill Moseley
mailto:moseley@hank.org
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Re: A new design revision from Allan is online
Posted by allan juul <la...@inet.uni2.dk>.
On Friday, May 3, 2002, at 11:39 PM, Bill Moseley wrote:
> At 11:27 AM 05/03/02 +0800, Stas Bekman wrote:
>> Allan has prepared a new revision for you to review:
>> http://perl.apache.org/preview/allan/dst_html
>
> Thanks Allan!
>
> NS4.0 still crashes. Not sure what was ever decided about that.
>
> NS4.0 also has large very large fonts (the main sidebar perl.apache.org
> nav
> menu overflows into the content area). Still seems like we should be
> using
> @import or mod_rewrite and use different style sheets for NS4. Two
> sheets
> to maintain, true, but probably easier than trying to get one sheet to
> work
> for all clients.
how can you see the large ns4.0 fonts if ns4.0 crashes? is it only
certain pages it creashes on? if so, please note which.
>> * download widget is now small images that sort of continues
>> out of the headerline.
>
> -1
>
> I feel like that's one more design element to detract from the
> simplicity,
> and not sure what functionality it adds.
well, the fonts alone looked out of place IMO especially cross-systems.
how about using the well-known pdf icon and our old src-icon instead,
just an idea?
>> * headerline leftside is emphasised with the
>> fading/sparkling effect [this looks even more cool on search
>> results i think]
>> * headerline is smaller height-wise
>> * apache feather implemented at leftbox
>> * header floats with menu-top
>
> Comparing:
>
> http://perl.apache.org/preview/allan/dst_html/docs/1.0/guide/getwet.html
> http://mardy.hank.org:5000/docs/1.0/guide/getwet.html
>
> I think it's just a matter of style. In this group, I think Jonathan
> and I
> have similar design ideas. Not everyone agrees as these are personal
> opinions:
>
> The new design removes white space. Some may feel like it's a waste of
> the
> screen to have white space forcing people to scroll. Of course, we
> have no
> idea how big each user's window is.
>
> I think that white space makes the site lighter to look at and thus more
> comfortable to read, and therefore more functional.
i actually +2 for whitespace, but at the top of the page i prefer
compactness ;)
> The main menu has been moved down, and the content moved up. So the
> "perl.apache.org" is on the same level as the title. Also with the
> larger
> "perl.apache.org" font then it's really on the same strength as the main
> title. Design wise, it's not giving hints where the reader's eye should
> go.
this is only because i changed 14px to 1.1em [we agreed on relative
sizes at a point]. so this could be ironed out i figure.
>> * changed the menu-boxes slightly so their headers look
>> slightly seperated from the box.
>> - this was done only because when you click the first
>> menu-item it looks bad up to the perl.apache.org title.
>
> I never noticed that before. I'm -1 as it doubled the number of
> elements
> on the left side. More noise.
ok, i think it gives "depth" whereas the usual menu-design is plain and
flat.
>> * camel gif
>> - put it slightly more to the right to align with the nav-widget
>
> Hard to notice any difference without side-by-side comparison.
look at the far right side, the back-leg of the camel does it float with
the nav-widget?
>> * frontpage
>> - changed the qoute style as i cannot find a suitable way
>> that fits all browsers (take it as inspiration). i dont
>> think we should use the float trick, we only write 2002 ;)
>
> Too bad italics look so bad. It looks a bit weird as if it's a slightly
> different font. Maybe that's the way the smaller font is forced to
> scale?
it _is_ a different font. im not saying we should use this style but i
couldn't find a way that didn't fuck one or another boroeser/system up.
so i simplified it.
remember the horizontal scrolling on IE5, does this design scroll on the
frontpage?
>> * search results
>> - changed the <ul>-type indention with <div>-tags to avoid
>> problem in ns4. the divs are also more controlable
>
> I'm not sure what problem you are referring to.
THATS BECAUSE ITS NOT VISIBLE IN THE BUILT DESIGN AT THE MOMENT...
we discussed it before. when you use <li> as a trick to indent
form-elemts and at the same time specify list-style:none (or whatever),
ns4 show a silly "?" just before the element. the questionmark is there
because you have to have some kind of list-style (disc etc.) in ns4 at
least.
my suggestions is using seperate divs per line of form-element. this is
more controlable (indention-level) and will not show a "?".
> But in NS4.0 search form doesn't work as well as before. The input bar
> is
> now the wider than the width of the screen, the fonts are bigger and the
> <li> bullet points are showing.
NOT IMPLEMNTED IN THE BUILT DESIGN
> In NS4.0 I see no difference in the search results themselves, other
> than
> they now extend past the left edge of the window due to the input field
> being huge.
ok i out-commented some styles for the form-input-elements. i wouldn't
have thought that they would have a significant impact on ns4 as it
normally don't understand those in the first place?
>> - changed the <dl> so that this it also is non-underlined by
>> default and underlined on hover.
>
> I don't see that change.
> see above
by the way. if you inside NS4.0 click in "about navigator", is the
version number suffixed with a huge "B"? [its a joke]
thanks for the comments
./allan
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Re: A new design revision from Allan is online
Posted by Bill Moseley <mo...@hank.org>.
At 11:27 AM 05/03/02 +0800, Stas Bekman wrote:
>Allan has prepared a new revision for you to review:
>http://perl.apache.org/preview/allan/dst_html
Thanks Allan!
NS4.0 still crashes. Not sure what was ever decided about that.
NS4.0 also has large very large fonts (the main sidebar perl.apache.org nav
menu overflows into the content area). Still seems like we should be using
@import or mod_rewrite and use different style sheets for NS4. Two sheets
to maintain, true, but probably easier than trying to get one sheet to work
for all clients.
Mostly, you can take Jonathan's comments x 2.
Overall, design wise things are fine. Seems like minor tweaks mostly, and
I can live with that, but if I had to decide, overall I'm -1, but again,
these kind of minor tweaks could be debated for months, so it's not a big
issue for me. Yet, some things are now broken by this update.
The wife's test without any discussion: -1
>* download widget is now small images that sort of continues
>out of the headerline.
-1
I feel like that's one more design element to detract from the simplicity,
and not sure what functionality it adds.
>* headerline leftside is emphasised with the
>fading/sparkling effect [this looks even more cool on search
>results i think]
>* headerline is smaller height-wise
>* apache feather implemented at leftbox
>* header floats with menu-top
Comparing:
http://perl.apache.org/preview/allan/dst_html/docs/1.0/guide/getwet.html
http://mardy.hank.org:5000/docs/1.0/guide/getwet.html
I think it's just a matter of style. In this group, I think Jonathan and I
have similar design ideas. Not everyone agrees as these are personal
opinions:
The new design removes white space. Some may feel like it's a waste of the
screen to have white space forcing people to scroll. Of course, we have no
idea how big each user's window is.
I think that white space makes the site lighter to look at and thus more
comfortable to read, and therefore more functional.
The main menu has been moved down, and the content moved up. So the
"perl.apache.org" is on the same level as the title. Also with the larger
"perl.apache.org" font then it's really on the same strength as the main
title. Design wise, it's not giving hints where the reader's eye should go.
Second, the sparkle is cool, but now we have a header that has a collection
of design elements. Imagine a paragraph with a mixture of font families.
Too busy.
Again, all minor points, but if you want comments, well there you are.
>* changed the menu-boxes slightly so their headers look
>slightly seperated from the box.
>- this was done only because when you click the first
>menu-item it looks bad up to the perl.apache.org title.
I never noticed that before. I'm -1 as it doubled the number of elements
on the left side. More noise.
>* seach box on left slightly more compact and now look the
>same [more or less] in all browsers
>pleae note that the small search-changes of course are not visible.
>thanks
+1 I was wondering why IE was displaying so much space around the input field.
>* link colours/styles
>- all links in lists are non-underlined and underlined on hover
>- changed the red color in the class/rule for 'more' to #993333
>instead of 'red' [if we stick to 'red' it should be '#ff0000' IMO]
+1
>* camel gif
>- put it slightly more to the right to align with the nav-widget
Hard to notice any difference without side-by-side comparison.
>* frontpage
>- changed the qoute style as i cannot find a suitable way
>that fits all browsers (take it as inspiration). i dont
>think we should use the float trick, we only write 2002 ;)
Too bad italics look so bad. It looks a bit weird as if it's a slightly
different font. Maybe that's the way the smaller font is forced to scale?
>* search results
>- changed the <ul>-type indention with <div>-tags to avoid
>problem in ns4. the divs are also more controlable
I'm not sure what problem you are referring to.
But in NS4.0 search form doesn't work as well as before. The input bar is
now the wider than the width of the screen, the fonts are bigger and the
<li> bullet points are showing.
In NS4.0 I see no difference in the search results themselves, other than
they now extend past the left edge of the window due to the input field
being huge.
>- changed the <dl> so that this it also is non-underlined by
>default and underlined on hover.
I don't see that change.
--
Bill Moseley
mailto:moseley@hank.org
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