You are viewing a plain text version of this content. The canonical link for it is here.
Posted to dev@cayenne.apache.org by Andrus Adamchik <an...@objectstyle.org> on 2012/06/12 13:17:17 UTC
[ann] Apache Cayenne 3.1 goes beta
Very happy to announce Cayenne 3.1 beta! The full announcement can be found here:
http://cayenne.apache.org/2012/06/12/cayenne-31-beta-released.html
Download is here of course:
http://cayenne.apache.org/download.html
A note on 3.1 documentation. The new PDF guides shipped with the download document all the new features, and some of the old ones. However they are still work in progress. I suggest still checking the PDFs, as they are the only source of information on the DI, configuration properties and the new way to start Cayenne runtime, but go back to 3.0 HTML docs whenever you find a gaping hole in the PDF:
http://cayenne.apache.org/doc30/overview.html
We should finish the docs by the time 3.1 is final.
Cheers,
Andrus
Re: [ann] Apache Cayenne 3.1 goes beta
Posted by Malcolm Edgar <ma...@gmail.com>.
Great news, thanks for all your efforts.
regards
On Tue, Jun 12, 2012 at 9:17 PM, Andrus Adamchik <an...@objectstyle.org>wrote:
> Very happy to announce Cayenne 3.1 beta! The full announcement can be
> found here:
>
> http://cayenne.apache.org/2012/06/12/cayenne-31-beta-released.html
>
> Download is here of course:
>
> http://cayenne.apache.org/download.html
>
> A note on 3.1 documentation. The new PDF guides shipped with the download
> document all the new features, and some of the old ones. However they are
> still work in progress. I suggest still checking the PDFs, as they are the
> only source of information on the DI, configuration properties and the new
> way to start Cayenne runtime, but go back to 3.0 HTML docs whenever you
> find a gaping hole in the PDF:
>
> http://cayenne.apache.org/doc30/overview.html
>
> We should finish the docs by the time 3.1 is final.
>
> Cheers,
> Andrus
Re: [ann] Apache Cayenne 3.1 goes beta
Posted by Andrus Adamchik <an...@objectstyle.org>.
I see. Modeler was never intended to be a standalone ER Modeling tool. My own vision was to keep it useful for Cayenne users. Never the less, most of the things that you mentioned are directly aligned with this goal, and we can improve Modeler for everyone if we pay attention to them. For many of the questions (Object / Db layers split, general terminology, etc.) the short answer is - it is done like that because Cayenne runtime expects it to be like that. There's a story behind each one of them, but I don't see any of that changing right now.
Improving the Modeler is another story. Like Ari said, we are open to help from volunteers to make the tool better. I am personally submerged too deeply in the framework internals to do more than isolated tweaks to the Modeler, usually limited to keeping it up with new runtime features. Also there have been lots of Modeler contributions from other committers and users (entity synchronization, new preferences, diagraming tool, etc, etc. was all done by different people). This was awesome, but having someone to take a more permanent ownership of the UI tools (we also have a prototype Eclipse plugin) and make them shine would be even more awesome.
And until then we'll be happy to discuss and take a la carte improvements :)
Andrus
On Apr 10, 2013, at 11:32 AM, Robert Huber @ 7r <hu...@seven-r.ch> wrote:
> Hi Andrus
>
>> The goal of CayenneModeler is not abstract modeling, but rather to create a binding between DB and Java. So I don't quite understand how it is useful for you if you are not writing a Cayenne application?
>
> As we stopped some years ago developing with WebObjects, we continue(d) to use the EOModeler (Entity Modeler, WOLips). As it is a nice ER Modelling tool and works well. But now there is no or not much activity any more on the WOLips side, I have the impression (although not sure). But anyway, We have to get a diagram for discussions and therefor we still have an OS X 10.4 machine with EOModeler installed, to be able to import the WOLips .eomodeld file an print a diagram (more make a PDF an they print a big size diagram, as there are typically more than 100 entities). But all this is not a good work flow and we have to get a replacement. And as Cayenne Modeler can import .eomodeld files, it's an obvious tool to look at.
>
> In short, we are interested in Cayenne Modeler as a standalone tool for our database design modeling needs and to generate code (for SAP Sybase SQL Anyhwere databases or PostgreSQL databases)
>
> Best regards, Robert
>
>
>>
>> I'll be happy to answer the specific questions, but I am not quite sure I follow your scenario.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Andrus
>>
>>
>> On Apr 9, 2013, at 7:23 PM, Robert Huber @ 7r <ro...@sunrise.ch> wrote:
>>
>>> Hello Andrus
>>>
>>> Thanks a lot for the new release 3B2 which was the reason to try Cayenne Modeler again.
>>> We currently use EOModeler for all of our modelling tasks. Having tried Cayenne Modeler only a little bit several times, I started seriously again with this build and your getting started guide an built the Artist - Gallery project to see if Cayenne Modeler could now be a successor for EOModeler.
>>> But I assume I have some general understanding problems.
>>>
>>> I would very much appreciate if you could demystify some of them. Thank you a lot for your answers or hints in advance.
>>>
>>> Task
>>> – In EOModeler, the task is to model an ER-Model. For example, I create an entity, add attributes and relationships between entities. I then can add column names and other implementation details as column width, type, … So I make in one place the ER-Model and the mapping to the relational model.
>>> – In Cayenne Modeler, it seems, one has to start with the implementation side, i. e. the relational model side, and then somehow create the ER-Model? So one is not exactly starting with modeling, but wit the implementation?
>>>
>>> Some Observations/Questions
>>> → Is this the intended procedure? Why doesn't it start on the modelling side, i. e. the defining of entities (classes) with their attributes etc.? And then allowing to map it to the relational model.
>>>
>>> → The splitting between the tables and classes seems quite complicate to me, especially with the create ObjEntity and syncing between the two «models». May be there is a reason for this separation and syncing which I don't recognize?
>>>
>>> → When creating an ObjEntity from an DBEntity (table), the name of the ObjEntity is in plural, whereas a common naming is singular for the entity, e. g. Artist (as it is a set), and plural for the table, e. g. artists. Unfortunatly (for me), the ObjEntity is also plural. I found it can be overridden, but if one presses the green C button again, an new ObjEntity in plural is created beside the existing in singular.
>>>
>>> → The primary key attributes are not displayed in the ObjEntity. Why not? It is displayed in the
>>>
>>> → The column name exists in ObjEntity as DbAttribute, and in the DbEntity (table) as column name, i. e. it is in two places, but can only be edited in the DbEntity, not in the ObjEntity
>>>
>>> → Naming in Cayenne Modeler its very strange for me, as many things seem mixed. For the ERM side (P.P.S. Cheng) I would have expected terms like entity, attribute, relationship, sub type, super type, … and for the relational model (F. Codd) I would have expected terms like table (relation), column, domain, …
>>>
>>> → If I organize the ER Diagram and Class graphs as I like, it is set to some default (even depending on the window size) after reopening the project. If I organize the ER Diagram, it should absolutely keep it's layout. I think this is a necessity for larger models.
>>>
>>> → I miss the ability to place some sort of text box in the ER Diagram and to give a self defined color to the entity (class) or table.
>>>
>>> → I did not find EOPrototypes, a great concept for applying DB types for quickly porting a model to a new database. I really have problems if this is not available.
>>>
>>> As I would primarily use the Cayenne Modeler (as we work with Servoy, we will not use the Cayenne Framework), I am at the moment not comfortable to make the switch from EOModeler to Cayenne Modeler. I am very much aware that making such a tool is a lot of work and appreciate it in every way. So the above points are not meant as a critic but a way to find out if Cayenne Modeler could be a successor tool for us. I am also a bit unsure for what tasks exactly Cayenne Modeler is really meant?
>>>
>>> Thanks and best regards, Robert
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ r. huber
>>> _/
>>> _/ _/ _/ 7r gmbh
>>> _/ _/ _/ alpenstrasse 93
>>> _/ _// ch-8200 schaffhausen
>>> _/ _/
>>> _/ _/ tel. +41 52 624 81 15 www.seven-r.ch
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 12.06.2012, at 13:17, Andrus Adamchik wrote:
>>>
>>>> Very happy to announce Cayenne 3.1 beta! The full announcement can be found here:
>>>>
>>>> http://cayenne.apache.org/2012/06/12/cayenne-31-beta-released.html
>>>>
>>>> Download is here of course:
>>>>
>>>> http://cayenne.apache.org/download.html
>>>>
>>>> A note on 3.1 documentation. The new PDF guides shipped with the download document all the new features, and some of the old ones. However they are still work in progress. I suggest still checking the PDFs, as they are the only source of information on the DI, configuration properties and the new way to start Cayenne runtime, but go back to 3.0 HTML docs whenever you find a gaping hole in the PDF:
>>>>
>>>> http://cayenne.apache.org/doc30/overview.html
>>>>
>>>> We should finish the docs by the time 3.1 is final.
>>>>
>>>> Cheers,
>>>> Andrus
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
Re: [ann] Apache Cayenne 3.1 goes beta
Posted by "Robert Huber @ 7r" <hu...@seven-r.ch>.
Hi Andrus
> The goal of CayenneModeler is not abstract modeling, but rather to create a binding between DB and Java. So I don't quite understand how it is useful for you if you are not writing a Cayenne application?
As we stopped some years ago developing with WebObjects, we continue(d) to use the EOModeler (Entity Modeler, WOLips). As it is a nice ER Modelling tool and works well. But now there is no or not much activity any more on the WOLips side, I have the impression (although not sure). But anyway, We have to get a diagram for discussions and therefor we still have an OS X 10.4 machine with EOModeler installed, to be able to import the WOLips .eomodeld file an print a diagram (more make a PDF an they print a big size diagram, as there are typically more than 100 entities). But all this is not a good work flow and we have to get a replacement. And as Cayenne Modeler can import .eomodeld files, it's an obvious tool to look at.
In short, we are interested in Cayenne Modeler as a standalone tool for our database design modeling needs and to generate code (for SAP Sybase SQL Anyhwere databases or PostgreSQL databases)
Best regards, Robert
>
> I'll be happy to answer the specific questions, but I am not quite sure I follow your scenario.
>
> Thanks,
> Andrus
>
>
> On Apr 9, 2013, at 7:23 PM, Robert Huber @ 7r <ro...@sunrise.ch> wrote:
>
>> Hello Andrus
>>
>> Thanks a lot for the new release 3B2 which was the reason to try Cayenne Modeler again.
>> We currently use EOModeler for all of our modelling tasks. Having tried Cayenne Modeler only a little bit several times, I started seriously again with this build and your getting started guide an built the Artist - Gallery project to see if Cayenne Modeler could now be a successor for EOModeler.
>> But I assume I have some general understanding problems.
>>
>> I would very much appreciate if you could demystify some of them. Thank you a lot for your answers or hints in advance.
>>
>> Task
>> – In EOModeler, the task is to model an ER-Model. For example, I create an entity, add attributes and relationships between entities. I then can add column names and other implementation details as column width, type, … So I make in one place the ER-Model and the mapping to the relational model.
>> – In Cayenne Modeler, it seems, one has to start with the implementation side, i. e. the relational model side, and then somehow create the ER-Model? So one is not exactly starting with modeling, but wit the implementation?
>>
>> Some Observations/Questions
>> → Is this the intended procedure? Why doesn't it start on the modelling side, i. e. the defining of entities (classes) with their attributes etc.? And then allowing to map it to the relational model.
>>
>> → The splitting between the tables and classes seems quite complicate to me, especially with the create ObjEntity and syncing between the two «models». May be there is a reason for this separation and syncing which I don't recognize?
>>
>> → When creating an ObjEntity from an DBEntity (table), the name of the ObjEntity is in plural, whereas a common naming is singular for the entity, e. g. Artist (as it is a set), and plural for the table, e. g. artists. Unfortunatly (for me), the ObjEntity is also plural. I found it can be overridden, but if one presses the green C button again, an new ObjEntity in plural is created beside the existing in singular.
>>
>> → The primary key attributes are not displayed in the ObjEntity. Why not? It is displayed in the
>>
>> → The column name exists in ObjEntity as DbAttribute, and in the DbEntity (table) as column name, i. e. it is in two places, but can only be edited in the DbEntity, not in the ObjEntity
>>
>> → Naming in Cayenne Modeler its very strange for me, as many things seem mixed. For the ERM side (P.P.S. Cheng) I would have expected terms like entity, attribute, relationship, sub type, super type, … and for the relational model (F. Codd) I would have expected terms like table (relation), column, domain, …
>>
>> → If I organize the ER Diagram and Class graphs as I like, it is set to some default (even depending on the window size) after reopening the project. If I organize the ER Diagram, it should absolutely keep it's layout. I think this is a necessity for larger models.
>>
>> → I miss the ability to place some sort of text box in the ER Diagram and to give a self defined color to the entity (class) or table.
>>
>> → I did not find EOPrototypes, a great concept for applying DB types for quickly porting a model to a new database. I really have problems if this is not available.
>>
>> As I would primarily use the Cayenne Modeler (as we work with Servoy, we will not use the Cayenne Framework), I am at the moment not comfortable to make the switch from EOModeler to Cayenne Modeler. I am very much aware that making such a tool is a lot of work and appreciate it in every way. So the above points are not meant as a critic but a way to find out if Cayenne Modeler could be a successor tool for us. I am also a bit unsure for what tasks exactly Cayenne Modeler is really meant?
>>
>> Thanks and best regards, Robert
>>
>>
>>
>> _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ r. huber
>> _/
>> _/ _/ _/ 7r gmbh
>> _/ _/ _/ alpenstrasse 93
>> _/ _// ch-8200 schaffhausen
>> _/ _/
>> _/ _/ tel. +41 52 624 81 15 www.seven-r.ch
>>
>>
>>
>> On 12.06.2012, at 13:17, Andrus Adamchik wrote:
>>
>>> Very happy to announce Cayenne 3.1 beta! The full announcement can be found here:
>>>
>>> http://cayenne.apache.org/2012/06/12/cayenne-31-beta-released.html
>>>
>>> Download is here of course:
>>>
>>> http://cayenne.apache.org/download.html
>>>
>>> A note on 3.1 documentation. The new PDF guides shipped with the download document all the new features, and some of the old ones. However they are still work in progress. I suggest still checking the PDFs, as they are the only source of information on the DI, configuration properties and the new way to start Cayenne runtime, but go back to 3.0 HTML docs whenever you find a gaping hole in the PDF:
>>>
>>> http://cayenne.apache.org/doc30/overview.html
>>>
>>> We should finish the docs by the time 3.1 is final.
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> Andrus
>>
>>
>
>
Re: [ann] Apache Cayenne 3.1 goes beta
Posted by Andrus Adamchik <an...@objectstyle.org>.
Hi Robert,
The goal of CayenneModeler is not abstract modeling, but rather to create a binding between DB and Java. So I don't quite understand how it is useful for you if you are not writing a Cayenne application?
I'll be happy to answer the specific questions, but I am not quite sure I follow your scenario.
Thanks,
Andrus
On Apr 9, 2013, at 7:23 PM, Robert Huber @ 7r <ro...@sunrise.ch> wrote:
> Hello Andrus
>
> Thanks a lot for the new release 3B2 which was the reason to try Cayenne Modeler again.
> We currently use EOModeler for all of our modelling tasks. Having tried Cayenne Modeler only a little bit several times, I started seriously again with this build and your getting started guide an built the Artist - Gallery project to see if Cayenne Modeler could now be a successor for EOModeler.
> But I assume I have some general understanding problems.
>
> I would very much appreciate if you could demystify some of them. Thank you a lot for your answers or hints in advance.
>
> Task
> – In EOModeler, the task is to model an ER-Model. For example, I create an entity, add attributes and relationships between entities. I then can add column names and other implementation details as column width, type, … So I make in one place the ER-Model and the mapping to the relational model.
> – In Cayenne Modeler, it seems, one has to start with the implementation side, i. e. the relational model side, and then somehow create the ER-Model? So one is not exactly starting with modeling, but wit the implementation?
>
> Some Observations/Questions
> → Is this the intended procedure? Why doesn't it start on the modelling side, i. e. the defining of entities (classes) with their attributes etc.? And then allowing to map it to the relational model.
>
> → The splitting between the tables and classes seems quite complicate to me, especially with the create ObjEntity and syncing between the two «models». May be there is a reason for this separation and syncing which I don't recognize?
>
> → When creating an ObjEntity from an DBEntity (table), the name of the ObjEntity is in plural, whereas a common naming is singular for the entity, e. g. Artist (as it is a set), and plural for the table, e. g. artists. Unfortunatly (for me), the ObjEntity is also plural. I found it can be overridden, but if one presses the green C button again, an new ObjEntity in plural is created beside the existing in singular.
>
> → The primary key attributes are not displayed in the ObjEntity. Why not? It is displayed in the
>
> → The column name exists in ObjEntity as DbAttribute, and in the DbEntity (table) as column name, i. e. it is in two places, but can only be edited in the DbEntity, not in the ObjEntity
>
> → Naming in Cayenne Modeler its very strange for me, as many things seem mixed. For the ERM side (P.P.S. Cheng) I would have expected terms like entity, attribute, relationship, sub type, super type, … and for the relational model (F. Codd) I would have expected terms like table (relation), column, domain, …
>
> → If I organize the ER Diagram and Class graphs as I like, it is set to some default (even depending on the window size) after reopening the project. If I organize the ER Diagram, it should absolutely keep it's layout. I think this is a necessity for larger models.
>
> → I miss the ability to place some sort of text box in the ER Diagram and to give a self defined color to the entity (class) or table.
>
> → I did not find EOPrototypes, a great concept for applying DB types for quickly porting a model to a new database. I really have problems if this is not available.
>
> As I would primarily use the Cayenne Modeler (as we work with Servoy, we will not use the Cayenne Framework), I am at the moment not comfortable to make the switch from EOModeler to Cayenne Modeler. I am very much aware that making such a tool is a lot of work and appreciate it in every way. So the above points are not meant as a critic but a way to find out if Cayenne Modeler could be a successor tool for us. I am also a bit unsure for what tasks exactly Cayenne Modeler is really meant?
>
> Thanks and best regards, Robert
>
>
>
> _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ r. huber
> _/
> _/ _/ _/ 7r gmbh
> _/ _/ _/ alpenstrasse 93
> _/ _// ch-8200 schaffhausen
> _/ _/
> _/ _/ tel. +41 52 624 81 15 www.seven-r.ch
>
>
>
> On 12.06.2012, at 13:17, Andrus Adamchik wrote:
>
>> Very happy to announce Cayenne 3.1 beta! The full announcement can be found here:
>>
>> http://cayenne.apache.org/2012/06/12/cayenne-31-beta-released.html
>>
>> Download is here of course:
>>
>> http://cayenne.apache.org/download.html
>>
>> A note on 3.1 documentation. The new PDF guides shipped with the download document all the new features, and some of the old ones. However they are still work in progress. I suggest still checking the PDFs, as they are the only source of information on the DI, configuration properties and the new way to start Cayenne runtime, but go back to 3.0 HTML docs whenever you find a gaping hole in the PDF:
>>
>> http://cayenne.apache.org/doc30/overview.html
>>
>> We should finish the docs by the time 3.1 is final.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Andrus
>
>
Re: [ann] Apache Cayenne 3.1 goes beta
Posted by Aristedes Maniatis <ar...@maniatis.org>.
On 10/04/13 11:42pm, Robert Huber @ 7r wrote:
>> Another thought (you mentioned that you output PDF) is that you could easily create an XSLT to take the Cayenne Model and turn it into an html report. Happy to assist with that since I've worked on a lot of xslt now.
> As there seems to be no Print… menu, this would may be help to get an ER-Diagram to print. How do you do it?
The general principle is this:
1 create an xslt file
2 run a tool [1] and feed it the cayenne model and the xslt file as the two inputs
3 out comes the html
4 mix with a little css to make it pretty
Of course the real magic is in the xslt file itself. If you have a web designer available to you, work with them on creating an html file example which demonstrates what you want. Creating the xslt itself is usually quite simple and there are tools to help [2]. If you create the html example, I'd be happy to work with you on the xslt.
Remember, this can only display the information in the model file. So we aren't going to have a pretty graph with lines between the classes unless you fed it to a tool like graphviz. [3] I don't know much about that. The sort of html report I describe above is not that.
[1] http://saxon.sourceforge.net/
[2] http://www.oxygenxml.com/
[3] http://www.graphviz.org/
--
-------------------------->
Aristedes Maniatis
GPG fingerprint CBFB 84B4 738D 4E87 5E5C 5EFA EF6A 7D2E 3E49 102A
Re: [ann] Apache Cayenne 3.1 goes beta
Posted by "Robert Huber @ 7r" <hu...@seven-r.ch>.
Hi Ari
>>> >Its role is to model the database for users of Cayenne. However, if you want to use it as a more general modeling tool, we would be happy to accept contributions which make it more useful in that regard. Additional meta-data such as notes, colours, etc have long been on our todo list but need someone to step forward with a specific need and the time to implement it.
>> Yes I know it's a problem, finding someone who has the time and the ability to contribute.
>
> Sure. You will find we are very willing to help you along your development process to understand and build on Cayenne Modeler, if you want to fix the rough edges that you have found for your use cases.
Thanks very much for your helping hand! I think I can now understand more or less how it is intended and found with trial how it works (more or less). Currently my highest priority wish would be that the model (graph) doesn't reset the alignment I have manually done – by moving the entities to place I like them to be.
> Another thought (you mentioned that you output PDF) is that you could easily create an XSLT to take the Cayenne Model and turn it into an html report. Happy to assist with that since I've worked on a lot of xslt now.
As there seems to be no Print… menu, this would may be help to get an ER-Diagram to print. How do you do it?
Best regards, Robert
Re: [ann] Apache Cayenne 3.1 goes beta
Posted by Aristedes Maniatis <ar...@maniatis.org>.
On 10/04/13 6:39pm, Robert Huber @ 7r wrote:
>> >Its role is to model the database for users of Cayenne. However, if you want to use it as a more general modeling tool, we would be happy to accept contributions which make it more useful in that regard. Additional meta-data such as notes, colours, etc have long been on our todo list but need someone to step forward with a specific need and the time to implement it.
> Yes I know it's a problem, finding someone who has the time and the ability to contribute.
Sure. You will find we are very willing to help you along your development process to understand and build on Cayenne Modeler, if you want to fix the rough edges that you have found for your use cases.
Another thought (you mentioned that you output PDF) is that you could easily create an XSLT to take the Cayenne Model and turn it into an html report. Happy to assist with that since I've worked on a lot of xslt now.
Ari
--
-------------------------->
Aristedes Maniatis
GPG fingerprint CBFB 84B4 738D 4E87 5E5C 5EFA EF6A 7D2E 3E49 102A
Re: [ann] Apache Cayenne 3.1 goes beta
Posted by "Robert Huber @ 7r" <hu...@seven-r.ch>.
Hi Ari
Thanks a lot for your answers, very helpful to get a deeper understanding about the ideas in Cayenne Modeler.
>> → The splitting between the tables and classes seems quite complicate to me, especially with the create ObjEntity and syncing between the two «models». May be there is a reason for this separation and syncing which I don't recognize?
>
> It does tend to make the model more flexible (especially when you have inheritance). But I agree that it first sight it is somewhat confusing. I personally like the EOModeler presentation in this regard.
Thanks for clarification, I thought it might be something like this. I can live with that, although it seems a bit complicated to use.
>> → The primary key attributes are not displayed in the ObjEntity. Why not? It is displayed in the
>
> By default Cayenne hides the primary key from the user. Typically this is what you want but you can easily expose it.
How?
>
>
>> As I would primarily use the Cayenne Modeler (as we work with Servoy, we will not use the Cayenne Framework), I am at the moment not comfortable to make the switch from EOModeler to Cayenne Modeler. I am very much aware that making such a tool is a lot of work and appreciate it in every way. So the above points are not meant as a critic but a way to find out if Cayenne Modeler could be a successor tool for us. I am also a bit unsure for what tasks exactly Cayenne Modeler is really meant?
>
> Its role is to model the database for users of Cayenne. However, if you want to use it as a more general modeling tool, we would be happy to accept contributions which make it more useful in that regard. Additional meta-data such as notes, colours, etc have long been on our todo list but need someone to step forward with a specific need and the time to implement it.
Yes I know it's a problem, finding someone who has the time and the ability to contribute.
Best regards, Robert
Re: [ann] Apache Cayenne 3.1 goes beta
Posted by Aristedes Maniatis <ar...@maniatis.org>.
On 10/04/13 2:23am, Robert Huber @ 7r wrote:
> → The splitting between the tables and classes seems quite complicate to me, especially with the create ObjEntity and syncing between the two «models». May be there is a reason for this separation and syncing which I don't recognize?
It does tend to make the model more flexible (especially when you have inheritance). But I agree that it first sight it is somewhat confusing. I personally like the EOModeler presentation in this regard.
> → The primary key attributes are not displayed in the ObjEntity. Why not? It is displayed in the
By default Cayenne hides the primary key from the user. Typically this is what you want but you can easily expose it.
> As I would primarily use the Cayenne Modeler (as we work with Servoy, we will not use the Cayenne Framework), I am at the moment not comfortable to make the switch from EOModeler to Cayenne Modeler. I am very much aware that making such a tool is a lot of work and appreciate it in every way. So the above points are not meant as a critic but a way to find out if Cayenne Modeler could be a successor tool for us. I am also a bit unsure for what tasks exactly Cayenne Modeler is really meant?
Its role is to model the database for users of Cayenne. However, if you want to use it as a more general modeling tool, we would be happy to accept contributions which make it more useful in that regard. Additional meta-data such as notes, colours, etc have long been on our todo list but need someone to step forward with a specific need and the time to implement it.
Ari Maniatis
--
-------------------------->
Aristedes Maniatis
GPG fingerprint CBFB 84B4 738D 4E87 5E5C 5EFA EF6A 7D2E 3E49 102A
Re: [ann] Apache Cayenne 3.1 goes beta
Posted by "Robert Huber @ 7r" <ro...@sunrise.ch>.
Hello Andrus
Thanks a lot for the new release 3B2 which was the reason to try Cayenne Modeler again.
We currently use EOModeler for all of our modelling tasks. Having tried Cayenne Modeler only a little bit several times, I started seriously again with this build and your getting started guide an built the Artist - Gallery project to see if Cayenne Modeler could now be a successor for EOModeler.
But I assume I have some general understanding problems.
I would very much appreciate if you could demystify some of them. Thank you a lot for your answers or hints in advance.
Task
– In EOModeler, the task is to model an ER-Model. For example, I create an entity, add attributes and relationships between entities. I then can add column names and other implementation details as column width, type, … So I make in one place the ER-Model and the mapping to the relational model.
– In Cayenne Modeler, it seems, one has to start with the implementation side, i. e. the relational model side, and then somehow create the ER-Model? So one is not exactly starting with modeling, but wit the implementation?
Some Observations/Questions
→ Is this the intended procedure? Why doesn't it start on the modelling side, i. e. the defining of entities (classes) with their attributes etc.? And then allowing to map it to the relational model.
→ The splitting between the tables and classes seems quite complicate to me, especially with the create ObjEntity and syncing between the two «models». May be there is a reason for this separation and syncing which I don't recognize?
→ When creating an ObjEntity from an DBEntity (table), the name of the ObjEntity is in plural, whereas a common naming is singular for the entity, e. g. Artist (as it is a set), and plural for the table, e. g. artists. Unfortunatly (for me), the ObjEntity is also plural. I found it can be overridden, but if one presses the green C button again, an new ObjEntity in plural is created beside the existing in singular.
→ The primary key attributes are not displayed in the ObjEntity. Why not? It is displayed in the
→ The column name exists in ObjEntity as DbAttribute, and in the DbEntity (table) as column name, i. e. it is in two places, but can only be edited in the DbEntity, not in the ObjEntity
→ Naming in Cayenne Modeler its very strange for me, as many things seem mixed. For the ERM side (P.P.S. Cheng) I would have expected terms like entity, attribute, relationship, sub type, super type, … and for the relational model (F. Codd) I would have expected terms like table (relation), column, domain, …
→ If I organize the ER Diagram and Class graphs as I like, it is set to some default (even depending on the window size) after reopening the project. If I organize the ER Diagram, it should absolutely keep it's layout. I think this is a necessity for larger models.
→ I miss the ability to place some sort of text box in the ER Diagram and to give a self defined color to the entity (class) or table.
→ I did not find EOPrototypes, a great concept for applying DB types for quickly porting a model to a new database. I really have problems if this is not available.
As I would primarily use the Cayenne Modeler (as we work with Servoy, we will not use the Cayenne Framework), I am at the moment not comfortable to make the switch from EOModeler to Cayenne Modeler. I am very much aware that making such a tool is a lot of work and appreciate it in every way. So the above points are not meant as a critic but a way to find out if Cayenne Modeler could be a successor tool for us. I am also a bit unsure for what tasks exactly Cayenne Modeler is really meant?
Thanks and best regards, Robert
_/ _/ _/ _/ _/ r. huber
_/
_/ _/ _/ 7r gmbh
_/ _/ _/ alpenstrasse 93
_/ _// ch-8200 schaffhausen
_/ _/
_/ _/ tel. +41 52 624 81 15 www.seven-r.ch
On 12.06.2012, at 13:17, Andrus Adamchik wrote:
> Very happy to announce Cayenne 3.1 beta! The full announcement can be found here:
>
> http://cayenne.apache.org/2012/06/12/cayenne-31-beta-released.html
>
> Download is here of course:
>
> http://cayenne.apache.org/download.html
>
> A note on 3.1 documentation. The new PDF guides shipped with the download document all the new features, and some of the old ones. However they are still work in progress. I suggest still checking the PDFs, as they are the only source of information on the DI, configuration properties and the new way to start Cayenne runtime, but go back to 3.0 HTML docs whenever you find a gaping hole in the PDF:
>
> http://cayenne.apache.org/doc30/overview.html
>
> We should finish the docs by the time 3.1 is final.
>
> Cheers,
> Andrus