[DISCUSS] [VOTE] Graduation of Apache Spark from the Incubator (was Re: [VOTE] Graduation of Apache Spark from the Incubator)

[Chris Mattmann <ma...@apache.org>]

Hi Bertrand,

(changing this to DISCUSS thread to avoid continuing hijacking
the VOTE thread)

Of Spark's IPMC direct mentorship, 5 of the 7 mentors
have all VOTEd for its graduation:

Chris Mattmann
Andrew Hart
Henry Saputra

Roman Shaposhnik
Suresh Marru

Still waiting on +1s from:

Paul Ramirez
Thomas Dudziak

That's 71% of Spark's IPMC mentors have already VOTEd +1
for this project to graduate.

Note also the 12 +1s from other members of the IPMC.

Sebastian Schelter 

Jean-Baptiste Onofré
Ted Dunning
Patrick Hunt
Chris Douglas
Alan Cabrera
Jake Ferrell
Leif Hedstrom 
Sergio Fernández 
Sebastian Schelter 
Marvin Humphrey
Alex Karasulu 

Further note that there are over 34 community +1s for this project.

Of the 3 IPMC -1s:

Bertrand Delacretaz
Craig Russell
sebb

Bertrand, you originally VOTEd +1 until Craig mentioned his concerns
about accounts not having been filed. Matei and others immediately
stepped up (including myself), and explained the situation, and
filed the accounts. Sebb's concerns were originally related to the
resolution and mix of Apache ids/other mail Ids, etc.

If you are suggesting in some thinly veiled way that the
board is going to reject both the overwhelming majority of the
direct paying attention mentors to the project; along with majority
of other members of the IPMC; along with the members of the community who
also 
recommended its graduation, because a minority of IPMC members
and others identified issues with people having their accounts,
or some others with the use of Git, and/or accusations of not
all conversation making it to the list, considering all of the
positive things that goes on in Spark, or the 100s of messages
PER day that make it to the list, along with conversation and
great work and Apache mentality that's being demonstrated by
their developers, then I'm disappointed and frankly, I disagree
and let's put it to a VOTE at the board level. I'll be there,
ready and willing to discuss this with real data and not innuendo,
along with the real history of watching the awesomeness of this project
and all of the things they have gotten right about the Apache
community.

Cheers,
Chris


-----Original Message-----
From: Bertrand Delacretaz <bd...@apache.org>
Reply-To: "general@incubator.apache.org" <ge...@incubator.apache.org>
Date: Friday, February 7, 2014 5:12 AM
To: Incubator General <ge...@incubator.apache.org>
Subject: Re: [VOTE] Graduation of Apache Spark from the Incubator

>On Fri, Feb 7, 2014 at 4:05 AM, David Nalley <da...@gnsa.us> wrote:
>> ...The part that disturbs me is that after the vote passed in the
>> community, and came to the IPMC a mentor is still having to remind
>> folks that things like strategy and roadmap discussions need to happen
>> on the mailing list...
>
>Yes - considering the worrying aspects that this thread brought to the
>surface, I would recommend that the Spark mentors take another look
>and make a solid case to demonstrate that the project is actually
>ready to graduate.
>
>Remember that the Incubator PMC's vote is only about *recommending*
>that the board accepts the incoming project, if there's no strong
>consensus I'd assume that the board is likely to reject the resolution
>until that strong consensus for graduation is established here.
>
>-Bertrand
>
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Re: [DISCUSS] [VOTE] Graduation of Apache Spark from the Incubator (was Re: [VOTE] Graduation of Apache Spark from the Incubator)

[Chris Mattmann <ma...@apache.org>]

Thanks Bertrand, for your feedback and as I have mentioned, we filed
the account requests, and have explained from the community perspective
the issues at hand (Matei has done so grandly in the last day and
don't have time now to look up the exact thread pointer but look
for some replies by Matei over the past day or so). Furthermore,
there have been some great recent replies from IPMC members as of
last night that summarize my overall feeling with the podling as
well.

BTW, your comment below about "very wrong list of PMC members", I
take exception to and disagree with. It wasn't a wrong list -- it's
that some people in that list had not completed the due diligence
to obtain their Apache accounts (though in all cases but 1, for
Kay, ICLAs had been filed and that has now been remedied). This is
no fault of the members of that PPMC -- it was an oversight on my
part and the other mentors part; I take full responsibility for
that. However, I will make it very clear that the issue
was caught, and now it's been dealt with and is in the process of
being dealt with. Once the account requests I filed are complete,
all of those members on that list will have Apache accounts, but
more importantly ICLAs on file.

Trusting the mentors too much isn't a bad thing by the way. I myself
have done this. You have to be able to mix precision with recall
in these situations and you have to have people like Craig and/or
sebb that can catch things -- very valuable tools to catch even
when mentors like myself miss some of the details. You know, being
a Director; a Treasurer; combined with all the list of other things
I do? ;)

Regardless, like I said, the issues are being dealt with -- the
facts have been stated by me below with pure numbers and data that
again show an overwhelming majority of IPMC mentors for Spark; of
IPMC members who VOTED in the graduation VOTE; along with community
members have VOTEd to graduate this project, and to recommend its
graduation to the board.  I am going to still leave this VOTE open
until Monday in the hopes that seeing the diligence performed by
the Spark community in the face of these discussions and the very
real need to address the raised issues are precisely the spirit of
the Apache way and the communities that we grow here and that those
acts change the mind of the minority who issued their -1s.

Beyond that, I am not going to leave the VOTE open indefinitely,
and I am not going to concern myself with what-ifs at the board
level. The facts are here. The discussion is here. Neither change
the very real fact that Spark deserves TLP status, and I wholeheartedly
recommend its graduation to the board; as do the other IPMC members;
community members, and others cited in the data I gathered below.

Cheers, 
Chris



-----Original Message-----
From: Bertrand Delacretaz <bd...@apache.org>
Reply-To: "general@incubator.apache.org" <ge...@incubator.apache.org>
Date: Friday, February 7, 2014 7:35 AM
To: Incubator General <ge...@incubator.apache.org>
Subject: Re: [DISCUSS] [VOTE] Graduation of Apache Spark from the
Incubator (was Re: [VOTE] Graduation of Apache Spark from the Incubator)

>Hi Chris,
>
>On Fri, Feb 7, 2014 at 4:20 PM, Chris Mattmann <ma...@apache.org>
>wrote:
>>... Bertrand, you originally VOTEd +1 until Craig mentioned his concerns
>> about accounts not having been filed. Matei and others immediately
>> stepped up (including myself), and explained the situation, and
>> filed the accounts. Sebb's concerns were originally related to the
>> resolution and mix of Apache ids/other mail Ids, etc....
>
>Fact is, the mentors let the resolution go through with a very wrong
>list of PMC members. Which I didn't spot either at first...trusting
>the mentors too much maybe? ;-)
>
>And the discussions in the vote thread show some worrying
>uncertainties about the project's readyness to graduate. I have not
>analyzed everything in detail so far, maybe everything's clear if one
>rereads the full thread. But the perception is here.
>
>> ...If you are suggesting in some thinly veiled way that the
>> board is going to reject both the overwhelming majority of the
>> direct paying attention mentors to the project; along with majority
>> of other members of the IPMC; along with the members of the community
>>who
>> also
>> recommended its graduation...
>
>There was nothing behind my comment that the board can reject a
>graduation resolution - suggesting things in some thinly veiled way is
>not my style.
>
>It's just that a board member who hasn't followed the project or the
>details of this discussion, but knows that the vote thread here raised
>lots of questions, might very well recommend to reject the resolution
>until everything's clear.
>
>So, my recommendation is that mentors identify and address the
>concerns raised in the vote thread in a way that reassures us that the
>project is indeed ready to graduate. Maybe just as some concise
>comments in the vote thread once the updated the Spark resolution is
>fixed.
>
>-Bertrand
>
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Re: [DISCUSS] [VOTE] Graduation of Apache Spark from the Incubator (was Re: [VOTE] Graduation of Apache Spark from the Incubator)

[Bertrand Delacretaz <bd...@apache.org>]

Hi Chris,

On Fri, Feb 7, 2014 at 4:20 PM, Chris Mattmann <ma...@apache.org> wrote:
>... Bertrand, you originally VOTEd +1 until Craig mentioned his concerns
> about accounts not having been filed. Matei and others immediately
> stepped up (including myself), and explained the situation, and
> filed the accounts. Sebb's concerns were originally related to the
> resolution and mix of Apache ids/other mail Ids, etc....

Fact is, the mentors let the resolution go through with a very wrong
list of PMC members. Which I didn't spot either at first...trusting
the mentors too much maybe? ;-)

And the discussions in the vote thread show some worrying
uncertainties about the project's readyness to graduate. I have not
analyzed everything in detail so far, maybe everything's clear if one
rereads the full thread. But the perception is here.

> ...If you are suggesting in some thinly veiled way that the
> board is going to reject both the overwhelming majority of the
> direct paying attention mentors to the project; along with majority
> of other members of the IPMC; along with the members of the community who
> also
> recommended its graduation...

There was nothing behind my comment that the board can reject a
graduation resolution - suggesting things in some thinly veiled way is
not my style.

It's just that a board member who hasn't followed the project or the
details of this discussion, but knows that the vote thread here raised
lots of questions, might very well recommend to reject the resolution
until everything's clear.

So, my recommendation is that mentors identify and address the
concerns raised in the vote thread in a way that reassures us that the
project is indeed ready to graduate. Maybe just as some concise
comments in the vote thread once the updated the Spark resolution is
fixed.

-Bertrand

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