the new and improved avalon-framework build

[Leo Simons <le...@apache.org>]

Hey gang (Steve),

- I've copied the main framework source tree over the sandbox ones so 
that we have history. I'll do that again before overriding the main tree 
with the one from sandbox.

- I hope to have figured out how to integrate gump and the new package 
in avalon-sandbox/framework; we'll see if it works tonight

- the new package does not generate a combined avalon-framework.jar. I 
tried modifying maven.xml to make it do just that but things are failing 
for misty reasons. I know it can be done relatively cleanly:

http://cvs.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/viewcvs.cgi/jicarilla/jicarilla-sandbox/platform/framework/maven.xml
http://cvs.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/viewcvs.cgi/jicarilla/jicarilla-sandbox/platform/maven.xml

...its just not working with the existing maven.xml file. Could you take 
a look at getting a combined jar build in place?

- LSD



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Re: the new and improved avalon-framework build

[Niclas Hedhman <ni...@hedhman.org>]

On Tuesday 09 September 2003 16:29, Leo Simons wrote:
> > Lets disucss some more the rationale for doing this.  My point is that
> > it is (a) not needed, and (b) a negative value proposition.
>
> my point is that it is
>
> (a) pragmatic
> (b) needed in applications that import the 'avalon-framework' logical
> extension package and expect to find both api and impl
> (c) we've been over this before and decided it was a good idea; nothing
> significant has changed since then so it is pointless to revisit old
> arguments
> (d) needed (see above)

Agree. Documentation says api/impl, but combined supported for historic 
reasons. Shouldn't be such a big deal (compared to NB that does bytecode 
alterations and all kind of hocus-pokus (perhaps to ensure employment) to be 
binary compatible when APIs changes).

Niclas

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Re: the new and improved avalon-framework build

[Leo Simons <le...@apache.org>]

Stephen McConnell wrote:
> Leo Simons wrote:
>> - I hope to have figured out how to integrate gump and the new package 
>> in avalon-sandbox/framework; we'll see if it works tonight

http://cvs.apache.org/builds/gump/latest/avalon-framework-sandbox.html

seems to be working.

>> - the new package does not generate a combined avalon-framework.jar.
> 
> I belive that the idea of generating a combined 
> avalon-framework-<version>.jar file should *only* be done for legacy 
> gump builds.

I disagree. I find the combined jar useful. As do countless other 
people. Back when we first discussed api/impl seperation it was agreed 
that we would also support a combined version.

Oh, and there is no such thing as "legacy gump". Gump is the 
latest-and-greatest-of-everything, by definition. If anything, the fact 
that many gump projects depend on the combined jar rather than the api 
and/or impl jar is an indication that the jar is still needed and in 
common use.

> Lets disucss some more the rationale for doing this.  My point is that 
> it is (a) not needed, and (b) a negative value proposition.

my point is that it is

(a) pragmatic
(b) needed in applications that import the 'avalon-framework' logical 
extension package and expect to find both api and impl
(c) we've been over this before and decided it was a good idea; nothing 
significant has changed since then so it is pointless to revisit old 
arguments
(d) needed (see above)

cheers,

- Leo



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Re: the new and improved avalon-framework build

[Stephen McConnell <mc...@apache.org>]

Leo Simons wrote:

> Hey gang (Steve),
>
> - I've copied the main framework source tree over the sandbox ones so 
> that we have history. I'll do that again before overriding the main 
> tree with the one from sandbox.


Yep - I'm now updated and in sync.

>
> - I hope to have figured out how to integrate gump and the new package 
> in avalon-sandbox/framework; we'll see if it works tonight
>
> - the new package does not generate a combined avalon-framework.jar. I 
> tried modifying maven.xml to make it do just that but things are 
> failing for misty reasons.


I belive that the idea of generating a combined 
avalon-framework-<version>.jar file should *only* be done for legacy 
gump builds.  We should *not* distribute or maintain a combined build.  
The user community can either update to include the api and impl jars, 
or stay with 4.1.4 combined jar.  The reason for saying this is that the 
inclusion of implementation classes is a really limiting factor.  You 
are forced to drag in implementation dependendencies that are in fact 
not required in your runtime - and this just creates a situation where 
you have more to maintain and worry about than if you would if you 
followed the principals of seperation.

> I know it can be done relatively cleanly:
>
> http://cvs.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/viewcvs.cgi/jicarilla/jicarilla-sandbox/platform/framework/maven.xml 
>
> http://cvs.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/viewcvs.cgi/jicarilla/jicarilla-sandbox/platform/maven.xml 
>
>
> ...its just not working with the existing maven.xml file. Could you 
> take a look at getting a combined jar build in place? 



Lets disucss some more the rationale for doing this.  My point is that 
it is (a) not needed, and (b) a negative value proposition.

Steve.

>
>
> - LSD
>
>
>
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>

-- 

Stephen J. McConnell
mailto:mcconnell@apache.org

Sent via James running under Merlin as an NT service.
http://avalon.apache.org/sandbox/merlin




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