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Posted to doc@openoffice.apache.org by "Keith N. McKenna" <ke...@comcast.net> on 2013/03/07 05:24:26 UTC
Use of Ricardo's Status page.
Evening All;
With the recent call for volunteers starting to attract new people it is
time that we start keeping closer tabs on what has been done on the User
Guides.
Ricardo put together a page a while back to help with this (thank you
Ricardo) and think it is time we start making better use of it. I have
added most of what I have done so far to it and I see a few others have
also. If others can also fill in what the have done we will be further
along on understanding where we are and what needs to be done.
If this is not done, I see no other alternative then to have to redo
work that ma have already been done, thus slowing down the overall effort.
I thank you for taking the time to update the page with your work. The
page can be found here:
http://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/Documentation/UserGuide/Status
Regards
Keith
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Re: Response to follow-up e-mails Was Re: Use of Ricardo's Status page.
Posted by Guy Waterval <wa...@gmail.com>.
Hi Keith,
Hi all,
2013/5/9 Keith N. McKenna <ke...@comcast.net>
> Edwin Sharp wrote:
>
>> Volunteers need personal guidance from more experienced volunteers.
>>
>> It is easy to give up trying to figure out what to do on your own.
>>
>> Endless nested emails don't help.
>>
>> Volunteers should be given levels according to their time in the
>> project.
>>
>> So a level three is guiding level two, level two is guiding level
>> one etc.
>>
>> When a fresh volunteer joins, the head of the project is assigning
>> him a personal tutor.
>>
>> With a close guidance, learning, confidence and motivation are much
>> better.
>>
>>
> Edwin;
>
> The ideas are very good. The question is one of manpower and knowledge.
> At the momnt we do not have active volunteers with knowledge in tech
> writing and publishing processes to do the tutoring and hand holding. If
> you have any ideas on how we can recruit people at that level we would
> love to hear them.
>
Amha, some people with the required skills are already present in the list.
But they are perhaps always active in their professional life and don't
have the available time to do the job. So, these people could perhaps be
more available for punctual tasks.
Why not try to find directly retired people who have been worked in this
area, retired journalists, etc. They could perhaps accept to coach and
organize le project on a more global manner, if they have more available
time.
Only a thought
A+
--
gw
>
>
Re: Response to follow-up e-mails Was Re: Use of Ricardo's Status
page.
Posted by "Keith N. McKenna" <ke...@comcast.net>.
Edwin Sharp wrote:
> Volunteers need personal guidance from more experienced volunteers.
>
> It is easy to give up trying to figure out what to do on your own.
>
> Endless nested emails don't help.
>
> Volunteers should be given levels according to their time in the
> project.
>
> So a level three is guiding level two, level two is guiding level
> one etc.
>
> When a fresh volunteer joins, the head of the project is assigning
> him a personal tutor.
>
> With a close guidance, learning, confidence and motivation are much
> better.
>
Edwin;
The ideas are very good. The question is one of manpower and knowledge.
At the momnt we do not have active volunteers with knowledge in tech
writing and publishing processes to do the tutoring and hand holding. If
you have any ideas on how we can recruit people at that level we would
love to hear them.
Regards
Keith
>
>
> On Mon, Apr 29, 2013, at 15:55, Rob Weir wrote:
>
>>
>
>> I don't know if anyone counted, but it seemed like we
>
>> had 15 or more people volunteer to help. But of the offers of
>> help,
>
>> not many ultimately contributed.
>
>>
>
>> Why is this so?
>
>>
>
>> Regards,
>
>>
>
>> -Rob
>
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Re: Response to follow-up e-mails Was Re: Use of Ricardo's Status page.
Posted by Edwin Sharp <el...@mail-page.com>.
On Thu, May 9, 2013, at 18:11, Rob Weir wrote:
> We're talking about a corporate way of working, where someone assigns you
> items.
There is no other way.
A corporate has financial resources and abundance, we don't.
We can not afford two people doing the same task at the same time.
We can not afford an inexperienced volunteer wasting precious time on a task a more experienced volunteer will complete in no time.
We can not afford an important task ignored because it seems dull to the volunteers.
We must be as efficient as possible.
> I wonder if we just need to take the next step, and suggest
> specific items for new volunteers from that list?
>
> Regards,
>
> -Rob
Yes please.
Some people feel uncomfortable doing things unannounced. I know I do.
Guidance and Feedback. That's what volunteers need.
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RE: Response to follow-up e-mails Was Re: Use of Ricardo's Status page.
Posted by "Dennis E. Hamilton" <de...@acm.org>.
+1
I think gentle mentoring will be very useful for newcomers, since there is considerable tacit lore that needs to be grasped before taking bigger steps. This seems to apply for documentation as well as for working on the code, since there are toolcraft requirements as well as practices to become fluent with.
- Dennis
-----Original Message-----
From: Rob Weir [mailto:robweir@apache.org]
Sent: Thursday, May 09, 2013 08:11
To: doc@openoffice.apache.org
Subject: Re: Response to follow-up e-mails Was Re: Use of Ricardo's Status page.
On Wed, May 8, 2013 at 9:48 PM, Keith N. McKenna
[ ... ]
> We definitely need more hand holding, but where are the people with the
> time, inclination and knowledge to do it?
>
I think even a little would help. For example, with QA we found it
valuable to give new volunteers "assignments" when they started, until
they were more familiar with the tools and process, and then they were
able to select their own items to work on. We could do something
similar. For example, a new volunteer joins the list and we say,
"We're working on AOO 4.0 documentation on the wiki now. We have
plenty of editing and review work available. Would you be able to do
a <technical review of this chapter here> or <copyediting of these
chapters> or <some other well-defined task>?
I know this seems a little odd, and I resisted it at first. We're
talking about a corporate way of working, where someone assigns you
items. But that is how almost every charity works. If I show up at a
homeless shelter and offer to volunteer, they don't just let me roam
the building, trying to find stuff that needs to be done. They have a
"volunteer coordinator" who talks to me initially, figures out what
skills I have, and then assigns me some items to work on. I don't
mind, because my goal is help. I'm looking for a meaningful way to
contribute. The volunteer coordinator does not impose by giving me an
assignment. She helps me achieve my goals of contributing.
So it is great that we have the wiki to track the work that needs to
be done. I wonder if we just need to take the next step, and suggest
specific items for new volunteers from that list?
Regards,
-Rob
[ ... ]
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Re: Response to follow-up e-mails Was Re: Use of Ricardo's Status page.
Posted by Rob Weir <ro...@apache.org>.
On Wed, May 8, 2013 at 9:48 PM, Keith N. McKenna
<ke...@comcast.net> wrote:
> <snip>
>
>>>>
>>> On 2013-04-09 I sent the following reminder to all individuals that had
>>> expressed interest in working on documentation but had not yet signed up
>>> for
>>> the mailing list:
>>>
>>>> You recently expressed interest in working on documentation for
>>>> ApacheOpenOffice. To date you have not signed up for our mailing list
>>>> which is
>>>
>>>
>>> where we discuss everything having to do with documentation for the
>>> project.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Currently we are concentrating on user guides for Version 4.0 and we
>>>
>>>
>>> need help of all sorts for these.If you are still interested please
>>> subscribe to the mailing list by sending a blank e-mail to
>>> mailto:doc-subscribe@openoffice.apache.org and follow the instructions
>>> in the return email or for those that prefer using nntp instead set your
>>> news reader to news.gmane.org and subscribe to
>>> gmane.comp.apache.openoffice.doc and join us.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Regards Keith McKenna
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> To date I have had no replies. If one of our moderators could check and
>>> see
>>> if we have had an increase from the 63 registered users that were on the
>>> list that Dave Barton sent me on 2013-03-26 it would be greatly
>>> appreciated.
>>>
>>> It is to say the least disheartening to look at the status page and see
>>> the
>>> same few names as doing all the work both writing (Ricardo) and editing.
>>>
>>> As a group we need to work towards finding ways to motivate others to
>>> become
>>> more active and to recruit new members, especially those with knowledge
>>> of
>>> Calc, Impress and Base who can start writing the Guides for those
>>> applications.
>>>
>>
>> Some thoughts on this.
>>
>> We were successful in getting many offers of help. We did that by
>> putting a message on the www.openoffice.org home page, linking to a
>> blog post, etc. I don't know if anyone counted, but it seemed like we
>> had 15 or more people volunteer to help. But of the offers of help,
>> not many ultimately contributed.
>>
>> Why is this so?
>>
>> Did we call for volunteers too early, before we had enough structure
>> in the documentation tasks?
>>
> This is very possible. I do not believe that we have near enough structure
> now.
>
>
>> Do few people actually know OpenOffice well-enough to author new
>> documentation topics?
>>
> I think this is a part of it. Another part is that some of those that have
> the expertise do not like the wiki format where anyone can edit the page and
> take it in a completely different direction.
>
>
>> Do we need more hand-holding and feedback for new volunteers as they
>> get started?
>>
>
> We definitely need more hand holding, but where are the people with the
> time, inclination and knowledge to do it?
>
I think even a little would help. For example, with QA we found it
valuable to give new volunteers "assignments" when they started, until
they were more familiar with the tools and process, and then they were
able to select their own items to work on. We could do something
similar. For example, a new volunteer joins the list and we say,
"We're working on AOO 4.0 documentation on the wiki now. We have
plenty of editing and review work available. Would you be able to do
a <technical review of this chapter here> or <copyediting of these
chapters> or <some other well-defined task>?
I know this seems a little odd, and I resisted it at first. We're
talking about a corporate way of working, where someone assigns you
items. But that is how almost every charity works. If I show up at a
homeless shelter and offer to volunteer, they don't just let me roam
the building, trying to find stuff that needs to be done. They have a
"volunteer coordinator" who talks to me initially, figures out what
skills I have, and then assigns me some items to work on. I don't
mind, because my goal is help. I'm looking for a meaningful way to
contribute. The volunteer coordinator does not impose by giving me an
assignment. She helps me achieve my goals of contributing.
So it is great that we have the wiki to track the work that needs to
be done. I wonder if we just need to take the next step, and suggest
specific items for new volunteers from that list?
Regards,
-Rob
>
>> It is very easy for us to renew the call for volunteers. I'm sure we
>> could get another 15-20 offers of help. But before we do that it
>> would be good to understand what we could do differently. Otherwise
>> we'll get similar results, right?
>>
>
> I am afraid all that renewing the call for volunteers will accomplish at
> this point is to add to the frustration level.
>
>
>> Idea: In the commercial world the people who write the documentation
>> do not start with product expertise. They need to learn that. So new
>> writers start by taking training classes, reading existing
>> documentation, etc. Their training is often similar or identical to
>> what technical support representatives go through. Then for new
>> features they learn about these by interviewing the developers, asking
>> them questions. Or in some cases there might be a design
>> specification they can work from. I could imagine that talking to
>> experienced users could also be helpful.
>>
>> In other words, if new volunteers do not have the product expertise
>> that Ricardo has, then we need to suggest some ways that they can
>> develop that. Otherwise new volunteers will be limited, at least
>> initially, to reviewing drafts.
>>
>
> Rob, right now I would be ecstatic if we had people doing that. If you look
> at the status page You will see Ricardo's name as author, mine as and one of
> two others as proofreading, and mine as doing a technical review.
>
> Right now I believe the documentation effort as a whole is suffering from
> the lack of people who are knowledgeable in technical writing and the
> processes and tasks that go along with that.
>
> Let me go off and think a bit more about what else we can do to move the
> documentation effort along.
>
> Regards
> Keith
>
>> Regards,
>>
>> -Rob
>>
>>
>>> Regards
>>> Keith
>>>
>>>
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>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: doc-unsubscribe@openoffice.apache.org
>>> For additional commands, e-mail: doc-help@openoffice.apache.org
>>>
>
>
>
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>
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RE: Response to follow-up e-mails Was Re: Use of Ricardo's Status page.
Posted by Jane Agnew <ja...@ontera.net>.
Hi Keith
It seems my name and e-mail were erroneously linked
to the openoffice doc volunteers list. I am a biochemist
and artist. If I can help in these areas I am more than happy to do so.
Thank you
Jane Agnew
-----Original Message-----
From: Keith N. McKenna [mailto:keith.mckenna@comcast.net]
Sent: May 8, 2013 9:49 PM
To: doc@openoffice.apache.org
Subject: Re: Response to follow-up e-mails Was Re: Use of Ricardo's
Status page.
<snip>
>>>
>> On 2013-04-09 I sent the following reminder to all individuals that
had
>> expressed interest in working on documentation but had not yet signed
up for
>> the mailing list:
>>
>>> You recently expressed interest in working on documentation for
>>> ApacheOpenOffice. To date you have not signed up for our mailing
list
>>> which is
>>
>> where we discuss everything having to do with documentation for the
project.
>>>
>>>
>>> Currently we are concentrating on user guides for Version 4.0 and we
>>
>> need help of all sorts for these.If you are still interested please
>> subscribe to the mailing list by sending a blank e-mail to
>> mailto:doc-subscribe@openoffice.apache.org and follow the
instructions
>> in the return email or for those that prefer using nntp instead set
your
>> news reader to news.gmane.org and subscribe to
>> gmane.comp.apache.openoffice.doc and join us.
>>>
>>>
>>> Regards Keith McKenna
>>
>>
>> To date I have had no replies. If one of our moderators could check
and see
>> if we have had an increase from the 63 registered users that were on
the
>> list that Dave Barton sent me on 2013-03-26 it would be greatly
appreciated.
>>
>> It is to say the least disheartening to look at the status page and
see the
>> same few names as doing all the work both writing (Ricardo) and
editing.
>>
>> As a group we need to work towards finding ways to motivate others to
become
>> more active and to recruit new members, especially those with
knowledge of
>> Calc, Impress and Base who can start writing the Guides for those
>> applications.
>>
>
> Some thoughts on this.
>
> We were successful in getting many offers of help. We did that by
> putting a message on the www.openoffice.org home page, linking to a
> blog post, etc. I don't know if anyone counted, but it seemed like we
> had 15 or more people volunteer to help. But of the offers of help,
> not many ultimately contributed.
>
> Why is this so?
>
> Did we call for volunteers too early, before we had enough structure
> in the documentation tasks?
>
This is very possible. I do not believe that we have near enough
structure now.
> Do few people actually know OpenOffice well-enough to author new
> documentation topics?
>
I think this is a part of it. Another part is that some of those that
have the expertise do not like the wiki format where anyone can edit the
page and take it in a completely different direction.
> Do we need more hand-holding and feedback for new volunteers as they
> get started?
>
We definitely need more hand holding, but where are the people with the
time, inclination and knowledge to do it?
> It is very easy for us to renew the call for volunteers. I'm sure we
> could get another 15-20 offers of help. But before we do that it
> would be good to understand what we could do differently. Otherwise
> we'll get similar results, right?
>
I am afraid all that renewing the call for volunteers will accomplish at
this point is to add to the frustration level.
> Idea: In the commercial world the people who write the documentation
> do not start with product expertise. They need to learn that. So new
> writers start by taking training classes, reading existing
> documentation, etc. Their training is often similar or identical to
> what technical support representatives go through. Then for new
> features they learn about these by interviewing the developers, asking
> them questions. Or in some cases there might be a design
> specification they can work from. I could imagine that talking to
> experienced users could also be helpful.
>
> In other words, if new volunteers do not have the product expertise
> that Ricardo has, then we need to suggest some ways that they can
> develop that. Otherwise new volunteers will be limited, at least
> initially, to reviewing drafts.
>
Rob, right now I would be ecstatic if we had people doing that. If you
look at the status page You will see Ricardo's name as author, mine as
and one of two others as proofreading, and mine as doing a technical
review.
Right now I believe the documentation effort as a whole is suffering
from the lack of people who are knowledgeable in technical writing and
the processes and tasks that go along with that.
Let me go off and think a bit more about what else we can do to move the
documentation effort along.
Regards
Keith
> Regards,
>
> -Rob
>
>
>> Regards
>> Keith
>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: doc-unsubscribe@openoffice.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: doc-help@openoffice.apache.org
>>
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Re: Response to follow-up e-mails Was Re: Use of Ricardo's Status
page.
Posted by "Keith N. McKenna" <ke...@comcast.net>.
<snip>
>>>
>> On 2013-04-09 I sent the following reminder to all individuals that had
>> expressed interest in working on documentation but had not yet signed up for
>> the mailing list:
>>
>>> You recently expressed interest in working on documentation for
>>> ApacheOpenOffice. To date you have not signed up for our mailing list
>>> which is
>>
>> where we discuss everything having to do with documentation for the project.
>>>
>>>
>>> Currently we are concentrating on user guides for Version 4.0 and we
>>
>> need help of all sorts for these.If you are still interested please
>> subscribe to the mailing list by sending a blank e-mail to
>> mailto:doc-subscribe@openoffice.apache.org and follow the instructions
>> in the return email or for those that prefer using nntp instead set your
>> news reader to news.gmane.org and subscribe to
>> gmane.comp.apache.openoffice.doc and join us.
>>>
>>>
>>> Regards Keith McKenna
>>
>>
>> To date I have had no replies. If one of our moderators could check and see
>> if we have had an increase from the 63 registered users that were on the
>> list that Dave Barton sent me on 2013-03-26 it would be greatly appreciated.
>>
>> It is to say the least disheartening to look at the status page and see the
>> same few names as doing all the work both writing (Ricardo) and editing.
>>
>> As a group we need to work towards finding ways to motivate others to become
>> more active and to recruit new members, especially those with knowledge of
>> Calc, Impress and Base who can start writing the Guides for those
>> applications.
>>
>
> Some thoughts on this.
>
> We were successful in getting many offers of help. We did that by
> putting a message on the www.openoffice.org home page, linking to a
> blog post, etc. I don't know if anyone counted, but it seemed like we
> had 15 or more people volunteer to help. But of the offers of help,
> not many ultimately contributed.
>
> Why is this so?
>
> Did we call for volunteers too early, before we had enough structure
> in the documentation tasks?
>
This is very possible. I do not believe that we have near enough
structure now.
> Do few people actually know OpenOffice well-enough to author new
> documentation topics?
>
I think this is a part of it. Another part is that some of those that
have the expertise do not like the wiki format where anyone can edit the
page and take it in a completely different direction.
> Do we need more hand-holding and feedback for new volunteers as they
> get started?
>
We definitely need more hand holding, but where are the people with the
time, inclination and knowledge to do it?
> It is very easy for us to renew the call for volunteers. I'm sure we
> could get another 15-20 offers of help. But before we do that it
> would be good to understand what we could do differently. Otherwise
> we'll get similar results, right?
>
I am afraid all that renewing the call for volunteers will accomplish at
this point is to add to the frustration level.
> Idea: In the commercial world the people who write the documentation
> do not start with product expertise. They need to learn that. So new
> writers start by taking training classes, reading existing
> documentation, etc. Their training is often similar or identical to
> what technical support representatives go through. Then for new
> features they learn about these by interviewing the developers, asking
> them questions. Or in some cases there might be a design
> specification they can work from. I could imagine that talking to
> experienced users could also be helpful.
>
> In other words, if new volunteers do not have the product expertise
> that Ricardo has, then we need to suggest some ways that they can
> develop that. Otherwise new volunteers will be limited, at least
> initially, to reviewing drafts.
>
Rob, right now I would be ecstatic if we had people doing that. If you
look at the status page You will see Ricardo's name as author, mine as
and one of two others as proofreading, and mine as doing a technical review.
Right now I believe the documentation effort as a whole is suffering
from the lack of people who are knowledgeable in technical writing and
the processes and tasks that go along with that.
Let me go off and think a bit more about what else we can do to move the
documentation effort along.
Regards
Keith
> Regards,
>
> -Rob
>
>
>> Regards
>> Keith
>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: doc-unsubscribe@openoffice.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: doc-help@openoffice.apache.org
>>
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Re: Response to follow-up e-mails Was Re: Use of Ricardo's Status page.
Posted by Rob Weir <ro...@apache.org>.
On Mon, Apr 29, 2013 at 3:32 PM, Hans-Peter Carpenter
<th...@netscape.net> wrote:
> On 04/29/2013 08:00 PM, Edwin Sharp wrote:
>>
>> Volunteers need personal guidance from more experienced volunteers.
>>
>> It is easy to give up trying to figure out what to do on your own.
>>
>> Endless nested emails don't help.
>>
>> Volunteers should be given levels according to their time in the
>> project.
>>
>> So a level three is guiding level two, level two is guiding level one
>> etc.
>>
>> When a fresh volunteer joins, the head of the project is assigning him
>> a personal tutor.
>>
>> With a close guidance, learning, confidence and motivation are much
>> better.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Apr 29, 2013, at 15:55, Rob Weir wrote:
>>
>>> I don't know if anyone counted, but it seemed like we
>>> had 15 or more people volunteer to help. But of the offers of help,
>>> not many ultimately contributed.
>>> Why is this so?
>>> Regards,
>>> -Rob
>
> Hi all,
>
> Flame suit on.
>
> I have joined LibreOffice and OpenOffice at the same time, because I do not
> care about your politics/rivalry/whatever you wanna call it (if there is
> any) ... I also joined in on ODFAuthors.
>
There is absolutely no problem with contributing to more than one
project. I know of Developers, QA, Forum support, etc., who happily
contribute to both AOO and LO.
> Now, I have already contributed to LibreOffice and ODF authors. As for
> OpenOffice, I have no visibility on issues. On the LibreOffice side, the
> list asks ppl for stuff, could you check this or that, read through this
> other thing ... that is the reason why I contributed there first.
>
It may depend on when you joined the mailing list. We did have
several posts explaining how new contributors could get involved,
pointing to where on the wiki we're tracking tasks, etc. But we
should probably repost that information periodically.
> I am a bit lost, mostly because I do not understand all the differences
> between LibreOffice, OpenOffice, ODFAuthors ... ok, I know LO is a fork of
> OOo and that OOo has now become AOOo ...
>
ODFAuthors was an independent group that wrote user guides for
OpenOffice.org. But both LO and AOO now have their own documentation
efforts within the project. So it is not clear (to me at least) what
role ODFAuthors plays today, after the LO fork, and after
OpenOffice.org became Apache OpenOffice.
> I have checked out (as in svn co http://....) AOO, I have no idea where the
> doc is, what I could contribute where ... I need a little help or at least
> pointers.
>
No need to touch SVN for working with documentation. It is all on the wiki.
A good place to start is here:
http://openoffice.apache.org/orientation/intro-doc.html
Then you can see the status of items, and grab some to work on here:
http://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/Documentation/UserGuide/Status
As you see, there are a variety of tasks, authoring, proof reading,
technical review, etc.
Regards,
-Rob
> Regards,
>
> HP
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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Re: Response to follow-up e-mails Was Re: Use of Ricardo's Status
page.
Posted by Hans-Peter Carpenter <th...@netscape.net>.
On 04/29/2013 08:00 PM, Edwin Sharp wrote:
> Volunteers need personal guidance from more experienced volunteers.
>
> It is easy to give up trying to figure out what to do on your own.
>
> Endless nested emails don't help.
>
> Volunteers should be given levels according to their time in the
> project.
>
> So a level three is guiding level two, level two is guiding level one
> etc.
>
> When a fresh volunteer joins, the head of the project is assigning him
> a personal tutor.
>
> With a close guidance, learning, confidence and motivation are much
> better.
>
>
>
> On Mon, Apr 29, 2013, at 15:55, Rob Weir wrote:
>
>> I don't know if anyone counted, but it seemed like we
>> had 15 or more people volunteer to help. But of the offers of help,
>> not many ultimately contributed.
>> Why is this so?
>> Regards,
>> -Rob
Hi all,
Flame suit on.
I have joined LibreOffice and OpenOffice at the same time, because I do
not care about your politics/rivalry/whatever you wanna call it (if
there is any) ... I also joined in on ODFAuthors.
Now, I have already contributed to LibreOffice and ODF authors. As for
OpenOffice, I have no visibility on issues. On the LibreOffice side, the
list asks ppl for stuff, could you check this or that, read through this
other thing ... that is the reason why I contributed there first.
I am a bit lost, mostly because I do not understand all the differences
between LibreOffice, OpenOffice, ODFAuthors ... ok, I know LO is a fork
of OOo and that OOo has now become AOOo ...
I have checked out (as in svn co http://....) AOO, I have no idea where
the doc is, what I could contribute where ... I need a little help or at
least pointers.
Regards,
HP
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Re: Response to follow-up e-mails Was Re: Use of Ricardo's Status page.
Posted by Rob Weir <ro...@apache.org>.
On Mon, Apr 29, 2013 at 2:00 PM, Edwin Sharp <el...@mail-page.com> wrote:
> Volunteers need personal guidance from more experienced volunteers.
>
> It is easy to give up trying to figure out what to do on your own.
>
> Endless nested emails don't help.
>
> Volunteers should be given levels according to their time in the
> project.
>
> So a level three is guiding level two, level two is guiding level one
> etc.
>
> When a fresh volunteer joins, the head of the project is assigning him
> a personal tutor.
>
I like this idea.
-Rob
> With a close guidance, learning, confidence and motivation are much
> better.
>
>
>
> On Mon, Apr 29, 2013, at 15:55, Rob Weir wrote:
>
>>
>
>> I don't know if anyone counted, but it seemed like we
>
>> had 15 or more people volunteer to help. But of the offers of help,
>
>> not many ultimately contributed.
>
>>
>
>> Why is this so?
>
>>
>
>> Regards,
>
>>
>
>> -Rob
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Re: Response to follow-up e-mails Was Re: Use of Ricardo's Status page.
Posted by Edwin Sharp <el...@mail-page.com>.
Volunteers need personal guidance from more experienced volunteers.
It is easy to give up trying to figure out what to do on your own.
Endless nested emails don't help.
Volunteers should be given levels according to their time in the
project.
So a level three is guiding level two, level two is guiding level one
etc.
When a fresh volunteer joins, the head of the project is assigning him
a personal tutor.
With a close guidance, learning, confidence and motivation are much
better.
On Mon, Apr 29, 2013, at 15:55, Rob Weir wrote:
>
> I don't know if anyone counted, but it seemed like we
> had 15 or more people volunteer to help. But of the offers of help,
> not many ultimately contributed.
>
> Why is this so?
>
> Regards,
>
> -Rob
Re: Response to follow-up e-mails Was Re: Use of Ricardo's Status page.
Posted by Rob Weir <ro...@apache.org>.
On Sat, Apr 27, 2013 at 12:30 PM, Keith N. McKenna
<ke...@comcast.net> wrote:
> Dave Barton wrote:
>>
>> -------- Original Message --------
>> From: Rob Weir <ro...@apache.org>
>> To: doc@openoffice.apache.org
>> Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2013 11:07:53 -0400
>>
>>> On Sat, Mar 23, 2013 at 5:35 AM, Keith N. McKenna
>>> <ke...@comcast.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Rob Weir wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Wed, Mar 20, 2013 at 2:47 AM, Keith N. McKenna
>>>>> <ke...@comcast.net> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> RGB ES wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 2013/3/19 Rob Weir <ro...@apache.org>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Sun, Mar 17, 2013 at 6:17 PM, Keith N. McKenna
>>>>>>>> <ke...@comcast.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> RGB ES wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> <snip>
>
>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I think we need more "hand holding" and guidance for new volunteers.
>>>>>>>> Just pointing them to wiki is not enough. With QA new volunteers I
>>>>>>>> gave them specific assignments at first, e.g., review these 10 bug
>>>>>>>> reports. I know it sounds odd to "assign" tasks to volunteers, but
>>>>>>>> until they find their way around and self-assign tasks, this is a
>>>>>>>> good
>>>>>>>> way for them to get started. In return, with QA, I promised to
>>>>>>>> review
>>>>>>>> their early work and give them feedback.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> So I wonder if we can come up with set of specific tasks, of various
>>>>>>>> sizes, from 1 to 8 hours, and specifically asked new volunteers to
>>>>>>>> pick from that list? It might work better.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> It is certainly worth a try. We have hard virtually nothing from many
>>>>>> of
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> volunteers since there initial contact.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Another thing would be for one of the moderators of the mailing list
>>>>> to cross reference current list subscribers with those who said they
>>>>> wanted to help. Some of them may not have subscribed to the list.
>>>>> With the QA team I did that and then sent reminders to those who were
>>>>> not yet signed up.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I am not a moderator but if one can get the list and e-mail it to me I
>>>> will
>>>> do the cross check and send out the reminders.
>>>>
>>>
>>> OK. I'm not a moderator on this list either. So who is?
>>>
>>> -Rob
>>>
>>>> Keith
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Any moderator can request the subscriber list by sending this commend
>>>>> from their moderator email address: doc-list@openofice.apache.org
>>>>>
>>>>> Although you should not share the list publicly, since it has
>>>>> everyone's email address, it would be interesting to know how many
>>>>> people are subscribed in total.
>>>>>
>>>>> -Rob
>>
>>
>> The list of 63 subscribers has been sent directly to Keith.
>>
>> Dave
>>
> On 2013-04-09 I sent the following reminder to all individuals that had
> expressed interest in working on documentation but had not yet signed up for
> the mailing list:
>
>> You recently expressed interest in working on documentation for
>> ApacheOpenOffice. To date you have not signed up for our mailing list
>> which is
>
> where we discuss everything having to do with documentation for the project.
>>
>>
>> Currently we are concentrating on user guides for Version 4.0 and we
>
> need help of all sorts for these.If you are still interested please
> subscribe to the mailing list by sending a blank e-mail to
> mailto:doc-subscribe@openoffice.apache.org and follow the instructions
> in the return email or for those that prefer using nntp instead set your
> news reader to news.gmane.org and subscribe to
> gmane.comp.apache.openoffice.doc and join us.
>>
>>
>> Regards Keith McKenna
>
>
> To date I have had no replies. If one of our moderators could check and see
> if we have had an increase from the 63 registered users that were on the
> list that Dave Barton sent me on 2013-03-26 it would be greatly appreciated.
>
> It is to say the least disheartening to look at the status page and see the
> same few names as doing all the work both writing (Ricardo) and editing.
>
> As a group we need to work towards finding ways to motivate others to become
> more active and to recruit new members, especially those with knowledge of
> Calc, Impress and Base who can start writing the Guides for those
> applications.
>
Some thoughts on this.
We were successful in getting many offers of help. We did that by
putting a message on the www.openoffice.org home page, linking to a
blog post, etc. I don't know if anyone counted, but it seemed like we
had 15 or more people volunteer to help. But of the offers of help,
not many ultimately contributed.
Why is this so?
Did we call for volunteers too early, before we had enough structure
in the documentation tasks?
Do few people actually know OpenOffice well-enough to author new
documentation topics?
Do we need more hand-holding and feedback for new volunteers as they
get started?
It is very easy for us to renew the call for volunteers. I'm sure we
could get another 15-20 offers of help. But before we do that it
would be good to understand what we could do differently. Otherwise
we'll get similar results, right?
Idea: In the commercial world the people who write the documentation
do not start with product expertise. They need to learn that. So new
writers start by taking training classes, reading existing
documentation, etc. Their training is often similar or identical to
what technical support representatives go through. Then for new
features they learn about these by interviewing the developers, asking
them questions. Or in some cases there might be a design
specification they can work from. I could imagine that talking to
experienced users could also be helpful.
In other words, if new volunteers do not have the product expertise
that Ricardo has, then we need to suggest some ways that they can
develop that. Otherwise new volunteers will be limited, at least
initially, to reviewing drafts.
Regards,
-Rob
> Regards
> Keith
>
>
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> For additional commands, e-mail: doc-help@openoffice.apache.org
>
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Re: Response to follow-up e-mails Was Re: Use of Ricardo's Status
page.
Posted by Dave Barton <db...@tasit.net>.
Today there are 67 subscribers to the docs list.
-------- Original Message --------
From: Keith N. McKenna <ke...@comcast.net>
To: doc@openoffice.apache.org
Date: Sat, 27 Apr 2013 12:30:38 -0400
> Dave Barton wrote:
>> -------- Original Message --------
>> From: Rob Weir <ro...@apache.org>
>> To: doc@openoffice.apache.org
>> Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2013 11:07:53 -0400
>>
>>> On Sat, Mar 23, 2013 at 5:35 AM, Keith N. McKenna
>>> <ke...@comcast.net> wrote:
>>>> Rob Weir wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> On Wed, Mar 20, 2013 at 2:47 AM, Keith N. McKenna
>>>>> <ke...@comcast.net> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> RGB ES wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 2013/3/19 Rob Weir <ro...@apache.org>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Sun, Mar 17, 2013 at 6:17 PM, Keith N. McKenna
>>>>>>>> <ke...@comcast.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> RGB ES wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> <snip>
>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I think we need more "hand holding" and guidance for new
>>>>>>>> volunteers.
>>>>>>>> Just pointing them to wiki is not enough. With QA new volunteers I
>>>>>>>> gave them specific assignments at first, e.g., review these 10 bug
>>>>>>>> reports. I know it sounds odd to "assign" tasks to volunteers, but
>>>>>>>> until they find their way around and self-assign tasks, this is
>>>>>>>> a good
>>>>>>>> way for them to get started. In return, with QA, I promised to
>>>>>>>> review
>>>>>>>> their early work and give them feedback.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> So I wonder if we can come up with set of specific tasks, of
>>>>>>>> various
>>>>>>>> sizes, from 1 to 8 hours, and specifically asked new volunteers to
>>>>>>>> pick from that list? It might work better.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> It is certainly worth a try. We have hard virtually nothing from
>>>>>> many of
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> volunteers since there initial contact.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Another thing would be for one of the moderators of the mailing list
>>>>> to cross reference current list subscribers with those who said they
>>>>> wanted to help. Some of them may not have subscribed to the list.
>>>>> With the QA team I did that and then sent reminders to those who were
>>>>> not yet signed up.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I am not a moderator but if one can get the list and e-mail it to me
>>>> I will
>>>> do the cross check and send out the reminders.
>>>>
>>>
>>> OK. I'm not a moderator on this list either. So who is?
>>>
>>> -Rob
>>>
>>>> Keith
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Any moderator can request the subscriber list by sending this commend
>>>>> from their moderator email address: doc-list@openofice.apache.org
>>>>>
>>>>> Although you should not share the list publicly, since it has
>>>>> everyone's email address, it would be interesting to know how many
>>>>> people are subscribed in total.
>>>>>
>>>>> -Rob
>>
>> The list of 63 subscribers has been sent directly to Keith.
>>
>> Dave
>>
> On 2013-04-09 I sent the following reminder to all individuals that had
> expressed interest in working on documentation but had not yet signed up
> for the mailing list:
>
>> You recently expressed interest in working on documentation for
>> ApacheOpenOffice. To date you have not signed up for our mailing list
>> which is
> where we discuss everything having to do with documentation for the
> project.
>>
>> Currently we are concentrating on user guides for Version 4.0 and we
> need help of all sorts for these.If you are still interested please
> subscribe to the mailing list by sending a blank e-mail to
> mailto:doc-subscribe@openoffice.apache.org and follow the instructions
> in the return email or for those that prefer using nntp instead set your
> news reader to news.gmane.org and subscribe to
> gmane.comp.apache.openoffice.doc and join us.
>>
>> Regards Keith McKenna
>
> To date I have had no replies. If one of our moderators could check and
> see if we have had an increase from the 63 registered users that were on
> the list that Dave Barton sent me on 2013-03-26 it would be greatly
> appreciated.
>
> It is to say the least disheartening to look at the status page and see
> the same few names as doing all the work both writing (Ricardo) and
> editing.
>
> As a group we need to work towards finding ways to motivate others to
> become more active and to recruit new members, especially those with
> knowledge of Calc, Impress and Base who can start writing the Guides for
> those applications.
>
> Regards
> Keith
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Response to follow-up e-mails Was Re: Use of Ricardo's Status page.
Posted by "Keith N. McKenna" <ke...@comcast.net>.
Dave Barton wrote:
> -------- Original Message --------
> From: Rob Weir <ro...@apache.org>
> To: doc@openoffice.apache.org
> Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2013 11:07:53 -0400
>
>> On Sat, Mar 23, 2013 at 5:35 AM, Keith N. McKenna
>> <ke...@comcast.net> wrote:
>>> Rob Weir wrote:
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Mar 20, 2013 at 2:47 AM, Keith N. McKenna
>>>> <ke...@comcast.net> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> RGB ES wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 2013/3/19 Rob Weir <ro...@apache.org>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Sun, Mar 17, 2013 at 6:17 PM, Keith N. McKenna
>>>>>>> <ke...@comcast.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> RGB ES wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>> <snip>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I think we need more "hand holding" and guidance for new volunteers.
>>>>>>> Just pointing them to wiki is not enough. With QA new volunteers I
>>>>>>> gave them specific assignments at first, e.g., review these 10 bug
>>>>>>> reports. I know it sounds odd to "assign" tasks to volunteers, but
>>>>>>> until they find their way around and self-assign tasks, this is a good
>>>>>>> way for them to get started. In return, with QA, I promised to review
>>>>>>> their early work and give them feedback.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> So I wonder if we can come up with set of specific tasks, of various
>>>>>>> sizes, from 1 to 8 hours, and specifically asked new volunteers to
>>>>>>> pick from that list? It might work better.
>>>>>>>
>>>>> It is certainly worth a try. We have hard virtually nothing from many of
>>>>> the
>>>>> volunteers since there initial contact.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Another thing would be for one of the moderators of the mailing list
>>>> to cross reference current list subscribers with those who said they
>>>> wanted to help. Some of them may not have subscribed to the list.
>>>> With the QA team I did that and then sent reminders to those who were
>>>> not yet signed up.
>>>
>>>
>>> I am not a moderator but if one can get the list and e-mail it to me I will
>>> do the cross check and send out the reminders.
>>>
>>
>> OK. I'm not a moderator on this list either. So who is?
>>
>> -Rob
>>
>>> Keith
>>>
>>>
>>>> Any moderator can request the subscriber list by sending this commend
>>>> from their moderator email address: doc-list@openofice.apache.org
>>>>
>>>> Although you should not share the list publicly, since it has
>>>> everyone's email address, it would be interesting to know how many
>>>> people are subscribed in total.
>>>>
>>>> -Rob
>
> The list of 63 subscribers has been sent directly to Keith.
>
> Dave
>
On 2013-04-09 I sent the following reminder to all individuals that had
expressed interest in working on documentation but had not yet signed up
for the mailing list:
> You recently expressed interest in working on documentation for
> ApacheOpenOffice. To date you have not signed up for our mailing list which is
where we discuss everything having to do with documentation for the project.
>
> Currently we are concentrating on user guides for Version 4.0 and we
need help of all sorts for these.If you are still interested please
subscribe to the mailing list by sending a blank e-mail to
mailto:doc-subscribe@openoffice.apache.org and follow the instructions
in the return email or for those that prefer using nntp instead set your
news reader to news.gmane.org and subscribe to
gmane.comp.apache.openoffice.doc and join us.
>
> Regards Keith McKenna
To date I have had no replies. If one of our moderators could check and
see if we have had an increase from the 63 registered users that were on
the list that Dave Barton sent me on 2013-03-26 it would be greatly
appreciated.
It is to say the least disheartening to look at the status page and see
the same few names as doing all the work both writing (Ricardo) and editing.
As a group we need to work towards finding ways to motivate others to
become more active and to recruit new members, especially those with
knowledge of Calc, Impress and Base who can start writing the Guides for
those applications.
Regards
Keith
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Re: Use of Ricardo's Status page.
Posted by Dave Barton <db...@tasit.net>.
-------- Original Message --------
From: Rob Weir <ro...@apache.org>
To: doc@openoffice.apache.org
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2013 11:07:53 -0400
> On Sat, Mar 23, 2013 at 5:35 AM, Keith N. McKenna
> <ke...@comcast.net> wrote:
>> Rob Weir wrote:
>>>
>>> On Wed, Mar 20, 2013 at 2:47 AM, Keith N. McKenna
>>> <ke...@comcast.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> RGB ES wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> 2013/3/19 Rob Weir <ro...@apache.org>
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Sun, Mar 17, 2013 at 6:17 PM, Keith N. McKenna
>>>>>> <ke...@comcast.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> RGB ES wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>> <snip>
>>>>
>>>>>>> Hi Ricardo;
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I appreciate the link and hopefully it will prompt people to start
>>>>>>> using
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> it
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> more. I have been wracking my brains trying to think of ways to get
>>>>>>> more
>>>>>>> people interested. We seem to have had a flurry after the initial
>>>>>>> announcement, but except for a few entries in the status document I
>>>>>>> see
>>>>>>> nothing except your excellent work. We need to figure out some way to
>>>>>>> attract people with the skill and knowledge to start on the other
>>>>>>> applications.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I think we need more "hand holding" and guidance for new volunteers.
>>>>>> Just pointing them to wiki is not enough. With QA new volunteers I
>>>>>> gave them specific assignments at first, e.g., review these 10 bug
>>>>>> reports. I know it sounds odd to "assign" tasks to volunteers, but
>>>>>> until they find their way around and self-assign tasks, this is a good
>>>>>> way for them to get started. In return, with QA, I promised to review
>>>>>> their early work and give them feedback.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So I wonder if we can come up with set of specific tasks, of various
>>>>>> sizes, from 1 to 8 hours, and specifically asked new volunteers to
>>>>>> pick from that list? It might work better.
>>>>>>
>>>> It is certainly worth a try. We have hard virtually nothing from many of
>>>> the
>>>> volunteers since there initial contact.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Another thing would be for one of the moderators of the mailing list
>>> to cross reference current list subscribers with those who said they
>>> wanted to help. Some of them may not have subscribed to the list.
>>> With the QA team I did that and then sent reminders to those who were
>>> not yet signed up.
>>
>>
>> I am not a moderator but if one can get the list and e-mail it to me I will
>> do the cross check and send out the reminders.
>>
>
> OK. I'm not a moderator on this list either. So who is?
>
> -Rob
>
>> Keith
>>
>>
>>> Any moderator can request the subscriber list by sending this commend
>>> from their moderator email address: doc-list@openofice.apache.org
>>>
>>> Although you should not share the list publicly, since it has
>>> everyone's email address, it would be interesting to know how many
>>> people are subscribed in total.
>>>
>>> -Rob
The list of 63 subscribers has been sent directly to Keith.
Dave
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Re: Use of Ricardo's Status page.
Posted by Rob Weir <ro...@apache.org>.
On Sat, Mar 23, 2013 at 5:35 AM, Keith N. McKenna
<ke...@comcast.net> wrote:
> Rob Weir wrote:
>>
>> On Wed, Mar 20, 2013 at 2:47 AM, Keith N. McKenna
>> <ke...@comcast.net> wrote:
>>>
>>> RGB ES wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 2013/3/19 Rob Weir <ro...@apache.org>
>>>>
>>>>> On Sun, Mar 17, 2013 at 6:17 PM, Keith N. McKenna
>>>>> <ke...@comcast.net> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> RGB ES wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>> <snip>
>>>
>>>>>> Hi Ricardo;
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I appreciate the link and hopefully it will prompt people to start
>>>>>> using
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> it
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> more. I have been wracking my brains trying to think of ways to get
>>>>>> more
>>>>>> people interested. We seem to have had a flurry after the initial
>>>>>> announcement, but except for a few entries in the status document I
>>>>>> see
>>>>>> nothing except your excellent work. We need to figure out some way to
>>>>>> attract people with the skill and knowledge to start on the other
>>>>>> applications.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I think we need more "hand holding" and guidance for new volunteers.
>>>>> Just pointing them to wiki is not enough. With QA new volunteers I
>>>>> gave them specific assignments at first, e.g., review these 10 bug
>>>>> reports. I know it sounds odd to "assign" tasks to volunteers, but
>>>>> until they find their way around and self-assign tasks, this is a good
>>>>> way for them to get started. In return, with QA, I promised to review
>>>>> their early work and give them feedback.
>>>>>
>>>>> So I wonder if we can come up with set of specific tasks, of various
>>>>> sizes, from 1 to 8 hours, and specifically asked new volunteers to
>>>>> pick from that list? It might work better.
>>>>>
>>> It is certainly worth a try. We have hard virtually nothing from many of
>>> the
>>> volunteers since there initial contact.
>>>
>>
>> Another thing would be for one of the moderators of the mailing list
>> to cross reference current list subscribers with those who said they
>> wanted to help. Some of them may not have subscribed to the list.
>> With the QA team I did that and then sent reminders to those who were
>> not yet signed up.
>
>
> I am not a moderator but if one can get the list and e-mail it to me I will
> do the cross check and send out the reminders.
>
OK. I'm not a moderator on this list either. So who is?
-Rob
> Keith
>
>
>> Any moderator can request the subscriber list by sending this commend
>> from their moderator email address: doc-list@openofice.apache.org
>>
>> Although you should not share the list publicly, since it has
>> everyone's email address, it would be interesting to know how many
>> people are subscribed in total.
>>
>> -Rob
>>
>>
>>>>
>>>> That's a good idea. The tasks I can think of are two:
>>>>
>>>> - Proofreading of still not checked pages
>>>> - Accuracy / clarity: ask the volunteer to follow the steps described to
>>>> see if they work or not.
>>>
>>>
>>> Is version 4.0 far enough along in the development cycle that accuracy
>>> checking is feasible or should we have 2 rounds of checking? The first
>>> against 3.4.1 to clean up any problems there and then a second more in
>>> depth
>>> one when 4.0 is more stable.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Regards
>>>> Ricardo
>>>>
>>>
>>>> <snip>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: doc-unsubscribe@openoffice.apache.org
>>> For additional commands, e-mail: doc-help@openoffice.apache.org
>>>
>
>
>
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Re: Use of Ricardo's Status page.
Posted by "Keith N. McKenna" <ke...@comcast.net>.
Rob Weir wrote:
> On Wed, Mar 20, 2013 at 2:47 AM, Keith N. McKenna
> <ke...@comcast.net> wrote:
>> RGB ES wrote:
>>>
>>> 2013/3/19 Rob Weir <ro...@apache.org>
>>>
>>>> On Sun, Mar 17, 2013 at 6:17 PM, Keith N. McKenna
>>>> <ke...@comcast.net> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> RGB ES wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>> <snip>
>>
>>>>> Hi Ricardo;
>>>>>
>>>>> I appreciate the link and hopefully it will prompt people to start using
>>>>
>>>> it
>>>>>
>>>>> more. I have been wracking my brains trying to think of ways to get more
>>>>> people interested. We seem to have had a flurry after the initial
>>>>> announcement, but except for a few entries in the status document I see
>>>>> nothing except your excellent work. We need to figure out some way to
>>>>> attract people with the skill and knowledge to start on the other
>>>>> applications.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I think we need more "hand holding" and guidance for new volunteers.
>>>> Just pointing them to wiki is not enough. With QA new volunteers I
>>>> gave them specific assignments at first, e.g., review these 10 bug
>>>> reports. I know it sounds odd to "assign" tasks to volunteers, but
>>>> until they find their way around and self-assign tasks, this is a good
>>>> way for them to get started. In return, with QA, I promised to review
>>>> their early work and give them feedback.
>>>>
>>>> So I wonder if we can come up with set of specific tasks, of various
>>>> sizes, from 1 to 8 hours, and specifically asked new volunteers to
>>>> pick from that list? It might work better.
>>>>
>> It is certainly worth a try. We have hard virtually nothing from many of the
>> volunteers since there initial contact.
>>
>
> Another thing would be for one of the moderators of the mailing list
> to cross reference current list subscribers with those who said they
> wanted to help. Some of them may not have subscribed to the list.
> With the QA team I did that and then sent reminders to those who were
> not yet signed up.
I am not a moderator but if one can get the list and e-mail it to me I
will do the cross check and send out the reminders.
Keith
> Any moderator can request the subscriber list by sending this commend
> from their moderator email address: doc-list@openofice.apache.org
>
> Although you should not share the list publicly, since it has
> everyone's email address, it would be interesting to know how many
> people are subscribed in total.
>
> -Rob
>
>
>>>
>>> That's a good idea. The tasks I can think of are two:
>>>
>>> - Proofreading of still not checked pages
>>> - Accuracy / clarity: ask the volunteer to follow the steps described to
>>> see if they work or not.
>>
>> Is version 4.0 far enough along in the development cycle that accuracy
>> checking is feasible or should we have 2 rounds of checking? The first
>> against 3.4.1 to clean up any problems there and then a second more in depth
>> one when 4.0 is more stable.
>>>
>>>
>>> Regards
>>> Ricardo
>>>
>>
>>> <snip>
>>
>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: doc-unsubscribe@openoffice.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: doc-help@openoffice.apache.org
>>
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Re: Use of Ricardo's Status page.
Posted by Rob Weir <ro...@apache.org>.
On Wed, Mar 20, 2013 at 2:47 AM, Keith N. McKenna
<ke...@comcast.net> wrote:
> RGB ES wrote:
>>
>> 2013/3/19 Rob Weir <ro...@apache.org>
>>
>>> On Sun, Mar 17, 2013 at 6:17 PM, Keith N. McKenna
>>> <ke...@comcast.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> RGB ES wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
> <snip>
>
>>>> Hi Ricardo;
>>>>
>>>> I appreciate the link and hopefully it will prompt people to start using
>>>
>>> it
>>>>
>>>> more. I have been wracking my brains trying to think of ways to get more
>>>> people interested. We seem to have had a flurry after the initial
>>>> announcement, but except for a few entries in the status document I see
>>>> nothing except your excellent work. We need to figure out some way to
>>>> attract people with the skill and knowledge to start on the other
>>>> applications.
>>>>
>>>
>>> I think we need more "hand holding" and guidance for new volunteers.
>>> Just pointing them to wiki is not enough. With QA new volunteers I
>>> gave them specific assignments at first, e.g., review these 10 bug
>>> reports. I know it sounds odd to "assign" tasks to volunteers, but
>>> until they find their way around and self-assign tasks, this is a good
>>> way for them to get started. In return, with QA, I promised to review
>>> their early work and give them feedback.
>>>
>>> So I wonder if we can come up with set of specific tasks, of various
>>> sizes, from 1 to 8 hours, and specifically asked new volunteers to
>>> pick from that list? It might work better.
>>>
> It is certainly worth a try. We have hard virtually nothing from many of the
> volunteers since there initial contact.
>
Another thing would be for one of the moderators of the mailing list
to cross reference current list subscribers with those who said they
wanted to help. Some of them may not have subscribed to the list.
With the QA team I did that and then sent reminders to those who were
not yet signed up.
Any moderator can request the subscriber list by sending this commend
from their moderator email address: doc-list@openofice.apache.org
Although you should not share the list publicly, since it has
everyone's email address, it would be interesting to know how many
people are subscribed in total.
-Rob
>>
>> That's a good idea. The tasks I can think of are two:
>>
>> - Proofreading of still not checked pages
>> - Accuracy / clarity: ask the volunteer to follow the steps described to
>> see if they work or not.
>
> Is version 4.0 far enough along in the development cycle that accuracy
> checking is feasible or should we have 2 rounds of checking? The first
> against 3.4.1 to clean up any problems there and then a second more in depth
> one when 4.0 is more stable.
>>
>>
>> Regards
>> Ricardo
>>
>
>> <snip>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: doc-unsubscribe@openoffice.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: doc-help@openoffice.apache.org
>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
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Re: Use of Ricardo's Status page.
Posted by "Keith N. McKenna" <ke...@comcast.net>.
RGB ES wrote:
> 2013/3/19 Rob Weir <ro...@apache.org>
>
>> On Sun, Mar 17, 2013 at 6:17 PM, Keith N. McKenna
>> <ke...@comcast.net> wrote:
>>> RGB ES wrote:
>>>>
<snip>
>>> Hi Ricardo;
>>>
>>> I appreciate the link and hopefully it will prompt people to start using
>> it
>>> more. I have been wracking my brains trying to think of ways to get more
>>> people interested. We seem to have had a flurry after the initial
>>> announcement, but except for a few entries in the status document I see
>>> nothing except your excellent work. We need to figure out some way to
>>> attract people with the skill and knowledge to start on the other
>>> applications.
>>>
>>
>> I think we need more "hand holding" and guidance for new volunteers.
>> Just pointing them to wiki is not enough. With QA new volunteers I
>> gave them specific assignments at first, e.g., review these 10 bug
>> reports. I know it sounds odd to "assign" tasks to volunteers, but
>> until they find their way around and self-assign tasks, this is a good
>> way for them to get started. In return, with QA, I promised to review
>> their early work and give them feedback.
>>
>> So I wonder if we can come up with set of specific tasks, of various
>> sizes, from 1 to 8 hours, and specifically asked new volunteers to
>> pick from that list? It might work better.
>>
It is certainly worth a try. We have hard virtually nothing from many of
the volunteers since there initial contact.
>
> That's a good idea. The tasks I can think of are two:
>
> - Proofreading of still not checked pages
> - Accuracy / clarity: ask the volunteer to follow the steps described to
> see if they work or not.
Is version 4.0 far enough along in the development cycle that accuracy
checking is feasible or should we have 2 rounds of checking? The first
against 3.4.1 to clean up any problems there and then a second more in
depth one when 4.0 is more stable.
>
> Regards
> Ricardo
>
><snip>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
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Re: Use of Ricardo's Status page.
Posted by RGB ES <rg...@gmail.com>.
2013/3/19 Rob Weir <ro...@apache.org>
> On Sun, Mar 17, 2013 at 6:17 PM, Keith N. McKenna
> <ke...@comcast.net> wrote:
> > RGB ES wrote:
> >>
> >> 2013/3/7 Keith N. McKenna <ke...@comcast.net>
> >>
> >>> Evening All;
> >>>
> >>> With the recent call for volunteers starting to attract new people it
> is
> >>> time that we start keeping closer tabs on what has been done on the
> User
> >>> Guides.
> >>>
> >>> Ricardo put together a page a while back to help with this (thank you
> >>> Ricardo) and think it is time we start making better use of it. I have
> >>> added most of what I have done so far to it and I see a few others have
> >>> also. If others can also fill in what the have done we will be further
> >>> along on understanding where we are and what needs to be done.
> >>>
> >>> If this is not done, I see no other alternative then to have to redo
> work
> >>> that ma have already been done, thus slowing down the overall effort.
> >>>
> >>> I thank you for taking the time to update the page with your work. The
> >>> page can be found here: http://wiki.openoffice.org/**
> >>>
> >>> wiki/Documentation/UserGuide/**Status<
> http://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/Documentation/UserGuide/Status>
> >>>
> >>>
> >> Hi, Keith,
> >>
> >> Thanks to you and to all the others for the proof reading!
> >>
> >> To make it more accessible I just added a small link to the status page
> on
> >> the index page.
> >>
> >> Regards
> >> Ricardo
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>> Regards
> >>> Keith
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> ------------------------------**------------------------------**---------
> >>> To unsubscribe, e-mail:
> >>> doc-unsubscribe@openoffice.**apache.org<
> doc-unsubscribe@openoffice.apache.org>
> >>> For additional commands, e-mail: doc-help@openoffice.apache.org
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> > Hi Ricardo;
> >
> > I appreciate the link and hopefully it will prompt people to start using
> it
> > more. I have been wracking my brains trying to think of ways to get more
> > people interested. We seem to have had a flurry after the initial
> > announcement, but except for a few entries in the status document I see
> > nothing except your excellent work. We need to figure out some way to
> > attract people with the skill and knowledge to start on the other
> > applications.
> >
>
> I think we need more "hand holding" and guidance for new volunteers.
> Just pointing them to wiki is not enough. With QA new volunteers I
> gave them specific assignments at first, e.g., review these 10 bug
> reports. I know it sounds odd to "assign" tasks to volunteers, but
> until they find their way around and self-assign tasks, this is a good
> way for them to get started. In return, with QA, I promised to review
> their early work and give them feedback.
>
> So I wonder if we can come up with set of specific tasks, of various
> sizes, from 1 to 8 hours, and specifically asked new volunteers to
> pick from that list? It might work better.
>
That's a good idea. The tasks I can think of are two:
- Proofreading of still not checked pages
- Accuracy / clarity: ask the volunteer to follow the steps described to
see if they work or not.
Regards
Ricardo
>
> -Rob
>
> > Regards
> > Keith
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: doc-unsubscribe@openoffice.apache.org
> >
> > For additional commands, e-mail: doc-help@openoffice.apache.org
> >
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: doc-unsubscribe@openoffice.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: doc-help@openoffice.apache.org
>
>
Re: Use of Ricardo's Status page.
Posted by Rob Weir <ro...@apache.org>.
On Sun, Mar 17, 2013 at 6:17 PM, Keith N. McKenna
<ke...@comcast.net> wrote:
> RGB ES wrote:
>>
>> 2013/3/7 Keith N. McKenna <ke...@comcast.net>
>>
>>> Evening All;
>>>
>>> With the recent call for volunteers starting to attract new people it is
>>> time that we start keeping closer tabs on what has been done on the User
>>> Guides.
>>>
>>> Ricardo put together a page a while back to help with this (thank you
>>> Ricardo) and think it is time we start making better use of it. I have
>>> added most of what I have done so far to it and I see a few others have
>>> also. If others can also fill in what the have done we will be further
>>> along on understanding where we are and what needs to be done.
>>>
>>> If this is not done, I see no other alternative then to have to redo work
>>> that ma have already been done, thus slowing down the overall effort.
>>>
>>> I thank you for taking the time to update the page with your work. The
>>> page can be found here: http://wiki.openoffice.org/**
>>>
>>> wiki/Documentation/UserGuide/**Status<http://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/Documentation/UserGuide/Status>
>>>
>>>
>> Hi, Keith,
>>
>> Thanks to you and to all the others for the proof reading!
>>
>> To make it more accessible I just added a small link to the status page on
>> the index page.
>>
>> Regards
>> Ricardo
>>
>>
>>
>>> Regards
>>> Keith
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------**------------------------------**---------
>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail:
>>> doc-unsubscribe@openoffice.**apache.org<do...@openoffice.apache.org>
>>> For additional commands, e-mail: doc-help@openoffice.apache.org
>>>
>>>
>>
> Hi Ricardo;
>
> I appreciate the link and hopefully it will prompt people to start using it
> more. I have been wracking my brains trying to think of ways to get more
> people interested. We seem to have had a flurry after the initial
> announcement, but except for a few entries in the status document I see
> nothing except your excellent work. We need to figure out some way to
> attract people with the skill and knowledge to start on the other
> applications.
>
I think we need more "hand holding" and guidance for new volunteers.
Just pointing them to wiki is not enough. With QA new volunteers I
gave them specific assignments at first, e.g., review these 10 bug
reports. I know it sounds odd to "assign" tasks to volunteers, but
until they find their way around and self-assign tasks, this is a good
way for them to get started. In return, with QA, I promised to review
their early work and give them feedback.
So I wonder if we can come up with set of specific tasks, of various
sizes, from 1 to 8 hours, and specifically asked new volunteers to
pick from that list? It might work better.
-Rob
> Regards
> Keith
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: doc-unsubscribe@openoffice.apache.org
>
> For additional commands, e-mail: doc-help@openoffice.apache.org
>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: doc-unsubscribe@openoffice.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: doc-help@openoffice.apache.org
Re: Use of Ricardo's Status page.
Posted by "Keith N. McKenna" <ke...@comcast.net>.
RGB ES wrote:
> 2013/3/7 Keith N. McKenna <ke...@comcast.net>
>
>> Evening All;
>>
>> With the recent call for volunteers starting to attract new people it is
>> time that we start keeping closer tabs on what has been done on the User
>> Guides.
>>
>> Ricardo put together a page a while back to help with this (thank you
>> Ricardo) and think it is time we start making better use of it. I have
>> added most of what I have done so far to it and I see a few others have
>> also. If others can also fill in what the have done we will be further
>> along on understanding where we are and what needs to be done.
>>
>> If this is not done, I see no other alternative then to have to redo work
>> that ma have already been done, thus slowing down the overall effort.
>>
>> I thank you for taking the time to update the page with your work. The
>> page can be found here: http://wiki.openoffice.org/**
>> wiki/Documentation/UserGuide/**Status<http://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/Documentation/UserGuide/Status>
>>
>>
> Hi, Keith,
>
> Thanks to you and to all the others for the proof reading!
>
> To make it more accessible I just added a small link to the status page on
> the index page.
>
> Regards
> Ricardo
>
>
>
>> Regards
>> Keith
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------**------------------------------**---------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: doc-unsubscribe@openoffice.**apache.org<do...@openoffice.apache.org>
>> For additional commands, e-mail: doc-help@openoffice.apache.org
>>
>>
>
Hi Ricardo;
I appreciate the link and hopefully it will prompt people to start using
it more. I have been wracking my brains trying to think of ways to get
more people interested. We seem to have had a flurry after the initial
announcement, but except for a few entries in the status document I see
nothing except your excellent work. We need to figure out some way to
attract people with the skill and knowledge to start on the other
applications.
Regards
Keith
---------------------------------------------------------------------
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Re: Use of Ricardo's Status page.
Posted by RGB ES <rg...@gmail.com>.
2013/3/7 Keith N. McKenna <ke...@comcast.net>
> Evening All;
>
> With the recent call for volunteers starting to attract new people it is
> time that we start keeping closer tabs on what has been done on the User
> Guides.
>
> Ricardo put together a page a while back to help with this (thank you
> Ricardo) and think it is time we start making better use of it. I have
> added most of what I have done so far to it and I see a few others have
> also. If others can also fill in what the have done we will be further
> along on understanding where we are and what needs to be done.
>
> If this is not done, I see no other alternative then to have to redo work
> that ma have already been done, thus slowing down the overall effort.
>
> I thank you for taking the time to update the page with your work. The
> page can be found here: http://wiki.openoffice.org/**
> wiki/Documentation/UserGuide/**Status<http://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/Documentation/UserGuide/Status>
>
>
Hi, Keith,
Thanks to you and to all the others for the proof reading!
To make it more accessible I just added a small link to the status page on
the index page.
Regards
Ricardo
> Regards
> Keith
>
>
> ------------------------------**------------------------------**---------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: doc-unsubscribe@openoffice.**apache.org<do...@openoffice.apache.org>
> For additional commands, e-mail: doc-help@openoffice.apache.org
>
>