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Posted to dev@hive.apache.org by Alan Gates <ga...@hortonworks.com> on 2013/01/08 22:49:54 UTC
Re: [DISCUSS] HCatalog becoming a subproject of Hive
So what is the next step here? As far as I can tell all agree that moving HCat into Hive is the right thing to do, but there is a fairly polarized division on how to handle the commit rights. Given that I re-propose my compromise. Like all good compromises most everyone hates it. But I think it gives us a path forward to what we agree is a common goal.
Here is the slightly modified version of my proposed compromise, which makes clear that promotion from HCat committer to Hive committer is not automatic.
>>>
All active HCat committers (those who have contributed or committed a patch in the last 6 months) will be made committers in the HCat portion only of Hive. In addition those committers will be assigned a particular shepherd who is a current Hive committer and who will be responsible for mentoring them towards full Hive committership. As a part of this mentorship the HCat committer will review patches of other contributors, contribute patches to Hive (both inside and outside of HCatalog), respond to user issues on the mailing lists, etc. It is intended that as a result of this mentorship program HCat committers can become full Hive committers in 6-9 months. Becoming a full Hive committer in this time frame is not guaranteed. It will require the vote of the Hive PMC to move the HCat committer to a full Hive committer. No new HCat only committers will be elected in Hive after this. All Hive committers will automatically also have commit rights on HCatalog.
<<<
If anyone has additional proposed modifications please make them. Otherwise I propose that the Hive PMC vote on this proposal.
Alan.
On Dec 20, 2012, at 3:53 PM, Ashish Thusoo wrote:
> hmm... why is this considered "preferential treatment"?
>
> All the work for HCat is in the public domain so we can really evaluate whether they have been following apache practices - the fact that they are graduating from the incubator would seem to indicate that they have been doing so. If this code base is contributed back to Hive, is that not counted as a significant contribution to Hive? I am failing to understand on what count they don't qualify to be committers.
>
> Plus if it is too onerous to enforce committer privileges on selective parts (is there a way?) of the project, then what do terms like Hive committer, HCat committer mean? Also should Hive committers have privileges to commit into HCat part of the code once it becomes a subproject. I think we are just creating walls and the problem with walls is that they just impede cross pollination and community expansion.
>
> Ashish
>
>
> On Thu, Dec 20, 2012 at 1:59 PM, Carl Steinbach <cw...@apache.org> wrote:
> I agree with Namit on this issue. I don't think it's fair to the
> existing group of Hive contributors to give preferential
> treatment to HCat committers, or to automatically promote them to
> full committer status on the Hive project.
>
> On Thu, Dec 20, 2012 at 1:10 PM, Bhandarkar, Milind <
> Milind.Bhandarkar@emc.com> wrote:
>
> > I agree with Ashish.
> >
> > When Hcat becomes a subproject of Hive, all Hcat committers should
> > immediately become Hive committers.
> >
> > After all, that worked well for Hadoop, where all Hadoop committers can
> > commit to all Hadoop code (common/HDFS/MapReduce), but not all do, instead
> > focusing only on their area of expertise, and familiarity with portions of
> > codebase.
> >
> > - milind
> >
> > ---
> > Milind Bhandarkar
> > Chief Scientist,
> > Machine Learning Platforms,
> > Greenplum, A Division of EMC
> > +1-650-523-3858 (W)
> > +1-408-666-8483 (C)
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On 12/20/12 5:58 AM, "Ashish Thusoo" <at...@qubole.com> wrote:
> >
> > >Actually I don't understand why getting Hcat folks as committers on Hive
> > >is
> > >a problem. Hive itself became a subproject of Hadoop when it started with
> > >all the Hive committers becoming Hadoop committers. And of course everyone
> > >maintained the discipline that they commit in parts of the code that they
> > >understand and that they have worked on. Some of the committers from Hive
> > >ended up becoming Hadoop committers - others who worked only on Hive ended
> > >up leaving the Hadoop committers list once Hive became a TLP. So why put
> > >in
> > >these arguments about process when the end result would be beneficial to
> > >the community and to the project. Would Hive not benefit if some folks
> > >from
> > >Hcat start working on Hive proper as well - of course under the guidance
> > >of
> > >Hive mentors etc. Would the project not benefit in the long run if Hcat is
> > >brought in and some day becomes the default metastore for Hive. I mean if
> > >there are so many long term benefits from this then why focus on control
> > >and code safety which I think any responsible committer knows how to
> > >navigate and there are well understood best practices for that. And why
> > >can't a committer be booted out if he/she is breaking the discipline and
> > >really nosing in places which he/she does not understand.
> > >
> > >I mean if we agree that directionally Hcat being a part of Hive makes
> > >sense
> > >then why don't we try to get rid of the procedural elements that would
> > >only
> > >slow down that transition? If there is angst about specific people on Hcat
> > >committers list on the Hive committers side (are there any?), then I think
> > >that should be addressed on a case by case basis but why enforce a general
> > >rule. In the same vein why have a rule saying in 6-9 months a Hcat
> > >committer becomes a Hive committer - how is that helpful? If they are
> > >changing the Hcat subproject in Hive are they not already Hive committers?
> > >And if they gain the expertise to review and commit code in the
> > >SemanticAnalyzer in a few months should they not be able to do that before
> > >9 months are over? And if they don't get that expertise in 9 months would
> > >they really review and commit anything in the SemanticAnalyzer - I mean
> > >there are Hive committers who don't touch that piece of code today. no?
> > >
> > >Ashish
> > >
> > >
> > >On Wed, Dec 19, 2012 at 8:23 PM, Namit Jain <nj...@fb.com> wrote:
> > >
> > >> I don’t agree with the proposal. It is impractical to have a Hcat
> > >>committer
> > >> with commit access to Hcat only portions of Hive. We cannot guarantee
> > >>that
> > >> a Hcat
> > >> committer will become a Hive committer in 6-9 months, that depends on
> > >>what
> > >> they do
> > >> in the next 6-9 months.
> > >>
> > >> The current Hcat committers should spend more time in reviewing patches,
> > >> work on non-Hcat areas in Hive, and then gradually become a hive
> > >> committer. They should not be given any preferential treatment, and the
> > >> process should be same as it would be for any other hive contributor
> > >> currently. Given that the expertise of the Hcat committers, they should
> > >> be inline for becoming a hive committer if they continue to work in
> > >>hive,
> > >> but that cannot be guaranteed. I agree that some Hive committers should
> > >>try
> > >> and help the existing Hcat patches, and again that is voluntary and
> > >> different
> > >> committers cannot be assigned to different parts of the code.
> > >>
> > >> Thanks,
> > >> -namit
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> On 12/20/12 1:03 AM, "Carl Steinbach" <cw...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >>
> > >> >Alan's proposal sounds like a good idea to me.
> > >> >
> > >> >+1
> > >> >
> > >> >On Dec 18, 2012 5:36 PM, "Travis Crawford" <tr...@gmail.com>
> > >> >wrote:
> > >> >
> > >> >> Alan, I think your proposal sounds great.
> > >> >>
> > >> >> --travis
> > >> >>
> > >> >> On Tue, Dec 18, 2012 at 1:13 PM, Alan Gates <ga...@hortonworks.com>
> > >> >>wrote:
> > >> >> > Carl, speaking just for myself and not as a representative of the
> > >>HCat
> > >> >> PPMC at this point, I am coming to agree with you that HCat
> > >>integrating
> > >> >> with Hive fully makes more sense.
> > >> >> >
> > >> >> > However, this makes the committer question even thornier. Travis
> > >>and
> > >> >> Namit, I think the shepherd proposal needs to lay out a clear and
> > >>time
> > >> >> bounded path to committership for HCat committers. Having HCat
> > >> >>committers
> > >> >> as second class Hive citizens for the long run will not be healthy.
> > >>I
> > >> >> propose the following as a starting point for discussion:
> > >> >> >
> > >> >> > All active HCat committers (those who have contributed or
> > >>committed a
> > >> >> patch in the last 6 months) will be made committers in the HCat
> > >>portion
> > >> >> only of Hive. In addition those committers will be assigned a
> > >> >>particular
> > >> >> shepherd who is a current Hive committer and who will be responsible
> > >>for
> > >> >> mentoring them towards full Hive committership. As a part of this
> > >> >> mentorship the HCat committer will review patches of other
> > >>contributors,
> > >> >> contribute patches to Hive (both inside and outside of HCatalog),
> > >> >>respond
> > >> >> to user issues on the mailing lists, etc. It is intended that as a
> > >> >>result
> > >> >> of this mentorship program HCat committers can become full Hive
> > >> >>committers
> > >> >> in 6-9 months. No new HCat only committers will be elected in Hive
> > >> >>after
> > >> >> this. All Hive committers will automatically also have commit
> > >>rights on
> > >> >> HCatalog.
> > >> >> >
> > >> >> > Alan.
> > >> >> >
> > >> >> > On Dec 14, 2012, at 10:05 AM, Carl Steinbach wrote:
> > >> >> >
> > >> >> >> On a functional level I don't think there is going to be much of a
> > >> >> >> difference between the subproject option proposed by Travis and
> > >>the
> > >> >> other
> > >> >> >> option where HCatalog becomes a TLP. In both cases HCatalog and
> > >>Hive
> > >> >> will
> > >> >> >> have separate committers, separate code repositories, separate
> > >> >>release
> > >> >> >> cycles, and separate project roadmaps. Aside from ASF
> > >>bureaucracy, I
> > >> >> think
> > >> >> >> the only major difference between the two options is that the
> > >> >>subproject
> > >> >> >> route will give the rest of the community the false impression
> > >>that
> > >> >>the
> > >> >> two
> > >> >> >> projects have coordinated roadmaps and a process to prevent
> > >> >>overlapping
> > >> >> >> functionality from appearing in both projects. Consequently, If
> > >>these
> > >> >> are
> > >> >> >> the only two options then I would prefer that HCatalog become a
> > >>TLP.
> > >> >> >>
> > >> >> >> On the other hand, I also agree with many of the sentiments that
> > >>have
> > >> >> >> already been expressed in this thread, namely that the two
> > >>projects
> > >> >>are
> > >> >> >> closely related and that it would benefit the community at large
> > >>if
> > >> >>the
> > >> >> two
> > >> >> >> projects could be brought closer together. Up to this point the
> > >>major
> > >> >> >> source of pain for the HCatalog team has been the frequent
> > >>necessity
> > >> >>of
> > >> >> >> making changes on both the Hive and HCatalog sides when
> > >>implementing
> > >> >>new
> > >> >> >> features in HCatalog. This situation is compounded by the ASF
> > >> >> requirement
> > >> >> >> that release artifacts may not depend on snapshot artifacts from
> > >> >>other
> > >> >> ASF
> > >> >> >> projects. Furthermore, if Hive adds a dependency on HCatalog then
> > >>it
> > >> >> will
> > >> >> >> be subject to these same problems (in addition to the gross
> > >>circular
> > >> >> >> dependency!).
> > >> >> >>
> > >> >> >> I think the best way to avoid these problems is for HCatalog to
> > >> >>become a
> > >> >> >> Hive submodule. In this scenario HCatalog would exist as a
> > >> >>subdirectory
> > >> >> in
> > >> >> >> the Hive repository and would be distributed as a Hive artifact in
> > >> >> future
> > >> >> >> Hive releases. In addition to solving the problems I mentioned
> > >> >>earlier,
> > >> >> I
> > >> >> >> think this would also help to assuage the concerns of many Hive
> > >> >> committers
> > >> >> >> who don't want to see the MetaStore split out into a separate
> > >> >>project.
> > >> >> >>
> > >> >> >> Thanks.
> > >> >> >>
> > >> >> >> Carl
> > >> >> >>
> > >> >> >> On Thu, Dec 13, 2012 at 7:59 PM, Namit Jain <nj...@fb.com> wrote:
> > >> >> >>
> > >> >> >>> I am fine with this. Any hive committers who wants to volunteer
> > >>to
> > >> >>be
> > >> >> >>> a hcat shepherd is welcome.
> > >> >> >>>
> > >> >> >>>
> > >> >> >>>
> > >> >> >>> On 12/14/12 7:01 AM, "Travis Crawford" <traviscrawford@gmail.com
> > >
> > >> >> wrote:
> > >> >> >>>
> > >> >> >>>> Thanks for reviving this thread. Reviewing the comments everyone
> > >> >>seems
> > >> >> >>>> to agree HCatalog makes sense as a Hive subproject. I think
> > >>that's
> > >> >> >>>> great news for the Hadoop community.
> > >> >> >>>>
> > >> >> >>>> The discussion seems to have turned to one of committer
> > >> >>permissions. I
> > >> >> >>>> agree with the Hive folks sentiment that its something that
> > >>must be
> > >> >> >>>> earned. That said, I've found it challenging at times getting
> > >> >>patches
> > >> >> >>>> into Hive that would help earn taking on a hive committer
> > >> >> >>>> responsibility.
> > >> >> >>>>
> > >> >> >>>> Proposal: if a couple hive committers can volunteer to be hcat
> > >> >> >>>> shepherds, we can work with the shepherds when making hive
> > >>changes
> > >> >>in
> > >> >> >>>> a timely manor. Conversely, we can help shepherd any hive
> > >> >>committers
> > >> >> >>>> who are interested in working more with hcat. There are
> > >>certainly
> > >> >> >>>> benefits to cross-committership, and this approach could help
> > >>each
> > >> >> >>>> other build a history of meaningful contributions and earn the
> > >> >> >>>> privilege & responsibility of being committers.
> > >> >> >>>>
> > >> >> >>>> Thoughts?
> > >> >> >>>>
> > >> >> >>>> --travis
> > >> >> >>>>
> > >> >> >>>>
> > >> >> >>>>
> > >> >> >>>> On Thu, Dec 13, 2012 at 11:59 AM, Edward Capriolo <
> > >> >> edlinuxguru@gmail.com>
> > >> >> >>>> wrote:
> > >> >> >>>>> I initially was a hesitant of hcatalog mostly because I
> > >>imagined
> > >> >>we
> > >> >> >>>>> would
> > >> >> >>>>> end up in a spot very similar to this.
> > >> >> >>>>>
> > >> >> >>>>> Namely the hcatlog folks are interested in making a metastore
> > >>to
> > >> >> support
> > >> >> >>>>> pig, hive, and map reduce. However I get the impression that
> > >>many
> > >> >>in
> > >> >> >>>>> hive
> > >> >> >>>>> do not care much to have a metastore that caters to everyone.
> > >> >>Their
> > >> >> >>>>> needs
> > >> >> >>>>> are only based on what hive needs. Which I believe is the wrong
> > >> >>way
> > >> >> to
> > >> >> >>>>> look
> > >> >> >>>>> at this situation.
> > >> >> >>>>>
> > >> >> >>>>> I though to reply to this thread because I have been following
> > >> >>this
> > >> >> >>>>> Jira:
> > >> >> >>>>> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/HIVE-3752
> > >> >> >>>>>
> > >> >> >>>>> On a high level I do not like this duplication of effort and
> > >> >>code. If
> > >> >> >>>>> hive
> > >> >> >>>>> is compatible with hcatalog I do not see why we put off merging
> > >> >>the
> > >> >> two
> > >> >> >>>>> at
> > >> >> >>>>> all. Hive users would get an immediate benefit if Hive used
> > >> >>hcatalog
> > >> >> >>>>> with
> > >> >> >>>>> no apparent downside. Meanwhile we are putting this off and
> > >> >>staying
> > >> >> in
> > >> >> >>>>> this
> > >> >> >>>>> awkward transition phase.
> > >> >> >>>>>
> > >> >> >>>>> Personally, I do not have a problem being a hive committer and
> > >>not
> > >> >> >>>>> having
> > >> >> >>>>> hcatalog commit. None of the hive work I have done has ever
> > >> >>touched
> > >> >> the
> > >> >> >>>>> metastore. Also of the thousands of jiras and features we have
> > >> >>added
> > >> >> >>>>> only a
> > >> >> >>>>> small portion require metastore changes.
> > >> >> >>>>>
> > >> >> >>>>> As long as a couple active users have commit on hive and the
> > >> >> suggested
> > >> >> >>>>> hcatalog subproject I do not think not having commit will be a
> > >> >> >>>>> roadblock in
> > >> >> >>>>> moving hive forward.
> > >> >> >>>>>
> > >> >> >>>>>
> > >> >> >>>>> On Mon, Dec 3, 2012 at 6:22 PM, Alan Gates
> > >><gates@hortonworks.com
> > >> >
> > >> >> >>>>> wrote:
> > >> >> >>>>>
> > >> >> >>>>>> I am not sure where we are on this discussion. So far those
> > >>who
> > >> >> have
> > >> >> >>>>>> chimed in seemed generally positive (Namit, Edward, Clark,
> > >> >> Alexander).
> > >> >> >>>>>> Namit and I have different visions for what the committership
> > >> >>might
> > >> >> >>>>>> look
> > >> >> >>>>>> like, so I'd like to hear from other Hive PMC members what
> > >>their
> > >> >> view
> > >> >> >>>>>> is on
> > >> >> >>>>>> this. I have to say from an HCatalog perspective the
> > >> >>proposition is
> > >> >> >>>>>> much
> > >> >> >>>>>> less attractive without some commit rights.
> > >> >> >>>>>>
> > >> >> >>>>>> On a related note, people should be aware of these threads in
> > >>the
> > >> >> >>>>>> Incubator list:
> > >> >> >>>>>>
> > >> >> >>>>>>
> > >> >> >>>>>>
> > >> >> >>>
> > >> >>
> > >>
> > http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/incubator-general/201211.mbox/%
> > >> >> >>>>>> 3CCAGU5spdWHNtJxgQ8f%3DnPEXx9xNLjyjOYaFfnSw4EyAjgm1c46w%
> > >> >> >>> 40mail.gmail.com
> > >> >> >>>>>> %3E
> > >> >> >>>>>>
> > >> >> >>>>>>
> > >> >> >>>>>>
> > >> >> >>>>>>
> > >> >> >>>
> > >> >>
> > >>
> > http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/incubator-general/201211.mbox/%
> > >> >> >>>>>> 3CCAKQbXgDZj_zMj4qSodXjMHV7xQZxpcY1-35cvq959YKLNd6tJQ%
> > >> >> 40mail.gmail.com
> > >> >> >>> %3
> > >> >> >>>>>> E
> > >> >> >>>>>>
> > >> >> >>>>>> For those not inclined to read all the mails in the threads I
> > >> >>will
> > >> >> >>>>>> summarize (though I urge all PMC members of Hive and PPMC
> > >> >>members of
> > >> >> >>>>>> HCat
> > >> >> >>>>>> to read both mail threads because this is highly relevant to
> > >> >>what we
> > >> >> >>>>>> are
> > >> >> >>>>>> discussing). There are two salient points in these threads:
> > >> >> >>>>>>
> > >> >> >>>>>> 1) It is not wise to build a subproject that is distinct from
> > >>the
> > >> >> main
> > >> >> >>>>>> project in the sense that it has separate community members
> > >> >> interested
> > >> >> >>>>>> in
> > >> >> >>>>>> it. Bertrand, Arun, Chris Mattman, and Greg Stein all spoke
> > >> >>against
> > >> >> >>>>>> this,
> > >> >> >>>>>> and all are long time Apache contributors with a lot of
> > >> >>experience.
> > >> >> >>>>>> They
> > >> >> >>>>>> were all of the opinion that it was reasonable for one
> > >>project to
> > >> >> >>>>>> release
> > >> >> >>>>>> separate products.
> > >> >> >>>>>>
> > >> >> >>>>>> 2) It is not wise to have committers that have access to parts
> > >> >>of a
> > >> >> >>>>>> project but not others. Greg and Bertrand argued (and Arun
> > >> >>seemed
> > >> >> to
> > >> >> >>>>>> imply) that splitting up committer lists by sections of the
> > >>code
> > >> >>did
> > >> >> >>>>>> not
> > >> >> >>>>>> work out well.
> > >> >> >>>>>>
> > >> >> >>>>>> These insights cause me to question what we mean by
> > >>subproject.
> > >> >>I
> > >> >> had
> > >> >> >>>>>> originally envisioned something that looked like Pig and Hive
> > >>did
> > >> >> when
> > >> >> >>>>>> they
> > >> >> >>>>>> were subprojects of Hadoop. But this violates both 1 and 2
> > >> >>above.
> > >> >> >>>>>> Given
> > >> >> >>>>>> this input from many of the "wise old timers" of Apache I
> > >>think
> > >> >>we
> > >> >> >>>>>> should
> > >> >> >>>>>> consider what we mean when we say subproject and how tightly
> > >>we
> > >> >>are
> > >> >> >>>>>> willing
> > >> >> >>>>>> to integrate these projects. Personally I think it makes
> > >>sense
> > >> >>to
> > >> >> >>>>>> continue
> > >> >> >>>>>> to pursue integration, as I think HCat is really a set of
> > >> >>interfaces
> > >> >> >>>>>> on top
> > >> >> >>>>>> of Hive and it makes sense to coalesce those into one
> > >>project. I
> > >> >> guess
> > >> >> >>>>>> this would mean HCat becomes just another set of jars that
> > >>Hive
> > >> >> >>>>>> releases
> > >> >> >>>>>> when it releases, rather than a stand alone entity. But I'm
> > >> >> curious to
> > >> >> >>>>>> hear what others think.
> > >> >> >>>>>>
> > >> >> >>>>>> Alan.
> > >> >> >>>>>>
> > >> >> >>>>>> On Nov 14, 2012, at 10:22 PM, Namit Jain wrote:
> > >> >> >>>>>>
> > >> >> >>>>>>> The same criteria should be applied to all Hive committers.
> > >> >>Only a
> > >> >> >>>>>>> committer should be able to commit code.
> > >> >> >>>>>>> I don¹t think we should bend this rule. Metastore is not a
> > >> >>separate
> > >> >> >>>>>>> project, but a integral part of hive.
> > >> >> >>>>>>>
> > >> >> >>>>>>> -namit
> > >> >> >>>>>>>
> > >> >> >>>>>>>
> > >> >> >>>>>>> On 11/12/12 10:32 PM, "Alan Gates" <ga...@hortonworks.com>
> > >> >>wrote:
> > >> >> >>>>>>>
> > >> >> >>>>>>>> I would suggest looking over the patch history of HCat
> > >> >>committers.
> > >> >> >>>>>> I
> > >> >> >>>>>>>> think most of them have already contributed a number of
> > >> >>patches to
> > >> >> >>>>>> the
> > >> >> >>>>>>>> metastore. All are certainly aware of how to run Hive unit
> > >> >>tests
> > >> >> >>>>>> and
> > >> >> >>>>>>>> have an understanding of how Hive works. So I don't think
> > >>it's
> > >> >> >>>>>> fair to
> > >> >> >>>>>>>> say they would be unsafe with access to the metastore. And
> > >>the
> > >> >> >>>>>> Hive PMC
> > >> >> >>>>>>>> is there to assure this does not happen. If there are
> > >>issues
> > >> >>I am
> > >> >> >>>>>> sure
> > >> >> >>>>>>>> they can deal with them.
> > >> >> >>>>>>>>
> > >> >> >>>>>>>> Alan.
> > >> >> >>>>>>>>
> > >> >> >>>>>>>>
> > >> >> >>>>>>>> On Nov 6, 2012, at 8:06 PM, Namit Jain wrote:
> > >> >> >>>>>>>>
> > >> >> >>>>>>>>> Alan, that would not be a good idea. Metastore code is
> > >>part of
> > >> >> hive
> > >> >> >>>>>>>>> code,
> > >> >> >>>>>>>>> and it
> > >> >> >>>>>>>>> would be safer if only Hive committers had commit access to
> > >> >>that.
> > >> >> >>>>>>>>>
> > >> >> >>>>>>>>>
> > >> >> >>>>>>>>> On 11/6/12 11:25 PM, "Alan Gates" <ga...@hortonworks.com>
> > >> >>wrote:
> > >> >> >>>>>>>>>
> > >> >> >>>>>>>>>>
> > >> >> >>>>>>>>>> On Nov 4, 2012, at 8:35 PM, Namit Jain wrote:
> > >> >> >>>>>>>>>>
> > >> >> >>>>>>>>>>> I like the idea of Hcatalog becoming a Hive sub-project.
> > >>The
> > >> >> >>>>>>>>>>> enhancements/bugs in the serde/metastore areas can
> > >> >>indirectly
> > >> >> >>>>>>>>>>> benefit the hive community, and it will be easier for the
> > >> >>fix
> > >> >> to
> > >> >> >>>>>> be
> > >> >> >>>>>> in
> > >> >> >>>>>>>>>>> one
> > >> >> >>>>>>>>>>> place. Having said that, I don't see serde/metastore
> > >> >> >>>>>>>>>>> moving out of hive into a separate component. Things are
> > >> >>tied
> > >> >> too
> > >> >> >>>>>>>>>>> closely
> > >> >> >>>>>>>>>>> together. I am assuming that no new committers would
> > >> >> >>>>>>>>>>> be automatically added to Hive as part of this, and both
> > >> >>Hive
> > >> >> and
> > >> >> >>>>>>>>>>> HCatalog
> > >> >> >>>>>>>>>>> will continue to have its own committers.
> > >> >> >>>>>>>>>>
> > >> >> >>>>>>>>>> One thing in this we'd like to discuss is the HCatalog
> > >> >> committers
> > >> >> >>>>>>>>>> having
> > >> >> >>>>>>>>>> commit access to the metastore sections of Hive code.
> > >>That
> > >> >> >>>>>> doesn't
> > >> >> >>>>>>>>>> mean
> > >> >> >>>>>>>>>> it has to move into HCatalog's code base. But more and
> > >>more
> > >> >>the
> > >> >> >>>>>> fixes
> > >> >> >>>>>>>>>> and changes we're doing in HCatalog are really in Hive's
> > >> >> >>>>>> metastore.
> > >> >> >>>>>> So
> > >> >> >>>>>>>>>> we believe it would make sense to give HCat committers
> > >> >>access to
> > >> >> >>>>>> that
> > >> >> >>>>>>>>>> component as well as HCat.
> > >> >> >>>>>>>>>>
> > >> >> >>>>>>>>>> Alan.
> > >> >> >>>>>>>>>>
> > >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>
> > >> >> >>>>>>>>>>> Thanks,
> > >> >> >>>>>>>>>>> -namit
> > >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>
> > >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>
> > >> >> >>>>>>>>>>> On 11/3/12 2:22 AM, "Alan Gates" <ga...@hortonworks.com>
> > >> >> wrote:
> > >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>
> > >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> Hello Hive community. It is time for HCatalog to
> > >>graduate
> > >> >> from
> > >> >> >>>>>> the
> > >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> Apache Incubator. Given the heavy dependence of
> > >>HCatalog
> > >> >>on
> > >> >> >>>>>> Hive
> > >> >> >>>>>> the
> > >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> HCatalog community agreed it made sense to explore
> > >> >>graduating
> > >> >> >>>>>> from
> > >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> the
> > >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> Incubator to become a subproject of Hive (see
> > >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >> >> >>>>>>
> > >> >>
> > >>http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/incubator-hcatalog-user/20120
> > >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> 9.
> > >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> mb
> > >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >> >>ox/%3C08C40723-8D4D-48EB-942B-8EE4327DD84A%40hortonworks.com
> > >> >> %3E
> > >> >> >>>>>> and
> > >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >> >> >>>>>>
> > >> >>
> > >>http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/incubator-hcatalog-user/20121
> > >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> 0.
> > >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> mb
> > >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >> >> >>>>>>
> > >> >>
> > >>ox/%3CCABN7xTCRM5wXGgJKEko0PmqDXhuAYpK%2BD-H57T29zcSGhkwGQw%40mail.gma
> > >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> il
> > >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> .c
> > >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> om%3E ). To help both communities understand what
> > >> >>HCatalog is
> > >> >> >>>>>> and
> > >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> hopes
> > >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> to become we also developed a roadmap that summarizes
> > >> >> HCatalog's
> > >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> current
> > >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> features, planned features, and other possible features
> > >> >>under
> > >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> discussion:
> > >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >> >> >>>>>>
> > >> >>
> > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/HCATALOG/HCatalog+Roadmap
> > >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> So we are now approaching you to see if there is
> > >>agreement
> > >> >>in
> > >> >> >>>>>> the
> > >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> Hive
> > >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> community that HCatalog graduating into Hive would make
> > >> >>sense.
> > >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> Alan.
> > >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>
> > >> >> >>>>>>>>>>
> > >> >> >>>>>>>>>
> > >> >> >>>>>>>>
> > >> >> >>>>>>>
> > >> >> >>>>>>
> > >> >> >>>>>>
> > >> >> >>>
> > >> >> >>>
> > >> >> >
> > >> >>
> > >>
> > >>
> >
> >
>
Re: [DISCUSS] HCatalog becoming a subproject of Hive
Posted by Alan Gates <ga...@hortonworks.com>.
Changes made.
Alan.
On Jan 21, 2013, at 12:39 PM, Carl Steinbach wrote:
> Hi Alan,
>
> Overall this looks good to me. I have a couple small suggestions:
>
> * Replace occurrences of "Hive's subversion repository" with "Hive's
> source code repository".
> * In the "Actions" table the sentence "This also covers the creation of new
> sub-projects within the project" should be changed to "This also covers the
> creation of new sub-projects and sub-modules within the project."
>
> Thanks.
>
> Carl
>
>
> On Fri, Jan 18, 2013 at 4:42 PM, Alan Gates <ga...@hortonworks.com> wrote:
>
>> I've created a wiki page for my proposed changes at
>> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/Hive/Proposed+Changes+to+Hive+Bylaws+for+Submodule+Committers
>>
>> Text to be removed is struck through. Text to be added is in italics.
>>
>> Any recommended changes before we vote?
>>
>> Alan.
>>
>>
>> On Jan 17, 2013, at 2:08 PM, Carl Steinbach wrote:
>>
>>> Sounds like a good plan to me. Since Ashutosh is a member of both the
>> Hive
>>> and HCatalog PMCs it probably makes more sense for him to call the vote,
>>> but I'm willing to do it too.
>>>
>>> On Wed, Jan 16, 2013 at 8:24 AM, Alan Gates <ga...@hortonworks.com>
>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> If you think that's the best path forward that's fine. I can't call a
>>>> vote I don't think, since I'm not part of the Hive PMC. But I'm happy
>> to
>>>> draft a resolution for you and then let you call the vote. Should I do
>>>> that?
>>>>
>>>> Alan.
>>>>
>>>> On Jan 11, 2013, at 4:34 PM, Carl Steinbach wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hi Alan,
>>>>>
>>>>> I agree that submitting this for a vote is the best option.
>>>>>
>>>>> If anyone has additional proposed modifications please make them.
>>>> Otherwise I propose that the Hive PMC vote on this proposal.
>>>>>
>>>>> In order for the Hive PMC to be able to vote on these changes they need
>>>> to be expressed in terms of one or more of the "actions" listed at the
>> end
>>>> of the Hive project bylaws:
>>>>>
>>>>> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/Hive/Bylaws
>>>>>
>>>>> So I think we first need to amend to the bylaws in order to define the
>>>> rights and privileges of a submodule committer, and then separately vote
>>>> the HCatalog committers in as Hive submodule committers. Does this make
>>>> sense?
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks.
>>>>>
>>>>> Carl
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>
>>
Re: [DISCUSS] HCatalog becoming a subproject of Hive
Posted by Carl Steinbach <cw...@gmail.com>.
Hi Alan,
Overall this looks good to me. I have a couple small suggestions:
* Replace occurrences of "Hive's subversion repository" with "Hive's
source code repository".
* In the "Actions" table the sentence "This also covers the creation of new
sub-projects within the project" should be changed to "This also covers the
creation of new sub-projects and sub-modules within the project."
Thanks.
Carl
On Fri, Jan 18, 2013 at 4:42 PM, Alan Gates <ga...@hortonworks.com> wrote:
> I've created a wiki page for my proposed changes at
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/Hive/Proposed+Changes+to+Hive+Bylaws+for+Submodule+Committers
>
> Text to be removed is struck through. Text to be added is in italics.
>
> Any recommended changes before we vote?
>
> Alan.
>
>
> On Jan 17, 2013, at 2:08 PM, Carl Steinbach wrote:
>
> > Sounds like a good plan to me. Since Ashutosh is a member of both the
> Hive
> > and HCatalog PMCs it probably makes more sense for him to call the vote,
> > but I'm willing to do it too.
> >
> > On Wed, Jan 16, 2013 at 8:24 AM, Alan Gates <ga...@hortonworks.com>
> wrote:
> >
> >> If you think that's the best path forward that's fine. I can't call a
> >> vote I don't think, since I'm not part of the Hive PMC. But I'm happy
> to
> >> draft a resolution for you and then let you call the vote. Should I do
> >> that?
> >>
> >> Alan.
> >>
> >> On Jan 11, 2013, at 4:34 PM, Carl Steinbach wrote:
> >>
> >>> Hi Alan,
> >>>
> >>> I agree that submitting this for a vote is the best option.
> >>>
> >>> If anyone has additional proposed modifications please make them.
> >> Otherwise I propose that the Hive PMC vote on this proposal.
> >>>
> >>> In order for the Hive PMC to be able to vote on these changes they need
> >> to be expressed in terms of one or more of the "actions" listed at the
> end
> >> of the Hive project bylaws:
> >>>
> >>> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/Hive/Bylaws
> >>>
> >>> So I think we first need to amend to the bylaws in order to define the
> >> rights and privileges of a submodule committer, and then separately vote
> >> the HCatalog committers in as Hive submodule committers. Does this make
> >> sense?
> >>>
> >>> Thanks.
> >>>
> >>> Carl
> >>>
> >>
> >>
>
>
Re: [DISCUSS] HCatalog becoming a subproject of Hive
Posted by Alan Gates <ga...@hortonworks.com>.
I've created a wiki page for my proposed changes at https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/Hive/Proposed+Changes+to+Hive+Bylaws+for+Submodule+Committers
Text to be removed is struck through. Text to be added is in italics.
Any recommended changes before we vote?
Alan.
On Jan 17, 2013, at 2:08 PM, Carl Steinbach wrote:
> Sounds like a good plan to me. Since Ashutosh is a member of both the Hive
> and HCatalog PMCs it probably makes more sense for him to call the vote,
> but I'm willing to do it too.
>
> On Wed, Jan 16, 2013 at 8:24 AM, Alan Gates <ga...@hortonworks.com> wrote:
>
>> If you think that's the best path forward that's fine. I can't call a
>> vote I don't think, since I'm not part of the Hive PMC. But I'm happy to
>> draft a resolution for you and then let you call the vote. Should I do
>> that?
>>
>> Alan.
>>
>> On Jan 11, 2013, at 4:34 PM, Carl Steinbach wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Alan,
>>>
>>> I agree that submitting this for a vote is the best option.
>>>
>>> If anyone has additional proposed modifications please make them.
>> Otherwise I propose that the Hive PMC vote on this proposal.
>>>
>>> In order for the Hive PMC to be able to vote on these changes they need
>> to be expressed in terms of one or more of the "actions" listed at the end
>> of the Hive project bylaws:
>>>
>>> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/Hive/Bylaws
>>>
>>> So I think we first need to amend to the bylaws in order to define the
>> rights and privileges of a submodule committer, and then separately vote
>> the HCatalog committers in as Hive submodule committers. Does this make
>> sense?
>>>
>>> Thanks.
>>>
>>> Carl
>>>
>>
>>
Re: [DISCUSS] HCatalog becoming a subproject of Hive
Posted by Carl Steinbach <cw...@gmail.com>.
Sounds like a good plan to me. Since Ashutosh is a member of both the Hive
and HCatalog PMCs it probably makes more sense for him to call the vote,
but I'm willing to do it too.
On Wed, Jan 16, 2013 at 8:24 AM, Alan Gates <ga...@hortonworks.com> wrote:
> If you think that's the best path forward that's fine. I can't call a
> vote I don't think, since I'm not part of the Hive PMC. But I'm happy to
> draft a resolution for you and then let you call the vote. Should I do
> that?
>
> Alan.
>
> On Jan 11, 2013, at 4:34 PM, Carl Steinbach wrote:
>
> > Hi Alan,
> >
> > I agree that submitting this for a vote is the best option.
> >
> > If anyone has additional proposed modifications please make them.
> Otherwise I propose that the Hive PMC vote on this proposal.
> >
> > In order for the Hive PMC to be able to vote on these changes they need
> to be expressed in terms of one or more of the "actions" listed at the end
> of the Hive project bylaws:
> >
> > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/Hive/Bylaws
> >
> > So I think we first need to amend to the bylaws in order to define the
> rights and privileges of a submodule committer, and then separately vote
> the HCatalog committers in as Hive submodule committers. Does this make
> sense?
> >
> > Thanks.
> >
> > Carl
> >
>
>
Re: [DISCUSS] HCatalog becoming a subproject of Hive
Posted by Alan Gates <ga...@hortonworks.com>.
If you think that's the best path forward that's fine. I can't call a vote I don't think, since I'm not part of the Hive PMC. But I'm happy to draft a resolution for you and then let you call the vote. Should I do that?
Alan.
On Jan 11, 2013, at 4:34 PM, Carl Steinbach wrote:
> Hi Alan,
>
> I agree that submitting this for a vote is the best option.
>
> If anyone has additional proposed modifications please make them. Otherwise I propose that the Hive PMC vote on this proposal.
>
> In order for the Hive PMC to be able to vote on these changes they need to be expressed in terms of one or more of the "actions" listed at the end of the Hive project bylaws:
>
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/Hive/Bylaws
>
> So I think we first need to amend to the bylaws in order to define the rights and privileges of a submodule committer, and then separately vote the HCatalog committers in as Hive submodule committers. Does this make sense?
>
> Thanks.
>
> Carl
>
Re: [DISCUSS] HCatalog becoming a subproject of Hive
Posted by Carl Steinbach <cw...@apache.org>.
Hi Alan,
I agree that submitting this for a vote is the best option.
> If anyone has additional proposed modifications please make them.
> Otherwise I propose that the Hive PMC vote on this proposal.
>
In order for the Hive PMC to be able to vote on these changes they need to
be expressed in terms of one or more of the "actions" listed at the end of
the Hive project bylaws:
https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/Hive/Bylaws
So I think we first need to amend to the bylaws in order to define the
rights and privileges of a submodule committer, and then separately vote
the HCatalog committers in as Hive submodule committers. Does this make
sense?
Thanks.
Carl