Incubator Workshop

[Justin Mclean <ju...@classsoftware.com>]

Hi,

A few month back I ran an incubator workshop at FOSS backstage that covered making and voting on releases and voting on committers into the projects. It had several exercises

Would anyone be interested in either a:
1) Online self-paced version
2) Online live version (i.e. me going through it) with Q+A at the end. This could be recorded and put up for other to watch after it’s taken place.

Now I’m probably talking to the wrong audience here, and this email might be better if it was sent out to podlings dev lists, and in particular ones new to the incubator? If the mentors of  those prolongs think it would be of interest please forward this email.

The workshop didn’t cover entry into graduation, naming, IP clearance, trademarks, branding or graduation process. Which I’d like to expand on and it would be great to have some help on producing content for that.

Thanks,
Justin

Re: Incubator Workshop

[Willem Jiang <wi...@gmail.com>]

Yeah, I'm totally agree with that.
From my experience, I really learn a lot by checking the mail thread
discussion and verifying the kit myself with the help of checklist.
Maybe we can encourage the people to participate the vote in the
general@incubator to get the field experience.

Willem Jiang

Twitter: willemjiang
Weibo: 姜宁willem

On Mon, Sep 10, 2018 at 8:49 AM Justin Mclean <ju...@classsoftware.com> wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> > I think an online version would be really helpful.
> > As for the self-paced version, I think just making the recording available
> > later should be enough.
>
> The reason I suggested a self paced one it that includes a number of activities, checking a real release, voting on committers and teh like. I think that some people will get more out of it if they are active participant rather than just watching a video of me talking and my slides.
>
> Thanks,
> Justin
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>

---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org

Re: Incubator Workshop

[Justin Mclean <ju...@classsoftware.com>]

Hi,

> Would such a course seek to teach the principles or the rules?

It’s currently an hour long, and while I do/would explain why some things are done that way, it’s not a deep dive into the underlying principles as I don’t think there enough time to do that. I think it’s easier to know policy and then understand why it that way and how the preinicaples apply, rather than the other way about, but I could be mistaken.

You're welcome to review it and give feedback on it which I’ll take into consideration and apply. I use the Apache Wombat material I made some time ago, a real release of an incubating project Pony Mail, and review a real (unnamed) TLP project LICENSE and NOTICE file and give some simple scenarios/candidates for committership and have an open discussion of if people should be committers. They are no correct answers to if the release should be released (but it probably should be), the LICENSE and NOTICE are OK (they have a few issues), or if the committers should be voted in ( it would depend on the PMC in question), that is all up to the participants.

> I ask because your original proposal says " making and voting on releases and voting on committers into the projects". There are no ***rules*** about having to vote. There are principles about how to build and recognize consensus. But, despite what much of the incubator documentation says, there are no formal rules about it.

If you look at the incubator policy [1] you’ll note it uses MUST and SHALL quite carefully (as per [2]), no where does it say releases MUST be voted on so yes I’m aware a formal vote is not required. However I’m only aware of one TLP project that doesn’t vote on committers/releases in the way that most projects do (Apache SVN) and vaguely remember them making major changes on how releases were made at some point after one didn’t go so well. The exact detail of those differences I’m unaware of. I can’t recall a single incubator project in the last 5 years that hasn’t voted on releases. Anyone know of other examples where projects don’t vote on releases or committers? Is so please share them.

> I'm 100% for teaching people the principles of consensus building around releases and honoring people with committership. Even better if such a course gave concrete examples of how different communities apply those principles in different ways.

If anyone (including you) can give me examples then I’ll certainly use them. The projects I’m involved in (or have been involved in) are certainly quite different to each other but I can't think of any major ways (with the exception of the Incubator) that they apply the principles in different ways. Some have set different bars for committership and some more welcoming than others but that’s not really a big difference in that regard.

> However, I'm 100% against an opinionated piece that gives the impression that there is only one way to do things here in Apache. We already have way too much of that in Incubator docs.

Patches are welcome.

Thanks,
Justin

1. https://incubator.apache.org/policy/incubation.html
2. https://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc2119.txt
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org

RE: Incubator Workshop

[ro...@gardler.org]

Would such a course seek to teach the principles or the rules?

I ask because your original proposal says " making and voting on releases and voting on committers into the projects". There are no ***rules*** about having to vote. There are principles about how to build and recognize consensus. But, despite what much of the incubator documentation says, there are no formal rules about it.

I'm 100% for teaching people the principles of consensus building around releases and honoring people with committership. Even better if such a course gave concrete examples of how different communities apply those principles in different ways. However, I'm 100% against an opinionated piece that gives the impression that there is only one way to do things here in Apache. We already have way too much of that in Incubator docs.

Ross

-----Original Message-----
From: Justin Mclean <ju...@classsoftware.com> 
Sent: Monday, September 10, 2018 3:54 PM
To: general@incubator.apache.org
Subject: Re: Incubator Workshop

Hi,

> For my part, most courseware is just an *extremely* slow form of 
> reading. I really don't need to have somebody read to me.

I tend to agree I also prefer to read something than watch a video, when I do I using speed it up. However different people learn in different ways. Currently we have a couple of ways people learn this stuff; from the website, by guidance by mentors, discussion on mailing lists, and possibly from conferences or conference recordings. I’ve just finished a qualification in adult learning and some of the biggest takeaways from it was people learn in differs ways but learn best when exposed to a a variety of ways and the effectiveness of the “do it fast”, “do it slow”, “let them do it” method for learning practical skills.

Thanks,
Justin


---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org



---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org

Re: Incubator Workshop

[Justin Mclean <ju...@classsoftware.com>]

Hi,

> For my part, most courseware is just an *extremely* slow form of reading. I
> really don't need to have somebody read to me.

I tend to agree I also prefer to read something than watch a video, when I do I using speed it up. However different people learn in different ways. Currently we have a couple of ways people learn this stuff; from the website, by guidance by mentors, discussion on mailing lists, and possibly from conferences or conference recordings. I’ve just finished a qualification in adult learning and some of the biggest takeaways from it was people learn in differs ways but learn best when exposed to a a variety of ways and the effectiveness of the “do it fast”, “do it slow”, “let them do it” method for learning practical skills.

Thanks,
Justin


---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org

Re: Incubator Workshop

[Ted Dunning <te...@gmail.com>]

If the course doesn't involve actually doing things like checking releases,
then a good, well indexed and cross referenced FAQ page is more useful (and
the ones we have are very useful, speaking from experience).

For my part, most courseware is just an *extremely* slow form of reading. I
really don't need to have somebody read to me.



On Sun, Sep 9, 2018 at 8:49 PM Justin Mclean <ju...@classsoftware.com>
wrote:

> Hi,
>
> > I think an online version would be really helpful.
> > As for the self-paced version, I think just making the recording
> available
> > later should be enough.
>
> The reason I suggested a self paced one it that includes a number of
> activities, checking a real release, voting on committers and teh like. I
> think that some people will get more out of it if they are active
> participant rather than just watching a video of me talking and my slides.
>
> Thanks,
> Justin
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>
>

Re: Incubator Workshop

[Justin Mclean <ju...@classsoftware.com>]

Hi,

> I think an online version would be really helpful.
> As for the self-paced version, I think just making the recording available
> later should be enough.

The reason I suggested a self paced one it that includes a number of activities, checking a real release, voting on committers and teh like. I think that some people will get more out of it if they are active participant rather than just watching a video of me talking and my slides.

Thanks,
Justin
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org

Re: Incubator Workshop

[Yaniv Rodenski <ya...@shinto.io>]

Hi Justin,

I think an online version would be really helpful.
As for the self-paced version, I think just making the recording available
later should be enough.

Cheers,
Yaniv

On Mon, 10 Sep 2018 at 10:30 am, Justin Mclean <ju...@classsoftware.com>
wrote:

> Hi,
>
> A few month back I ran an incubator workshop at FOSS backstage that
> covered making and voting on releases and voting on committers into the
> projects. It had several exercises
>
> Would anyone be interested in either a:
> 1) Online self-paced version
> 2) Online live version (i.e. me going through it) with Q+A at the end.
> This could be recorded and put up for other to watch after it’s taken place.
>
> Now I’m probably talking to the wrong audience here, and this email might
> be better if it was sent out to podlings dev lists, and in particular ones
> new to the incubator? If the mentors of  those prolongs think it would be
> of interest please forward this email.
>
> The workshop didn’t cover entry into graduation, naming, IP clearance,
> trademarks, branding or graduation process. Which I’d like to expand on and
> it would be great to have some help on producing content for that.
>
> Thanks,
> Justin

-- 
Yaniv Rodenski

+61 477 778 405
yaniv@shinto.io