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Posted to community@apache.org by "Daniel F. Savarese" <df...@savarese.org> on 2009/03/30 02:25:21 UTC
Re: Topic-based mailing lists
In message <51...@mail.gmail.com>, Jukka
Zitting writes:
>rest-interest@, jcr-interest@, build-interest@, etc. Whatever topic
>where two more projects have a shared interest and believe that they
>could benefit from a low volume forum where they could coordinate
>their efforts and exchange experience and code.
>
>WDYT?
I have long thought it would be useful to have topic-oriented mailing
lists at Apache, but not necessarily restricted to the purpose of
inter-project cooperation.
Apache committers represent a large amount of development
expertise, but we have no vehicle for tapping into that expertise
outside of the context of working on a specific Apache project. The
discussion of more general development topics is considered off-topic
for any particular project list. For example, a good number of years
ago I wanted to consult fellow Apache committers about techniques for
implementing real-time cross-browser communication (what eventually became
known as comet), but I couldn't post to a project-specific list because
it would have been considered off-topic. Instead of having an open
technical discussion at Apache that could have led to the creation of
a new incubator project or enhancement of an existing Apache project, I
had closed discussions that led to the development of proprietary
products.
To support both inter-project cooperation and more general
cross-project committer software development discussions, I would
recommend starting with a single general software development discussion
list for committers. If there's enough traffic of a non-ephemeral nature
on a particular topic (e.g., the osgi, http, rest, etc. examples), then
split it off into a new mailing list. I think that would provide a medium
for cross-pollination and collaboration while minimizing the risk of
-interest lists becoming desert islands shortly after creation.
daniel
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Re: Topic-based mailing lists
Posted by Jukka Zitting <ju...@gmail.com>.
Hi,
On Mon, Mar 30, 2009 at 2:25 AM, Daniel F. Savarese <df...@savarese.org> wrote:
> To support both inter-project cooperation and more general
> cross-project committer software development discussions, I would
> recommend starting with a single general software development discussion
> list for committers.
At the ApacheCon we discussed using this currently rather quiet
community@ list for such a purpose, but there were fears that too big
an audience would just reduce the signal/noise ratio of the list for
everyone.
But yeah, if people here won't complain about seeing more high-level
technical discussions about specific technologies, then I wouldn't
mind following your idea of branching off common topics to separate
lists only when the related traffic becomes too big for a generic list
like this.
BR,
Jukka Zitting
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Re: Topic-based mailing lists
Posted by Serge Knystautas <se...@lokitech.com>.
Robert Burrell Donkin wrote:
> J Aaron Farr wrote:
>> On Tue 31 Mar 2009 21:34, Henri Yandell <hy...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Use community@ - if people get annoyed they'll voice that and the
>>> correct context list can be created. Community gets used so rarely
>>> that I don't have a filter for it, so there's nothing to complain
>>> about yet and you're making make work.
>> +1 for using community@
>>
>> general@jakarta used to be like that. Some people loved it. Some
>> people didn't. Personally, I think we as a foundation have lost
>> "something" as Jakarta has disbanded. A lively general discussion list
>> is useful. And members@ is too closed.
>
> +1
>
> IMHO there's a definitely feeling in the air that we lost - as well as
> gained - when jakarta was disbanded, and that now's the time to start
> doing something about it.
+1
--
Serge Knystautas
Lokitech >> software . strategy . design >> http://www.lokitech.com
p. 301.656.5501
e. sergek@lokitech.com
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Re: Topic-based mailing lists
Posted by Robert Burrell Donkin <rd...@apache.org>.
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J Aaron Farr wrote:
> On Tue 31 Mar 2009 21:34, Henri Yandell <hy...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Use community@ - if people get annoyed they'll voice that and the
>> correct context list can be created. Community gets used so rarely
>> that I don't have a filter for it, so there's nothing to complain
>> about yet and you're making make work.
>
> +1 for using community@
>
> general@jakarta used to be like that. Some people loved it. Some
> people didn't. Personally, I think we as a foundation have lost
> "something" as Jakarta has disbanded. A lively general discussion list
> is useful. And members@ is too closed.
+1
IMHO there's a definitely feeling in the air that we lost - as well as
gained - when jakarta was disbanded, and that now's the time to start
doing something about it.
it didn't make sense to devote effort to this until the new way was
bedded in. the incubator is now working ok (we need to complete the
documentation but i talked to a few people at apachecon, and we'll get
that done over the next few months).
i'm going to formally introduce this idea over on members in a few days,
but the idea i kicked around at ApacheCon was introducing a new
organisational unit ("a theme" - projects on the right and themes on the
left). the aim would be to be like the non-code part of Jakarta which
worked well as a spur to the development of serverside java.
this is basically an cross cut integration project and is only allowed
to talk (documentation, mailing lists, committers, PMC as per standard
projects but no code and no releases). so, it would have to work with
other projects to achieve it's goals. themes would also use the
incubator access rule (conventional access to PMC/committership for
members/committers, others by invitation).
themes would provide the members and the board with a vehicle for long
term, strategic plans spanning many projects. the initial worked example
would be "Apache Cloud" a hub and focus for cloud related activity
especially the tooling that's required across projects.
> The trouble with a general@ list is that it's hard to build a specific
> community there. Just because there are occasional good threads about,
> say, osgi on a general@ list, why would a non-ASF committer subscribe to
> general@ instead of existing osgi specific mailing lists?
>
> So I think you have to consider your goal:
>
> If you want to create a public community for discussing a specific
> topic, then specific interest lists are appropriate, either here or
> outside the ASF, such as Google Groups.
>
> If you want to bounce ideas around other people already inside the ASF,
> then use a general list like community@. You can always move the
> discussion elsewhere if necessary.
+1
i would like to suggest that we encourage PMCs to approach the board
with requests for general lists supervised by their PMC. for example,
ATM OSGi talk is starting to converge on felix but risks - in the long
term - drowning development work there. it would make sense to encourage
felix to be able to ask the board for permission to host a general OSGi
list for apache even though that's technically out of scope for the project.
- - robert
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Re: Topic-based mailing lists
Posted by J Aaron Farr <fa...@apache.org>.
On Tue 31 Mar 2009 21:34, Henri Yandell <hy...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Use community@ - if people get annoyed they'll voice that and the
> correct context list can be created. Community gets used so rarely
> that I don't have a filter for it, so there's nothing to complain
> about yet and you're making make work.
+1 for using community@
general@jakarta used to be like that. Some people loved it. Some
people didn't. Personally, I think we as a foundation have lost
"something" as Jakarta has disbanded. A lively general discussion list
is useful. And members@ is too closed.
The trouble with a general@ list is that it's hard to build a specific
community there. Just because there are occasional good threads about,
say, osgi on a general@ list, why would a non-ASF committer subscribe to
general@ instead of existing osgi specific mailing lists?
So I think you have to consider your goal:
If you want to create a public community for discussing a specific
topic, then specific interest lists are appropriate, either here or
outside the ASF, such as Google Groups.
If you want to bounce ideas around other people already inside the ASF,
then use a general list like community@. You can always move the
discussion elsewhere if necessary.
--
J Aaron Farr jadetower.com [US] +1 724-964-4515
馮傑仁 cubiclemuses.com [HK] +852 8123-7905
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Re: Topic-based mailing lists
Posted by Henri Yandell <hy...@gmail.com>.
On Tue, Mar 31, 2009 at 10:04 AM, Bertrand Delacretaz
<bd...@apache.org> wrote:
> On Mon, Mar 30, 2009 at 2:25 AM, Daniel F. Savarese <df...@savarese.org> wrote:
>> ...To support both inter-project cooperation and more general
>> cross-project committer software development discussions, I would
>> recommend starting with a single general software development discussion
>> list for committers. If there's enough traffic of a non-ephemeral nature
>> on a particular topic (e.g., the osgi, http, rest, etc. examples), then
>> split it off into a new mailing list....
>
> +1
>
> I suggest creating a new list for that (tech@apache.org ?) so as to
> avoid people unsubscribing from this community@apache.org list if it
> becomes too busy.
>
> And require people to use [tags] in subject lines for filtering.
The answer is pretty standard.
Use community@ - if people get annoyed they'll voice that and the
correct context list can be created. Community gets used so rarely
that I don't have a filter for it, so there's nothing to complain
about yet and you're making make work.
The XML stuff could have been discussed here for example with a note
sent out to the relevant lists to make sure they were subscribed.
Hen
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Re: Topic-based mailing lists
Posted by Bertrand Delacretaz <bd...@apache.org>.
On Mon, Mar 30, 2009 at 2:25 AM, Daniel F. Savarese <df...@savarese.org> wrote:
> ...To support both inter-project cooperation and more general
> cross-project committer software development discussions, I would
> recommend starting with a single general software development discussion
> list for committers. If there's enough traffic of a non-ephemeral nature
> on a particular topic (e.g., the osgi, http, rest, etc. examples), then
> split it off into a new mailing list....
+1
I suggest creating a new list for that (tech@apache.org ?) so as to
avoid people unsubscribing from this community@apache.org list if it
becomes too busy.
And require people to use [tags] in subject lines for filtering.
-Bertrand
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