Fwd: Google Summer of Code

[Xavier Hanin <xa...@gmail.com>]

Forwarded message below.

Is it something that could be interesting for us? Who can propose an idea (I
mean, do you need to be an ASF member?).

I'm wondering if submitting an idea around Ivy/OSGi integration could be
interesting. OSGi gains more and more momentum, and it seems that using a
dependency manager like Ivy on an OSGi based project could be interesting,
especially if Ivy had an OSGi manifest parser (as the pom parser).

WDYT?

- Xavier

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Jukka Zitting <ju...@gmail.com>
Date: Mar 14, 2007 3:06 PM
Subject: Fwd: Google Summer of Code
To: general@incubator.apache.org

Hi,

Woden and Tuscany have already proposed GSoC projects. Other
incubating projects might also be interested.

Notice the tight timeframe, if your project is interested then you
need to move quickly.

BR,

Jukka Zitting

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Ross Gardler <rg...@apache.org>
Date: Mar 14, 2007 3:53 PM
Subject: Google Summer of Code
To: code-awards@apadche.org, members@apache.org


Google are due to announce the accepted organisations in the Google
Summer of Code today. Unfortunately, I've been really busy with other
things recently and have not managed to organise the ASF application as
well as I might. However, I did manage to notify the code-awards@a.o
list of the process and I did get an application in on time. So, now to
the next stage.

This message is mailed to members@ as well as code-awards@. Please feel
free to distribute to your projects, I chose not to send to community@
or committers@ because I'm aware different projects like to manage GSoC
applications in different ways. It's up to the members to take this
forward in individual projects.

Student applications will open today and will close on March 24th.

If your projects want to accept applications from GSoC students then you
need to ensure you have details listed on
http://wiki.apache.org/general/SummerOfCode2007

If you want more info on what being a mentor means then a good place to
start is
http://code.google.com/p/google-summer-of-code/wiki/AdviceforMentors

Interested parties should also subscribe to code-awards@a.o where all
internal communication about GSoC occurs (like how we select which
projects to accept).

Ross

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To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
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Re: Google Summer of Code

[Xavier Hanin <xa...@gmail.com>]

On 3/14/07, Eric Crahen <er...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> On 3/14/07, Xavier Hanin <xa...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > On 3/14/07, Eric Crahen <er...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > One thing that the Spring-OSGi guys are working on is a way to
> leverage
> > > the
> > > dependency information within Maven pom's to extrapolate OSGi
> > > dependencies.
> >
> >
> > I haven't checked their work in detail for the moment, so I may be
> wrong,
> > but the problem I see is that you have information in an osgi manifest
> > that
> > can't be found in a maven pom nor an ivy file: exports. That's why I
> think
> > with Ivy it would be better to use directly OSGi manifest if we can get
> > enough metadata from it.
> >
> > The goal being not to have to duplicate the dependency information.
> >
>
> Right, I think there is a subtle difference in what we're talking about
>
> * OSGi - > Ivy adapter for Ivy.
>
> I think the only thing that makes what we are talking about different is
> that I think you are saying you want Ivy to be able to understand OSGi so
> you have one more place for information. This helps someone who uses Ivy
> leverage a component that is OSGi ready; but it doesn't  necessarily help
> someone using OSGi-Spring.
>
> USE-CASE:
>
> I have a project with dependencies that are have no Ivy descriptors and
> have
> no Maven descriptors. For some reason they do have OSGi descriptors and
> I'd
> like to leverage that.
>
> * Ivy->OSGi adapter for OSGi-Spring.
>
> What I'm saying is that OSGi-Spring is coming at the problem the opposite
> end. They want OSGI-Spring to be able to understand Maven, or in our case
> Ivy. This helps someone using OSGi-Spring leverage a component from Maven
> or
> Ivy even if that component doesn't contain OSGi descriptors, which there
> are
> various reasons for. It doesn't let someone using Ivy suddenly have more
> artifacts at thier disposale, but it does make it so that if you are using
> OSGi-Spring you can use anything thats Ivy ready.
>
> USE-CASE:
>
> I wrote OSGi component. My OSGi component has a ton of transitive
> dependencies. These all better be OSGi ready or I will have problems and
> I'm
> going to have to go off and transitively  make all my dependencies OSGi
> ready. This is not good - but many components already have Ivy or Maven
> descriptors, wouldn't it be great if OSGi could just speak to pom.xml or
> ivy.xml and figure things out.
>
> This enables people to leverage Ivy who may not even be using it
> themselves.
> I might do everything by hand with ant, but when I slam everything into my
> OSGi-Spring container, the container is smart enough to figure out my
> dependencies for me using Ivy information.


Ok, thanks for the clarification. So I think both would be useful, and the
second is something that would need to be contributed to Spring-OSGi.
Speaking about OSGi, I think we would also need to discuss with Felix team,
I think they provide a maven 2 plugin, maybe we should see what it does and
if this is something that could be achieved with Ant+Ivy.

For the moment, I consider these topics as very interesting, but I don't
have enough time myself to invest in them. But if somebody want, I'd be glad
to help whenever I can.

- Xavier

--
>
> - Eric
>

Re: Google Summer of Code

[Eric Crahen <er...@gmail.com>]

On 3/14/07, Xavier Hanin <xa...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> On 3/14/07, Eric Crahen <er...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > One thing that the Spring-OSGi guys are working on is a way to leverage
> > the
> > dependency information within Maven pom's to extrapolate OSGi
> > dependencies.
>
>
> I haven't checked their work in detail for the moment, so I may be wrong,
> but the problem I see is that you have information in an osgi manifest
> that
> can't be found in a maven pom nor an ivy file: exports. That's why I think
> with Ivy it would be better to use directly OSGi manifest if we can get
> enough metadata from it.
>
> The goal being not to have to duplicate the dependency information.
>

Right, I think there is a subtle difference in what we're talking about

* OSGi - > Ivy adapter for Ivy.

I think the only thing that makes what we are talking about different is
that I think you are saying you want Ivy to be able to understand OSGi so
you have one more place for information. This helps someone who uses Ivy
leverage a component that is OSGi ready; but it doesn't  necessarily help
someone using OSGi-Spring.

USE-CASE:

I have a project with dependencies that are have no Ivy descriptors and have
no Maven descriptors. For some reason they do have OSGi descriptors and I'd
like to leverage that.

* Ivy->OSGi adapter for OSGi-Spring.

What I'm saying is that OSGi-Spring is coming at the problem the opposite
end. They want OSGI-Spring to be able to understand Maven, or in our case
Ivy. This helps someone using OSGi-Spring leverage a component from Maven or
Ivy even if that component doesn't contain OSGi descriptors, which there are
various reasons for. It doesn't let someone using Ivy suddenly have more
artifacts at thier disposale, but it does make it so that if you are using
OSGi-Spring you can use anything thats Ivy ready.

USE-CASE:

I wrote OSGi component. My OSGi component has a ton of transitive
dependencies. These all better be OSGi ready or I will have problems and I'm
going to have to go off and transitively  make all my dependencies OSGi
ready. This is not good - but many components already have Ivy or Maven
descriptors, wouldn't it be great if OSGi could just speak to pom.xml or
ivy.xml and figure things out.

This enables people to leverage Ivy who may not even be using it themselves.
I might do everything by hand with ant, but when I slam everything into my
OSGi-Spring container, the container is smart enough to figure out my
dependencies for me using Ivy information.

-- 

- Eric

Re: Google Summer of Code

[Xavier Hanin <xa...@gmail.com>]

On 3/14/07, Eric Crahen <er...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> One thing that the Spring-OSGi guys are working on is a way to leverage
> the
> dependency information within Maven pom's to extrapolate OSGi
> dependencies.


I haven't checked their work in detail for the moment, so I may be wrong,
but the problem I see is that you have information in an osgi manifest that
can't be found in a maven pom nor an ivy file: exports. That's why I think
with Ivy it would be better to use directly OSGi manifest if we can get
enough metadata from it.

The goal being not to have to duplicate the dependency information.


Yes, that's the point, and that's where I think Ivy can shine thanks to
pluggable module descriptor parsers.

Contributing a similar functionality to that project that is able to
> leverage the dependency information in Ivy might be a really good thing;
> it
> would give Ivy greater exposure to people.


+1

Not having this support for Ivy
> would give some people greater reason to select something like Maven since
> it would mean that if you accept Maven you get Spring-OSGi information for
> free. It also may mean that even if you aren't using Maven yourself, and
> just were to use Spring-OSGi - then the spring components are still able
> to
> leverage the dependency information from Maven repositories. Selecting
> Maven
> for a project would give you greater exposure to a larger base of
> consumers.


This is true, that's why I would like to get that supported by Ivy. The
problem is to find either time to implement, or someone to implement it.
That's why I made the propoosition to suggest that as a GSoC idea. Even if
this leads to this summer, I don't know if we seriously have a chance to get
such a feature before...

http://www.springframework.org/osgi
>
> As an aside, aren't there serious issues with the current Maven pom
> parsers?
> I haven't gotten it to work correctly once - at least in 1.4, I haven't
> tried the CVS version.


Yes, there were serious issues in 1.4, a little less in 1.4.1, and now the
svn version works pretty well. Indeed I've just started a new project where
I actually use this compatibility extensively for the first time, and find
and fix bugs in more real world scenarios. I think we'll get something
really serious in 1.5.

- Xavier

On 3/14/07, Xavier Hanin <xa...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > Forwarded message below.
> >
> > Is it something that could be interesting for us? Who can propose an
> idea
> > (I
> > mean, do you need to be an ASF member?).
> >
> > I'm wondering if submitting an idea around Ivy/OSGi integration could be
> > interesting. OSGi gains more and more momentum, and it seems that using
> a
> > dependency manager like Ivy on an OSGi based project could be
> interesting,
> > especially if Ivy had an OSGi manifest parser (as the pom parser).
> >
> > WDYT?
> >
> > - Xavier
> >
> > ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> > From: Jukka Zitting <ju...@gmail.com>
> > Date: Mar 14, 2007 3:06 PM
> > Subject: Fwd: Google Summer of Code
> > To: general@incubator.apache.org
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> > Woden and Tuscany have already proposed GSoC projects. Other
> > incubating projects might also be interested.
> >
> > Notice the tight timeframe, if your project is interested then you
> > need to move quickly.
> >
> > BR,
> >
> > Jukka Zitting
> >
> > ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> > From: Ross Gardler <rg...@apache.org>
> > Date: Mar 14, 2007 3:53 PM
> > Subject: Google Summer of Code
> > To: code-awards@apadche.org, members@apache.org
> >
> >
> > Google are due to announce the accepted organisations in the Google
> > Summer of Code today. Unfortunately, I've been really busy with other
> > things recently and have not managed to organise the ASF application as
> > well as I might. However, I did manage to notify the code-awards@a.o
> > list of the process and I did get an application in on time. So, now to
> > the next stage.
> >
> > This message is mailed to members@ as well as code-awards@. Please feel
> > free to distribute to your projects, I chose not to send to community@
> > or committers@ because I'm aware different projects like to manage GSoC
> > applications in different ways. It's up to the members to take this
> > forward in individual projects.
> >
> > Student applications will open today and will close on March 24th.
> >
> > If your projects want to accept applications from GSoC students then you
> > need to ensure you have details listed on
> > http://wiki.apache.org/general/SummerOfCode2007
> >
> > If you want more info on what being a mentor means then a good place to
> > start is
> > http://code.google.com/p/google-summer-of-code/wiki/AdviceforMentors
> >
> > Interested parties should also subscribe to code-awards@a.o where all
> > internal communication about GSoC occurs (like how we select which
> > projects to accept).
> >
> > Ross
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
> >
>
>
>
> --
>
> - Eric
>

Re: Google Summer of Code

[Eric Crahen <er...@gmail.com>]

One thing that the Spring-OSGi guys are working on is a way to leverage the
dependency information within Maven pom's to extrapolate OSGi dependencies.
The goal being not to have to duplicate the dependency information.
Contributing a similar functionality to that project that is able to
leverage the dependency information in Ivy might be a really good thing; it
would give Ivy greater exposure to people. Not having this support for Ivy
would give some people greater reason to select something like Maven since
it would mean that if you accept Maven you get Spring-OSGi information for
free. It also may mean that even if you aren't using Maven yourself, and
just were to use Spring-OSGi - then the spring components are still able to
leverage the dependency information from Maven repositories. Selecting Maven
for a project would give you greater exposure to a larger base of consumers.

http://www.springframework.org/osgi

As an aside, aren't there serious issues with the current Maven pom parsers?
I haven't gotten it to work correctly once - at least in 1.4, I haven't
tried the CVS version.

On 3/14/07, Xavier Hanin <xa...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Forwarded message below.
>
> Is it something that could be interesting for us? Who can propose an idea
> (I
> mean, do you need to be an ASF member?).
>
> I'm wondering if submitting an idea around Ivy/OSGi integration could be
> interesting. OSGi gains more and more momentum, and it seems that using a
> dependency manager like Ivy on an OSGi based project could be interesting,
> especially if Ivy had an OSGi manifest parser (as the pom parser).
>
> WDYT?
>
> - Xavier
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Jukka Zitting <ju...@gmail.com>
> Date: Mar 14, 2007 3:06 PM
> Subject: Fwd: Google Summer of Code
> To: general@incubator.apache.org
>
> Hi,
>
> Woden and Tuscany have already proposed GSoC projects. Other
> incubating projects might also be interested.
>
> Notice the tight timeframe, if your project is interested then you
> need to move quickly.
>
> BR,
>
> Jukka Zitting
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Ross Gardler <rg...@apache.org>
> Date: Mar 14, 2007 3:53 PM
> Subject: Google Summer of Code
> To: code-awards@apadche.org, members@apache.org
>
>
> Google are due to announce the accepted organisations in the Google
> Summer of Code today. Unfortunately, I've been really busy with other
> things recently and have not managed to organise the ASF application as
> well as I might. However, I did manage to notify the code-awards@a.o
> list of the process and I did get an application in on time. So, now to
> the next stage.
>
> This message is mailed to members@ as well as code-awards@. Please feel
> free to distribute to your projects, I chose not to send to community@
> or committers@ because I'm aware different projects like to manage GSoC
> applications in different ways. It's up to the members to take this
> forward in individual projects.
>
> Student applications will open today and will close on March 24th.
>
> If your projects want to accept applications from GSoC students then you
> need to ensure you have details listed on
> http://wiki.apache.org/general/SummerOfCode2007
>
> If you want more info on what being a mentor means then a good place to
> start is
> http://code.google.com/p/google-summer-of-code/wiki/AdviceforMentors
>
> Interested parties should also subscribe to code-awards@a.o where all
> internal communication about GSoC occurs (like how we select which
> projects to accept).
>
> Ross
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>



-- 

- Eric