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Posted to dev@cocoon.apache.org by Arje Cahn <Ar...@hippo.nl> on 2003/12/04 11:36:55 UTC
RE: Apache-korea.org (Cocoon tools)
Just so you PMC guys know what happened.
I got a response from the Korean guy that runs cocoon.apache-korea.org. This is what he said:
Dear Arje Cahn
I'm Keyseon, Min.
I am a korean undergraduate studing Cocoon and I am managing
the site of cocoon.apache-korea.org.
.... >snip< ...
I thought Cocoon Sitemap Tracer don't be brought to completion.
(which is completely right :-) )
.... >snip< ...
The cocoon.apache-korea.org is translation site into Korean. I
hope to help korean developer or user use cocoon easily. The
cocoon.apache-korea.org is independent of apache.org up to now.
.... >snip< ...
I would like to contribute to cocoon.apache.org and implement
program continuously for the cocooner.
Sounds ok. I've suggested him that it would be good to donate the tool to the cocoon.apache.org group.
On the other hand....
"I hope to help korean developer or user use cocoon easily"
That's an alarm bell ringing.
Which leads me to the following question: what about a "tools" department for Cocoon? I know there has been some talk of it, but what happened to it? Looks like Keyseon actually created a seperate 'tools' department, apart from the Apache group, that should have been inside the Cocoon site anyway.
Apart from that, what is the status of apache-korea.org?
Regards,
Arjé Cahn
Hippo Webworks
Grasweg 35
1031 HW Amsterdam
The Netherlands
Tel +31 (0)20 6345173
Fax +31 (0)20 6345179
-------------------------------------------------------------
arje@hippo.nl / www.hippo.nl
--------------------------------------------------------------
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Arje Cahn
> Posted At: Friday, November 28, 2003 7:53 PM
> Posted To: Cocoon Dev List
> Conversation: Apache-korea.org
> Subject: Apache-korea.org
>
>
> I had a great laugh when I saw a screenshot of my own sitemap
> tracer application, copied in a Korean version, rebuilt and
> downloadable on the cocoon.apache-korea.org website
> (http://cocoon.apache-korea.org/application/c-tracer.html)..
> I have no problems with them taking my idea, but since they
> are posting it under the Apache flag, I was wondering wheter
> they will commit it back to the *real* apache CVS as well?
>
> (In the end, I think they would do better using SunBow
> instead of my crappy tryout :) )
>
> (see
> http://blogs.hippowebworks.com/hippo/archives/000051.html for
> my rant on this)
>
> Regards,
>
> Arjé
>
> Hippo Webworks
> Grasweg 35
> 1031 HW Amsterdam
> The Netherlands
> Tel +31 (0)20 6345173
> Fax +31 (0)20 6345179
> -------------------------------------------------------------
> arje@hippo.nl / www.hippo.nl
> --------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
>
>
Re: Apache-korea.org (Cocoon tools)
Posted by Jorg Heymans <jh...@domek.be>.
I think the tools department is a good idea.
It could be used as some sort of "incubator" where tools can mature
before developers decide whether it's worth including it in the main
distribution or not.
People could put their own custom
generators/serializers/transformers/stylesheets/forms/flowscripts there,
thus increasing the sharing of available knowledge. I'm sure some great
tools will appear because of this.
Agreed the wiki has all of this as well, but wiki.cocoondev.org doesn't
sound as crisp and clear as eg tools.cocoondev.org.
The only possible problem i see is the possible scattering of knowledge
accross yet another website or wiki.
but overall (in the style of the cocoon committers)
+1
Jorg
Arje Cahn wrote:
> Just so you PMC guys know what happened.
> I got a response from the Korean guy that runs cocoon.apache-korea.org. This is what he said:
>
> Dear Arje Cahn
> I'm Keyseon, Min.
> I am a korean undergraduate studing Cocoon and I am managing
> the site of cocoon.apache-korea.org.
> .... >snip< ...
> I thought Cocoon Sitemap Tracer don't be brought to completion.
>
> (which is completely right :-) )
>
> .... >snip< ...
> The cocoon.apache-korea.org is translation site into Korean. I
> hope to help korean developer or user use cocoon easily. The
> cocoon.apache-korea.org is independent of apache.org up to now.
> .... >snip< ...
> I would like to contribute to cocoon.apache.org and implement
> program continuously for the cocooner.
>
> Sounds ok. I've suggested him that it would be good to donate the tool to the cocoon.apache.org group.
>
> On the other hand....
> "I hope to help korean developer or user use cocoon easily"
> That's an alarm bell ringing.
>
> Which leads me to the following question: what about a "tools" department for Cocoon? I know there has been some talk of it, but what happened to it? Looks like Keyseon actually created a seperate 'tools' department, apart from the Apache group, that should have been inside the Cocoon site anyway.
>
> Apart from that, what is the status of apache-korea.org?
>
> Regards,
>
> Arjé Cahn
>
> Hippo Webworks
> Grasweg 35
> 1031 HW Amsterdam
> The Netherlands
> Tel +31 (0)20 6345173
> Fax +31 (0)20 6345179
> -------------------------------------------------------------
> arje@hippo.nl / www.hippo.nl
> --------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: Arje Cahn
>>Posted At: Friday, November 28, 2003 7:53 PM
>>Posted To: Cocoon Dev List
>>Conversation: Apache-korea.org
>>Subject: Apache-korea.org
>>
>>
>>I had a great laugh when I saw a screenshot of my own sitemap
>>tracer application, copied in a Korean version, rebuilt and
>>downloadable on the cocoon.apache-korea.org website
>>(http://cocoon.apache-korea.org/application/c-tracer.html)..
>>I have no problems with them taking my idea, but since they
>>are posting it under the Apache flag, I was wondering wheter
>>they will commit it back to the *real* apache CVS as well?
>>
>>(In the end, I think they would do better using SunBow
>>instead of my crappy tryout :) )
>>
>>(see
>>http://blogs.hippowebworks.com/hippo/archives/000051.html for
>>my rant on this)
>>
>>Regards,
>>
>>Arjé
>>
>>Hippo Webworks
>>Grasweg 35
>>1031 HW Amsterdam
>>The Netherlands
>>Tel +31 (0)20 6345173
>>Fax +31 (0)20 6345179
>>-------------------------------------------------------------
>>arje@hippo.nl / www.hippo.nl
>>--------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
Re: Apache-korea.org (Cocoon tools)
Posted by Steven Noels <st...@outerthought.org>.
On Dec 4, 2003, at 11:36 AM, Arje Cahn wrote:
>> I had a great laugh when I saw a screenshot of my own sitemap
>> tracer application, copied in a Korean version, rebuilt and
>> downloadable on the cocoon.apache-korea.org website
>> (http://cocoon.apache-korea.org/application/c-tracer.html)..
>> I have no problems with them taking my idea, but since they
>> are posting it under the Apache flag, I was wondering wheter
>> they will commit it back to the *real* apache CVS as well?
>>
IIRC, your own sitemap tracer trial never made it into Cocoon CVS
neither? So him copying some aspects of it is hardly an ASF concern
(nor is your point really about the copying, of course).
About the 'abuse' of the Apache/Cocoon name/logo on that Korean
website.... it's a complicated thing IMHO. Imitation is a sincere form
of flattery, but as long as we don't have Asian-versed community
members, we will not be able to judge the quality of his work anyhow. I
sometimes have the feeling they are using a "different internet"
somehow, and that it is very hard to see both worlds meet. The fact
people use Anakia and Forrest, and those tools come default with Apache
skins, doesn't help with this neither - we make it trivially easy to
create a site which has an ASF/Cocoon look&feel. I don't think we
should suspect anything malicious behind the use of the default skin.
About the tools thing: +1, but not as some cocoon
scratchpad/subproject/cvs module thing which is is sneakily slipped
under the door: if it comes to Apache and had been coded outside, and
it has little community, incubation is the only entrance IMHO. If the
incubator sucks, we should go and and talk with them about changing
their rules. About cocoondev.org: I'm all ears, if code and community
exist somehow.
Cheers,
</Steven>
--
Steven Noels http://outerthought.org/
Outerthought - Open Source Java & XML An Orixo Member
Read my weblog at http://blogs.cocoondev.org/stevenn/
stevenn at outerthought.org stevenn at apache.org