A new Garden

[Ryan Ramage <ry...@gmail.com>]

Hey relaxers, you may remember the original garden that jchris did.
Well, I have taken that idea and run with it.

Checkout http://garden20.com

The idea is really to provide an open platform for both developers and
end users, all firmly rooted in couchdb.

For users, it could not be simpler to install an app anywhere. With a
few steps a user could be running your app in the cloud with no
installation headaches.
They will be able to choose downloads for most platforms, as well as
the option of a private couch provided by IrisCouch. It is all
hopefully very frictionless.

For developers it solves many distribution problems. Its very easy to
make new apps using the existing couch tool-chains. You can even
retrofit existing couchapps
quickly an put them in the market. Also, the garden provides a very
good way to push and manage updates. Another wall hit by developers is
the private data scenario.
You could even have them install the app, work with private data
locally (or in a private cloud) and setup a sync back to a central
place.

I hope the community will pitch in and create or retrofit some amazing
apps. Here are some ideas:

- Apps that make it easy to quickly get a public site going. Forum
apps, issue trackers, etc
- Collaboration apps that will work together.
- Personal apps that can sync to a private hosted space, and between a
users devices.

Thanks, and please provide me with any feedback, ideas, bugs or whatever!

Ryan

Re: A new Garden

[Ryan Ramage <ry...@gmail.com>]

On Sat, Sep 15, 2012 at 6:43 PM, R.J. Steinert <rj...@rjsteinert.com> wrote:
> "simply having Garden to make the basic CouchApp stuff more approachable to
> more people is a great step forward"
> Agreed!  I love the concept.
>

Great...good to see enthusiasm. Also to be clear to new couchdb users:
couchapps and the garden concept are not the only way you have to
write apps for couchdb. I know we have seen confusion when people
approach couchdb that they have to use couchapps. But hopefully the
garden concept reinvigorates the couch community.


> Signup is not currently working for me, the signup button seems inactive.
> No js errors, nothing happens when it is clicked.
>

Hmm, checked all the systems, and it looks ok. Maybe there is a
os/browser issue I have not seen...can you create an issue here, maybe
with some browser details and a link to a screen shot?

https://github.com/garden20/garden/issues


Thanks:

Ryan



> --
> RJ Steinert
> http://rjsteinert.com
>
>
>
> On Fri, Sep 14, 2012 at 6:54 PM, Ryan Ramage <ry...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Btw, if anyone wants to get (back) into couchapps, I have a super easy
>> template to fork and tryout:
>>
>> https://github.com/garden20/baseline-garden-app
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Sep 14, 2012 at 4:50 PM, Ryan Ramage <ry...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> > On Thu, Sep 13, 2012 at 12:26 AM, Michiel de Jong <mi...@unhosted.org>
>> wrote:
>> >> many thanks for doing this!
>> >
>> > Thanks for the great feedback and really walking through it. I had
>> > most of it done for a while, just needed to really work hard to polish
>> > it up a bit more.
>> >
>> >>
>> >> I really like how install lets you choose "garden market" but also "or
>> >> paste a URL", easily usable.
>> >>
>> >> One question about pasting a URL though: it wasn't clear to me how i
>> >> can for instance install http://www.theinfinitemaze.com/ - should i
>> >> obtain some sort of app manifest URL from the independent app
>> >> publisher to paste in there?
>> >>
>> >
>> > Currently the only url that work in that field is a link to an app in
>> > _any_ garden market. Something that looks like:
>> >
>> > http://garden20.com/market/details/bookmarks
>> >
>> > We just wanted to show a way that you are not forced to use one
>> > market. Some work should be done to make that more clear. That being
>> > said
>> > we could probably sniff the url provided a little more, and if it is a
>> > regular couchapp provided a way to replicate it over to your garden. I
>> > will have to think about that.
>> >
>> >
>> >> I even think the "do you trust this app?" page can be toned down, when
>> >> i saw it i assumed that all apps would be sharing one data space.
>> >> Given that this is not the case, all an app could do is DoS you,
>> >> right? I mean, i think you could skip this "are you sure?" screen
>> >> even.
>> >
>> > It needs to be there in some form. I can send you a link like this:
>> > http://bit.ly/Qglbda To try and fool you. Just some safety measures.
>> >
>> >>
>> >> I'll think about if there is a way to port our existing remoteStorage
>> >> apps to CouchApp. They all use remoteStorage.js, so if we port that,
>> >> we would port all future apps on our platform automatically to your
>> >> platform. The main difference is the separation between data of
>> >> different apps, i think.
>> >
>> > I can see remote storage as a nice fit if people build hosted gardens
>> > from the smaller apps, and remoteStorage lets them save data to/from
>> > them. Also pouchdb is a great fit for this.
>> >
>> >>
>> >> ps, everybody else can stop trying to squat 'unwalled.garden20.com' as
>> >> a username, i already got it. :)
>> >>
>> >
>> > it truly is trying to be an unwalled garden. Good name :)
>>

Re: A new Garden

["R.J. Steinert" <rj...@rjsteinert.com>]

"simply having Garden to make the basic CouchApp stuff more approachable to
more people is a great step forward"
Agreed!  I love the concept.

Signup is not currently working for me, the signup button seems inactive.
No js errors, nothing happens when it is clicked.

--
RJ Steinert
http://rjsteinert.com



On Fri, Sep 14, 2012 at 6:54 PM, Ryan Ramage <ry...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Btw, if anyone wants to get (back) into couchapps, I have a super easy
> template to fork and tryout:
>
> https://github.com/garden20/baseline-garden-app
>
>
>
>
> On Fri, Sep 14, 2012 at 4:50 PM, Ryan Ramage <ry...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > On Thu, Sep 13, 2012 at 12:26 AM, Michiel de Jong <mi...@unhosted.org>
> wrote:
> >> many thanks for doing this!
> >
> > Thanks for the great feedback and really walking through it. I had
> > most of it done for a while, just needed to really work hard to polish
> > it up a bit more.
> >
> >>
> >> I really like how install lets you choose "garden market" but also "or
> >> paste a URL", easily usable.
> >>
> >> One question about pasting a URL though: it wasn't clear to me how i
> >> can for instance install http://www.theinfinitemaze.com/ - should i
> >> obtain some sort of app manifest URL from the independent app
> >> publisher to paste in there?
> >>
> >
> > Currently the only url that work in that field is a link to an app in
> > _any_ garden market. Something that looks like:
> >
> > http://garden20.com/market/details/bookmarks
> >
> > We just wanted to show a way that you are not forced to use one
> > market. Some work should be done to make that more clear. That being
> > said
> > we could probably sniff the url provided a little more, and if it is a
> > regular couchapp provided a way to replicate it over to your garden. I
> > will have to think about that.
> >
> >
> >> I even think the "do you trust this app?" page can be toned down, when
> >> i saw it i assumed that all apps would be sharing one data space.
> >> Given that this is not the case, all an app could do is DoS you,
> >> right? I mean, i think you could skip this "are you sure?" screen
> >> even.
> >
> > It needs to be there in some form. I can send you a link like this:
> > http://bit.ly/Qglbda To try and fool you. Just some safety measures.
> >
> >>
> >> I'll think about if there is a way to port our existing remoteStorage
> >> apps to CouchApp. They all use remoteStorage.js, so if we port that,
> >> we would port all future apps on our platform automatically to your
> >> platform. The main difference is the separation between data of
> >> different apps, i think.
> >
> > I can see remote storage as a nice fit if people build hosted gardens
> > from the smaller apps, and remoteStorage lets them save data to/from
> > them. Also pouchdb is a great fit for this.
> >
> >>
> >> ps, everybody else can stop trying to squat 'unwalled.garden20.com' as
> >> a username, i already got it. :)
> >>
> >
> > it truly is trying to be an unwalled garden. Good name :)
>

Re: A new Garden

[Ryan Ramage <ry...@gmail.com>]

Btw, if anyone wants to get (back) into couchapps, I have a super easy
template to fork and tryout:

https://github.com/garden20/baseline-garden-app




On Fri, Sep 14, 2012 at 4:50 PM, Ryan Ramage <ry...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Thu, Sep 13, 2012 at 12:26 AM, Michiel de Jong <mi...@unhosted.org> wrote:
>> many thanks for doing this!
>
> Thanks for the great feedback and really walking through it. I had
> most of it done for a while, just needed to really work hard to polish
> it up a bit more.
>
>>
>> I really like how install lets you choose "garden market" but also "or
>> paste a URL", easily usable.
>>
>> One question about pasting a URL though: it wasn't clear to me how i
>> can for instance install http://www.theinfinitemaze.com/ - should i
>> obtain some sort of app manifest URL from the independent app
>> publisher to paste in there?
>>
>
> Currently the only url that work in that field is a link to an app in
> _any_ garden market. Something that looks like:
>
> http://garden20.com/market/details/bookmarks
>
> We just wanted to show a way that you are not forced to use one
> market. Some work should be done to make that more clear. That being
> said
> we could probably sniff the url provided a little more, and if it is a
> regular couchapp provided a way to replicate it over to your garden. I
> will have to think about that.
>
>
>> I even think the "do you trust this app?" page can be toned down, when
>> i saw it i assumed that all apps would be sharing one data space.
>> Given that this is not the case, all an app could do is DoS you,
>> right? I mean, i think you could skip this "are you sure?" screen
>> even.
>
> It needs to be there in some form. I can send you a link like this:
> http://bit.ly/Qglbda To try and fool you. Just some safety measures.
>
>>
>> I'll think about if there is a way to port our existing remoteStorage
>> apps to CouchApp. They all use remoteStorage.js, so if we port that,
>> we would port all future apps on our platform automatically to your
>> platform. The main difference is the separation between data of
>> different apps, i think.
>
> I can see remote storage as a nice fit if people build hosted gardens
> from the smaller apps, and remoteStorage lets them save data to/from
> them. Also pouchdb is a great fit for this.
>
>>
>> ps, everybody else can stop trying to squat 'unwalled.garden20.com' as
>> a username, i already got it. :)
>>
>
> it truly is trying to be an unwalled garden. Good name :)

Re: A new Garden

[Ryan Ramage <ry...@gmail.com>]

On Thu, Sep 13, 2012 at 12:26 AM, Michiel de Jong <mi...@unhosted.org> wrote:
> many thanks for doing this!

Thanks for the great feedback and really walking through it. I had
most of it done for a while, just needed to really work hard to polish
it up a bit more.

>
> I really like how install lets you choose "garden market" but also "or
> paste a URL", easily usable.
>
> One question about pasting a URL though: it wasn't clear to me how i
> can for instance install http://www.theinfinitemaze.com/ - should i
> obtain some sort of app manifest URL from the independent app
> publisher to paste in there?
>

Currently the only url that work in that field is a link to an app in
_any_ garden market. Something that looks like:

http://garden20.com/market/details/bookmarks

We just wanted to show a way that you are not forced to use one
market. Some work should be done to make that more clear. That being
said
we could probably sniff the url provided a little more, and if it is a
regular couchapp provided a way to replicate it over to your garden. I
will have to think about that.


> I even think the "do you trust this app?" page can be toned down, when
> i saw it i assumed that all apps would be sharing one data space.
> Given that this is not the case, all an app could do is DoS you,
> right? I mean, i think you could skip this "are you sure?" screen
> even.

It needs to be there in some form. I can send you a link like this:
http://bit.ly/Qglbda To try and fool you. Just some safety measures.

>
> I'll think about if there is a way to port our existing remoteStorage
> apps to CouchApp. They all use remoteStorage.js, so if we port that,
> we would port all future apps on our platform automatically to your
> platform. The main difference is the separation between data of
> different apps, i think.

I can see remote storage as a nice fit if people build hosted gardens
from the smaller apps, and remoteStorage lets them save data to/from
them. Also pouchdb is a great fit for this.

>
> ps, everybody else can stop trying to squat 'unwalled.garden20.com' as
> a username, i already got it. :)
>

it truly is trying to be an unwalled garden. Good name :)

Re: A new Garden

[Michiel de Jong <mi...@unhosted.org>]

many thanks for doing this!

I really like how install lets you choose "garden market" but also "or
paste a URL", easily usable.

One question about pasting a URL though: it wasn't clear to me how i
can for instance install http://www.theinfinitemaze.com/ - should i
obtain some sort of app manifest URL from the independent app
publisher to paste in there?

Good choice i think in separating each app into its own db. That keeps
the security simple. If apps want to interact, they can just use
webintents or inter-app OAuth.

I even think the "do you trust this app?" page can be toned down, when
i saw it i assumed that all apps would be sharing one data space.
Given that this is not the case, all an app could do is DoS you,
right? I mean, i think you could skip this "are you sure?" screen
even.

I'll think about if there is a way to port our existing remoteStorage
apps to CouchApp. They all use remoteStorage.js, so if we port that,
we would port all future apps on our platform automatically to your
platform. The main difference is the separation between data of
different apps, i think.

ps, everybody else can stop trying to squat 'unwalled.garden20.com' as
a username, i already got it. :)

Again, kudos for doing this!

ciao,
Michiel

On Wed, Sep 12, 2012 at 11:12 PM, Ryan Ramage <ry...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hey relaxers, you may remember the original garden that jchris did.
> Well, I have taken that idea and run with it.
>
> Checkout http://garden20.com
>
> The idea is really to provide an open platform for both developers and
> end users, all firmly rooted in couchdb.
>
> For users, it could not be simpler to install an app anywhere. With a
> few steps a user could be running your app in the cloud with no
> installation headaches.
> They will be able to choose downloads for most platforms, as well as
> the option of a private couch provided by IrisCouch. It is all
> hopefully very frictionless.
>
> For developers it solves many distribution problems. Its very easy to
> make new apps using the existing couch tool-chains. You can even
> retrofit existing couchapps
> quickly an put them in the market. Also, the garden provides a very
> good way to push and manage updates. Another wall hit by developers is
> the private data scenario.
> You could even have them install the app, work with private data
> locally (or in a private cloud) and setup a sync back to a central
> place.
>
> I hope the community will pitch in and create or retrofit some amazing
> apps. Here are some ideas:
>
> - Apps that make it easy to quickly get a public site going. Forum
> apps, issue trackers, etc
> - Collaboration apps that will work together.
> - Personal apps that can sync to a private hosted space, and between a
> users devices.
>
> Thanks, and please provide me with any feedback, ideas, bugs or whatever!
>
> Ryan

Re: A new Garden

[Ryan Ramage <ry...@gmail.com>]

> Neat idea. I've been working (off and on) on a number of Couchapps that might be a great fit. They're simple "Python couchapp" bundles rather than Kanso, especially since many of them were started a while ago:

There is a traditional-couchapp package for kanso that should work for
your apps.


> All of these are designed to run in a shared database setting (e.g. I could theoretically store all my photos and geodata and text notes in a single database) and so might be a great fit for Garden20 [why twenty?] assuming your app approval process is sympathetic to beta (and in some cases, pre-alpha) software ;-)

With this release each app installs into its own db in couch. It was
too much cognitive overhead for users to decide where to install it. I
think in the future apps can have runtime app dependencies specified,
and say if they want to be installed into an existing db.

>
> Garden20 [why twenty?]

Just wanted a short, easy to remember url. Also the site itself is a
garden, so its just one of many. One could make a garden21 and host
completely different apps there. Also it's a play on 2.0 but that's a
bit lame so pretend I did not say that.


> Glad you're keeping the CouchApp dream alive. I've got a dream to someday figure out a sort of couchOS server platform where, say, gently sandboxed node.js apps can track a whole family/small office's data in CouchDB, with a bit of OAuth, BrowserID and Web Intents thrown in for good measure. Apps like ShutterStem and some media center stuff lower down on my list could benefit from being able to run OS-level processes outside of _view/_show/_list — but I think simply having Garden to make the basic CouchApp stuff more approachable to more people is a great step forward.
>

Yes, I also want to have a little more horsepower on the installed
gardens. I think the next release would focus on this. There are lots
of options, but wanted to discuss with the community to get the best
way forward.

Re: A new Garden

[Nathan Vander Wilt <na...@calftrail.com>]

Neat idea. I've been working (off and on) on a number of Couchapps that might be a great fit. They're simple "Python couchapp" bundles rather than Kanso, especially since many of them were started a while ago:

- photo library: https://github.com/natevw/ShutterStem
- location logging: https://github.com/natevw/LocLog (not much web interface besides a summary viewer, and used by ShutterStem's geotagging)
- simple Markdown notebook: https://github.com/natevw/twas
- simple "vectors-on-map" notebook: https://github.com/natevw/Metakaolin

All of these are designed to run in a shared database setting (e.g. I could theoretically store all my photos and geodata and text notes in a single database) and so might be a great fit for Garden20 [why twenty?] assuming your app approval process is sympathetic to beta (and in some cases, pre-alpha) software ;-)


Glad you're keeping the CouchApp dream alive. I've got a dream to someday figure out a sort of couchOS server platform where, say, gently sandboxed node.js apps can track a whole family/small office's data in CouchDB, with a bit of OAuth, BrowserID and Web Intents thrown in for good measure. Apps like ShutterStem and some media center stuff lower down on my list could benefit from being able to run OS-level processes outside of _view/_show/_list — but I think simply having Garden to make the basic CouchApp stuff more approachable to more people is a great step forward.

Would be happy to keep chatting more about CouchApp architectures (and markets!) on or off-list as might be appropriate.

thanks,
-natevw



On Sep 12, 2012, at 2:12 PM, Ryan Ramage wrote:

> Hey relaxers, you may remember the original garden that jchris did.
> Well, I have taken that idea and run with it.
> 
> Checkout http://garden20.com
> 
> The idea is really to provide an open platform for both developers and
> end users, all firmly rooted in couchdb.
> 
> For users, it could not be simpler to install an app anywhere. With a
> few steps a user could be running your app in the cloud with no
> installation headaches.
> They will be able to choose downloads for most platforms, as well as
> the option of a private couch provided by IrisCouch. It is all
> hopefully very frictionless.
> 
> For developers it solves many distribution problems. Its very easy to
> make new apps using the existing couch tool-chains. You can even
> retrofit existing couchapps
> quickly an put them in the market. Also, the garden provides a very
> good way to push and manage updates. Another wall hit by developers is
> the private data scenario.
> You could even have them install the app, work with private data
> locally (or in a private cloud) and setup a sync back to a central
> place.
> 
> I hope the community will pitch in and create or retrofit some amazing
> apps. Here are some ideas:
> 
> - Apps that make it easy to quickly get a public site going. Forum
> apps, issue trackers, etc
> - Collaboration apps that will work together.
> - Personal apps that can sync to a private hosted space, and between a
> users devices.
> 
> Thanks, and please provide me with any feedback, ideas, bugs or whatever!
> 
> Ryan