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Posted to dev@zipkin.apache.org by Adrian Cole <ad...@apache.org> on 2019/06/14 02:24:56 UTC
[VOTE] Withdraw from the Apache Incubator
The PPMC held a vote on our private list to withdraw from the Apache
Incubator. We did this for reason of discretion, similar to how new
PPMC members are voted in, and for lack of any formal process to
conduct such a vote. John D. Ament asked us to vote again "to keep our
own processes simple", so this vote is in accordance with that
request.
8 votes to leave carry over from the private list, including 7 of our
12 PPMC members [1]. There were no 0 or -1 votes cast.
IPMC +1 Sheng Wu
PPMC +7 Adrian Cole, Bas van Beek, José Carlos Chávez, Kristof
Adriaenssens, Jorge Esteban Quilcate Otoya, Brian Devins-Suresh, Lance
Linder
Here's the private thread:
https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/b47dc4cdce50ca5d4229d73d2ac745904e3a4b70bebfabe1cbf7c55a@%3Cprivate.zipkin.apache.org%3E
Below is the description of the vote, which we'll extend here for 72
hours. Folks who have formerly voted can feel free to vote again.
----
It has been the experience from more than one of us that the Apache
Incubator is more stressful and requires more effort than initially
anticipated or is necessary. This vote recommends we leave the
incubator back to the OpenZipkin org and carry on as we did.
Here is some background. I will not cite here. If you are a committer
you can also express your point of view with or without citing. Your
opinions matter and I hope you all vote.
Process and policy ambiguity has been ever present and cost us a lot
of time and energy. The incubator spends more energy on failing us
than helping us. Tooling gaps, whether related to process management,
source verification or multiple repositories have impacted us as well.
We have lost considerable velocity since attempting to join. Even if
we graduate, there is no guarantee strictness felt so far won't carry
over.
The burdens don't stop here, there is a lot of fear about our greater
community, OpenZipkin and how to fireproof branding across what is
Apache and what is not. This is not only a cultural miss for us, but
yet more overhead and also tension. We still have to maintain the old
namespace, and we also get tension from the incubator that the old
namespace exists. Probably many projects can control their whole
ecosystem but we cannot and as far as I know do not desire to either.
We are all the same class.
Some large projects can afford incubator strictness and carry on
despite these hurdles and lack of tools. Small or mono repo projects
have far less work anyway. Those with larger projects usually have
fulltime staff to address the gaps, write nice websites navigating
process, make tools etc. It is costly and we are frankly by definition
not rich.
Moreover, OpenZipkin is culturally against building things that
require effort to get working. Our very first act as a part of a
community was to remove the burden of forcing users to build from
source. There is definitely conflict with us and a culture preoccupied
with source ceremony and without interest to the impacts on volunteers
or the quality if the experience. This mismatch has led to many
problems that distract us from our purpose as a project in ways
including time displacement and low morale. This is despite multiple
escalations from our mentors.
For reasons of resources, poor experience and cultural
incompatibility, I recommend we leave the incubator and re-unify as
OpenZipkin again.
If you vote -1, it is to remain. Please mention concrete efforts you
will take personally to address the problems, and which
responsibilities you will take on, if you vote -1.
Voting ends 3 days from today, i.e. midnight UTC on 2019-06-17
http://www.timeanddate.com/counters/customcounter.html?year=2019&month=
06&day=17
[1] https://whimsy.apache.org/roster/ppmc/zipkin
---------------------------------------------------------------------
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For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@zipkin.apache.org
Re: [VOTE] Withdraw from the Apache Incubator
Posted by José Carlos Chávez <jc...@gmail.com>.
+1
fre. 14. jun. 2019, 07:05 skrev Jorge Esteban Quilcate Otoya <
quilcate.jorge@gmail.com>:
> +1
>
> On Fri, 14 Jun 2019, 07:29 Jorg Heymans, <jo...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > +1 (non-binding)
> >
> > Op vr 14 jun. 2019 05:49 schreef Sheng Wu <wu...@gmail.com>:
> >
> > > +1 in public vote.
> > >
> > > Sheng Wu
> > > Apache Skywalking, ShardingSphere, Zipkin
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > > 在 2019年6月14日，上午10:24，Adrian Cole <ad...@apache.org> 写道：
> > > >
> > > > The PPMC held a vote on our private list to withdraw from the Apache
> > > > Incubator. We did this for reason of discretion, similar to how new
> > > > PPMC members are voted in, and for lack of any formal process to
> > > > conduct such a vote. John D. Ament asked us to vote again "to keep
> our
> > > > own processes simple", so this vote is in accordance with that
> > > > request.
> > > >
> > > > 8 votes to leave carry over from the private list, including 7 of our
> > > > 12 PPMC members [1]. There were no 0 or -1 votes cast.
> > > >
> > > > IPMC +1 Sheng Wu
> > > > PPMC +7 Adrian Cole, Bas van Beek, José Carlos Chávez, Kristof
> > > > Adriaenssens, Jorge Esteban Quilcate Otoya, Brian Devins-Suresh,
> Lance
> > > > Linder
> > > >
> > > > Here's the private thread:
> > > >
> > >
> >
> https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/b47dc4cdce50ca5d4229d73d2ac745904e3a4b70bebfabe1cbf7c55a@%3Cprivate.zipkin.apache.org%3E
> > > >
> > > > Below is the description of the vote, which we'll extend here for 72
> > > > hours. Folks who have formerly voted can feel free to vote again.
> > > > ----
> > > >
> > > > It has been the experience from more than one of us that the Apache
> > > > Incubator is more stressful and requires more effort than initially
> > > > anticipated or is necessary. This vote recommends we leave the
> > > > incubator back to the OpenZipkin org and carry on as we did.
> > > >
> > > > Here is some background. I will not cite here. If you are a committer
> > > > you can also express your point of view with or without citing. Your
> > > > opinions matter and I hope you all vote.
> > > >
> > > > Process and policy ambiguity has been ever present and cost us a lot
> > > > of time and energy. The incubator spends more energy on failing us
> > > > than helping us. Tooling gaps, whether related to process management,
> > > > source verification or multiple repositories have impacted us as
> well.
> > > > We have lost considerable velocity since attempting to join. Even if
> > > > we graduate, there is no guarantee strictness felt so far won't carry
> > > > over.
> > > >
> > > > The burdens don't stop here, there is a lot of fear about our greater
> > > > community, OpenZipkin and how to fireproof branding across what is
> > > > Apache and what is not. This is not only a cultural miss for us, but
> > > > yet more overhead and also tension. We still have to maintain the old
> > > > namespace, and we also get tension from the incubator that the old
> > > > namespace exists. Probably many projects can control their whole
> > > > ecosystem but we cannot and as far as I know do not desire to either.
> > > > We are all the same class.
> > > >
> > > > Some large projects can afford incubator strictness and carry on
> > > > despite these hurdles and lack of tools. Small or mono repo projects
> > > > have far less work anyway. Those with larger projects usually have
> > > > fulltime staff to address the gaps, write nice websites navigating
> > > > process, make tools etc. It is costly and we are frankly by
> definition
> > > > not rich.
> > > >
> > > > Moreover, OpenZipkin is culturally against building things that
> > > > require effort to get working. Our very first act as a part of a
> > > > community was to remove the burden of forcing users to build from
> > > > source. There is definitely conflict with us and a culture
> preoccupied
> > > > with source ceremony and without interest to the impacts on
> volunteers
> > > > or the quality if the experience. This mismatch has led to many
> > > > problems that distract us from our purpose as a project in ways
> > > > including time displacement and low morale. This is despite multiple
> > > > escalations from our mentors.
> > > >
> > > > For reasons of resources, poor experience and cultural
> > > > incompatibility, I recommend we leave the incubator and re-unify as
> > > > OpenZipkin again.
> > > >
> > > > If you vote -1, it is to remain. Please mention concrete efforts you
> > > > will take personally to address the problems, and which
> > > > responsibilities you will take on, if you vote -1.
> > > >
> > > > Voting ends 3 days from today, i.e. midnight UTC on 2019-06-17
> > > >
> > http://www.timeanddate.com/counters/customcounter.html?year=2019&month=
> > > > 06&day=17
> > > >
> > > > [1] https://whimsy.apache.org/roster/ppmc/zipkin
> > > >
> > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@zipkin.apache.org
> > > > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@zipkin.apache.org
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@zipkin.apache.org
> > > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@zipkin.apache.org
> > >
> > >
> >
>
Re: [VOTE] Withdraw from the Apache Incubator
Posted by Kristof Adriaenssens <kr...@gmail.com>.
+1
On Fri 14. Jun 2019 at 08:42, Anuraag Agrawal <an...@apache.org> wrote:
> +1
>
> On 2019/06/14 06:05:01, Jorge Esteban Quilcate Otoya <
> quilcate.jorge@gmail.com> wrote:
> > +1
> >
> > On Fri, 14 Jun 2019, 07:29 Jorg Heymans, <jo...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > +1 (non-binding)
> > >
> > > Op vr 14 jun. 2019 05:49 schreef Sheng Wu <wu...@gmail.com>:
> > >
> > > > +1 in public vote.
> > > >
> > > > Sheng Wu
> > > > Apache Skywalking, ShardingSphere, Zipkin
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > 在 2019年6月14日，上午10:24，Adrian Cole <ad...@apache.org> 写道：
> > > > >
> > > > > The PPMC held a vote on our private list to withdraw from the
> Apache
> > > > > Incubator. We did this for reason of discretion, similar to how new
> > > > > PPMC members are voted in, and for lack of any formal process to
> > > > > conduct such a vote. John D. Ament asked us to vote again "to keep
> our
> > > > > own processes simple", so this vote is in accordance with that
> > > > > request.
> > > > >
> > > > > 8 votes to leave carry over from the private list, including 7 of
> our
> > > > > 12 PPMC members [1]. There were no 0 or -1 votes cast.
> > > > >
> > > > > IPMC +1 Sheng Wu
> > > > > PPMC +7 Adrian Cole, Bas van Beek, José Carlos Chávez, Kristof
> > > > > Adriaenssens, Jorge Esteban Quilcate Otoya, Brian Devins-Suresh,
> Lance
> > > > > Linder
> > > > >
> > > > > Here's the private thread:
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/b47dc4cdce50ca5d4229d73d2ac745904e3a4b70bebfabe1cbf7c55a@%3Cprivate.zipkin.apache.org%3E
> > > > >
> > > > > Below is the description of the vote, which we'll extend here for
> 72
> > > > > hours. Folks who have formerly voted can feel free to vote again.
> > > > > ----
> > > > >
> > > > > It has been the experience from more than one of us that the Apache
> > > > > Incubator is more stressful and requires more effort than initially
> > > > > anticipated or is necessary. This vote recommends we leave the
> > > > > incubator back to the OpenZipkin org and carry on as we did.
> > > > >
> > > > > Here is some background. I will not cite here. If you are a
> committer
> > > > > you can also express your point of view with or without citing.
> Your
> > > > > opinions matter and I hope you all vote.
> > > > >
> > > > > Process and policy ambiguity has been ever present and cost us a
> lot
> > > > > of time and energy. The incubator spends more energy on failing us
> > > > > than helping us. Tooling gaps, whether related to process
> management,
> > > > > source verification or multiple repositories have impacted us as
> well.
> > > > > We have lost considerable velocity since attempting to join. Even
> if
> > > > > we graduate, there is no guarantee strictness felt so far won't
> carry
> > > > > over.
> > > > >
> > > > > The burdens don't stop here, there is a lot of fear about our
> greater
> > > > > community, OpenZipkin and how to fireproof branding across what is
> > > > > Apache and what is not. This is not only a cultural miss for us,
> but
> > > > > yet more overhead and also tension. We still have to maintain the
> old
> > > > > namespace, and we also get tension from the incubator that the old
> > > > > namespace exists. Probably many projects can control their whole
> > > > > ecosystem but we cannot and as far as I know do not desire to
> either.
> > > > > We are all the same class.
> > > > >
> > > > > Some large projects can afford incubator strictness and carry on
> > > > > despite these hurdles and lack of tools. Small or mono repo
> projects
> > > > > have far less work anyway. Those with larger projects usually have
> > > > > fulltime staff to address the gaps, write nice websites navigating
> > > > > process, make tools etc. It is costly and we are frankly by
> definition
> > > > > not rich.
> > > > >
> > > > > Moreover, OpenZipkin is culturally against building things that
> > > > > require effort to get working. Our very first act as a part of a
> > > > > community was to remove the burden of forcing users to build from
> > > > > source. There is definitely conflict with us and a culture
> preoccupied
> > > > > with source ceremony and without interest to the impacts on
> volunteers
> > > > > or the quality if the experience. This mismatch has led to many
> > > > > problems that distract us from our purpose as a project in ways
> > > > > including time displacement and low morale. This is despite
> multiple
> > > > > escalations from our mentors.
> > > > >
> > > > > For reasons of resources, poor experience and cultural
> > > > > incompatibility, I recommend we leave the incubator and re-unify as
> > > > > OpenZipkin again.
> > > > >
> > > > > If you vote -1, it is to remain. Please mention concrete efforts
> you
> > > > > will take personally to address the problems, and which
> > > > > responsibilities you will take on, if you vote -1.
> > > > >
> > > > > Voting ends 3 days from today, i.e. midnight UTC on 2019-06-17
> > > > >
> > >
> http://www.timeanddate.com/counters/customcounter.html?year=2019&month=
> > > > > 06&day=17
> > > > >
> > > > > [1] https://whimsy.apache.org/roster/ppmc/zipkin
> > > > >
> > > > >
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@zipkin.apache.org
> > > > > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@zipkin.apache.org
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@zipkin.apache.org
> > > > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@zipkin.apache.org
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@zipkin.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@zipkin.apache.org
>
>
Re: [VOTE] Withdraw from the Apache Incubator
Posted by Anuraag Agrawal <an...@apache.org>.
+1
On 2019/06/14 06:05:01, Jorge Esteban Quilcate Otoya <qu...@gmail.com> wrote:
> +1
>
> On Fri, 14 Jun 2019, 07:29 Jorg Heymans, <jo...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > +1 (non-binding)
> >
> > Op vr 14 jun. 2019 05:49 schreef Sheng Wu <wu...@gmail.com>:
> >
> > > +1 in public vote.
> > >
> > > Sheng Wu
> > > Apache Skywalking, ShardingSphere, Zipkin
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > > 在 2019年6月14日，上午10:24，Adrian Cole <ad...@apache.org> 写道：
> > > >
> > > > The PPMC held a vote on our private list to withdraw from the Apache
> > > > Incubator. We did this for reason of discretion, similar to how new
> > > > PPMC members are voted in, and for lack of any formal process to
> > > > conduct such a vote. John D. Ament asked us to vote again "to keep our
> > > > own processes simple", so this vote is in accordance with that
> > > > request.
> > > >
> > > > 8 votes to leave carry over from the private list, including 7 of our
> > > > 12 PPMC members [1]. There were no 0 or -1 votes cast.
> > > >
> > > > IPMC +1 Sheng Wu
> > > > PPMC +7 Adrian Cole, Bas van Beek, José Carlos Chávez, Kristof
> > > > Adriaenssens, Jorge Esteban Quilcate Otoya, Brian Devins-Suresh, Lance
> > > > Linder
> > > >
> > > > Here's the private thread:
> > > >
> > >
> > https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/b47dc4cdce50ca5d4229d73d2ac745904e3a4b70bebfabe1cbf7c55a@%3Cprivate.zipkin.apache.org%3E
> > > >
> > > > Below is the description of the vote, which we'll extend here for 72
> > > > hours. Folks who have formerly voted can feel free to vote again.
> > > > ----
> > > >
> > > > It has been the experience from more than one of us that the Apache
> > > > Incubator is more stressful and requires more effort than initially
> > > > anticipated or is necessary. This vote recommends we leave the
> > > > incubator back to the OpenZipkin org and carry on as we did.
> > > >
> > > > Here is some background. I will not cite here. If you are a committer
> > > > you can also express your point of view with or without citing. Your
> > > > opinions matter and I hope you all vote.
> > > >
> > > > Process and policy ambiguity has been ever present and cost us a lot
> > > > of time and energy. The incubator spends more energy on failing us
> > > > than helping us. Tooling gaps, whether related to process management,
> > > > source verification or multiple repositories have impacted us as well.
> > > > We have lost considerable velocity since attempting to join. Even if
> > > > we graduate, there is no guarantee strictness felt so far won't carry
> > > > over.
> > > >
> > > > The burdens don't stop here, there is a lot of fear about our greater
> > > > community, OpenZipkin and how to fireproof branding across what is
> > > > Apache and what is not. This is not only a cultural miss for us, but
> > > > yet more overhead and also tension. We still have to maintain the old
> > > > namespace, and we also get tension from the incubator that the old
> > > > namespace exists. Probably many projects can control their whole
> > > > ecosystem but we cannot and as far as I know do not desire to either.
> > > > We are all the same class.
> > > >
> > > > Some large projects can afford incubator strictness and carry on
> > > > despite these hurdles and lack of tools. Small or mono repo projects
> > > > have far less work anyway. Those with larger projects usually have
> > > > fulltime staff to address the gaps, write nice websites navigating
> > > > process, make tools etc. It is costly and we are frankly by definition
> > > > not rich.
> > > >
> > > > Moreover, OpenZipkin is culturally against building things that
> > > > require effort to get working. Our very first act as a part of a
> > > > community was to remove the burden of forcing users to build from
> > > > source. There is definitely conflict with us and a culture preoccupied
> > > > with source ceremony and without interest to the impacts on volunteers
> > > > or the quality if the experience. This mismatch has led to many
> > > > problems that distract us from our purpose as a project in ways
> > > > including time displacement and low morale. This is despite multiple
> > > > escalations from our mentors.
> > > >
> > > > For reasons of resources, poor experience and cultural
> > > > incompatibility, I recommend we leave the incubator and re-unify as
> > > > OpenZipkin again.
> > > >
> > > > If you vote -1, it is to remain. Please mention concrete efforts you
> > > > will take personally to address the problems, and which
> > > > responsibilities you will take on, if you vote -1.
> > > >
> > > > Voting ends 3 days from today, i.e. midnight UTC on 2019-06-17
> > > >
> > http://www.timeanddate.com/counters/customcounter.html?year=2019&month=
> > > > 06&day=17
> > > >
> > > > [1] https://whimsy.apache.org/roster/ppmc/zipkin
> > > >
> > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@zipkin.apache.org
> > > > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@zipkin.apache.org
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@zipkin.apache.org
> > > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@zipkin.apache.org
> > >
> > >
> >
>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@zipkin.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@zipkin.apache.org
Re: [VOTE] Withdraw from the Apache Incubator
Posted by Jorge Esteban Quilcate Otoya <qu...@gmail.com>.
+1
On Fri, 14 Jun 2019, 07:29 Jorg Heymans, <jo...@gmail.com> wrote:
> +1 (non-binding)
>
> Op vr 14 jun. 2019 05:49 schreef Sheng Wu <wu...@gmail.com>:
>
> > +1 in public vote.
> >
> > Sheng Wu
> > Apache Skywalking, ShardingSphere, Zipkin
> >
> >
> >
> > > 在 2019年6月14日，上午10:24，Adrian Cole <ad...@apache.org> 写道：
> > >
> > > The PPMC held a vote on our private list to withdraw from the Apache
> > > Incubator. We did this for reason of discretion, similar to how new
> > > PPMC members are voted in, and for lack of any formal process to
> > > conduct such a vote. John D. Ament asked us to vote again "to keep our
> > > own processes simple", so this vote is in accordance with that
> > > request.
> > >
> > > 8 votes to leave carry over from the private list, including 7 of our
> > > 12 PPMC members [1]. There were no 0 or -1 votes cast.
> > >
> > > IPMC +1 Sheng Wu
> > > PPMC +7 Adrian Cole, Bas van Beek, José Carlos Chávez, Kristof
> > > Adriaenssens, Jorge Esteban Quilcate Otoya, Brian Devins-Suresh, Lance
> > > Linder
> > >
> > > Here's the private thread:
> > >
> >
> https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/b47dc4cdce50ca5d4229d73d2ac745904e3a4b70bebfabe1cbf7c55a@%3Cprivate.zipkin.apache.org%3E
> > >
> > > Below is the description of the vote, which we'll extend here for 72
> > > hours. Folks who have formerly voted can feel free to vote again.
> > > ----
> > >
> > > It has been the experience from more than one of us that the Apache
> > > Incubator is more stressful and requires more effort than initially
> > > anticipated or is necessary. This vote recommends we leave the
> > > incubator back to the OpenZipkin org and carry on as we did.
> > >
> > > Here is some background. I will not cite here. If you are a committer
> > > you can also express your point of view with or without citing. Your
> > > opinions matter and I hope you all vote.
> > >
> > > Process and policy ambiguity has been ever present and cost us a lot
> > > of time and energy. The incubator spends more energy on failing us
> > > than helping us. Tooling gaps, whether related to process management,
> > > source verification or multiple repositories have impacted us as well.
> > > We have lost considerable velocity since attempting to join. Even if
> > > we graduate, there is no guarantee strictness felt so far won't carry
> > > over.
> > >
> > > The burdens don't stop here, there is a lot of fear about our greater
> > > community, OpenZipkin and how to fireproof branding across what is
> > > Apache and what is not. This is not only a cultural miss for us, but
> > > yet more overhead and also tension. We still have to maintain the old
> > > namespace, and we also get tension from the incubator that the old
> > > namespace exists. Probably many projects can control their whole
> > > ecosystem but we cannot and as far as I know do not desire to either.
> > > We are all the same class.
> > >
> > > Some large projects can afford incubator strictness and carry on
> > > despite these hurdles and lack of tools. Small or mono repo projects
> > > have far less work anyway. Those with larger projects usually have
> > > fulltime staff to address the gaps, write nice websites navigating
> > > process, make tools etc. It is costly and we are frankly by definition
> > > not rich.
> > >
> > > Moreover, OpenZipkin is culturally against building things that
> > > require effort to get working. Our very first act as a part of a
> > > community was to remove the burden of forcing users to build from
> > > source. There is definitely conflict with us and a culture preoccupied
> > > with source ceremony and without interest to the impacts on volunteers
> > > or the quality if the experience. This mismatch has led to many
> > > problems that distract us from our purpose as a project in ways
> > > including time displacement and low morale. This is despite multiple
> > > escalations from our mentors.
> > >
> > > For reasons of resources, poor experience and cultural
> > > incompatibility, I recommend we leave the incubator and re-unify as
> > > OpenZipkin again.
> > >
> > > If you vote -1, it is to remain. Please mention concrete efforts you
> > > will take personally to address the problems, and which
> > > responsibilities you will take on, if you vote -1.
> > >
> > > Voting ends 3 days from today, i.e. midnight UTC on 2019-06-17
> > >
> http://www.timeanddate.com/counters/customcounter.html?year=2019&month=
> > > 06&day=17
> > >
> > > [1] https://whimsy.apache.org/roster/ppmc/zipkin
> > >
> > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@zipkin.apache.org
> > > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@zipkin.apache.org
> > >
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@zipkin.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@zipkin.apache.org
> >
> >
>
Re: [VOTE] Withdraw from the Apache Incubator
Posted by Jorg Heymans <jo...@gmail.com>.
+1 (non-binding)
Op vr 14 jun. 2019 05:49 schreef Sheng Wu <wu...@gmail.com>:
> +1 in public vote.
>
> Sheng Wu
> Apache Skywalking, ShardingSphere, Zipkin
>
>
>
> > 在 2019年6月14日，上午10:24，Adrian Cole <ad...@apache.org> 写道：
> >
> > The PPMC held a vote on our private list to withdraw from the Apache
> > Incubator. We did this for reason of discretion, similar to how new
> > PPMC members are voted in, and for lack of any formal process to
> > conduct such a vote. John D. Ament asked us to vote again "to keep our
> > own processes simple", so this vote is in accordance with that
> > request.
> >
> > 8 votes to leave carry over from the private list, including 7 of our
> > 12 PPMC members [1]. There were no 0 or -1 votes cast.
> >
> > IPMC +1 Sheng Wu
> > PPMC +7 Adrian Cole, Bas van Beek, José Carlos Chávez, Kristof
> > Adriaenssens, Jorge Esteban Quilcate Otoya, Brian Devins-Suresh, Lance
> > Linder
> >
> > Here's the private thread:
> >
> https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/b47dc4cdce50ca5d4229d73d2ac745904e3a4b70bebfabe1cbf7c55a@%3Cprivate.zipkin.apache.org%3E
> >
> > Below is the description of the vote, which we'll extend here for 72
> > hours. Folks who have formerly voted can feel free to vote again.
> > ----
> >
> > It has been the experience from more than one of us that the Apache
> > Incubator is more stressful and requires more effort than initially
> > anticipated or is necessary. This vote recommends we leave the
> > incubator back to the OpenZipkin org and carry on as we did.
> >
> > Here is some background. I will not cite here. If you are a committer
> > you can also express your point of view with or without citing. Your
> > opinions matter and I hope you all vote.
> >
> > Process and policy ambiguity has been ever present and cost us a lot
> > of time and energy. The incubator spends more energy on failing us
> > than helping us. Tooling gaps, whether related to process management,
> > source verification or multiple repositories have impacted us as well.
> > We have lost considerable velocity since attempting to join. Even if
> > we graduate, there is no guarantee strictness felt so far won't carry
> > over.
> >
> > The burdens don't stop here, there is a lot of fear about our greater
> > community, OpenZipkin and how to fireproof branding across what is
> > Apache and what is not. This is not only a cultural miss for us, but
> > yet more overhead and also tension. We still have to maintain the old
> > namespace, and we also get tension from the incubator that the old
> > namespace exists. Probably many projects can control their whole
> > ecosystem but we cannot and as far as I know do not desire to either.
> > We are all the same class.
> >
> > Some large projects can afford incubator strictness and carry on
> > despite these hurdles and lack of tools. Small or mono repo projects
> > have far less work anyway. Those with larger projects usually have
> > fulltime staff to address the gaps, write nice websites navigating
> > process, make tools etc. It is costly and we are frankly by definition
> > not rich.
> >
> > Moreover, OpenZipkin is culturally against building things that
> > require effort to get working. Our very first act as a part of a
> > community was to remove the burden of forcing users to build from
> > source. There is definitely conflict with us and a culture preoccupied
> > with source ceremony and without interest to the impacts on volunteers
> > or the quality if the experience. This mismatch has led to many
> > problems that distract us from our purpose as a project in ways
> > including time displacement and low morale. This is despite multiple
> > escalations from our mentors.
> >
> > For reasons of resources, poor experience and cultural
> > incompatibility, I recommend we leave the incubator and re-unify as
> > OpenZipkin again.
> >
> > If you vote -1, it is to remain. Please mention concrete efforts you
> > will take personally to address the problems, and which
> > responsibilities you will take on, if you vote -1.
> >
> > Voting ends 3 days from today, i.e. midnight UTC on 2019-06-17
> > http://www.timeanddate.com/counters/customcounter.html?year=2019&month=
> > 06&day=17
> >
> > [1] https://whimsy.apache.org/roster/ppmc/zipkin
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@zipkin.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@zipkin.apache.org
> >
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@zipkin.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@zipkin.apache.org
>
>
Re: [VOTE] Withdraw from the Apache Incubator
Posted by Sheng Wu <wu...@gmail.com>.
+1 in public vote.
Sheng Wu
Apache Skywalking, ShardingSphere, Zipkin
> 在 2019年6月14日，上午10:24，Adrian Cole <ad...@apache.org> 写道：
>
> The PPMC held a vote on our private list to withdraw from the Apache
> Incubator. We did this for reason of discretion, similar to how new
> PPMC members are voted in, and for lack of any formal process to
> conduct such a vote. John D. Ament asked us to vote again "to keep our
> own processes simple", so this vote is in accordance with that
> request.
>
> 8 votes to leave carry over from the private list, including 7 of our
> 12 PPMC members [1]. There were no 0 or -1 votes cast.
>
> IPMC +1 Sheng Wu
> PPMC +7 Adrian Cole, Bas van Beek, José Carlos Chávez, Kristof
> Adriaenssens, Jorge Esteban Quilcate Otoya, Brian Devins-Suresh, Lance
> Linder
>
> Here's the private thread:
> https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/b47dc4cdce50ca5d4229d73d2ac745904e3a4b70bebfabe1cbf7c55a@%3Cprivate.zipkin.apache.org%3E
>
> Below is the description of the vote, which we'll extend here for 72
> hours. Folks who have formerly voted can feel free to vote again.
> ----
>
> It has been the experience from more than one of us that the Apache
> Incubator is more stressful and requires more effort than initially
> anticipated or is necessary. This vote recommends we leave the
> incubator back to the OpenZipkin org and carry on as we did.
>
> Here is some background. I will not cite here. If you are a committer
> you can also express your point of view with or without citing. Your
> opinions matter and I hope you all vote.
>
> Process and policy ambiguity has been ever present and cost us a lot
> of time and energy. The incubator spends more energy on failing us
> than helping us. Tooling gaps, whether related to process management,
> source verification or multiple repositories have impacted us as well.
> We have lost considerable velocity since attempting to join. Even if
> we graduate, there is no guarantee strictness felt so far won't carry
> over.
>
> The burdens don't stop here, there is a lot of fear about our greater
> community, OpenZipkin and how to fireproof branding across what is
> Apache and what is not. This is not only a cultural miss for us, but
> yet more overhead and also tension. We still have to maintain the old
> namespace, and we also get tension from the incubator that the old
> namespace exists. Probably many projects can control their whole
> ecosystem but we cannot and as far as I know do not desire to either.
> We are all the same class.
>
> Some large projects can afford incubator strictness and carry on
> despite these hurdles and lack of tools. Small or mono repo projects
> have far less work anyway. Those with larger projects usually have
> fulltime staff to address the gaps, write nice websites navigating
> process, make tools etc. It is costly and we are frankly by definition
> not rich.
>
> Moreover, OpenZipkin is culturally against building things that
> require effort to get working. Our very first act as a part of a
> community was to remove the burden of forcing users to build from
> source. There is definitely conflict with us and a culture preoccupied
> with source ceremony and without interest to the impacts on volunteers
> or the quality if the experience. This mismatch has led to many
> problems that distract us from our purpose as a project in ways
> including time displacement and low morale. This is despite multiple
> escalations from our mentors.
>
> For reasons of resources, poor experience and cultural
> incompatibility, I recommend we leave the incubator and re-unify as
> OpenZipkin again.
>
> If you vote -1, it is to remain. Please mention concrete efforts you
> will take personally to address the problems, and which
> responsibilities you will take on, if you vote -1.
>
> Voting ends 3 days from today, i.e. midnight UTC on 2019-06-17
> http://www.timeanddate.com/counters/customcounter.html?year=2019&month=
> 06&day=17
>
> [1] https://whimsy.apache.org/roster/ppmc/zipkin
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@zipkin.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@zipkin.apache.org
>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
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For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@zipkin.apache.org
Re: [VOTE] Withdraw from the Apache Incubator
Posted by Willem Jiang <wi...@gmail.com>.
+1, I can felt the pain of Zipkin and I respect the choice of Zipkin team.
Willem Jiang
Twitter: willemjiang
Weibo: 姜宁willem
On Fri, Jun 14, 2019 at 9:08 PM Brian Devins-Suresh <ba...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> +1 the pain/gain ratio was too high
>
> On Fri, Jun 14, 2019 at 4:10 AM <ba...@tobin.nl> wrote:
>
> > +1
> >
> > > Op 14 jun. 2019, om 04:24 heeft Adrian Cole <ad...@apache.org> het
> > volgende geschreven:
> > >
> > > The PPMC held a vote on our private list to withdraw from the Apache
> > > Incubator. We did this for reason of discretion, similar to how new
> > > PPMC members are voted in, and for lack of any formal process to
> > > conduct such a vote. John D. Ament asked us to vote again "to keep our
> > > own processes simple", so this vote is in accordance with that
> > > request.
> > >
> > > 8 votes to leave carry over from the private list, including 7 of our
> > > 12 PPMC members [1]. There were no 0 or -1 votes cast.
> > >
> > > IPMC +1 Sheng Wu
> > > PPMC +7 Adrian Cole, Bas van Beek, José Carlos Chávez, Kristof
> > > Adriaenssens, Jorge Esteban Quilcate Otoya, Brian Devins-Suresh, Lance
> > > Linder
> > >
> > > Here's the private thread:
> > >
> > https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/b47dc4cdce50ca5d4229d73d2ac745904e3a4b70bebfabe1cbf7c55a@%3Cprivate.zipkin.apache.org%3E
> > >
> > > Below is the description of the vote, which we'll extend here for 72
> > > hours. Folks who have formerly voted can feel free to vote again.
> > > ----
> > >
> > > It has been the experience from more than one of us that the Apache
> > > Incubator is more stressful and requires more effort than initially
> > > anticipated or is necessary. This vote recommends we leave the
> > > incubator back to the OpenZipkin org and carry on as we did.
> > >
> > > Here is some background. I will not cite here. If you are a committer
> > > you can also express your point of view with or without citing. Your
> > > opinions matter and I hope you all vote.
> > >
> > > Process and policy ambiguity has been ever present and cost us a lot
> > > of time and energy. The incubator spends more energy on failing us
> > > than helping us. Tooling gaps, whether related to process management,
> > > source verification or multiple repositories have impacted us as well.
> > > We have lost considerable velocity since attempting to join. Even if
> > > we graduate, there is no guarantee strictness felt so far won't carry
> > > over.
> > >
> > > The burdens don't stop here, there is a lot of fear about our greater
> > > community, OpenZipkin and how to fireproof branding across what is
> > > Apache and what is not. This is not only a cultural miss for us, but
> > > yet more overhead and also tension. We still have to maintain the old
> > > namespace, and we also get tension from the incubator that the old
> > > namespace exists. Probably many projects can control their whole
> > > ecosystem but we cannot and as far as I know do not desire to either.
> > > We are all the same class.
> > >
> > > Some large projects can afford incubator strictness and carry on
> > > despite these hurdles and lack of tools. Small or mono repo projects
> > > have far less work anyway. Those with larger projects usually have
> > > fulltime staff to address the gaps, write nice websites navigating
> > > process, make tools etc. It is costly and we are frankly by definition
> > > not rich.
> > >
> > > Moreover, OpenZipkin is culturally against building things that
> > > require effort to get working. Our very first act as a part of a
> > > community was to remove the burden of forcing users to build from
> > > source. There is definitely conflict with us and a culture preoccupied
> > > with source ceremony and without interest to the impacts on volunteers
> > > or the quality if the experience. This mismatch has led to many
> > > problems that distract us from our purpose as a project in ways
> > > including time displacement and low morale. This is despite multiple
> > > escalations from our mentors.
> > >
> > > For reasons of resources, poor experience and cultural
> > > incompatibility, I recommend we leave the incubator and re-unify as
> > > OpenZipkin again.
> > >
> > > If you vote -1, it is to remain. Please mention concrete efforts you
> > > will take personally to address the problems, and which
> > > responsibilities you will take on, if you vote -1.
> > >
> > > Voting ends 3 days from today, i.e. midnight UTC on 2019-06-17
> > > http://www.timeanddate.com/counters/customcounter.html?year=2019&month=
> > > 06&day=17
> > >
> > > [1] https://whimsy.apache.org/roster/ppmc/zipkin
> > >
> > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@zipkin.apache.org
> > > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@zipkin.apache.org
> > >
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@zipkin.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@zipkin.apache.org
> >
> >
---------------------------------------------------------------------
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For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@zipkin.apache.org
Re: [VOTE] Withdraw from the Apache Incubator
Posted by Brian Devins-Suresh <ba...@gmail.com>.
+1 the pain/gain ratio was too high
On Fri, Jun 14, 2019 at 4:10 AM <ba...@tobin.nl> wrote:
> +1
>
> > Op 14 jun. 2019, om 04:24 heeft Adrian Cole <ad...@apache.org> het
> volgende geschreven:
> >
> > The PPMC held a vote on our private list to withdraw from the Apache
> > Incubator. We did this for reason of discretion, similar to how new
> > PPMC members are voted in, and for lack of any formal process to
> > conduct such a vote. John D. Ament asked us to vote again "to keep our
> > own processes simple", so this vote is in accordance with that
> > request.
> >
> > 8 votes to leave carry over from the private list, including 7 of our
> > 12 PPMC members [1]. There were no 0 or -1 votes cast.
> >
> > IPMC +1 Sheng Wu
> > PPMC +7 Adrian Cole, Bas van Beek, José Carlos Chávez, Kristof
> > Adriaenssens, Jorge Esteban Quilcate Otoya, Brian Devins-Suresh, Lance
> > Linder
> >
> > Here's the private thread:
> >
> https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/b47dc4cdce50ca5d4229d73d2ac745904e3a4b70bebfabe1cbf7c55a@%3Cprivate.zipkin.apache.org%3E
> >
> > Below is the description of the vote, which we'll extend here for 72
> > hours. Folks who have formerly voted can feel free to vote again.
> > ----
> >
> > It has been the experience from more than one of us that the Apache
> > Incubator is more stressful and requires more effort than initially
> > anticipated or is necessary. This vote recommends we leave the
> > incubator back to the OpenZipkin org and carry on as we did.
> >
> > Here is some background. I will not cite here. If you are a committer
> > you can also express your point of view with or without citing. Your
> > opinions matter and I hope you all vote.
> >
> > Process and policy ambiguity has been ever present and cost us a lot
> > of time and energy. The incubator spends more energy on failing us
> > than helping us. Tooling gaps, whether related to process management,
> > source verification or multiple repositories have impacted us as well.
> > We have lost considerable velocity since attempting to join. Even if
> > we graduate, there is no guarantee strictness felt so far won't carry
> > over.
> >
> > The burdens don't stop here, there is a lot of fear about our greater
> > community, OpenZipkin and how to fireproof branding across what is
> > Apache and what is not. This is not only a cultural miss for us, but
> > yet more overhead and also tension. We still have to maintain the old
> > namespace, and we also get tension from the incubator that the old
> > namespace exists. Probably many projects can control their whole
> > ecosystem but we cannot and as far as I know do not desire to either.
> > We are all the same class.
> >
> > Some large projects can afford incubator strictness and carry on
> > despite these hurdles and lack of tools. Small or mono repo projects
> > have far less work anyway. Those with larger projects usually have
> > fulltime staff to address the gaps, write nice websites navigating
> > process, make tools etc. It is costly and we are frankly by definition
> > not rich.
> >
> > Moreover, OpenZipkin is culturally against building things that
> > require effort to get working. Our very first act as a part of a
> > community was to remove the burden of forcing users to build from
> > source. There is definitely conflict with us and a culture preoccupied
> > with source ceremony and without interest to the impacts on volunteers
> > or the quality if the experience. This mismatch has led to many
> > problems that distract us from our purpose as a project in ways
> > including time displacement and low morale. This is despite multiple
> > escalations from our mentors.
> >
> > For reasons of resources, poor experience and cultural
> > incompatibility, I recommend we leave the incubator and re-unify as
> > OpenZipkin again.
> >
> > If you vote -1, it is to remain. Please mention concrete efforts you
> > will take personally to address the problems, and which
> > responsibilities you will take on, if you vote -1.
> >
> > Voting ends 3 days from today, i.e. midnight UTC on 2019-06-17
> > http://www.timeanddate.com/counters/customcounter.html?year=2019&month=
> > 06&day=17
> >
> > [1] https://whimsy.apache.org/roster/ppmc/zipkin
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@zipkin.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@zipkin.apache.org
> >
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@zipkin.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@zipkin.apache.org
>
>
Re: [VOTE] Withdraw from the Apache Incubator
Posted by ba...@tobin.nl.
+1
> Op 14 jun. 2019, om 04:24 heeft Adrian Cole <ad...@apache.org> het volgende geschreven:
>
> The PPMC held a vote on our private list to withdraw from the Apache
> Incubator. We did this for reason of discretion, similar to how new
> PPMC members are voted in, and for lack of any formal process to
> conduct such a vote. John D. Ament asked us to vote again "to keep our
> own processes simple", so this vote is in accordance with that
> request.
>
> 8 votes to leave carry over from the private list, including 7 of our
> 12 PPMC members [1]. There were no 0 or -1 votes cast.
>
> IPMC +1 Sheng Wu
> PPMC +7 Adrian Cole, Bas van Beek, José Carlos Chávez, Kristof
> Adriaenssens, Jorge Esteban Quilcate Otoya, Brian Devins-Suresh, Lance
> Linder
>
> Here's the private thread:
> https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/b47dc4cdce50ca5d4229d73d2ac745904e3a4b70bebfabe1cbf7c55a@%3Cprivate.zipkin.apache.org%3E
>
> Below is the description of the vote, which we'll extend here for 72
> hours. Folks who have formerly voted can feel free to vote again.
> ----
>
> It has been the experience from more than one of us that the Apache
> Incubator is more stressful and requires more effort than initially
> anticipated or is necessary. This vote recommends we leave the
> incubator back to the OpenZipkin org and carry on as we did.
>
> Here is some background. I will not cite here. If you are a committer
> you can also express your point of view with or without citing. Your
> opinions matter and I hope you all vote.
>
> Process and policy ambiguity has been ever present and cost us a lot
> of time and energy. The incubator spends more energy on failing us
> than helping us. Tooling gaps, whether related to process management,
> source verification or multiple repositories have impacted us as well.
> We have lost considerable velocity since attempting to join. Even if
> we graduate, there is no guarantee strictness felt so far won't carry
> over.
>
> The burdens don't stop here, there is a lot of fear about our greater
> community, OpenZipkin and how to fireproof branding across what is
> Apache and what is not. This is not only a cultural miss for us, but
> yet more overhead and also tension. We still have to maintain the old
> namespace, and we also get tension from the incubator that the old
> namespace exists. Probably many projects can control their whole
> ecosystem but we cannot and as far as I know do not desire to either.
> We are all the same class.
>
> Some large projects can afford incubator strictness and carry on
> despite these hurdles and lack of tools. Small or mono repo projects
> have far less work anyway. Those with larger projects usually have
> fulltime staff to address the gaps, write nice websites navigating
> process, make tools etc. It is costly and we are frankly by definition
> not rich.
>
> Moreover, OpenZipkin is culturally against building things that
> require effort to get working. Our very first act as a part of a
> community was to remove the burden of forcing users to build from
> source. There is definitely conflict with us and a culture preoccupied
> with source ceremony and without interest to the impacts on volunteers
> or the quality if the experience. This mismatch has led to many
> problems that distract us from our purpose as a project in ways
> including time displacement and low morale. This is despite multiple
> escalations from our mentors.
>
> For reasons of resources, poor experience and cultural
> incompatibility, I recommend we leave the incubator and re-unify as
> OpenZipkin again.
>
> If you vote -1, it is to remain. Please mention concrete efforts you
> will take personally to address the problems, and which
> responsibilities you will take on, if you vote -1.
>
> Voting ends 3 days from today, i.e. midnight UTC on 2019-06-17
> http://www.timeanddate.com/counters/customcounter.html?year=2019&month=
> 06&day=17
>
> [1] https://whimsy.apache.org/roster/ppmc/zipkin
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@zipkin.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@zipkin.apache.org
>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
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For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@zipkin.apache.org
Re: [VOTE] Withdraw from the Apache Incubator
Posted by Raja Sundaram Ganesan <su...@gmail.com>.
+1 to withdraw
On Fri, Jun 14, 2019 at 10:27 AM Adrian Cole <ad...@apache.org> wrote:
> +1
>
> On 2019/06/14 02:24:56, Adrian Cole <ad...@apache.org> wrote:
> > The PPMC held a vote on our private list to withdraw from the Apache
> > Incubator. We did this for reason of discretion, similar to how new
> > PPMC members are voted in, and for lack of any formal process to
> > conduct such a vote. John D. Ament asked us to vote again "to keep our
> > own processes simple", so this vote is in accordance with that
> > request.
> >
> > 8 votes to leave carry over from the private list, including 7 of our
> > 12 PPMC members [1]. There were no 0 or -1 votes cast.
> >
> > IPMC +1 Sheng Wu
> > PPMC +7 Adrian Cole, Bas van Beek, José Carlos Chávez, Kristof
> > Adriaenssens, Jorge Esteban Quilcate Otoya, Brian Devins-Suresh, Lance
> > Linder
> >
> > Here's the private thread:
> >
> https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/b47dc4cdce50ca5d4229d73d2ac745904e3a4b70bebfabe1cbf7c55a@%3Cprivate.zipkin.apache.org%3E
> >
> > Below is the description of the vote, which we'll extend here for 72
> > hours. Folks who have formerly voted can feel free to vote again.
> > ----
> >
> > It has been the experience from more than one of us that the Apache
> > Incubator is more stressful and requires more effort than initially
> > anticipated or is necessary. This vote recommends we leave the
> > incubator back to the OpenZipkin org and carry on as we did.
> >
> > Here is some background. I will not cite here. If you are a committer
> > you can also express your point of view with or without citing. Your
> > opinions matter and I hope you all vote.
> >
> > Process and policy ambiguity has been ever present and cost us a lot
> > of time and energy. The incubator spends more energy on failing us
> > than helping us. Tooling gaps, whether related to process management,
> > source verification or multiple repositories have impacted us as well.
> > We have lost considerable velocity since attempting to join. Even if
> > we graduate, there is no guarantee strictness felt so far won't carry
> > over.
> >
> > The burdens don't stop here, there is a lot of fear about our greater
> > community, OpenZipkin and how to fireproof branding across what is
> > Apache and what is not. This is not only a cultural miss for us, but
> > yet more overhead and also tension. We still have to maintain the old
> > namespace, and we also get tension from the incubator that the old
> > namespace exists. Probably many projects can control their whole
> > ecosystem but we cannot and as far as I know do not desire to either.
> > We are all the same class.
> >
> > Some large projects can afford incubator strictness and carry on
> > despite these hurdles and lack of tools. Small or mono repo projects
> > have far less work anyway. Those with larger projects usually have
> > fulltime staff to address the gaps, write nice websites navigating
> > process, make tools etc. It is costly and we are frankly by definition
> > not rich.
> >
> > Moreover, OpenZipkin is culturally against building things that
> > require effort to get working. Our very first act as a part of a
> > community was to remove the burden of forcing users to build from
> > source. There is definitely conflict with us and a culture preoccupied
> > with source ceremony and without interest to the impacts on volunteers
> > or the quality if the experience. This mismatch has led to many
> > problems that distract us from our purpose as a project in ways
> > including time displacement and low morale. This is despite multiple
> > escalations from our mentors.
> >
> > For reasons of resources, poor experience and cultural
> > incompatibility, I recommend we leave the incubator and re-unify as
> > OpenZipkin again.
> >
> > If you vote -1, it is to remain. Please mention concrete efforts you
> > will take personally to address the problems, and which
> > responsibilities you will take on, if you vote -1.
> >
> > Voting ends 3 days from today, i.e. midnight UTC on 2019-06-17
> > http://www.timeanddate.com/counters/customcounter.html?year=2019&month=
> > 06&day=17
> >
> > [1] https://whimsy.apache.org/roster/ppmc/zipkin
> >
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> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@zipkin.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@zipkin.apache.org
> >
> >
>
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>
Re: [VOTE] Withdraw from the Apache Incubator
Posted by Adrian Cole <ad...@apache.org>.
+1
On 2019/06/14 02:24:56, Adrian Cole <ad...@apache.org> wrote:
> The PPMC held a vote on our private list to withdraw from the Apache
> Incubator. We did this for reason of discretion, similar to how new
> PPMC members are voted in, and for lack of any formal process to
> conduct such a vote. John D. Ament asked us to vote again "to keep our
> own processes simple", so this vote is in accordance with that
> request.
>
> 8 votes to leave carry over from the private list, including 7 of our
> 12 PPMC members [1]. There were no 0 or -1 votes cast.
>
> IPMC +1 Sheng Wu
> PPMC +7 Adrian Cole, Bas van Beek, José Carlos Chávez, Kristof
> Adriaenssens, Jorge Esteban Quilcate Otoya, Brian Devins-Suresh, Lance
> Linder
>
> Here's the private thread:
> https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/b47dc4cdce50ca5d4229d73d2ac745904e3a4b70bebfabe1cbf7c55a@%3Cprivate.zipkin.apache.org%3E
>
> Below is the description of the vote, which we'll extend here for 72
> hours. Folks who have formerly voted can feel free to vote again.
> ----
>
> It has been the experience from more than one of us that the Apache
> Incubator is more stressful and requires more effort than initially
> anticipated or is necessary. This vote recommends we leave the
> incubator back to the OpenZipkin org and carry on as we did.
>
> Here is some background. I will not cite here. If you are a committer
> you can also express your point of view with or without citing. Your
> opinions matter and I hope you all vote.
>
> Process and policy ambiguity has been ever present and cost us a lot
> of time and energy. The incubator spends more energy on failing us
> than helping us. Tooling gaps, whether related to process management,
> source verification or multiple repositories have impacted us as well.
> We have lost considerable velocity since attempting to join. Even if
> we graduate, there is no guarantee strictness felt so far won't carry
> over.
>
> The burdens don't stop here, there is a lot of fear about our greater
> community, OpenZipkin and how to fireproof branding across what is
> Apache and what is not. This is not only a cultural miss for us, but
> yet more overhead and also tension. We still have to maintain the old
> namespace, and we also get tension from the incubator that the old
> namespace exists. Probably many projects can control their whole
> ecosystem but we cannot and as far as I know do not desire to either.
> We are all the same class.
>
> Some large projects can afford incubator strictness and carry on
> despite these hurdles and lack of tools. Small or mono repo projects
> have far less work anyway. Those with larger projects usually have
> fulltime staff to address the gaps, write nice websites navigating
> process, make tools etc. It is costly and we are frankly by definition
> not rich.
>
> Moreover, OpenZipkin is culturally against building things that
> require effort to get working. Our very first act as a part of a
> community was to remove the burden of forcing users to build from
> source. There is definitely conflict with us and a culture preoccupied
> with source ceremony and without interest to the impacts on volunteers
> or the quality if the experience. This mismatch has led to many
> problems that distract us from our purpose as a project in ways
> including time displacement and low morale. This is despite multiple
> escalations from our mentors.
>
> For reasons of resources, poor experience and cultural
> incompatibility, I recommend we leave the incubator and re-unify as
> OpenZipkin again.
>
> If you vote -1, it is to remain. Please mention concrete efforts you
> will take personally to address the problems, and which
> responsibilities you will take on, if you vote -1.
>
> Voting ends 3 days from today, i.e. midnight UTC on 2019-06-17
> http://www.timeanddate.com/counters/customcounter.html?year=2019&month=
> 06&day=17
>
> [1] https://whimsy.apache.org/roster/ppmc/zipkin
>
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> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@zipkin.apache.org
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