You are viewing a plain text version of this content. The canonical link for it is here.
Posted to dev@avalon.apache.org by J Aaron Farr <ja...@yahoo.com> on 2003/06/25 06:43:50 UTC
new phoenixjms
Hello.
Okay, it's not an official phoenixjms upgrade, since I haven't had
anyone from that team respond to my emails (it's been a little while
too), so technically this is a fork though I'd love to contribute it
back to the project.
Anyway, it's updated for openjms 0.7.5 and it runs in both phoenix and
merlin (though it's not quite as elegant as I would like).
You can find more info at:
http://jadetower.org/vqwiki/jsp/Wiki?AvalonJMS
Enjoy!
--
jaaron <http://jadetower.org>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@avalon.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@avalon.apache.org
Re: Avalon Namespace (was: Re: new phoenixjms)
Posted by Peter Donald <pe...@realityforge.org>.
On Thu, 26 Jun 2003 12:14 pm, Peter Donald wrote:
> > - Projects which state in their documentation things like:
> > "Based on Apache Avalon"
> > "Powered by Apache Avalon"
> > "Avalon compatible"
> > "Works with/in Apache Avalon Containers"
>
> Those are not compatible.
Should read "those are not problems"
--
Cheers,
Peter Donald
*--------------------------------*
| Every rule has an exception, |
| except the rule of exceptions. |
*--------------------------------*
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@avalon.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@avalon.apache.org
Re: Avalon Namespace
Posted by Berin Loritsch <bl...@apache.org>.
J Aaron Farr wrote:
> On Wed, 2003-06-25 at 22:14, Peter Donald wrote:
>
>>>- Use of any Apache or Avalon logos, icons, etc.
>>
>>Apache logos have a policy document describing usage but Avalon logos policy
>>is decided by Avalon PMC.
>
>
> So what does the PMC think about this:
>
> http://jadetower.org/images/avalon-power.png
>
> Not all that original, but a start! :)
>
Looks good!
--
"They that give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety
deserve neither liberty nor safety."
- Benjamin Franklin
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@avalon.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@avalon.apache.org
Re: Avalon Namespace (was: Re: new phoenixjms)
Posted by J Aaron Farr <ja...@yahoo.com>.
On Wed, 2003-06-25 at 22:14, Peter Donald wrote:
>
> > - Use of any Apache or Avalon logos, icons, etc.
>
> Apache logos have a policy document describing usage but Avalon logos policy
> is decided by Avalon PMC.
So what does the PMC think about this:
http://jadetower.org/images/avalon-power.png
Not all that original, but a start! :)
--
jaaron <http://jadetower.org>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@avalon.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@avalon.apache.org
Re: Avalon Namespace (was: Re: new phoenixjms)
Posted by Peter Donald <pe...@realityforge.org>.
On Thu, 26 Jun 2003 12:00 pm, J Aaron Farr wrote:
> Reason I'm cc'ing this to the dev list is because it addresses the larger
> question of Avalon based projects. If I understand correctly, the
> following are all not legit unless given permission:
>
> - Projects derived from Avalon with a name that includes Avalon,
> Phoenix,... ie- PhoenixJMS, AvalonJMX, AWF (Avalon Web Framework),
> MyAvalon, etc.
those are all problems unless permission was granted.
> - Projects which state in their documentation things like:
> "Based on Apache Avalon"
> "Powered by Apache Avalon"
> "Avalon compatible"
> "Works with/in Apache Avalon Containers"
Those are not compatible.
> - Use of any Apache or Avalon logos, icons, etc.
Apache logos have a policy document describing usage but Avalon logos policy
is decided by Avalon PMC.
> I'm not sure about the package structuring. Is using
> org.apache.avalon.jms.* an "illegal" use of the package namespace? Is it
> something one needs permission for?
Nope but it may not exactly be a smart idea ;) FWIW Ceki of Log4j has just
asked on the licensing list about 7 hours ago. No response yet but if it is
negative I will drop a note here.
--
Cheers,
Peter Donald
*-----------------------------------------------------------*
"I like nonsense, it wakes up the brain cells. Fantasy is a
necessary ingredient in living, it's a way of looking at life
through the wrong end of a telescope and that enables you to
laugh at life's realities." -Dr. Seuss
*-----------------------------------------------------------*
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@avalon.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@avalon.apache.org
RE: Avalon Namespace (was: Re: new phoenixjms)
Posted by Leo Sutic <le...@inspireinfrastructure.com>.
> From: J Aaron Farr [mailto:jaaronfarr@yahoo.com]
>
> 1. AFAIK it's a violation of the Avalon Phoenix license:
>
> The names "Avalon", "Phoenix" and "Apache Software Foundation"
> must not be used to endorse or promote products
> derived from this
> software without prior written permission. For written
> permission, please
> contact apache@apache.org.
>
> Just wondering if permission was granted.
> (I'm a stickler for licenses -- sorry).
I think Microsoft has a policy that you can call anything
"X for Windows", but nothing "Windows X". Thus, "JMS for
Phoenix" would be OK, but "Phoenix JMS" not. Or maybe
the other way around.
Just a thought.
/LS
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@avalon.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@avalon.apache.org
RE: Avalon Namespace (was: Re: new phoenixjms)
Posted by Leo Sutic <le...@inspireinfrastructure.com>.
> From: Berin Loritsch [mailto:bloritsch@apache.org]
>
> The big thing is that you can't make it look like a project
> is an official Apache or official Avalon project with the
> same management board, etc. As long as you don't do that,
> all is well.
And you can also not make it sound like Apache or Avalon
recommends your project or in any other way endorses it
unless they really do.
Basically, you may not use the association "Apache is good"
-> "Project X is good" to market your product unless the
ASF explicitly allows you to do so.
/LS
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@avalon.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@avalon.apache.org
Re: Avalon Namespace (was: Re: new phoenixjms)
Posted by Berin Loritsch <bl...@apache.org>.
Leo Sutic wrote:
> Aaron,
>
> I think the problem is "promotion":
>
>
>>From: J Aaron Farr [mailto:jaaronfarr@yahoo.com]
>>
>>- Projects derived from Avalon with a name that includes
>> Avalon, Phoenix,... ie- PhoenixJMS, AvalonJMX, AWF (Avalon
>> Web Framework), MyAvalon, etc.
>
>
> Yes, this is a problem, since it implies that the product
> is endorsed by Apache, Avalon or some organization that
> hasn't endorsed it.
>
>
>>- Projects which state in their documentation things like:
>> "Based on Apache Avalon"
>> "Powered by Apache Avalon"
>> "Avalon compatible"
>> "Works with/in Apache Avalon Containers"
>
>
> Depends on how that is stated, I think. If I make it part
> of the sales pitch it *can* be a problem, if formulated so
> that it implies endorsement. But I can't see how putting in
> a "project X is based on Apache Avalon, therefore you
> should look to http://avalon.apache.org/... for documentation
> on the lifestyle interfaces". "Our product is officially
> compliant with the Apache Server Framework Architecture
> (Avalon)" can be a problem, though, since it implies
> endorsement.
To tone down the message a bit let put out some practical things
here. Advertising that a project uses Apache Avalon or is based on
Apache Avalon is A Good Thing(TM). It's also required (i.e. IBM
has to put a disclaimer that the web server in WebSphere is Apache
HTTPD).
We are not an official standards board, and as we have found out,
our standards need a little bit of work to ensure that a component
will work in the largest set of containers. Any of the labels you
listed (i.e. "Based on...") are completely ok--in fact I would
encourage their use. Many folks are using Avalon "on the down low"
or basically it is used in come corporate environments that haven't
officially adopted standards for using open source technologies,
so the developer can't exactly trumpet the use of any open source
project (much less Avalon). Any advertisement is cool.
The big thing is that you can't make it look like a project is an
official Apache or official Avalon project with the same management
board, etc. As long as you don't do that, all is well.
--
"They that give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety
deserve neither liberty nor safety."
- Benjamin Franklin
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@avalon.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@avalon.apache.org
RE: Avalon Namespace (was: Re: new phoenixjms)
Posted by Leo Sutic <le...@inspireinfrastructure.com>.
Aaron,
I think the problem is "promotion":
> From: J Aaron Farr [mailto:jaaronfarr@yahoo.com]
>
> - Projects derived from Avalon with a name that includes
> Avalon, Phoenix,... ie- PhoenixJMS, AvalonJMX, AWF (Avalon
> Web Framework), MyAvalon, etc.
Yes, this is a problem, since it implies that the product
is endorsed by Apache, Avalon or some organization that
hasn't endorsed it.
> - Projects which state in their documentation things like:
> "Based on Apache Avalon"
> "Powered by Apache Avalon"
> "Avalon compatible"
> "Works with/in Apache Avalon Containers"
Depends on how that is stated, I think. If I make it part
of the sales pitch it *can* be a problem, if formulated so
that it implies endorsement. But I can't see how putting in
a "project X is based on Apache Avalon, therefore you
should look to http://avalon.apache.org/... for documentation
on the lifestyle interfaces". "Our product is officially
compliant with the Apache Server Framework Architecture
(Avalon)" can be a problem, though, since it implies
endorsement.
> other than the standard:
> "This product includes software developed by the
> Apache Software Foundation (http://www.apache.org/)."
>
> - Use of any Apache or Avalon logos, icons, etc.
I think that's trademark law.
> Any direction from the developers?
Basically: Don't try to get a free ride on the "image"
of Avalon or Apache. Apache has built up a lot of
respect for itself in the world and no - you can't
have any of it. You have to build it yourself.
/LS
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@avalon.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@avalon.apache.org
Avalon Namespace (was: Re: new phoenixjms)
Posted by J Aaron Farr <ja...@yahoo.com>.
On Wed, 2003-06-25 at 18:36, Alexis Agahi wrote:
> paul hammant is also very interested in having a phoenixjms upgraded & working.
Okay, I'll start working out a way to update cvs with the changes I
made. I'll probably send a specific email on that to you and paul
later.
I wanted to ask about the name of the project though. PhoenixJMS is a
cool name, but I think there are two problems:
1. AFAIK it's a violation of the Avalon Phoenix license:
The names "Avalon", "Phoenix" and "Apache Software Foundation"
must not be used to endorse or promote products derived from this
software without prior written permission. For written permission, please
contact apache@apache.org.
Just wondering if permission was granted.
(I'm a stickler for licenses -- sorry).
2. It doesn't run under just phoenix any more. :)
And one other thing:
PhoenixJMS uses the package structure: org.apache.avalon.jms.*
Is that a problem? (also perhaps in terms of licenses?)
Reason I'm cc'ing this to the dev list is because it addresses the larger
question of Avalon based projects. If I understand correctly, the following
are all not legit unless given permission:
- Projects derived from Avalon with a name that includes Avalon, Phoenix,...
ie- PhoenixJMS, AvalonJMX, AWF (Avalon Web Framework), MyAvalon, etc.
- Projects which state in their documentation things like:
"Based on Apache Avalon"
"Powered by Apache Avalon"
"Avalon compatible"
"Works with/in Apache Avalon Containers"
other than the standard:
"This product includes software developed by the
Apache Software Foundation (http://www.apache.org/)."
- Use of any Apache or Avalon logos, icons, etc.
I'm not sure about the package structuring. Is using org.apache.avalon.jms.*
an "illegal" use of the package namespace? Is it something one needs
permission for?
I'm asking this not just because of PhoenixJMS, but because all Avalon based
apps/components are encouraged to find homes of their own outside of Avalon
that way Avalon can focus on just the core framework and containers. How
can these applications or generic Avalon components reference their Avalon
roots, or can they? Is there the possibility of creating a "Powered By Avalon"
logo? If so, what would be the 'rules' around using it? What about the
tutorial I've been putting together? I've been trying to set it up with the
Avalon site look and feel so that it could be easily submitted to the project
one day. Until then (if that day comes), should I remove all Avalon logos?
Any direction from the developers? PMC?
Thanks!
--
jaaron <http://jadetower.org>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@avalon.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@avalon.apache.org
Re: new phoenixjms
Posted by Alexis Agahi <al...@users.sf.net>.
On Wednesday 25 June 2003 06:43, J Aaron Farr wrote:
> Hello.
>
> Okay, it's not an official phoenixjms upgrade, since I haven't had
> anyone from that team respond to my emails (it's been a little while
> too), so technically this is a fork though I'd love to contribute it
> back to the project.
sorry they get lost in my mailbox.
honnestly I'm not currently focused on phoenixjms
> Anyway, it's updated for openjms 0.7.5 and it runs in both phoenix and
> merlin (though it's not quite as elegant as I would like).
>
> You can find more info at:
> http://jadetower.org/vqwiki/jsp/Wiki?AvalonJMS
if you want to gain complete access to the sf project and become administrator
I'll be happy to grant you anything :)
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@avalon.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@avalon.apache.org