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Posted to dev@openoffice.apache.org by Andrea Pescetti <pe...@apache.org> on 2012/08/07 23:44:15 UTC
Re: Registration
On 23/07/2012 Rob Weir wrote:
> On Mon, Jul 23, 2012 at 12:53 PM, Andrea Pescetti wrote:
>> So I'd propose to ask Infra to redirect the whole domains
>> https://registration2.services.openoffice.org/
>> http://registration2.services.openoffice.org/
>> http://survey.services.openoffice.org/
>> to something that explains that OpenOffice.org is now at Apache.
> So it might make sense to send them to the download page? Or a
> custom/new page that says:
> a) Thank you for installing OOo
> b) OOo is now at Apache
> c) The latest version is AOO 3.4. You can get it here (give download link)
> d) Useful extensions and templates are here (give links)
> e) If you want to stay informed about new releases and other
> announcements, here is our announcement link, Twitter account, etc.
I created a page with this content at
http://www.openoffice.org/legacy/thankyou.html
If we have lazy consensus (i.e., no objections in 72 hours or so) on
this, I'll then proceed and ask Infra to redirect all legacy links to
this page. This includes the whole subdomains above and, if someone
manages to find it, the URL OpenOffice opens when one uninstalls version
3.3.
Regards,
Andrea.
Re: Registration
Posted by Rob Weir <ro...@apache.org>.
On Tue, Aug 7, 2012 at 5:44 PM, Andrea Pescetti <pe...@apache.org> wrote:
> On 23/07/2012 Rob Weir wrote:
>>
>> On Mon, Jul 23, 2012 at 12:53 PM, Andrea Pescetti wrote:
>>>
>>> So I'd propose to ask Infra to redirect the whole domains
>>> https://registration2.services.openoffice.org/
>>> http://registration2.services.openoffice.org/
>>> http://survey.services.openoffice.org/
>>> to something that explains that OpenOffice.org is now at Apache.
>>
>> So it might make sense to send them to the download page? Or a
>>
>> custom/new page that says:
>> a) Thank you for installing OOo
>> b) OOo is now at Apache
>> c) The latest version is AOO 3.4. You can get it here (give download
>> link)
>> d) Useful extensions and templates are here (give links)
>> e) If you want to stay informed about new releases and other
>> announcements, here is our announcement link, Twitter account, etc.
>
>
> I created a page with this content at
> http://www.openoffice.org/legacy/thankyou.html
>
+1
This is nice.
-Rob
> If we have lazy consensus (i.e., no objections in 72 hours or so) on this,
> I'll then proceed and ask Infra to redirect all legacy links to this page.
> This includes the whole subdomains above and, if someone manages to find it,
> the URL OpenOffice opens when one uninstalls version 3.3.
>
> Regards,
> Andrea.
Re: Registration
Posted by "Marcus (OOo)" <ma...@wtnet.de>.
Am 08/07/2012 11:44 PM, schrieb Andrea Pescetti:
> On 23/07/2012 Rob Weir wrote:
>> On Mon, Jul 23, 2012 at 12:53 PM, Andrea Pescetti wrote:
>>> So I'd propose to ask Infra to redirect the whole domains
>>> https://registration2.services.openoffice.org/
>>> http://registration2.services.openoffice.org/
>>> http://survey.services.openoffice.org/
>>> to something that explains that OpenOffice.org is now at Apache.
>> So it might make sense to send them to the download page? Or a
>> custom/new page that says:
>> a) Thank you for installing OOo
>> b) OOo is now at Apache
>> c) The latest version is AOO 3.4. You can get it here (give download
>> link)
>> d) Useful extensions and templates are here (give links)
>> e) If you want to stay informed about new releases and other
>> announcements, here is our announcement link, Twitter account, etc.
>
> I created a page with this content at
> http://www.openoffice.org/legacy/thankyou.html
>
> If we have lazy consensus (i.e., no objections in 72 hours or so) on
> this, I'll then proceed and ask Infra to redirect all legacy links to
> this page. This includes the whole subdomains above and, if someone
> manages to find it, the URL OpenOffice opens when one uninstalls version
> 3.3.
Great idea. I think there are a lot of URLs that could be routed to this
new webpage.
Marcus
Re: Registration
Posted by Andrea Pescetti <pe...@apache.org>.
On 15/08/2012 Dave Fisher wrote:
> On Aug 14, 2012, at 8:09 PM, Andrea Pescetti wrote:
>> Ready at
>> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/INFRA-5144
>
> I'll look into this one tomorrow. There will be two parts.
> (1) DNS redirect to www.openoffice.org
> (2) httpd.conf rewrite to redirect to thankyou.html.
A further problem that Infra brought up is that the address to be
redirected is https://registration2.services.openoffice.org and that to
redirect HTTPS we need to retrieve (or buy) a matching SSL certificate.
Does anyone have access to the SSL certificate originally used for
registration2.services.openoffice.org ? Read the issue (link above) for
more details.
Regards,
Andrea.
Re: Registration
Posted by Dave Fisher <da...@comcast.net>.
On Aug 14, 2012, at 8:09 PM, Andrea Pescetti wrote:
> On 09/08/2012 Dave Fisher wrote:
>> On Aug 7, 2012, at 2:44 PM, Andrea Pescetti wrote:
>>> I created a page with this content at
>>> http://www.openoffice.org/legacy/thankyou.html If we have lazy
>>> consensus (i.e., no objections in 72 hours or so) on this, I'll
>>> then proceed and ask Infra to redirect all legacy links to this
>>> page. This includes the whole subdomains above and, if someone
>>> manages to find it, the URL OpenOffice opens when one uninstalls
>>> version 3.3.
>>
>> Let me know when the JIRA is ready.
>
> Ready at
> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/INFRA-5144
I'll look into this one tomorrow. There will be two parts.
(1) DNS redirect to www.openoffice.org
(2) httpd.conf rewrite to redirect to thankyou.html.
Regards,
Dave
>
> Regards,
> Andrea.
Re: Registration
Posted by Andrea Pescetti <pe...@apache.org>.
On 09/08/2012 Dave Fisher wrote:
> On Aug 7, 2012, at 2:44 PM, Andrea Pescetti wrote:
>> I created a page with this content at
>> http://www.openoffice.org/legacy/thankyou.html If we have lazy
>> consensus (i.e., no objections in 72 hours or so) on this, I'll
>> then proceed and ask Infra to redirect all legacy links to this
>> page. This includes the whole subdomains above and, if someone
>> manages to find it, the URL OpenOffice opens when one uninstalls
>> version 3.3.
>
> Let me know when the JIRA is ready.
Ready at
https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/INFRA-5144
Regards,
Andrea.
Re: Registration
Posted by Dave Fisher <da...@comcast.net>.
On Aug 7, 2012, at 2:44 PM, Andrea Pescetti wrote:
> On 23/07/2012 Rob Weir wrote:
>> On Mon, Jul 23, 2012 at 12:53 PM, Andrea Pescetti wrote:
>>> So I'd propose to ask Infra to redirect the whole domains
>>> https://registration2.services.openoffice.org/
>>> http://registration2.services.openoffice.org/
>>> http://survey.services.openoffice.org/
>>> to something that explains that OpenOffice.org is now at Apache.
>> So it might make sense to send them to the download page? Or a
>> custom/new page that says:
>> a) Thank you for installing OOo
>> b) OOo is now at Apache
>> c) The latest version is AOO 3.4. You can get it here (give download link)
>> d) Useful extensions and templates are here (give links)
>> e) If you want to stay informed about new releases and other
>> announcements, here is our announcement link, Twitter account, etc.
>
> I created a page with this content at
> http://www.openoffice.org/legacy/thankyou.html
>
> If we have lazy consensus (i.e., no objections in 72 hours or so) on this, I'll then proceed and ask Infra to redirect all legacy links to this page. This includes the whole subdomains above and, if someone manages to find it, the URL OpenOffice opens when one uninstalls version 3.3.
Let me know when the JIRA is ready.
There will be two parts.
(1) DNS - Change these subdomain IPs to be ooo-site.apache.org
(2) httpd.conf - permanently redirect anything on the list of domains to this new page.
I'll just need the domains and no the http / https.
I just got Infra to do the patches to DNS for forum.oo.o and wiki.oo.o (for imacat: more work to do with the Apache Traffic Server config on the MWiki.) I think these will be quick.
Regards,
Dave
>
> Regards,
> Andrea.
Re: update service for not released languages [was: Re: Registration]
Posted by Oliver-Rainer Wittmann <or...@googlemail.com>.
Hi,
On 27.02.2013 21:44, Rob Weir wrote:
> On Wed, Feb 27, 2013 at 7:54 AM, Rob Weir <ro...@apache.org> wrote:
>>
>> [snip]
>>
>> And I'll work on a landing page.
>>
>
> Hi Oliver -- here is a draft of what the landing page:
> http://www.openoffice.org/projects/untranslated.html
>
Look good to me --> +1
Best regards, Oliver.
Re: update service for not released languages [was: Re: Registration]
Posted by Rob Weir <ro...@apache.org>.
On Wed, Feb 27, 2013 at 7:54 AM, Rob Weir <ro...@apache.org> wrote:
> On Wed, Feb 27, 2013 at 5:17 AM, Oliver-Rainer Wittmann
> <or...@googlemail.com> wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>>
>> On 26.02.2013 22:48, Rob Weir wrote:
>>>
>>> On Tue, Aug 14, 2012 at 3:35 AM, Oliver-Rainer Wittmann
>>> <or...@googlemail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Hi,
>>>>
>>>> On 09.08.2012 22:23, Andrea Pescetti wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Oliver-Rainer Wittmann wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 07.08.2012 23:44, Andrea Pescetti wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I created a page with this content at
>>>>>>> http://www.openoffice.org/legacy/thankyou.html
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> May be we can use it also for our update service. It could be the
>>>>>> landing page for users of legacy OOo versions for whose language we do
>>>>>> not have a released package.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> For those cases it would be better to wait until 3.4.1 is out, then
>>>>> provide, for
>>>>> unsupported languages, some "beta/RC" builds or langpacks based on the
>>>>> same SVN
>>>>> revision and the SDF files we have now and create a page saying
>>>>> something
>>>>> like
>>>>> "your language is not officially supported, but you can help us [links
>>>>> to
>>>>> unofficial builds and instructions]". But this is just an idea that we
>>>>> can
>>>>> discuss after 3.4.1 is released.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Yes, I would definitely wait until AOO 3.4.1 is out.
>>>>
>>>> Having unofficial language packs for our unsupported languages would be a
>>>> good idea, esp. to attract some new volunteers for translations.
>>>>
>>>> I will keep your's and Rob's idea in mind for my planned future work on
>>>> the
>>>> update service.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Now that the 3.4.1 language respin is released I'd like to bring back
>>> to mind this earlier discussion. There are (we assume) many users
>>> out there still running OOo 3.3.0 or earlier. Even months after 3.4.0
>>> and 3.4.1 were released we get a steady stream of upgrades from OOo
>>> 3.3.0, 3.2.1 and 3.2.0.
>>>
>>> But we're only advertising upgrades for those cases where we have a
>>> translation for that language. I wonder if we could use the upgrade
>>> notification message as a form of recruitment for translation help in
>>> AOO 4.0?
>>>
>>
>> Yes, the update service could be used for it.
>> For each language we are able to provide its own web site URL. Thus, we
>> could use a landing page URL for languages for which we have no release.
>>
>
> Since these are languages where we don't have sufficient translation
> support, I think we would have a single webpage in English.
>
> Or maybe we also cover other common 2nd languages like French, Spanish
> and Russian, and put them on the same page?
>
> In any case, I'd assume a single destination URL for this notification.
>
>
>> I will have a look, if the message shown in the update service dialog in the
>> running OOo 3.2, 3.2.1 and 3.3 instance can already contain a corresponding
>> short message that the new version is not available in the requested
>> language.
>>
>
> And I'll work on a landing page.
>
Hi Oliver -- here is a draft of what the landing page:
http://www.openoffice.org/projects/untranslated.html
-Rob
>>
>>> One idea would be this:
>>>
>>> 1) Create a landing page on the website that makes the following points:
>>>
>>> a) You are running an older version of OpenOffice. A more recent one
>>> is available, AOO 3.4.1, available in the following languages...
>>>
>>> b) We're working on a new 4.0 release with many exciting feature
>>> (point to blog post). We'd love to support your language, but need
>>> help with translation. If you want to help, or know someone who might
>>> be interested, here is where to find more information on how to get
>>> involved...
>>>
>>> c) Sign up here on the announcement mailing list (or Facebook, or
>>> Twitter or Google+) to be notified when AOO 4.0 is released
>>>
>>> 2) Then enable update notifications for all languages not included in
>>> AOO 3.4.1, and point the user to the new landing page.
>>>
>>> 3) After a week revert the update configuration file on our server to
>>> the earlier state, so users do not get this message repeatedly. (By
>>> default it should check only once a week).
>>>
>>> I think something like the above would be great to do in the near
>>> term, since it would give enough time for new volunteers to complete
>>> translations in time for AOO 4.0.
>>>
>>
>> +1 from my side.
>> ad 3): may extend to two weeks
>>
>
> OK.
>
> Another benefit of this is we'll get statistics, via Google Analytics,
> on the distribution of languages among those who have not upgraded to
> AOO 3.4.x. That can help us prioritize for AOO 4.0.
>
> Regards,
>
> -Rob
>
>> Best regards, Oliver.
Re: update service for not released languages [was: Re: Registration]
Posted by Rob Weir <ro...@apache.org>.
On Wed, Feb 27, 2013 at 5:17 AM, Oliver-Rainer Wittmann
<or...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> Hi,
>
>
> On 26.02.2013 22:48, Rob Weir wrote:
>>
>> On Tue, Aug 14, 2012 at 3:35 AM, Oliver-Rainer Wittmann
>> <or...@googlemail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> On 09.08.2012 22:23, Andrea Pescetti wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Oliver-Rainer Wittmann wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 07.08.2012 23:44, Andrea Pescetti wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I created a page with this content at
>>>>>> http://www.openoffice.org/legacy/thankyou.html
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> May be we can use it also for our update service. It could be the
>>>>> landing page for users of legacy OOo versions for whose language we do
>>>>> not have a released package.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> For those cases it would be better to wait until 3.4.1 is out, then
>>>> provide, for
>>>> unsupported languages, some "beta/RC" builds or langpacks based on the
>>>> same SVN
>>>> revision and the SDF files we have now and create a page saying
>>>> something
>>>> like
>>>> "your language is not officially supported, but you can help us [links
>>>> to
>>>> unofficial builds and instructions]". But this is just an idea that we
>>>> can
>>>> discuss after 3.4.1 is released.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Yes, I would definitely wait until AOO 3.4.1 is out.
>>>
>>> Having unofficial language packs for our unsupported languages would be a
>>> good idea, esp. to attract some new volunteers for translations.
>>>
>>> I will keep your's and Rob's idea in mind for my planned future work on
>>> the
>>> update service.
>>>
>>
>> Now that the 3.4.1 language respin is released I'd like to bring back
>> to mind this earlier discussion. There are (we assume) many users
>> out there still running OOo 3.3.0 or earlier. Even months after 3.4.0
>> and 3.4.1 were released we get a steady stream of upgrades from OOo
>> 3.3.0, 3.2.1 and 3.2.0.
>>
>> But we're only advertising upgrades for those cases where we have a
>> translation for that language. I wonder if we could use the upgrade
>> notification message as a form of recruitment for translation help in
>> AOO 4.0?
>>
>
> Yes, the update service could be used for it.
> For each language we are able to provide its own web site URL. Thus, we
> could use a landing page URL for languages for which we have no release.
>
Since these are languages where we don't have sufficient translation
support, I think we would have a single webpage in English.
Or maybe we also cover other common 2nd languages like French, Spanish
and Russian, and put them on the same page?
In any case, I'd assume a single destination URL for this notification.
> I will have a look, if the message shown in the update service dialog in the
> running OOo 3.2, 3.2.1 and 3.3 instance can already contain a corresponding
> short message that the new version is not available in the requested
> language.
>
And I'll work on a landing page.
>
>> One idea would be this:
>>
>> 1) Create a landing page on the website that makes the following points:
>>
>> a) You are running an older version of OpenOffice. A more recent one
>> is available, AOO 3.4.1, available in the following languages...
>>
>> b) We're working on a new 4.0 release with many exciting feature
>> (point to blog post). We'd love to support your language, but need
>> help with translation. If you want to help, or know someone who might
>> be interested, here is where to find more information on how to get
>> involved...
>>
>> c) Sign up here on the announcement mailing list (or Facebook, or
>> Twitter or Google+) to be notified when AOO 4.0 is released
>>
>> 2) Then enable update notifications for all languages not included in
>> AOO 3.4.1, and point the user to the new landing page.
>>
>> 3) After a week revert the update configuration file on our server to
>> the earlier state, so users do not get this message repeatedly. (By
>> default it should check only once a week).
>>
>> I think something like the above would be great to do in the near
>> term, since it would give enough time for new volunteers to complete
>> translations in time for AOO 4.0.
>>
>
> +1 from my side.
> ad 3): may extend to two weeks
>
OK.
Another benefit of this is we'll get statistics, via Google Analytics,
on the distribution of languages among those who have not upgraded to
AOO 3.4.x. That can help us prioritize for AOO 4.0.
Regards,
-Rob
> Best regards, Oliver.
Re: update service for not released languages [was: Re: Registration]
Posted by Oliver-Rainer Wittmann <or...@googlemail.com>.
Hi,
On 28.02.2013 13:21, Rob Weir wrote:
>>>>
>>>> [snip]
>>>>
>>>
>>> I will have a look, if the message shown in the update service dialog in
>>> the running OOo 3.2, 3.2.1 and 3.3 instance can already contain a
>>> corresponding short message that the new version is not available in the
>>> requested language.
>>>
>>
>> I had a look and an additional text is possible - see attached screenshot.
>> The additional text should be translated into the corresponding language.
>>
>
> Your image attachment was stripped from the list.
>
Damn.
I have attach it to issue 119323 -
https://issues.apache.org/ooo/show_bug.cgi?id=119323
Best regards, Oliver.
Re: update service for not released languages [was: Re: Registration]
Posted by Rob Weir <ro...@apache.org>.
On Thu, Feb 28, 2013 at 4:17 AM, Oliver-Rainer Wittmann
<or...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> Hi,
>
>
> On 27.02.2013 11:17, Oliver-Rainer Wittmann wrote:
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> On 26.02.2013 22:48, Rob Weir wrote:
>>>
>>> On Tue, Aug 14, 2012 at 3:35 AM, Oliver-Rainer Wittmann
>>> <or...@googlemail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Hi,
>>>>
>>>> On 09.08.2012 22:23, Andrea Pescetti wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Oliver-Rainer Wittmann wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 07.08.2012 23:44, Andrea Pescetti wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I created a page with this content at
>>>>>>> http://www.openoffice.org/legacy/thankyou.html
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> May be we can use it also for our update service. It could be the
>>>>>> landing page for users of legacy OOo versions for whose language we do
>>>>>> not have a released package.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> For those cases it would be better to wait until 3.4.1 is out, then
>>>>> provide, for
>>>>> unsupported languages, some "beta/RC" builds or langpacks based on the
>>>>> same SVN
>>>>> revision and the SDF files we have now and create a page saying
>>>>> something
>>>>> like
>>>>> "your language is not officially supported, but you can help us
>>>>> [links to
>>>>> unofficial builds and instructions]". But this is just an idea that
>>>>> we can
>>>>> discuss after 3.4.1 is released.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Yes, I would definitely wait until AOO 3.4.1 is out.
>>>>
>>>> Having unofficial language packs for our unsupported languages would
>>>> be a
>>>> good idea, esp. to attract some new volunteers for translations.
>>>>
>>>> I will keep your's and Rob's idea in mind for my planned future work
>>>> on the
>>>> update service.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Now that the 3.4.1 language respin is released I'd like to bring back
>>> to mind this earlier discussion. There are (we assume) many users
>>> out there still running OOo 3.3.0 or earlier. Even months after 3.4.0
>>> and 3.4.1 were released we get a steady stream of upgrades from OOo
>>> 3.3.0, 3.2.1 and 3.2.0.
>>>
>>> But we're only advertising upgrades for those cases where we have a
>>> translation for that language. I wonder if we could use the upgrade
>>> notification message as a form of recruitment for translation help in
>>> AOO 4.0?
>>>
>>
>> Yes, the update service could be used for it.
>> For each language we are able to provide its own web site URL. Thus, we
>> could use a landing page URL for languages for which we have no release.
>>
>> I will have a look, if the message shown in the update service dialog in
>> the running OOo 3.2, 3.2.1 and 3.3 instance can already contain a
>> corresponding short message that the new version is not available in the
>> requested language.
>>
>
> I had a look and an additional text is possible - see attached screenshot.
> The additional text should be translated into the corresponding language.
>
Your image attachment was stripped from the list.
-Rob
> Best regards, Oliver.
>
>
>>> One idea would be this:
>>>
>>> 1) Create a landing page on the website that makes the following points:
>>>
>>> a) You are running an older version of OpenOffice. A more recent one
>>> is available, AOO 3.4.1, available in the following languages...
>>>
>>> b) We're working on a new 4.0 release with many exciting feature
>>> (point to blog post). We'd love to support your language, but need
>>> help with translation. If you want to help, or know someone who might
>>> be interested, here is where to find more information on how to get
>>> involved...
>>>
>>> c) Sign up here on the announcement mailing list (or Facebook, or
>>> Twitter or Google+) to be notified when AOO 4.0 is released
>>>
>>> 2) Then enable update notifications for all languages not included in
>>> AOO 3.4.1, and point the user to the new landing page.
>>>
>>> 3) After a week revert the update configuration file on our server to
>>> the earlier state, so users do not get this message repeatedly. (By
>>> default it should check only once a week).
>>>
>>> I think something like the above would be great to do in the near
>>> term, since it would give enough time for new volunteers to complete
>>> translations in time for AOO 4.0.
>>>
>>
>> +1 from my side.
>> ad 3): may extend to two weeks
>>
>> Best regards, Oliver.
Re: update service for not released languages [was: Re: Registration]
Posted by Rob Weir <ro...@apache.org>.
On Fri, Mar 1, 2013 at 3:00 PM, Andrea Pescetti <pe...@apache.org> wrote:
> Rob Weir wrote:
>>
>> Are we expecting any change to Pootle in the near term? If so, what and
>> when?
>
>
> The changes look trivial but are not so trivial since Pootle accounts are
> now linked to committer accounts. Currently anonymous users can suggest
> translations, and users cannot register (they have to be committers).
>
> We need, for many good reasons (traceability, accountability...) that
> anonymous suggestions are disabled and, at the same time, account creation
> for non-committers is possible.
>
> I was concerned about losing content but apparently Jan reassured here and
> on the l10n list that we are in a position to use/import strings from Pootle
> at this stage. So it is a configuration/policy issue only.
>
>
>> I would not recommend waiting too long. We've shown that offline
>> translation is quite reasonable.. Most of the 3.4.1 languages were
>> done that way.
>
>
> It worked, but the current process is really demanding on the motivation (or
> technical skills) of volunteers. Compare an answer like "Welcome! Next week
> we will send you a link to a .tar.bz2 archive containing 240 PO files that
> you should open individually, translate and send us back" to "Welcome!
> Please register at https://translate.apache.org/ and start translating now".
>
> Then, if you ask me, I would probably prefer the 240 PO files, but the
> majority of new volunteers will be perfectly at home with Pootle. So I
> believe we should fix it before any other mass-recruitment actions.
>
OK. But then maybe let's agree on a date, and if the Pootle service
is not able to handle non-committer users by then, then we go forward
with backup plan for using POEdit and offline translation. It is
better than nothing, and we know it works. But I don't want to see us
in a situation when it is May and we're still waiting for Pootle.
-Rob
> Regards,
> Andrea.
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Re: update service for not released languages [was: Re: Registration]
Posted by Rob Weir <ro...@apache.org>.
On Sat, Mar 9, 2013 at 5:28 PM, janI <ja...@apache.org> wrote:
> On 9 March 2013 21:57, Andrea Pescetti <pe...@apache.org> wrote:
>
>> janI wrote:
>>
>>> that is perfectly within the ruleset.
>>>
>>
>> Perfect.
>>
>>
>> I thought the reason for local users was
>>> - get their work named or
>>> - allow them to do review (not possible on suggestions) or
>>> - save committers work
>>> as you suggest I cannot see the difference to using anonymous as we have
>>> it
>>> today ? What did I miss ?
>>>
>>
>> Well, the first item is very important. The step from anonymous
>> contributors to authenticated contributors is a big one: it enables
>> traceability, accountability and accommodates licensing concerns; it allows
>> to evaluate contributions from individual authors. The other improvements
>> are very good, but I see the first one as the key.
>
>
> making support for non-ldap users is no trivial task (just think of spam
>> protection) so clearly this effort should counter weighted of other
>> advantages.
>>
>
> Manual creation/activation of accounts would be fine too: it would still be
>> a significant improvement over what we are doing now.
>
>
> The reference to "accommodates licensing concerns" actually calls for
> another change in the setup, somewhere in the login screen, the user must
> be made aware of or see the ASF license and not standard. I hope we can
> configure it in 2.5.
>
We currently accept patches from non-committers to the mailing list
and to Bugzilla without any special license display. But having the
contributor's contact information helps since if questions arise we
can follow up with them.
Anything short of an ICLA requires review by a committer to make it
into the product. The reviewer should raise any technical concerns,
and licensing ones as well. For example, if we suddenly get a
substantial contribution, code or translation, from someone never
associated with the project before, then the reviewer might clarify
the situation with the contributor. That's why the current setup is
non-optimal -- we don't know who the contributor is.
Regards,
-Rob
> I do not share the opinion that we need to rush on this subject, most
> translations are done offline so if we as an example spent the same time
> improving download/upload it would be much more useful for translators (and
> volunteers who prepare .po files).
>
> I have promised infra to do the upgrade and regular maintenance, which I
> will do (and am doing), but in view of the discussion "support of mwiki
> depending on my person", I do not volunteer to manage/enable account
> creation and thereby create a real dependency (or the feeling of one).
>
> pootle (translate-vm) is a supported infra "product" available to all
> projects, so making a Jira os the correct way to get such changes (with
> manual account creation it is in the installed version via use of the
> backend authentication script). With a Jira we are sure that infra supports
> and maintains the change (including manual creation if needed).
>
> rgds
> jan I.
>
>
>>
>> Regards,
>> Andrea.
>>
>> ------------------------------**------------------------------**---------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@openoffice.**apache.org<de...@openoffice.apache.org>
>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@openoffice.apache.org
>>
>>
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Re: update service for not released languages [was: Re: Registration]
Posted by janI <ja...@apache.org>.
On 9 March 2013 21:57, Andrea Pescetti <pe...@apache.org> wrote:
> janI wrote:
>
>> that is perfectly within the ruleset.
>>
>
> Perfect.
>
>
> I thought the reason for local users was
>> - get their work named or
>> - allow them to do review (not possible on suggestions) or
>> - save committers work
>> as you suggest I cannot see the difference to using anonymous as we have
>> it
>> today ? What did I miss ?
>>
>
> Well, the first item is very important. The step from anonymous
> contributors to authenticated contributors is a big one: it enables
> traceability, accountability and accommodates licensing concerns; it allows
> to evaluate contributions from individual authors. The other improvements
> are very good, but I see the first one as the key.
making support for non-ldap users is no trivial task (just think of spam
> protection) so clearly this effort should counter weighted of other
> advantages.
>
Manual creation/activation of accounts would be fine too: it would still be
> a significant improvement over what we are doing now.
The reference to "accommodates licensing concerns" actually calls for
another change in the setup, somewhere in the login screen, the user must
be made aware of or see the ASF license and not standard. I hope we can
configure it in 2.5.
I do not share the opinion that we need to rush on this subject, most
translations are done offline so if we as an example spent the same time
improving download/upload it would be much more useful for translators (and
volunteers who prepare .po files).
I have promised infra to do the upgrade and regular maintenance, which I
will do (and am doing), but in view of the discussion "support of mwiki
depending on my person", I do not volunteer to manage/enable account
creation and thereby create a real dependency (or the feeling of one).
pootle (translate-vm) is a supported infra "product" available to all
projects, so making a Jira os the correct way to get such changes (with
manual account creation it is in the installed version via use of the
backend authentication script). With a Jira we are sure that infra supports
and maintains the change (including manual creation if needed).
rgds
jan I.
>
> Regards,
> Andrea.
>
> ------------------------------**------------------------------**---------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@openoffice.**apache.org<de...@openoffice.apache.org>
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@openoffice.apache.org
>
>
Re: update service for not released languages [was: Re: Registration]
Posted by Andrea Pescetti <pe...@apache.org>.
janI wrote:
> that is perfectly within the ruleset.
Perfect.
> I thought the reason for local users was
> - get their work named or
> - allow them to do review (not possible on suggestions) or
> - save committers work
> as you suggest I cannot see the difference to using anonymous as we have it
> today ? What did I miss ?
Well, the first item is very important. The step from anonymous
contributors to authenticated contributors is a big one: it enables
traceability, accountability and accommodates licensing concerns; it
allows to evaluate contributions from individual authors. The other
improvements are very good, but I see the first one as the key.
> making support for non-ldap users is no trivial task (just think of spam
> protection) so clearly this effort should counter weighted of other
> advantages.
Manual creation/activation of accounts would be fine too: it would still
be a significant improvement over what we are doing now.
Regards,
Andrea.
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Re: update service for not released languages [was: Re: Registration]
Posted by Dave Fisher <da...@comcast.net>.
On Mar 9, 2013, at 6:57 AM, janI wrote:
> On Mar 9, 2013 3:18 PM, "Andrea Pescetti" <pe...@apache.org> wrote:
>>
>> janI wrote:
>>>
>>> That does not (as I read it) state that we can bypass RTC for
>>> non-committers. Allowing non-committers access is one thing, but allowing
>>> them to change the source (in this case text) directly is quite another.
>>
>>
>> Sure. The setting for new volunteers would be:
>>
>> 1) No paperwork, no ICLA, just create an account on Pootle
>>
>> 2) Translate through suggestions (equivalent to contributing patches)
>>
>> 3) RTC in place (i.e., strings are committed after a review by a
> committer, exactly as it happens now; what a "review" is in this context
> will vary, as it is now, depending on availability and skills of
> volunteers).
>
> that is perfectly within the ruleset.
>
> I thought the reason for local users was
> - get their work named or
> - allow them to do review (not possible on suggestions) or
> - save committers work
>
> as you suggest I cannot see the difference to using anonymous as we have it
> today ? What did I miss ?
We should know who is making the suggestion. If someone makes a large number of high quality suggestions then they are a good candidate for project committer.
If suggestions are all anonymous then we haven't a clue.
By naming the work then items 2 and 3 are future enhancements as more translators become committers.
>
> making support for non-ldap users is no trivial task (just think of spam
> protection) so clearly this effort should counter weighted of other
> advantages.
True, we should not be obfuscating work by moving it elsewhere.
Regards,
Dave
>
> rgds
> jan i
>>
>> Regards,
>> Andrea.
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@openoffice.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@openoffice.apache.org
>>
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Re: update service for not released languages [was: Re: Registration]
Posted by janI <ja...@apache.org>.
On Mar 9, 2013 3:18 PM, "Andrea Pescetti" <pe...@apache.org> wrote:
>
> janI wrote:
>>
>> That does not (as I read it) state that we can bypass RTC for
>> non-committers. Allowing non-committers access is one thing, but allowing
>> them to change the source (in this case text) directly is quite another.
>
>
> Sure. The setting for new volunteers would be:
>
> 1) No paperwork, no ICLA, just create an account on Pootle
>
> 2) Translate through suggestions (equivalent to contributing patches)
>
> 3) RTC in place (i.e., strings are committed after a review by a
committer, exactly as it happens now; what a "review" is in this context
will vary, as it is now, depending on availability and skills of
volunteers).
that is perfectly within the ruleset.
I thought the reason for local users was
- get their work named or
- allow them to do review (not possible on suggestions) or
- save committers work
as you suggest I cannot see the difference to using anonymous as we have it
today ? What did I miss ?
making support for non-ldap users is no trivial task (just think of spam
protection) so clearly this effort should counter weighted of other
advantages.
rgds
jan i
>
> Regards,
> Andrea.
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@openoffice.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@openoffice.apache.org
>
Re: update service for not released languages [was: Re: Registration]
Posted by Andrea Pescetti <pe...@apache.org>.
janI wrote:
> That does not (as I read it) state that we can bypass RTC for
> non-committers. Allowing non-committers access is one thing, but allowing
> them to change the source (in this case text) directly is quite another.
Sure. The setting for new volunteers would be:
1) No paperwork, no ICLA, just create an account on Pootle
2) Translate through suggestions (equivalent to contributing patches)
3) RTC in place (i.e., strings are committed after a review by a
committer, exactly as it happens now; what a "review" is in this context
will vary, as it is now, depending on availability and skills of
volunteers).
Regards,
Andrea.
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Re: update service for not released languages [was: Re: Registration]
Posted by janI <ja...@apache.org>.
On 9 March 2013 12:52, Andrea Pescetti <pe...@apache.org> wrote:
> On 03/03/2013 janI wrote:
>
>> On 3 March 2013 17:47, Andrea Pescetti wrote:
>>
>>> 1) Check on the Pootle 2.5 release date and features.
>>>
>> I would like to see it running on other sites the translate itself, but I
>> am just a negative (have been too long in support). My rule of thumb is
>> release date + 1 month, in order not to fight fight with start problems.
>>
>
> Here I agree with Rob that we need to set a deadline. A natural one is the
> translation period set at https://cwiki.apache.org/**
> confluence/display/OOOUSERS/**AOO+4.0+Release+Planning<https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OOOUSERS/AOO+4.0+Release+Planning>(beginning in one month). So, considering installation and testing, we
> would need Pootle 2.5 to be available soon. I've asked the developers if
> they have a timeline, just to get an idea.
>
> 2) Check that policy-wise it's fine to authenticate committers on LDAP and
>>> all other volunteers on a local backend. ...
>>>
>> infra (gmcdonald) was not positive, but I still think we
>> have a case and should go for it...I do however think a compromise could
>> be
>> a signed ICLA.
>>
>
> This has been clarified in the meantime on the Incubator lists (in a
> discussion otherwise unrelated to OpenOffice). No ICLA needed.
> http://mail-archives.apache.**org/mod_mbox/incubator-**
> general/201303.mbox/%3CCAAS6%**3D7hybut%**3DLGZQRkuuJPXKK4KPS6CiXDYE5-**
> QTmvguYHOVFA%40mail.gmail.com%**3E<http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/incubator-general/201303.mbox/%3CCAAS6%3D7hybut%3DLGZQRkuuJPXKK4KPS6CiXDYE5-QTmvguYHOVFA%40mail.gmail.com%3E>
>
That does not (as I read it) state that we can bypass RTC for
non-committers. Allowing non-committers access is one thing, but allowing
them to change the source (in this case text) directly is quite another.
Translated text is being compiled into our binaries, so there are no
difference for source code and and translations.
I have no problem (infra might see it differently) if non-committers do a
login and provide suggestions (as today), that way we keep RTC.
rgds
Jan I.
>
> 3) Optimize performance so that Pootle is actually usable by several
>>> users.
>>>
>> That is something on my list of todos, and infra ask me regulary when I do
>> it. ...a bottle of good italian wine when if finally works,
>> together with genLang.
>>
>
> OK. And OK for the bottle too!
>
> Regards,
> Andrea.
>
> ------------------------------**------------------------------**---------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@openoffice.**apache.org<de...@openoffice.apache.org>
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@openoffice.apache.org
>
>
Re: update service for not released languages [was: Re: Registration]
Posted by Jürgen Schmidt <jo...@gmail.com>.
On 4/4/13 8:26 AM, janI wrote:
> On 4 April 2013 06:19, Juergen Schmidt <jo...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Am Mittwoch, 3. April 2013 um 22:46 schrieb Rob Weir:
>>> On Sat, Mar 9, 2013 at 6:52 AM, Andrea Pescetti <pe...@apache.org>
>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 03/03/2013 janI wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 3 March 2013 17:47, Andrea Pescetti wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> 1) Check on the Pootle 2.5 release date and features.
>>>>> I would like to see it running on other sites the translate itself,
>> but I
>>>>>
>>>>> am just a negative (have been too long in support). My rule of thumb
>> is
>>>>> release date + 1 month, in order not to fight fight with start
>> problems.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Here I agree with Rob that we need to set a deadline. A natural one is
>> the
>>>> translation period set at https://cwiki.apache.org/**
>>>> confluence/display/OOOUSERS/**AOO+4.0+Release+Planning<
>> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OOOUSERS/AOO+4.0+Release+Planning>(beginning
>> in one month). So, considering installation and testing, we
>>>> would need Pootle 2.5 to be available soon. I've asked the developers
>> if
>>>> they have a timeline, just to get an idea.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Almost a month has passed since I made this proposal. Do we have a sense
>>> now whether the Pootle upgrade will occur in time for AOO 4.0
>>> translations? Or I should I go ahead with the a call for translations for
>>> AOO 4.0 using POEdit and similar off-line tools? This would include
>>> reaching out to users via the update notification mechanism.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> I will try to figure it out today...
>> But it is to early and we don't have the new translation files in place
>> yet. We have to merge the sidebar branch first and that is already in
>> preparation.
>>
>> 2.5 is not released and will most problaly not make it before we need it.
> BUT the translation interface have not changed, it is inner working and
> download possibilities.
>
> I think we need offline tools, I would not to mass translation on the
> server.
>
> To me the bigger question is, do we start translation with our current file
> structure, or will genLang be in place (heavely reduced file count).
> Integration into build system has been a lot more difficult than i
> expected, especially for helpcontent2. I have concentrated on helpcontent2,
> and are very close with that, so I expect us to take a discussion/vote next
> week, whether or not to integrate it in trunk.
Hi Jan,
having the new tooling in place would be great but we don't have
pressure. We should take all the time that we need to make it final and
complete and well tested. Before we integrate it we should test your
branch with some languages in detail on at least 3 platforms (Linux,
windows, MacOS).
You did a fantastic job and it will be a huge step forward. We can
integrate it probably at any time when it is ready.
On the other hand it is a very important part of our build system and my
experience told me that we should test it deeply. Don't get me wrong I
am sure you made a good job here, it's simply that I have seen too often
that we got many problems with less.
Don't put yourself under pressure.
I can build your branch on MacOS. What do I have to do exactly to
trigger your new tooling? I will ping you on IRC ...
Juergen
>
> rgds
> Jan I
>
>> Juergen
>>>
>>> -Rob
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> 2) Check that policy-wise it's fine to authenticate committers on LDAP
>> and
>>>>>> all other volunteers on a local backend. ...
>>>>>
>>>>> infra (gmcdonald) was not positive, but I still think we
>>>>> have a case and should go for it...I do however think a compromise
>> could
>>>>> be
>>>>> a signed ICLA.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> This has been clarified in the meantime on the Incubator lists (in a
>>>> discussion otherwise unrelated to OpenOffice). No ICLA needed.
>>>> http://mail-archives.apache.**org/mod_mbox/incubator-**
>>>>
>> general/201303.mbox/%3CCAAS6%**3D7hybut%**3DLGZQRkuuJPXKK4KPS6CiXDYE5-**
>>>> QTmvguYHOVFA%40mail.gmail.com%**3E<
>> http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/incubator-general/201303.mbox/%3CCAAS6%3D7hybut%3DLGZQRkuuJPXKK4KPS6CiXDYE5-QTmvguYHOVFA%40mail.gmail.com%3E
>>>
>>>>
>>>> 3) Optimize performance so that Pootle is actually usable by several
>>>>>> users.
>>>>>
>>>>> That is something on my list of todos, and infra ask me regulary
>> when I do
>>>>> it. ...a bottle of good italian wine when if finally works,
>>>>> together with genLang.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> OK. And OK for the bottle too!
>>>>
>>>> Regards,
>>>> Andrea.
>>>>
>>>>
>> ------------------------------**------------------------------**---------
>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@openoffice.**apache.org<
>> dev-unsubscribe@openoffice.apache.org>
>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@openoffice.apache.org
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>
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Re: update service for not released languages [was: Re: Registration]
Posted by janI <ja...@apache.org>.
On 4 April 2013 06:19, Juergen Schmidt <jo...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Am Mittwoch, 3. April 2013 um 22:46 schrieb Rob Weir:
> > On Sat, Mar 9, 2013 at 6:52 AM, Andrea Pescetti <pe...@apache.org>
> wrote:
> >
> > > On 03/03/2013 janI wrote:
> > >
> > > > On 3 March 2013 17:47, Andrea Pescetti wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > 1) Check on the Pootle 2.5 release date and features.
> > > > I would like to see it running on other sites the translate itself,
> but I
> > > >
> > > > am just a negative (have been too long in support). My rule of thumb
> is
> > > > release date + 1 month, in order not to fight fight with start
> problems.
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Here I agree with Rob that we need to set a deadline. A natural one is
> the
> > > translation period set at https://cwiki.apache.org/**
> > > confluence/display/OOOUSERS/**AOO+4.0+Release+Planning<
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OOOUSERS/AOO+4.0+Release+Planning>(beginning
> in one month). So, considering installation and testing, we
> > > would need Pootle 2.5 to be available soon. I've asked the developers
> if
> > > they have a timeline, just to get an idea.
> > >
> >
> > Almost a month has passed since I made this proposal. Do we have a sense
> > now whether the Pootle upgrade will occur in time for AOO 4.0
> > translations? Or I should I go ahead with the a call for translations for
> > AOO 4.0 using POEdit and similar off-line tools? This would include
> > reaching out to users via the update notification mechanism.
> >
> >
>
> I will try to figure it out today...
> But it is to early and we don't have the new translation files in place
> yet. We have to merge the sidebar branch first and that is already in
> preparation.
>
> 2.5 is not released and will most problaly not make it before we need it.
BUT the translation interface have not changed, it is inner working and
download possibilities.
I think we need offline tools, I would not to mass translation on the
server.
To me the bigger question is, do we start translation with our current file
structure, or will genLang be in place (heavely reduced file count).
Integration into build system has been a lot more difficult than i
expected, especially for helpcontent2. I have concentrated on helpcontent2,
and are very close with that, so I expect us to take a discussion/vote next
week, whether or not to integrate it in trunk.
rgds
Jan I
> Juergen
> >
> > -Rob
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > > 2) Check that policy-wise it's fine to authenticate committers on LDAP
> and
> > > > > all other volunteers on a local backend. ...
> > > >
> > > > infra (gmcdonald) was not positive, but I still think we
> > > > have a case and should go for it...I do however think a compromise
> could
> > > > be
> > > > a signed ICLA.
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > This has been clarified in the meantime on the Incubator lists (in a
> > > discussion otherwise unrelated to OpenOffice). No ICLA needed.
> > > http://mail-archives.apache.**org/mod_mbox/incubator-**
> > >
> general/201303.mbox/%3CCAAS6%**3D7hybut%**3DLGZQRkuuJPXKK4KPS6CiXDYE5-**
> > > QTmvguYHOVFA%40mail.gmail.com%**3E<
> http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/incubator-general/201303.mbox/%3CCAAS6%3D7hybut%3DLGZQRkuuJPXKK4KPS6CiXDYE5-QTmvguYHOVFA%40mail.gmail.com%3E
> >
> > >
> > > 3) Optimize performance so that Pootle is actually usable by several
> > > > > users.
> > > >
> > > > That is something on my list of todos, and infra ask me regulary
> when I do
> > > > it. ...a bottle of good italian wine when if finally works,
> > > > together with genLang.
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > OK. And OK for the bottle too!
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > > Andrea.
> > >
> > >
> ------------------------------**------------------------------**---------
> > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@openoffice.**apache.org<
> dev-unsubscribe@openoffice.apache.org>
> > > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@openoffice.apache.org
> > >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
Re: update service for not released languages [was: Re:
Registration]
Posted by Juergen Schmidt <jo...@gmail.com>.
Am Mittwoch, 3. April 2013 um 22:46 schrieb Rob Weir:
> On Sat, Mar 9, 2013 at 6:52 AM, Andrea Pescetti <pe...@apache.org> wrote:
>
> > On 03/03/2013 janI wrote:
> >
> > > On 3 March 2013 17:47, Andrea Pescetti wrote:
> > >
> > > > 1) Check on the Pootle 2.5 release date and features.
> > > I would like to see it running on other sites the translate itself, but I
> > >
> > > am just a negative (have been too long in support). My rule of thumb is
> > > release date + 1 month, in order not to fight fight with start problems.
> > >
> >
> >
> > Here I agree with Rob that we need to set a deadline. A natural one is the
> > translation period set at https://cwiki.apache.org/**
> > confluence/display/OOOUSERS/**AOO+4.0+Release+Planning<https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OOOUSERS/AOO+4.0+Release+Planning>(beginning in one month). So, considering installation and testing, we
> > would need Pootle 2.5 to be available soon. I've asked the developers if
> > they have a timeline, just to get an idea.
> >
>
> Almost a month has passed since I made this proposal. Do we have a sense
> now whether the Pootle upgrade will occur in time for AOO 4.0
> translations? Or I should I go ahead with the a call for translations for
> AOO 4.0 using POEdit and similar off-line tools? This would include
> reaching out to users via the update notification mechanism.
>
>
I will try to figure it out today...
But it is to early and we don't have the new translation files in place yet. We have to merge the sidebar branch first and that is already in preparation.
Juergen
>
> -Rob
>
>
>
>
> > 2) Check that policy-wise it's fine to authenticate committers on LDAP and
> > > > all other volunteers on a local backend. ...
> > >
> > > infra (gmcdonald) was not positive, but I still think we
> > > have a case and should go for it...I do however think a compromise could
> > > be
> > > a signed ICLA.
> > >
> >
> >
> > This has been clarified in the meantime on the Incubator lists (in a
> > discussion otherwise unrelated to OpenOffice). No ICLA needed.
> > http://mail-archives.apache.**org/mod_mbox/incubator-**
> > general/201303.mbox/%3CCAAS6%**3D7hybut%**3DLGZQRkuuJPXKK4KPS6CiXDYE5-**
> > QTmvguYHOVFA%40mail.gmail.com%**3E<http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/incubator-general/201303.mbox/%3CCAAS6%3D7hybut%3DLGZQRkuuJPXKK4KPS6CiXDYE5-QTmvguYHOVFA%40mail.gmail.com%3E>
> >
> > 3) Optimize performance so that Pootle is actually usable by several
> > > > users.
> > >
> > > That is something on my list of todos, and infra ask me regulary when I do
> > > it. ...a bottle of good italian wine when if finally works,
> > > together with genLang.
> > >
> >
> >
> > OK. And OK for the bottle too!
> >
> > Regards,
> > Andrea.
> >
> > ------------------------------**------------------------------**---------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@openoffice.**apache.org<de...@openoffice.apache.org>
> > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@openoffice.apache.org
> >
>
>
>
Re: update service for not released languages [was: Re: Registration]
Posted by Rob Weir <ro...@apache.org>.
On Sat, Mar 9, 2013 at 6:52 AM, Andrea Pescetti <pe...@apache.org> wrote:
> On 03/03/2013 janI wrote:
>
>> On 3 March 2013 17:47, Andrea Pescetti wrote:
>>
>>> 1) Check on the Pootle 2.5 release date and features.
>>>
>> I would like to see it running on other sites the translate itself, but I
>>
>> am just a negative (have been too long in support). My rule of thumb is
>> release date + 1 month, in order not to fight fight with start problems.
>>
>
> Here I agree with Rob that we need to set a deadline. A natural one is the
> translation period set at https://cwiki.apache.org/**
> confluence/display/OOOUSERS/**AOO+4.0+Release+Planning<https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OOOUSERS/AOO+4.0+Release+Planning>(beginning in one month). So, considering installation and testing, we
> would need Pootle 2.5 to be available soon. I've asked the developers if
> they have a timeline, just to get an idea.
>
>
Almost a month has passed since I made this proposal. Do we have a sense
now whether the Pootle upgrade will occur in time for AOO 4.0
translations? Or I should I go ahead with the a call for translations for
AOO 4.0 using POEdit and similar off-line tools? This would include
reaching out to users via the update notification mechanism.
-Rob
> 2) Check that policy-wise it's fine to authenticate committers on LDAP and
>>> all other volunteers on a local backend. ...
>>>
>> infra (gmcdonald) was not positive, but I still think we
>> have a case and should go for it...I do however think a compromise could
>> be
>> a signed ICLA.
>>
>
> This has been clarified in the meantime on the Incubator lists (in a
> discussion otherwise unrelated to OpenOffice). No ICLA needed.
> http://mail-archives.apache.**org/mod_mbox/incubator-**
> general/201303.mbox/%3CCAAS6%**3D7hybut%**3DLGZQRkuuJPXKK4KPS6CiXDYE5-**
> QTmvguYHOVFA%40mail.gmail.com%**3E<http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/incubator-general/201303.mbox/%3CCAAS6%3D7hybut%3DLGZQRkuuJPXKK4KPS6CiXDYE5-QTmvguYHOVFA%40mail.gmail.com%3E>
>
> 3) Optimize performance so that Pootle is actually usable by several
>>> users.
>>>
>> That is something on my list of todos, and infra ask me regulary when I do
>> it. ...a bottle of good italian wine when if finally works,
>> together with genLang.
>>
>
> OK. And OK for the bottle too!
>
> Regards,
> Andrea.
>
> ------------------------------**------------------------------**---------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@openoffice.**apache.org<de...@openoffice.apache.org>
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@openoffice.apache.org
>
>
Re: update service for not released languages [was: Re: Registration]
Posted by Andrea Pescetti <pe...@apache.org>.
On 03/03/2013 janI wrote:
> On 3 March 2013 17:47, Andrea Pescetti wrote:
>> 1) Check on the Pootle 2.5 release date and features.
> I would like to see it running on other sites the translate itself, but I
> am just a negative (have been too long in support). My rule of thumb is
> release date + 1 month, in order not to fight fight with start problems.
Here I agree with Rob that we need to set a deadline. A natural one is
the translation period set at
https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OOOUSERS/AOO+4.0+Release+Planning
(beginning in one month). So, considering installation and testing, we
would need Pootle 2.5 to be available soon. I've asked the developers if
they have a timeline, just to get an idea.
>> 2) Check that policy-wise it's fine to authenticate committers on LDAP and
>> all other volunteers on a local backend. ...
> infra (gmcdonald) was not positive, but I still think we
> have a case and should go for it...I do however think a compromise could be
> a signed ICLA.
This has been clarified in the meantime on the Incubator lists (in a
discussion otherwise unrelated to OpenOffice). No ICLA needed.
http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/incubator-general/201303.mbox/%3CCAAS6%3D7hybut%3DLGZQRkuuJPXKK4KPS6CiXDYE5-QTmvguYHOVFA%40mail.gmail.com%3E
>> 3) Optimize performance so that Pootle is actually usable by several users.
> That is something on my list of todos, and infra ask me regulary when I do
> it. ...a bottle of good italian wine when if finally works,
> together with genLang.
OK. And OK for the bottle too!
Regards,
Andrea.
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Re: update service for not released languages [was: Re: Registration]
Posted by janI <ja...@apache.org>.
On 3 March 2013 17:47, Andrea Pescetti <pe...@apache.org> wrote:
> On 01/03/2013 janI wrote:
>
>> We need to wait for the release of pootle, last I checked it was still not
>> official. Once 2.5 is released I will update translate-vm.
>> Please consider the translate-vm, is currently NOT configured for a higher
>> online volume (about 3 users and mysql is strugling). Infra has agreed
>> that
>> I do performance tuning after installing the new release.
>> It should be possible to configure 2.5 to use both ldap and local db.
>>
>
> OK, thanks for the detailed explanations. So the steps would be:
>
> 1) Check on the Pootle 2.5 release date and features. Indeed I can't find
> information easily at http://translate.sourceforge.**net/<http://translate.sourceforge.net/>so we will have to bother the developers. If you need any help in
> contacting them, just ask.
>
I would like to see it running on other sites the translate itself, but I
am just a negative (have been too long in support). My rule of thumb is
release date + 1 month, in order not to fight fight with start problems.
> 2) Check that policy-wise it's fine to authenticate committers on LDAP and
> all other volunteers on a local backend. I believe it's fine (and actually
> very helpful for our use case), but I'm prepared to raise the issue
> properly at due time.
>
You might need to, infra (gmcdonald) was not positive, but I still think we
have a case and should go for it...I do however think a compromise could be
a signed ICLA.
>
> 3) Optimize performance so that Pootle is actually usable by several users.
>
That is something on my list of todos, and infra ask me regulary when I do
it.
>
> Am I missing any other steps?
>
Not really, apart from a bottle of good italian wine when if finally works,
together with genLang.
>
> Regards,
> Andrea.
>
Re: update service for not released languages [was: Re: Registration]
Posted by Andrea Pescetti <pe...@apache.org>.
On 01/03/2013 janI wrote:
> We need to wait for the release of pootle, last I checked it was still not
> official. Once 2.5 is released I will update translate-vm.
> Please consider the translate-vm, is currently NOT configured for a higher
> online volume (about 3 users and mysql is strugling). Infra has agreed that
> I do performance tuning after installing the new release.
> It should be possible to configure 2.5 to use both ldap and local db.
OK, thanks for the detailed explanations. So the steps would be:
1) Check on the Pootle 2.5 release date and features. Indeed I can't
find information easily at http://translate.sourceforge.net/ so we will
have to bother the developers. If you need any help in contacting them,
just ask.
2) Check that policy-wise it's fine to authenticate committers on LDAP
and all other volunteers on a local backend. I believe it's fine (and
actually very helpful for our use case), but I'm prepared to raise the
issue properly at due time.
3) Optimize performance so that Pootle is actually usable by several users.
Am I missing any other steps?
Regards,
Andrea.
Re: update service for not released languages [was: Re: Registration]
Posted by Rob Weir <ro...@apache.org>.
On Fri, Mar 1, 2013 at 3:26 PM, janI <ja...@apache.org> wrote:
> On 1 March 2013 21:00, Andrea Pescetti <pe...@apache.org> wrote:
>
>> Rob Weir wrote:
>>
>>> Are we expecting any change to Pootle in the near term? If so, what and
>>> when?
>>>
>>
>> The changes look trivial but are not so trivial since Pootle accounts are
>> now linked to committer accounts. Currently anonymous users can suggest
>> translations, and users cannot register (they have to be committers).
>>
>> We need, for many good reasons (traceability, accountability...) that
>> anonymous suggestions are disabled and, at the same time, account creation
>> for non-committers is possible.
>>
>> I was concerned about losing content but apparently Jan reassured here and
>> on the l10n list that we are in a position to use/import strings from
>> Pootle at this stage. So it is a configuration/policy issue only.
>
>
> The import might be partly manual or a "perl/python" volunteer writes a
> small script. It is quite simple, match source file, english text in the
> translated po file, with the new po file, and update (I can write the req.
> but I am not fluent in perl/python).
>
> Offering an import possibility was a demand, since I cannot (and will not)
> request a full stop on translation.
>
>
>>
>> I would not recommend waiting too long. We've shown that offline
>>> translation is quite reasonable.. Most of the 3.4.1 languages were
>>> done that way.
>>>
>>
>> It worked, but the current process is really demanding on the motivation
>> (or technical skills) of volunteers. Compare an answer like "Welcome! Next
>> week we will send you a link to a .tar.bz2 archive containing 240 PO files
>> that you should open individually, translate and send us back" to "Welcome!
>> Please register at https://translate.apache.org/ and start translating
>> now".
>>
>> Then, if you ask me, I would probably prefer the 240 PO files, but the
>> majority of new volunteers will be perfectly at home with Pootle. So I
>> believe we should fix it before any other mass-recruitment actions.
>>
>
> We need to wait for the release of pootle, last I checked it was still not
> official. Once 2.5 is released I will update translate-vm.
>
> Please consider the translate-vm, is currently NOT configured for a higher
> online volume (about 3 users and mysql is strugling). Infra has agreed that
> I do performance tuning after installing the new release.
>
> It should be possible to configure 2.5 to use both ldap and local db. The
> current version is either/or making it technically impossible to allow
> non-commiter login. Since pootle is seen as a asf-wide service, we need to
> get the acceptance from infra.
>
Ah. OK. That is the part I did not know before. This is not
entirely an Infra policy thing, but we're waiting for some new
technical capabilities in Pootle 2.5.
-Rob
> Please remember genLang will reduce the number of files to 54 files (1 pr
> module, and for helpcontent2 1 pr sub directory). The extraction part of
> genLang is nearly ready for production (as you might have seen in the
> commits).
>
> rgds
> jan I.
>
> Regards,
>> Andrea.
>>
Re: update service for not released languages [was: Re: Registration]
Posted by janI <ja...@apache.org>.
On 1 March 2013 21:00, Andrea Pescetti <pe...@apache.org> wrote:
> Rob Weir wrote:
>
>> Are we expecting any change to Pootle in the near term? If so, what and
>> when?
>>
>
> The changes look trivial but are not so trivial since Pootle accounts are
> now linked to committer accounts. Currently anonymous users can suggest
> translations, and users cannot register (they have to be committers).
>
> We need, for many good reasons (traceability, accountability...) that
> anonymous suggestions are disabled and, at the same time, account creation
> for non-committers is possible.
>
> I was concerned about losing content but apparently Jan reassured here and
> on the l10n list that we are in a position to use/import strings from
> Pootle at this stage. So it is a configuration/policy issue only.
The import might be partly manual or a "perl/python" volunteer writes a
small script. It is quite simple, match source file, english text in the
translated po file, with the new po file, and update (I can write the req.
but I am not fluent in perl/python).
Offering an import possibility was a demand, since I cannot (and will not)
request a full stop on translation.
>
> I would not recommend waiting too long. We've shown that offline
>> translation is quite reasonable.. Most of the 3.4.1 languages were
>> done that way.
>>
>
> It worked, but the current process is really demanding on the motivation
> (or technical skills) of volunteers. Compare an answer like "Welcome! Next
> week we will send you a link to a .tar.bz2 archive containing 240 PO files
> that you should open individually, translate and send us back" to "Welcome!
> Please register at https://translate.apache.org/ and start translating
> now".
>
> Then, if you ask me, I would probably prefer the 240 PO files, but the
> majority of new volunteers will be perfectly at home with Pootle. So I
> believe we should fix it before any other mass-recruitment actions.
>
We need to wait for the release of pootle, last I checked it was still not
official. Once 2.5 is released I will update translate-vm.
Please consider the translate-vm, is currently NOT configured for a higher
online volume (about 3 users and mysql is strugling). Infra has agreed that
I do performance tuning after installing the new release.
It should be possible to configure 2.5 to use both ldap and local db. The
current version is either/or making it technically impossible to allow
non-commiter login. Since pootle is seen as a asf-wide service, we need to
get the acceptance from infra.
Please remember genLang will reduce the number of files to 54 files (1 pr
module, and for helpcontent2 1 pr sub directory). The extraction part of
genLang is nearly ready for production (as you might have seen in the
commits).
rgds
jan I.
Regards,
> Andrea.
>
Re: update service for not released languages [was: Re: Registration]
Posted by Andrea Pescetti <pe...@apache.org>.
Rob Weir wrote:
> Are we expecting any change to Pootle in the near term? If so, what and when?
The changes look trivial but are not so trivial since Pootle accounts
are now linked to committer accounts. Currently anonymous users can
suggest translations, and users cannot register (they have to be
committers).
We need, for many good reasons (traceability, accountability...) that
anonymous suggestions are disabled and, at the same time, account
creation for non-committers is possible.
I was concerned about losing content but apparently Jan reassured here
and on the l10n list that we are in a position to use/import strings
from Pootle at this stage. So it is a configuration/policy issue only.
> I would not recommend waiting too long. We've shown that offline
> translation is quite reasonable.. Most of the 3.4.1 languages were
> done that way.
It worked, but the current process is really demanding on the motivation
(or technical skills) of volunteers. Compare an answer like "Welcome!
Next week we will send you a link to a .tar.bz2 archive containing 240
PO files that you should open individually, translate and send us back"
to "Welcome! Please register at https://translate.apache.org/ and start
translating now".
Then, if you ask me, I would probably prefer the 240 PO files, but the
majority of new volunteers will be perfectly at home with Pootle. So I
believe we should fix it before any other mass-recruitment actions.
Regards,
Andrea.
Re: update service for not released languages [was: Re: Registration]
Posted by Rob Weir <ra...@gmail.com>.
On Feb 28, 2013, at 6:52 PM, Andrea Pescetti <pe...@apache.org> wrote:
> On 28/02/2013 Oliver-Rainer Wittmann wrote:
>> I had a look and an additional text is possible - see attached screenshot.
>> The additional text should be translated into the corresponding language.
>
> This could be a good idea. We surely don't want to notify users that an update is available if it isn't (in their language).
>
I think it is still worth a notification, especially in bilingual
areas. A user might prefer to have a more recent release in a 2nd
language than an old release in a 1st language. It is a reasonable
choice either way.
> But if we manage to properly communicate in the dialog box that this is actually a call for volunteers (and write it in the corresponding language so that it cannot be misinterpreted) this could be a nice way to involve new people.
>
> Based on the experience we had so far with teams, I would honestly wait that Pootle is available for all interested languages before we do this. Or at least we should see if we have a timeframe for a new Pootle setup that will maximize the likelihood to actually recruit new volunteers. Ideally, we should also have (unannounced) development builds available in the target languages to be able to point volunteers to them when they write.
>
Are we expecting any change to Pootle in the near term? If so, what and when?
I would not recommend waiting too long. We've shown that offline
translation is quite reasonable.. Most of the 3.4.1 languages were
done that way.
-Rob
> Regards,
> Andrea.
Re: update service for not released languages [was: Re: Registration]
Posted by Oliver-Rainer Wittmann <or...@googlemail.com>.
Hi,
On 01.03.2013 00:51, Andrea Pescetti wrote:
> On 28/02/2013 Oliver-Rainer Wittmann wrote:
>> I had a look and an additional text is possible - see attached
>> screenshot.
>> The additional text should be translated into the corresponding language.
>
> This could be a good idea. We surely don't want to notify users that an
> update is available if it isn't (in their language).
>
> But if we manage to properly communicate in the dialog box that this is
> actually a call for volunteers (and write it in the corresponding
> language so that it cannot be misinterpreted) this could be a nice way
> to involve new people.
>
Yes, that was exactly the purpose why I had a look.
+1 from my side to include such an explaining text in the update
notification dialog.
> Based on the experience we had so far with teams, I would honestly wait
> that Pootle is available for all interested languages before we do this.
> Or at least we should see if we have a timeframe for a new Pootle setup
> that will maximize the likelihood to actually recruit new volunteers.
> Ideally, we should also have (unannounced) development builds available
> in the target languages to be able to point volunteers to them when they
> write.
>
Again +1
Our tools should be ready before we start this promotion.
Best regards, Oliver.
Re: update service for not released languages [was: Re: Registration]
Posted by Andrea Pescetti <pe...@apache.org>.
On 28/02/2013 Oliver-Rainer Wittmann wrote:
> I had a look and an additional text is possible - see attached screenshot.
> The additional text should be translated into the corresponding language.
This could be a good idea. We surely don't want to notify users that an
update is available if it isn't (in their language).
But if we manage to properly communicate in the dialog box that this is
actually a call for volunteers (and write it in the corresponding
language so that it cannot be misinterpreted) this could be a nice way
to involve new people.
Based on the experience we had so far with teams, I would honestly wait
that Pootle is available for all interested languages before we do this.
Or at least we should see if we have a timeframe for a new Pootle setup
that will maximize the likelihood to actually recruit new volunteers.
Ideally, we should also have (unannounced) development builds available
in the target languages to be able to point volunteers to them when they
write.
Regards,
Andrea.
Re: update service for not released languages [was: Re: Registration]
Posted by Oliver-Rainer Wittmann <or...@googlemail.com>.
Hi,
On 27.02.2013 11:17, Oliver-Rainer Wittmann wrote:
> Hi,
>
> On 26.02.2013 22:48, Rob Weir wrote:
>> On Tue, Aug 14, 2012 at 3:35 AM, Oliver-Rainer Wittmann
>> <or...@googlemail.com> wrote:
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> On 09.08.2012 22:23, Andrea Pescetti wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Oliver-Rainer Wittmann wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> On 07.08.2012 23:44, Andrea Pescetti wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I created a page with this content at
>>>>>> http://www.openoffice.org/legacy/thankyou.html
>>>>>
>>>>> May be we can use it also for our update service. It could be the
>>>>> landing page for users of legacy OOo versions for whose language we do
>>>>> not have a released package.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> For those cases it would be better to wait until 3.4.1 is out, then
>>>> provide, for
>>>> unsupported languages, some "beta/RC" builds or langpacks based on the
>>>> same SVN
>>>> revision and the SDF files we have now and create a page saying
>>>> something
>>>> like
>>>> "your language is not officially supported, but you can help us
>>>> [links to
>>>> unofficial builds and instructions]". But this is just an idea that
>>>> we can
>>>> discuss after 3.4.1 is released.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Yes, I would definitely wait until AOO 3.4.1 is out.
>>>
>>> Having unofficial language packs for our unsupported languages would
>>> be a
>>> good idea, esp. to attract some new volunteers for translations.
>>>
>>> I will keep your's and Rob's idea in mind for my planned future work
>>> on the
>>> update service.
>>>
>>
>> Now that the 3.4.1 language respin is released I'd like to bring back
>> to mind this earlier discussion. There are (we assume) many users
>> out there still running OOo 3.3.0 or earlier. Even months after 3.4.0
>> and 3.4.1 were released we get a steady stream of upgrades from OOo
>> 3.3.0, 3.2.1 and 3.2.0.
>>
>> But we're only advertising upgrades for those cases where we have a
>> translation for that language. I wonder if we could use the upgrade
>> notification message as a form of recruitment for translation help in
>> AOO 4.0?
>>
>
> Yes, the update service could be used for it.
> For each language we are able to provide its own web site URL. Thus, we
> could use a landing page URL for languages for which we have no release.
>
> I will have a look, if the message shown in the update service dialog in
> the running OOo 3.2, 3.2.1 and 3.3 instance can already contain a
> corresponding short message that the new version is not available in the
> requested language.
>
I had a look and an additional text is possible - see attached screenshot.
The additional text should be translated into the corresponding language.
Best regards, Oliver.
>> One idea would be this:
>>
>> 1) Create a landing page on the website that makes the following points:
>>
>> a) You are running an older version of OpenOffice. A more recent one
>> is available, AOO 3.4.1, available in the following languages...
>>
>> b) We're working on a new 4.0 release with many exciting feature
>> (point to blog post). We'd love to support your language, but need
>> help with translation. If you want to help, or know someone who might
>> be interested, here is where to find more information on how to get
>> involved...
>>
>> c) Sign up here on the announcement mailing list (or Facebook, or
>> Twitter or Google+) to be notified when AOO 4.0 is released
>>
>> 2) Then enable update notifications for all languages not included in
>> AOO 3.4.1, and point the user to the new landing page.
>>
>> 3) After a week revert the update configuration file on our server to
>> the earlier state, so users do not get this message repeatedly. (By
>> default it should check only once a week).
>>
>> I think something like the above would be great to do in the near
>> term, since it would give enough time for new volunteers to complete
>> translations in time for AOO 4.0.
>>
>
> +1 from my side.
> ad 3): may extend to two weeks
>
> Best regards, Oliver.
Re: update service for not released languages [was: Re: Registration]
Posted by Oliver-Rainer Wittmann <or...@googlemail.com>.
Hi,
On 26.02.2013 22:48, Rob Weir wrote:
> On Tue, Aug 14, 2012 at 3:35 AM, Oliver-Rainer Wittmann
> <or...@googlemail.com> wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> On 09.08.2012 22:23, Andrea Pescetti wrote:
>>>
>>> Oliver-Rainer Wittmann wrote:
>>>>
>>>> On 07.08.2012 23:44, Andrea Pescetti wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> I created a page with this content at
>>>>> http://www.openoffice.org/legacy/thankyou.html
>>>>
>>>> May be we can use it also for our update service. It could be the
>>>> landing page for users of legacy OOo versions for whose language we do
>>>> not have a released package.
>>>
>>>
>>> For those cases it would be better to wait until 3.4.1 is out, then
>>> provide, for
>>> unsupported languages, some "beta/RC" builds or langpacks based on the
>>> same SVN
>>> revision and the SDF files we have now and create a page saying something
>>> like
>>> "your language is not officially supported, but you can help us [links to
>>> unofficial builds and instructions]". But this is just an idea that we can
>>> discuss after 3.4.1 is released.
>>>
>>
>> Yes, I would definitely wait until AOO 3.4.1 is out.
>>
>> Having unofficial language packs for our unsupported languages would be a
>> good idea, esp. to attract some new volunteers for translations.
>>
>> I will keep your's and Rob's idea in mind for my planned future work on the
>> update service.
>>
>
> Now that the 3.4.1 language respin is released I'd like to bring back
> to mind this earlier discussion. There are (we assume) many users
> out there still running OOo 3.3.0 or earlier. Even months after 3.4.0
> and 3.4.1 were released we get a steady stream of upgrades from OOo
> 3.3.0, 3.2.1 and 3.2.0.
>
> But we're only advertising upgrades for those cases where we have a
> translation for that language. I wonder if we could use the upgrade
> notification message as a form of recruitment for translation help in
> AOO 4.0?
>
Yes, the update service could be used for it.
For each language we are able to provide its own web site URL. Thus, we
could use a landing page URL for languages for which we have no release.
I will have a look, if the message shown in the update service dialog in
the running OOo 3.2, 3.2.1 and 3.3 instance can already contain a
corresponding short message that the new version is not available in the
requested language.
> One idea would be this:
>
> 1) Create a landing page on the website that makes the following points:
>
> a) You are running an older version of OpenOffice. A more recent one
> is available, AOO 3.4.1, available in the following languages...
>
> b) We're working on a new 4.0 release with many exciting feature
> (point to blog post). We'd love to support your language, but need
> help with translation. If you want to help, or know someone who might
> be interested, here is where to find more information on how to get
> involved...
>
> c) Sign up here on the announcement mailing list (or Facebook, or
> Twitter or Google+) to be notified when AOO 4.0 is released
>
> 2) Then enable update notifications for all languages not included in
> AOO 3.4.1, and point the user to the new landing page.
>
> 3) After a week revert the update configuration file on our server to
> the earlier state, so users do not get this message repeatedly. (By
> default it should check only once a week).
>
> I think something like the above would be great to do in the near
> term, since it would give enough time for new volunteers to complete
> translations in time for AOO 4.0.
>
+1 from my side.
ad 3): may extend to two weeks
Best regards, Oliver.
Re: update service for not released languages [was: Re: Registration]
Posted by Rob Weir <ro...@apache.org>.
On Tue, Aug 14, 2012 at 3:35 AM, Oliver-Rainer Wittmann
<or...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> On 09.08.2012 22:23, Andrea Pescetti wrote:
>>
>> Oliver-Rainer Wittmann wrote:
>>>
>>> On 07.08.2012 23:44, Andrea Pescetti wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I created a page with this content at
>>>> http://www.openoffice.org/legacy/thankyou.html
>>>
>>> May be we can use it also for our update service. It could be the
>>> landing page for users of legacy OOo versions for whose language we do
>>> not have a released package.
>>
>>
>> For those cases it would be better to wait until 3.4.1 is out, then
>> provide, for
>> unsupported languages, some "beta/RC" builds or langpacks based on the
>> same SVN
>> revision and the SDF files we have now and create a page saying something
>> like
>> "your language is not officially supported, but you can help us [links to
>> unofficial builds and instructions]". But this is just an idea that we can
>> discuss after 3.4.1 is released.
>>
>
> Yes, I would definitely wait until AOO 3.4.1 is out.
>
> Having unofficial language packs for our unsupported languages would be a
> good idea, esp. to attract some new volunteers for translations.
>
> I will keep your's and Rob's idea in mind for my planned future work on the
> update service.
>
Now that the 3.4.1 language respin is released I'd like to bring back
to mind this earlier discussion. There are (we assume) many users
out there still running OOo 3.3.0 or earlier. Even months after 3.4.0
and 3.4.1 were released we get a steady stream of upgrades from OOo
3.3.0, 3.2.1 and 3.2.0.
But we're only advertising upgrades for those cases where we have a
translation for that language. I wonder if we could use the upgrade
notification message as a form of recruitment for translation help in
AOO 4.0?
One idea would be this:
1) Create a landing page on the website that makes the following points:
a) You are running an older version of OpenOffice. A more recent one
is available, AOO 3.4.1, available in the following languages...
b) We're working on a new 4.0 release with many exciting feature
(point to blog post). We'd love to support your language, but need
help with translation. If you want to help, or know someone who might
be interested, here is where to find more information on how to get
involved...
c) Sign up here on the announcement mailing list (or Facebook, or
Twitter or Google+) to be notified when AOO 4.0 is released
2) Then enable update notifications for all languages not included in
AOO 3.4.1, and point the user to the new landing page.
3) After a week revert the update configuration file on our server to
the earlier state, so users do not get this message repeatedly. (By
default it should check only once a week).
I think something like the above would be great to do in the near
term, since it would give enough time for new volunteers to complete
translations in time for AOO 4.0.
-Rob
>
> Best regards, Oliver.
update service for not released languages [was: Re: Registration]
Posted by Oliver-Rainer Wittmann <or...@googlemail.com>.
Hi,
On 09.08.2012 22:23, Andrea Pescetti wrote:
> Oliver-Rainer Wittmann wrote:
>> On 07.08.2012 23:44, Andrea Pescetti wrote:
>>> I created a page with this content at
>>> http://www.openoffice.org/legacy/thankyou.html
>> May be we can use it also for our update service. It could be the
>> landing page for users of legacy OOo versions for whose language we do
>> not have a released package.
>
> For those cases it would be better to wait until 3.4.1 is out, then provide, for
> unsupported languages, some "beta/RC" builds or langpacks based on the same SVN
> revision and the SDF files we have now and create a page saying something like
> "your language is not officially supported, but you can help us [links to
> unofficial builds and instructions]". But this is just an idea that we can
> discuss after 3.4.1 is released.
>
Yes, I would definitely wait until AOO 3.4.1 is out.
Having unofficial language packs for our unsupported languages would be a good
idea, esp. to attract some new volunteers for translations.
I will keep your's and Rob's idea in mind for my planned future work on the
update service.
Best regards, Oliver.
Re: Registration
Posted by Andrea Pescetti <pe...@apache.org>.
Oliver-Rainer Wittmann wrote:
> On 07.08.2012 23:44, Andrea Pescetti wrote:
>> I created a page with this content at
>> http://www.openoffice.org/legacy/thankyou.html
> May be we can use it also for our update service. It could be the
> landing page for users of legacy OOo versions for whose language we do
> not have a released package.
For those cases it would be better to wait until 3.4.1 is out, then
provide, for unsupported languages, some "beta/RC" builds or langpacks
based on the same SVN revision and the SDF files we have now and create
a page saying something like "your language is not officially supported,
but you can help us [links to unofficial builds and instructions]". But
this is just an idea that we can discuss after 3.4.1 is released.
Regards,
Andrea.
Re: Registration
Posted by Oliver-Rainer Wittmann <or...@googlemail.com>.
Hi,
On 09.08.2012 16:23, Rob Weir wrote:
> On Thu, Aug 9, 2012 at 2:34 AM, Oliver-Rainer Wittmann
> <or...@googlemail.com> wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>>
>> On 07.08.2012 23:44, Andrea Pescetti wrote:
>>>
>>> On 23/07/2012 Rob Weir wrote:
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, Jul 23, 2012 at 12:53 PM, Andrea Pescetti wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> So I'd propose to ask Infra to redirect the whole domains
>>>>> https://registration2.services.openoffice.org/
>>>>> http://registration2.services.openoffice.org/
>>>>> http://survey.services.openoffice.org/
>>>>> to something that explains that OpenOffice.org is now at Apache.
>>>>
>>>> So it might make sense to send them to the download page? Or a
>>>> custom/new page that says:
>>>> a) Thank you for installing OOo
>>>> b) OOo is now at Apache
>>>> c) The latest version is AOO 3.4. You can get it here (give download
>>>> link)
>>>> d) Useful extensions and templates are here (give links)
>>>> e) If you want to stay informed about new releases and other
>>>> announcements, here is our announcement link, Twitter account, etc.
>>>
>>>
>>> I created a page with this content at
>>> http://www.openoffice.org/legacy/thankyou.html
>>>
>>
>> This page looks good.
>>
>> May be we can use it also for our update service. It could be the landing
>> page for users of legacy OOo versions for whose language we do not have a
>> released package. Currently, the update service for such legacy OOo versions
>> is not active.
>>
>
> How would that work, for an end user? I thought an update check
> occurs every week. So suppose someone was currently using OOo 3.3.0
> in the Korean translation. Every week they would get a notification
> saying an update is available. This would take them to a page (in
> English) that says AOO 3.4.0 is available, but not in Korean. And if
> they don't install 3.4.0 they continue to get the message every week?
>
> That sounds annoying.
>
You are right, that would be annoying.
> Or is there a way we can give a set of users a message once, so after
> they dismiss the message it does not return every week? Something
> like an Atom/RSS feed that can be displayed in the client. That would
> be more useful.
>
> Of course, we cannot now modify the UI and logic of OOo 3.3.0. But we
> could fake it with a hack. For example, we could a message in for all
> languages in the update XML, but only have it there for 2 weeks. Then
> we would revert the XML back to only notifying users for updates in
> their language.
>
Sounds like a reasonable idea.
Best regards, Oliver.
Re: Registration
Posted by Rob Weir <ro...@apache.org>.
On Thu, Aug 9, 2012 at 2:34 AM, Oliver-Rainer Wittmann
<or...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> Hi,
>
>
> On 07.08.2012 23:44, Andrea Pescetti wrote:
>>
>> On 23/07/2012 Rob Weir wrote:
>>>
>>> On Mon, Jul 23, 2012 at 12:53 PM, Andrea Pescetti wrote:
>>>>
>>>> So I'd propose to ask Infra to redirect the whole domains
>>>> https://registration2.services.openoffice.org/
>>>> http://registration2.services.openoffice.org/
>>>> http://survey.services.openoffice.org/
>>>> to something that explains that OpenOffice.org is now at Apache.
>>>
>>> So it might make sense to send them to the download page? Or a
>>> custom/new page that says:
>>> a) Thank you for installing OOo
>>> b) OOo is now at Apache
>>> c) The latest version is AOO 3.4. You can get it here (give download
>>> link)
>>> d) Useful extensions and templates are here (give links)
>>> e) If you want to stay informed about new releases and other
>>> announcements, here is our announcement link, Twitter account, etc.
>>
>>
>> I created a page with this content at
>> http://www.openoffice.org/legacy/thankyou.html
>>
>
> This page looks good.
>
> May be we can use it also for our update service. It could be the landing
> page for users of legacy OOo versions for whose language we do not have a
> released package. Currently, the update service for such legacy OOo versions
> is not active.
>
How would that work, for an end user? I thought an update check
occurs every week. So suppose someone was currently using OOo 3.3.0
in the Korean translation. Every week they would get a notification
saying an update is available. This would take them to a page (in
English) that says AOO 3.4.0 is available, but not in Korean. And if
they don't install 3.4.0 they continue to get the message every week?
That sounds annoying.
Or is there a way we can give a set of users a message once, so after
they dismiss the message it does not return every week? Something
like an Atom/RSS feed that can be displayed in the client. That would
be more useful.
Of course, we cannot now modify the UI and logic of OOo 3.3.0. But we
could fake it with a hack. For example, we could a message in for all
languages in the update XML, but only have it there for 2 weeks. Then
we would revert the XML back to only notifying users for updates in
their language.
-Rob
> Best regards, Oliver.
>
>
>> If we have lazy consensus (i.e., no objections in 72 hours or so) on this,
>> I'll
>> then proceed and ask Infra to redirect all legacy links to this page. This
>> includes the whole subdomains above and, if someone manages to find it,
>> the URL
>> OpenOffice opens when one uninstalls version 3.3.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Andrea.
Re: Registration
Posted by Oliver-Rainer Wittmann <or...@googlemail.com>.
Hi,
On 07.08.2012 23:44, Andrea Pescetti wrote:
> On 23/07/2012 Rob Weir wrote:
>> On Mon, Jul 23, 2012 at 12:53 PM, Andrea Pescetti wrote:
>>> So I'd propose to ask Infra to redirect the whole domains
>>> https://registration2.services.openoffice.org/
>>> http://registration2.services.openoffice.org/
>>> http://survey.services.openoffice.org/
>>> to something that explains that OpenOffice.org is now at Apache.
>> So it might make sense to send them to the download page? Or a
>> custom/new page that says:
>> a) Thank you for installing OOo
>> b) OOo is now at Apache
>> c) The latest version is AOO 3.4. You can get it here (give download link)
>> d) Useful extensions and templates are here (give links)
>> e) If you want to stay informed about new releases and other
>> announcements, here is our announcement link, Twitter account, etc.
>
> I created a page with this content at
> http://www.openoffice.org/legacy/thankyou.html
>
This page looks good.
May be we can use it also for our update service. It could be the landing page
for users of legacy OOo versions for whose language we do not have a released
package. Currently, the update service for such legacy OOo versions is not active.
Best regards, Oliver.
> If we have lazy consensus (i.e., no objections in 72 hours or so) on this, I'll
> then proceed and ask Infra to redirect all legacy links to this page. This
> includes the whole subdomains above and, if someone manages to find it, the URL
> OpenOffice opens when one uninstalls version 3.3.
>
> Regards,
> Andrea.