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Posted to users@spamassassin.apache.org by Jorgen Lundman <lu...@lundman.net> on 2005/10/04 02:27:56 UTC
Forward to learn spam and ham?
I would assume someone has already solved this, but it seems hard to search for.
I would like to setup SA site wide, so that all the users can use it. However,
users are not very technical, so it would be nice if they could have an easy
method to train their own DBs.
I envisioned that a "user@domain.com" user could forward said mail to something
like "learn-spam!user@domain.com" (forward to themselves, with instructions) to
train SA. Naturally also "learn-ham!user@domain.com". The syntax/method is not
so important.
I would imagine I could do this in procmail, but I would have to make sure:
1) Procmail drops the enclosing email, which is from the user themselves, so
that isn't part of the training.
2) The spam/ham email might be inline, or attached, so deal with both.
Already been done? Or just plain bad idea?
Ultimately, it would be nice if there was a global DB that I/sysadmin to could
train, as well as, each user's own DB that they train. That way I can globally
add spam when I am sure that it is spam.
Any reply would be nice!
Sincerely,
Lund
--
Jorgen Lundman | <lu...@lundman.net>
Unix Administrator | +81 (0)3 -5456-2687 ext 1017 (work)
Shibuya-ku, Tokyo | +81 (0)90-5578-8500 (cell)
Japan | +81 (0)3 -3375-1767 (home)
Re: Forward to learn spam and ham?
Posted by Jorgen Lundman <lu...@lundman.net>.
Thanks,
Stearns mail gives ground work, but the "bounce" requirement is not acceptable
as Lenz points out. Nor do sufficient enough people run imap (less than 1%).
Naturally this can be done, it is just complicated. Perhaps if I assume the spam
mails are always forwarded "inline" I can strip the first header, then pipe it
in as --mbox.
Thanks for the feedback,
Lund
Matthew Lenz wrote:
> I believe that only works with a redirect/bounce though and outlook
> express doesn't support it. dunno about your users but with mine that
> represents about 95% of the users. What about IMAP? If you have your
> users switch to IMAP you can just have a Spam folder for each account.
> Can't think of any clients that don't support IMAP.
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "William Stearns" <ws...@pobox.com>
> To: "Jorgen Lundman" <lu...@lundman.net>
> Cc: "ML-spamassassin-talk" <us...@spamassassin.apache.org>; "William
> Stearns" <ws...@pobox.com>
> Sent: Monday, October 03, 2005 10:10 PM
> Subject: Re: Forward to learn spam and ham?
>
>
>> Good evening, Jorgen,
>>
>> On Tue, 4 Oct 2005, Jorgen Lundman wrote:
>>
>>> I would assume someone has already solved this, but it seems hard to
>>> search for.
>>>
>>> I would like to setup SA site wide, so that all the users can use it.
>>> However, users are not very technical, so it would be nice if they
>>> could have an easy method to train their own DBs.
>>>
>>> I envisioned that a "user@domain.com" user could forward said mail to
>>> something like "learn-spam!user@domain.com" (forward to themselves,
>>> with instructions) to train SA. Naturally also
>>> "learn-ham!user@domain.com". The syntax/method is not so important.
>>>
>>> I would imagine I could do this in procmail, but I would have to make
>>> sure:
>>>
>>> 1) Procmail drops the enclosing email, which is from the user
>>> themselves, so that isn't part of the training.
>>>
>>> 2) The spam/ham email might be inline, or attached, so deal with both.
>>>
>>> Already been done? Or just plain bad idea?
>>>
>>> Ultimately, it would be nice if there was a global DB that I/sysadmin
>>> to could train, as well as, each user's own DB that they train. That
>>> way I can globally add spam when I am sure that it is spam.
>>
>>
>> I think this covers what you need:
>>
>> http://www.stearns.org/doc/spamassassin-setup.current.html#autoreporting
>>
>> Cheers,
>> - Bill
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> "If you think technology can solve your security problems, then
>> you don't understand the problems and you don't understand the
>> technology."
>> -- Bruce Schneier, Secrets and Lies
>> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> William Stearns (wstearns@pobox.com). Mason, Buildkernel, freedups, p0f,
>> rsync-backup, ssh-keyinstall, dns-check, more at:
>> http://www.stearns.org
>> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>
>
>
--
Jorgen Lundman | <lu...@lundman.net>
Unix Administrator | +81 (0)3 -5456-2687 ext 1017 (work)
Shibuya-ku, Tokyo | +81 (0)90-5578-8500 (cell)
Japan | +81 (0)3 -3375-1767 (home)
Re: Forward to learn spam and ham?
Posted by Matthew Lenz <ma...@nocturnal.org>.
I believe that only works with a redirect/bounce though and outlook express
doesn't support it. dunno about your users but with mine that represents
about 95% of the users. What about IMAP? If you have your users switch to
IMAP you can just have a Spam folder for each account. Can't think of any
clients that don't support IMAP.
----- Original Message -----
From: "William Stearns" <ws...@pobox.com>
To: "Jorgen Lundman" <lu...@lundman.net>
Cc: "ML-spamassassin-talk" <us...@spamassassin.apache.org>; "William
Stearns" <ws...@pobox.com>
Sent: Monday, October 03, 2005 10:10 PM
Subject: Re: Forward to learn spam and ham?
> Good evening, Jorgen,
>
> On Tue, 4 Oct 2005, Jorgen Lundman wrote:
>
>> I would assume someone has already solved this, but it seems hard to
>> search for.
>>
>> I would like to setup SA site wide, so that all the users can use it.
>> However, users are not very technical, so it would be nice if they could
>> have an easy method to train their own DBs.
>>
>> I envisioned that a "user@domain.com" user could forward said mail to
>> something like "learn-spam!user@domain.com" (forward to themselves, with
>> instructions) to train SA. Naturally also "learn-ham!user@domain.com".
>> The syntax/method is not so important.
>>
>> I would imagine I could do this in procmail, but I would have to make
>> sure:
>>
>> 1) Procmail drops the enclosing email, which is from the user themselves,
>> so that isn't part of the training.
>>
>> 2) The spam/ham email might be inline, or attached, so deal with both.
>>
>> Already been done? Or just plain bad idea?
>>
>> Ultimately, it would be nice if there was a global DB that I/sysadmin to
>> could train, as well as, each user's own DB that they train. That way I
>> can globally add spam when I am sure that it is spam.
>
> I think this covers what you need:
>
> http://www.stearns.org/doc/spamassassin-setup.current.html#autoreporting
>
> Cheers,
> - Bill
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
> "If you think technology can solve your security problems, then
> you don't understand the problems and you don't understand the
> technology."
> -- Bruce Schneier, Secrets and Lies
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
> William Stearns (wstearns@pobox.com). Mason, Buildkernel, freedups, p0f,
> rsync-backup, ssh-keyinstall, dns-check, more at: http://www.stearns.org
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
Re: Forward to learn spam and ham?
Posted by William Stearns <ws...@pobox.com>.
Good evening, Jorgen,
On Tue, 4 Oct 2005, Jorgen Lundman wrote:
> I would assume someone has already solved this, but it seems hard to search
> for.
>
> I would like to setup SA site wide, so that all the users can use it.
> However, users are not very technical, so it would be nice if they could have
> an easy method to train their own DBs.
>
> I envisioned that a "user@domain.com" user could forward said mail to
> something like "learn-spam!user@domain.com" (forward to themselves, with
> instructions) to train SA. Naturally also "learn-ham!user@domain.com". The
> syntax/method is not so important.
>
> I would imagine I could do this in procmail, but I would have to make sure:
>
> 1) Procmail drops the enclosing email, which is from the user themselves, so
> that isn't part of the training.
>
> 2) The spam/ham email might be inline, or attached, so deal with both.
>
> Already been done? Or just plain bad idea?
>
> Ultimately, it would be nice if there was a global DB that I/sysadmin to
> could train, as well as, each user's own DB that they train. That way I can
> globally add spam when I am sure that it is spam.
I think this covers what you need:
http://www.stearns.org/doc/spamassassin-setup.current.html#autoreporting
Cheers,
- Bill
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
"If you think technology can solve your security problems, then
you don't understand the problems and you don't understand the
technology."
-- Bruce Schneier, Secrets and Lies
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
William Stearns (wstearns@pobox.com). Mason, Buildkernel, freedups, p0f,
rsync-backup, ssh-keyinstall, dns-check, more at: http://www.stearns.org
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Re: Forward to learn spam and ham?
Posted by mouss <us...@free.fr>.
Jorgen Lundman a écrit :
>
> I would assume someone has already solved this, but it seems hard to
> search for.
>
> I would like to setup SA site wide, so that all the users can use it.
> However, users are not very technical, so it would be nice if they
> could have an easy method to train their own DBs.
>
> I envisioned that a "user@domain.com" user could forward said mail to
> something like "learn-spam!user@domain.com" (forward to themselves,
> with instructions) to train SA. Naturally also
> "learn-ham!user@domain.com". The syntax/method is not so important.
you can also use a transport: user just submits spam/ham to
spam@example.com and ham@example.com respectively. This has been
discussed recently (last month?). this way you don't need procmail at all.
>
> I would imagine I could do this in procmail, but I would have to make
> sure:
>
> 1) Procmail drops the enclosing email, which is from the user
> themselves, so that isn't part of the training.
>
> 2) The spam/ham email might be inline, or attached, so deal with both.
the real problem is that the resubmitted message will differ from the
original message. most people only know to do classical "forward".
- if the user's MUA supports resend/bounce/forward as attachment, then
you can
- you can ask them to view source -> copy -> paste .... Not very user
friendly (and people will generally forget, so don't count on that)
- imap users can move/copy message to specific folders
- webmail users can have specific buttons.
I don't know if there is a way to train using only the body (well, some
mime parts may have been removed by the MUA...).
An overkill way is to keep a copy of all mail, then when users forwards
a spam/ham, find it. either use msg-id (if MUA puts it in References)+a
combination of other headers/fields; or use a local ID that you insert
at delivery time (and hope it won't be removed by the MUA. so X headers
won't work for instance). putting such an ID in the body requires
correct handling of mime parts (and will pollute the message....).
[dspam does so].
>
> Already been done? Or just plain bad idea?
>
> Ultimately, it would be nice if there was a global DB that I/sysadmin
> to could train, as well as, each user's own DB that they train. That
> way I can globally add spam when I am sure that it is spam.
>
for spam, you can setup trap addresses. The problem is for ham.