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Posted to dev@netbeans.apache.org by Geertjan Wielenga <ge...@googlemail.com.INVALID> on 2018/12/23 09:45:46 UTC

Installer for NetBeans bundled with the JDK

Hi all,

Good news, Reema has provided the sources and instructions for creating an
installer for NetBeans together with the JDK:

https://github.com/apache/incubator-netbeans/pull/1052

Would be great if someone would try out the instructions and add
comments/insights to the PR above.

Thanks,

Gj

Re: Installer for NetBeans bundled with the JDK

Posted by Emilian Bold <em...@gmail.com>.
Oh, I didn't know the Apache rules about GPL don't apply to convenience
binaries.

--emi

On Sun, 23 Dec 2018 at 14:23, Geertjan Wielenga
<ge...@googlemail.com.invalid> wrote:

> Apache only releases source files.
>
> Just like the NetBeans binaries, an installer (bundled or not), is a
> convenience binary.
>
> Gj
>
> On Sun, Dec 23, 2018 at 12:19 PM Emilian Bold <em...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > Oh, that's a pretty big PR. I will try it next week and see if I can
> > create an installer.
> >
> > PS: Are we even allowed to bundle a JDK under Apache?
> >
> > --emi
> >
> > http://coolbeans.xyz/ - CoolBeans: An IDE for Java, JavaEE, PHP and
> more!
> >
> > On Sun, Dec 23, 2018 at 11:46 AM Geertjan Wielenga
> > <ge...@googlemail.com.invalid> wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi all,
> > >
> > > Good news, Reema has provided the sources and instructions for creating
> > an
> > > installer for NetBeans together with the JDK:
> > >
> > > https://github.com/apache/incubator-netbeans/pull/1052
> > >
> > > Would be great if someone would try out the instructions and add
> > > comments/insights to the PR above.
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > >
> > > Gj
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
> >
> > For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
> > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
-- 
--emi

Re: Installer for NetBeans bundled with the JDK

Posted by Emilian Bold <em...@gmail.com>.
But if you add them after the fact who vets for them? I imagine there
must still be some checks to see that the binary was produced from a
voted source and that the binary works or something. This means some
sort of (P)PMC vote the least to me. Or do we handle this on private@?

--emi

http://coolbeans.xyz/ - CoolBeans: An IDE for Java, JavaEE, PHP and more!

On Thu, Dec 27, 2018 at 1:58 AM Daniel Gruno <hu...@apache.org> wrote:
>
> On 12/26/18 11:56 AM, Emilian Bold wrote:
> >>> 1. If we were to create an installer for installing Apache NetBeans (i.e.,
> >>> no JDK included, simply for installing NetBeans), could we distribute that
> >>> from our Apache NetBeans site?
> >>
> >> See http://www.apache.org/legal/release-policy.html#compiled-packages
> >> You can, with various notices and caveats in mind, create convenience
> >> binaries, but the project cannot vote on them for obvious reasons, nor
> >> do they count as an official release. There are signing options
> >> available for packages as well.
> >
> > I read there that "binary/bytecode packages MAY be distributed
> > alongside official Apache releases". So the packages must also be
> > available on Apache infrastructure.
> >
> > It doesn't mention if we can publish binaries after a release. For
> > example, we have another thread about publishing Ubuntu Snap packages,
> > but those binaries were not part of the release email vote thread, nor
> > are they on dist.apache.org. If we can't vote on new binaries, do we
> > need another release to publish new binaries?
>
> Convenience binaries are not part of the official project release, you
> could add them whenever, provided you remember to properly let people
> know that they are not what we consider official releases.
>
> the TL;DR of this discussion is; you cannot vote on something you cannot
> verify, so convenience binaries, while they may be distributed via our
> mirror system, are not part of the official release, and as such, you
> could add them after the fact.
>
> >
> >>> 3. What's the status in legal terms of Emilian's CoolBeans, i.e., can
> >>> anyone take Apache NetBeans source code at any point of the release and
> >>> rename it and then provide it in their own way? (I'm assuming Yes here, but
> >>> would be good to have that very clearly established.)
> >>
> >> Yes, provided they keep the notices intact and do their best to prevent
> >> confusion between their fork and the official product.
> >
> > Cool! ;-)
> >
> > --emi
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
> >
> > For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
> > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists
> >
> >
> >
>
>
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>
>
>

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Re: Installer for NetBeans bundled with the JDK

Posted by Daniel Gruno <hu...@apache.org>.
On 12/26/18 11:56 AM, Emilian Bold wrote:
>>> 1. If we were to create an installer for installing Apache NetBeans (i.e.,
>>> no JDK included, simply for installing NetBeans), could we distribute that
>>> from our Apache NetBeans site?
>>
>> See http://www.apache.org/legal/release-policy.html#compiled-packages
>> You can, with various notices and caveats in mind, create convenience
>> binaries, but the project cannot vote on them for obvious reasons, nor
>> do they count as an official release. There are signing options
>> available for packages as well.
> 
> I read there that "binary/bytecode packages MAY be distributed
> alongside official Apache releases". So the packages must also be
> available on Apache infrastructure.
> 
> It doesn't mention if we can publish binaries after a release. For
> example, we have another thread about publishing Ubuntu Snap packages,
> but those binaries were not part of the release email vote thread, nor
> are they on dist.apache.org. If we can't vote on new binaries, do we
> need another release to publish new binaries?

Convenience binaries are not part of the official project release, you 
could add them whenever, provided you remember to properly let people 
know that they are not what we consider official releases.

the TL;DR of this discussion is; you cannot vote on something you cannot 
verify, so convenience binaries, while they may be distributed via our 
mirror system, are not part of the official release, and as such, you 
could add them after the fact.

> 
>>> 3. What's the status in legal terms of Emilian's CoolBeans, i.e., can
>>> anyone take Apache NetBeans source code at any point of the release and
>>> rename it and then provide it in their own way? (I'm assuming Yes here, but
>>> would be good to have that very clearly established.)
>>
>> Yes, provided they keep the notices intact and do their best to prevent
>> confusion between their fork and the official product.
> 
> Cool! ;-)
> 
> --emi
> 
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
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> 
> For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists
> 
> 
> 


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Re: Installer for NetBeans bundled with the JDK

Posted by Laszlo Kishalmi <la...@gmail.com>.
Yet another sideline, right now we are uploading the nbm-s to the apache 
dist repository, signed and checksumed.
Of course we are serving them from there using redirects on our 
netbeans-vm. But we are a bit standing out with that.

Producing 650+ signed binaries per release. Is it the right way to do that?

https://checker.apache.org/projs/incubator.html (check Emilian and me)

On 12/26/18 2:56 AM, Emilian Bold wrote:
>>> 1. If we were to create an installer for installing Apache NetBeans (i.e.,
>>> no JDK included, simply for installing NetBeans), could we distribute that
>>> from our Apache NetBeans site?
>> See http://www.apache.org/legal/release-policy.html#compiled-packages
>> You can, with various notices and caveats in mind, create convenience
>> binaries, but the project cannot vote on them for obvious reasons, nor
>> do they count as an official release. There are signing options
>> available for packages as well.
> I read there that "binary/bytecode packages MAY be distributed
> alongside official Apache releases". So the packages must also be
> available on Apache infrastructure.
>
> It doesn't mention if we can publish binaries after a release. For
> example, we have another thread about publishing Ubuntu Snap packages,
> but those binaries were not part of the release email vote thread, nor
> are they on dist.apache.org. If we can't vote on new binaries, do we
> need another release to publish new binaries?
>
>>> 3. What's the status in legal terms of Emilian's CoolBeans, i.e., can
>>> anyone take Apache NetBeans source code at any point of the release and
>>> rename it and then provide it in their own way? (I'm assuming Yes here, but
>>> would be good to have that very clearly established.)
>> Yes, provided they keep the notices intact and do their best to prevent
>> confusion between their fork and the official product.
> Cool! ;-)
>
> --emi
>
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>
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> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists
>
>
>

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Re: Installer for NetBeans bundled with the JDK

Posted by Emilian Bold <em...@gmail.com>.
> > 1. If we were to create an installer for installing Apache NetBeans (i.e.,
> > no JDK included, simply for installing NetBeans), could we distribute that
> > from our Apache NetBeans site?
>
> See http://www.apache.org/legal/release-policy.html#compiled-packages
> You can, with various notices and caveats in mind, create convenience
> binaries, but the project cannot vote on them for obvious reasons, nor
> do they count as an official release. There are signing options
> available for packages as well.

I read there that "binary/bytecode packages MAY be distributed
alongside official Apache releases". So the packages must also be
available on Apache infrastructure.

It doesn't mention if we can publish binaries after a release. For
example, we have another thread about publishing Ubuntu Snap packages,
but those binaries were not part of the release email vote thread, nor
are they on dist.apache.org. If we can't vote on new binaries, do we
need another release to publish new binaries?

> > 3. What's the status in legal terms of Emilian's CoolBeans, i.e., can
> > anyone take Apache NetBeans source code at any point of the release and
> > rename it and then provide it in their own way? (I'm assuming Yes here, but
> > would be good to have that very clearly established.)
>
> Yes, provided they keep the notices intact and do their best to prevent
> confusion between their fork and the official product.

Cool! ;-)

--emi

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Re: Installer for NetBeans bundled with the JDK

Posted by Emilian Bold <em...@gmail.com>.
>> 2. Can Oracle or Amazon etc take NetBeans and then create an installer for
>> its JDK and include NetBeans in that installer?

>Yes, that's one of the main points of ALv2 :) Anyone can use/reuse our
>software as they see fit, as long as they respect our trademarks,
>patents, naming conventions etc.

PS: But can Oracle do a JDK + NetBeans 'bundle' (or something that
adds a few Oracle-specific modules)? I assume they can't release
something called 'NetBeans', correct?

--emi

http://coolbeans.xyz/ - CoolBeans: An IDE for Java, JavaEE, PHP and more!

On Wed, Dec 26, 2018 at 11:39 AM Daniel Gruno <hu...@apache.org> wrote:
>
> On 12/26/18 10:30 AM, Geertjan Wielenga wrote:
> > So, there's a couple of questions, do we need to start LEGAL issues for
> > these:
>
> No, look up the answers - it's been asked a thousand times over the years :)
>
> >
> > 1. If we were to create an installer for installing Apache NetBeans (i.e.,
> > no JDK included, simply for installing NetBeans), could we distribute that
> > from our Apache NetBeans site?
>
> See http://www.apache.org/legal/release-policy.html#compiled-packages
> You can, with various notices and caveats in mind, create convenience
> binaries, but the project cannot vote on them for obvious reasons, nor
> do they count as an official release. There are signing options
> available for packages as well.
>
> >
> > 2. Can Oracle or Amazon etc take NetBeans and then create an installer for
> > its JDK and include NetBeans in that installer?
>
> Yes, that's one of the main points of ALv2 :) Anyone can use/reuse our
> software as they see fit, as long as they respect our trademarks,
> patents, naming conventions etc.
>
> >
> > 3. What's the status in legal terms of Emilian's CoolBeans, i.e., can
> > anyone take Apache NetBeans source code at any point of the release and
> > rename it and then provide it in their own way? (I'm assuming Yes here, but
> > would be good to have that very clearly established.)
>
> Yes, provided they keep the notices intact and do their best to prevent
> confusion between their fork and the official product.
>
> >
> > Gj
> >
> >
> >
> > On Mon, Dec 24, 2018 at 12:33 PM Neil C Smith <ne...@apache.org> wrote:
> >
> >> On Mon, 24 Dec 2018, 10:18 Oliver Rettig <Oliver.Rettig@orat.de wrote:
> >>
> >>> Should'nt it be possible to create an installer with the nb-installer
> >>> infrastructure which can
> >>> download a JDK?
> >>>
> >>
> >> How are you going to run a Java-based installer to download a JDK if you
> >> don't have a JDK?
> >>
> >> Even in PraxisLIVE where I can and do bundle a JDK I'm no longer using the
> >> nb-installer infrastructure - too many useful features missing.
> >>
> >> Best wishes,
> >>
> >> Neil
> >>
> >>>
> >>
> >
>
>
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>
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> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists
>
>
>

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Re: Installer for NetBeans bundled with the JDK

Posted by Geertjan Wielenga <ge...@googlemail.com.INVALID>.
Following on from this, it seems like there's going to be multiple
different installers and so on, i.e., one for Windows was introduced on the
mailing list today, there's also CoolBeans (coolbeans.xyz) with its
installer, and there's installer sources being worked on in a PR in Apache
NetBeans GitHub.

Should we simply list all these different options on the download page
(together with the Mac OSX installer solution that I saw floating around
via Twitter a day or two ago)?

Gj


On Wed, Dec 26, 2018 at 10:39 AM Daniel Gruno <hu...@apache.org> wrote:

> On 12/26/18 10:30 AM, Geertjan Wielenga wrote:
> > So, there's a couple of questions, do we need to start LEGAL issues for
> > these:
>
> No, look up the answers - it's been asked a thousand times over the years
> :)
>
> >
> > 1. If we were to create an installer for installing Apache NetBeans
> (i.e.,
> > no JDK included, simply for installing NetBeans), could we distribute
> that
> > from our Apache NetBeans site?
>
> See http://www.apache.org/legal/release-policy.html#compiled-packages
> You can, with various notices and caveats in mind, create convenience
> binaries, but the project cannot vote on them for obvious reasons, nor
> do they count as an official release. There are signing options
> available for packages as well.
>
> >
> > 2. Can Oracle or Amazon etc take NetBeans and then create an installer
> for
> > its JDK and include NetBeans in that installer?
>
> Yes, that's one of the main points of ALv2 :) Anyone can use/reuse our
> software as they see fit, as long as they respect our trademarks,
> patents, naming conventions etc.
>
> >
> > 3. What's the status in legal terms of Emilian's CoolBeans, i.e., can
> > anyone take Apache NetBeans source code at any point of the release and
> > rename it and then provide it in their own way? (I'm assuming Yes here,
> but
> > would be good to have that very clearly established.)
>
> Yes, provided they keep the notices intact and do their best to prevent
> confusion between their fork and the official product.
>
> >
> > Gj
> >
> >
> >
> > On Mon, Dec 24, 2018 at 12:33 PM Neil C Smith <ne...@apache.org>
> wrote:
> >
> >> On Mon, 24 Dec 2018, 10:18 Oliver Rettig <Oliver.Rettig@orat.de wrote:
> >>
> >>> Should'nt it be possible to create an installer with the nb-installer
> >>> infrastructure which can
> >>> download a JDK?
> >>>
> >>
> >> How are you going to run a Java-based installer to download a JDK if you
> >> don't have a JDK?
> >>
> >> Even in PraxisLIVE where I can and do bundle a JDK I'm no longer using
> the
> >> nb-installer infrastructure - too many useful features missing.
> >>
> >> Best wishes,
> >>
> >> Neil
> >>
> >>>
> >>
> >
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
>
> For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists
>
>
>
>

Re: Installer for NetBeans bundled with the JDK

Posted by Daniel Gruno <hu...@apache.org>.
On 12/26/18 10:30 AM, Geertjan Wielenga wrote:
> So, there's a couple of questions, do we need to start LEGAL issues for
> these:

No, look up the answers - it's been asked a thousand times over the years :)

> 
> 1. If we were to create an installer for installing Apache NetBeans (i.e.,
> no JDK included, simply for installing NetBeans), could we distribute that
> from our Apache NetBeans site?

See http://www.apache.org/legal/release-policy.html#compiled-packages
You can, with various notices and caveats in mind, create convenience 
binaries, but the project cannot vote on them for obvious reasons, nor 
do they count as an official release. There are signing options 
available for packages as well.

> 
> 2. Can Oracle or Amazon etc take NetBeans and then create an installer for
> its JDK and include NetBeans in that installer?

Yes, that's one of the main points of ALv2 :) Anyone can use/reuse our 
software as they see fit, as long as they respect our trademarks, 
patents, naming conventions etc.

> 
> 3. What's the status in legal terms of Emilian's CoolBeans, i.e., can
> anyone take Apache NetBeans source code at any point of the release and
> rename it and then provide it in their own way? (I'm assuming Yes here, but
> would be good to have that very clearly established.)

Yes, provided they keep the notices intact and do their best to prevent 
confusion between their fork and the official product.

> 
> Gj
> 
> 
> 
> On Mon, Dec 24, 2018 at 12:33 PM Neil C Smith <ne...@apache.org> wrote:
> 
>> On Mon, 24 Dec 2018, 10:18 Oliver Rettig <Oliver.Rettig@orat.de wrote:
>>
>>> Should'nt it be possible to create an installer with the nb-installer
>>> infrastructure which can
>>> download a JDK?
>>>
>>
>> How are you going to run a Java-based installer to download a JDK if you
>> don't have a JDK?
>>
>> Even in PraxisLIVE where I can and do bundle a JDK I'm no longer using the
>> nb-installer infrastructure - too many useful features missing.
>>
>> Best wishes,
>>
>> Neil
>>
>>>
>>
> 


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Re: Installer for NetBeans bundled with the JDK

Posted by Geertjan Wielenga <ge...@googlemail.com.INVALID>.
So, there's a couple of questions, do we need to start LEGAL issues for
these:

1. If we were to create an installer for installing Apache NetBeans (i.e.,
no JDK included, simply for installing NetBeans), could we distribute that
from our Apache NetBeans site?

2. Can Oracle or Amazon etc take NetBeans and then create an installer for
its JDK and include NetBeans in that installer?

3. What's the status in legal terms of Emilian's CoolBeans, i.e., can
anyone take Apache NetBeans source code at any point of the release and
rename it and then provide it in their own way? (I'm assuming Yes here, but
would be good to have that very clearly established.)

Gj



On Mon, Dec 24, 2018 at 12:33 PM Neil C Smith <ne...@apache.org> wrote:

> On Mon, 24 Dec 2018, 10:18 Oliver Rettig <Oliver.Rettig@orat.de wrote:
>
> > Should'nt it be possible to create an installer with the nb-installer
> > infrastructure which can
> > download a JDK?
> >
>
> How are you going to run a Java-based installer to download a JDK if you
> don't have a JDK?
>
> Even in PraxisLIVE where I can and do bundle a JDK I'm no longer using the
> nb-installer infrastructure - too many useful features missing.
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Neil
>
> >
>

Re: Installer for NetBeans bundled with the JDK

Posted by Neil C Smith <ne...@apache.org>.
On Mon, 24 Dec 2018, 10:18 Oliver Rettig <Oliver.Rettig@orat.de wrote:

> Should'nt it be possible to create an installer with the nb-installer
> infrastructure which can
> download a JDK?
>

How are you going to run a Java-based installer to download a JDK if you
don't have a JDK?

Even in PraxisLIVE where I can and do bundle a JDK I'm no longer using the
nb-installer infrastructure - too many useful features missing.

Best wishes,

Neil

>

Re: Installer for NetBeans bundled with the JDK

Posted by Oliver Rettig <Ol...@orat.de>.
Hi Neil, 

why do you prefer non-java-based installers? 

Should'nt it be possible to create an installer with the nb-installer infrastructure which can 
download a JDK? For my nb platform apps I bundle a JDK. I think also others should be 
interested in creating installers with downloading the JDK as an Option. 
Maybe a very small java-runtime can be created to run the nb-installer first.

best regards
Oliver
> On Sun, 23 Dec 2018 at 12:44, Matthias Bläsing
> 
> <mb...@doppel-helix.eu> wrote:
> > The installer might be bundled (if build from donated code). A JDK
> > (that was Emilians question) is a different beast.
> 
> Personally I'd be more interested in looking into non-Java-based
> installers (eg. InnoSetup on Windows) that could download a JDK as an
> optional part of the installation process.
> 
> Although I do hope there's a shift in Apache policy towards bundling
> "system" dependencies that are rapidly becoming the opposite!
> 
> Best wishes,
> 
> Neil
> 
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Re: Installer for NetBeans bundled with the JDK

Posted by Erik Östlund <er...@gmail.com>.
I think using the Microsoft Store could be an interesting option. We could
package NetBeans with a dedicated JDK and ensure that they are both
up-to-date AND compatible with each other. It would basically be a
one-click process for new users to get started. I like the route Ubuntu has
taken by providing LTS and non-LTS-packages on the Microsoft Store. We
would do something similar with NetBeans and ship LTS-packages based on
Java 11 while the non-LTS-packages get their Java versions incremented
every six months.

Den sön 23 dec. 2018 kl 20:50 skrev Emilian Bold <em...@gmail.com>:

> Ideally I would like Apache to make some policy changes. But now I
> also have a way to do what I believe it's best for the users and the
> end product regardless of what Apache decides.
>
> InnoSetup is good enough for a Windows installer. I guess it's
> possible to download the JDK as part of the installation but what I
> care most is how to update the bundled JDK! I have an idea here but
> need time to experiment.
>
> --emi
>
> http://coolbeans.xyz/ - CoolBeans: An IDE for Java, JavaEE, PHP and more!
> On Sun, Dec 23, 2018 at 4:29 PM Neil C Smith <ne...@apache.org>
> wrote:
> >
> > On Sun, 23 Dec 2018 at 12:44, Matthias Bläsing
> > <mb...@doppel-helix.eu> wrote:
> > > The installer might be bundled (if build from donated code). A JDK
> > > (that was Emilians question) is a different beast.
> >
> > Personally I'd be more interested in looking into non-Java-based
> > installers (eg. InnoSetup on Windows) that could download a JDK as an
> > optional part of the installation process.
> >
> > Although I do hope there's a shift in Apache policy towards bundling
> > "system" dependencies that are rapidly becoming the opposite!
> >
> > Best wishes,
> >
> > Neil
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
> >
> > For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
> > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists
> >
> >
> >
>
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>
>
>
>

Re: Installer for NetBeans bundled with the JDK

Posted by Emilian Bold <em...@gmail.com>.
Ideally I would like Apache to make some policy changes. But now I
also have a way to do what I believe it's best for the users and the
end product regardless of what Apache decides.

InnoSetup is good enough for a Windows installer. I guess it's
possible to download the JDK as part of the installation but what I
care most is how to update the bundled JDK! I have an idea here but
need time to experiment.

--emi

http://coolbeans.xyz/ - CoolBeans: An IDE for Java, JavaEE, PHP and more!
On Sun, Dec 23, 2018 at 4:29 PM Neil C Smith <ne...@apache.org> wrote:
>
> On Sun, 23 Dec 2018 at 12:44, Matthias Bläsing
> <mb...@doppel-helix.eu> wrote:
> > The installer might be bundled (if build from donated code). A JDK
> > (that was Emilians question) is a different beast.
>
> Personally I'd be more interested in looking into non-Java-based
> installers (eg. InnoSetup on Windows) that could download a JDK as an
> optional part of the installation process.
>
> Although I do hope there's a shift in Apache policy towards bundling
> "system" dependencies that are rapidly becoming the opposite!
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Neil
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
>
> For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists
>
>
>

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Re: Installer for NetBeans bundled with the JDK

Posted by Neil C Smith <ne...@apache.org>.
On Sun, 23 Dec 2018 at 12:44, Matthias Bläsing
<mb...@doppel-helix.eu> wrote:
> The installer might be bundled (if build from donated code). A JDK
> (that was Emilians question) is a different beast.

Personally I'd be more interested in looking into non-Java-based
installers (eg. InnoSetup on Windows) that could download a JDK as an
optional part of the installation process.

Although I do hope there's a shift in Apache policy towards bundling
"system" dependencies that are rapidly becoming the opposite!

Best wishes,

Neil

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Re: Installer for NetBeans bundled with the JDK

Posted by Emilian Bold <em...@gmail.com>.
Well, this opens another discussion. I don't believe Oracle or Amazon could
'bundle' NetBeans for trademark reasons.

They could, of course, create their own IDE based on Apache NetBeans.

--emi

On Sun, 23 Dec 2018 at 15:08, Geertjan Wielenga
<ge...@googlemail.com.invalid> wrote:

> Oracle itseld could bundle NetBeans with its JDK, and/or Amazon with its
> JDK, and/or Azul, etc. The sources they’d need for doing that would be in
> the Apache NetBeans Github repo thanks to Reema’s PR.
>
> Gj
>
> On Sunday, December 23, 2018, Matthias Bläsing <mb...@doppel-helix.eu>
> wrote:
>
> > Hey Geertjan,
> >
> > Am Sonntag, den 23.12.2018, 13:17 +0100 schrieb Geertjan Wielenga:
> > >
> > > Just like the NetBeans binaries, an installer (bundled or not), is a
> > > convenience binary.
> > >
> >
> > The installer might be bundled (if build from donated code). A JDK
> > (that was Emilians question) is a different beast.
> >
> > My reading is, that the apache foundation won't accept GPL*/GPL-2-CP
> > binaries in files distributed by it. That means we can't create a
> > bundled release.
> >
> > That won't stop other though. An external project could create binaries
> > based on the Apache Netbeans source, that:
> >
> >  * bundles nb-javac (GPL-2-CP)
> >  * bundles a JDK (plain OpenJDK, Azul JDK, Corretto should all be GPL-
> >    2-CP)
> >  * bundles JavaFX (GPL-2-CP)
> >
> > Greetings
> >
> > Matthias
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
> >
> > For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
> > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
-- 
--emi

Re: Installer for NetBeans bundled with the JDK

Posted by Geertjan Wielenga <ge...@googlemail.com.INVALID>.
Oracle itseld could bundle NetBeans with its JDK, and/or Amazon with its
JDK, and/or Azul, etc. The sources they’d need for doing that would be in
the Apache NetBeans Github repo thanks to Reema’s PR.

Gj

On Sunday, December 23, 2018, Matthias Bläsing <mb...@doppel-helix.eu>
wrote:

> Hey Geertjan,
>
> Am Sonntag, den 23.12.2018, 13:17 +0100 schrieb Geertjan Wielenga:
> >
> > Just like the NetBeans binaries, an installer (bundled or not), is a
> > convenience binary.
> >
>
> The installer might be bundled (if build from donated code). A JDK
> (that was Emilians question) is a different beast.
>
> My reading is, that the apache foundation won't accept GPL*/GPL-2-CP
> binaries in files distributed by it. That means we can't create a
> bundled release.
>
> That won't stop other though. An external project could create binaries
> based on the Apache Netbeans source, that:
>
>  * bundles nb-javac (GPL-2-CP)
>  * bundles a JDK (plain OpenJDK, Azul JDK, Corretto should all be GPL-
>    2-CP)
>  * bundles JavaFX (GPL-2-CP)
>
> Greetings
>
> Matthias
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
>
> For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists
>
>
>
>

Re: Installer for NetBeans bundled with the JDK

Posted by Matthias Bläsing <mb...@doppel-helix.eu>.
Hey Geertjan,

Am Sonntag, den 23.12.2018, 13:17 +0100 schrieb Geertjan Wielenga:
> 
> Just like the NetBeans binaries, an installer (bundled or not), is a
> convenience binary.
> 

The installer might be bundled (if build from donated code). A JDK
(that was Emilians question) is a different beast.

My reading is, that the apache foundation won't accept GPL*/GPL-2-CP
binaries in files distributed by it. That means we can't create a
bundled release.

That won't stop other though. An external project could create binaries
based on the Apache Netbeans source, that:

 * bundles nb-javac (GPL-2-CP)
 * bundles a JDK (plain OpenJDK, Azul JDK, Corretto should all be GPL-
   2-CP)
 * bundles JavaFX (GPL-2-CP)

Greetings

Matthias


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Re: Installer for NetBeans bundled with the JDK

Posted by Geertjan Wielenga <ge...@googlemail.com.INVALID>.
Apache only releases source files.

Just like the NetBeans binaries, an installer (bundled or not), is a
convenience binary.

Gj

On Sun, Dec 23, 2018 at 12:19 PM Emilian Bold <em...@gmail.com>
wrote:

> Oh, that's a pretty big PR. I will try it next week and see if I can
> create an installer.
>
> PS: Are we even allowed to bundle a JDK under Apache?
>
> --emi
>
> http://coolbeans.xyz/ - CoolBeans: An IDE for Java, JavaEE, PHP and more!
>
> On Sun, Dec 23, 2018 at 11:46 AM Geertjan Wielenga
> <ge...@googlemail.com.invalid> wrote:
> >
> > Hi all,
> >
> > Good news, Reema has provided the sources and instructions for creating
> an
> > installer for NetBeans together with the JDK:
> >
> > https://github.com/apache/incubator-netbeans/pull/1052
> >
> > Would be great if someone would try out the instructions and add
> > comments/insights to the PR above.
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Gj
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
>
> For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists
>
>
>
>

Re: Installer for NetBeans bundled with the JDK

Posted by Emilian Bold <em...@gmail.com>.
Oh, that's a pretty big PR. I will try it next week and see if I can
create an installer.

PS: Are we even allowed to bundle a JDK under Apache?

--emi

http://coolbeans.xyz/ - CoolBeans: An IDE for Java, JavaEE, PHP and more!

On Sun, Dec 23, 2018 at 11:46 AM Geertjan Wielenga
<ge...@googlemail.com.invalid> wrote:
>
> Hi all,
>
> Good news, Reema has provided the sources and instructions for creating an
> installer for NetBeans together with the JDK:
>
> https://github.com/apache/incubator-netbeans/pull/1052
>
> Would be great if someone would try out the instructions and add
> comments/insights to the PR above.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Gj

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