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Posted to dev@commons.apache.org by Paul Hammant <pa...@yahoo.com> on 2003/06/08 13:11:01 UTC
Re:_Commons-Attributes_(sandbox)_and_Jon_Tirs�n.
Well I volunteer to help this get promoted out of sandbox. I've done work on it before (pairing
with James Strachan - which he never committed - grumble grumble ;)
Jon, that sound good to you ?
- Paul
--- robert burrell donkin <ro...@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote: > i'm against nominating
committers for work on sandbox components.
>
> (apache committers should just be able to request karma and then check
> with the current committers that it's ok to join the fun.)
>
> if jon is an existing apache committer then he needs to post a request to
> the pmc cc'ing commons-dev giving some brief indications of his plans. we
> should then be able to sort out karma with infrastructure.
>
> IMHO if jon is not then the best solution would be for an existing apache
> committer to volunteer (yourself, maybe) to lead an effort to push
> attributes forward to a stage where it's ready for promotion to the common
> proper.
>
> BTW are there any copyright issues associated with the Nanning code?
>
> - robert
>
> On Sunday, June 8, 2003, at 11:33 AM, Paul Hammant wrote:
>
> > Jon has been working on attributes inside Nanning's CVS. The code we have
> > (which is really) good
> > is an earlier fork of that. Is there any way we can get Jon commit provs
> > here? The version in
> > Nanning is much more advanced than the version he donated to us earlier.
> >
> > If we can get some consensus, I think a vote may be a good idea. Surely
> > he must qualify on the
> > multi-month patch donator principle?
> >
> > - Paul
> >
> > __________________________________________________
> > Yahoo! Plus - For a better Internet experience
> > http://uk.promotions.yahoo.com/yplus/yoffer.html
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: commons-dev-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: commons-dev-help@jakarta.apache.org
> >
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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>
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Re: _Commons-Attributes_(sandbox)_and_Jon_Tirsén.
Posted by Juozas Baliuka <ba...@centras.lt>.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jon Tirsén" <jo...@tirsen.com>
To: "Jakarta Commons Developers List" <co...@jakarta.apache.org>
Sent: Sunday, June 08, 2003 9:58 PM
Subject: Re: _Commons-Attributes_(sandbox)_and_Jon_Tirsén.
> Why implement something that's JSR175-compliant? That's gonna be part of
> JDK1.5 anyway. Besides it's probably not doable since it requires a
> language-change.
>
> Attrib4J and JSR175 has tons of extra stuff where I've always seen
> commons-attributes (and Nanning) as extremely simplistic, ie named
> attributes whose values are strings.
I prefer to use strings for attributes too, It helps to use implementation
without external files,
parse at runtime and use source file as resource itself.
>
> In my experience this has been very useful and for a very small
> price-tag (both when it comes to learning the API, and of course
> implementing it).
>
> I don't see the point of putting commons-attributes in this direction
> (but it's not my decision to make). Why not just do it in attrib4j which
> has that intent? If it necessarily has to be a Jakarta-project why not
> start another one?
>
> On Sun, 2003-06-08 at 14:48, Ryan Hoegg wrote:
> > I have e-mailed briefly with Mark Pollack of attrib4j.sourceforge.net.
> > It seems some work needs to be done to support JSR175 for both
> > commons-attributes and attrib4j. The main difference Jon and Mark have
> > so far is the Attribute interface, where Mark would rather not have
> > String properties for Name and Value.
> >
> > One interesting thing about attrib4j is that it stores its attributes in
> > the class file instead of a separate properties file. I think that
> > since the attribute storage mechanism is already abstracted in the
> > current commons-attributes through the DefaultAttributeFinder and
> > DefaultAttributeCompiler, it would make sense to agree on a common
> > interface and create multiple implementations.
> >
> > I am currently a committer on ws.apache.org/xmlrpc. Can I help?
> >
> > --
> > Ryan Hoegg
> > ISIS Networks
> > http://www.isisnetworks.net
> >
> > Paul Hammant wrote:
> >
> > >Well I volunteer to help this get promoted out of sandbox. I've done
work on it before (pairing
> > >with James Strachan - which he never committed - grumble grumble ;)
> > >
> > >Jon, that sound good to you ?
> > >
> > >- Paul
> > >
> > > --- robert burrell donkin <ro...@blueyonder.co.uk>
wrote: > i'm against nominating
> > >committers for work on sandbox components.
> > >
> > >
> > >>(apache committers should just be able to request karma and then check
> > >>with the current committers that it's ok to join the fun.)
> > >>
> > >>if jon is an existing apache committer then he needs to post a request
to
> > >>the pmc cc'ing commons-dev giving some brief indications of his plans.
we
> > >>should then be able to sort out karma with infrastructure.
> > >>
> > >>IMHO if jon is not then the best solution would be for an existing
apache
> > >>committer to volunteer (yourself, maybe) to lead an effort to push
> > >>attributes forward to a stage where it's ready for promotion to the
common
> > >>proper.
> > >>
> > >>BTW are there any copyright issues associated with the Nanning code?
> > >>
> > >>- robert
> > >>
> > >>On Sunday, June 8, 2003, at 11:33 AM, Paul Hammant wrote:
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>>Jon has been working on attributes inside Nanning's CVS. The code we
have
> > >>>(which is really) good
> > >>>is an earlier fork of that. Is there any way we can get Jon commit
provs
> > >>>here? The version in
> > >>>Nanning is much more advanced than the version he donated to us
earlier.
> > >>>
> > >>>If we can get some consensus, I think a vote may be a good idea.
Surely
> > >>>he must qualify on the
> > >>>multi-month patch donator principle?
> > >>>
> > >>>- Paul
> > >>>
> > >>>__________________________________________________
> > >>>Yahoo! Plus - For a better Internet experience
> > >>>http://uk.promotions.yahoo.com/yplus/yoffer.html
> > >>>
> > >>>
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: commons-dev-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: commons-dev-help@jakarta.apache.org
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: commons-dev-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: commons-dev-help@jakarta.apache.org
>
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Re: _Commons-Attributes_(sandbox)_and_Jon_Tirs�n.
Posted by Paul Hammant <pa...@yahoo.com>.
Jon,
My aim would be to see a merge of both forks of your work. Granted we have done work here, but
then so have you. JSK 1.5 is not somthing I'd stop work here for. Nor would I think it is
compelling to merge all OSS attrtibutes efforts.
As I think is you opinion, lets just go for a update to c-a with nanning's features.
Diversity, and multiple choices are great. QDox and XDoclet both exist for different niches, and
high respect for each other.
- Paul
--- Jon Tirsén <jo...@tirsen.com> wrote: > Why implement something that's JSR175-compliant? That's
gonna be part of
> JDK1.5 anyway. Besides it's probably not doable since it requires a
> language-change.
>
> Attrib4J and JSR175 has tons of extra stuff where I've always seen
> commons-attributes (and Nanning) as extremely simplistic, ie named
> attributes whose values are strings.
>
> In my experience this has been very useful and for a very small
> price-tag (both when it comes to learning the API, and of course
> implementing it).
>
> I don't see the point of putting commons-attributes in this direction
> (but it's not my decision to make). Why not just do it in attrib4j which
> has that intent? If it necessarily has to be a Jakarta-project why not
> start another one?
>
> On Sun, 2003-06-08 at 14:48, Ryan Hoegg wrote:
> > I have e-mailed briefly with Mark Pollack of attrib4j.sourceforge.net.
> > It seems some work needs to be done to support JSR175 for both
> > commons-attributes and attrib4j. The main difference Jon and Mark have
> > so far is the Attribute interface, where Mark would rather not have
> > String properties for Name and Value.
> >
> > One interesting thing about attrib4j is that it stores its attributes in
> > the class file instead of a separate properties file. I think that
> > since the attribute storage mechanism is already abstracted in the
> > current commons-attributes through the DefaultAttributeFinder and
> > DefaultAttributeCompiler, it would make sense to agree on a common
> > interface and create multiple implementations.
> >
> > I am currently a committer on ws.apache.org/xmlrpc. Can I help?
> >
> > --
> > Ryan Hoegg
> > ISIS Networks
> > http://www.isisnetworks.net
> >
> > Paul Hammant wrote:
> >
> > >Well I volunteer to help this get promoted out of sandbox. I've done work on it before
> (pairing
> > >with James Strachan - which he never committed - grumble grumble ;)
> > >
> > >Jon, that sound good to you ?
> > >
> > >- Paul
> > >
> > > --- robert burrell donkin <ro...@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote: > i'm against
> nominating
> > >committers for work on sandbox components.
> > >
> > >
> > >>(apache committers should just be able to request karma and then check
> > >>with the current committers that it's ok to join the fun.)
> > >>
> > >>if jon is an existing apache committer then he needs to post a request to
> > >>the pmc cc'ing commons-dev giving some brief indications of his plans. we
> > >>should then be able to sort out karma with infrastructure.
> > >>
> > >>IMHO if jon is not then the best solution would be for an existing apache
> > >>committer to volunteer (yourself, maybe) to lead an effort to push
> > >>attributes forward to a stage where it's ready for promotion to the common
> > >>proper.
> > >>
> > >>BTW are there any copyright issues associated with the Nanning code?
> > >>
> > >>- robert
> > >>
> > >>On Sunday, June 8, 2003, at 11:33 AM, Paul Hammant wrote:
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>>Jon has been working on attributes inside Nanning's CVS. The code we have
> > >>>(which is really) good
> > >>>is an earlier fork of that. Is there any way we can get Jon commit provs
> > >>>here? The version in
> > >>>Nanning is much more advanced than the version he donated to us earlier.
> > >>>
> > >>>If we can get some consensus, I think a vote may be a good idea. Surely
> > >>>he must qualify on the
> > >>>multi-month patch donator principle?
> > >>>
> > >>>- Paul
> > >>>
> > >>>__________________________________________________
> > >>>Yahoo! Plus - For a better Internet experience
> > >>>http://uk.promotions.yahoo.com/yplus/yoffer.html
> > >>>
> > >>>
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: commons-dev-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: commons-dev-help@jakarta.apache.org
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: commons-dev-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: commons-dev-help@jakarta.apache.org
>
__________________________________________________
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Re: _Commons-Attributes_(sandbox)_and_Jon_Tirsén.
Posted by Jon Tirsén <jo...@tirsen.com>.
Why implement something that's JSR175-compliant? That's gonna be part of
JDK1.5 anyway. Besides it's probably not doable since it requires a
language-change.
Attrib4J and JSR175 has tons of extra stuff where I've always seen
commons-attributes (and Nanning) as extremely simplistic, ie named
attributes whose values are strings.
In my experience this has been very useful and for a very small
price-tag (both when it comes to learning the API, and of course
implementing it).
I don't see the point of putting commons-attributes in this direction
(but it's not my decision to make). Why not just do it in attrib4j which
has that intent? If it necessarily has to be a Jakarta-project why not
start another one?
On Sun, 2003-06-08 at 14:48, Ryan Hoegg wrote:
> I have e-mailed briefly with Mark Pollack of attrib4j.sourceforge.net.
> It seems some work needs to be done to support JSR175 for both
> commons-attributes and attrib4j. The main difference Jon and Mark have
> so far is the Attribute interface, where Mark would rather not have
> String properties for Name and Value.
>
> One interesting thing about attrib4j is that it stores its attributes in
> the class file instead of a separate properties file. I think that
> since the attribute storage mechanism is already abstracted in the
> current commons-attributes through the DefaultAttributeFinder and
> DefaultAttributeCompiler, it would make sense to agree on a common
> interface and create multiple implementations.
>
> I am currently a committer on ws.apache.org/xmlrpc. Can I help?
>
> --
> Ryan Hoegg
> ISIS Networks
> http://www.isisnetworks.net
>
> Paul Hammant wrote:
>
> >Well I volunteer to help this get promoted out of sandbox. I've done work on it before (pairing
> >with James Strachan - which he never committed - grumble grumble ;)
> >
> >Jon, that sound good to you ?
> >
> >- Paul
> >
> > --- robert burrell donkin <ro...@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote: > i'm against nominating
> >committers for work on sandbox components.
> >
> >
> >>(apache committers should just be able to request karma and then check
> >>with the current committers that it's ok to join the fun.)
> >>
> >>if jon is an existing apache committer then he needs to post a request to
> >>the pmc cc'ing commons-dev giving some brief indications of his plans. we
> >>should then be able to sort out karma with infrastructure.
> >>
> >>IMHO if jon is not then the best solution would be for an existing apache
> >>committer to volunteer (yourself, maybe) to lead an effort to push
> >>attributes forward to a stage where it's ready for promotion to the common
> >>proper.
> >>
> >>BTW are there any copyright issues associated with the Nanning code?
> >>
> >>- robert
> >>
> >>On Sunday, June 8, 2003, at 11:33 AM, Paul Hammant wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>>Jon has been working on attributes inside Nanning's CVS. The code we have
> >>>(which is really) good
> >>>is an earlier fork of that. Is there any way we can get Jon commit provs
> >>>here? The version in
> >>>Nanning is much more advanced than the version he donated to us earlier.
> >>>
> >>>If we can get some consensus, I think a vote may be a good idea. Surely
> >>>he must qualify on the
> >>>multi-month patch donator principle?
> >>>
> >>>- Paul
> >>>
> >>>__________________________________________________
> >>>Yahoo! Plus - For a better Internet experience
> >>>http://uk.promotions.yahoo.com/yplus/yoffer.html
> >>>
> >>>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: commons-dev-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: commons-dev-help@jakarta.apache.org
---------------------------------------------------------------------
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Re: _Commons-Attributes_(sandbox)_and_
Posted by Ryan Hoegg <rh...@isisnetworks.net>.
robert burrell donkin wrote:
> On Sunday, June 8, 2003, at 03:48 PM, Ryan Hoegg wrote:
>
>> I am currently a committer on ws.apache.org/xmlrpc. Can I help?
>
> like anyone else you can help out as a developer ;)
>
> i'm not an commons-attributes committer, so others will have to answer
> whether they'd be happy to have you on-board as a committer but i can
> probably give you an answer in theory: as a apache committer you can
> now request jakarta-commons-sandbox karma from the jakarta pmc (pmc at
> jakarta.
> apache.org) giving your reasons (maybe something like 'to help out on
> commons-attributes'). please supply your apache user name with the
> request (this makes things easier for infrastructure).
>
> - robert
Sounds good, first I suppose I should talk to the attributes
committers. Before I jump in and start working on merging the
codebases, I should make sure that the commons-attributes committers
want that. In an e-mail from Jon to Mark Pollack and me, it seemed that
he needed some convincing :)
--
Ryan Hoegg
ISIS Networks
http://www.isisnetworks.net
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Re: _Commons-Attributes_(sandbox)_and_Jon_Tirsén.
Posted by robert burrell donkin <ro...@blueyonder.co.uk>.
On Sunday, June 8, 2003, at 03:48 PM, Ryan Hoegg wrote:
<snip>
> I am currently a committer on ws.apache.org/xmlrpc. Can I help?
like anyone else you can help out as a developer ;)
i'm not an commons-attributes committer, so others will have to answer
whether they'd be happy to have you on-board as a committer but i can
probably give you an answer in theory: as a apache committer you can now
request jakarta-commons-sandbox karma from the jakarta pmc (pmc at jakarta.
apache.org) giving your reasons (maybe something like 'to help out on
commons-attributes'). please supply your apache user name with the request
(this makes things easier for infrastructure).
- robert
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Re: _Commons-Attributes_(sandbox)_and_Jon_Tirsén.
Posted by Ryan Hoegg <rh...@isisnetworks.net>.
I have e-mailed briefly with Mark Pollack of attrib4j.sourceforge.net.
It seems some work needs to be done to support JSR175 for both
commons-attributes and attrib4j. The main difference Jon and Mark have
so far is the Attribute interface, where Mark would rather not have
String properties for Name and Value.
One interesting thing about attrib4j is that it stores its attributes in
the class file instead of a separate properties file. I think that
since the attribute storage mechanism is already abstracted in the
current commons-attributes through the DefaultAttributeFinder and
DefaultAttributeCompiler, it would make sense to agree on a common
interface and create multiple implementations.
I am currently a committer on ws.apache.org/xmlrpc. Can I help?
--
Ryan Hoegg
ISIS Networks
http://www.isisnetworks.net
Paul Hammant wrote:
>Well I volunteer to help this get promoted out of sandbox. I've done work on it before (pairing
>with James Strachan - which he never committed - grumble grumble ;)
>
>Jon, that sound good to you ?
>
>- Paul
>
> --- robert burrell donkin <ro...@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote: > i'm against nominating
>committers for work on sandbox components.
>
>
>>(apache committers should just be able to request karma and then check
>>with the current committers that it's ok to join the fun.)
>>
>>if jon is an existing apache committer then he needs to post a request to
>>the pmc cc'ing commons-dev giving some brief indications of his plans. we
>>should then be able to sort out karma with infrastructure.
>>
>>IMHO if jon is not then the best solution would be for an existing apache
>>committer to volunteer (yourself, maybe) to lead an effort to push
>>attributes forward to a stage where it's ready for promotion to the common
>>proper.
>>
>>BTW are there any copyright issues associated with the Nanning code?
>>
>>- robert
>>
>>On Sunday, June 8, 2003, at 11:33 AM, Paul Hammant wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Jon has been working on attributes inside Nanning's CVS. The code we have
>>>(which is really) good
>>>is an earlier fork of that. Is there any way we can get Jon commit provs
>>>here? The version in
>>>Nanning is much more advanced than the version he donated to us earlier.
>>>
>>>If we can get some consensus, I think a vote may be a good idea. Surely
>>>he must qualify on the
>>>multi-month patch donator principle?
>>>
>>>- Paul
>>>
>>>__________________________________________________
>>>Yahoo! Plus - For a better Internet experience
>>>http://uk.promotions.yahoo.com/yplus/yoffer.html
>>>
>>>
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Re: Re:_Commons-Attributes_(sandbox)_and_Jon_Tirsén.
Posted by Jon Tirsén <jo...@tirsen.com>.
Fine by me. The code is pretty clean by now and I guess people are using
it. Maybe remove the dependency on commons-logging and that's it. (I
think QDox is the only other dependency...?)
The code in Nanning looks quite a bit different but the only major
changes I've done are using the lower-level API of QDox, incremental
compilation and introducing a ClassAttributes-object (increases
performance by a factor of at least 10 by caching the lookups instead of
concatenating strings for each lookup).
On Sun, 2003-06-08 at 11:11, Paul Hammant wrote:
> Well I volunteer to help this get promoted out of sandbox. I've done work on it before (pairing
> with James Strachan - which he never committed - grumble grumble ;)
>
> Jon, that sound good to you ?
>
> - Paul
>
> --- robert burrell donkin <ro...@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote: > i'm against nominating
> committers for work on sandbox components.
> >
> > (apache committers should just be able to request karma and then check
> > with the current committers that it's ok to join the fun.)
> >
> > if jon is an existing apache committer then he needs to post a request to
> > the pmc cc'ing commons-dev giving some brief indications of his plans. we
> > should then be able to sort out karma with infrastructure.
> >
> > IMHO if jon is not then the best solution would be for an existing apache
> > committer to volunteer (yourself, maybe) to lead an effort to push
> > attributes forward to a stage where it's ready for promotion to the common
> > proper.
> >
> > BTW are there any copyright issues associated with the Nanning code?
> >
> > - robert
> >
> > On Sunday, June 8, 2003, at 11:33 AM, Paul Hammant wrote:
> >
> > > Jon has been working on attributes inside Nanning's CVS. The code we have
> > > (which is really) good
> > > is an earlier fork of that. Is there any way we can get Jon commit provs
> > > here? The version in
> > > Nanning is much more advanced than the version he donated to us earlier.
> > >
> > > If we can get some consensus, I think a vote may be a good idea. Surely
> > > he must qualify on the
> > > multi-month patch donator principle?
> > >
> > > - Paul
> > >
> > > __________________________________________________
> > > Yahoo! Plus - For a better Internet experience
> > > http://uk.promotions.yahoo.com/yplus/yoffer.html
> > >
> > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: commons-dev-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
> > > For additional commands, e-mail: commons-dev-help@jakarta.apache.org
> > >
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: commons-dev-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: commons-dev-help@jakarta.apache.org
> >
>
> __________________________________________________
> Yahoo! Plus - For a better Internet experience
> http://uk.promotions.yahoo.com/yplus/yoffer.html
>
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Re: _Commons-Attributes_(sandbox)_and_Jon_Tirsén.
Posted by James Strachan <ja...@yahoo.co.uk>.
I'll help all I can too (and I'll try get those patches Paul sent me
off my old laptop...)
On Sunday, June 8, 2003, at 12:11 pm, Paul Hammant wrote:
> Well I volunteer to help this get promoted out of sandbox. I've done
> work on it before (pairing
> with James Strachan - which he never committed - grumble grumble ;)
>
> Jon, that sound good to you ?
>
> - Paul
>
> --- robert burrell donkin <ro...@blueyonder.co.uk>
> wrote: > i'm against nominating
> committers for work on sandbox components.
>>
>> (apache committers should just be able to request karma and then check
>> with the current committers that it's ok to join the fun.)
>>
>> if jon is an existing apache committer then he needs to post a
>> request to
>> the pmc cc'ing commons-dev giving some brief indications of his
>> plans. we
>> should then be able to sort out karma with infrastructure.
>>
>> IMHO if jon is not then the best solution would be for an existing
>> apache
>> committer to volunteer (yourself, maybe) to lead an effort to push
>> attributes forward to a stage where it's ready for promotion to the
>> common
>> proper.
>>
>> BTW are there any copyright issues associated with the Nanning code?
>>
>> - robert
>>
>> On Sunday, June 8, 2003, at 11:33 AM, Paul Hammant wrote:
>>
>>> Jon has been working on attributes inside Nanning's CVS. The code we
>>> have
>>> (which is really) good
>>> is an earlier fork of that. Is there any way we can get Jon commit
>>> provs
>>> here? The version in
>>> Nanning is much more advanced than the version he donated to us
>>> earlier.
>>>
>>> If we can get some consensus, I think a vote may be a good idea.
>>> Surely
>>> he must qualify on the
>>> multi-month patch donator principle?
>>>
>>> - Paul
>>>
>>> __________________________________________________
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