You are viewing a plain text version of this content. The canonical link for it is here.
Posted to dev@commons.apache.org by Rahul Akolkar <ra...@gmail.com> on 2006/03/29 20:33:02 UTC
Re: [all] Suggestion for all of Commons
Please prefix with [all], yup, its a bit tricky ;-)
On 3/29/06, Frank W. Zammetti <fz...@omnytex.com> wrote:
> Hey all,
>
> I just spent about 20 minutes working through a problem with FileUpload...
> turned out to be my fault entirely, I didn't include Commons IO (FYI, I'm
> not seeing a dependency list on the FileUpload site... maybe I missed it).
>
<snip/>
Its here:
http://jakarta.apache.org/commons/fileupload/dependencies.html
<snip-dependency-check-code-snippet/>
Or maybe we should simply advertise the dependencies pages better?
-Rahul
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: commons-dev-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: commons-dev-help@jakarta.apache.org
Re: [all] Suggestion for all of Commons
Posted by "Frank W. Zammetti" <fz...@omnytex.com>.
On Wed, March 29, 2006 1:33 pm, Rahul Akolkar said:
> Please prefix with [all], yup, its a bit tricky ;-)
Sorry, forgot :)
> Its here:
>
> http://jakarta.apache.org/commons/fileupload/dependencies.html
Hmm, weird... I go to:
http://jakarta.apache.org/commons/fileupload/
And I don't see a link to it... ah, I see... have to expand the Project
Info "branch" first. Yes, I would suggest that being more front and
center, i.e., visible right away. I know I'm the only person that has
ever been burned by missing dependencies, it would be much better if that
info was right there right away with no digging.
> <snip-dependency-check-code-snippet/>
>
> Or maybe we should simply advertise the dependencies pages better?
Certainly that would suffice. I think the code telling you when a
dependency is missing is a little friendlier, but certainly it isn't
necessary, as long as the information is quick and easy to find.
> -Rahul
Frank
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: commons-dev-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: commons-dev-help@jakarta.apache.org
Re: [all] Suggestion for all of Commons
Posted by sebb <se...@gmail.com>.
On 30/03/06, Phil Steitz <ph...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 3/29/06, Henri Yandell <fl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On 3/29/06, Sandy McArthur <sa...@apache.org> wrote:
> > > On 3/29/06, Henri Yandell <fl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > On 3/29/06, Sandy McArthur <sa...@apache.org> wrote:
> > > > > On 3/29/06, Rahul Akolkar <ra...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > > Or maybe we should simply advertise the dependencies pages better?
> > > > >
> > > > > Dependencies should be listed on the download page. The mind set of
> > > > > someone wanting to to use a component is and I know this from having
> > > > > done it a dozen or so times:
> > > >
> > > > I've come to believe that dependencies should be included in the
> > > > distribution. Also that we shouldn't bother with binary and source
> > > > distributions anymore; be like tapestry/hivemind (I think they're the
> > > > ones) and have just the one dist file.
> > >
> > > I'm almost cool with that. I'd be happy with a full download
> > > (binary.jar, sources, docs, etc) and just the raw binary.jar
> > >
> > > 85% of the time downloading the binary distrobution is just an extra
> > > step to get to what I want: the binary.jar
> >
> > Yeah, +1.
> >
> > I tend to go to ibiblio to get downloads half the time now; sad :)
> > Definitely valuable to be able to download just the jar, especially
> > for Commons things.
>
> If you don't like ibiblio, you can of course always use
> http://www.apache.org/dist/java-repository/
>
> Bundling dependencies is a last century waste of bandwidth, IMHO. I
> agree though that making it clear what they are is important. Might
> we worth a maven ticket to get them moved up in the default nav . I
> vaguely remember this being discussed before either here or on
> maven-user.
>
+1
Why not include it in the Download section of the navigation - e.g:
Download
* Releases (mirrored)
* Nightly snapshots
+ Dependencies
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: commons-dev-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: commons-dev-help@jakarta.apache.org
Re: [all] Suggestion for all of Commons
Posted by Phil Steitz <ph...@gmail.com>.
On 3/29/06, Henri Yandell <fl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 3/29/06, Sandy McArthur <sa...@apache.org> wrote:
> > On 3/29/06, Henri Yandell <fl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > On 3/29/06, Sandy McArthur <sa...@apache.org> wrote:
> > > > On 3/29/06, Rahul Akolkar <ra...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > Or maybe we should simply advertise the dependencies pages better?
> > > >
> > > > Dependencies should be listed on the download page. The mind set of
> > > > someone wanting to to use a component is and I know this from having
> > > > done it a dozen or so times:
> > >
> > > I've come to believe that dependencies should be included in the
> > > distribution. Also that we shouldn't bother with binary and source
> > > distributions anymore; be like tapestry/hivemind (I think they're the
> > > ones) and have just the one dist file.
> >
> > I'm almost cool with that. I'd be happy with a full download
> > (binary.jar, sources, docs, etc) and just the raw binary.jar
> >
> > 85% of the time downloading the binary distrobution is just an extra
> > step to get to what I want: the binary.jar
>
> Yeah, +1.
>
> I tend to go to ibiblio to get downloads half the time now; sad :)
> Definitely valuable to be able to download just the jar, especially
> for Commons things.
If you don't like ibiblio, you can of course always use
http://www.apache.org/dist/java-repository/
Bundling dependencies is a last century waste of bandwidth, IMHO. I
agree though that making it clear what they are is important. Might
we worth a maven ticket to get them moved up in the default nav . I
vaguely remember this being discussed before either here or on
maven-user.
Phil
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: commons-dev-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: commons-dev-help@jakarta.apache.org
Re: [all] Suggestion for all of Commons
Posted by Henri Yandell <fl...@gmail.com>.
On 3/29/06, Sandy McArthur <sa...@apache.org> wrote:
> On 3/29/06, Henri Yandell <fl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On 3/29/06, Sandy McArthur <sa...@apache.org> wrote:
> > > On 3/29/06, Rahul Akolkar <ra...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > Or maybe we should simply advertise the dependencies pages better?
> > >
> > > Dependencies should be listed on the download page. The mind set of
> > > someone wanting to to use a component is and I know this from having
> > > done it a dozen or so times:
> >
> > I've come to believe that dependencies should be included in the
> > distribution. Also that we shouldn't bother with binary and source
> > distributions anymore; be like tapestry/hivemind (I think they're the
> > ones) and have just the one dist file.
>
> I'm almost cool with that. I'd be happy with a full download
> (binary.jar, sources, docs, etc) and just the raw binary.jar
>
> 85% of the time downloading the binary distrobution is just an extra
> step to get to what I want: the binary.jar
Yeah, +1.
I tend to go to ibiblio to get downloads half the time now; sad :)
Definitely valuable to be able to download just the jar, especially
for Commons things.
Hen
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: commons-dev-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: commons-dev-help@jakarta.apache.org
Re: [all] Suggestion for all of Commons
Posted by Sandy McArthur <sa...@apache.org>.
On 3/29/06, Henri Yandell <fl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 3/29/06, Sandy McArthur <sa...@apache.org> wrote:
> > On 3/29/06, Rahul Akolkar <ra...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > Or maybe we should simply advertise the dependencies pages better?
> >
> > Dependencies should be listed on the download page. The mind set of
> > someone wanting to to use a component is and I know this from having
> > done it a dozen or so times:
>
> I've come to believe that dependencies should be included in the
> distribution. Also that we shouldn't bother with binary and source
> distributions anymore; be like tapestry/hivemind (I think they're the
> ones) and have just the one dist file.
I'm almost cool with that. I'd be happy with a full download
(binary.jar, sources, docs, etc) and just the raw binary.jar
85% of the time downloading the binary distrobution is just an extra
step to get to what I want: the binary.jar
> > 1. Find the component's site.
> > 2. Find the download link on the site.
> > 3. See want they want to download (src/bin, tar/zip)
> > 4. Unpack
> > 5. Find the jar and add it to their project.
> >
> > Step #3 is where we have the most cranial activity available to us and
> > we should take advantage of that. Any other step and the end user is
> > just going through the motions trying to get their work done with as
> > little effort as possible.
>
> Agreed.
>
> Hen
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: commons-dev-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: commons-dev-help@jakarta.apache.org
>
>
--
Sandy McArthur
"He who dares not offend cannot be honest."
- Thomas Paine
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: commons-dev-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: commons-dev-help@jakarta.apache.org
Re: [all] Suggestion for all of Commons
Posted by sebb <se...@gmail.com>.
On 29/03/06, Martin Cooper <ma...@apache.org> wrote:
> On 3/29/06, Henri Yandell <fl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > On 3/29/06, Sandy McArthur <sa...@apache.org> wrote:
> > > On 3/29/06, Rahul Akolkar <ra...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > Or maybe we should simply advertise the dependencies pages better?
> > >
> > > Dependencies should be listed on the download page. The mind set of
> > > someone wanting to to use a component is and I know this from having
> > > done it a dozen or so times:
+1
> >
> > I've come to believe that dependencies should be included in the
> > distribution. Also that we shouldn't bother with binary and source
> > distributions anymore; be like tapestry/hivemind (I think they're the
> > ones) and have just the one dist file.
-1 if that is the only archive type made available
> Urk. No thanks. If I download a couple of Commons components, and they share
> a couple of dependencies, and the bundled versions of those dependencies are
> different, what should I, as a user, do? I think that would just cause more
> confusion within the user base.
+1
> As for having just a single distribution, I'm not in favour of that either.
> The vast majority of users don't give a dickey bird about the source, and it
> just bulks up the distribution, and therefore the size of the end user's
> distribution as well. I doubt our users will thank us for increasing the
> size of their own applications, potentially increasing their bandwidth usage
> for customers to download their products.
+1
Seems to me the binary download should be the minimum needed to run
the component; the source download should not include any jars that
are in the binary download.
Depending on the component, potentially put the javadoc in a separate jar.
> --
> Martin Cooper
>
>
> > 1. Find the component's site.
> > > 2. Find the download link on the site.
> > > 3. See want they want to download (src/bin, tar/zip)
> > > 4. Unpack
> > > 5. Find the jar and add it to their project.
> > >
> > > Step #3 is where we have the most cranial activity available to us and
> > > we should take advantage of that. Any other step and the end user is
> > > just going through the motions trying to get their work done with as
> > > little effort as possible.
> >
> > Agreed.
> >
> > Hen
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: commons-dev-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: commons-dev-help@jakarta.apache.org
> >
> >
>
>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: commons-dev-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: commons-dev-help@jakarta.apache.org
Re: [all] Suggestion for all of Commons
Posted by Martin Cooper <ma...@apache.org>.
On 3/29/06, Henri Yandell <fl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> On 3/29/06, Sandy McArthur <sa...@apache.org> wrote:
> > On 3/29/06, Rahul Akolkar <ra...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > Or maybe we should simply advertise the dependencies pages better?
> >
> > Dependencies should be listed on the download page. The mind set of
> > someone wanting to to use a component is and I know this from having
> > done it a dozen or so times:
>
> I've come to believe that dependencies should be included in the
> distribution. Also that we shouldn't bother with binary and source
> distributions anymore; be like tapestry/hivemind (I think they're the
> ones) and have just the one dist file.
Urk. No thanks. If I download a couple of Commons components, and they share
a couple of dependencies, and the bundled versions of those dependencies are
different, what should I, as a user, do? I think that would just cause more
confusion within the user base.
As for having just a single distribution, I'm not in favour of that either.
The vast majority of users don't give a dickey bird about the source, and it
just bulks up the distribution, and therefore the size of the end user's
distribution as well. I doubt our users will thank us for increasing the
size of their own applications, potentially increasing their bandwidth usage
for customers to download their products.
--
Martin Cooper
> 1. Find the component's site.
> > 2. Find the download link on the site.
> > 3. See want they want to download (src/bin, tar/zip)
> > 4. Unpack
> > 5. Find the jar and add it to their project.
> >
> > Step #3 is where we have the most cranial activity available to us and
> > we should take advantage of that. Any other step and the end user is
> > just going through the motions trying to get their work done with as
> > little effort as possible.
>
> Agreed.
>
> Hen
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: commons-dev-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: commons-dev-help@jakarta.apache.org
>
>
Re: [all] Suggestion for all of Commons
Posted by Henri Yandell <fl...@gmail.com>.
On 3/29/06, Sandy McArthur <sa...@apache.org> wrote:
> On 3/29/06, Rahul Akolkar <ra...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Or maybe we should simply advertise the dependencies pages better?
>
> Dependencies should be listed on the download page. The mind set of
> someone wanting to to use a component is and I know this from having
> done it a dozen or so times:
I've come to believe that dependencies should be included in the
distribution. Also that we shouldn't bother with binary and source
distributions anymore; be like tapestry/hivemind (I think they're the
ones) and have just the one dist file.
> 1. Find the component's site.
> 2. Find the download link on the site.
> 3. See want they want to download (src/bin, tar/zip)
> 4. Unpack
> 5. Find the jar and add it to their project.
>
> Step #3 is where we have the most cranial activity available to us and
> we should take advantage of that. Any other step and the end user is
> just going through the motions trying to get their work done with as
> little effort as possible.
Agreed.
Hen
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: commons-dev-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: commons-dev-help@jakarta.apache.org
Re: [all] Suggestion for all of Commons
Posted by Michael Heuer <he...@acm.org>.
Sandy McArthur wrote:
> On 3/29/06, Rahul Akolkar <ra...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Or maybe we should simply advertise the dependencies pages better?
>
> Dependencies should be listed on the download page. The mind set of
> someone wanting to to use a component is and I know this from having
> done it a dozen or so times:
>
> 1. Find the component's site.
> 2. Find the download link on the site.
> 3. See want they want to download (src/bin, tar/zip)
> 4. Unpack
> 5. Find the jar and add it to their project.
>
> Step #3 is where we have the most cranial activity available to us and
> we should take advantage of that. Any other step and the end user is
> just going through the motions trying to get their work done with as
> little effort as possible.
With the advent of maven (and the maven ant tasks to a lesser extent) and
its central repository, I have found I almost never need to go through
that exercise any more.
A bit of doc something like...
<p>
To include commons-xxx as dependency for your maven 2.x project (and
transitively, commons-xxx's dependencies) use the following in your
<code>pom.xml</code>:
<source>
<dependency>
<groupId>org.apache.commons</groupId>
<artifactId>commons-xxx</artifactId>
<version>1.0</version>
<scope>compile</scope>
</dependency>
</source>
</p>
<p>
To include commons-xxx as a dependency for your maven 1.x project use the
following in your <code>project.xml</code>:
<source>
<dependency>
<groupId>org.apache.commons</groupId>
<artifactId>commons-xxx</artifactId>
<version>1.0</version>
</dependency>
<!-- dependencies for commons-xxx -->
<dependency>
<groupId>org.apache.commons</groupId>
<artifactId>commons-xxx-dependency0</artifactId>
<version>2.5</version>
</dependency>
<dependency>
<groupId>org.apache.commons</groupId>
<artifactId>commons-xxx-dependency1</artifactId>
<version>3.0</version>
</dependency>
</source>
</p>
(and a similar example using the maven ant tasks)
...would be quite useful to have on a download page, and could probably
be generated via the maven 1.x or 2.x dependency plugin.
michael
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: commons-dev-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: commons-dev-help@jakarta.apache.org
Re: [all] Suggestion for all of Commons
Posted by Sandy McArthur <sa...@apache.org>.
On 3/29/06, Rahul Akolkar <ra...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Or maybe we should simply advertise the dependencies pages better?
Dependencies should be listed on the download page. The mind set of
someone wanting to to use a component is and I know this from having
done it a dozen or so times:
1. Find the component's site.
2. Find the download link on the site.
3. See want they want to download (src/bin, tar/zip)
4. Unpack
5. Find the jar and add it to their project.
Step #3 is where we have the most cranial activity available to us and
we should take advantage of that. Any other step and the end user is
just going through the motions trying to get their work done with as
little effort as possible.
--
Sandy McArthur
"He who dares not offend cannot be honest."
- Thomas Paine
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: commons-dev-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: commons-dev-help@jakarta.apache.org