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Posted to taglibs-dev@jakarta.apache.org by Martin Cooper <ma...@apache.org> on 2005/06/14 17:53:47 UTC
Jakarta Taglibs as part of something bigger?
Over in Jakarta Commons, there has been some discussion over the last
couple of months about proposing the creation of a new Jakarta subproject,
tentatively named Webapp Commons. This came about as a result of proposals
to add servlet filters and other handy webapp-building widgets as Jakarta
Commons components, and the recognition that these do not really fit the
charter of Jakarta Commons.
So the idea was floated of creating a new Webapp Commons subproject that
would have just such a charter - commonly used widgets for building web
applications, including filters, listeners, and other such utility code.
What does this have to do with Jakarta Taglibs? Well, there was also a
discussion recently on the degree to which Taglibs is alive, and more
importantly, healthy. I think everyone here would agree that the community
here is not as healthy as it could be, with only a small number of taglibs
really being developed, and many languishing.
So a suggestion was made that Jakarta Taglibs could morph into a part of
the new WebApp Commons subproject. Not only would this bring it together
with other webapp-building components, but it has the potential to bring
fresh blood to Taglibs and revitalise the community.
What say you, Taglibs developers? Would this community be interested in
becoming a part of a larger Webapp Commons community, and sharing ideas
and code on more than just tag libraries?
Personally, I am very much +1 on this proposal.
--
Martin Cooper
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Re: Jakarta Taglibs as part of something bigger?
Posted by Felipe Leme <ja...@felipeal.net>.
Martin Cooper wrote:
> Personally, I am very much +1 on this proposal.
I'm +1 too, but I'd like to suggest that we start it "from scratch".
I mean, instead of just migrating the taglibs one-by-one, we would
create new taglibs then, following the proper procedures: TLD naming,
build structure, use of SVN, documentation, discard redundant taglibs,
etc...
-- Felipe
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Re: Standard goes where? Was: Jakarta Taglibs as part of something
bigger?
Posted by Felipe Leme <ja...@felipeal.net>.
Henri Yandell wrote:
> I just suggested on general@ that in the case of Taglibs moving to a
> web-components subproject, that I thought the Standard taglib should
> move up to being a subproject, rather than remaining inside the
> component subproject.
I suggested it too (in fact, I think you complemented my suggestion in a
reply :-)
> It's quite disjunct from the other taglibs (as it's a spec
> implementation, large, and high profile), and seems that it would do
> better as its own subcommunity.
>
> Any thoughts?
As I said in the General list, I will send a big message with many
voting proposals tomorrow...
[]s,
-- Felipe
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Re: Standard goes where? Was: Jakarta Taglibs as part of something bigger?
Posted by Martin Cooper <mf...@gmail.com>.
On 6/23/05, Henri Yandell <fl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 6/14/05, Martin Cooper <ma...@apache.org> wrote:
> >
> > So a suggestion was made that Jakarta Taglibs could morph into a part of
> > the new WebApp Commons subproject. Not only would this bring it together
> > with other webapp-building components, but it has the potential to bring
> > fresh blood to Taglibs and revitalise the community.
>
> I just suggested on general@ that in the case of Taglibs moving to a
> web-components subproject, that I thought the Standard taglib should
> move up to being a subproject, rather than remaining inside the
> component subproject.
>
> It's quite disjunct from the other taglibs (as it's a spec
> implementation, large, and high profile), and seems that it would do
> better as its own subcommunity.
>
> Any thoughts?
I think it would make sense for Standard to stand on its own. While I
agree to some extent with Rahul, I don't really see integration
between the Standard community and the rest of the Taglibs community.
They're really disjoint already, especially the committers. I believe
that Standard will succeed on its own, and I believe the rest of the
tag libraries here would benefit from being part of the proposed new
subproject.
--
Martin Cooper
> Hen
>
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>
>
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Re: Standard goes where? Was: Jakarta Taglibs as part of something bigger?
Posted by Rahul P Akolkar <ak...@us.ibm.com>.
Henri Yandell <fl...@gmail.com> wrote on 06/23/2005 09:20:48 PM:
<snip/>
> I just suggested on general@ that in the case of Taglibs moving to a
> web-components subproject, that I thought the Standard taglib should
> move up to being a subproject, rather than remaining inside the
> component subproject.
>
> It's quite disjunct from the other taglibs (as it's a spec
> implementation, large, and high profile), and seems that it would do
> better as its own subcommunity.
>
> Any thoughts?
I wonder if we have a silver bullet here. Standard is in a league of its
own, definitely.
I also believe the fact that Standard co-existed with the rest in Taglibs
so far has worked to everybody's benefit. I, for instance, often look at
Standard impls for reference and I believe Standard also benefits from
having more folks lurking around on the lists, some of whom have a primary
focus that is "unstandard".
I think the segregation of Standard is a logical, but slightly unfortunate
side-effect of moving to the proposed subproject (if we do).
-Rahul
Standard goes where? Was: Jakarta Taglibs as part of something bigger?
Posted by Henri Yandell <fl...@gmail.com>.
On 6/14/05, Martin Cooper <ma...@apache.org> wrote:
>
> So a suggestion was made that Jakarta Taglibs could morph into a part of
> the new WebApp Commons subproject. Not only would this bring it together
> with other webapp-building components, but it has the potential to bring
> fresh blood to Taglibs and revitalise the community.
I just suggested on general@ that in the case of Taglibs moving to a
web-components subproject, that I thought the Standard taglib should
move up to being a subproject, rather than remaining inside the
component subproject.
It's quite disjunct from the other taglibs (as it's a spec
implementation, large, and high profile), and seems that it would do
better as its own subcommunity.
Any thoughts?
Hen
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Re: Jakarta Taglibs as part of something bigger?
Posted by Flavio Tordini <f....@kataweb.it>.
Hi all,
I think Webapp Commons is a great idea. I'm no Apache committer but I'd be
more than happy to contribute these two little reusable components:
http://purl.org/net/flavio/xslt-servlet.html
http://purl.org/net/flavio/http-headers-filter.html
They are licensed under the Apache license 2.0 and the dependencies are from
Jakarta Commons.
Regards,
Flavio
On Sunday 19 June 2005 19:26, Martin Cooper wrote:
> On Sun, 19 Jun 2005, Glenn Nielsen wrote:
> > My initial reaction to this proposal is positive. I will hold off
> > on giving a +1 until there has been time for more discussion and
> > a more formal proposal.
> >
> > Other than taglibs how many other existing components are there for
> > Webapp Commons?
>
> There are a couple of components in the Jakarta Commons sandbox that would
> move over to a Webapp Commons. It has also been suggested that some
> add-ons from projects such as Tomcat could move there. And at least one
> non-committer has expressed interest in contributing things like filters
> and listeners.
>
> > Would Webapp Commons widgets be restricted to specific web application
> > frameworks or would it be wide open?
>
> I think the general idea is that it would be for framework-independent
> components. Anything that's intended for a specific framework would be
> more appropriately developed along with the framework rather that in
> Webapp Commons.
>
> --
> Martin Cooper
>
> > Regards,
> >
> > Glenn
> >
> > On Tue, Jun 14, 2005 at 08:53:47AM -0700, Martin Cooper wrote:
> >> Over in Jakarta Commons, there has been some discussion over the last
> >> couple of months about proposing the creation of a new Jakarta
> >> subproject, tentatively named Webapp Commons. This came about as a
> >> result of proposals to add servlet filters and other handy
> >> webapp-building widgets as Jakarta Commons components, and the
> >> recognition that these do not really fit the charter of Jakarta Commons.
> >>
> >> So the idea was floated of creating a new Webapp Commons subproject that
> >> would have just such a charter - commonly used widgets for building web
> >> applications, including filters, listeners, and other such utility code.
> >>
> >> What does this have to do with Jakarta Taglibs? Well, there was also a
> >> discussion recently on the degree to which Taglibs is alive, and more
> >> importantly, healthy. I think everyone here would agree that the
> >> community here is not as healthy as it could be, with only a small
> >> number of taglibs really being developed, and many languishing.
> >>
> >> So a suggestion was made that Jakarta Taglibs could morph into a part of
> >> the new WebApp Commons subproject. Not only would this bring it together
> >> with other webapp-building components, but it has the potential to bring
> >> fresh blood to Taglibs and revitalise the community.
> >>
> >> What say you, Taglibs developers? Would this community be interested in
> >> becoming a part of a larger Webapp Commons community, and sharing ideas
> >> and code on more than just tag libraries?
> >>
> >> Personally, I am very much +1 on this proposal.
> >>
> >> --
> >> Martin Cooper
> >>
> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: taglibs-dev-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
> >> For additional commands, e-mail: taglibs-dev-help@jakarta.apache.org
> >
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> > Glenn Nielsen glenn@more.net | /* Spelin donut madder |
> > MOREnet System Programming | * if iz ina coment. |
> > Missouri Research and Education Network | */ |
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: taglibs-dev-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: taglibs-dev-help@jakarta.apache.org
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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Re: Jakarta Taglibs as part of something bigger?
Posted by Martin Cooper <ma...@apache.org>.
On Sun, 19 Jun 2005, Glenn Nielsen wrote:
> My initial reaction to this proposal is positive. I will hold off
> on giving a +1 until there has been time for more discussion and
> a more formal proposal.
>
> Other than taglibs how many other existing components are there for
> Webapp Commons?
There are a couple of components in the Jakarta Commons sandbox that would
move over to a Webapp Commons. It has also been suggested that some
add-ons from projects such as Tomcat could move there. And at least one
non-committer has expressed interest in contributing things like filters
and listeners.
> Would Webapp Commons widgets be restricted to specific web application
> frameworks or would it be wide open?
I think the general idea is that it would be for framework-independent
components. Anything that's intended for a specific framework would be
more appropriately developed along with the framework rather that in
Webapp Commons.
--
Martin Cooper
> Regards,
>
> Glenn
>
> On Tue, Jun 14, 2005 at 08:53:47AM -0700, Martin Cooper wrote:
>> Over in Jakarta Commons, there has been some discussion over the last
>> couple of months about proposing the creation of a new Jakarta subproject,
>> tentatively named Webapp Commons. This came about as a result of proposals
>> to add servlet filters and other handy webapp-building widgets as Jakarta
>> Commons components, and the recognition that these do not really fit the
>> charter of Jakarta Commons.
>>
>> So the idea was floated of creating a new Webapp Commons subproject that
>> would have just such a charter - commonly used widgets for building web
>> applications, including filters, listeners, and other such utility code.
>>
>> What does this have to do with Jakarta Taglibs? Well, there was also a
>> discussion recently on the degree to which Taglibs is alive, and more
>> importantly, healthy. I think everyone here would agree that the community
>> here is not as healthy as it could be, with only a small number of taglibs
>> really being developed, and many languishing.
>>
>> So a suggestion was made that Jakarta Taglibs could morph into a part of
>> the new WebApp Commons subproject. Not only would this bring it together
>> with other webapp-building components, but it has the potential to bring
>> fresh blood to Taglibs and revitalise the community.
>>
>> What say you, Taglibs developers? Would this community be interested in
>> becoming a part of a larger Webapp Commons community, and sharing ideas
>> and code on more than just tag libraries?
>>
>> Personally, I am very much +1 on this proposal.
>>
>> --
>> Martin Cooper
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: taglibs-dev-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: taglibs-dev-help@jakarta.apache.org
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> Glenn Nielsen glenn@more.net | /* Spelin donut madder |
> MOREnet System Programming | * if iz ina coment. |
> Missouri Research and Education Network | */ |
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: taglibs-dev-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: taglibs-dev-help@jakarta.apache.org
>
>
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Re: Jakarta Taglibs as part of something bigger?
Posted by Glenn Nielsen <gl...@mail.more.net>.
My initial reaction to this proposal is positive. I will hold off
on giving a +1 until there has been time for more discussion and
a more formal proposal.
Other than taglibs how many other existing components are there for
Webapp Commons?
Would Webapp Commons widgets be restricted to specific web application
frameworks or would it be wide open?
Regards,
Glenn
On Tue, Jun 14, 2005 at 08:53:47AM -0700, Martin Cooper wrote:
> Over in Jakarta Commons, there has been some discussion over the last
> couple of months about proposing the creation of a new Jakarta subproject,
> tentatively named Webapp Commons. This came about as a result of proposals
> to add servlet filters and other handy webapp-building widgets as Jakarta
> Commons components, and the recognition that these do not really fit the
> charter of Jakarta Commons.
>
> So the idea was floated of creating a new Webapp Commons subproject that
> would have just such a charter - commonly used widgets for building web
> applications, including filters, listeners, and other such utility code.
>
> What does this have to do with Jakarta Taglibs? Well, there was also a
> discussion recently on the degree to which Taglibs is alive, and more
> importantly, healthy. I think everyone here would agree that the community
> here is not as healthy as it could be, with only a small number of taglibs
> really being developed, and many languishing.
>
> So a suggestion was made that Jakarta Taglibs could morph into a part of
> the new WebApp Commons subproject. Not only would this bring it together
> with other webapp-building components, but it has the potential to bring
> fresh blood to Taglibs and revitalise the community.
>
> What say you, Taglibs developers? Would this community be interested in
> becoming a part of a larger Webapp Commons community, and sharing ideas
> and code on more than just tag libraries?
>
> Personally, I am very much +1 on this proposal.
>
> --
> Martin Cooper
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: taglibs-dev-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: taglibs-dev-help@jakarta.apache.org
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Glenn Nielsen glenn@more.net | /* Spelin donut madder |
MOREnet System Programming | * if iz ina coment. |
Missouri Research and Education Network | */ |
----------------------------------------------------------------------
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Re: Jakarta Taglibs as part of something bigger?
Posted by Rahul P Akolkar <ak...@us.ibm.com>.
Martin -
Just as you mention, I've heard opinions (and more lately) about Taglibs
needing fresh blood, revitalization; something radical. As a
developer/contributor, the draw in the WebApp Commons subproject proposal
for me is more committers (instantly!), i.e. more sets of eyes to respond
to things like this [
http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=taglibs-dev&m=111765575817770&w=2 ].
In my opinion, testimonials like this one [
http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=jakarta-commons-dev&m=111871163630760&w=2
] tend to indicate nephritic failure; and that has a way of quickly using
up the best of fresh blood. I'm sure we're looking at this not as
outsourcing the revitalization of our community, but rather a chance to be
exposed to a larger audience, and to share our passion for Taglibs with
like-minded people.
I'm happy to help with this.
-Rahul
P.S.- All, please note:
1) I don't intend the least bit of offence to anyone (I'm hoping its
obvious). Please, I urge, none be taken.
2) I understand constraints; day-time jobs, families, other engagements.
3) I want the best for the entire taglibs community (including a future
for the sandbox taglibs).
4) I have read views of multiple Jakarta committers on this topic, on
multiple related threads.