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Posted to dev@harmony.apache.org by Tim Ellison <t....@gmail.com> on 2006/06/08 08:09:56 UTC
[classlib] moving to 1.5 for real - discuss
Thanks to many stellar contributions all round we are pretty much
exhausting the work we can do with the temporary solution we adopted of
source=1.5 target=jsr14|1.4 compiler flags.
How do you feel about moving to 1.5 for real? It would be simple to
change the Java compiler build options to generate 1.5 class files.
AIUI there is at least some 1.5 awareness in DRLVM and JCHEVM (and
SableVM?) which would allow the current functionality to work, and IBM
can provide a 1.5 version of the IBM VME to run on.
Thoughts?
Tim
--
Tim Ellison (t.p.ellison@gmail.com)
IBM Java technology centre, UK.
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Re: [classlib] moving to 1.5 for real - discuss
Posted by Andrew Zhang <zh...@gmail.com>.
Great news!
I can't wait to work on REAL 1.5 !
On 6/8/06, Tim Ellison <t....@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Thanks to many stellar contributions all round we are pretty much
> exhausting the work we can do with the temporary solution we adopted of
> source=1.5 target=jsr14|1.4 compiler flags.
>
> How do you feel about moving to 1.5 for real? It would be simple to
> change the Java compiler build options to generate 1.5 class files.
>
> AIUI there is at least some 1.5 awareness in DRLVM and JCHEVM (and
> SableVM?) which would allow the current functionality to work, and IBM
> can provide a 1.5 version of the IBM VME to run on.
>
> Thoughts?
>
> Tim
>
> --
>
> Tim Ellison (t.p.ellison@gmail.com)
> IBM Java technology centre, UK.
>
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>
--
Andrew Zhang
China Software Development Lab, IBM
Re: [classlib] moving to 1.5 for real - discuss
Posted by Tim Ellison <t....@gmail.com>.
psst don't tell anyone, but there is a workaround for new Eclipse builds
too. If you set the compiler options to be project specific, then edit
the core settings file manually to be source 1.5 and target 1.4, it does
the 'right thing' for us ;-) But don't tell the Eclipse-folk they'll
only fix it.
Regards,
Tim
p.s. and yes, this time I do realize that I'm posting to the list<g>.
Jimmy, Jing Lv wrote:
> Tim Ellison wrote:
>> Thanks to many stellar contributions all round we are pretty much
>> exhausting the work we can do with the temporary solution we adopted of
>> source=1.5 target=jsr14|1.4 compiler flags.
>>
>> How do you feel about moving to 1.5 for real? It would be simple to
>> change the Java compiler build options to generate 1.5 class files.
>>
>> AIUI there is at least some 1.5 awareness in DRLVM and JCHEVM (and
>> SableVM?) which would allow the current functionality to work, and IBM
>> can provide a 1.5 version of the IBM VME to run on.
>>
>> Thoughts?
>>
>> Tim
>>
>
> Great idea! I'm still using eclipse3.2M5 for its "bug" that allow
> "source=1.5 target=jsr14|1.4.", it is the time to get rid of it then.
> Let's move on :)
>
--
Tim Ellison (t.p.ellison@gmail.com)
IBM Java technology centre, UK.
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Re: [classlib] moving to 1.5 for real - discuss
Posted by "Jimmy, Jing Lv" <fi...@gmail.com>.
Tim Ellison wrote:
> Thanks to many stellar contributions all round we are pretty much
> exhausting the work we can do with the temporary solution we adopted of
> source=1.5 target=jsr14|1.4 compiler flags.
>
> How do you feel about moving to 1.5 for real? It would be simple to
> change the Java compiler build options to generate 1.5 class files.
>
> AIUI there is at least some 1.5 awareness in DRLVM and JCHEVM (and
> SableVM?) which would allow the current functionality to work, and IBM
> can provide a 1.5 version of the IBM VME to run on.
>
> Thoughts?
>
> Tim
>
Great idea! I'm still using eclipse3.2M5 for its "bug" that allow
"source=1.5 target=jsr14|1.4.", it is the time to get rid of it then.
Let's move on :)
--
Best Regards!
Jimmy, Jing Lv
China Software Development Lab, IBM
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Re: [classlib] moving to 1.5 for real - discuss
Posted by Geir Magnusson Jr <ge...@pobox.com>.
Tim Ellison wrote:
> Geir Magnusson Jr wrote:
>> I'm +1 except I'd like to see us get to the point where we can
>>
>> - produce a full snapshot of classlib + VM (using DRLVM or JCHEVM or
>> whatever)
>
> Absolutely, so how close are we to doing that?
Trying to wack the drlvm build into shape...
>
>> - understand the timing of getting said VMs far enough that code will
>> continue to run
>
> I hope it will not be too much work for said VMs to grok the new class
> file format, without doing all the TI, instrument, reflection, ... stuff.
>
> Can people in the know tell me if said VMs can grok LDC CONSTANT_class,
> Synthetic access specifiers, etc? If so we can run what we have got
> built with the 1.5 compiler target.
>
>> While I'm stunningly grateful for the support IBM is providing with J9,
>> and am looking forward to continuing support being very valuable and
>> useful for us, we need to get the point of basic self-reliance wrt VM,
>> and I'd at least like to understand what the 1.5 implications are, and
>> the timelines for doing it.
>
> Understood -- and me too. Time line is important since doing things
> like concurrent and annotation will depend upon further VM support.
>
> Regards,
> Tim
>
>> Tim Ellison wrote:
>>> Thanks to many stellar contributions all round we are pretty much
>>> exhausting the work we can do with the temporary solution we adopted of
>>> source=1.5 target=jsr14|1.4 compiler flags.
>>>
>>> How do you feel about moving to 1.5 for real? It would be simple to
>>> change the Java compiler build options to generate 1.5 class files.
>>>
>>> AIUI there is at least some 1.5 awareness in DRLVM and JCHEVM (and
>>> SableVM?) which would allow the current functionality to work, and IBM
>>> can provide a 1.5 version of the IBM VME to run on.
>>>
>>> Thoughts?
>>>
>>> Tim
>>>
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>>
>
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Re: [classlib] moving to 1.5 for real - discuss
Posted by Tim Ellison <t....@gmail.com>.
Geir Magnusson Jr wrote:
> I'm +1 except I'd like to see us get to the point where we can
>
> - produce a full snapshot of classlib + VM (using DRLVM or JCHEVM or
> whatever)
Absolutely, so how close are we to doing that?
> - understand the timing of getting said VMs far enough that code will
> continue to run
I hope it will not be too much work for said VMs to grok the new class
file format, without doing all the TI, instrument, reflection, ... stuff.
Can people in the know tell me if said VMs can grok LDC CONSTANT_class,
Synthetic access specifiers, etc? If so we can run what we have got
built with the 1.5 compiler target.
> While I'm stunningly grateful for the support IBM is providing with J9,
> and am looking forward to continuing support being very valuable and
> useful for us, we need to get the point of basic self-reliance wrt VM,
> and I'd at least like to understand what the 1.5 implications are, and
> the timelines for doing it.
Understood -- and me too. Time line is important since doing things
like concurrent and annotation will depend upon further VM support.
Regards,
Tim
> Tim Ellison wrote:
>> Thanks to many stellar contributions all round we are pretty much
>> exhausting the work we can do with the temporary solution we adopted of
>> source=1.5 target=jsr14|1.4 compiler flags.
>>
>> How do you feel about moving to 1.5 for real? It would be simple to
>> change the Java compiler build options to generate 1.5 class files.
>>
>> AIUI there is at least some 1.5 awareness in DRLVM and JCHEVM (and
>> SableVM?) which would allow the current functionality to work, and IBM
>> can provide a 1.5 version of the IBM VME to run on.
>>
>> Thoughts?
>>
>> Tim
>>
>
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>
--
Tim Ellison (t.p.ellison@gmail.com)
IBM Java technology centre, UK.
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Re: [classlib] moving to 1.5 for real - discuss
Posted by Geir Magnusson Jr <ge...@pobox.com>.
I'm +1 except I'd like to see us get to the point where we can
- produce a full snapshot of classlib + VM (using DRLVM or JCHEVM or
whatever)
- understand the timing of getting said VMs far enough that code will
continue to run
While I'm stunningly grateful for the support IBM is providing with J9,
and am looking forward to continuing support being very valuable and
useful for us, we need to get the point of basic self-reliance wrt VM,
and I'd at least like to understand what the 1.5 implications are, and
the timelines for doing it.
geir
Tim Ellison wrote:
> Thanks to many stellar contributions all round we are pretty much
> exhausting the work we can do with the temporary solution we adopted of
> source=1.5 target=jsr14|1.4 compiler flags.
>
> How do you feel about moving to 1.5 for real? It would be simple to
> change the Java compiler build options to generate 1.5 class files.
>
> AIUI there is at least some 1.5 awareness in DRLVM and JCHEVM (and
> SableVM?) which would allow the current functionality to work, and IBM
> can provide a 1.5 version of the IBM VME to run on.
>
> Thoughts?
>
> Tim
>
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Re: [classlib] moving to 1.5 for real - discuss
Posted by Oliver Deakin <ol...@googlemail.com>.
Tim Ellison wrote:
> Thanks to many stellar contributions all round we are pretty much
> exhausting the work we can do with the temporary solution we adopted of
> source=1.5 target=jsr14|1.4 compiler flags.
>
> How do you feel about moving to 1.5 for real? It would be simple to
> change the Java compiler build options to generate 1.5 class files.
>
Good idea! We've been edging around what we can do with jsr14 for a
while now. That
solution was only ever intended to be temporary, maybe now is the time
to fully step
up to 5.0.
Altering the build system to create 5.0 level classes is a one liner
AFAICS, and will allow
us to enable some of the code we have that currently is lying dormant
(such as the 5.0
version of itc's rmi, and we can remove rmi2.1.4).
> AIUI there is at least some 1.5 awareness in DRLVM and JCHEVM (and
> SableVM?) which would allow the current functionality to work, and IBM
> can provide a 1.5 version of the IBM VME to run on.
>
> Thoughts?
>
I think this move is probably overdue - it'd be great to step the
classlib and our VMs up
to 5.0, feels like we're moving closer to our target!
Regards,
Oliver
> Tim
>
>
--
Oliver Deakin
IBM United Kingdom Limited
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Re: [classlib] moving to 1.5 for real - discuss
Posted by Geir Magnusson Jr <ge...@pobox.com>.
Tim Ellison wrote:
> Alexey Petrenko wrote:
>> 2006/6/8, Tim Ellison <t....@gmail.com>:
>>> Alexey Petrenko wrote:
>>>> 2006/6/8, Mikhail Loenko <ml...@gmail.com>:
>>>>> what are the benefits?
>>>> The main benefit for me is to have possibility to use all the 1.5
>>>> extensions without any problems.
>>>> We will need to make this step somewhen anyway since we are going to
>>>> create 1.5 implementation.
>>>>
>>>> The only question from me for now: does all the Harmony VMs (DRLVM,
>>>> j9, jchevm) support 1.5 version of class files?
>>> Exactly.
>>>
>>> So to answer part of your question : there would need to be a new IBM
>>> VME download put on developerworks, but I do not expect that to be a
>>> problem.
>> Great!
>>
>> So we need answers from DRLVM and jchevm guys...
>
> Archie has expressed the jchevm opinion in favour of the change --
> anyone familiar with DRLVM care to comment?
>
> (Of course this would be after Geir's VM build work, just asking)
My intention is to not hold anything up and always have the old build
system work, so no need to serialize.
geir
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Re: [classlib] moving to 1.5 for real - discuss
Posted by Alexey Varlamov <al...@gmail.com>.
Tim, all,
I was offline for 2 weeks, now catching up with Harmony pace... I've
seen more specific thread started, "[drlvm] Doing the minimum to
support Java 5 classfiles",
so just a quick affirmative to round off this thread:
Yes, I'm going to patch this in the nearest time.
2006/6/16, Tim Ellison <t....@gmail.com>:
> Geir Magnusson Jr wrote:
> > I'd like to suggest that we get at least one of the project VMs to
> > support this before we switch.
>
> Yep, Alexey said that there were "some (minor) changes" required to
> DRLVM, and Archie said that JCHEVM should already handle the new
> classfile format. Hopefully we will all align at the same time.
>
> Alexey: I know that you indicated support to change the compiler target,
> but is the DRLVM support something you can patch quite soon?
>
> Just to be clear, at this point we are referring to supporting the new
> classfile format, not fully-fledged support for new 1.5 features like
> annotations, reflection, etc.
>
> Regards,
> Tim
>
> --
>
> Tim Ellison (t.p.ellison@gmail.com)
> IBM Java technology centre, UK.
>
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Re: [classlib] moving to 1.5 for real - discuss
Posted by Tim Ellison <t....@gmail.com>.
Geir Magnusson Jr wrote:
> I'd like to suggest that we get at least one of the project VMs to
> support this before we switch.
Yep, Alexey said that there were "some (minor) changes" required to
DRLVM, and Archie said that JCHEVM should already handle the new
classfile format. Hopefully we will all align at the same time.
Alexey: I know that you indicated support to change the compiler target,
but is the DRLVM support something you can patch quite soon?
Just to be clear, at this point we are referring to supporting the new
classfile format, not fully-fledged support for new 1.5 features like
annotations, reflection, etc.
Regards,
Tim
--
Tim Ellison (t.p.ellison@gmail.com)
IBM Java technology centre, UK.
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Re: [classlib] moving to 1.5 for real - discuss
Posted by Geir Magnusson Jr <ge...@pobox.com>.
I'd like to suggest that we get at least one of the project VMs to
support this before we switch.
geir
Tim Ellison wrote:
> Jimmy, Jing Lv wrote:
>> Seems everyone is glad to move to 1.5, so I'd like to know when will
>> Harmony reach this milestone? I can hardly wait :)
>
> Good to see your enthusiasm! I was going to get an IBM VME download in
> place first so that those who choose can continue to use that VM without
> interruption. Should not be too long I hope.
>
> Regards,
> Tim
>
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Re: [classlib] moving to 1.5 for real - discuss
Posted by Tim Ellison <t....@gmail.com>.
Jimmy, Jing Lv wrote:
> Seems everyone is glad to move to 1.5, so I'd like to know when will
> Harmony reach this milestone? I can hardly wait :)
Good to see your enthusiasm! I was going to get an IBM VME download in
place first so that those who choose can continue to use that VM without
interruption. Should not be too long I hope.
Regards,
Tim
--
Tim Ellison (t.p.ellison@gmail.com)
IBM Java technology centre, UK.
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Re: [classlib] moving to 1.5 for real - discuss
Posted by "Jimmy, Jing Lv" <fi...@gmail.com>.
Tim Ellison wrote:
> Alexey Varlamov wrote:
>>>> So we need answers from DRLVM and jchevm guys...
>>> Archie has expressed the jchevm opinion in favour of the change --
>>> anyone familiar with DRLVM care to comment?
>>>
>>> (Of course this would be after Geir's VM build work, just asking)
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> Tim
>> DRLVM needs some (minor) changes to support 1.5-targeted classfiles,
>> this is quite easy. Full-fledged implementation of 1.5 kernel classes
>> (annotations, reflection, etc) requires some more efforts but also
>> should not take too long.
>
> Understood, I wasn't expecting those to be working -- just the effort to
> let DRLVM grok the v49 files.
>
>> So +1 from me.
>
> Well it isn't a formal vote, but glad to see you are in favor too.
>
> Regards,
> Tim
>
>
Seems everyone is glad to move to 1.5, so I'd like to know when will
Harmony reach this milestone? I can hardly wait :)
--
Best Regards!
Jimmy, Jing Lv
China Software Development Lab, IBM
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Re: [classlib] moving to 1.5 for real - discuss
Posted by Tim Ellison <t....@gmail.com>.
Alexey Varlamov wrote:
>> > So we need answers from DRLVM and jchevm guys...
>>
>> Archie has expressed the jchevm opinion in favour of the change --
>> anyone familiar with DRLVM care to comment?
>>
>> (Of course this would be after Geir's VM build work, just asking)
>>
>> Regards,
>> Tim
>
> DRLVM needs some (minor) changes to support 1.5-targeted classfiles,
> this is quite easy. Full-fledged implementation of 1.5 kernel classes
> (annotations, reflection, etc) requires some more efforts but also
> should not take too long.
Understood, I wasn't expecting those to be working -- just the effort to
let DRLVM grok the v49 files.
> So +1 from me.
Well it isn't a formal vote, but glad to see you are in favor too.
Regards,
Tim
--
Tim Ellison (t.p.ellison@gmail.com)
IBM Java technology centre, UK.
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Re: [classlib] moving to 1.5 for real - discuss
Posted by Alexey Varlamov <al...@gmail.com>.
> > So we need answers from DRLVM and jchevm guys...
>
> Archie has expressed the jchevm opinion in favour of the change --
> anyone familiar with DRLVM care to comment?
>
> (Of course this would be after Geir's VM build work, just asking)
>
> Regards,
> Tim
DRLVM needs some (minor) changes to support 1.5-targeted classfiles,
this is quite easy. Full-fledged implementation of 1.5 kernel classes
(annotations, reflection, etc) requires some more efforts but also
should not take too long.
So +1 from me.
Regards,
Alexey Varlamov
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Re: [classlib] moving to 1.5 for real - discuss
Posted by Tim Ellison <t....@gmail.com>.
Alexey Petrenko wrote:
> 2006/6/8, Tim Ellison <t....@gmail.com>:
>> Alexey Petrenko wrote:
>> > 2006/6/8, Mikhail Loenko <ml...@gmail.com>:
>> >> what are the benefits?
>> > The main benefit for me is to have possibility to use all the 1.5
>> > extensions without any problems.
>> > We will need to make this step somewhen anyway since we are going to
>> > create 1.5 implementation.
>> >
>> > The only question from me for now: does all the Harmony VMs (DRLVM,
>> > j9, jchevm) support 1.5 version of class files?
>>
>> Exactly.
>>
>> So to answer part of your question : there would need to be a new IBM
>> VME download put on developerworks, but I do not expect that to be a
>> problem.
> Great!
>
> So we need answers from DRLVM and jchevm guys...
Archie has expressed the jchevm opinion in favour of the change --
anyone familiar with DRLVM care to comment?
(Of course this would be after Geir's VM build work, just asking)
Regards,
Tim
--
Tim Ellison (t.p.ellison@gmail.com)
IBM Java technology centre, UK.
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Re: [classlib] moving to 1.5 for real - discuss
Posted by Alexey Petrenko <al...@gmail.com>.
2006/6/8, Tim Ellison <t....@gmail.com>:
> Alexey Petrenko wrote:
> > 2006/6/8, Mikhail Loenko <ml...@gmail.com>:
> >> what are the benefits?
> > The main benefit for me is to have possibility to use all the 1.5
> > extensions without any problems.
> > We will need to make this step somewhen anyway since we are going to
> > create 1.5 implementation.
> >
> > The only question from me for now: does all the Harmony VMs (DRLVM,
> > j9, jchevm) support 1.5 version of class files?
>
> Exactly.
>
> So to answer part of your question : there would need to be a new IBM
> VME download put on developerworks, but I do not expect that to be a
> problem.
Great!
So we need answers from DRLVM and jchevm guys...
--
Alexey A. Petrenko
Intel Middleware Products Division
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Re: [classlib] moving to 1.5 for real - discuss
Posted by Tim Ellison <t....@gmail.com>.
Alexey Petrenko wrote:
> 2006/6/8, Mikhail Loenko <ml...@gmail.com>:
>> what are the benefits?
> The main benefit for me is to have possibility to use all the 1.5
> extensions without any problems.
> We will need to make this step somewhen anyway since we are going to
> create 1.5 implementation.
>
> The only question from me for now: does all the Harmony VMs (DRLVM,
> j9, jchevm) support 1.5 version of class files?
Exactly.
So to answer part of your question : there would need to be a new IBM
VME download put on developerworks, but I do not expect that to be a
problem.
Regards,
Tim
--
Tim Ellison (t.p.ellison@gmail.com)
IBM Java technology centre, UK.
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Re: [classlib] moving to 1.5 for real - discuss
Posted by Archie Cobbs <ar...@dellroad.org>.
Alexey Petrenko wrote:
> The only question from me for now: does all the Harmony VMs (DRLVM,
> j9, jchevm) support 1.5 version of class files?
JCHEVM should handle the new CONSTANT_Class and classfile version, but
other stuff like 1.5 reflection won't work yet. So far little attention
and testing other than for the class file format has been payed so far.
1.5 support is of course a goal, so I'm in favor of the change.
-Archie
__________________________________________________________________________
Archie Cobbs * CTO, Awarix * http://www.awarix.com
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Re: [classlib] moving to 1.5 for real - discuss
Posted by Alexey Petrenko <al...@gmail.com>.
2006/6/8, Mikhail Loenko <ml...@gmail.com>:
> what are the benefits?
The main benefit for me is to have possibility to use all the 1.5
extensions without any problems.
We will need to make this step somewhen anyway since we are going to
create 1.5 implementation.
The only question from me for now: does all the Harmony VMs (DRLVM,
j9, jchevm) support 1.5 version of class files?
--
Alexey A. Petrenko
Intel Middleware Products Division
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Re: [classlib] moving to 1.5 for real - discuss
Posted by Geir Magnusson Jr <ge...@pobox.com>.
The benefit is that it is our goal, Java 5 :)
See my other note re my concerns.
geir
Mikhail Loenko wrote:
> what are the benefits?
>
> Thanks,
> Mikhail
>
> 2006/6/8, Tim Ellison <t....@gmail.com>:
>> Thanks to many stellar contributions all round we are pretty much
>> exhausting the work we can do with the temporary solution we adopted of
>> source=1.5 target=jsr14|1.4 compiler flags.
>>
>> How do you feel about moving to 1.5 for real? It would be simple to
>> change the Java compiler build options to generate 1.5 class files.
>>
>> AIUI there is at least some 1.5 awareness in DRLVM and JCHEVM (and
>> SableVM?) which would allow the current functionality to work, and IBM
>> can provide a 1.5 version of the IBM VME to run on.
>>
>> Thoughts?
>>
>> Tim
>>
>> --
>>
>> Tim Ellison (t.p.ellison@gmail.com)
>> IBM Java technology centre, UK.
>>
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Re: [classlib] moving to 1.5 for real - discuss
Posted by Mikhail Loenko <ml...@gmail.com>.
what are the benefits?
Thanks,
Mikhail
2006/6/8, Tim Ellison <t....@gmail.com>:
> Thanks to many stellar contributions all round we are pretty much
> exhausting the work we can do with the temporary solution we adopted of
> source=1.5 target=jsr14|1.4 compiler flags.
>
> How do you feel about moving to 1.5 for real? It would be simple to
> change the Java compiler build options to generate 1.5 class files.
>
> AIUI there is at least some 1.5 awareness in DRLVM and JCHEVM (and
> SableVM?) which would allow the current functionality to work, and IBM
> can provide a 1.5 version of the IBM VME to run on.
>
> Thoughts?
>
> Tim
>
> --
>
> Tim Ellison (t.p.ellison@gmail.com)
> IBM Java technology centre, UK.
>
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RE: [classlib] moving to 1.5 for real - discuss
Posted by Nathan Beyer <nb...@kc.rr.com>.
+1
I would suggest doing a final snapshot and tag prior to the switch over.
This would give VMs something to work with if it's needed.
-Nathan
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Tim Ellison [mailto:t.p.ellison@gmail.com]
> Sent: Thursday, June 08, 2006 12:10 AM
> To: harmony-dev
> Subject: [classlib] moving to 1.5 for real - discuss
>
> Thanks to many stellar contributions all round we are pretty much
> exhausting the work we can do with the temporary solution we adopted of
> source=1.5 target=jsr14|1.4 compiler flags.
>
> How do you feel about moving to 1.5 for real? It would be simple to
> change the Java compiler build options to generate 1.5 class files.
>
> AIUI there is at least some 1.5 awareness in DRLVM and JCHEVM (and
> SableVM?) which would allow the current functionality to work, and IBM
> can provide a 1.5 version of the IBM VME to run on.
>
> Thoughts?
>
> Tim
>
> --
>
> Tim Ellison (t.p.ellison@gmail.com)
> IBM Java technology centre, UK.
>
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