You are viewing a plain text version of this content. The canonical link for it is here.
Posted to dev@subversion.apache.org by ep...@google.com on 2008/04/30 22:34:10 UTC
Re: svn commit: r30864 - in trunk/contrib/server-side/svnstsw: . conf doc doc/man include include/svnstsw src
rhansen@tigris.org writes:
> Author: rhansen
> Date: Wed Apr 30 11:26:00 2008
> New Revision: 30864
>
> Log:
> Initial import of svnstsw
>
> Added:
> trunk/contrib/server-side/svnstsw/ (props changed)
> trunk/contrib/server-side/svnstsw/AUTHORS
> trunk/contrib/server-side/svnstsw/COPYING
> trunk/contrib/server-side/svnstsw/INSTALL
> trunk/contrib/server-side/svnstsw/Makefile.am
> trunk/contrib/server-side/svnstsw/NEWS
> trunk/contrib/server-side/svnstsw/README
> trunk/contrib/server-side/svnstsw/autogen.sh (contents, props changed)
Whoa there! Greg Stein worked hard to free us of the hell that
is automake, long ago. Why is it not only creeping back in, but
in the form of a second build system? Our existing build system
supports building in contrib; see svnmucc.
-0 (not -1 only because it's contrib)
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@subversion.tigris.org
For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@subversion.tigris.org
Re: svn commit: r30864 - in trunk/contrib/server-side/svnstsw: . conf doc doc/man include include/svnstsw src
Posted by David Glasser <gl...@davidglasser.net>.
On Wed, Apr 30, 2008 at 3:34 PM, <ep...@google.com> wrote:
> rhansen@tigris.org writes:
>
> > Author: rhansen
> > Date: Wed Apr 30 11:26:00 2008
> > New Revision: 30864
> >
> > Log:
> > Initial import of svnstsw
> >
> > Added:
> > trunk/contrib/server-side/svnstsw/ (props changed)
> > trunk/contrib/server-side/svnstsw/AUTHORS
> > trunk/contrib/server-side/svnstsw/COPYING
> > trunk/contrib/server-side/svnstsw/INSTALL
> > trunk/contrib/server-side/svnstsw/Makefile.am
> > trunk/contrib/server-side/svnstsw/NEWS
> > trunk/contrib/server-side/svnstsw/README
> > trunk/contrib/server-side/svnstsw/autogen.sh (contents, props changed)
>
> Whoa there! Greg Stein worked hard to free us of the hell that
> is automake, long ago. Why is it not only creeping back in, but
> in the form of a second build system? Our existing build system
> supports building in contrib; see svnmucc.
>
> -0 (not -1 only because it's contrib)
I believe the plan was to import his current version, then adjust to
use our build system.
--dave
--
David Glasser | glasser@davidglasser.net | http://www.davidglasser.net/
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@subversion.tigris.org
For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@subversion.tigris.org
Re: svn commit: r30864 - in trunk/contrib/server-side/svnstsw: .
conf doc doc/man include include/svnstsw src
Posted by Greg Hudson <gh...@MIT.EDU>.
On Thu, 2008-05-01 at 13:43 -0400, Richard Hansen wrote:
> I wasn't aware that automake was such a hot-button topic. May I ask
> what the motivation was for removing automake? I'm a relatively
> inexperienced developer and it would be nice to avoid known problems in
> future projects.
I'll try to summarize:
* automake assumes a recursive build system, and we wanted a
non-recursive one. Google for "recursive make" and the first match will
give some reasons to prefer a non-recursive build system. I don't find
them particularly compelling but some people do.
* automake is an extra layer of complexity, which means an extra layer
to debug through when anything goes wrong. autoconf and libtool are in
the same boat, but unlike those two, automake isn't really *necessary*.
No one can easily duplicate the system portability jobs of autoconf and
libtool, but anyone can put together a build system without using
automake.
* The stack of automake, autoconf, and libtool is poorly engineered in
that they are implemented in perl, m4, and sh, so you need to be
proficient in all three languages (plus Makefiles) in order to be able
to debug anything that goes wrong. Removing one of the layers of the
stack lowers this barrier.
I'm not a big fan of Subversion's solution; we've added our own
additional layer of complexity using our own additional language
(Python). However, we do get a somewhat auto-generated Windows build
system for our pain, which we didn't get from automake. And it's a
non-recursive build system.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@subversion.tigris.org
For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@subversion.tigris.org
Re: svn commit: r30864 - in trunk/contrib/server-side/svnstsw: . conf doc doc/man include include/svnstsw src
Posted by Karl Fogel <kf...@red-bean.com>.
Richard Hansen <rh...@bbn.com> writes:
> I wasn't aware that automake was such a hot-button topic. May I ask
> what the motivation was for removing automake? I'm a relatively
> inexperienced developer and it would be nice to avoid known problems
> in future projects.
Well, I don't clearly remember all the reasons, but this link might help
you get to the right area of the mail archives to find out more:
http://subversion.tigris.org/hacking.html#configury
-Karl
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@subversion.tigris.org
For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@subversion.tigris.org
Re: svn commit: r30864 - in trunk/contrib/server-side/svnstsw: .
conf doc doc/man include include/svnstsw src
Posted by "C. Michael Pilato" <cm...@collab.net>.
Richard Hansen wrote:
> I wasn't aware that automake was such a hot-button topic. May I ask
> what the motivation was for removing automake? I'm a relatively
> inexperienced developer and it would be nice to avoid known problems in
> future projects.
I can't recall for sure (that was a looooong time ago) but I suspect that
the annoyance of manually updating Windows build system files (for N
different Windows build systems) every time we added or removed a file
played heavily into it.
--
C. Michael Pilato <cm...@collab.net>
CollabNet <> www.collab.net <> Distributed Development On Demand
Re: svn commit: r30864 - in trunk/contrib/server-side/svnstsw: .
conf doc doc/man include include/svnstsw src
Posted by Richard Hansen <rh...@bbn.com>.
Karl Fogel wrote:
> epg@google.com writes:
>> rhansen@tigris.org writes:
>>> Added:
>>> trunk/contrib/server-side/svnstsw/ (props changed)
>>> trunk/contrib/server-side/svnstsw/AUTHORS
>>> trunk/contrib/server-side/svnstsw/COPYING
>>> trunk/contrib/server-side/svnstsw/INSTALL
>>> trunk/contrib/server-side/svnstsw/Makefile.am
>>> trunk/contrib/server-side/svnstsw/NEWS
>>> trunk/contrib/server-side/svnstsw/README
>>> trunk/contrib/server-side/svnstsw/autogen.sh (contents, props changed)
>>
>> Whoa there! Greg Stein worked hard to free us of the hell that
>> is automake, long ago. Why is it not only creeping back in, but
>> in the form of a second build system? Our existing build system
>> supports building in contrib; see svnmucc.
>>
>> -0 (not -1 only because it's contrib)
>
> In his initial posts, Richard said he plans to integrate svnstsw into
> the Subversion build system; the junk above is temporary. Maybe he
> should have reiterated this in the log message, to save you (and others)
> an alarm, though :-).
Yes, I should have -- sorry about that.
I wasn't aware that automake was such a hot-button topic. May I ask
what the motivation was for removing automake? I'm a relatively
inexperienced developer and it would be nice to avoid known problems in
future projects.
-Richard
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@subversion.tigris.org
For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@subversion.tigris.org
Re: svn commit: r30864 - in trunk/contrib/server-side/svnstsw: . conf doc doc/man include include/svnstsw src
Posted by Karl Fogel <kf...@red-bean.com>.
epg@google.com writes:
> rhansen@tigris.org writes:
>> Added:
>> trunk/contrib/server-side/svnstsw/ (props changed)
>> trunk/contrib/server-side/svnstsw/AUTHORS
>> trunk/contrib/server-side/svnstsw/COPYING
>> trunk/contrib/server-side/svnstsw/INSTALL
>> trunk/contrib/server-side/svnstsw/Makefile.am
>> trunk/contrib/server-side/svnstsw/NEWS
>> trunk/contrib/server-side/svnstsw/README
>> trunk/contrib/server-side/svnstsw/autogen.sh (contents, props changed)
>
> Whoa there! Greg Stein worked hard to free us of the hell that
> is automake, long ago. Why is it not only creeping back in, but
> in the form of a second build system? Our existing build system
> supports building in contrib; see svnmucc.
>
> -0 (not -1 only because it's contrib)
In his initial posts, Richard said he plans to integrate svnstsw into
the Subversion build system; the junk above is temporary. Maybe he
should have reiterated this in the log message, to save you (and others)
an alarm, though :-).
-Karl
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@subversion.tigris.org
For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@subversion.tigris.org