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Posted to soap-user@xml.apache.org by Silvio Fiorito <si...@ntr.net> on 2001/04/18 18:30:07 UTC
Slightly OT, but a serious issue regarding IDE's
Okay, I realize this list isn't dedicated to Java IDE's, but since it's safe
to assume 99.9% of the people on the list are Java developers it's still
slightly relevant. As some of you may have noticed from my messages helping
people with ApacheSOAP->MSSOAP interop, my project involves Java SOAP
clients hitting against Windows SOAP servers. Everything is working great,
except the terrible Java IDE's (Forte and JBuilder) I'm using. Here's my
prob: the IDE's are taking up more resources on my dev machine than all my
server and MSFT tools combined!!! Debugging in JBuilder takes up 100% of
*both* PIII 800MHz CPU's!! Coupled with the fact that nearly all 400MB of
virtual memory are being sucked up by the IDE's themselves (I've got 256MB
of physical memory). How are you fulltime Java developers able to deal with
these shoddy products?? I'm going nuts just after a month. Who the hell had
the bright idea of writing the IDE's in Java rather than native code? Half
my day is spent waiting for the IDE to refresh, the debugger to start up,
and for the IDE to load! To make matters worse, one day JBuilder suddenly
decided to stop responding to *any* input (keyboard or mouse).
I remember using JBuilder (I forget what version) about two years ago and it
was great! It was a native Win32 app back then and I thought it was even
better than the MSFT tools. Nowadays I think it's a big POS (better than
Forte however). So, what I'm wondering is: what IDE's do you guys use?
Especially the people working on ApacheSOAP. At this point I don't care
whether they're Win32, MacOS, or Linux apps.
Thanks for letting me vent and any recommendations you may have,
Silvio
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Re: Slightly OT, but a serious issue regarding IDE's
Posted by Rich Johns <rj...@vignette.com>.
tough to beat emacs + jde.
Silvio Fiorito wrote:
> Okay, I realize this list isn't dedicated to Java IDE's, but since it's safe
> to assume 99.9% of the people on the list are Java developers it's still
> slightly relevant. As some of you may have noticed from my messages helping
> people with ApacheSOAP->MSSOAP interop, my project involves Java SOAP
> clients hitting against Windows SOAP servers. Everything is working great,
> except the terrible Java IDE's (Forte and JBuilder) I'm using. Here's my
> prob: the IDE's are taking up more resources on my dev machine than all my
> server and MSFT tools combined!!! Debugging in JBuilder takes up 100% of
> *both* PIII 800MHz CPU's!! Coupled with the fact that nearly all 400MB of
> virtual memory are being sucked up by the IDE's themselves (I've got 256MB
> of physical memory). How are you fulltime Java developers able to deal with
> these shoddy products?? I'm going nuts just after a month. Who the hell had
> the bright idea of writing the IDE's in Java rather than native code? Half
> my day is spent waiting for the IDE to refresh, the debugger to start up,
> and for the IDE to load! To make matters worse, one day JBuilder suddenly
> decided to stop responding to *any* input (keyboard or mouse).
>
> I remember using JBuilder (I forget what version) about two years ago and it
> was great! It was a native Win32 app back then and I thought it was even
> better than the MSFT tools. Nowadays I think it's a big POS (better than
> Forte however). So, what I'm wondering is: what IDE's do you guys use?
> Especially the people working on ApacheSOAP. At this point I don't care
> whether they're Win32, MacOS, or Linux apps.
>
> Thanks for letting me vent and any recommendations you may have,
> Silvio
>
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RE: Slightly OT, but a serious issue regarding IDE's
Posted by Silvio Fiorito <si...@ntr.net>.
Thanks for all the tips guys! I'll take a look at all the tools mentioned. I
had started out just using Visual Studio and the JDK, but once I needed to
do some debugging I went to JBuilder (then Forte, then back to JBuilder).
Part of the problem is that my employer's budget is really tight lately so
I'm stuck using what I have (Visual Studio or Notepad + JDK) or free stuff
(JBuilder or Forte).
Anyways, thanks again for all your help!
Silvio
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RE: Slightly OT, but a serious issue regarding IDE's
Posted by Silvio Fiorito <si...@ntr.net>.
Thanks for all the tips guys! I'll take a look at all the tools mentioned. I
had started out just using Visual Studio and the JDK, but once I needed to
do some debugging I went to JBuilder (then Forte, then back to JBuilder).
Part of the problem is that my employer's budget is really tight lately so
I'm stuck using what I have (Visual Studio or Notepad + JDK) or free stuff
(JBuilder or Forte).
Anyways, thanks again for all your help!
Silvio
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Re: Slightly OT, but a serious issue regarding IDE's
Posted by Aleksander Slominski <as...@cs.indiana.edu>.
Silvio Fiorito wrote:
> Okay, I realize this list isn't dedicated to Java IDE's, but since it's safe
> to assume 99.9% of the people on the list are Java developers it's still
> slightly relevant. As some of you may have noticed from my messages helping
> people with ApacheSOAP->MSSOAP interop, my project involves Java SOAP
> clients hitting against Windows SOAP servers. Everything is working great,
> except the terrible Java IDE's (Forte and JBuilder) I'm using. Here's my
> prob: the IDE's are taking up more resources on my dev machine than all my
> server and MSFT tools combined!!! Debugging in JBuilder takes up 100% of
> *both* PIII 800MHz CPU's!! Coupled with the fact that nearly all 400MB of
> virtual memory are being sucked up by the IDE's themselves (I've got 256MB
> of physical memory). How are you fulltime Java developers able to deal with
> these shoddy products?? I'm going nuts just after a month. Who the hell had
> the bright idea of writing the IDE's in Java rather than native code? Half
hi,
i use CodeWarrior for Java it is naive IDE with full JDK 1.3 support and it
works almost perfect (hey nothing is perfect :-)). i do not use any visual
programming frills i have just super solid IDE with incremental builds, multiple
projects, support for drag and drop classpath creation (with jars), really nice,
simple fast editor and quite good debugger - i do not really need more... and
it works ok even on my 233Mhz laptop...
alek
ps. i am also recommending TextPad or other simple editors but they do not
support well debugging and project management (though it is now easier with
ANT).
--
Aleksander Slominski, LH 316, IU, http://www.extreme.indiana.edu/~aslom
As I look afar I see neither cherry Nor tinted leaves Just a modest hut
on the coast In the dusk of Autumn nightfall - Fujiwara no Teika(1162-1241)
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Re: Slightly OT, but a serious issue regarding IDE's
Posted by Rich Johns <rj...@vignette.com>.
tough to beat emacs + jde.
Silvio Fiorito wrote:
> Okay, I realize this list isn't dedicated to Java IDE's, but since it's safe
> to assume 99.9% of the people on the list are Java developers it's still
> slightly relevant. As some of you may have noticed from my messages helping
> people with ApacheSOAP->MSSOAP interop, my project involves Java SOAP
> clients hitting against Windows SOAP servers. Everything is working great,
> except the terrible Java IDE's (Forte and JBuilder) I'm using. Here's my
> prob: the IDE's are taking up more resources on my dev machine than all my
> server and MSFT tools combined!!! Debugging in JBuilder takes up 100% of
> *both* PIII 800MHz CPU's!! Coupled with the fact that nearly all 400MB of
> virtual memory are being sucked up by the IDE's themselves (I've got 256MB
> of physical memory). How are you fulltime Java developers able to deal with
> these shoddy products?? I'm going nuts just after a month. Who the hell had
> the bright idea of writing the IDE's in Java rather than native code? Half
> my day is spent waiting for the IDE to refresh, the debugger to start up,
> and for the IDE to load! To make matters worse, one day JBuilder suddenly
> decided to stop responding to *any* input (keyboard or mouse).
>
> I remember using JBuilder (I forget what version) about two years ago and it
> was great! It was a native Win32 app back then and I thought it was even
> better than the MSFT tools. Nowadays I think it's a big POS (better than
> Forte however). So, what I'm wondering is: what IDE's do you guys use?
> Especially the people working on ApacheSOAP. At this point I don't care
> whether they're Win32, MacOS, or Linux apps.
>
> Thanks for letting me vent and any recommendations you may have,
> Silvio
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: soap-user-unsubscribe@xml.apache.org
> For additional commands, email: soap-user-help@xml.apache.org
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Re: Slightly OT, but a serious issue regarding IDE's
Posted by Alexander Schatten <al...@gmx.net>.
Scott Sanders wrote:
>
> All I can say is wow. I love JBuilder, but the only machine it works on
> without slowing ME down is a 1.2GHz with 1 GB of RAM. I can say that
> yes it is usable at some lower level, but various users expect various
> things, and my expectation is that resizing the IDE window won't take
> 3-5 seconds of my time. That is just me though ;-)
>
> Scott
>
maybe there is some problem with your installation/setup or VM. It definitly need no 3-5
seconds. I use JBuilder on 3 different machines, 98, NT, no one more than 128MB and
there is no problem.
the only thing that needs some time under certain circumstances is the debugger (when
using with Enhydra appserver, because the Hotspot is switched off and starting of
enhydra is _very, very_ slow without JIT), but this is a very special problem.
all other tasks are just slightly slower than using a native windows app.
Alex
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Re: Slightly OT, but a serious issue regarding IDE's
Posted by Alexander Schatten <al...@gmx.net>.
Scott Sanders wrote:
>
> All I can say is wow. I love JBuilder, but the only machine it works on
> without slowing ME down is a 1.2GHz with 1 GB of RAM. I can say that
> yes it is usable at some lower level, but various users expect various
> things, and my expectation is that resizing the IDE window won't take
> 3-5 seconds of my time. That is just me though ;-)
>
> Scott
>
maybe there is some problem with your installation/setup or VM. It definitly need no 3-5
seconds. I use JBuilder on 3 different machines, 98, NT, no one more than 128MB and
there is no problem.
the only thing that needs some time under certain circumstances is the debugger (when
using with Enhydra appserver, because the Hotspot is switched off and starting of
enhydra is _very, very_ slow without JIT), but this is a very special problem.
all other tasks are just slightly slower than using a native windows app.
Alex
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Re: Slightly OT, but a serious issue regarding IDE's
Posted by Scott Sanders <sa...@totalsync.com>.
Alexander Schatten wrote:
> Scott Sanders wrote:
>
>
>> Alright, I am going to respond and hope that I can help out with this...
>>
>> With the newer versions of JBuilder (3.5 and 4.0), it is all about the
>> RAM! 256 is NOT enough! You need to dedicate 256 to the JVM heap for
>> JBuilder alone, so I recommend 512 at least. After that, even my
>> Celeron 500 seems alright with JBuilder 4. Also, hide the structure
>> pane and turn off auto-code completion, as that is a lot of CPU
>> overhead. JBuilder works fine after all of this, but I do agree that a
>> Java IDE written in Java is not optimal. Then I switched to Linux-only.
>> I now have a beefy machine with 768 MB of RAM, and JBuilder runs
>> acceptably. But then I dicovered Emacs/JDE, and I use that most of the
>> time now. I still debug in JBuilder, but emacs/jde has me smiling a lot
>> more lately.
>
>
> I cannot support this at all. I use JBuilder for pretty long time. Now I use
> release 4 on a PIII 450 toshiba notebook (win 98), 128 MB ram, parallel is
> running: Interbase, Interserver, Navigator, enhydra appserver, Textpad and I have
> definitely no relevant problems of performance. Only first-time starting up of GUI
> designer is sometimes a little slow.
>
> off course, more RAM would speed it up a little, no question, but work is
> definitely possible without limitations.
>
All I can say is wow. I love JBuilder, but the only machine it works on
without slowing ME down is a 1.2GHz with 1 GB of RAM. I can say that
yes it is usable at some lower level, but various users expect various
things, and my expectation is that resizing the IDE window won't take
3-5 seconds of my time. That is just me though ;-)
Scott
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Re: Slightly OT, but a serious issue regarding IDE's
Posted by Scott Sanders <sa...@totalsync.com>.
Alexander Schatten wrote:
> Scott Sanders wrote:
>
>
>> Alright, I am going to respond and hope that I can help out with this...
>>
>> With the newer versions of JBuilder (3.5 and 4.0), it is all about the
>> RAM! 256 is NOT enough! You need to dedicate 256 to the JVM heap for
>> JBuilder alone, so I recommend 512 at least. After that, even my
>> Celeron 500 seems alright with JBuilder 4. Also, hide the structure
>> pane and turn off auto-code completion, as that is a lot of CPU
>> overhead. JBuilder works fine after all of this, but I do agree that a
>> Java IDE written in Java is not optimal. Then I switched to Linux-only.
>> I now have a beefy machine with 768 MB of RAM, and JBuilder runs
>> acceptably. But then I dicovered Emacs/JDE, and I use that most of the
>> time now. I still debug in JBuilder, but emacs/jde has me smiling a lot
>> more lately.
>
>
> I cannot support this at all. I use JBuilder for pretty long time. Now I use
> release 4 on a PIII 450 toshiba notebook (win 98), 128 MB ram, parallel is
> running: Interbase, Interserver, Navigator, enhydra appserver, Textpad and I have
> definitely no relevant problems of performance. Only first-time starting up of GUI
> designer is sometimes a little slow.
>
> off course, more RAM would speed it up a little, no question, but work is
> definitely possible without limitations.
>
All I can say is wow. I love JBuilder, but the only machine it works on
without slowing ME down is a 1.2GHz with 1 GB of RAM. I can say that
yes it is usable at some lower level, but various users expect various
things, and my expectation is that resizing the IDE window won't take
3-5 seconds of my time. That is just me though ;-)
Scott
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Re: Slightly OT, but a serious issue regarding IDE's
Posted by Alexander Schatten <al...@gmx.net>.
Scott Sanders wrote:
> Alright, I am going to respond and hope that I can help out with this...
>
> With the newer versions of JBuilder (3.5 and 4.0), it is all about the
> RAM! 256 is NOT enough! You need to dedicate 256 to the JVM heap for
> JBuilder alone, so I recommend 512 at least. After that, even my
> Celeron 500 seems alright with JBuilder 4. Also, hide the structure
> pane and turn off auto-code completion, as that is a lot of CPU
> overhead. JBuilder works fine after all of this, but I do agree that a
> Java IDE written in Java is not optimal. Then I switched to Linux-only.
> I now have a beefy machine with 768 MB of RAM, and JBuilder runs
> acceptably. But then I dicovered Emacs/JDE, and I use that most of the
> time now. I still debug in JBuilder, but emacs/jde has me smiling a lot
> more lately.
I cannot support this at all. I use JBuilder for pretty long time. Now I use
release 4 on a PIII 450 toshiba notebook (win 98), 128 MB ram, parallel is
running: Interbase, Interserver, Navigator, enhydra appserver, Textpad and I have
definitely no relevant problems of performance. Only first-time starting up of GUI
designer is sometimes a little slow.
off course, more RAM would speed it up a little, no question, but work is
definitely possible without limitations.
Alex
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Re: Slightly OT, but a serious issue regarding IDE's
Posted by Alexander Schatten <al...@gmx.net>.
Scott Sanders wrote:
> Alright, I am going to respond and hope that I can help out with this...
>
> With the newer versions of JBuilder (3.5 and 4.0), it is all about the
> RAM! 256 is NOT enough! You need to dedicate 256 to the JVM heap for
> JBuilder alone, so I recommend 512 at least. After that, even my
> Celeron 500 seems alright with JBuilder 4. Also, hide the structure
> pane and turn off auto-code completion, as that is a lot of CPU
> overhead. JBuilder works fine after all of this, but I do agree that a
> Java IDE written in Java is not optimal. Then I switched to Linux-only.
> I now have a beefy machine with 768 MB of RAM, and JBuilder runs
> acceptably. But then I dicovered Emacs/JDE, and I use that most of the
> time now. I still debug in JBuilder, but emacs/jde has me smiling a lot
> more lately.
I cannot support this at all. I use JBuilder for pretty long time. Now I use
release 4 on a PIII 450 toshiba notebook (win 98), 128 MB ram, parallel is
running: Interbase, Interserver, Navigator, enhydra appserver, Textpad and I have
definitely no relevant problems of performance. Only first-time starting up of GUI
designer is sometimes a little slow.
off course, more RAM would speed it up a little, no question, but work is
definitely possible without limitations.
Alex
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Re: Slightly OT, but a serious issue regarding IDE's
Posted by Scott Sanders <sa...@totalsync.com>.
Alright, I am going to respond and hope that I can help out with this...
With the newer versions of JBuilder (3.5 and 4.0), it is all about the
RAM! 256 is NOT enough! You need to dedicate 256 to the JVM heap for
JBuilder alone, so I recommend 512 at least. After that, even my
Celeron 500 seems alright with JBuilder 4. Also, hide the structure
pane and turn off auto-code completion, as that is a lot of CPU
overhead. JBuilder works fine after all of this, but I do agree that a
Java IDE written in Java is not optimal. Then I switched to Linux-only.
I now have a beefy machine with 768 MB of RAM, and JBuilder runs
acceptably. But then I dicovered Emacs/JDE, and I use that most of the
time now. I still debug in JBuilder, but emacs/jde has me smiling a lot
more lately.
On another note, find an old copy of JBuilder 3, as its front-end is
written in C/C++, and on Windows is a dream ;-)
Scott Sanders
Silvio Fiorito wrote:
> Okay, I realize this list isn't dedicated to Java IDE's, but since it's safe
> to assume 99.9% of the people on the list are Java developers it's still
> slightly relevant. As some of you may have noticed from my messages helping
> people with ApacheSOAP->MSSOAP interop, my project involves Java SOAP
> clients hitting against Windows SOAP servers. Everything is working great,
> except the terrible Java IDE's (Forte and JBuilder) I'm using. Here's my
> prob: the IDE's are taking up more resources on my dev machine than all my
> server and MSFT tools combined!!! Debugging in JBuilder takes up 100% of
> *both* PIII 800MHz CPU's!! Coupled with the fact that nearly all 400MB of
> virtual memory are being sucked up by the IDE's themselves (I've got 256MB
> of physical memory). How are you fulltime Java developers able to deal with
> these shoddy products?? I'm going nuts just after a month. Who the hell had
> the bright idea of writing the IDE's in Java rather than native code? Half
> my day is spent waiting for the IDE to refresh, the debugger to start up,
> and for the IDE to load! To make matters worse, one day JBuilder suddenly
> decided to stop responding to *any* input (keyboard or mouse).
>
> I remember using JBuilder (I forget what version) about two years ago and it
> was great! It was a native Win32 app back then and I thought it was even
> better than the MSFT tools. Nowadays I think it's a big POS (better than
> Forte however). So, what I'm wondering is: what IDE's do you guys use?
> Especially the people working on ApacheSOAP. At this point I don't care
> whether they're Win32, MacOS, or Linux apps.
>
> Thanks for letting me vent and any recommendations you may have,
> Silvio
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: soap-user-unsubscribe@xml.apache.org
> For additional commands, email: soap-user-help@xml.apache.org
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Re: Slightly OT, but a serious issue regarding IDE's
Posted by Scott Sanders <sa...@totalsync.com>.
Alright, I am going to respond and hope that I can help out with this...
With the newer versions of JBuilder (3.5 and 4.0), it is all about the
RAM! 256 is NOT enough! You need to dedicate 256 to the JVM heap for
JBuilder alone, so I recommend 512 at least. After that, even my
Celeron 500 seems alright with JBuilder 4. Also, hide the structure
pane and turn off auto-code completion, as that is a lot of CPU
overhead. JBuilder works fine after all of this, but I do agree that a
Java IDE written in Java is not optimal. Then I switched to Linux-only.
I now have a beefy machine with 768 MB of RAM, and JBuilder runs
acceptably. But then I dicovered Emacs/JDE, and I use that most of the
time now. I still debug in JBuilder, but emacs/jde has me smiling a lot
more lately.
On another note, find an old copy of JBuilder 3, as its front-end is
written in C/C++, and on Windows is a dream ;-)
Scott Sanders
Silvio Fiorito wrote:
> Okay, I realize this list isn't dedicated to Java IDE's, but since it's safe
> to assume 99.9% of the people on the list are Java developers it's still
> slightly relevant. As some of you may have noticed from my messages helping
> people with ApacheSOAP->MSSOAP interop, my project involves Java SOAP
> clients hitting against Windows SOAP servers. Everything is working great,
> except the terrible Java IDE's (Forte and JBuilder) I'm using. Here's my
> prob: the IDE's are taking up more resources on my dev machine than all my
> server and MSFT tools combined!!! Debugging in JBuilder takes up 100% of
> *both* PIII 800MHz CPU's!! Coupled with the fact that nearly all 400MB of
> virtual memory are being sucked up by the IDE's themselves (I've got 256MB
> of physical memory). How are you fulltime Java developers able to deal with
> these shoddy products?? I'm going nuts just after a month. Who the hell had
> the bright idea of writing the IDE's in Java rather than native code? Half
> my day is spent waiting for the IDE to refresh, the debugger to start up,
> and for the IDE to load! To make matters worse, one day JBuilder suddenly
> decided to stop responding to *any* input (keyboard or mouse).
>
> I remember using JBuilder (I forget what version) about two years ago and it
> was great! It was a native Win32 app back then and I thought it was even
> better than the MSFT tools. Nowadays I think it's a big POS (better than
> Forte however). So, what I'm wondering is: what IDE's do you guys use?
> Especially the people working on ApacheSOAP. At this point I don't care
> whether they're Win32, MacOS, or Linux apps.
>
> Thanks for letting me vent and any recommendations you may have,
> Silvio
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: soap-user-unsubscribe@xml.apache.org
> For additional commands, email: soap-user-help@xml.apache.org
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Re: Slightly OT, but a serious issue regarding IDE's
Posted by Aleksander Slominski <as...@cs.indiana.edu>.
Silvio Fiorito wrote:
> Okay, I realize this list isn't dedicated to Java IDE's, but since it's safe
> to assume 99.9% of the people on the list are Java developers it's still
> slightly relevant. As some of you may have noticed from my messages helping
> people with ApacheSOAP->MSSOAP interop, my project involves Java SOAP
> clients hitting against Windows SOAP servers. Everything is working great,
> except the terrible Java IDE's (Forte and JBuilder) I'm using. Here's my
> prob: the IDE's are taking up more resources on my dev machine than all my
> server and MSFT tools combined!!! Debugging in JBuilder takes up 100% of
> *both* PIII 800MHz CPU's!! Coupled with the fact that nearly all 400MB of
> virtual memory are being sucked up by the IDE's themselves (I've got 256MB
> of physical memory). How are you fulltime Java developers able to deal with
> these shoddy products?? I'm going nuts just after a month. Who the hell had
> the bright idea of writing the IDE's in Java rather than native code? Half
hi,
i use CodeWarrior for Java it is naive IDE with full JDK 1.3 support and it
works almost perfect (hey nothing is perfect :-)). i do not use any visual
programming frills i have just super solid IDE with incremental builds, multiple
projects, support for drag and drop classpath creation (with jars), really nice,
simple fast editor and quite good debugger - i do not really need more... and
it works ok even on my 233Mhz laptop...
alek
ps. i am also recommending TextPad or other simple editors but they do not
support well debugging and project management (though it is now easier with
ANT).
--
Aleksander Slominski, LH 316, IU, http://www.extreme.indiana.edu/~aslom
As I look afar I see neither cherry Nor tinted leaves Just a modest hut
on the coast In the dusk of Autumn nightfall - Fujiwara no Teika(1162-1241)
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Re: Slightly OT, but a serious issue regarding IDE's
Posted by William Leung <wl...@nortelnetworks.com>.
I also use TextPad for most of the Java Development. It works excellent. My
only complaint is that the "Continue Evaluation" dialog box keeps coming out
once a while :-\
Cory Isaacson wrote:
> Silvio,
>
> We do all of our work using TextPad or other editors, which are light, fast
> and work very well. The only drawback is you don't get the debugging
> support. If we really need a debugger (rarely), then we resort to using an
> IDE.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Cory
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Silvio Fiorito [mailto:silvio@ntr.net]
> Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2001 9:30 AM
> To: Soap-User@Xml. Apache. Org
> Subject: Slightly OT, but a serious issue regarding IDE's
>
> Okay, I realize this list isn't dedicated to Java IDE's, but since it's safe
> to assume 99.9% of the people on the list are Java developers it's still
> slightly relevant. As some of you may have noticed from my messages helping
> people with ApacheSOAP->MSSOAP interop, my project involves Java SOAP
> clients hitting against Windows SOAP servers. Everything is working great,
> except the terrible Java IDE's (Forte and JBuilder) I'm using. Here's my
> prob: the IDE's are taking up more resources on my dev machine than all my
> server and MSFT tools combined!!! Debugging in JBuilder takes up 100% of
> *both* PIII 800MHz CPU's!! Coupled with the fact that nearly all 400MB of
> virtual memory are being sucked up by the IDE's themselves (I've got 256MB
> of physical memory). How are you fulltime Java developers able to deal with
> these shoddy products?? I'm going nuts just after a month. Who the hell had
> the bright idea of writing the IDE's in Java rather than native code? Half
> my day is spent waiting for the IDE to refresh, the debugger to start up,
> and for the IDE to load! To make matters worse, one day JBuilder suddenly
> decided to stop responding to *any* input (keyboard or mouse).
>
> I remember using JBuilder (I forget what version) about two years ago and it
> was great! It was a native Win32 app back then and I thought it was even
> better than the MSFT tools. Nowadays I think it's a big POS (better than
> Forte however). So, what I'm wondering is: what IDE's do you guys use?
> Especially the people working on ApacheSOAP. At this point I don't care
> whether they're Win32, MacOS, or Linux apps.
>
> Thanks for letting me vent and any recommendations you may have,
> Silvio
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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Re: Slightly OT, but a serious issue regarding IDE's
Posted by William Leung <wl...@nortelnetworks.com>.
I also use TextPad for most of the Java Development. It works excellent. My
only complaint is that the "Continue Evaluation" dialog box keeps coming out
once a while :-\
Cory Isaacson wrote:
> Silvio,
>
> We do all of our work using TextPad or other editors, which are light, fast
> and work very well. The only drawback is you don't get the debugging
> support. If we really need a debugger (rarely), then we resort to using an
> IDE.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Cory
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Silvio Fiorito [mailto:silvio@ntr.net]
> Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2001 9:30 AM
> To: Soap-User@Xml. Apache. Org
> Subject: Slightly OT, but a serious issue regarding IDE's
>
> Okay, I realize this list isn't dedicated to Java IDE's, but since it's safe
> to assume 99.9% of the people on the list are Java developers it's still
> slightly relevant. As some of you may have noticed from my messages helping
> people with ApacheSOAP->MSSOAP interop, my project involves Java SOAP
> clients hitting against Windows SOAP servers. Everything is working great,
> except the terrible Java IDE's (Forte and JBuilder) I'm using. Here's my
> prob: the IDE's are taking up more resources on my dev machine than all my
> server and MSFT tools combined!!! Debugging in JBuilder takes up 100% of
> *both* PIII 800MHz CPU's!! Coupled with the fact that nearly all 400MB of
> virtual memory are being sucked up by the IDE's themselves (I've got 256MB
> of physical memory). How are you fulltime Java developers able to deal with
> these shoddy products?? I'm going nuts just after a month. Who the hell had
> the bright idea of writing the IDE's in Java rather than native code? Half
> my day is spent waiting for the IDE to refresh, the debugger to start up,
> and for the IDE to load! To make matters worse, one day JBuilder suddenly
> decided to stop responding to *any* input (keyboard or mouse).
>
> I remember using JBuilder (I forget what version) about two years ago and it
> was great! It was a native Win32 app back then and I thought it was even
> better than the MSFT tools. Nowadays I think it's a big POS (better than
> Forte however). So, what I'm wondering is: what IDE's do you guys use?
> Especially the people working on ApacheSOAP. At this point I don't care
> whether they're Win32, MacOS, or Linux apps.
>
> Thanks for letting me vent and any recommendations you may have,
> Silvio
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: soap-user-unsubscribe@xml.apache.org
> For additional commands, email: soap-user-help@xml.apache.org
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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RE: Slightly OT, but a serious issue regarding IDE's
Posted by Cory Isaacson <ci...@capita2.com>.
Silvio,
We do all of our work using TextPad or other editors, which are light, fast
and work very well. The only drawback is you don't get the debugging
support. If we really need a debugger (rarely), then we resort to using an
IDE.
Thanks,
Cory
-----Original Message-----
From: Silvio Fiorito [mailto:silvio@ntr.net]
Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2001 9:30 AM
To: Soap-User@Xml. Apache. Org
Subject: Slightly OT, but a serious issue regarding IDE's
Okay, I realize this list isn't dedicated to Java IDE's, but since it's safe
to assume 99.9% of the people on the list are Java developers it's still
slightly relevant. As some of you may have noticed from my messages helping
people with ApacheSOAP->MSSOAP interop, my project involves Java SOAP
clients hitting against Windows SOAP servers. Everything is working great,
except the terrible Java IDE's (Forte and JBuilder) I'm using. Here's my
prob: the IDE's are taking up more resources on my dev machine than all my
server and MSFT tools combined!!! Debugging in JBuilder takes up 100% of
*both* PIII 800MHz CPU's!! Coupled with the fact that nearly all 400MB of
virtual memory are being sucked up by the IDE's themselves (I've got 256MB
of physical memory). How are you fulltime Java developers able to deal with
these shoddy products?? I'm going nuts just after a month. Who the hell had
the bright idea of writing the IDE's in Java rather than native code? Half
my day is spent waiting for the IDE to refresh, the debugger to start up,
and for the IDE to load! To make matters worse, one day JBuilder suddenly
decided to stop responding to *any* input (keyboard or mouse).
I remember using JBuilder (I forget what version) about two years ago and it
was great! It was a native Win32 app back then and I thought it was even
better than the MSFT tools. Nowadays I think it's a big POS (better than
Forte however). So, what I'm wondering is: what IDE's do you guys use?
Especially the people working on ApacheSOAP. At this point I don't care
whether they're Win32, MacOS, or Linux apps.
Thanks for letting me vent and any recommendations you may have,
Silvio
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RE: Slightly OT, but a serious issue regarding IDE's
Posted by Magnús Þór Torfason <ma...@handtolvur.is>.
TextPad + SUN JDK + Apache jakarta-ant
http://www.textpad.com
http://java.sun.com
http://jakarta.apache.org/ant
;-)
(I use IBM jikes for fast compiles, http://www.ibm.com/whatever)
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Silvio Fiorito [mailto:silvio@ntr.net]
> Sent: 18. apríl 2001 16:30
> To: Soap-User@Xml. Apache. Org
> Subject: Slightly OT, but a serious issue regarding IDE's
>
>
> Okay, I realize this list isn't dedicated to Java IDE's, but
> since it's safe
> to assume 99.9% of the people on the list are Java developers it's still
> slightly relevant. As some of you may have noticed from my
> messages helping
> people with ApacheSOAP->MSSOAP interop, my project involves Java SOAP
> clients hitting against Windows SOAP servers. Everything is working great,
> except the terrible Java IDE's (Forte and JBuilder) I'm using. Here's my
> prob: the IDE's are taking up more resources on my dev machine than all my
> server and MSFT tools combined!!! Debugging in JBuilder takes up 100% of
> *both* PIII 800MHz CPU's!! Coupled with the fact that nearly all 400MB of
> virtual memory are being sucked up by the IDE's themselves (I've got 256MB
> of physical memory). How are you fulltime Java developers able to
> deal with
> these shoddy products?? I'm going nuts just after a month. Who
> the hell had
> the bright idea of writing the IDE's in Java rather than native code? Half
> my day is spent waiting for the IDE to refresh, the debugger to start up,
> and for the IDE to load! To make matters worse, one day JBuilder suddenly
> decided to stop responding to *any* input (keyboard or mouse).
>
> I remember using JBuilder (I forget what version) about two years
> ago and it
> was great! It was a native Win32 app back then and I thought it was even
> better than the MSFT tools. Nowadays I think it's a big POS (better than
> Forte however). So, what I'm wondering is: what IDE's do you guys use?
> Especially the people working on ApacheSOAP. At this point I don't care
> whether they're Win32, MacOS, or Linux apps.
>
> Thanks for letting me vent and any recommendations you may have,
> Silvio
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: soap-user-unsubscribe@xml.apache.org
> For additional commands, email: soap-user-help@xml.apache.org
>
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RE: Slightly OT, but a serious issue regarding IDE's
Posted by Cory Isaacson <ci...@capita2.com>.
Silvio,
We do all of our work using TextPad or other editors, which are light, fast
and work very well. The only drawback is you don't get the debugging
support. If we really need a debugger (rarely), then we resort to using an
IDE.
Thanks,
Cory
-----Original Message-----
From: Silvio Fiorito [mailto:silvio@ntr.net]
Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2001 9:30 AM
To: Soap-User@Xml. Apache. Org
Subject: Slightly OT, but a serious issue regarding IDE's
Okay, I realize this list isn't dedicated to Java IDE's, but since it's safe
to assume 99.9% of the people on the list are Java developers it's still
slightly relevant. As some of you may have noticed from my messages helping
people with ApacheSOAP->MSSOAP interop, my project involves Java SOAP
clients hitting against Windows SOAP servers. Everything is working great,
except the terrible Java IDE's (Forte and JBuilder) I'm using. Here's my
prob: the IDE's are taking up more resources on my dev machine than all my
server and MSFT tools combined!!! Debugging in JBuilder takes up 100% of
*both* PIII 800MHz CPU's!! Coupled with the fact that nearly all 400MB of
virtual memory are being sucked up by the IDE's themselves (I've got 256MB
of physical memory). How are you fulltime Java developers able to deal with
these shoddy products?? I'm going nuts just after a month. Who the hell had
the bright idea of writing the IDE's in Java rather than native code? Half
my day is spent waiting for the IDE to refresh, the debugger to start up,
and for the IDE to load! To make matters worse, one day JBuilder suddenly
decided to stop responding to *any* input (keyboard or mouse).
I remember using JBuilder (I forget what version) about two years ago and it
was great! It was a native Win32 app back then and I thought it was even
better than the MSFT tools. Nowadays I think it's a big POS (better than
Forte however). So, what I'm wondering is: what IDE's do you guys use?
Especially the people working on ApacheSOAP. At this point I don't care
whether they're Win32, MacOS, or Linux apps.
Thanks for letting me vent and any recommendations you may have,
Silvio
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RE: Slightly OT, but a serious issue regarding IDE's
Posted by Magnús Þór Torfason <ma...@handtolvur.is>.
TextPad + SUN JDK + Apache jakarta-ant
http://www.textpad.com
http://java.sun.com
http://jakarta.apache.org/ant
;-)
(I use IBM jikes for fast compiles, http://www.ibm.com/whatever)
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Silvio Fiorito [mailto:silvio@ntr.net]
> Sent: 18. apríl 2001 16:30
> To: Soap-User@Xml. Apache. Org
> Subject: Slightly OT, but a serious issue regarding IDE's
>
>
> Okay, I realize this list isn't dedicated to Java IDE's, but
> since it's safe
> to assume 99.9% of the people on the list are Java developers it's still
> slightly relevant. As some of you may have noticed from my
> messages helping
> people with ApacheSOAP->MSSOAP interop, my project involves Java SOAP
> clients hitting against Windows SOAP servers. Everything is working great,
> except the terrible Java IDE's (Forte and JBuilder) I'm using. Here's my
> prob: the IDE's are taking up more resources on my dev machine than all my
> server and MSFT tools combined!!! Debugging in JBuilder takes up 100% of
> *both* PIII 800MHz CPU's!! Coupled with the fact that nearly all 400MB of
> virtual memory are being sucked up by the IDE's themselves (I've got 256MB
> of physical memory). How are you fulltime Java developers able to
> deal with
> these shoddy products?? I'm going nuts just after a month. Who
> the hell had
> the bright idea of writing the IDE's in Java rather than native code? Half
> my day is spent waiting for the IDE to refresh, the debugger to start up,
> and for the IDE to load! To make matters worse, one day JBuilder suddenly
> decided to stop responding to *any* input (keyboard or mouse).
>
> I remember using JBuilder (I forget what version) about two years
> ago and it
> was great! It was a native Win32 app back then and I thought it was even
> better than the MSFT tools. Nowadays I think it's a big POS (better than
> Forte however). So, what I'm wondering is: what IDE's do you guys use?
> Especially the people working on ApacheSOAP. At this point I don't care
> whether they're Win32, MacOS, or Linux apps.
>
> Thanks for letting me vent and any recommendations you may have,
> Silvio
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: soap-user-unsubscribe@xml.apache.org
> For additional commands, email: soap-user-help@xml.apache.org
>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
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