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Posted to server-dev@james.apache.org by Danny Angus <da...@apache.org> on 2002/08/15 00:23:25 UTC
Next question.. (was: Should we remove ant? )
Ok,
The next question is should we use Maven to build the site..?
I have used Maven to build a sample of the James site (didn't config all the
developers) in my home dir, without changing any of the source of the docs,
what do we think?
http://jakarta.apache.org/~danny/
d.
> Danny Angus wrote:
> > Let me clarify..
> >
> > I think we should remove ant binaries from cvs, I'm totally cool with
> > modifying & keeping the script, then "ant" or "build" will do the thing.
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RE: Next question.. (was: Should we remove ant? )
Posted by Danny Angus <da...@apache.org>.
actually omit the <build></build> from project.xml
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Vincent Keunen [mailto:vincent.keunen@manex.be]
> Sent: 16 August 2002 09:33
> To: James Developers List
> Subject: Re: Next question.. (was: Should we remove ant? )
>
>
> How did you do that (leave out the "build element")? When I do a maven
> site:generate, it does build also (see the line:
>
> F:\Dev\cvs-ext\jakarta-james>maven site:generate
>
> below in my excerpt).
>
>
> Danny Angus wrote:
>
> >I left out the build element, and just used the site:generate goal.
> >James build is quite happy at it is IMHO.
> >
> >d.
> >
> >
> >
> >>-----Original Message-----
> >>From: Vincent Keunen [mailto:vincent.keunen@manex.be]
> >>Sent: 15 August 2002 20:13
> >>To: James Developers List
> >>Subject: Re: Next question.. (was: Should we remove ant? )
> >>
> >>
> >>I just did a small test but am stuck... I wanted to test Maven for
> >>James, so I grabbed the latest source of james, wrote the (required by
> >>Maven) project.xml file (attached to this message), which just took me
> >>10 minutes then tried to generate the site (which includes compiling the
> >>james sources). There it breaks and I don't know why. Probably I would
> >>need to tweak the build process of James, but I'm not comfortable in
> >>doing that.
> >>
> >>The error I get is:
> >>
> >>F:\Dev\cvs-ext\jakarta-james>maven site:generate
> >> __ __
> >>| \/ |__ Jakarta _ ___
> >>| |\/| / _` \ V / -_) ' \ ~ intelligent projects ~
> >>|_| |_\__,_|\_/\___|_||_| v. 1.0-b5-dev
> >>
> >>jakarta-james (james) v2.0a3
> >>F:\Dev\cvs-ext\jakarta-james
> >>
> >> [available] DEPRECATED - <available> used to override an existing
> >>property.
> >> Build file should not reuse the same property name for
> different values.
> >>site:generate:
> >>init-dvsl-tag:
> >>
> >>jdepend:generate-report:
> >>java:prepare-filesystem:
> >>
> >>java:compile:
> >> [javac] Compiling 150 source files to
> >>F:\Dev\cvs-ext\jakarta-james\target\classes
> >> [javac] [ERROR]
> >>F:\Dev\cvs-ext\jakarta-james\src\java\org\apache\james\BaseConnect
> >>ionHandler.java:10:
> >>cannot resolve symbol
> >> [javac] [ERROR] symbol : class ConnectionHandler
> >> [javac] [ERROR] location: package connection
> >> [javac] [ERROR] import
> >>org.apache.avalon.cornerstone.services.connection.ConnectionHandler;
> >> [javac]
> >>[ERROR] ^
> >> [javac] [ERROR]
> >>F:\Dev\cvs-ext\jakarta-james\src\java\org\apache\james\BaseConnect
> >>ionHandler.java:11:
> >>cannot resolve symbol
> >> [javac] [ERROR] symbol : class Configurable
> >> [javac] [ERROR] location: package configuration
> >> [javac] [ERROR] import
> >>org.apache.avalon.framework.configuration.Configurable;
> >> [javac] [ERROR] ^
> >>
> >>Running ant for james does the compilation ok, so it must be that Maven
> >>requires some tweaking (apparently, Maven uses ant to build the project,
> >>so I would suppose it uses the build.xml?...)
> >>
> >>Can someone help?
> >>
> >>
> >>
>
> --
> !try; do()
> --
> Vincent Keunen, Ir, http://vincent.keunen.net
> Manex, rue Wagner 93, BE-4100 Boncelles, Belgium
> Our site: http://www.manex.be
>
>
>
> --
> To unsubscribe, e-mail:
<ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
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Re: Next question.. (was: Should we remove ant? )
Posted by Vincent Keunen <vi...@manex.be>.
How did you do that (leave out the "build element")? When I do a maven
site:generate, it does build also (see the line:
F:\Dev\cvs-ext\jakarta-james>maven site:generate
below in my excerpt).
Danny Angus wrote:
>I left out the build element, and just used the site:generate goal.
>James build is quite happy at it is IMHO.
>
>d.
>
>
>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: Vincent Keunen [mailto:vincent.keunen@manex.be]
>>Sent: 15 August 2002 20:13
>>To: James Developers List
>>Subject: Re: Next question.. (was: Should we remove ant? )
>>
>>
>>I just did a small test but am stuck... I wanted to test Maven for
>>James, so I grabbed the latest source of james, wrote the (required by
>>Maven) project.xml file (attached to this message), which just took me
>>10 minutes then tried to generate the site (which includes compiling the
>>james sources). There it breaks and I don't know why. Probably I would
>>need to tweak the build process of James, but I'm not comfortable in
>>doing that.
>>
>>The error I get is:
>>
>>F:\Dev\cvs-ext\jakarta-james>maven site:generate
>> __ __
>>| \/ |__ Jakarta _ ___
>>| |\/| / _` \ V / -_) ' \ ~ intelligent projects ~
>>|_| |_\__,_|\_/\___|_||_| v. 1.0-b5-dev
>>
>>jakarta-james (james) v2.0a3
>>F:\Dev\cvs-ext\jakarta-james
>>
>> [available] DEPRECATED - <available> used to override an existing
>>property.
>> Build file should not reuse the same property name for different values.
>>site:generate:
>>init-dvsl-tag:
>>
>>jdepend:generate-report:
>>java:prepare-filesystem:
>>
>>java:compile:
>> [javac] Compiling 150 source files to
>>F:\Dev\cvs-ext\jakarta-james\target\classes
>> [javac] [ERROR]
>>F:\Dev\cvs-ext\jakarta-james\src\java\org\apache\james\BaseConnect
>>ionHandler.java:10:
>>cannot resolve symbol
>> [javac] [ERROR] symbol : class ConnectionHandler
>> [javac] [ERROR] location: package connection
>> [javac] [ERROR] import
>>org.apache.avalon.cornerstone.services.connection.ConnectionHandler;
>> [javac]
>>[ERROR] ^
>> [javac] [ERROR]
>>F:\Dev\cvs-ext\jakarta-james\src\java\org\apache\james\BaseConnect
>>ionHandler.java:11:
>>cannot resolve symbol
>> [javac] [ERROR] symbol : class Configurable
>> [javac] [ERROR] location: package configuration
>> [javac] [ERROR] import
>>org.apache.avalon.framework.configuration.Configurable;
>> [javac] [ERROR] ^
>>
>>Running ant for james does the compilation ok, so it must be that Maven
>>requires some tweaking (apparently, Maven uses ant to build the project,
>>so I would suppose it uses the build.xml?...)
>>
>>Can someone help?
>>
>>
>>
--
!try; do()
--
Vincent Keunen, Ir, http://vincent.keunen.net
Manex, rue Wagner 93, BE-4100 Boncelles, Belgium
Our site: http://www.manex.be
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RE: Next question.. (was: Should we remove ant? )
Posted by Danny Angus <da...@apache.org>.
I left out the build element, and just used the site:generate goal.
James build is quite happy at it is IMHO.
d.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Vincent Keunen [mailto:vincent.keunen@manex.be]
> Sent: 15 August 2002 20:13
> To: James Developers List
> Subject: Re: Next question.. (was: Should we remove ant? )
>
>
> I just did a small test but am stuck... I wanted to test Maven for
> James, so I grabbed the latest source of james, wrote the (required by
> Maven) project.xml file (attached to this message), which just took me
> 10 minutes then tried to generate the site (which includes compiling the
> james sources). There it breaks and I don't know why. Probably I would
> need to tweak the build process of James, but I'm not comfortable in
> doing that.
>
> The error I get is:
>
> F:\Dev\cvs-ext\jakarta-james>maven site:generate
> __ __
> | \/ |__ Jakarta _ ___
> | |\/| / _` \ V / -_) ' \ ~ intelligent projects ~
> |_| |_\__,_|\_/\___|_||_| v. 1.0-b5-dev
>
> jakarta-james (james) v2.0a3
> F:\Dev\cvs-ext\jakarta-james
>
> [available] DEPRECATED - <available> used to override an existing
> property.
> Build file should not reuse the same property name for different values.
> site:generate:
> init-dvsl-tag:
>
> jdepend:generate-report:
> java:prepare-filesystem:
>
> java:compile:
> [javac] Compiling 150 source files to
> F:\Dev\cvs-ext\jakarta-james\target\classes
> [javac] [ERROR]
> F:\Dev\cvs-ext\jakarta-james\src\java\org\apache\james\BaseConnect
> ionHandler.java:10:
> cannot resolve symbol
> [javac] [ERROR] symbol : class ConnectionHandler
> [javac] [ERROR] location: package connection
> [javac] [ERROR] import
> org.apache.avalon.cornerstone.services.connection.ConnectionHandler;
> [javac]
> [ERROR] ^
> [javac] [ERROR]
> F:\Dev\cvs-ext\jakarta-james\src\java\org\apache\james\BaseConnect
> ionHandler.java:11:
> cannot resolve symbol
> [javac] [ERROR] symbol : class Configurable
> [javac] [ERROR] location: package configuration
> [javac] [ERROR] import
> org.apache.avalon.framework.configuration.Configurable;
> [javac] [ERROR] ^
>
> Running ant for james does the compilation ok, so it must be that Maven
> requires some tweaking (apparently, Maven uses ant to build the project,
> so I would suppose it uses the build.xml?...)
>
> Can someone help?
>
>
>
> Vincent Keunen wrote:
>
> > I have read quite a bit and played a little with Maven: it looks
> > pretty interesting. Its goal is to standardize jakarta projects
> > developments (while Forrest seems to be related to web publishing
> > only). It seems to be getting more and more acceptance:
> > http://jakarta.apache.org/turbine/maven/powered.html
> >
> > I installed it: very easy: download, unpack, set 2 env. vars and
> > that's it! I was also pretty impressed by the first launch: it got a
> > number of standard jar files it needed from a server (commons modules,
> > logging, regexp,... most from jakarta).
> >
> > I did modify the sample projects.file for one of our projects: easy
> > too. Now I'm trying to solve a compiling problem, but otherwize, it
> > looks great.
> >
> > The documentation on the site is pretty good for a young project...
> >
> > I'll keep studying the tool, but it seems nice (and the people working
> > on it seem to be bright...)
> >
> >
> > Noel J. Bergman wrote:
> >
> >> Charles,
> >>
> >> Maven is a subproject of Turbine. Anakia is a subproject of Velocity.
> >> Anything that deprecates Velocity is A Good Thing.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>> If there is an Apache option, I think we should take it in
> preference to
> >>> non-Apache options.
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >> Apache Forrest *is* an Apache project. It is, FAIAP, a Cocoon
> >> subproject.
> >>
> >> Maven: http://jakarta.apache.org/turbine/maven/
> >> Anakia: http://jakarta.apache.org/velocity/anakia.html
> >> Forrest: http://xml.apache.org/forrest/
> >>
> >> Anakia appears to be the most primitive of the bunch. Forrest is a way
> >> better tool in the same space, and it is also an active tool.
> Maven has
> >> other goals, but one of its features includes site publication.
> >>
> >> I wonder why the Maven folks and Forrest folks don't get together, so
> >> that
> >> Maven can focus on all of the backend project management, and Forrest
> >> can
> >> focus on publishing the web content.
> >>
> >> --- Noel
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> To unsubscribe, e-mail:
> >> <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
> >> For additional commands, e-mail:
> >> <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
>
> --
> !try; do()
> --
> Vincent Keunen, Ir, http://vincent.keunen.net
> Manex, rue Wagner 93, BE-4100 Boncelles, Belgium
> Our site: http://www.manex.be
>
>
--
To unsubscribe, e-mail: <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
For additional commands, e-mail: <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
Re: Next question.. (was: Should we remove ant? )
Posted by Vincent Keunen <vi...@manex.be>.
I just did a small test but am stuck... I wanted to test Maven for
James, so I grabbed the latest source of james, wrote the (required by
Maven) project.xml file (attached to this message), which just took me
10 minutes then tried to generate the site (which includes compiling the
james sources). There it breaks and I don't know why. Probably I would
need to tweak the build process of James, but I'm not comfortable in
doing that.
The error I get is:
F:\Dev\cvs-ext\jakarta-james>maven site:generate
__ __
| \/ |__ Jakarta _ ___
| |\/| / _` \ V / -_) ' \ ~ intelligent projects ~
|_| |_\__,_|\_/\___|_||_| v. 1.0-b5-dev
jakarta-james (james) v2.0a3
F:\Dev\cvs-ext\jakarta-james
[available] DEPRECATED - <available> used to override an existing
property.
Build file should not reuse the same property name for different values.
site:generate:
init-dvsl-tag:
jdepend:generate-report:
java:prepare-filesystem:
java:compile:
[javac] Compiling 150 source files to
F:\Dev\cvs-ext\jakarta-james\target\classes
[javac] [ERROR]
F:\Dev\cvs-ext\jakarta-james\src\java\org\apache\james\BaseConnectionHandler.java:10:
cannot resolve symbol
[javac] [ERROR] symbol : class ConnectionHandler
[javac] [ERROR] location: package connection
[javac] [ERROR] import
org.apache.avalon.cornerstone.services.connection.ConnectionHandler;
[javac]
[ERROR] ^
[javac] [ERROR]
F:\Dev\cvs-ext\jakarta-james\src\java\org\apache\james\BaseConnectionHandler.java:11:
cannot resolve symbol
[javac] [ERROR] symbol : class Configurable
[javac] [ERROR] location: package configuration
[javac] [ERROR] import
org.apache.avalon.framework.configuration.Configurable;
[javac] [ERROR] ^
Running ant for james does the compilation ok, so it must be that Maven
requires some tweaking (apparently, Maven uses ant to build the project,
so I would suppose it uses the build.xml?...)
Can someone help?
Vincent Keunen wrote:
> I have read quite a bit and played a little with Maven: it looks
> pretty interesting. Its goal is to standardize jakarta projects
> developments (while Forrest seems to be related to web publishing
> only). It seems to be getting more and more acceptance:
> http://jakarta.apache.org/turbine/maven/powered.html
>
> I installed it: very easy: download, unpack, set 2 env. vars and
> that's it! I was also pretty impressed by the first launch: it got a
> number of standard jar files it needed from a server (commons modules,
> logging, regexp,... most from jakarta).
>
> I did modify the sample projects.file for one of our projects: easy
> too. Now I'm trying to solve a compiling problem, but otherwize, it
> looks great.
>
> The documentation on the site is pretty good for a young project...
>
> I'll keep studying the tool, but it seems nice (and the people working
> on it seem to be bright...)
>
>
> Noel J. Bergman wrote:
>
>> Charles,
>>
>> Maven is a subproject of Turbine. Anakia is a subproject of Velocity.
>> Anything that deprecates Velocity is A Good Thing.
>>
>>
>>
>>> If there is an Apache option, I think we should take it in preference to
>>> non-Apache options.
>>>
>>
>>
>> Apache Forrest *is* an Apache project. It is, FAIAP, a Cocoon
>> subproject.
>>
>> Maven: http://jakarta.apache.org/turbine/maven/
>> Anakia: http://jakarta.apache.org/velocity/anakia.html
>> Forrest: http://xml.apache.org/forrest/
>>
>> Anakia appears to be the most primitive of the bunch. Forrest is a way
>> better tool in the same space, and it is also an active tool. Maven has
>> other goals, but one of its features includes site publication.
>>
>> I wonder why the Maven folks and Forrest folks don't get together, so
>> that
>> Maven can focus on all of the backend project management, and Forrest
>> can
>> focus on publishing the web content.
>>
>> --- Noel
>>
>>
>> --
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail:
>> <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
>> For additional commands, e-mail:
>> <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
>>
>>
>>
>
--
!try; do()
--
Vincent Keunen, Ir, http://vincent.keunen.net
Manex, rue Wagner 93, BE-4100 Boncelles, Belgium
Our site: http://www.manex.be
Re: Next question.. (was: Should we remove ant? )
Posted by Vincent Keunen <vi...@manex.be>.
I have read quite a bit and played a little with Maven: it looks pretty
interesting. Its goal is to standardize jakarta projects developments
(while Forrest seems to be related to web publishing only). It seems to
be getting more and more acceptance:
http://jakarta.apache.org/turbine/maven/powered.html
I installed it: very easy: download, unpack, set 2 env. vars and that's
it! I was also pretty impressed by the first launch: it got a number of
standard jar files it needed from a server (commons modules, logging,
regexp,... most from jakarta).
I did modify the sample projects.file for one of our projects: easy too.
Now I'm trying to solve a compiling problem, but otherwize, it looks great.
The documentation on the site is pretty good for a young project...
I'll keep studying the tool, but it seems nice (and the people working
on it seem to be bright...)
Noel J. Bergman wrote:
>Charles,
>
>Maven is a subproject of Turbine. Anakia is a subproject of Velocity.
>Anything that deprecates Velocity is A Good Thing.
>
>
>
>>If there is an Apache option, I think we should take it in preference to
>>non-Apache options.
>>
>>
>
>Apache Forrest *is* an Apache project. It is, FAIAP, a Cocoon subproject.
>
>Maven: http://jakarta.apache.org/turbine/maven/
>Anakia: http://jakarta.apache.org/velocity/anakia.html
>Forrest: http://xml.apache.org/forrest/
>
>Anakia appears to be the most primitive of the bunch. Forrest is a way
>better tool in the same space, and it is also an active tool. Maven has
>other goals, but one of its features includes site publication.
>
>I wonder why the Maven folks and Forrest folks don't get together, so that
>Maven can focus on all of the backend project management, and Forrest can
>focus on publishing the web content.
>
> --- Noel
>
>
>--
>To unsubscribe, e-mail: <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
>For additional commands, e-mail: <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
>
>
>
--
!try; do()
--
Vincent Keunen, Ir, http://vincent.keunen.net
Manex, rue Wagner 93, BE-4100 Boncelles, Belgium
Our site: http://www.manex.be
Re: Next question.. (was: Should we remove ant? )
Posted by Stephen McConnell <mc...@apache.org>.
Nicola Ken Barozzi wrote:
>
> Vincent Keunen wrote:
>
>> Ok, so to summarize, we were discussing about choosing between maven
>> and forrest, and now you are telling us that centipede is also nice
>> to look at... So you're making our choice harder! ;-)
>
>
> ;-)
>
>> Nicola, how does Centipede positions itself in regard to maven and
>> forrest?
>
>
> Ok, let me give you a broad picture of what is happening.
>
> We needed a system to make cool documentation out of the Java source
> code of the Apache projects, hence Alexandria was born.
> Now I'm ready to commit new code into it from donations, that will
> make it a complete ant-based solution for source code comprehension.
>
> We needed a nice system to make site documentation and have automated
> site publishing and community helper resources: Forrest was born,
> mainly out of the need of the xml.apache.org site.
> It will play well with other projects such as Alexandria, given that
> they prepare the stuff in Forrest DTD, similar to XHTML, with only the
> semantical tags.
>
> We needed a system to make automated builds out of the latest and
> greatest code... hence Gump was born, and it works well.
> The problem is that it's difficult to set up, so we are working to
> make it easier to use.
>
> I needed an easy system to make builds based on Ant, that would tie
> all the above projects together and add library and plugin download to
> the mix, hence Centipede.
> I have worked well with the Ant folks, and the new XmlProperty task
> and part of the new embed proposal come from Centipede.
>
> Above all, it's Forrest Gump in Alexandria on a Centipede ;-)
>
> Maven was born out of a proposal for Gump replacement that was geared
> towards building Turbine.
> Eventually Jason forked and continued on the Turbine site.
> I proposed collaboration, since Centipede already had plugins and
> Maven didn't, but I got very harsh replies.
> Then Jason got plugins working with Jelly and Werkz, and abandoned Ant
> as a framework.
>
> The bottom line: I recommend you to wait before final releases of
> *both* projects, and then raise a vote.
+1
(from Steve who doesn't have any voting rights here)
;-)
>
>
> Thanks :-)
>
--
Stephen J. McConnell
OSM SARL
digital products for a global economy
mailto:mcconnell@osm.net
http://www.osm.net
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Forrest, Maven, Centipede, Alexandria, Gump... (was: Re: Next
question.. (was: Should we remove ant? ))
Posted by Vincent Keunen <vi...@manex.be>.
Thanks Nicola.
FYI, I posted a similar question to Maven dev and will summarize here
their point of view.
Nicola Ken Barozzi wrote:
>
> Vincent Keunen wrote:
>
>> Nicola, how does Centipede positions itself in regard to maven and
>> forrest?
>
>
> Ok, let me give you a broad picture of what is happening.
>
> [...]
--
!try; do()
--
Vincent Keunen, Ir, http://vincent.keunen.net
Manex, rue Wagner 93, BE-4100 Boncelles, Belgium
Our site: http://www.manex.be
--
To unsubscribe, e-mail: <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
For additional commands, e-mail: <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
Re: Next question.. (was: Should we remove ant? )
Posted by Nicola Ken Barozzi <ni...@apache.org>.
Vincent Keunen wrote:
> Ok, so to summarize, we were discussing about choosing between maven and
> forrest, and now you are telling us that centipede is also nice to look
> at... So you're making our choice harder! ;-)
;-)
> Nicola, how does Centipede positions itself in regard to maven and forrest?
Ok, let me give you a broad picture of what is happening.
We needed a system to make cool documentation out of the Java source
code of the Apache projects, hence Alexandria was born.
Now I'm ready to commit new code into it from donations, that will make
it a complete ant-based solution for source code comprehension.
We needed a nice system to make site documentation and have automated
site publishing and community helper resources: Forrest was born, mainly
out of the need of the xml.apache.org site.
It will play well with other projects such as Alexandria, given that
they prepare the stuff in Forrest DTD, similar to XHTML, with only the
semantical tags.
We needed a system to make automated builds out of the latest and
greatest code... hence Gump was born, and it works well.
The problem is that it's difficult to set up, so we are working to make
it easier to use.
I needed an easy system to make builds based on Ant, that would tie all
the above projects together and add library and plugin download to the
mix, hence Centipede.
I have worked well with the Ant folks, and the new XmlProperty task and
part of the new embed proposal come from Centipede.
Above all, it's Forrest Gump in Alexandria on a Centipede ;-)
Maven was born out of a proposal for Gump replacement that was geared
towards building Turbine.
Eventually Jason forked and continued on the Turbine site.
I proposed collaboration, since Centipede already had plugins and Maven
didn't, but I got very harsh replies.
Then Jason got plugins working with Jelly and Werkz, and abandoned Ant
as a framework.
The bottom line: I recommend you to wait before final releases of *both*
projects, and then raise a vote.
Thanks :-)
--
Nicola Ken Barozzi nicolaken@apache.org
- verba volant, scripta manent -
(discussions get forgotten, just code remains)
---------------------------------------------------------------------
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Re: Next question.. (was: Should we remove ant? )
Posted by Vincent Keunen <vi...@manex.be>.
Ok, so to summarize, we were discussing about choosing between maven and
forrest, and now you are telling us that centiped is also nice to look
at... So you're making our choice harder! ;-)
Nicola, how does Centipede positions itself in regard to maven and forrest?
Nicola Ken Barozzi wrote:
> Forrest does only documentation, and we will make a Forrest plugin to
> Maven available as soon as we finish the current discussion on
> finalizing the DTD.
>
> So Maven and Forrest will work together, but this will not
> (fortunately) stop Maven developers to maintain their Velocity based
> site creation system.
>
>
> As for the build system, I find Maven slow and alpha.
>
> Slow it is (remember to check beta5, notb4), and is based on a yet2be
> released jakarta commons sandbox called Jelly, and Werkz, not Apache.
>
> Some Turbine folks also had reservations on using Maven current beta
> for the next release.
>
>
> I have a similar project based on Ant, that works with the Gump
> descriptors, called Centipede, on www.krysalis.org.
>
> It integrates a forrest plugin, and has many more plugins.
> It also downloads dependencies and is very easy to extend, since it
> uses Ant 1.5.
> We had plugins (called cents) long before Maven, and our system is
> used on Jakarta POI jakarta.apache.org/poi and Forrest itself.
>
> Currently we are in the process of making dependency-based compilation
> work OOTB with the Gump descriptor, more on that soon :-)
>
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Re: Next question.. (was: Should we remove ant? )
Posted by Nicola Ken Barozzi <ni...@apache.org>.
Noel J. Bergman wrote:
>>>I wonder why the Maven folks and Forrest folks don't get together, so
>>> that
>>>Maven can focus on all of the backend project management, and Forrest
>>> can
>>>focus on publishing the web content.
>>>
>>B'cos that'd destroy all the infighting, bitchin', sniping and spoil half
>>the fun.. ;-)
>
> I'm laughing, but also serious. Maven's primary focus is project
> management, not web content; and Forrest's primary focus is web content, not
> project management. They would make an great pairing. Since Nico is here
> talking about Forrest, and is one of the maintainers on Forrest, I'd really
> like to hear his thoughts.
Forrest does only documentation, and we will make a Forrest plugin to
Maven available as soon as we finish the current discussion on
finalizing the DTD.
So Maven and Forrest will work together, but this will not (fortunately)
stop Maven developers to maintain their Velocity based site creation system.
As for the build system, I find Maven slow and alpha.
Slow it is (remember to check beta5, notb4), and is based on a yet2be
released jakarta commons sandbox called Jelly, and Werkz, not Apache.
Some Turbine folks also had reservations on using Maven current beta for
the next release.
I have a similar project based on Ant, that works with the Gump
descriptors, called Centipede, on www.krysalis.org.
It integrates a forrest plugin, and has many more plugins.
It also downloads dependencies and is very easy to extend, since it uses
Ant 1.5.
We had plugins (called cents) long before Maven, and our system is used
on Jakarta POI jakarta.apache.org/poi and Forrest itself.
Currently we are in the process of making dependency-based compilation
work OOTB with the Gump descriptor, more on that soon :-)
--
Nicola Ken Barozzi nicolaken@apache.org
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(discussions get forgotten, just code remains)
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Re: Next question.. (was: Should we remove ant? )
Posted by Vincent Keunen <vi...@manex.be>.
I agree with you. It took me only a few hours to read, install, setup
Maven on one of our projects (and we only need one person to use it to
manage the site: not everybody has to learn/use it). It there is a
decision towards Maven, I could try and volunteer to set it up for
James. That would be my first real contribution... Let me know.
ps: of the "looking good" stuff of Maven, apart from already mentionned
metrics, changelog,... I also see: standard way of documenting,
pointers to resources (mailing lists, archives, required modules), use
of Ant, cross referenced sources, integration with other tools (gump,
cvs, junit...), central jar repository (ala CPAN), style reports...
I'll subscribe to their mailing lists to have a feel for their activity
and let you know.
Danny Angus wrote:
>Yeah, I'm open minded about Forrest and Maven,
>
>I'm looking for domain engineering tools (for work) just now, as well as
>considering James web-site, and I can see how Forrest and Gump fit my
>requirements for domain engineering tools, but as far as James website is
>concerned my only reqirements were..
>
>1/ direct, unintrusive, replacement for anakia to build our existing
>site(although I've moved it to straight XSLT at the moment, so it doesnt
>depend on anything but ant right now)
>
>2/ shallow learning curve and tidy results for lazy non-style-conscious site
>authors/maintainers.
>
>Maven also provides (as you'll see in the demo) some primitive metrics, by
>file and by commiter, and an auto generated changelog, all of which I liked.
>
>Forrest, correct me if I'm wrong, would provide better support for complex
>document sets, domain level management of sub-domain document sets no
>metrics and require greater initial effort.
>
>I cant find a "getting started" for Forrest, and to be honest I don't think
>James simple requirements merit the expenditure of much effort, just a
>simple route to a coherent generated style, co-ordinated with other jakarta
>sub-projects.
>
>d.
>
>
>
>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: Noel J. Bergman [mailto:noel@devtech.com]
>>Sent: 15 August 2002 19:59
>>To: James Developers List
>>Subject: RE: Next question.. (was: Should we remove ant? )
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>>I wonder why the Maven folks and Forrest folks don't get together, so
>>>>
>>>>
>>that
>>
>>
>>>>Maven can focus on all of the backend project management, and Forrest
>>>>
>>>>
>>can
>>
>>
>>>>focus on publishing the web content.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>B'cos that'd destroy all the infighting, bitchin', sniping and
>>>
>>>
>>spoil half
>>
>>
>>>the fun.. ;-)
>>>
>>>
>>I'm laughing, but also serious. Maven's primary focus is project
>>management, not web content; and Forrest's primary focus is web
>>content, not
>>project management. They would make an great pairing. Since Nico is here
>>talking about Forrest, and is one of the maintainers on Forrest,
>>I'd really
>>like to hear his thoughts.
>>
>> --- Noel
>>
>>
>>--
>>To unsubscribe, e-mail:
>><ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
>>For additional commands, e-mail:
>><ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
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>
>
>
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--
Vincent Keunen, Ir, http://vincent.keunen.net
Manex, rue Wagner 93, BE-4100 Boncelles, Belgium
Our site: http://www.manex.be
RE: Next question.. (was: Should we remove ant? )
Posted by Danny Angus <da...@apache.org>.
Yeah, I'm open minded about Forrest and Maven,
I'm looking for domain engineering tools (for work) just now, as well as
considering James web-site, and I can see how Forrest and Gump fit my
requirements for domain engineering tools, but as far as James website is
concerned my only reqirements were..
1/ direct, unintrusive, replacement for anakia to build our existing
site(although I've moved it to straight XSLT at the moment, so it doesnt
depend on anything but ant right now)
2/ shallow learning curve and tidy results for lazy non-style-conscious site
authors/maintainers.
Maven also provides (as you'll see in the demo) some primitive metrics, by
file and by commiter, and an auto generated changelog, all of which I liked.
Forrest, correct me if I'm wrong, would provide better support for complex
document sets, domain level management of sub-domain document sets no
metrics and require greater initial effort.
I cant find a "getting started" for Forrest, and to be honest I don't think
James simple requirements merit the expenditure of much effort, just a
simple route to a coherent generated style, co-ordinated with other jakarta
sub-projects.
d.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Noel J. Bergman [mailto:noel@devtech.com]
> Sent: 15 August 2002 19:59
> To: James Developers List
> Subject: RE: Next question.. (was: Should we remove ant? )
>
>
> > > I wonder why the Maven folks and Forrest folks don't get together, so
> that
> > > Maven can focus on all of the backend project management, and Forrest
> can
> > > focus on publishing the web content.
>
> > B'cos that'd destroy all the infighting, bitchin', sniping and
> spoil half
> > the fun.. ;-)
>
> I'm laughing, but also serious. Maven's primary focus is project
> management, not web content; and Forrest's primary focus is web
> content, not
> project management. They would make an great pairing. Since Nico is here
> talking about Forrest, and is one of the maintainers on Forrest,
> I'd really
> like to hear his thoughts.
>
> --- Noel
>
>
> --
> To unsubscribe, e-mail:
> <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
> For additional commands, e-mail:
> <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
>
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RE: Next question.. (was: Should we remove ant? )
Posted by "Noel J. Bergman" <no...@devtech.com>.
> > I wonder why the Maven folks and Forrest folks don't get together, so
that
> > Maven can focus on all of the backend project management, and Forrest
can
> > focus on publishing the web content.
> B'cos that'd destroy all the infighting, bitchin', sniping and spoil half
> the fun.. ;-)
I'm laughing, but also serious. Maven's primary focus is project
management, not web content; and Forrest's primary focus is web content, not
project management. They would make an great pairing. Since Nico is here
talking about Forrest, and is one of the maintainers on Forrest, I'd really
like to hear his thoughts.
--- Noel
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RE: Next question.. (was: Should we remove ant? )
Posted by Danny Angus <da...@apache.org>.
> I wonder why the Maven folks and Forrest folks don't get together, so that
> Maven can focus on all of the backend project management, and Forrest can
> focus on publishing the web content.
B'cos that'd destroy all the infighting, bitchin', sniping and spoil half
the fun.. ;-)
d.
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RE: Next question.. (was: Should we remove ant? )
Posted by "Noel J. Bergman" <no...@devtech.com>.
Charles,
Maven is a subproject of Turbine. Anakia is a subproject of Velocity.
Anything that deprecates Velocity is A Good Thing.
> If there is an Apache option, I think we should take it in preference to
> non-Apache options.
Apache Forrest *is* an Apache project. It is, FAIAP, a Cocoon subproject.
Maven: http://jakarta.apache.org/turbine/maven/
Anakia: http://jakarta.apache.org/velocity/anakia.html
Forrest: http://xml.apache.org/forrest/
Anakia appears to be the most primitive of the bunch. Forrest is a way
better tool in the same space, and it is also an active tool. Maven has
other goals, but one of its features includes site publication.
I wonder why the Maven folks and Forrest folks don't get together, so that
Maven can focus on all of the backend project management, and Forrest can
focus on publishing the web content.
--- Noel
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Re: Next question.. (was: Should we remove ant? )
Posted by Charles Benett <ch...@benett1.demon.co.uk>.
If there is an Apache option, I think we should take it in preference to
non-Apache options. And the Avalon site looks very similar to Danny's
Maven'd James site.
Charles
Nicola Ken Barozzi wrote:
> I would propose Apache Forrest instead...
> The site would be updated automatically from CVS for you, and is
> completely skinnable.
>
> Here is the last manually updated Forrest site:
> http://xml.apache.org/forrest/
>
> Here is the hourly updated from CVS Forrest site:
> http://www.krysalis.org/forrest/
>
> The Avalon site is done by a Forrest subsystem:
> http://jakarta.apache.org/avalon/
>
>
> Danny Angus wrote:
>
>> Ok,
>>
>> The next question is should we use Maven to build the site..?
>> I have used Maven to build a sample of the James site (didn't config
>> all the
>> developers) in my home dir, without changing any of the source of the
>> docs,
>> what do we think?
>>
>> http://jakarta.apache.org/~danny/
>>
>>
>> d.
>>
>>
>>
>>> Danny Angus wrote:
>>>
>>>> Let me clarify..
>>>>
>>>> I think we should remove ant binaries from cvs, I'm totally cool with
>>>> modifying & keeping the script, then "ant" or "build" will do the
>>>> thing.
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail:
>> <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
>> For additional commands, e-mail:
>> <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
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Re: Next question.. (was: Should we remove ant? )
Posted by Nicola Ken Barozzi <ni...@apache.org>.
I would propose Apache Forrest instead...
The site would be updated automatically from CVS for you, and is
completely skinnable.
Here is the last manually updated Forrest site:
http://xml.apache.org/forrest/
Here is the hourly updated from CVS Forrest site:
http://www.krysalis.org/forrest/
The Avalon site is done by a Forrest subsystem:
http://jakarta.apache.org/avalon/
Danny Angus wrote:
> Ok,
>
> The next question is should we use Maven to build the site..?
> I have used Maven to build a sample of the James site (didn't config all the
> developers) in my home dir, without changing any of the source of the docs,
> what do we think?
>
> http://jakarta.apache.org/~danny/
>
>
> d.
>
>
>
>>Danny Angus wrote:
>>
>>>Let me clarify..
>>>
>>>I think we should remove ant binaries from cvs, I'm totally cool with
>>>modifying & keeping the script, then "ant" or "build" will do the thing.
>>
>
>
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> To unsubscribe, e-mail: <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
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>
>
>
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(discussions get forgotten, just code remains)
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Re: Next question.. (was: Should we remove ant? )
Posted by Charles Benett <ch...@benett1.demon.co.uk>.
Danny,
What's the advantage of using Maven?
Where does it come from? What licence?
I think your demo looks fine (apart from lacking the graphics for
Jakarta and James)
Charles
Danny Angus wrote:
> Ok,
>
> The next question is should we use Maven to build the site..?
> I have used Maven to build a sample of the James site (didn't config all the
> developers) in my home dir, without changing any of the source of the docs,
> what do we think?
>
> http://jakarta.apache.org/~danny/
>
>
> d.
>
>
>
>>Danny Angus wrote:
>>
>>>Let me clarify..
>>>
>>>I think we should remove ant binaries from cvs, I'm totally cool with
>>>modifying & keeping the script, then "ant" or "build" will do the thing.
>>
>
>
> --
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
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>
>
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RE: Next question.. (was: Should we remove ant? )
Posted by "Noel J. Bergman" <no...@devtech.com>.
I like the look of that, Danny. :-)
--- Noel
-----Original Message-----
From: Danny Angus [mailto:danny@apache.org]
Sent: Wednesday, August 14, 2002 18:23
To: James Developers List
Subject: Next question.. (was: Should we remove ant? )
Ok,
The next question is should we use Maven to build the site..?
I have used Maven to build a sample of the James site (didn't config all the
developers) in my home dir, without changing any of the source of the docs,
what do we think?
http://jakarta.apache.org/~danny/
d.
> Danny Angus wrote:
> > Let me clarify..
> >
> > I think we should remove ant binaries from cvs, I'm totally cool with
> > modifying & keeping the script, then "ant" or "build" will do the thing.
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