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Posted to dev@avalon.apache.org by Jeff Turner <je...@apache.org> on 2002/08/21 13:18:15 UTC
[RT] Maven as an Avalon container (Re: Maven, notes from XtC with James Strachan and Vincent Massol)
On Tue, Aug 20, 2002 at 08:35:36PM -0400, Jason van Zyl wrote:
...
> I can keep making Avalon project descriptors, help others make them,
> help with a forrest plugin if that's what you would prefer to use for
> your docs and I will help keep them updated.
FYI, I have a basic Forrest plugin working. It is *very* basic though,
and not yet configurable through ${maven.*} properties. Most of the work
involves fixing Forrest Ant scripts.
A random thought wrt. Maven and Avalon: imagine if Maven had an embedded
Avalon container (phoenix or something), with which plugins could
register Components to be deployed (eg phoenix .sars). This could have a
number of uses:
- Heavy plugins like Forrest could use a client/server architecture. Eg,
the Forrest plugin deploys a 'server' component (Cocoon), and then
when the user says 'maven forrest:transform', an RMI request is made
to the server: "render directory X". Saves lots of startup time.
- One could have 'asynchronous' Maven targets, eg a plugin that scans
xdocs/* every 5s, and regenerates any docs that change, or a
nightly-build plugin, or other continuous integration-type things like
Gump.
This could possibly be implemented with an 'avalon' plugin, plus a Jelly
taglib for invoking, deploying and undeploying Components. Plugins can
then use the jelly taglib to launch whatever stateful components they
want.
As the subject says, just a RT..
--Jeff
> At any rate I am hopeful that Maven can provide what you need to make
> things easier, generally more comprehensible for developers and
> especially make life easier for your users.
>
> > James spent quite a bit of time talking of Jelly. Way cool, check it
> > out: http://jakarta.apache.org/commons/sandbox/jelly/
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > - Paul
--
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Re: [RT] Maven as an Avalon container (Re: Maven, notes from XtC
with James Strachan and Vincent Massol)
Posted by Jason van Zyl <ja...@zenplex.com>.
On Wed, 2002-08-21 at 18:09, Peter Donald wrote:
> On Wed, 21 Aug 2002 21:18, Jeff Turner wrote:
> > On Tue, Aug 20, 2002 at 08:35:36PM -0400, Jason van Zyl wrote:
> > ...
> >
> > > I can keep making Avalon project descriptors, help others make them,
> > > help with a forrest plugin if that's what you would prefer to use for
> > > your docs and I will help keep them updated.
> >
> > FYI, I have a basic Forrest plugin working. It is *very* basic though,
> > and not yet configurable through ${maven.*} properties. Most of the work
> > involves fixing Forrest Ant scripts.
>
> Kool - want to send it to the list so we can see how it looks ? ;)
>
> > A random thought wrt. Maven and Avalon: imagine if Maven had an embedded
> > Avalon container (phoenix or something), with which plugins could
> > register Components to be deployed (eg phoenix .sars). This could have a
> > number of uses:
>
> Theres two things in the above;
>
> 1. a server that kicks of a maven process after certain events - whether they
> be time based, based on changes in external environment or due to messages
> from external processes
This is where Drools and Werkflow come in. Zenplex hired Bob McWhirter
for a while to get Werkflow going and Bob has subsequently been working
on Drools and Werkflow. So we'll be integrating a real workflow system
based a real rules engine that uses the RETE algorithm. It's described
here:
http://www.drools.org/pdf/drools-guide.pdf
None of the other OSS workflow packages that I know of use a real rules
engine.
> 2. Each maven process allows dynamic addition of services to runtime as a
> means of extensions
>
> Both are very useful things. (2) will in effect allow you to integrate into
> virtually any command/processes based activity. Someone told me that they
> used myrmidon to control their home stereo system by adding a special service
> in ;)
>
> > - Heavy plugins like Forrest could use a client/server architecture. Eg,
> > the Forrest plugin deploys a 'server' component (Cocoon), and then
> > when the user says 'maven forrest:transform', an RMI request is made
> > to the server: "render directory X". Saves lots of startup time.
> >
> > - One could have 'asynchronous' Maven targets, eg a plugin that scans
> > xdocs/* every 5s, and regenerates any docs that change, or a
> > nightly-build plugin, or other continuous integration-type things like
> > Gump.
> >
> > This could possibly be implemented with an 'avalon' plugin, plus a Jelly
> > taglib for invoking, deploying and undeploying Components. Plugins can
> > then use the jelly taglib to launch whatever stateful components they
> > want.
> >
> > As the subject says, just a RT..
>
> kool one at that.
>
> --
> Cheers,
>
> Peter Donald
> ---------------------------------------------------
> "Therefore it can be said that victorious warriors
> win first, and then go to battle, while defeated
> warriors go to battle first, and then seek to win."
> - Sun Tzu, the Art Of War
> ---------------------------------------------------
>
>
> --
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
> For additional commands, e-mail: <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
--
jvz.
Jason van Zyl
jason@apache.org
http://tambora.zenplex.org
In short, man creates for himself a new religion of a rational
and technical order to justify his work and to be justified in it.
-- Jacques Ellul, The Technological Society
--
To unsubscribe, e-mail: <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
For additional commands, e-mail: <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
Re: [RT] Maven as an Avalon container (Re: Maven, notes from XtC
with James Strachan and Vincent Massol)
Posted by Paul Hammant <Pa...@yahoo.com>.
Peter,
>>A random thought wrt. Maven and Avalon: imagine if Maven had an embedded
>>Avalon container (phoenix or something), with which plugins could
>>register Components to be deployed (eg phoenix .sars). This could have a
>>number of uses:
>>
>>
>
>Theres two things in the above;
>
>1. a server that kicks of a maven process after certain events - whether they
>be time based, based on changes in external environment or due to messages
>from external processes
>
A Maven invoking Phoenix mounted block would be cool. One that
responded to cron events could replace CruiseControl's basic features.
- Paul
--
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Re: [RT] Maven as an Avalon container (Re: Maven, notes from XtC with James Strachan and Vincent Massol)
Posted by Peter Donald <pe...@apache.org>.
On Wed, 21 Aug 2002 21:18, Jeff Turner wrote:
> On Tue, Aug 20, 2002 at 08:35:36PM -0400, Jason van Zyl wrote:
> ...
>
> > I can keep making Avalon project descriptors, help others make them,
> > help with a forrest plugin if that's what you would prefer to use for
> > your docs and I will help keep them updated.
>
> FYI, I have a basic Forrest plugin working. It is *very* basic though,
> and not yet configurable through ${maven.*} properties. Most of the work
> involves fixing Forrest Ant scripts.
Kool - want to send it to the list so we can see how it looks ? ;)
> A random thought wrt. Maven and Avalon: imagine if Maven had an embedded
> Avalon container (phoenix or something), with which plugins could
> register Components to be deployed (eg phoenix .sars). This could have a
> number of uses:
Theres two things in the above;
1. a server that kicks of a maven process after certain events - whether they
be time based, based on changes in external environment or due to messages
from external processes
2. Each maven process allows dynamic addition of services to runtime as a
means of extensions
Both are very useful things. (2) will in effect allow you to integrate into
virtually any command/processes based activity. Someone told me that they
used myrmidon to control their home stereo system by adding a special service
in ;)
> - Heavy plugins like Forrest could use a client/server architecture. Eg,
> the Forrest plugin deploys a 'server' component (Cocoon), and then
> when the user says 'maven forrest:transform', an RMI request is made
> to the server: "render directory X". Saves lots of startup time.
>
> - One could have 'asynchronous' Maven targets, eg a plugin that scans
> xdocs/* every 5s, and regenerates any docs that change, or a
> nightly-build plugin, or other continuous integration-type things like
> Gump.
>
> This could possibly be implemented with an 'avalon' plugin, plus a Jelly
> taglib for invoking, deploying and undeploying Components. Plugins can
> then use the jelly taglib to launch whatever stateful components they
> want.
>
> As the subject says, just a RT..
kool one at that.
--
Cheers,
Peter Donald
---------------------------------------------------
"Therefore it can be said that victorious warriors
win first, and then go to battle, while defeated
warriors go to battle first, and then seek to win."
- Sun Tzu, the Art Of War
---------------------------------------------------
--
To unsubscribe, e-mail: <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
For additional commands, e-mail: <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
Re: [RT] Maven as an Avalon container (Re: Maven, notes from XtC
with James Strachan and Vincent Massol)
Posted by Jason van Zyl <ja...@zenplex.com>.
On Wed, 2002-08-21 at 07:24, Jason van Zyl wrote:
> > - Heavy plugins like Forrest could use a client/server architecture. Eg,
> > the Forrest plugin deploys a 'server' component (Cocoon), and then
> > when the user says 'maven forrest:transform', an RMI request is made
> > to the server: "render directory X". Saves lots of startup time.
>
> We plans for long-lived apps like consoles and the reactor will
> definitely be a long-lived process.
>
Ouch! I need the coffee infusion. That should be: we plan for tools like
a Maven console and the reactor to be long-lived processes. I've been
working on a Swing-based Maven console for a while but it will be quite
a while before I show anything. I use it but it's highly 'quirky' we'll
say. The reactor on the other hand is coming along, and is one of
priorities and it will be the basis of continuous integration processes.
--
jvz.
Jason van Zyl
jason@apache.org
http://tambora.zenplex.org
In short, man creates for himself a new religion of a rational
and technical order to justify his work and to be justified in it.
-- Jacques Ellul, The Technological Society
--
To unsubscribe, e-mail: <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
For additional commands, e-mail: <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
Re: [RT] Maven as an Avalon container
Posted by Jason van Zyl <ja...@zenplex.com>.
On Wed, 2002-08-21 at 10:12, Jeff Turner wrote:
> On Wed, Aug 21, 2002 at 07:24:18AM -0400, Jason van Zyl wrote:
> > On Wed, 2002-08-21 at 07:18, Jeff Turner wrote:
> ...
> > > A random thought wrt. Maven and Avalon: imagine if Maven had an embedded
> > > Avalon container (phoenix or something), with which plugins could
> > > register Components to be deployed (eg phoenix .sars). This could have a
> > > number of uses:
> >
> > It's not a random thought actually, I wanted plexus and Maven to share
> > the same container whatever that happens to be. Right now plexus and
> > Maven are using the same mechanis for processing plugins. Primitive, but
> > I'm waiting for things to settle down around here before flipping the
> > container in Plexus.
>
> Great! I gather Plexus is some sort of homegrown container? There's not
> much info about it. Will it end up at Jakarta?
It's a homegrown container, first based on Fortress and then on Tweety
when there were some glitches in Fortress with the move from Composable
to Serviceable. These were fixed but I just stuck with the tweety
variant as I'm really playing with components and trying to figure out
exactly how I want the overall thing to work. I hope to dump it and use
whatever you guys decide is the standard container. I have no desire to
write a full-blown container.
> > I've chatted with Peter about this too. I've made a point of not
> > mentioning it as it felt to me like a cheap tactic if I said Maven
> > might be based on Avalon.
>
> Well I just blew it for you then ;P
>
> ...
> > I think the most important thing for me to do right now is get the docs
> > back in line so people know what it planned.
>
> You must have a few forked versions of yourself working in parallel
> universes to keep up with turbine, maven, avalon and all ;) In case
> no-one's said it yet, thanks for the offers to help with the build
> system.
>
>
> --Jeff
>
> > Jason van Zyl
> > jason@apache.org
> > http://tambora.zenplex.org
>
> --
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
> For additional commands, e-mail: <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
--
jvz.
Jason van Zyl
jason@apache.org
http://tambora.zenplex.org
In short, man creates for himself a new religion of a rational
and technical order to justify his work and to be justified in it.
-- Jacques Ellul, The Technological Society
--
To unsubscribe, e-mail: <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
For additional commands, e-mail: <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
Re: [RT] Maven as an Avalon container
Posted by Jeff Turner <je...@apache.org>.
On Wed, Aug 21, 2002 at 07:24:18AM -0400, Jason van Zyl wrote:
> On Wed, 2002-08-21 at 07:18, Jeff Turner wrote:
...
> > A random thought wrt. Maven and Avalon: imagine if Maven had an embedded
> > Avalon container (phoenix or something), with which plugins could
> > register Components to be deployed (eg phoenix .sars). This could have a
> > number of uses:
>
> It's not a random thought actually, I wanted plexus and Maven to share
> the same container whatever that happens to be. Right now plexus and
> Maven are using the same mechanis for processing plugins. Primitive, but
> I'm waiting for things to settle down around here before flipping the
> container in Plexus.
Great! I gather Plexus is some sort of homegrown container? There's not
much info about it. Will it end up at Jakarta?
> I've chatted with Peter about this too. I've made a point of not
> mentioning it as it felt to me like a cheap tactic if I said Maven
> might be based on Avalon.
Well I just blew it for you then ;P
...
> I think the most important thing for me to do right now is get the docs
> back in line so people know what it planned.
You must have a few forked versions of yourself working in parallel
universes to keep up with turbine, maven, avalon and all ;) In case
no-one's said it yet, thanks for the offers to help with the build
system.
--Jeff
> Jason van Zyl
> jason@apache.org
> http://tambora.zenplex.org
--
To unsubscribe, e-mail: <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
For additional commands, e-mail: <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
Re: [RT] Maven as an Avalon container (Re: Maven, notes from XtC
with James Strachan and Vincent Massol)
Posted by Jason van Zyl <ja...@zenplex.com>.
On Wed, 2002-08-21 at 07:18, Jeff Turner wrote:
> On Tue, Aug 20, 2002 at 08:35:36PM -0400, Jason van Zyl wrote:
> ...
> > I can keep making Avalon project descriptors, help others make them,
> > help with a forrest plugin if that's what you would prefer to use for
> > your docs and I will help keep them updated.
>
> FYI, I have a basic Forrest plugin working. It is *very* basic though,
> and not yet configurable through ${maven.*} properties. Most of the work
> involves fixing Forrest Ant scripts.
>
> A random thought wrt. Maven and Avalon: imagine if Maven had an embedded
> Avalon container (phoenix or something), with which plugins could
> register Components to be deployed (eg phoenix .sars). This could have a
> number of uses:
It's not a random thought actually, I wanted plexus and Maven to share
the same container whatever that happens to be. Right now plexus and
Maven are using the same mechanis for processing plugins. Primitive, but
I'm waiting for things to settle down around here before flipping the
container in Plexus. I've chatted with Peter about this too. I've made a
point of not mentioning it as it felt to me like a cheap tactic if I
said Maven might be based on Avalon.
> - Heavy plugins like Forrest could use a client/server architecture. Eg,
> the Forrest plugin deploys a 'server' component (Cocoon), and then
> when the user says 'maven forrest:transform', an RMI request is made
> to the server: "render directory X". Saves lots of startup time.
We plans for long-lived apps like consoles and the reactor will
definitely be a long-lived process.
> - One could have 'asynchronous' Maven targets, eg a plugin that scans
> xdocs/* every 5s, and regenerates any docs that change, or a
> nightly-build plugin, or other continuous integration-type things like
> Gump.
Yes, this is the reactor.
> This could possibly be implemented with an 'avalon' plugin, plus a Jelly
> taglib for invoking, deploying and undeploying Components. Plugins can
> then use the jelly taglib to launch whatever stateful components they
> want.
>
> As the subject says, just a RT..
I think the most important thing for me to do right now is get the docs
back in line so people know what it planned.
>
> --Jeff
>
> > At any rate I am hopeful that Maven can provide what you need to make
> > things easier, generally more comprehensible for developers and
> > especially make life easier for your users.
> >
> > > James spent quite a bit of time talking of Jelly. Way cool, check it
> > > out: http://jakarta.apache.org/commons/sandbox/jelly/
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > >
> > > - Paul
>
> --
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
> For additional commands, e-mail: <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
--
jvz.
Jason van Zyl
jason@apache.org
http://tambora.zenplex.org
In short, man creates for himself a new religion of a rational
and technical order to justify his work and to be justified in it.
-- Jacques Ellul, The Technological Society
--
To unsubscribe, e-mail: <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
For additional commands, e-mail: <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>