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Posted to general@incubator.apache.org by "Noel J. Bergman" <no...@devtech.com> on 2007/10/02 17:34:02 UTC
RE: How strict should podling release reviews be?
> i'm thinking more of a benevolent educator than traffic warden
> style reviewer role.
When it comes to legal issues related to a release, the warden role is the
more appropriate. It benefits neither the project nor the ASF if we are lax
in that regard.
Some of the things that they need to do are identified by RAT, and would be
non-issues if they would correct their build process to do them
automatically, e.g., inserting the license and disclaimer files where they
are supposed to go.
--- Noel
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Re: How strict should podling release reviews be?
Posted by Robert Burrell Donkin <ro...@gmail.com>.
On 10/3/07, ant elder <an...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 10/2/07, Robert Burrell Donkin <ro...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > On 10/2/07, Noel J. Bergman <no...@devtech.com> wrote:
> > > > i'm thinking more of a benevolent educator than traffic warden
> > > > style reviewer role.
> > >
> > > When it comes to legal issues related to a release, the warden role is
> > the
> > > more appropriate. It benefits neither the project nor the ASF if we are
> > lax
> > > in that regard.
> > >
> > > Some of the things that they need to do are identified by RAT, and would
> > be
> > > non-issues if they would correct their build process to do them
> > > automatically, e.g., inserting the license and disclaimer files where
> > they
> > > are supposed to go.
> >
> > i do believe that there's a definite problem here. there's too much
> > energy wasted by everyone.
> >
> > the IPMC cannot actively oversee the code bases without automation.
> > so, the only real oversight happens at release time. this is bad for
> > everyone. really, we need to automatically scan and analyse the
> > incubator codebases.
> >
> > i hope that http://wiki.apache.org/incubator/RatProposal may help
>
>
> That RAT proposal looks really good, its just what we need. I can't promise
> to contribute much code but i'd definitely hang around and help test it on
> things.
hopefully it will be easy to contribute in small ways without too much
effort. this is particularly important since a lot of meta-data needs
to be collected. this probably isn't feasible without active help from
contributors.
for example, a good guessing algorithm for generated files needs good
meta-data about the ways common programs mark files as generated. so
release managers can contribute by submitting new patterns whenever
RAT doesn't correctly recognize a generated file.
another example, discordia aims to collect meta-data allowing
artifacts to be matched to license meta-data. when release managers
encounter a jar (or other binary artifact unknown to discordia) they
can submit meta-data.
> Until that gets implemented (or maybe as part of its design?) could there be
> a wiki page documenting each rule RAT would check?
RAT just automates tedious checks that reviewers carry out by hand.
again, this is going to require collection of meta-data analysis rules
for automation.
> That way we could have a
> complete list of each specific requirement in one place to make it easier
> for both podlings and reviewers to check manually till RAT is done. If we
> had such a list then it could be only the things documented there are
> release blockers, or at least if a release is blocked the reason should get
> added to the list so we eventually have a fairly compressive list of the
> rules so everyone knows what to expect.
different people have different ideas about what are blockers and IMHO
this is good
i've seen very few -1's, what's much more common is for people with
criticisms to post them and not offer a vote
i would expect a -1 only if the apache policies were broken
> I'd have a go at creating such wiki page with the rules I know about if
> people think its useful but i expect others would need to help out if its
> going to get very comprehensive :)
IMHO the wiki is just a distraction: the real problem is that the
release management page is very unfinished. if there are people with
time then improving would be great. volunteers?
- robert
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Re: How strict should podling release reviews be?
Posted by Niall Pemberton <ni...@gmail.com>.
On 10/3/07, ant elder <an...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 10/2/07, Robert Burrell Donkin <ro...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > On 10/2/07, Noel J. Bergman <no...@devtech.com> wrote:
> > > > i'm thinking more of a benevolent educator than traffic warden
> > > > style reviewer role.
> > >
> > > When it comes to legal issues related to a release, the warden role is
> > the
> > > more appropriate. It benefits neither the project nor the ASF if we are
> > lax
> > > in that regard.
> > >
> > > Some of the things that they need to do are identified by RAT, and would
> > be
> > > non-issues if they would correct their build process to do them
> > > automatically, e.g., inserting the license and disclaimer files where
> > they
> > > are supposed to go.
> >
> > i do believe that there's a definite problem here. there's too much
> > energy wasted by everyone.
> >
> > the IPMC cannot actively oversee the code bases without automation.
> > so, the only real oversight happens at release time. this is bad for
> > everyone. really, we need to automatically scan and analyse the
> > incubator codebases.
> >
> > i hope that http://wiki.apache.org/incubator/RatProposal may help
>
>
> That RAT proposal looks really good, its just what we need. I can't promise
> to contribute much code but i'd definitely hang around and help test it on
> things.
>
> Until that gets implemented (or maybe as part of its design?) could there be
Its not starting from scratch - theres already been a few releases -
currently living at google code:
http://code.google.com/p/arat/
Niall
> a wiki page documenting each rule RAT would check? That way we could have a
> complete list of each specific requirement in one place to make it easier
> for both podlings and reviewers to check manually till RAT is done. If we
> had such a list then it could be only the things documented there are
> release blockers, or at least if a release is blocked the reason should get
> added to the list so we eventually have a fairly compressive list of the
> rules so everyone knows what to expect.
>
> I'd have a go at creating such wiki page with the rules I know about if
> people think its useful but i expect others would need to help out if its
> going to get very comprehensive :)
>
> ...ant
>
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Re: How strict should podling release reviews be?
Posted by ant elder <an...@gmail.com>.
On 10/2/07, Robert Burrell Donkin <ro...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> On 10/2/07, Noel J. Bergman <no...@devtech.com> wrote:
> > > i'm thinking more of a benevolent educator than traffic warden
> > > style reviewer role.
> >
> > When it comes to legal issues related to a release, the warden role is
> the
> > more appropriate. It benefits neither the project nor the ASF if we are
> lax
> > in that regard.
> >
> > Some of the things that they need to do are identified by RAT, and would
> be
> > non-issues if they would correct their build process to do them
> > automatically, e.g., inserting the license and disclaimer files where
> they
> > are supposed to go.
>
> i do believe that there's a definite problem here. there's too much
> energy wasted by everyone.
>
> the IPMC cannot actively oversee the code bases without automation.
> so, the only real oversight happens at release time. this is bad for
> everyone. really, we need to automatically scan and analyse the
> incubator codebases.
>
> i hope that http://wiki.apache.org/incubator/RatProposal may help
That RAT proposal looks really good, its just what we need. I can't promise
to contribute much code but i'd definitely hang around and help test it on
things.
Until that gets implemented (or maybe as part of its design?) could there be
a wiki page documenting each rule RAT would check? That way we could have a
complete list of each specific requirement in one place to make it easier
for both podlings and reviewers to check manually till RAT is done. If we
had such a list then it could be only the things documented there are
release blockers, or at least if a release is blocked the reason should get
added to the list so we eventually have a fairly compressive list of the
rules so everyone knows what to expect.
I'd have a go at creating such wiki page with the rules I know about if
people think its useful but i expect others would need to help out if its
going to get very comprehensive :)
...ant
Re: How strict should podling release reviews be?
Posted by Robert Burrell Donkin <ro...@gmail.com>.
On 10/2/07, Noel J. Bergman <no...@devtech.com> wrote:
> > i'm thinking more of a benevolent educator than traffic warden
> > style reviewer role.
>
> When it comes to legal issues related to a release, the warden role is the
> more appropriate. It benefits neither the project nor the ASF if we are lax
> in that regard.
>
> Some of the things that they need to do are identified by RAT, and would be
> non-issues if they would correct their build process to do them
> automatically, e.g., inserting the license and disclaimer files where they
> are supposed to go.
i do believe that there's a definite problem here. there's too much
energy wasted by everyone.
the IPMC cannot actively oversee the code bases without automation.
so, the only real oversight happens at release time. this is bad for
everyone. really, we need to automatically scan and analyse the
incubator codebases.
i hope that http://wiki.apache.org/incubator/RatProposal may help
- robert
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