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Posted to dev@tapestry.apache.org by Bob Harner <bo...@gmail.com> on 2011/05/28 03:52:33 UTC
Wanted: better Google results
Most of the time when I use Google to search for Tapestry topics, the
results are truly bad, because they are obscured by outdated
documentation for Tapestry 4 and older versions of Tapestry 5. This
makes Tapestry documentation seem much worse than it really is. (I
happen to think the newer stuff is pretty good.)
The root problem is that Tapestry's long history of documentation
versions makes it hard for Google to tell which version is the best.
For example, searching for "tapestry component parameters" (without
quotes) results in:
1) http://tapestry.apache.org/tapestry5/guide/parameters.html
2) http://tapestry.apache.org/tapestry4/UsersGuide/components.html
3) http://tapestry.apache.org/tapestry5.1/guide/coercion.html
4) http://tapestry.formos.com/nightly/tapestry5/tapestry-component-report/
...and hundreds of other links that are relevant but sub-optimal.
The true best page is really
http://tapestry.apache.org/component-parameters.html -- but I couldn't
find that page in any of the top 200 results. And other search terms
are similarly disappointing.
What's the solution? I propose doing the following:
1) Bulk edit or republish old 3.x and 4.x documentation pages to add a
prominent banner added at the top pointing to the corresponding page
in the newest documentation. The old content would remain in the
pages.
2) Bulk edit or republish old 5.x documentation with all text REMOVED
and a prominent banner added at the top pointing to the corresponding
page in the newest documentation.
3) Finding a way to tell Google what older pages are "archived" and
"low priority" and what new ones are "high priority". I guess a
Sitemap (http://www.google.com/support/webmasters/bin/answer.py?answer=183668)
can do that.
I'm willing to work on these, though ultimately I'll need a
committer's assistance for #1 and #2.
What do you all think? Any other ideas?
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Re: Wanted: better Google results
Posted by Bob Harner <bo...@gmail.com>.
I guess it's valuable to keep at least one version of the 4.x
documentation online for those still using 4.x.
As far as redirecting everything to the http://tapestry.apache.org/,
that seems like it would break a lot of links and search results,
making the user's search experience worse rather than better, right?
On Sun, May 29, 2011 at 2:11 AM, Howard Lewis Ship <hl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Maybe we should just replace the old web sites with .htaccess files
> that redirect back to the main page, http://tapestry.apache.org/
>
>
>
> On Sat, May 28, 2011 at 8:44 PM, Kalle Korhonen
> <ka...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Ah, yes I see. Agree on all you said, and we definitely want to get
>> that custom search into the template as well. At least to me it seems
>> that the Maven based documentation for 5.x get most of the hits. I
>> don't think we need to worry about 3.x documentation too much. I'm
>> afraid that bulk edit with specific content links may not work very
>> well as the documentation structure has changed. Simply adding the
>> same link to the (root of) latest documentation on every existing page
>> might increase the visibility of the wiki-based documentation in the
>> search rankings though. I'm not a PMC member, but personally, I'd just
>> give you commit rights to make this simpler. Any PMC member want to
>> propose Bob as committer?
>>
>> Kalle
>>
>>
>> On Sat, May 28, 2011 at 4:25 AM, Bob Harner <bo...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Well, I did create http://tapestry.apache.org/search.html a few months
>>> back, and it works much better than the general Google search. We
>>> still need to figure out how to integrate it or something like it into
>>> the site. That involves working with the template that I don't have
>>> write-access to.
>>>
>>> Anyway, most people will still tend to use the standard Google search.
>>>
>>> On Fri, May 27, 2011 at 10:43 PM, Kalle Korhonen
>>> <ka...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Agree, I'll help. I think one decent solution is a Google Custom
>>>> Search. There was a previous effort underway, but I don't know what
>>>> happened to it. If we could just properly search our own
>>>> documentation, that would already be a huge improvement.
>>>>
>>>> Kalle
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, May 27, 2011 at 6:52 PM, Bob Harner <bo...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> Most of the time when I use Google to search for Tapestry topics, the
>>>>> results are truly bad, because they are obscured by outdated
>>>>> documentation for Tapestry 4 and older versions of Tapestry 5. This
>>>>> makes Tapestry documentation seem much worse than it really is. (I
>>>>> happen to think the newer stuff is pretty good.)
>>>>>
>>>>> The root problem is that Tapestry's long history of documentation
>>>>> versions makes it hard for Google to tell which version is the best.
>>>>> For example, searching for "tapestry component parameters" (without
>>>>> quotes) results in:
>>>>>
>>>>> 1) http://tapestry.apache.org/tapestry5/guide/parameters.html
>>>>> 2) http://tapestry.apache.org/tapestry4/UsersGuide/components.html
>>>>> 3) http://tapestry.apache.org/tapestry5.1/guide/coercion.html
>>>>> 4) http://tapestry.formos.com/nightly/tapestry5/tapestry-component-report/
>>>>>
>>>>> ...and hundreds of other links that are relevant but sub-optimal.
>>>>>
>>>>> The true best page is really
>>>>> http://tapestry.apache.org/component-parameters.html -- but I couldn't
>>>>> find that page in any of the top 200 results. And other search terms
>>>>> are similarly disappointing.
>>>>>
>>>>> What's the solution? I propose doing the following:
>>>>>
>>>>> 1) Bulk edit or republish old 3.x and 4.x documentation pages to add a
>>>>> prominent banner added at the top pointing to the corresponding page
>>>>> in the newest documentation. The old content would remain in the
>>>>> pages.
>>>>>
>>>>> 2) Bulk edit or republish old 5.x documentation with all text REMOVED
>>>>> and a prominent banner added at the top pointing to the corresponding
>>>>> page in the newest documentation.
>>>>>
>>>>> 3) Finding a way to tell Google what older pages are "archived" and
>>>>> "low priority" and what new ones are "high priority". I guess a
>>>>> Sitemap (http://www.google.com/support/webmasters/bin/answer.py?answer=183668)
>>>>> can do that.
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm willing to work on these, though ultimately I'll need a
>>>>> committer's assistance for #1 and #2.
>>>>>
>>>>> What do you all think? Any other ideas?
>>>>>
>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@tapestry.apache.org
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@tapestry.apache.org
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@tapestry.apache.org
>>>
>>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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>>
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Howard M. Lewis Ship
>
> Creator of Apache Tapestry
>
> The source for Tapestry training, mentoring and support. Contact me to
> learn how I can get you up and productive in Tapestry fast!
>
> (971) 678-5210
> http://howardlewisship.com
>
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Re: Wanted: better Google results
Posted by "Thiago H. de Paula Figueiredo" <th...@gmail.com>.
On Mon, 13 Jun 2011 22:32:46 -0300, Bob Harner <bo...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Yes to both, please :-)
Me too. :)
>
> On Mon, Jun 13, 2011 at 9:26 PM, Andreas Andreou <an...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>> it's setup - ask howard for access.
>>
>> I've setup google webmasters account, so if you want to
>> see those, ask me.
>>
>> On Tue, Jun 14, 2011 at 04:18, Bob Harner <bo...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Not by me. Maybe one of the other guys has set up something, not sure.
>>>
>>> On Mon, Jun 13, 2011 at 6:27 PM, Mark <ma...@xeric.net> wrote:
>>>> Looks good. Is there any type of analytics running so you can see
>>>> if/when searches start shifting to the newer pages?
>>>>
>>>> Mark
>>>>
>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@tapestry.apache.org
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@tapestry.apache.org
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Andreas Andreou - andyhot@apache.org - http://blog.andyhot.gr
>> Apache Tapestry PMC / http://chesstu.be owner
>> Open Source / JEE Consulting
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@tapestry.apache.org
>>
>>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
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>
--
Thiago H. de Paula Figueiredo
Independent Java, Apache Tapestry 5 and Hibernate consultant, developer,
and instructor
Owner, Ars Machina Tecnologia da Informação Ltda.
Consultor, desenvolvedor e instrutor em Java, Tapestry e Hibernate
http://www.arsmachina.com.br
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Re: Wanted: better Google results
Posted by Andreas Andreou <an...@gmail.com>.
Ok, the webmasters account should be accessible to you...
It's mainly used to exclude T4 pages from becoming sitelinks
On Tue, Jun 14, 2011 at 04:32, Bob Harner <bo...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Yes to both, please :-)
>
> On Mon, Jun 13, 2011 at 9:26 PM, Andreas Andreou <an...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> it's setup - ask howard for access.
>>
>> I've setup google webmasters account, so if you want to
>> see those, ask me.
>>
>> On Tue, Jun 14, 2011 at 04:18, Bob Harner <bo...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Not by me. Maybe one of the other guys has set up something, not sure.
>>>
>>> On Mon, Jun 13, 2011 at 6:27 PM, Mark <ma...@xeric.net> wrote:
>>>> Looks good. Is there any type of analytics running so you can see
>>>> if/when searches start shifting to the newer pages?
>>>>
>>>> Mark
>>>>
>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@tapestry.apache.org
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@tapestry.apache.org
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Andreas Andreou - andyhot@apache.org - http://blog.andyhot.gr
>> Apache Tapestry PMC / http://chesstu.be owner
>> Open Source / JEE Consulting
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@tapestry.apache.org
>>
>>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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>
>
--
Andreas Andreou - andyhot@apache.org - http://blog.andyhot.gr
Apache Tapestry PMC / http://chesstu.be owner
Open Source / JEE Consulting
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Re: Wanted: better Google results
Posted by Bob Harner <bo...@gmail.com>.
Yes to both, please :-)
On Mon, Jun 13, 2011 at 9:26 PM, Andreas Andreou <an...@gmail.com> wrote:
> it's setup - ask howard for access.
>
> I've setup google webmasters account, so if you want to
> see those, ask me.
>
> On Tue, Jun 14, 2011 at 04:18, Bob Harner <bo...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Not by me. Maybe one of the other guys has set up something, not sure.
>>
>> On Mon, Jun 13, 2011 at 6:27 PM, Mark <ma...@xeric.net> wrote:
>>> Looks good. Is there any type of analytics running so you can see
>>> if/when searches start shifting to the newer pages?
>>>
>>> Mark
>>>
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@tapestry.apache.org
>>>
>>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@tapestry.apache.org
>>
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Andreas Andreou - andyhot@apache.org - http://blog.andyhot.gr
> Apache Tapestry PMC / http://chesstu.be owner
> Open Source / JEE Consulting
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@tapestry.apache.org
>
>
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Re: Wanted: better Google results
Posted by Andreas Andreou <an...@gmail.com>.
it's setup - ask howard for access.
I've setup google webmasters account, so if you want to
see those, ask me.
On Tue, Jun 14, 2011 at 04:18, Bob Harner <bo...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Not by me. Maybe one of the other guys has set up something, not sure.
>
> On Mon, Jun 13, 2011 at 6:27 PM, Mark <ma...@xeric.net> wrote:
>> Looks good. Is there any type of analytics running so you can see
>> if/when searches start shifting to the newer pages?
>>
>> Mark
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@tapestry.apache.org
>>
>>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@tapestry.apache.org
>
>
--
Andreas Andreou - andyhot@apache.org - http://blog.andyhot.gr
Apache Tapestry PMC / http://chesstu.be owner
Open Source / JEE Consulting
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Re: Wanted: better Google results
Posted by Bob Harner <bo...@gmail.com>.
Not by me. Maybe one of the other guys has set up something, not sure.
On Mon, Jun 13, 2011 at 6:27 PM, Mark <ma...@xeric.net> wrote:
> Looks good. Is there any type of analytics running so you can see
> if/when searches start shifting to the newer pages?
>
> Mark
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@tapestry.apache.org
>
>
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Re: Wanted: better Google results
Posted by Mark <ma...@xeric.net>.
Looks good. Is there any type of analytics running so you can see
if/when searches start shifting to the newer pages?
Mark
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Re: Wanted: better Google results
Posted by Bob Harner <bo...@gmail.com>.
Oh, and for the curious, here is the list of /tapestry5.x pages for
which I don't think we have anything newer:
tapestry5.1/glassfish.html
tapestry5.2-dev/glassfish.html
tapestry5.0/jboss.html
tapestry5.1/jboss.html
tapestry5.2-dev/jboss.html
tapestry5.0/jetty.html
tapestry5.1/jetty.html
tapestry5.2-dev/jetty.html
tapestry5.0/screencast.html
tapestry5.1/screencast.html
tapestry5.2-dev/screencast.html
tapestry5.0/screencast_3.html
tapestry5.1/screencast_3.html
tapestry5.2-dev/screencast_3.html
tapestry5.0/screencast_4.html
tapestry5.1/screencast_4.html
tapestry5.2-dev/screencast_4.html
tapestry5.0/screencast_5.html
tapestry5.1/screencast_5.html
tapestry5.2-dev/screencast_5.html
tapestry5.0/struts.html
tapestry5.1/struts.html
tapestry5.2-dev/struts.html
tapestry5.0/tapestry-core/guide/infrastructure.html
tapestry5.0/tapestry-core/surefire-report.html
tapestry5.0/tapestry-hibernate/surefire-report.html
tapestry5.2-dev/tapestry-ioc/clirr-report.html
tapestry5.0/tomcat.html
tapestry5.1/tomcat.html
tapestry5.2-dev/tomcat.html
tapestry5.0/websphere.html
tapestry5.1/websphere.html
tapestry5.2-dev/websphere.html
On Sun, Jun 12, 2011 at 9:43 PM, Bob Harner <bo...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Following Mark's advice, I wrote and ran a little Perl script that
> inserted an "outdated" box at the top of all of the old 5.x
> documentation pages (except the javadocs) and also inserts a <link
> rel="canonical"...> tag in the <head> so Google (and other search
> engines) can do a better job of identifying the newer stuff as more
> important. Hopefully in a few days (weeks? months?) the search engine
> results will improve.
>
> The script made copies of the original files under ".bak" names in the
> same directories. We can delete those after a few days or weeks, once
> we're confident that the new versions are fully acceptable to
> everybody. Alternatively, we can revert the changes, change the
> script, and re-run it if needed.
>
> I'll guess I'll check the script into svn somewhere once I figure out
> where it should go.
>
> On Thu, Jun 2, 2011 at 7:10 AM, Bob Harner <bo...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Thanks, Mark, very helpful!
>>
>> Bob Harner
>>
>> On Jun 1, 2011 9:23 PM, "Mark" <ma...@xeric.net> wrote:
>>> On Wed, Jun 1, 2011 at 7:33 PM, Bob Harner <bo...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Mark, thanks for the tips!
>>>>
>>>>> 2. Specify a canonical url for the old pages.
>>>>
>>>> Not following you there. Care to explain?
>>>
>>> Lets say you have a website that sells a running shoe called the x115
>>> and you can find the same shoe with variations under different paths.
>>> So you might have:
>>>
>>> www.example.com/running_shoes/x115.html
>>> www.example.com/blue_shoes/x115.html
>>> www.example.com/red_shoes/x115.html
>>> www.example.com/trendy_shoes/x115.html
>>> etc.
>>>
>>> When a search engine sees this, there isn't really anyway to figure
>>> out which page is the canonical page for the x115. To solve this, you
>>> can specify the canonical url in your <head> like this:
>>>
>>> <link rel="canonical"
>>> href="http://www.example.com/running_shoes/x115.html" />
>>>
>>> You put that in each page to tell Google that when someone searches
>>> for x115, you really want them to get the version in the running_shoes
>>> directory.
>>>
>>> So in cases where we have a lot of very similar documentation, it
>>> could make sense to specify the current version as the canonical
>>> version. So basically all the prior versions would point to the
>>> current version.
>>>
>>> You might be able to accomplish about the same thing, simply by
>>> linking all old docs that need to be kept for historical purposes to
>>> their closes match in the new documentation. Still the canonical is an
>>> option to consider. It may depend on what is easiest to implement more
>>> than anything.
>>>
>>> Oh and if you do remove content, the most ideal thing would be to
>>> redirect those pages to the closes equivalent using a 301 redirect.
>>> That will handle any existing links and it will preserve and redirect
>>> the page rank to the new pages.
>>>
>>> Mark
>>>
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@tapestry.apache.org
>>>
>>
>
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Re: Wanted: better Google results
Posted by Bob Harner <bo...@gmail.com>.
Following Mark's advice, I wrote and ran a little Perl script that
inserted an "outdated" box at the top of all of the old 5.x
documentation pages (except the javadocs) and also inserts a <link
rel="canonical"...> tag in the <head> so Google (and other search
engines) can do a better job of identifying the newer stuff as more
important. Hopefully in a few days (weeks? months?) the search engine
results will improve.
The script made copies of the original files under ".bak" names in the
same directories. We can delete those after a few days or weeks, once
we're confident that the new versions are fully acceptable to
everybody. Alternatively, we can revert the changes, change the
script, and re-run it if needed.
I'll guess I'll check the script into svn somewhere once I figure out
where it should go.
On Thu, Jun 2, 2011 at 7:10 AM, Bob Harner <bo...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Thanks, Mark, very helpful!
>
> Bob Harner
>
> On Jun 1, 2011 9:23 PM, "Mark" <ma...@xeric.net> wrote:
>> On Wed, Jun 1, 2011 at 7:33 PM, Bob Harner <bo...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Mark, thanks for the tips!
>>>
>>>> 2. Specify a canonical url for the old pages.
>>>
>>> Not following you there. Care to explain?
>>
>> Lets say you have a website that sells a running shoe called the x115
>> and you can find the same shoe with variations under different paths.
>> So you might have:
>>
>> www.example.com/running_shoes/x115.html
>> www.example.com/blue_shoes/x115.html
>> www.example.com/red_shoes/x115.html
>> www.example.com/trendy_shoes/x115.html
>> etc.
>>
>> When a search engine sees this, there isn't really anyway to figure
>> out which page is the canonical page for the x115. To solve this, you
>> can specify the canonical url in your <head> like this:
>>
>> <link rel="canonical"
>> href="http://www.example.com/running_shoes/x115.html" />
>>
>> You put that in each page to tell Google that when someone searches
>> for x115, you really want them to get the version in the running_shoes
>> directory.
>>
>> So in cases where we have a lot of very similar documentation, it
>> could make sense to specify the current version as the canonical
>> version. So basically all the prior versions would point to the
>> current version.
>>
>> You might be able to accomplish about the same thing, simply by
>> linking all old docs that need to be kept for historical purposes to
>> their closes match in the new documentation. Still the canonical is an
>> option to consider. It may depend on what is easiest to implement more
>> than anything.
>>
>> Oh and if you do remove content, the most ideal thing would be to
>> redirect those pages to the closes equivalent using a 301 redirect.
>> That will handle any existing links and it will preserve and redirect
>> the page rank to the new pages.
>>
>> Mark
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@tapestry.apache.org
>>
>
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Re: Wanted: better Google results
Posted by Bob Harner <bo...@gmail.com>.
Thanks, Mark, very helpful!
Bob Harner
On Jun 1, 2011 9:23 PM, "Mark" <ma...@xeric.net> wrote:
> On Wed, Jun 1, 2011 at 7:33 PM, Bob Harner <bo...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Mark, thanks for the tips!
>>
>>> 2. Specify a canonical url for the old pages.
>>
>> Not following you there. Care to explain?
>
> Lets say you have a website that sells a running shoe called the x115
> and you can find the same shoe with variations under different paths.
> So you might have:
>
> www.example.com/running_shoes/x115.html
> www.example.com/blue_shoes/x115.html
> www.example.com/red_shoes/x115.html
> www.example.com/trendy_shoes/x115.html
> etc.
>
> When a search engine sees this, there isn't really anyway to figure
> out which page is the canonical page for the x115. To solve this, you
> can specify the canonical url in your <head> like this:
>
> <link rel="canonical" href="http://www.example.com/running_shoes/x115.html"
/>
>
> You put that in each page to tell Google that when someone searches
> for x115, you really want them to get the version in the running_shoes
> directory.
>
> So in cases where we have a lot of very similar documentation, it
> could make sense to specify the current version as the canonical
> version. So basically all the prior versions would point to the
> current version.
>
> You might be able to accomplish about the same thing, simply by
> linking all old docs that need to be kept for historical purposes to
> their closes match in the new documentation. Still the canonical is an
> option to consider. It may depend on what is easiest to implement more
> than anything.
>
> Oh and if you do remove content, the most ideal thing would be to
> redirect those pages to the closes equivalent using a 301 redirect.
> That will handle any existing links and it will preserve and redirect
> the page rank to the new pages.
>
> Mark
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@tapestry.apache.org
>
Re: Wanted: better Google results
Posted by Mark <ma...@xeric.net>.
On Wed, Jun 1, 2011 at 7:33 PM, Bob Harner <bo...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Mark, thanks for the tips!
>
>> 2. Specify a canonical url for the old pages.
>
> Not following you there. Care to explain?
Lets say you have a website that sells a running shoe called the x115
and you can find the same shoe with variations under different paths.
So you might have:
www.example.com/running_shoes/x115.html
www.example.com/blue_shoes/x115.html
www.example.com/red_shoes/x115.html
www.example.com/trendy_shoes/x115.html
etc.
When a search engine sees this, there isn't really anyway to figure
out which page is the canonical page for the x115. To solve this, you
can specify the canonical url in your <head> like this:
<link rel="canonical" href="http://www.example.com/running_shoes/x115.html" />
You put that in each page to tell Google that when someone searches
for x115, you really want them to get the version in the running_shoes
directory.
So in cases where we have a lot of very similar documentation, it
could make sense to specify the current version as the canonical
version. So basically all the prior versions would point to the
current version.
You might be able to accomplish about the same thing, simply by
linking all old docs that need to be kept for historical purposes to
their closes match in the new documentation. Still the canonical is an
option to consider. It may depend on what is easiest to implement more
than anything.
Oh and if you do remove content, the most ideal thing would be to
redirect those pages to the closes equivalent using a 301 redirect.
That will handle any existing links and it will preserve and redirect
the page rank to the new pages.
Mark
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Re: Wanted: better Google results
Posted by Bob Harner <bo...@gmail.com>.
Mark, thanks for the tips!
> 2. Specify a canonical url for the old pages.
Not following you there. Care to explain?
On Wed, Jun 1, 2011 at 7:23 AM, Mark <ma...@xeric.net> wrote:
> The problem is that Google can't tell what is important and what isn't
> because the older content has just as many if not more links pointing
> to it than the new stuff. Just getting rid of the old content is
> going to break links on the web which may or may not be a bad thing.
> Here are a few things that might help:
>
> 1. put no index on the pages that you don't want to see in the search
> results any more
> <meta name="robots" content="noindex" />
>
> 2. Specify a canonical url for the old pages. This would suggest that
> Google use the new page instead of the old ones in the results.
>
> 3. More links to current documentation. If you have a website that is
> pointing at older documentation, updating the links (where
> appropriate) would help.
>
> 4. A few deeper links from front page. For example, if
> tapestry.apache.org had a link to
> http://tapestry.apache.org/current/tapestry-core/ref/ it would help
> boost the current component reference in the search results.
>
> Mark
>
>
> On Sun, May 29, 2011 at 1:11 AM, Howard Lewis Ship <hl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Maybe we should just replace the old web sites with .htaccess files
>> that redirect back to the main page, http://tapestry.apache.org/
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sat, May 28, 2011 at 8:44 PM, Kalle Korhonen
>> <ka...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > Ah, yes I see. Agree on all you said, and we definitely want to get
>> > that custom search into the template as well. At least to me it seems
>> > that the Maven based documentation for 5.x get most of the hits. I
>> > don't think we need to worry about 3.x documentation too much. I'm
>> > afraid that bulk edit with specific content links may not work very
>> > well as the documentation structure has changed. Simply adding the
>> > same link to the (root of) latest documentation on every existing page
>> > might increase the visibility of the wiki-based documentation in the
>> > search rankings though. I'm not a PMC member, but personally, I'd just
>> > give you commit rights to make this simpler. Any PMC member want to
>> > propose Bob as committer?
>> >
>> > Kalle
>> >
>> >
>> > On Sat, May 28, 2011 at 4:25 AM, Bob Harner <bo...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> Well, I did create http://tapestry.apache.org/search.html a few months
>> >> back, and it works much better than the general Google search. We
>> >> still need to figure out how to integrate it or something like it into
>> >> the site. That involves working with the template that I don't have
>> >> write-access to.
>> >>
>> >> Anyway, most people will still tend to use the standard Google search.
>> >>
>> >> On Fri, May 27, 2011 at 10:43 PM, Kalle Korhonen
>> >> <ka...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>> Agree, I'll help. I think one decent solution is a Google Custom
>> >>> Search. There was a previous effort underway, but I don't know what
>> >>> happened to it. If we could just properly search our own
>> >>> documentation, that would already be a huge improvement.
>> >>>
>> >>> Kalle
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> On Fri, May 27, 2011 at 6:52 PM, Bob Harner <bo...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>>> Most of the time when I use Google to search for Tapestry topics, the
>> >>>> results are truly bad, because they are obscured by outdated
>> >>>> documentation for Tapestry 4 and older versions of Tapestry 5. This
>> >>>> makes Tapestry documentation seem much worse than it really is. (I
>> >>>> happen to think the newer stuff is pretty good.)
>> >>>>
>> >>>> The root problem is that Tapestry's long history of documentation
>> >>>> versions makes it hard for Google to tell which version is the best.
>> >>>> For example, searching for "tapestry component parameters" (without
>> >>>> quotes) results in:
>> >>>>
>> >>>> 1) http://tapestry.apache.org/tapestry5/guide/parameters.html
>> >>>> 2) http://tapestry.apache.org/tapestry4/UsersGuide/components.html
>> >>>> 3) http://tapestry.apache.org/tapestry5.1/guide/coercion.html
>> >>>> 4) http://tapestry.formos.com/nightly/tapestry5/tapestry-component-report/
>> >>>>
>> >>>> ...and hundreds of other links that are relevant but sub-optimal.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> The true best page is really
>> >>>> http://tapestry.apache.org/component-parameters.html -- but I couldn't
>> >>>> find that page in any of the top 200 results. And other search terms
>> >>>> are similarly disappointing.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> What's the solution? I propose doing the following:
>> >>>>
>> >>>> 1) Bulk edit or republish old 3.x and 4.x documentation pages to add a
>> >>>> prominent banner added at the top pointing to the corresponding page
>> >>>> in the newest documentation. The old content would remain in the
>> >>>> pages.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> 2) Bulk edit or republish old 5.x documentation with all text REMOVED
>> >>>> and a prominent banner added at the top pointing to the corresponding
>> >>>> page in the newest documentation.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> 3) Finding a way to tell Google what older pages are "archived" and
>> >>>> "low priority" and what new ones are "high priority". I guess a
>> >>>> Sitemap (http://www.google.com/support/webmasters/bin/answer.py?answer=183668)
>> >>>> can do that.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> I'm willing to work on these, though ultimately I'll need a
>> >>>> committer's assistance for #1 and #2.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> What do you all think? Any other ideas?
>> >>>>
>> >>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> >>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
>> >>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@tapestry.apache.org
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>
>> >>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> >>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
>> >>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@tapestry.apache.org
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>
>> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
>> >> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@tapestry.apache.org
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
>> > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@tapestry.apache.org
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Howard M. Lewis Ship
>>
>> Creator of Apache Tapestry
>>
>> The source for Tapestry training, mentoring and support. Contact me to
>> learn how I can get you up and productive in Tapestry fast!
>>
>> (971) 678-5210
>> http://howardlewisship.com
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@tapestry.apache.org
>>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@tapestry.apache.org
>
>
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Re: Wanted: better Google results
Posted by Mark <ma...@xeric.net>.
The problem is that Google can't tell what is important and what isn't
because the older content has just as many if not more links pointing
to it than the new stuff. Just getting rid of the old content is
going to break links on the web which may or may not be a bad thing.
Here are a few things that might help:
1. put no index on the pages that you don't want to see in the search
results any more
<meta name="robots" content="noindex" />
2. Specify a canonical url for the old pages. This would suggest that
Google use the new page instead of the old ones in the results.
3. More links to current documentation. If you have a website that is
pointing at older documentation, updating the links (where
appropriate) would help.
4. A few deeper links from front page. For example, if
tapestry.apache.org had a link to
http://tapestry.apache.org/current/tapestry-core/ref/ it would help
boost the current component reference in the search results.
Mark
On Sun, May 29, 2011 at 1:11 AM, Howard Lewis Ship <hl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Maybe we should just replace the old web sites with .htaccess files
> that redirect back to the main page, http://tapestry.apache.org/
>
>
>
> On Sat, May 28, 2011 at 8:44 PM, Kalle Korhonen
> <ka...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Ah, yes I see. Agree on all you said, and we definitely want to get
> > that custom search into the template as well. At least to me it seems
> > that the Maven based documentation for 5.x get most of the hits. I
> > don't think we need to worry about 3.x documentation too much. I'm
> > afraid that bulk edit with specific content links may not work very
> > well as the documentation structure has changed. Simply adding the
> > same link to the (root of) latest documentation on every existing page
> > might increase the visibility of the wiki-based documentation in the
> > search rankings though. I'm not a PMC member, but personally, I'd just
> > give you commit rights to make this simpler. Any PMC member want to
> > propose Bob as committer?
> >
> > Kalle
> >
> >
> > On Sat, May 28, 2011 at 4:25 AM, Bob Harner <bo...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> Well, I did create http://tapestry.apache.org/search.html a few months
> >> back, and it works much better than the general Google search. We
> >> still need to figure out how to integrate it or something like it into
> >> the site. That involves working with the template that I don't have
> >> write-access to.
> >>
> >> Anyway, most people will still tend to use the standard Google search.
> >>
> >> On Fri, May 27, 2011 at 10:43 PM, Kalle Korhonen
> >> <ka...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>> Agree, I'll help. I think one decent solution is a Google Custom
> >>> Search. There was a previous effort underway, but I don't know what
> >>> happened to it. If we could just properly search our own
> >>> documentation, that would already be a huge improvement.
> >>>
> >>> Kalle
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On Fri, May 27, 2011 at 6:52 PM, Bob Harner <bo...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>> Most of the time when I use Google to search for Tapestry topics, the
> >>>> results are truly bad, because they are obscured by outdated
> >>>> documentation for Tapestry 4 and older versions of Tapestry 5. This
> >>>> makes Tapestry documentation seem much worse than it really is. (I
> >>>> happen to think the newer stuff is pretty good.)
> >>>>
> >>>> The root problem is that Tapestry's long history of documentation
> >>>> versions makes it hard for Google to tell which version is the best.
> >>>> For example, searching for "tapestry component parameters" (without
> >>>> quotes) results in:
> >>>>
> >>>> 1) http://tapestry.apache.org/tapestry5/guide/parameters.html
> >>>> 2) http://tapestry.apache.org/tapestry4/UsersGuide/components.html
> >>>> 3) http://tapestry.apache.org/tapestry5.1/guide/coercion.html
> >>>> 4) http://tapestry.formos.com/nightly/tapestry5/tapestry-component-report/
> >>>>
> >>>> ...and hundreds of other links that are relevant but sub-optimal.
> >>>>
> >>>> The true best page is really
> >>>> http://tapestry.apache.org/component-parameters.html -- but I couldn't
> >>>> find that page in any of the top 200 results. And other search terms
> >>>> are similarly disappointing.
> >>>>
> >>>> What's the solution? I propose doing the following:
> >>>>
> >>>> 1) Bulk edit or republish old 3.x and 4.x documentation pages to add a
> >>>> prominent banner added at the top pointing to the corresponding page
> >>>> in the newest documentation. The old content would remain in the
> >>>> pages.
> >>>>
> >>>> 2) Bulk edit or republish old 5.x documentation with all text REMOVED
> >>>> and a prominent banner added at the top pointing to the corresponding
> >>>> page in the newest documentation.
> >>>>
> >>>> 3) Finding a way to tell Google what older pages are "archived" and
> >>>> "low priority" and what new ones are "high priority". I guess a
> >>>> Sitemap (http://www.google.com/support/webmasters/bin/answer.py?answer=183668)
> >>>> can do that.
> >>>>
> >>>> I'm willing to work on these, though ultimately I'll need a
> >>>> committer's assistance for #1 and #2.
> >>>>
> >>>> What do you all think? Any other ideas?
> >>>>
> >>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
> >>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@tapestry.apache.org
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
> >>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@tapestry.apache.org
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
> >> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@tapestry.apache.org
> >>
> >>
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@tapestry.apache.org
> >
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Howard M. Lewis Ship
>
> Creator of Apache Tapestry
>
> The source for Tapestry training, mentoring and support. Contact me to
> learn how I can get you up and productive in Tapestry fast!
>
> (971) 678-5210
> http://howardlewisship.com
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@tapestry.apache.org
>
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Re: Wanted: better Google results
Posted by Howard Lewis Ship <hl...@gmail.com>.
Maybe we should just replace the old web sites with .htaccess files
that redirect back to the main page, http://tapestry.apache.org/
On Sat, May 28, 2011 at 8:44 PM, Kalle Korhonen
<ka...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Ah, yes I see. Agree on all you said, and we definitely want to get
> that custom search into the template as well. At least to me it seems
> that the Maven based documentation for 5.x get most of the hits. I
> don't think we need to worry about 3.x documentation too much. I'm
> afraid that bulk edit with specific content links may not work very
> well as the documentation structure has changed. Simply adding the
> same link to the (root of) latest documentation on every existing page
> might increase the visibility of the wiki-based documentation in the
> search rankings though. I'm not a PMC member, but personally, I'd just
> give you commit rights to make this simpler. Any PMC member want to
> propose Bob as committer?
>
> Kalle
>
>
> On Sat, May 28, 2011 at 4:25 AM, Bob Harner <bo...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Well, I did create http://tapestry.apache.org/search.html a few months
>> back, and it works much better than the general Google search. We
>> still need to figure out how to integrate it or something like it into
>> the site. That involves working with the template that I don't have
>> write-access to.
>>
>> Anyway, most people will still tend to use the standard Google search.
>>
>> On Fri, May 27, 2011 at 10:43 PM, Kalle Korhonen
>> <ka...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Agree, I'll help. I think one decent solution is a Google Custom
>>> Search. There was a previous effort underway, but I don't know what
>>> happened to it. If we could just properly search our own
>>> documentation, that would already be a huge improvement.
>>>
>>> Kalle
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, May 27, 2011 at 6:52 PM, Bob Harner <bo...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Most of the time when I use Google to search for Tapestry topics, the
>>>> results are truly bad, because they are obscured by outdated
>>>> documentation for Tapestry 4 and older versions of Tapestry 5. This
>>>> makes Tapestry documentation seem much worse than it really is. (I
>>>> happen to think the newer stuff is pretty good.)
>>>>
>>>> The root problem is that Tapestry's long history of documentation
>>>> versions makes it hard for Google to tell which version is the best.
>>>> For example, searching for "tapestry component parameters" (without
>>>> quotes) results in:
>>>>
>>>> 1) http://tapestry.apache.org/tapestry5/guide/parameters.html
>>>> 2) http://tapestry.apache.org/tapestry4/UsersGuide/components.html
>>>> 3) http://tapestry.apache.org/tapestry5.1/guide/coercion.html
>>>> 4) http://tapestry.formos.com/nightly/tapestry5/tapestry-component-report/
>>>>
>>>> ...and hundreds of other links that are relevant but sub-optimal.
>>>>
>>>> The true best page is really
>>>> http://tapestry.apache.org/component-parameters.html -- but I couldn't
>>>> find that page in any of the top 200 results. And other search terms
>>>> are similarly disappointing.
>>>>
>>>> What's the solution? I propose doing the following:
>>>>
>>>> 1) Bulk edit or republish old 3.x and 4.x documentation pages to add a
>>>> prominent banner added at the top pointing to the corresponding page
>>>> in the newest documentation. The old content would remain in the
>>>> pages.
>>>>
>>>> 2) Bulk edit or republish old 5.x documentation with all text REMOVED
>>>> and a prominent banner added at the top pointing to the corresponding
>>>> page in the newest documentation.
>>>>
>>>> 3) Finding a way to tell Google what older pages are "archived" and
>>>> "low priority" and what new ones are "high priority". I guess a
>>>> Sitemap (http://www.google.com/support/webmasters/bin/answer.py?answer=183668)
>>>> can do that.
>>>>
>>>> I'm willing to work on these, though ultimately I'll need a
>>>> committer's assistance for #1 and #2.
>>>>
>>>> What do you all think? Any other ideas?
>>>>
>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@tapestry.apache.org
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@tapestry.apache.org
>>>
>>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@tapestry.apache.org
>>
>>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@tapestry.apache.org
>
>
--
Howard M. Lewis Ship
Creator of Apache Tapestry
The source for Tapestry training, mentoring and support. Contact me to
learn how I can get you up and productive in Tapestry fast!
(971) 678-5210
http://howardlewisship.com
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Re: Wanted: better Google results
Posted by Kalle Korhonen <ka...@gmail.com>.
Ah, yes I see. Agree on all you said, and we definitely want to get
that custom search into the template as well. At least to me it seems
that the Maven based documentation for 5.x get most of the hits. I
don't think we need to worry about 3.x documentation too much. I'm
afraid that bulk edit with specific content links may not work very
well as the documentation structure has changed. Simply adding the
same link to the (root of) latest documentation on every existing page
might increase the visibility of the wiki-based documentation in the
search rankings though. I'm not a PMC member, but personally, I'd just
give you commit rights to make this simpler. Any PMC member want to
propose Bob as committer?
Kalle
On Sat, May 28, 2011 at 4:25 AM, Bob Harner <bo...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Well, I did create http://tapestry.apache.org/search.html a few months
> back, and it works much better than the general Google search. We
> still need to figure out how to integrate it or something like it into
> the site. That involves working with the template that I don't have
> write-access to.
>
> Anyway, most people will still tend to use the standard Google search.
>
> On Fri, May 27, 2011 at 10:43 PM, Kalle Korhonen
> <ka...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Agree, I'll help. I think one decent solution is a Google Custom
>> Search. There was a previous effort underway, but I don't know what
>> happened to it. If we could just properly search our own
>> documentation, that would already be a huge improvement.
>>
>> Kalle
>>
>>
>> On Fri, May 27, 2011 at 6:52 PM, Bob Harner <bo...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Most of the time when I use Google to search for Tapestry topics, the
>>> results are truly bad, because they are obscured by outdated
>>> documentation for Tapestry 4 and older versions of Tapestry 5. This
>>> makes Tapestry documentation seem much worse than it really is. (I
>>> happen to think the newer stuff is pretty good.)
>>>
>>> The root problem is that Tapestry's long history of documentation
>>> versions makes it hard for Google to tell which version is the best.
>>> For example, searching for "tapestry component parameters" (without
>>> quotes) results in:
>>>
>>> 1) http://tapestry.apache.org/tapestry5/guide/parameters.html
>>> 2) http://tapestry.apache.org/tapestry4/UsersGuide/components.html
>>> 3) http://tapestry.apache.org/tapestry5.1/guide/coercion.html
>>> 4) http://tapestry.formos.com/nightly/tapestry5/tapestry-component-report/
>>>
>>> ...and hundreds of other links that are relevant but sub-optimal.
>>>
>>> The true best page is really
>>> http://tapestry.apache.org/component-parameters.html -- but I couldn't
>>> find that page in any of the top 200 results. And other search terms
>>> are similarly disappointing.
>>>
>>> What's the solution? I propose doing the following:
>>>
>>> 1) Bulk edit or republish old 3.x and 4.x documentation pages to add a
>>> prominent banner added at the top pointing to the corresponding page
>>> in the newest documentation. The old content would remain in the
>>> pages.
>>>
>>> 2) Bulk edit or republish old 5.x documentation with all text REMOVED
>>> and a prominent banner added at the top pointing to the corresponding
>>> page in the newest documentation.
>>>
>>> 3) Finding a way to tell Google what older pages are "archived" and
>>> "low priority" and what new ones are "high priority". I guess a
>>> Sitemap (http://www.google.com/support/webmasters/bin/answer.py?answer=183668)
>>> can do that.
>>>
>>> I'm willing to work on these, though ultimately I'll need a
>>> committer's assistance for #1 and #2.
>>>
>>> What do you all think? Any other ideas?
>>>
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@tapestry.apache.org
>>>
>>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@tapestry.apache.org
>>
>>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@tapestry.apache.org
>
>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
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Re: Wanted: better Google results
Posted by Bob Harner <bo...@gmail.com>.
Well, I did create http://tapestry.apache.org/search.html a few months
back, and it works much better than the general Google search. We
still need to figure out how to integrate it or something like it into
the site. That involves working with the template that I don't have
write-access to.
Anyway, most people will still tend to use the standard Google search.
On Fri, May 27, 2011 at 10:43 PM, Kalle Korhonen
<ka...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Agree, I'll help. I think one decent solution is a Google Custom
> Search. There was a previous effort underway, but I don't know what
> happened to it. If we could just properly search our own
> documentation, that would already be a huge improvement.
>
> Kalle
>
>
> On Fri, May 27, 2011 at 6:52 PM, Bob Harner <bo...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Most of the time when I use Google to search for Tapestry topics, the
>> results are truly bad, because they are obscured by outdated
>> documentation for Tapestry 4 and older versions of Tapestry 5. This
>> makes Tapestry documentation seem much worse than it really is. (I
>> happen to think the newer stuff is pretty good.)
>>
>> The root problem is that Tapestry's long history of documentation
>> versions makes it hard for Google to tell which version is the best.
>> For example, searching for "tapestry component parameters" (without
>> quotes) results in:
>>
>> 1) http://tapestry.apache.org/tapestry5/guide/parameters.html
>> 2) http://tapestry.apache.org/tapestry4/UsersGuide/components.html
>> 3) http://tapestry.apache.org/tapestry5.1/guide/coercion.html
>> 4) http://tapestry.formos.com/nightly/tapestry5/tapestry-component-report/
>>
>> ...and hundreds of other links that are relevant but sub-optimal.
>>
>> The true best page is really
>> http://tapestry.apache.org/component-parameters.html -- but I couldn't
>> find that page in any of the top 200 results. And other search terms
>> are similarly disappointing.
>>
>> What's the solution? I propose doing the following:
>>
>> 1) Bulk edit or republish old 3.x and 4.x documentation pages to add a
>> prominent banner added at the top pointing to the corresponding page
>> in the newest documentation. The old content would remain in the
>> pages.
>>
>> 2) Bulk edit or republish old 5.x documentation with all text REMOVED
>> and a prominent banner added at the top pointing to the corresponding
>> page in the newest documentation.
>>
>> 3) Finding a way to tell Google what older pages are "archived" and
>> "low priority" and what new ones are "high priority". I guess a
>> Sitemap (http://www.google.com/support/webmasters/bin/answer.py?answer=183668)
>> can do that.
>>
>> I'm willing to work on these, though ultimately I'll need a
>> committer's assistance for #1 and #2.
>>
>> What do you all think? Any other ideas?
>>
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>>
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Re: Wanted: better Google results
Posted by Kalle Korhonen <ka...@gmail.com>.
Agree, I'll help. I think one decent solution is a Google Custom
Search. There was a previous effort underway, but I don't know what
happened to it. If we could just properly search our own
documentation, that would already be a huge improvement.
Kalle
On Fri, May 27, 2011 at 6:52 PM, Bob Harner <bo...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Most of the time when I use Google to search for Tapestry topics, the
> results are truly bad, because they are obscured by outdated
> documentation for Tapestry 4 and older versions of Tapestry 5. This
> makes Tapestry documentation seem much worse than it really is. (I
> happen to think the newer stuff is pretty good.)
>
> The root problem is that Tapestry's long history of documentation
> versions makes it hard for Google to tell which version is the best.
> For example, searching for "tapestry component parameters" (without
> quotes) results in:
>
> 1) http://tapestry.apache.org/tapestry5/guide/parameters.html
> 2) http://tapestry.apache.org/tapestry4/UsersGuide/components.html
> 3) http://tapestry.apache.org/tapestry5.1/guide/coercion.html
> 4) http://tapestry.formos.com/nightly/tapestry5/tapestry-component-report/
>
> ...and hundreds of other links that are relevant but sub-optimal.
>
> The true best page is really
> http://tapestry.apache.org/component-parameters.html -- but I couldn't
> find that page in any of the top 200 results. And other search terms
> are similarly disappointing.
>
> What's the solution? I propose doing the following:
>
> 1) Bulk edit or republish old 3.x and 4.x documentation pages to add a
> prominent banner added at the top pointing to the corresponding page
> in the newest documentation. The old content would remain in the
> pages.
>
> 2) Bulk edit or republish old 5.x documentation with all text REMOVED
> and a prominent banner added at the top pointing to the corresponding
> page in the newest documentation.
>
> 3) Finding a way to tell Google what older pages are "archived" and
> "low priority" and what new ones are "high priority". I guess a
> Sitemap (http://www.google.com/support/webmasters/bin/answer.py?answer=183668)
> can do that.
>
> I'm willing to work on these, though ultimately I'll need a
> committer's assistance for #1 and #2.
>
> What do you all think? Any other ideas?
>
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