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Posted to dev@cordova.apache.org by Jesse <pu...@gmail.com> on 2013/11/14 21:39:16 UTC
Windows8 and 8.1, to merge or to branch
New thread, with some context:
Maxime LUCE, Discussing whether the windows8 implementation 'becomes' the
8.1 implementation or not.
http://markmail.org/message/dgnijktspuhgaeyc
About Windows 8.1, do you think it's a great thing to not have both
> platforms ?
> I told to some Microsoft spoke persons last week and they said to me that
> the update of Windows 8.1 is relatively slow. So they encourage anyone
> which develop an application to develop a version for both version of their
> OS to ensure that anyone can download the app.
> If you update Windows 8 platform to be the Windows 8.1 one, Cordova's
> users will not be allowed to support both version of their app.
> I think we must provide both version (like wp7, wp8) for at least one year
> to let developers the ability to support both version of the OS.
The difference here is that wp7 devices cannot be upgraded to wp8 OS
ALL devices that currently run 8.0 are capable of running 8.1 AND it is
free.
The facebook app for example, will not run on windows8, it requires 8.1, at
some point we would do the same, and anyone who wanted to target 8.0 would
just need to use an older version of cordova to do it.
With changes to the platforms.js in cordova-cli we could potentially keep
this open for now, with the knowledge that the windows8 folder will
eventually merge with the windows8.1
I just don't want to have 2 platforms exposed to plugman, 2 parsers in
cordova-cli, 2 outputs from cordova-js and 2 versions of every file in
every plugin.
@purplecabbage
risingj.com
RE: Windows8 and 8.1, to merge or to branch
Posted by Maxime LUCE <Ma...@somatic.fr>.
I will try to explain why I think there must be two separate platforms for Windows 8 and Windows 8.1.
Sorry if some ideas are not well worded, I'm French and sometimes it's not easy !!
1. It allow those who want to use IE 11 additions like WebGL, canvas additions, or videos to start developing their app.
I think game developers would be happy to port their WebGL games to Windows 8.1.
IE 11 changes: http://msdn.microsoft.com/fr-fr/library/ie/bg182636(v=vs.85).aspx
WebGL: http://msdn.microsoft.com/fr-fr/library/ie/bg182648(v=vs.85).aspx
2. IE 11 rendering agent is far more efficient than IE 10 one. So any app would benefit of using "plain Windows 8.1 mode" (not IE 10 emulation).
End users would have a better experience with better animations, rendering time, javascript speed ...
Moreover, the new snapped mode of Windows 8.1 allows apps to have any widths (in Windows 8 it was only 1/3, 2/3, full). As HTML 5 apps are generally responsive, almost any app could profit of this and increase its end user experience. If using Windows 8 emulation mode there is an ugly effect, with black borders on your app size (not great for UX !...).
3. Almost any app which is compatible with Windows 8 would be compatible with Windows 8.1. So it's just a build in console for developers (using cordova-cli), it invites them to have both version of their app for a better end user experience.
4. If you see my work (cf. 6. My work), you can notice that the addition of Windows 8.1 is easy to create and to maintain, we can redirect almost all plugins proxies using plugin.xml.
The only things we have to provide separately is a template project (few differences), a windows81_parser, a bootstrap, and a field in platforms.js of cordova-cli, and cordova-plugman.
I integrated an idea of a 'windows' global merge level (like 'wp' for both Windows Phone 7 and 8).
5. If this "too much" work for you, I propose myself as additional maintainer of Windows platforms as I have experience in that domain and I use it heavily in my apps.
6. My work :
Cordova-cli: https://github.com/Touchit/cordova-cli/tree/CB-5107
Cordova-plugman: https://github.com/Touchit/cordova-plugman/tree/CB-5107
Cordova-js: https://github.com/touchit/cordova-js/tree/CB-5108
Cordova-windows: https://github.com/Touchit/cordova-windows/tree/CB-5110
A plugin to see plugin.xml : https://github.com/Touchit/cordova-plugin-dialogs/blob/CB-5112/plugin.xml (others in same account, same branch name)
Sorry if there is some ugly explanations...
Cordialement.
----------------------------
Maxime LUCE
maxime@touchit.fr
06 28 60 72 34
http://touchit.fr
-----Original Message-----
From: Jesse [mailto:purplecabbage@gmail.com]
Sent: vendredi 15 novembre 2013 00:13
To: dev@cordova.apache.org
Subject: Re: Windows8 and 8.1, to merge or to branch
Thanks for weighing in Parashuram.
There are additionally some complications with project types that are important to consider, as well as which version of winjs to include.
The winjs inclusion can be solved simply by looking at the user-agent string to determine if you are in an IE10 or IE11 container, however a vs-project that is referencing 8.1 has different requirements than one that is referencing 8.0
Not sure how to overcome the following generically:
<ItemGroup>
<SDKReference Include="Microsoft.WinJS.1.0, Version=1.0" /> </ItemGroup> or <TargetPlatformVersion>8.0</TargetPlatformVersion>
or
<VisualStudioVersion>11.0</VisualStudioVersion>
@purplecabbage
risingj.com
On Thu, Nov 14, 2013 at 2:20 PM, Parashuram Narasimhan (MS OPEN TECH) < panarasi@microsoft.com> wrote:
> I second Jesse's observation. Unless the developer uses APIs that are
> specific and new in Windows 8.1, allowing the development for Windows
> 8 should be ideal as those apps can also be installed on 8.1
>
> The hope is, when most people upgrade from Windows 8 to Windows 8.1,
> the platform can be switched. Alternatively, if people want to use
> APIs that are specific to Windows 8.1, can they not be inside plugins ?
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jesse [mailto:purplecabbage@gmail.com]
> Sent: Thursday, November 14, 2013 12:39 PM
> To: dev@cordova.apache.org
> Subject: Windows8 and 8.1, to merge or to branch
>
> New thread, with some context:
>
> Maxime LUCE, Discussing whether the windows8 implementation 'becomes'
> the
> 8.1 implementation or not.
> http://markmail.org/message/dgnijktspuhgaeyc
>
> About Windows 8.1, do you think it's a great thing to not have both
> > platforms ?
> > I told to some Microsoft spoke persons last week and they said to me
> > that the update of Windows 8.1 is relatively slow. So they encourage
> > anyone which develop an application to develop a version for both
> > version of their OS to ensure that anyone can download the app.
> > If you update Windows 8 platform to be the Windows 8.1 one,
> > Cordova's users will not be allowed to support both version of their app.
> > I think we must provide both version (like wp7, wp8) for at least
> > one year to let developers the ability to support both version of the OS.
>
>
>
> The difference here is that wp7 devices cannot be upgraded to wp8 OS
> ALL devices that currently run 8.0 are capable of running 8.1 AND it is free.
> The facebook app for example, will not run on windows8, it requires
> 8.1, at some point we would do the same, and anyone who wanted to
> target 8.0 would just need to use an older version of cordova to do it.
>
> With changes to the platforms.js in cordova-cli we could potentially
> keep this open for now, with the knowledge that the windows8 folder
> will eventually merge with the windows8.1
>
> I just don't want to have 2 platforms exposed to plugman, 2 parsers in
> cordova-cli, 2 outputs from cordova-js and 2 versions of every file in
> every plugin.
>
>
>
> @purplecabbage
> risingj.com
>
Re: Windows8 and 8.1, to merge or to branch
Posted by Jesse <pu...@gmail.com>.
Thanks for weighing in Parashuram.
There are additionally some complications with project types that are
important to consider, as well as which version of winjs to include.
The winjs inclusion can be solved simply by looking at the user-agent
string to determine if you are in an IE10 or IE11 container, however a
vs-project that is referencing 8.1 has different requirements than one that
is referencing 8.0
Not sure how to overcome the following generically:
<ItemGroup>
<SDKReference Include="Microsoft.WinJS.1.0, Version=1.0" />
</ItemGroup>
or
<TargetPlatformVersion>8.0</TargetPlatformVersion>
or
<VisualStudioVersion>11.0</VisualStudioVersion>
@purplecabbage
risingj.com
On Thu, Nov 14, 2013 at 2:20 PM, Parashuram Narasimhan (MS OPEN TECH) <
panarasi@microsoft.com> wrote:
> I second Jesse's observation. Unless the developer uses APIs that are
> specific and new in Windows 8.1, allowing the development for Windows 8
> should be ideal as those apps can also be installed on 8.1
>
> The hope is, when most people upgrade from Windows 8 to Windows 8.1, the
> platform can be switched. Alternatively, if people want to use APIs that
> are specific to Windows 8.1, can they not be inside plugins ?
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jesse [mailto:purplecabbage@gmail.com]
> Sent: Thursday, November 14, 2013 12:39 PM
> To: dev@cordova.apache.org
> Subject: Windows8 and 8.1, to merge or to branch
>
> New thread, with some context:
>
> Maxime LUCE, Discussing whether the windows8 implementation 'becomes' the
> 8.1 implementation or not.
> http://markmail.org/message/dgnijktspuhgaeyc
>
> About Windows 8.1, do you think it's a great thing to not have both
> > platforms ?
> > I told to some Microsoft spoke persons last week and they said to me
> > that the update of Windows 8.1 is relatively slow. So they encourage
> > anyone which develop an application to develop a version for both
> > version of their OS to ensure that anyone can download the app.
> > If you update Windows 8 platform to be the Windows 8.1 one, Cordova's
> > users will not be allowed to support both version of their app.
> > I think we must provide both version (like wp7, wp8) for at least one
> > year to let developers the ability to support both version of the OS.
>
>
>
> The difference here is that wp7 devices cannot be upgraded to wp8 OS ALL
> devices that currently run 8.0 are capable of running 8.1 AND it is free.
> The facebook app for example, will not run on windows8, it requires 8.1,
> at some point we would do the same, and anyone who wanted to target 8.0
> would just need to use an older version of cordova to do it.
>
> With changes to the platforms.js in cordova-cli we could potentially keep
> this open for now, with the knowledge that the windows8 folder will
> eventually merge with the windows8.1
>
> I just don't want to have 2 platforms exposed to plugman, 2 parsers in
> cordova-cli, 2 outputs from cordova-js and 2 versions of every file in
> every plugin.
>
>
>
> @purplecabbage
> risingj.com
>
RE: Windows8 and 8.1, to merge or to branch
Posted by "Parashuram Narasimhan (MS OPEN TECH)" <pa...@microsoft.com>.
I second Jesse's observation. Unless the developer uses APIs that are specific and new in Windows 8.1, allowing the development for Windows 8 should be ideal as those apps can also be installed on 8.1
The hope is, when most people upgrade from Windows 8 to Windows 8.1, the platform can be switched. Alternatively, if people want to use APIs that are specific to Windows 8.1, can they not be inside plugins ?
-----Original Message-----
From: Jesse [mailto:purplecabbage@gmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, November 14, 2013 12:39 PM
To: dev@cordova.apache.org
Subject: Windows8 and 8.1, to merge or to branch
New thread, with some context:
Maxime LUCE, Discussing whether the windows8 implementation 'becomes' the
8.1 implementation or not.
http://markmail.org/message/dgnijktspuhgaeyc
About Windows 8.1, do you think it's a great thing to not have both
> platforms ?
> I told to some Microsoft spoke persons last week and they said to me
> that the update of Windows 8.1 is relatively slow. So they encourage
> anyone which develop an application to develop a version for both
> version of their OS to ensure that anyone can download the app.
> If you update Windows 8 platform to be the Windows 8.1 one, Cordova's
> users will not be allowed to support both version of their app.
> I think we must provide both version (like wp7, wp8) for at least one
> year to let developers the ability to support both version of the OS.
The difference here is that wp7 devices cannot be upgraded to wp8 OS ALL devices that currently run 8.0 are capable of running 8.1 AND it is free.
The facebook app for example, will not run on windows8, it requires 8.1, at some point we would do the same, and anyone who wanted to target 8.0 would just need to use an older version of cordova to do it.
With changes to the platforms.js in cordova-cli we could potentially keep this open for now, with the knowledge that the windows8 folder will eventually merge with the windows8.1
I just don't want to have 2 platforms exposed to plugman, 2 parsers in cordova-cli, 2 outputs from cordova-js and 2 versions of every file in every plugin.
@purplecabbage
risingj.com