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Posted to dev@servicemix.apache.org by "Mankovskii, Serge" <Se...@ca.com> on 2008/11/07 21:54:16 UTC
POLOKA proposal in context of existing Apache projects
Hi Davanum,
In our search for a Champion and Sponsor for the Poloka proposal
http://wiki.apache.org/incubator/PolokaProposal We looked into the
Savan, ServiceMix, Axis2, and MUSE projects.
We find that it makes most sense, so far, to have Poloka as a project
under Axis2. It also makes sense to go into the ServiceMix, that
implements WS-Notification already, but objectives of ServiceMix and
POLOKA are somewhat different in respect to POLOKA goal to provide a
stand-alone reference implementation of the spec. Bringing entire
ServiceMix in the picture might be too much. However ServiceMix could
benefit from the POLOKA work in the future.
Poloka (http://poloka.org) could create an Axis2 module implementing
handlers creating a messaging network for a federation of Axis2 servers.
This way we would be able to support
- Standalone WS-Notification compliant notification producer and
notification consumer
- Standalone WS-BrokeredNotification broker
- Federation of WS-BrokeredNotification brokers.
It would make sense to integrate Savan functionality within Poloka as
time goes but not other way around. I think so because Poloka objective
is broader than Savan objective in respect to:
- Broker support
Broker support is defined in WS-Notification and not in WS-Eventing.
Although it is possible that once a broker with WS-Eventing interface is
created, the picture might change.
- Subscription
WS-Eventing defines subscription language based on XPath (content-based
semantic). WS-Notification defines subscription Filers using Topic
Dialects (topic-based semantic), XPath over message content
(content-based semantic, same as in WS-Eventing), and resource
properties (optional and unclear semantics, needs refinement in the
spec).
- Matching performance
It seems that we can improve performance of XPath matching based on the
research done by the PADRES http://research.msrg.utoronto.ca/pub/Padres
project. It would be equally applicable to WS-Notification and
WS-Eventing. Naweed Tajuddin, a Master student of Prof. Arno Jacobsen,
is looking specifically into this issue for his master thesis.
What do you think?
We are looking for the input and guidance of the Apache community in
moving the POLOKA proposal forward. Please help!
Regards
Serge
RE: POLOKA proposal in context of existing Apache projects
Posted by "Mankovskii, Serge" <Se...@ca.com>.
Hi Sanjiva,
I think there is a lot of synergy between open source community and
university community. It is an interesting discussion to have. I am
talking to Ontario agencies responsible for innovation in the province
on that. We are thinking about a framework that would help to foster
university/open source connection and help it grow.
Thank you fro the offer to mentor the project. In respect to a Champion,
I will follow in both directions. I will post the request in the
private@ws.apache.org and also will try to request Incubator PMC to
Champion the project. I am not sure how to request the PMC though.
Cheers
Serge
-----Original Message-----
From: Sanjiva Weerawarana [mailto:sanjiva@opensource.lk]
Sent: Saturday, November 08, 2008 4:56 PM
To: Mankovskii, Serge
Cc: general@incubator.apache.org; savan-dev@ws.apache.org;
dev@servicemix.apache.org; axis-dev@ws.apache.org
Subject: Re: POLOKA proposal in context of existing Apache projects
Hi Serge,
Sorry to not have recognized the name .. small world eh? :-).
OK now I understand the project - I've been long advocating universities
to participate in open source as I see universities as our research
division! That's the way we can beat any corporate research division
;-).
I'm happy to mentor it and champion it. However, let me try to find
another champion though just because of practical time issues ..
In terms of sponsor- if you want the WS PMC to sponsor it then you need
to
make the request to private@ws.apache.org. Alternatively, we can ask the
Incubator PMC to sponsor it .. IMO that's easier and that sort of gives
you more flexibility in deciding your final ASF home upon graduation.
Sanjiva.
Mankovskii, Serge wrote:
> Hi Sanjiva,
>
> It is great to hear from you! I think we've met during EDCIS 2002 in
> Beijing. Arno Jacobsen was there too. It looks like you know Peter
> Niblett for a while as well!
>
> It looks like at the movement that we are not able to secure a member
of
> Apache that would Champion and Sponsor us. I think we need to ask PMC
to
> do that. Can you help us there?
>
> Yes, there is code, and a lot of it. But the code is focused on the
> pub/sub matching, messaging, and federation. It does not use any of WS
> stack at the moment and it does not follow any standards. We are going
> to release this code and then work it into the standards stack. It
will
> bring results of six year research into the open source in a way that
> everybody would be able to use it.
>
> Reference Implementation means that within the project there will be
it
> will be a distribution that would contain all that WS-N stack requires
> and no more or no less than that. To accomplish this objective within
> MUSE without totally re-implementing it might be a problem.
>
>
>
> Cheers
> Serge
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Sanjiva Weerawarana [mailto:sanjiva@opensource.lk]
> Sent: Friday, November 07, 2008 10:45 PM
> To: general@incubator.apache.org
> Cc: Mankovskii, Serge; savan-dev@ws.apache.org;
> dev@servicemix.apache.org; axis-dev@ws.apache.org
> Subject: Re: POLOKA proposal in context of existing Apache projects
>
> Deepal, that's cart before the horse .. this project needs to get to
> graduation first :).
>
> Serge, are you asking for the WS PMC to sponsor this project for
> incubation?
>
> If so, how does this relate to the WS-Notification impl we already
have
> on
> top of Axis2? (Muse?) Having one by no means does not mean there can't
> be
> another; just trying to understand the relationship.
>
> Is there code already developed that you're looking to contribute to
the
>
> ASF? Or are you proposing to write new code?? The first line of the
> proposal starts with "Poloka will be a standalone reference
> implementation
> ..". Later text suggests there's working code, but if there is no
> working
> code the right model is to join the existing community and build on
that
>
> codebase.
>
> What does "reference implementation" mean?
>
> [Hi Peter (Niblett)! Long time :) ..]
>
> Sanjiva.
>
> Deepal jayasinghe wrote:
>> I think we can keep this as the same level as Sandesha and Ramparrt.
I
>> mean we do not have any modules other than core stuff under Axis2.
>>
>> Deepal
>>> Serge,
>>>
>>> Unfortunately i won't be able to help much at this time due to time
>>> pressures. Hopefully one of my fellow PMC members may be interested
> in
>>> moving this forward. Best Wishes.
>>>
>>> thanks,
>>> dims
>>>
>>> On Fri, Nov 7, 2008 at 3:54 PM, Mankovskii, Serge
>>> <Se...@ca.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi Davanum,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> In our search for a Champion and Sponsor for the Poloka proposal
>>>> http://wiki.apache.org/incubator/PolokaProposal We looked into the
> Savan,
>>>> ServiceMix, Axis2, and MUSE projects.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> We find that it makes most sense, so far, to have Poloka as a
> project under
>>>> Axis2. It also makes sense to go into the ServiceMix, that
> implements
>>>> WS-Notification already, but objectives of ServiceMix and POLOKA
are
>>>> somewhat different in respect to POLOKA goal to provide a
> stand-alone
>>>> reference implementation of the spec. Bringing entire ServiceMix in
> the
>>>> picture might be too much. However ServiceMix could benefit from
the
> POLOKA
>>>> work in the future.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Poloka (http://poloka.org) could create an Axis2 module
implementing
>>>> handlers creating a messaging network for a federation of Axis2
> servers.
>>>> This way we would be able to support
>>>>
>>>> - Standalone WS-Notification compliant notification producer
> and
>>>> notification consumer
>>>>
>>>> - Standalone WS-BrokeredNotification broker
>>>>
>>>> - Federation of WS-BrokeredNotification brokers.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> It would make sense to integrate Savan functionality within Poloka
> as time
>>>> goes but not other way around. I think so because Poloka objective
> is
>>>> broader than Savan objective in respect to:
>>>>
>>>> - Broker support
>>>>
>>>> Broker support is defined in WS-Notification and not in
WS-Eventing.
>>>> Although it is possible that once a broker with WS-Eventing
> interface is
>>>> created, the picture might change.
>>>>
>>>> - Subscription
>>>>
>>>> WS-Eventing defines subscription language based on XPath
> (content-based
>>>> semantic). WS-Notification defines subscription Filers using Topic
> Dialects
>>>> (topic-based semantic), XPath over message content (content-based
> semantic,
>>>> same as in WS-Eventing), and resource properties (optional and
> unclear
>>>> semantics, needs refinement in the spec).
>>>>
>>>> - Matching performance
>>>>
>>>> It seems that we can improve performance of XPath matching based on
> the
>>>> research done by the PADRES
> http://research.msrg.utoronto.ca/pub/Padres
>>>> project. It would be equally applicable to WS-Notification and
> WS-Eventing.
>>>> Naweed Tajuddin, a Master student of Prof. Arno Jacobsen, is
looking
>>>> specifically into this issue for his master thesis.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> What do you think?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> We are looking for the input and guidance of the Apache community
in
> moving
>>>> the POLOKA proposal forward. Please help!
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Regards
>>>>
>>>> Serge
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>
--
Sanjiva Weerawarana, Ph.D.
Founder & Director; Lanka Software Foundation; http://www.opensource.lk/
Founder, Chairman & CEO; WSO2, Inc.; http://www.wso2.com/
Member; Apache Software Foundation; http://www.apache.org/
Visiting Lecturer; University of Moratuwa; http://www.cse.mrt.ac.lk/
Blog: http://sanjiva.weerawarana.org/
RE: POLOKA proposal in context of existing Apache projects
Posted by "Mankovskii, Serge" <Se...@ca.com>.
Hi Sanjiva,
I think there is a lot of synergy between open source community and
university community. It is an interesting discussion to have. I am
talking to Ontario agencies responsible for innovation in the province
on that. We are thinking about a framework that would help to foster
university/open source connection and help it grow.
Thank you fro the offer to mentor the project. In respect to a Champion,
I will follow in both directions. I will post the request in the
private@ws.apache.org and also will try to request Incubator PMC to
Champion the project. I am not sure how to request the PMC though.
Cheers
Serge
-----Original Message-----
From: Sanjiva Weerawarana [mailto:sanjiva@opensource.lk]
Sent: Saturday, November 08, 2008 4:56 PM
To: Mankovskii, Serge
Cc: general@incubator.apache.org; savan-dev@ws.apache.org;
dev@servicemix.apache.org; axis-dev@ws.apache.org
Subject: Re: POLOKA proposal in context of existing Apache projects
Hi Serge,
Sorry to not have recognized the name .. small world eh? :-).
OK now I understand the project - I've been long advocating universities
to participate in open source as I see universities as our research
division! That's the way we can beat any corporate research division
;-).
I'm happy to mentor it and champion it. However, let me try to find
another champion though just because of practical time issues ..
In terms of sponsor- if you want the WS PMC to sponsor it then you need
to
make the request to private@ws.apache.org. Alternatively, we can ask the
Incubator PMC to sponsor it .. IMO that's easier and that sort of gives
you more flexibility in deciding your final ASF home upon graduation.
Sanjiva.
Mankovskii, Serge wrote:
> Hi Sanjiva,
>
> It is great to hear from you! I think we've met during EDCIS 2002 in
> Beijing. Arno Jacobsen was there too. It looks like you know Peter
> Niblett for a while as well!
>
> It looks like at the movement that we are not able to secure a member
of
> Apache that would Champion and Sponsor us. I think we need to ask PMC
to
> do that. Can you help us there?
>
> Yes, there is code, and a lot of it. But the code is focused on the
> pub/sub matching, messaging, and federation. It does not use any of WS
> stack at the moment and it does not follow any standards. We are going
> to release this code and then work it into the standards stack. It
will
> bring results of six year research into the open source in a way that
> everybody would be able to use it.
>
> Reference Implementation means that within the project there will be
it
> will be a distribution that would contain all that WS-N stack requires
> and no more or no less than that. To accomplish this objective within
> MUSE without totally re-implementing it might be a problem.
>
>
>
> Cheers
> Serge
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Sanjiva Weerawarana [mailto:sanjiva@opensource.lk]
> Sent: Friday, November 07, 2008 10:45 PM
> To: general@incubator.apache.org
> Cc: Mankovskii, Serge; savan-dev@ws.apache.org;
> dev@servicemix.apache.org; axis-dev@ws.apache.org
> Subject: Re: POLOKA proposal in context of existing Apache projects
>
> Deepal, that's cart before the horse .. this project needs to get to
> graduation first :).
>
> Serge, are you asking for the WS PMC to sponsor this project for
> incubation?
>
> If so, how does this relate to the WS-Notification impl we already
have
> on
> top of Axis2? (Muse?) Having one by no means does not mean there can't
> be
> another; just trying to understand the relationship.
>
> Is there code already developed that you're looking to contribute to
the
>
> ASF? Or are you proposing to write new code?? The first line of the
> proposal starts with "Poloka will be a standalone reference
> implementation
> ..". Later text suggests there's working code, but if there is no
> working
> code the right model is to join the existing community and build on
that
>
> codebase.
>
> What does "reference implementation" mean?
>
> [Hi Peter (Niblett)! Long time :) ..]
>
> Sanjiva.
>
> Deepal jayasinghe wrote:
>> I think we can keep this as the same level as Sandesha and Ramparrt.
I
>> mean we do not have any modules other than core stuff under Axis2.
>>
>> Deepal
>>> Serge,
>>>
>>> Unfortunately i won't be able to help much at this time due to time
>>> pressures. Hopefully one of my fellow PMC members may be interested
> in
>>> moving this forward. Best Wishes.
>>>
>>> thanks,
>>> dims
>>>
>>> On Fri, Nov 7, 2008 at 3:54 PM, Mankovskii, Serge
>>> <Se...@ca.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi Davanum,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> In our search for a Champion and Sponsor for the Poloka proposal
>>>> http://wiki.apache.org/incubator/PolokaProposal We looked into the
> Savan,
>>>> ServiceMix, Axis2, and MUSE projects.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> We find that it makes most sense, so far, to have Poloka as a
> project under
>>>> Axis2. It also makes sense to go into the ServiceMix, that
> implements
>>>> WS-Notification already, but objectives of ServiceMix and POLOKA
are
>>>> somewhat different in respect to POLOKA goal to provide a
> stand-alone
>>>> reference implementation of the spec. Bringing entire ServiceMix in
> the
>>>> picture might be too much. However ServiceMix could benefit from
the
> POLOKA
>>>> work in the future.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Poloka (http://poloka.org) could create an Axis2 module
implementing
>>>> handlers creating a messaging network for a federation of Axis2
> servers.
>>>> This way we would be able to support
>>>>
>>>> - Standalone WS-Notification compliant notification producer
> and
>>>> notification consumer
>>>>
>>>> - Standalone WS-BrokeredNotification broker
>>>>
>>>> - Federation of WS-BrokeredNotification brokers.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> It would make sense to integrate Savan functionality within Poloka
> as time
>>>> goes but not other way around. I think so because Poloka objective
> is
>>>> broader than Savan objective in respect to:
>>>>
>>>> - Broker support
>>>>
>>>> Broker support is defined in WS-Notification and not in
WS-Eventing.
>>>> Although it is possible that once a broker with WS-Eventing
> interface is
>>>> created, the picture might change.
>>>>
>>>> - Subscription
>>>>
>>>> WS-Eventing defines subscription language based on XPath
> (content-based
>>>> semantic). WS-Notification defines subscription Filers using Topic
> Dialects
>>>> (topic-based semantic), XPath over message content (content-based
> semantic,
>>>> same as in WS-Eventing), and resource properties (optional and
> unclear
>>>> semantics, needs refinement in the spec).
>>>>
>>>> - Matching performance
>>>>
>>>> It seems that we can improve performance of XPath matching based on
> the
>>>> research done by the PADRES
> http://research.msrg.utoronto.ca/pub/Padres
>>>> project. It would be equally applicable to WS-Notification and
> WS-Eventing.
>>>> Naweed Tajuddin, a Master student of Prof. Arno Jacobsen, is
looking
>>>> specifically into this issue for his master thesis.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> What do you think?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> We are looking for the input and guidance of the Apache community
in
> moving
>>>> the POLOKA proposal forward. Please help!
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Regards
>>>>
>>>> Serge
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>
--
Sanjiva Weerawarana, Ph.D.
Founder & Director; Lanka Software Foundation; http://www.opensource.lk/
Founder, Chairman & CEO; WSO2, Inc.; http://www.wso2.com/
Member; Apache Software Foundation; http://www.apache.org/
Visiting Lecturer; University of Moratuwa; http://www.cse.mrt.ac.lk/
Blog: http://sanjiva.weerawarana.org/
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RE: POLOKA proposal in context of existing Apache projects
Posted by "Mankovskii, Serge" <Se...@ca.com>.
Hello Sanjiva
Following your suggestion I have sent a request to champion the POLOKA
project to private@ws.apache.org and pmc@incubator.apache.org
I am not sure what the next step will be because, obviously, I cannot
subscribe to the private lists.
Cheers
Serge
-----Original Message-----
From: Sanjiva Weerawarana [mailto:sanjiva@opensource.lk]
Sent: Saturday, November 08, 2008 4:56 PM
To: Mankovskii, Serge
Cc: general@incubator.apache.org; savan-dev@ws.apache.org;
dev@servicemix.apache.org; axis-dev@ws.apache.org
Subject: Re: POLOKA proposal in context of existing Apache projects
Hi Serge,
Sorry to not have recognized the name .. small world eh? :-).
OK now I understand the project - I've been long advocating universities
to participate in open source as I see universities as our research
division! That's the way we can beat any corporate research division
;-).
I'm happy to mentor it and champion it. However, let me try to find
another champion though just because of practical time issues ..
In terms of sponsor- if you want the WS PMC to sponsor it then you need
to
make the request to private@ws.apache.org. Alternatively, we can ask the
Incubator PMC to sponsor it .. IMO that's easier and that sort of gives
you more flexibility in deciding your final ASF home upon graduation.
Sanjiva.
Mankovskii, Serge wrote:
> Hi Sanjiva,
>
> It is great to hear from you! I think we've met during EDCIS 2002 in
> Beijing. Arno Jacobsen was there too. It looks like you know Peter
> Niblett for a while as well!
>
> It looks like at the movement that we are not able to secure a member
of
> Apache that would Champion and Sponsor us. I think we need to ask PMC
to
> do that. Can you help us there?
>
> Yes, there is code, and a lot of it. But the code is focused on the
> pub/sub matching, messaging, and federation. It does not use any of WS
> stack at the moment and it does not follow any standards. We are going
> to release this code and then work it into the standards stack. It
will
> bring results of six year research into the open source in a way that
> everybody would be able to use it.
>
> Reference Implementation means that within the project there will be
it
> will be a distribution that would contain all that WS-N stack requires
> and no more or no less than that. To accomplish this objective within
> MUSE without totally re-implementing it might be a problem.
>
>
>
> Cheers
> Serge
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Sanjiva Weerawarana [mailto:sanjiva@opensource.lk]
> Sent: Friday, November 07, 2008 10:45 PM
> To: general@incubator.apache.org
> Cc: Mankovskii, Serge; savan-dev@ws.apache.org;
> dev@servicemix.apache.org; axis-dev@ws.apache.org
> Subject: Re: POLOKA proposal in context of existing Apache projects
>
> Deepal, that's cart before the horse .. this project needs to get to
> graduation first :).
>
> Serge, are you asking for the WS PMC to sponsor this project for
> incubation?
>
> If so, how does this relate to the WS-Notification impl we already
have
> on
> top of Axis2? (Muse?) Having one by no means does not mean there can't
> be
> another; just trying to understand the relationship.
>
> Is there code already developed that you're looking to contribute to
the
>
> ASF? Or are you proposing to write new code?? The first line of the
> proposal starts with "Poloka will be a standalone reference
> implementation
> ..". Later text suggests there's working code, but if there is no
> working
> code the right model is to join the existing community and build on
that
>
> codebase.
>
> What does "reference implementation" mean?
>
> [Hi Peter (Niblett)! Long time :) ..]
>
> Sanjiva.
>
> Deepal jayasinghe wrote:
>> I think we can keep this as the same level as Sandesha and Ramparrt.
I
>> mean we do not have any modules other than core stuff under Axis2.
>>
>> Deepal
>>> Serge,
>>>
>>> Unfortunately i won't be able to help much at this time due to time
>>> pressures. Hopefully one of my fellow PMC members may be interested
> in
>>> moving this forward. Best Wishes.
>>>
>>> thanks,
>>> dims
>>>
>>> On Fri, Nov 7, 2008 at 3:54 PM, Mankovskii, Serge
>>> <Se...@ca.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi Davanum,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> In our search for a Champion and Sponsor for the Poloka proposal
>>>> http://wiki.apache.org/incubator/PolokaProposal We looked into the
> Savan,
>>>> ServiceMix, Axis2, and MUSE projects.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> We find that it makes most sense, so far, to have Poloka as a
> project under
>>>> Axis2. It also makes sense to go into the ServiceMix, that
> implements
>>>> WS-Notification already, but objectives of ServiceMix and POLOKA
are
>>>> somewhat different in respect to POLOKA goal to provide a
> stand-alone
>>>> reference implementation of the spec. Bringing entire ServiceMix in
> the
>>>> picture might be too much. However ServiceMix could benefit from
the
> POLOKA
>>>> work in the future.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Poloka (http://poloka.org) could create an Axis2 module
implementing
>>>> handlers creating a messaging network for a federation of Axis2
> servers.
>>>> This way we would be able to support
>>>>
>>>> - Standalone WS-Notification compliant notification producer
> and
>>>> notification consumer
>>>>
>>>> - Standalone WS-BrokeredNotification broker
>>>>
>>>> - Federation of WS-BrokeredNotification brokers.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> It would make sense to integrate Savan functionality within Poloka
> as time
>>>> goes but not other way around. I think so because Poloka objective
> is
>>>> broader than Savan objective in respect to:
>>>>
>>>> - Broker support
>>>>
>>>> Broker support is defined in WS-Notification and not in
WS-Eventing.
>>>> Although it is possible that once a broker with WS-Eventing
> interface is
>>>> created, the picture might change.
>>>>
>>>> - Subscription
>>>>
>>>> WS-Eventing defines subscription language based on XPath
> (content-based
>>>> semantic). WS-Notification defines subscription Filers using Topic
> Dialects
>>>> (topic-based semantic), XPath over message content (content-based
> semantic,
>>>> same as in WS-Eventing), and resource properties (optional and
> unclear
>>>> semantics, needs refinement in the spec).
>>>>
>>>> - Matching performance
>>>>
>>>> It seems that we can improve performance of XPath matching based on
> the
>>>> research done by the PADRES
> http://research.msrg.utoronto.ca/pub/Padres
>>>> project. It would be equally applicable to WS-Notification and
> WS-Eventing.
>>>> Naweed Tajuddin, a Master student of Prof. Arno Jacobsen, is
looking
>>>> specifically into this issue for his master thesis.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> What do you think?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> We are looking for the input and guidance of the Apache community
in
> moving
>>>> the POLOKA proposal forward. Please help!
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Regards
>>>>
>>>> Serge
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>
--
Sanjiva Weerawarana, Ph.D.
Founder & Director; Lanka Software Foundation; http://www.opensource.lk/
Founder, Chairman & CEO; WSO2, Inc.; http://www.wso2.com/
Member; Apache Software Foundation; http://www.apache.org/
Visiting Lecturer; University of Moratuwa; http://www.cse.mrt.ac.lk/
Blog: http://sanjiva.weerawarana.org/
RE: POLOKA proposal in context of existing Apache projects
Posted by "Mankovskii, Serge" <Se...@ca.com>.
Hello Sanjiva
Following your suggestion I have sent a request to champion the POLOKA
project to private@ws.apache.org and pmc@incubator.apache.org
I am not sure what the next step will be because, obviously, I cannot
subscribe to the private lists.
Cheers
Serge
-----Original Message-----
From: Sanjiva Weerawarana [mailto:sanjiva@opensource.lk]
Sent: Saturday, November 08, 2008 4:56 PM
To: Mankovskii, Serge
Cc: general@incubator.apache.org; savan-dev@ws.apache.org;
dev@servicemix.apache.org; axis-dev@ws.apache.org
Subject: Re: POLOKA proposal in context of existing Apache projects
Hi Serge,
Sorry to not have recognized the name .. small world eh? :-).
OK now I understand the project - I've been long advocating universities
to participate in open source as I see universities as our research
division! That's the way we can beat any corporate research division
;-).
I'm happy to mentor it and champion it. However, let me try to find
another champion though just because of practical time issues ..
In terms of sponsor- if you want the WS PMC to sponsor it then you need
to
make the request to private@ws.apache.org. Alternatively, we can ask the
Incubator PMC to sponsor it .. IMO that's easier and that sort of gives
you more flexibility in deciding your final ASF home upon graduation.
Sanjiva.
Mankovskii, Serge wrote:
> Hi Sanjiva,
>
> It is great to hear from you! I think we've met during EDCIS 2002 in
> Beijing. Arno Jacobsen was there too. It looks like you know Peter
> Niblett for a while as well!
>
> It looks like at the movement that we are not able to secure a member
of
> Apache that would Champion and Sponsor us. I think we need to ask PMC
to
> do that. Can you help us there?
>
> Yes, there is code, and a lot of it. But the code is focused on the
> pub/sub matching, messaging, and federation. It does not use any of WS
> stack at the moment and it does not follow any standards. We are going
> to release this code and then work it into the standards stack. It
will
> bring results of six year research into the open source in a way that
> everybody would be able to use it.
>
> Reference Implementation means that within the project there will be
it
> will be a distribution that would contain all that WS-N stack requires
> and no more or no less than that. To accomplish this objective within
> MUSE without totally re-implementing it might be a problem.
>
>
>
> Cheers
> Serge
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Sanjiva Weerawarana [mailto:sanjiva@opensource.lk]
> Sent: Friday, November 07, 2008 10:45 PM
> To: general@incubator.apache.org
> Cc: Mankovskii, Serge; savan-dev@ws.apache.org;
> dev@servicemix.apache.org; axis-dev@ws.apache.org
> Subject: Re: POLOKA proposal in context of existing Apache projects
>
> Deepal, that's cart before the horse .. this project needs to get to
> graduation first :).
>
> Serge, are you asking for the WS PMC to sponsor this project for
> incubation?
>
> If so, how does this relate to the WS-Notification impl we already
have
> on
> top of Axis2? (Muse?) Having one by no means does not mean there can't
> be
> another; just trying to understand the relationship.
>
> Is there code already developed that you're looking to contribute to
the
>
> ASF? Or are you proposing to write new code?? The first line of the
> proposal starts with "Poloka will be a standalone reference
> implementation
> ..". Later text suggests there's working code, but if there is no
> working
> code the right model is to join the existing community and build on
that
>
> codebase.
>
> What does "reference implementation" mean?
>
> [Hi Peter (Niblett)! Long time :) ..]
>
> Sanjiva.
>
> Deepal jayasinghe wrote:
>> I think we can keep this as the same level as Sandesha and Ramparrt.
I
>> mean we do not have any modules other than core stuff under Axis2.
>>
>> Deepal
>>> Serge,
>>>
>>> Unfortunately i won't be able to help much at this time due to time
>>> pressures. Hopefully one of my fellow PMC members may be interested
> in
>>> moving this forward. Best Wishes.
>>>
>>> thanks,
>>> dims
>>>
>>> On Fri, Nov 7, 2008 at 3:54 PM, Mankovskii, Serge
>>> <Se...@ca.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi Davanum,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> In our search for a Champion and Sponsor for the Poloka proposal
>>>> http://wiki.apache.org/incubator/PolokaProposal We looked into the
> Savan,
>>>> ServiceMix, Axis2, and MUSE projects.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> We find that it makes most sense, so far, to have Poloka as a
> project under
>>>> Axis2. It also makes sense to go into the ServiceMix, that
> implements
>>>> WS-Notification already, but objectives of ServiceMix and POLOKA
are
>>>> somewhat different in respect to POLOKA goal to provide a
> stand-alone
>>>> reference implementation of the spec. Bringing entire ServiceMix in
> the
>>>> picture might be too much. However ServiceMix could benefit from
the
> POLOKA
>>>> work in the future.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Poloka (http://poloka.org) could create an Axis2 module
implementing
>>>> handlers creating a messaging network for a federation of Axis2
> servers.
>>>> This way we would be able to support
>>>>
>>>> - Standalone WS-Notification compliant notification producer
> and
>>>> notification consumer
>>>>
>>>> - Standalone WS-BrokeredNotification broker
>>>>
>>>> - Federation of WS-BrokeredNotification brokers.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> It would make sense to integrate Savan functionality within Poloka
> as time
>>>> goes but not other way around. I think so because Poloka objective
> is
>>>> broader than Savan objective in respect to:
>>>>
>>>> - Broker support
>>>>
>>>> Broker support is defined in WS-Notification and not in
WS-Eventing.
>>>> Although it is possible that once a broker with WS-Eventing
> interface is
>>>> created, the picture might change.
>>>>
>>>> - Subscription
>>>>
>>>> WS-Eventing defines subscription language based on XPath
> (content-based
>>>> semantic). WS-Notification defines subscription Filers using Topic
> Dialects
>>>> (topic-based semantic), XPath over message content (content-based
> semantic,
>>>> same as in WS-Eventing), and resource properties (optional and
> unclear
>>>> semantics, needs refinement in the spec).
>>>>
>>>> - Matching performance
>>>>
>>>> It seems that we can improve performance of XPath matching based on
> the
>>>> research done by the PADRES
> http://research.msrg.utoronto.ca/pub/Padres
>>>> project. It would be equally applicable to WS-Notification and
> WS-Eventing.
>>>> Naweed Tajuddin, a Master student of Prof. Arno Jacobsen, is
looking
>>>> specifically into this issue for his master thesis.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> What do you think?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> We are looking for the input and guidance of the Apache community
in
> moving
>>>> the POLOKA proposal forward. Please help!
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Regards
>>>>
>>>> Serge
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>
--
Sanjiva Weerawarana, Ph.D.
Founder & Director; Lanka Software Foundation; http://www.opensource.lk/
Founder, Chairman & CEO; WSO2, Inc.; http://www.wso2.com/
Member; Apache Software Foundation; http://www.apache.org/
Visiting Lecturer; University of Moratuwa; http://www.cse.mrt.ac.lk/
Blog: http://sanjiva.weerawarana.org/
RE: POLOKA proposal in context of existing Apache projects
Posted by "Mankovskii, Serge" <Se...@ca.com>.
Hi Sanjiva,
I think there is a lot of synergy between open source community and
university community. It is an interesting discussion to have. I am
talking to Ontario agencies responsible for innovation in the province
on that. We are thinking about a framework that would help to foster
university/open source connection and help it grow.
Thank you fro the offer to mentor the project. In respect to a Champion,
I will follow in both directions. I will post the request in the
private@ws.apache.org and also will try to request Incubator PMC to
Champion the project. I am not sure how to request the PMC though.
Cheers
Serge
-----Original Message-----
From: Sanjiva Weerawarana [mailto:sanjiva@opensource.lk]
Sent: Saturday, November 08, 2008 4:56 PM
To: Mankovskii, Serge
Cc: general@incubator.apache.org; savan-dev@ws.apache.org;
dev@servicemix.apache.org; axis-dev@ws.apache.org
Subject: Re: POLOKA proposal in context of existing Apache projects
Hi Serge,
Sorry to not have recognized the name .. small world eh? :-).
OK now I understand the project - I've been long advocating universities
to participate in open source as I see universities as our research
division! That's the way we can beat any corporate research division
;-).
I'm happy to mentor it and champion it. However, let me try to find
another champion though just because of practical time issues ..
In terms of sponsor- if you want the WS PMC to sponsor it then you need
to
make the request to private@ws.apache.org. Alternatively, we can ask the
Incubator PMC to sponsor it .. IMO that's easier and that sort of gives
you more flexibility in deciding your final ASF home upon graduation.
Sanjiva.
Mankovskii, Serge wrote:
> Hi Sanjiva,
>
> It is great to hear from you! I think we've met during EDCIS 2002 in
> Beijing. Arno Jacobsen was there too. It looks like you know Peter
> Niblett for a while as well!
>
> It looks like at the movement that we are not able to secure a member
of
> Apache that would Champion and Sponsor us. I think we need to ask PMC
to
> do that. Can you help us there?
>
> Yes, there is code, and a lot of it. But the code is focused on the
> pub/sub matching, messaging, and federation. It does not use any of WS
> stack at the moment and it does not follow any standards. We are going
> to release this code and then work it into the standards stack. It
will
> bring results of six year research into the open source in a way that
> everybody would be able to use it.
>
> Reference Implementation means that within the project there will be
it
> will be a distribution that would contain all that WS-N stack requires
> and no more or no less than that. To accomplish this objective within
> MUSE without totally re-implementing it might be a problem.
>
>
>
> Cheers
> Serge
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Sanjiva Weerawarana [mailto:sanjiva@opensource.lk]
> Sent: Friday, November 07, 2008 10:45 PM
> To: general@incubator.apache.org
> Cc: Mankovskii, Serge; savan-dev@ws.apache.org;
> dev@servicemix.apache.org; axis-dev@ws.apache.org
> Subject: Re: POLOKA proposal in context of existing Apache projects
>
> Deepal, that's cart before the horse .. this project needs to get to
> graduation first :).
>
> Serge, are you asking for the WS PMC to sponsor this project for
> incubation?
>
> If so, how does this relate to the WS-Notification impl we already
have
> on
> top of Axis2? (Muse?) Having one by no means does not mean there can't
> be
> another; just trying to understand the relationship.
>
> Is there code already developed that you're looking to contribute to
the
>
> ASF? Or are you proposing to write new code?? The first line of the
> proposal starts with "Poloka will be a standalone reference
> implementation
> ..". Later text suggests there's working code, but if there is no
> working
> code the right model is to join the existing community and build on
that
>
> codebase.
>
> What does "reference implementation" mean?
>
> [Hi Peter (Niblett)! Long time :) ..]
>
> Sanjiva.
>
> Deepal jayasinghe wrote:
>> I think we can keep this as the same level as Sandesha and Ramparrt.
I
>> mean we do not have any modules other than core stuff under Axis2.
>>
>> Deepal
>>> Serge,
>>>
>>> Unfortunately i won't be able to help much at this time due to time
>>> pressures. Hopefully one of my fellow PMC members may be interested
> in
>>> moving this forward. Best Wishes.
>>>
>>> thanks,
>>> dims
>>>
>>> On Fri, Nov 7, 2008 at 3:54 PM, Mankovskii, Serge
>>> <Se...@ca.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi Davanum,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> In our search for a Champion and Sponsor for the Poloka proposal
>>>> http://wiki.apache.org/incubator/PolokaProposal We looked into the
> Savan,
>>>> ServiceMix, Axis2, and MUSE projects.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> We find that it makes most sense, so far, to have Poloka as a
> project under
>>>> Axis2. It also makes sense to go into the ServiceMix, that
> implements
>>>> WS-Notification already, but objectives of ServiceMix and POLOKA
are
>>>> somewhat different in respect to POLOKA goal to provide a
> stand-alone
>>>> reference implementation of the spec. Bringing entire ServiceMix in
> the
>>>> picture might be too much. However ServiceMix could benefit from
the
> POLOKA
>>>> work in the future.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Poloka (http://poloka.org) could create an Axis2 module
implementing
>>>> handlers creating a messaging network for a federation of Axis2
> servers.
>>>> This way we would be able to support
>>>>
>>>> - Standalone WS-Notification compliant notification producer
> and
>>>> notification consumer
>>>>
>>>> - Standalone WS-BrokeredNotification broker
>>>>
>>>> - Federation of WS-BrokeredNotification brokers.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> It would make sense to integrate Savan functionality within Poloka
> as time
>>>> goes but not other way around. I think so because Poloka objective
> is
>>>> broader than Savan objective in respect to:
>>>>
>>>> - Broker support
>>>>
>>>> Broker support is defined in WS-Notification and not in
WS-Eventing.
>>>> Although it is possible that once a broker with WS-Eventing
> interface is
>>>> created, the picture might change.
>>>>
>>>> - Subscription
>>>>
>>>> WS-Eventing defines subscription language based on XPath
> (content-based
>>>> semantic). WS-Notification defines subscription Filers using Topic
> Dialects
>>>> (topic-based semantic), XPath over message content (content-based
> semantic,
>>>> same as in WS-Eventing), and resource properties (optional and
> unclear
>>>> semantics, needs refinement in the spec).
>>>>
>>>> - Matching performance
>>>>
>>>> It seems that we can improve performance of XPath matching based on
> the
>>>> research done by the PADRES
> http://research.msrg.utoronto.ca/pub/Padres
>>>> project. It would be equally applicable to WS-Notification and
> WS-Eventing.
>>>> Naweed Tajuddin, a Master student of Prof. Arno Jacobsen, is
looking
>>>> specifically into this issue for his master thesis.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> What do you think?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> We are looking for the input and guidance of the Apache community
in
> moving
>>>> the POLOKA proposal forward. Please help!
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Regards
>>>>
>>>> Serge
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>
--
Sanjiva Weerawarana, Ph.D.
Founder & Director; Lanka Software Foundation; http://www.opensource.lk/
Founder, Chairman & CEO; WSO2, Inc.; http://www.wso2.com/
Member; Apache Software Foundation; http://www.apache.org/
Visiting Lecturer; University of Moratuwa; http://www.cse.mrt.ac.lk/
Blog: http://sanjiva.weerawarana.org/
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RE: POLOKA proposal in context of existing Apache projects
Posted by "Mankovskii, Serge" <Se...@ca.com>.
Hi Sanjiva,
I think there is a lot of synergy between open source community and
university community. It is an interesting discussion to have. I am
talking to Ontario agencies responsible for innovation in the province
on that. We are thinking about a framework that would help to foster
university/open source connection and help it grow.
Thank you fro the offer to mentor the project. In respect to a Champion,
I will follow in both directions. I will post the request in the
private@ws.apache.org and also will try to request Incubator PMC to
Champion the project. I am not sure how to request the PMC though.
Cheers
Serge
-----Original Message-----
From: Sanjiva Weerawarana [mailto:sanjiva@opensource.lk]
Sent: Saturday, November 08, 2008 4:56 PM
To: Mankovskii, Serge
Cc: general@incubator.apache.org; savan-dev@ws.apache.org;
dev@servicemix.apache.org; axis-dev@ws.apache.org
Subject: Re: POLOKA proposal in context of existing Apache projects
Hi Serge,
Sorry to not have recognized the name .. small world eh? :-).
OK now I understand the project - I've been long advocating universities
to participate in open source as I see universities as our research
division! That's the way we can beat any corporate research division
;-).
I'm happy to mentor it and champion it. However, let me try to find
another champion though just because of practical time issues ..
In terms of sponsor- if you want the WS PMC to sponsor it then you need
to
make the request to private@ws.apache.org. Alternatively, we can ask the
Incubator PMC to sponsor it .. IMO that's easier and that sort of gives
you more flexibility in deciding your final ASF home upon graduation.
Sanjiva.
Mankovskii, Serge wrote:
> Hi Sanjiva,
>
> It is great to hear from you! I think we've met during EDCIS 2002 in
> Beijing. Arno Jacobsen was there too. It looks like you know Peter
> Niblett for a while as well!
>
> It looks like at the movement that we are not able to secure a member
of
> Apache that would Champion and Sponsor us. I think we need to ask PMC
to
> do that. Can you help us there?
>
> Yes, there is code, and a lot of it. But the code is focused on the
> pub/sub matching, messaging, and federation. It does not use any of WS
> stack at the moment and it does not follow any standards. We are going
> to release this code and then work it into the standards stack. It
will
> bring results of six year research into the open source in a way that
> everybody would be able to use it.
>
> Reference Implementation means that within the project there will be
it
> will be a distribution that would contain all that WS-N stack requires
> and no more or no less than that. To accomplish this objective within
> MUSE without totally re-implementing it might be a problem.
>
>
>
> Cheers
> Serge
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Sanjiva Weerawarana [mailto:sanjiva@opensource.lk]
> Sent: Friday, November 07, 2008 10:45 PM
> To: general@incubator.apache.org
> Cc: Mankovskii, Serge; savan-dev@ws.apache.org;
> dev@servicemix.apache.org; axis-dev@ws.apache.org
> Subject: Re: POLOKA proposal in context of existing Apache projects
>
> Deepal, that's cart before the horse .. this project needs to get to
> graduation first :).
>
> Serge, are you asking for the WS PMC to sponsor this project for
> incubation?
>
> If so, how does this relate to the WS-Notification impl we already
have
> on
> top of Axis2? (Muse?) Having one by no means does not mean there can't
> be
> another; just trying to understand the relationship.
>
> Is there code already developed that you're looking to contribute to
the
>
> ASF? Or are you proposing to write new code?? The first line of the
> proposal starts with "Poloka will be a standalone reference
> implementation
> ..". Later text suggests there's working code, but if there is no
> working
> code the right model is to join the existing community and build on
that
>
> codebase.
>
> What does "reference implementation" mean?
>
> [Hi Peter (Niblett)! Long time :) ..]
>
> Sanjiva.
>
> Deepal jayasinghe wrote:
>> I think we can keep this as the same level as Sandesha and Ramparrt.
I
>> mean we do not have any modules other than core stuff under Axis2.
>>
>> Deepal
>>> Serge,
>>>
>>> Unfortunately i won't be able to help much at this time due to time
>>> pressures. Hopefully one of my fellow PMC members may be interested
> in
>>> moving this forward. Best Wishes.
>>>
>>> thanks,
>>> dims
>>>
>>> On Fri, Nov 7, 2008 at 3:54 PM, Mankovskii, Serge
>>> <Se...@ca.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi Davanum,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> In our search for a Champion and Sponsor for the Poloka proposal
>>>> http://wiki.apache.org/incubator/PolokaProposal We looked into the
> Savan,
>>>> ServiceMix, Axis2, and MUSE projects.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> We find that it makes most sense, so far, to have Poloka as a
> project under
>>>> Axis2. It also makes sense to go into the ServiceMix, that
> implements
>>>> WS-Notification already, but objectives of ServiceMix and POLOKA
are
>>>> somewhat different in respect to POLOKA goal to provide a
> stand-alone
>>>> reference implementation of the spec. Bringing entire ServiceMix in
> the
>>>> picture might be too much. However ServiceMix could benefit from
the
> POLOKA
>>>> work in the future.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Poloka (http://poloka.org) could create an Axis2 module
implementing
>>>> handlers creating a messaging network for a federation of Axis2
> servers.
>>>> This way we would be able to support
>>>>
>>>> - Standalone WS-Notification compliant notification producer
> and
>>>> notification consumer
>>>>
>>>> - Standalone WS-BrokeredNotification broker
>>>>
>>>> - Federation of WS-BrokeredNotification brokers.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> It would make sense to integrate Savan functionality within Poloka
> as time
>>>> goes but not other way around. I think so because Poloka objective
> is
>>>> broader than Savan objective in respect to:
>>>>
>>>> - Broker support
>>>>
>>>> Broker support is defined in WS-Notification and not in
WS-Eventing.
>>>> Although it is possible that once a broker with WS-Eventing
> interface is
>>>> created, the picture might change.
>>>>
>>>> - Subscription
>>>>
>>>> WS-Eventing defines subscription language based on XPath
> (content-based
>>>> semantic). WS-Notification defines subscription Filers using Topic
> Dialects
>>>> (topic-based semantic), XPath over message content (content-based
> semantic,
>>>> same as in WS-Eventing), and resource properties (optional and
> unclear
>>>> semantics, needs refinement in the spec).
>>>>
>>>> - Matching performance
>>>>
>>>> It seems that we can improve performance of XPath matching based on
> the
>>>> research done by the PADRES
> http://research.msrg.utoronto.ca/pub/Padres
>>>> project. It would be equally applicable to WS-Notification and
> WS-Eventing.
>>>> Naweed Tajuddin, a Master student of Prof. Arno Jacobsen, is
looking
>>>> specifically into this issue for his master thesis.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> What do you think?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> We are looking for the input and guidance of the Apache community
in
> moving
>>>> the POLOKA proposal forward. Please help!
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Regards
>>>>
>>>> Serge
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>
--
Sanjiva Weerawarana, Ph.D.
Founder & Director; Lanka Software Foundation; http://www.opensource.lk/
Founder, Chairman & CEO; WSO2, Inc.; http://www.wso2.com/
Member; Apache Software Foundation; http://www.apache.org/
Visiting Lecturer; University of Moratuwa; http://www.cse.mrt.ac.lk/
Blog: http://sanjiva.weerawarana.org/
RE: POLOKA proposal in context of existing Apache projects
Posted by "Mankovskii, Serge" <Se...@ca.com>.
Hello Sanjiva
Following your suggestion I have sent a request to champion the POLOKA
project to private@ws.apache.org and pmc@incubator.apache.org
I am not sure what the next step will be because, obviously, I cannot
subscribe to the private lists.
Cheers
Serge
-----Original Message-----
From: Sanjiva Weerawarana [mailto:sanjiva@opensource.lk]
Sent: Saturday, November 08, 2008 4:56 PM
To: Mankovskii, Serge
Cc: general@incubator.apache.org; savan-dev@ws.apache.org;
dev@servicemix.apache.org; axis-dev@ws.apache.org
Subject: Re: POLOKA proposal in context of existing Apache projects
Hi Serge,
Sorry to not have recognized the name .. small world eh? :-).
OK now I understand the project - I've been long advocating universities
to participate in open source as I see universities as our research
division! That's the way we can beat any corporate research division
;-).
I'm happy to mentor it and champion it. However, let me try to find
another champion though just because of practical time issues ..
In terms of sponsor- if you want the WS PMC to sponsor it then you need
to
make the request to private@ws.apache.org. Alternatively, we can ask the
Incubator PMC to sponsor it .. IMO that's easier and that sort of gives
you more flexibility in deciding your final ASF home upon graduation.
Sanjiva.
Mankovskii, Serge wrote:
> Hi Sanjiva,
>
> It is great to hear from you! I think we've met during EDCIS 2002 in
> Beijing. Arno Jacobsen was there too. It looks like you know Peter
> Niblett for a while as well!
>
> It looks like at the movement that we are not able to secure a member
of
> Apache that would Champion and Sponsor us. I think we need to ask PMC
to
> do that. Can you help us there?
>
> Yes, there is code, and a lot of it. But the code is focused on the
> pub/sub matching, messaging, and federation. It does not use any of WS
> stack at the moment and it does not follow any standards. We are going
> to release this code and then work it into the standards stack. It
will
> bring results of six year research into the open source in a way that
> everybody would be able to use it.
>
> Reference Implementation means that within the project there will be
it
> will be a distribution that would contain all that WS-N stack requires
> and no more or no less than that. To accomplish this objective within
> MUSE without totally re-implementing it might be a problem.
>
>
>
> Cheers
> Serge
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Sanjiva Weerawarana [mailto:sanjiva@opensource.lk]
> Sent: Friday, November 07, 2008 10:45 PM
> To: general@incubator.apache.org
> Cc: Mankovskii, Serge; savan-dev@ws.apache.org;
> dev@servicemix.apache.org; axis-dev@ws.apache.org
> Subject: Re: POLOKA proposal in context of existing Apache projects
>
> Deepal, that's cart before the horse .. this project needs to get to
> graduation first :).
>
> Serge, are you asking for the WS PMC to sponsor this project for
> incubation?
>
> If so, how does this relate to the WS-Notification impl we already
have
> on
> top of Axis2? (Muse?) Having one by no means does not mean there can't
> be
> another; just trying to understand the relationship.
>
> Is there code already developed that you're looking to contribute to
the
>
> ASF? Or are you proposing to write new code?? The first line of the
> proposal starts with "Poloka will be a standalone reference
> implementation
> ..". Later text suggests there's working code, but if there is no
> working
> code the right model is to join the existing community and build on
that
>
> codebase.
>
> What does "reference implementation" mean?
>
> [Hi Peter (Niblett)! Long time :) ..]
>
> Sanjiva.
>
> Deepal jayasinghe wrote:
>> I think we can keep this as the same level as Sandesha and Ramparrt.
I
>> mean we do not have any modules other than core stuff under Axis2.
>>
>> Deepal
>>> Serge,
>>>
>>> Unfortunately i won't be able to help much at this time due to time
>>> pressures. Hopefully one of my fellow PMC members may be interested
> in
>>> moving this forward. Best Wishes.
>>>
>>> thanks,
>>> dims
>>>
>>> On Fri, Nov 7, 2008 at 3:54 PM, Mankovskii, Serge
>>> <Se...@ca.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi Davanum,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> In our search for a Champion and Sponsor for the Poloka proposal
>>>> http://wiki.apache.org/incubator/PolokaProposal We looked into the
> Savan,
>>>> ServiceMix, Axis2, and MUSE projects.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> We find that it makes most sense, so far, to have Poloka as a
> project under
>>>> Axis2. It also makes sense to go into the ServiceMix, that
> implements
>>>> WS-Notification already, but objectives of ServiceMix and POLOKA
are
>>>> somewhat different in respect to POLOKA goal to provide a
> stand-alone
>>>> reference implementation of the spec. Bringing entire ServiceMix in
> the
>>>> picture might be too much. However ServiceMix could benefit from
the
> POLOKA
>>>> work in the future.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Poloka (http://poloka.org) could create an Axis2 module
implementing
>>>> handlers creating a messaging network for a federation of Axis2
> servers.
>>>> This way we would be able to support
>>>>
>>>> - Standalone WS-Notification compliant notification producer
> and
>>>> notification consumer
>>>>
>>>> - Standalone WS-BrokeredNotification broker
>>>>
>>>> - Federation of WS-BrokeredNotification brokers.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> It would make sense to integrate Savan functionality within Poloka
> as time
>>>> goes but not other way around. I think so because Poloka objective
> is
>>>> broader than Savan objective in respect to:
>>>>
>>>> - Broker support
>>>>
>>>> Broker support is defined in WS-Notification and not in
WS-Eventing.
>>>> Although it is possible that once a broker with WS-Eventing
> interface is
>>>> created, the picture might change.
>>>>
>>>> - Subscription
>>>>
>>>> WS-Eventing defines subscription language based on XPath
> (content-based
>>>> semantic). WS-Notification defines subscription Filers using Topic
> Dialects
>>>> (topic-based semantic), XPath over message content (content-based
> semantic,
>>>> same as in WS-Eventing), and resource properties (optional and
> unclear
>>>> semantics, needs refinement in the spec).
>>>>
>>>> - Matching performance
>>>>
>>>> It seems that we can improve performance of XPath matching based on
> the
>>>> research done by the PADRES
> http://research.msrg.utoronto.ca/pub/Padres
>>>> project. It would be equally applicable to WS-Notification and
> WS-Eventing.
>>>> Naweed Tajuddin, a Master student of Prof. Arno Jacobsen, is
looking
>>>> specifically into this issue for his master thesis.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> What do you think?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> We are looking for the input and guidance of the Apache community
in
> moving
>>>> the POLOKA proposal forward. Please help!
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Regards
>>>>
>>>> Serge
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>
--
Sanjiva Weerawarana, Ph.D.
Founder & Director; Lanka Software Foundation; http://www.opensource.lk/
Founder, Chairman & CEO; WSO2, Inc.; http://www.wso2.com/
Member; Apache Software Foundation; http://www.apache.org/
Visiting Lecturer; University of Moratuwa; http://www.cse.mrt.ac.lk/
Blog: http://sanjiva.weerawarana.org/
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RE: POLOKA proposal in context of existing Apache projects
Posted by "Mankovskii, Serge" <Se...@ca.com>.
Hello Sanjiva
Following your suggestion I have sent a request to champion the POLOKA
project to private@ws.apache.org and pmc@incubator.apache.org
I am not sure what the next step will be because, obviously, I cannot
subscribe to the private lists.
Cheers
Serge
-----Original Message-----
From: Sanjiva Weerawarana [mailto:sanjiva@opensource.lk]
Sent: Saturday, November 08, 2008 4:56 PM
To: Mankovskii, Serge
Cc: general@incubator.apache.org; savan-dev@ws.apache.org;
dev@servicemix.apache.org; axis-dev@ws.apache.org
Subject: Re: POLOKA proposal in context of existing Apache projects
Hi Serge,
Sorry to not have recognized the name .. small world eh? :-).
OK now I understand the project - I've been long advocating universities
to participate in open source as I see universities as our research
division! That's the way we can beat any corporate research division
;-).
I'm happy to mentor it and champion it. However, let me try to find
another champion though just because of practical time issues ..
In terms of sponsor- if you want the WS PMC to sponsor it then you need
to
make the request to private@ws.apache.org. Alternatively, we can ask the
Incubator PMC to sponsor it .. IMO that's easier and that sort of gives
you more flexibility in deciding your final ASF home upon graduation.
Sanjiva.
Mankovskii, Serge wrote:
> Hi Sanjiva,
>
> It is great to hear from you! I think we've met during EDCIS 2002 in
> Beijing. Arno Jacobsen was there too. It looks like you know Peter
> Niblett for a while as well!
>
> It looks like at the movement that we are not able to secure a member
of
> Apache that would Champion and Sponsor us. I think we need to ask PMC
to
> do that. Can you help us there?
>
> Yes, there is code, and a lot of it. But the code is focused on the
> pub/sub matching, messaging, and federation. It does not use any of WS
> stack at the moment and it does not follow any standards. We are going
> to release this code and then work it into the standards stack. It
will
> bring results of six year research into the open source in a way that
> everybody would be able to use it.
>
> Reference Implementation means that within the project there will be
it
> will be a distribution that would contain all that WS-N stack requires
> and no more or no less than that. To accomplish this objective within
> MUSE without totally re-implementing it might be a problem.
>
>
>
> Cheers
> Serge
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Sanjiva Weerawarana [mailto:sanjiva@opensource.lk]
> Sent: Friday, November 07, 2008 10:45 PM
> To: general@incubator.apache.org
> Cc: Mankovskii, Serge; savan-dev@ws.apache.org;
> dev@servicemix.apache.org; axis-dev@ws.apache.org
> Subject: Re: POLOKA proposal in context of existing Apache projects
>
> Deepal, that's cart before the horse .. this project needs to get to
> graduation first :).
>
> Serge, are you asking for the WS PMC to sponsor this project for
> incubation?
>
> If so, how does this relate to the WS-Notification impl we already
have
> on
> top of Axis2? (Muse?) Having one by no means does not mean there can't
> be
> another; just trying to understand the relationship.
>
> Is there code already developed that you're looking to contribute to
the
>
> ASF? Or are you proposing to write new code?? The first line of the
> proposal starts with "Poloka will be a standalone reference
> implementation
> ..". Later text suggests there's working code, but if there is no
> working
> code the right model is to join the existing community and build on
that
>
> codebase.
>
> What does "reference implementation" mean?
>
> [Hi Peter (Niblett)! Long time :) ..]
>
> Sanjiva.
>
> Deepal jayasinghe wrote:
>> I think we can keep this as the same level as Sandesha and Ramparrt.
I
>> mean we do not have any modules other than core stuff under Axis2.
>>
>> Deepal
>>> Serge,
>>>
>>> Unfortunately i won't be able to help much at this time due to time
>>> pressures. Hopefully one of my fellow PMC members may be interested
> in
>>> moving this forward. Best Wishes.
>>>
>>> thanks,
>>> dims
>>>
>>> On Fri, Nov 7, 2008 at 3:54 PM, Mankovskii, Serge
>>> <Se...@ca.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi Davanum,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> In our search for a Champion and Sponsor for the Poloka proposal
>>>> http://wiki.apache.org/incubator/PolokaProposal We looked into the
> Savan,
>>>> ServiceMix, Axis2, and MUSE projects.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> We find that it makes most sense, so far, to have Poloka as a
> project under
>>>> Axis2. It also makes sense to go into the ServiceMix, that
> implements
>>>> WS-Notification already, but objectives of ServiceMix and POLOKA
are
>>>> somewhat different in respect to POLOKA goal to provide a
> stand-alone
>>>> reference implementation of the spec. Bringing entire ServiceMix in
> the
>>>> picture might be too much. However ServiceMix could benefit from
the
> POLOKA
>>>> work in the future.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Poloka (http://poloka.org) could create an Axis2 module
implementing
>>>> handlers creating a messaging network for a federation of Axis2
> servers.
>>>> This way we would be able to support
>>>>
>>>> - Standalone WS-Notification compliant notification producer
> and
>>>> notification consumer
>>>>
>>>> - Standalone WS-BrokeredNotification broker
>>>>
>>>> - Federation of WS-BrokeredNotification brokers.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> It would make sense to integrate Savan functionality within Poloka
> as time
>>>> goes but not other way around. I think so because Poloka objective
> is
>>>> broader than Savan objective in respect to:
>>>>
>>>> - Broker support
>>>>
>>>> Broker support is defined in WS-Notification and not in
WS-Eventing.
>>>> Although it is possible that once a broker with WS-Eventing
> interface is
>>>> created, the picture might change.
>>>>
>>>> - Subscription
>>>>
>>>> WS-Eventing defines subscription language based on XPath
> (content-based
>>>> semantic). WS-Notification defines subscription Filers using Topic
> Dialects
>>>> (topic-based semantic), XPath over message content (content-based
> semantic,
>>>> same as in WS-Eventing), and resource properties (optional and
> unclear
>>>> semantics, needs refinement in the spec).
>>>>
>>>> - Matching performance
>>>>
>>>> It seems that we can improve performance of XPath matching based on
> the
>>>> research done by the PADRES
> http://research.msrg.utoronto.ca/pub/Padres
>>>> project. It would be equally applicable to WS-Notification and
> WS-Eventing.
>>>> Naweed Tajuddin, a Master student of Prof. Arno Jacobsen, is
looking
>>>> specifically into this issue for his master thesis.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> What do you think?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> We are looking for the input and guidance of the Apache community
in
> moving
>>>> the POLOKA proposal forward. Please help!
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Regards
>>>>
>>>> Serge
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>
--
Sanjiva Weerawarana, Ph.D.
Founder & Director; Lanka Software Foundation; http://www.opensource.lk/
Founder, Chairman & CEO; WSO2, Inc.; http://www.wso2.com/
Member; Apache Software Foundation; http://www.apache.org/
Visiting Lecturer; University of Moratuwa; http://www.cse.mrt.ac.lk/
Blog: http://sanjiva.weerawarana.org/
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RE: POLOKA proposal in context of existing Apache projects
Posted by "Mankovskii, Serge" <Se...@ca.com>.
Hi Sanjiva,
I think there is a lot of synergy between open source community and
university community. It is an interesting discussion to have. I am
talking to Ontario agencies responsible for innovation in the province
on that. We are thinking about a framework that would help to foster
university/open source connection and help it grow.
Thank you fro the offer to mentor the project. In respect to a Champion,
I will follow in both directions. I will post the request in the
private@ws.apache.org and also will try to request Incubator PMC to
Champion the project. I am not sure how to request the PMC though.
Cheers
Serge
-----Original Message-----
From: Sanjiva Weerawarana [mailto:sanjiva@opensource.lk]
Sent: Saturday, November 08, 2008 4:56 PM
To: Mankovskii, Serge
Cc: general@incubator.apache.org; savan-dev@ws.apache.org;
dev@servicemix.apache.org; axis-dev@ws.apache.org
Subject: Re: POLOKA proposal in context of existing Apache projects
Hi Serge,
Sorry to not have recognized the name .. small world eh? :-).
OK now I understand the project - I've been long advocating universities
to participate in open source as I see universities as our research
division! That's the way we can beat any corporate research division
;-).
I'm happy to mentor it and champion it. However, let me try to find
another champion though just because of practical time issues ..
In terms of sponsor- if you want the WS PMC to sponsor it then you need
to
make the request to private@ws.apache.org. Alternatively, we can ask the
Incubator PMC to sponsor it .. IMO that's easier and that sort of gives
you more flexibility in deciding your final ASF home upon graduation.
Sanjiva.
Mankovskii, Serge wrote:
> Hi Sanjiva,
>
> It is great to hear from you! I think we've met during EDCIS 2002 in
> Beijing. Arno Jacobsen was there too. It looks like you know Peter
> Niblett for a while as well!
>
> It looks like at the movement that we are not able to secure a member
of
> Apache that would Champion and Sponsor us. I think we need to ask PMC
to
> do that. Can you help us there?
>
> Yes, there is code, and a lot of it. But the code is focused on the
> pub/sub matching, messaging, and federation. It does not use any of WS
> stack at the moment and it does not follow any standards. We are going
> to release this code and then work it into the standards stack. It
will
> bring results of six year research into the open source in a way that
> everybody would be able to use it.
>
> Reference Implementation means that within the project there will be
it
> will be a distribution that would contain all that WS-N stack requires
> and no more or no less than that. To accomplish this objective within
> MUSE without totally re-implementing it might be a problem.
>
>
>
> Cheers
> Serge
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Sanjiva Weerawarana [mailto:sanjiva@opensource.lk]
> Sent: Friday, November 07, 2008 10:45 PM
> To: general@incubator.apache.org
> Cc: Mankovskii, Serge; savan-dev@ws.apache.org;
> dev@servicemix.apache.org; axis-dev@ws.apache.org
> Subject: Re: POLOKA proposal in context of existing Apache projects
>
> Deepal, that's cart before the horse .. this project needs to get to
> graduation first :).
>
> Serge, are you asking for the WS PMC to sponsor this project for
> incubation?
>
> If so, how does this relate to the WS-Notification impl we already
have
> on
> top of Axis2? (Muse?) Having one by no means does not mean there can't
> be
> another; just trying to understand the relationship.
>
> Is there code already developed that you're looking to contribute to
the
>
> ASF? Or are you proposing to write new code?? The first line of the
> proposal starts with "Poloka will be a standalone reference
> implementation
> ..". Later text suggests there's working code, but if there is no
> working
> code the right model is to join the existing community and build on
that
>
> codebase.
>
> What does "reference implementation" mean?
>
> [Hi Peter (Niblett)! Long time :) ..]
>
> Sanjiva.
>
> Deepal jayasinghe wrote:
>> I think we can keep this as the same level as Sandesha and Ramparrt.
I
>> mean we do not have any modules other than core stuff under Axis2.
>>
>> Deepal
>>> Serge,
>>>
>>> Unfortunately i won't be able to help much at this time due to time
>>> pressures. Hopefully one of my fellow PMC members may be interested
> in
>>> moving this forward. Best Wishes.
>>>
>>> thanks,
>>> dims
>>>
>>> On Fri, Nov 7, 2008 at 3:54 PM, Mankovskii, Serge
>>> <Se...@ca.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi Davanum,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> In our search for a Champion and Sponsor for the Poloka proposal
>>>> http://wiki.apache.org/incubator/PolokaProposal We looked into the
> Savan,
>>>> ServiceMix, Axis2, and MUSE projects.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> We find that it makes most sense, so far, to have Poloka as a
> project under
>>>> Axis2. It also makes sense to go into the ServiceMix, that
> implements
>>>> WS-Notification already, but objectives of ServiceMix and POLOKA
are
>>>> somewhat different in respect to POLOKA goal to provide a
> stand-alone
>>>> reference implementation of the spec. Bringing entire ServiceMix in
> the
>>>> picture might be too much. However ServiceMix could benefit from
the
> POLOKA
>>>> work in the future.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Poloka (http://poloka.org) could create an Axis2 module
implementing
>>>> handlers creating a messaging network for a federation of Axis2
> servers.
>>>> This way we would be able to support
>>>>
>>>> - Standalone WS-Notification compliant notification producer
> and
>>>> notification consumer
>>>>
>>>> - Standalone WS-BrokeredNotification broker
>>>>
>>>> - Federation of WS-BrokeredNotification brokers.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> It would make sense to integrate Savan functionality within Poloka
> as time
>>>> goes but not other way around. I think so because Poloka objective
> is
>>>> broader than Savan objective in respect to:
>>>>
>>>> - Broker support
>>>>
>>>> Broker support is defined in WS-Notification and not in
WS-Eventing.
>>>> Although it is possible that once a broker with WS-Eventing
> interface is
>>>> created, the picture might change.
>>>>
>>>> - Subscription
>>>>
>>>> WS-Eventing defines subscription language based on XPath
> (content-based
>>>> semantic). WS-Notification defines subscription Filers using Topic
> Dialects
>>>> (topic-based semantic), XPath over message content (content-based
> semantic,
>>>> same as in WS-Eventing), and resource properties (optional and
> unclear
>>>> semantics, needs refinement in the spec).
>>>>
>>>> - Matching performance
>>>>
>>>> It seems that we can improve performance of XPath matching based on
> the
>>>> research done by the PADRES
> http://research.msrg.utoronto.ca/pub/Padres
>>>> project. It would be equally applicable to WS-Notification and
> WS-Eventing.
>>>> Naweed Tajuddin, a Master student of Prof. Arno Jacobsen, is
looking
>>>> specifically into this issue for his master thesis.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> What do you think?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> We are looking for the input and guidance of the Apache community
in
> moving
>>>> the POLOKA proposal forward. Please help!
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Regards
>>>>
>>>> Serge
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>
--
Sanjiva Weerawarana, Ph.D.
Founder & Director; Lanka Software Foundation; http://www.opensource.lk/
Founder, Chairman & CEO; WSO2, Inc.; http://www.wso2.com/
Member; Apache Software Foundation; http://www.apache.org/
Visiting Lecturer; University of Moratuwa; http://www.cse.mrt.ac.lk/
Blog: http://sanjiva.weerawarana.org/
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
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RE: POLOKA proposal in context of existing Apache projects
Posted by "Mankovskii, Serge" <Se...@ca.com>.
Hi Sanjiva,
I think there is a lot of synergy between open source community and
university community. It is an interesting discussion to have. I am
talking to Ontario agencies responsible for innovation in the province
on that. We are thinking about a framework that would help to foster
university/open source connection and help it grow.
Thank you fro the offer to mentor the project. In respect to a Champion,
I will follow in both directions. I will post the request in the
private@ws.apache.org and also will try to request Incubator PMC to
Champion the project. I am not sure how to request the PMC though.
Cheers
Serge
-----Original Message-----
From: Sanjiva Weerawarana [mailto:sanjiva@opensource.lk]
Sent: Saturday, November 08, 2008 4:56 PM
To: Mankovskii, Serge
Cc: general@incubator.apache.org; savan-dev@ws.apache.org;
dev@servicemix.apache.org; axis-dev@ws.apache.org
Subject: Re: POLOKA proposal in context of existing Apache projects
Hi Serge,
Sorry to not have recognized the name .. small world eh? :-).
OK now I understand the project - I've been long advocating universities
to participate in open source as I see universities as our research
division! That's the way we can beat any corporate research division
;-).
I'm happy to mentor it and champion it. However, let me try to find
another champion though just because of practical time issues ..
In terms of sponsor- if you want the WS PMC to sponsor it then you need
to
make the request to private@ws.apache.org. Alternatively, we can ask the
Incubator PMC to sponsor it .. IMO that's easier and that sort of gives
you more flexibility in deciding your final ASF home upon graduation.
Sanjiva.
Mankovskii, Serge wrote:
> Hi Sanjiva,
>
> It is great to hear from you! I think we've met during EDCIS 2002 in
> Beijing. Arno Jacobsen was there too. It looks like you know Peter
> Niblett for a while as well!
>
> It looks like at the movement that we are not able to secure a member
of
> Apache that would Champion and Sponsor us. I think we need to ask PMC
to
> do that. Can you help us there?
>
> Yes, there is code, and a lot of it. But the code is focused on the
> pub/sub matching, messaging, and federation. It does not use any of WS
> stack at the moment and it does not follow any standards. We are going
> to release this code and then work it into the standards stack. It
will
> bring results of six year research into the open source in a way that
> everybody would be able to use it.
>
> Reference Implementation means that within the project there will be
it
> will be a distribution that would contain all that WS-N stack requires
> and no more or no less than that. To accomplish this objective within
> MUSE without totally re-implementing it might be a problem.
>
>
>
> Cheers
> Serge
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Sanjiva Weerawarana [mailto:sanjiva@opensource.lk]
> Sent: Friday, November 07, 2008 10:45 PM
> To: general@incubator.apache.org
> Cc: Mankovskii, Serge; savan-dev@ws.apache.org;
> dev@servicemix.apache.org; axis-dev@ws.apache.org
> Subject: Re: POLOKA proposal in context of existing Apache projects
>
> Deepal, that's cart before the horse .. this project needs to get to
> graduation first :).
>
> Serge, are you asking for the WS PMC to sponsor this project for
> incubation?
>
> If so, how does this relate to the WS-Notification impl we already
have
> on
> top of Axis2? (Muse?) Having one by no means does not mean there can't
> be
> another; just trying to understand the relationship.
>
> Is there code already developed that you're looking to contribute to
the
>
> ASF? Or are you proposing to write new code?? The first line of the
> proposal starts with "Poloka will be a standalone reference
> implementation
> ..". Later text suggests there's working code, but if there is no
> working
> code the right model is to join the existing community and build on
that
>
> codebase.
>
> What does "reference implementation" mean?
>
> [Hi Peter (Niblett)! Long time :) ..]
>
> Sanjiva.
>
> Deepal jayasinghe wrote:
>> I think we can keep this as the same level as Sandesha and Ramparrt.
I
>> mean we do not have any modules other than core stuff under Axis2.
>>
>> Deepal
>>> Serge,
>>>
>>> Unfortunately i won't be able to help much at this time due to time
>>> pressures. Hopefully one of my fellow PMC members may be interested
> in
>>> moving this forward. Best Wishes.
>>>
>>> thanks,
>>> dims
>>>
>>> On Fri, Nov 7, 2008 at 3:54 PM, Mankovskii, Serge
>>> <Se...@ca.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi Davanum,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> In our search for a Champion and Sponsor for the Poloka proposal
>>>> http://wiki.apache.org/incubator/PolokaProposal We looked into the
> Savan,
>>>> ServiceMix, Axis2, and MUSE projects.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> We find that it makes most sense, so far, to have Poloka as a
> project under
>>>> Axis2. It also makes sense to go into the ServiceMix, that
> implements
>>>> WS-Notification already, but objectives of ServiceMix and POLOKA
are
>>>> somewhat different in respect to POLOKA goal to provide a
> stand-alone
>>>> reference implementation of the spec. Bringing entire ServiceMix in
> the
>>>> picture might be too much. However ServiceMix could benefit from
the
> POLOKA
>>>> work in the future.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Poloka (http://poloka.org) could create an Axis2 module
implementing
>>>> handlers creating a messaging network for a federation of Axis2
> servers.
>>>> This way we would be able to support
>>>>
>>>> - Standalone WS-Notification compliant notification producer
> and
>>>> notification consumer
>>>>
>>>> - Standalone WS-BrokeredNotification broker
>>>>
>>>> - Federation of WS-BrokeredNotification brokers.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> It would make sense to integrate Savan functionality within Poloka
> as time
>>>> goes but not other way around. I think so because Poloka objective
> is
>>>> broader than Savan objective in respect to:
>>>>
>>>> - Broker support
>>>>
>>>> Broker support is defined in WS-Notification and not in
WS-Eventing.
>>>> Although it is possible that once a broker with WS-Eventing
> interface is
>>>> created, the picture might change.
>>>>
>>>> - Subscription
>>>>
>>>> WS-Eventing defines subscription language based on XPath
> (content-based
>>>> semantic). WS-Notification defines subscription Filers using Topic
> Dialects
>>>> (topic-based semantic), XPath over message content (content-based
> semantic,
>>>> same as in WS-Eventing), and resource properties (optional and
> unclear
>>>> semantics, needs refinement in the spec).
>>>>
>>>> - Matching performance
>>>>
>>>> It seems that we can improve performance of XPath matching based on
> the
>>>> research done by the PADRES
> http://research.msrg.utoronto.ca/pub/Padres
>>>> project. It would be equally applicable to WS-Notification and
> WS-Eventing.
>>>> Naweed Tajuddin, a Master student of Prof. Arno Jacobsen, is
looking
>>>> specifically into this issue for his master thesis.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> What do you think?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> We are looking for the input and guidance of the Apache community
in
> moving
>>>> the POLOKA proposal forward. Please help!
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Regards
>>>>
>>>> Serge
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>
--
Sanjiva Weerawarana, Ph.D.
Founder & Director; Lanka Software Foundation; http://www.opensource.lk/
Founder, Chairman & CEO; WSO2, Inc.; http://www.wso2.com/
Member; Apache Software Foundation; http://www.apache.org/
Visiting Lecturer; University of Moratuwa; http://www.cse.mrt.ac.lk/
Blog: http://sanjiva.weerawarana.org/
Re: POLOKA proposal in context of existing Apache projects
Posted by Sanjiva Weerawarana <sa...@opensource.lk>.
Hi Serge,
Sorry to not have recognized the name .. small world eh? :-).
OK now I understand the project - I've been long advocating universities
to participate in open source as I see universities as our research
division! That's the way we can beat any corporate research division ;-).
I'm happy to mentor it and champion it. However, let me try to find
another champion though just because of practical time issues ..
In terms of sponsor- if you want the WS PMC to sponsor it then you need to
make the request to private@ws.apache.org. Alternatively, we can ask the
Incubator PMC to sponsor it .. IMO that's easier and that sort of gives
you more flexibility in deciding your final ASF home upon graduation.
Sanjiva.
Mankovskii, Serge wrote:
> Hi Sanjiva,
>
> It is great to hear from you! I think we've met during EDCIS 2002 in
> Beijing. Arno Jacobsen was there too. It looks like you know Peter
> Niblett for a while as well!
>
> It looks like at the movement that we are not able to secure a member of
> Apache that would Champion and Sponsor us. I think we need to ask PMC to
> do that. Can you help us there?
>
> Yes, there is code, and a lot of it. But the code is focused on the
> pub/sub matching, messaging, and federation. It does not use any of WS
> stack at the moment and it does not follow any standards. We are going
> to release this code and then work it into the standards stack. It will
> bring results of six year research into the open source in a way that
> everybody would be able to use it.
>
> Reference Implementation means that within the project there will be it
> will be a distribution that would contain all that WS-N stack requires
> and no more or no less than that. To accomplish this objective within
> MUSE without totally re-implementing it might be a problem.
>
>
>
> Cheers
> Serge
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Sanjiva Weerawarana [mailto:sanjiva@opensource.lk]
> Sent: Friday, November 07, 2008 10:45 PM
> To: general@incubator.apache.org
> Cc: Mankovskii, Serge; savan-dev@ws.apache.org;
> dev@servicemix.apache.org; axis-dev@ws.apache.org
> Subject: Re: POLOKA proposal in context of existing Apache projects
>
> Deepal, that's cart before the horse .. this project needs to get to
> graduation first :).
>
> Serge, are you asking for the WS PMC to sponsor this project for
> incubation?
>
> If so, how does this relate to the WS-Notification impl we already have
> on
> top of Axis2? (Muse?) Having one by no means does not mean there can't
> be
> another; just trying to understand the relationship.
>
> Is there code already developed that you're looking to contribute to the
>
> ASF? Or are you proposing to write new code?? The first line of the
> proposal starts with "Poloka will be a standalone reference
> implementation
> ..". Later text suggests there's working code, but if there is no
> working
> code the right model is to join the existing community and build on that
>
> codebase.
>
> What does "reference implementation" mean?
>
> [Hi Peter (Niblett)! Long time :) ..]
>
> Sanjiva.
>
> Deepal jayasinghe wrote:
>> I think we can keep this as the same level as Sandesha and Ramparrt. I
>> mean we do not have any modules other than core stuff under Axis2.
>>
>> Deepal
>>> Serge,
>>>
>>> Unfortunately i won't be able to help much at this time due to time
>>> pressures. Hopefully one of my fellow PMC members may be interested
> in
>>> moving this forward. Best Wishes.
>>>
>>> thanks,
>>> dims
>>>
>>> On Fri, Nov 7, 2008 at 3:54 PM, Mankovskii, Serge
>>> <Se...@ca.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi Davanum,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> In our search for a Champion and Sponsor for the Poloka proposal
>>>> http://wiki.apache.org/incubator/PolokaProposal We looked into the
> Savan,
>>>> ServiceMix, Axis2, and MUSE projects.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> We find that it makes most sense, so far, to have Poloka as a
> project under
>>>> Axis2. It also makes sense to go into the ServiceMix, that
> implements
>>>> WS-Notification already, but objectives of ServiceMix and POLOKA are
>>>> somewhat different in respect to POLOKA goal to provide a
> stand-alone
>>>> reference implementation of the spec. Bringing entire ServiceMix in
> the
>>>> picture might be too much. However ServiceMix could benefit from the
> POLOKA
>>>> work in the future.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Poloka (http://poloka.org) could create an Axis2 module implementing
>>>> handlers creating a messaging network for a federation of Axis2
> servers.
>>>> This way we would be able to support
>>>>
>>>> - Standalone WS-Notification compliant notification producer
> and
>>>> notification consumer
>>>>
>>>> - Standalone WS-BrokeredNotification broker
>>>>
>>>> - Federation of WS-BrokeredNotification brokers.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> It would make sense to integrate Savan functionality within Poloka
> as time
>>>> goes but not other way around. I think so because Poloka objective
> is
>>>> broader than Savan objective in respect to:
>>>>
>>>> - Broker support
>>>>
>>>> Broker support is defined in WS-Notification and not in WS-Eventing.
>>>> Although it is possible that once a broker with WS-Eventing
> interface is
>>>> created, the picture might change.
>>>>
>>>> - Subscription
>>>>
>>>> WS-Eventing defines subscription language based on XPath
> (content-based
>>>> semantic). WS-Notification defines subscription Filers using Topic
> Dialects
>>>> (topic-based semantic), XPath over message content (content-based
> semantic,
>>>> same as in WS-Eventing), and resource properties (optional and
> unclear
>>>> semantics, needs refinement in the spec).
>>>>
>>>> - Matching performance
>>>>
>>>> It seems that we can improve performance of XPath matching based on
> the
>>>> research done by the PADRES
> http://research.msrg.utoronto.ca/pub/Padres
>>>> project. It would be equally applicable to WS-Notification and
> WS-Eventing.
>>>> Naweed Tajuddin, a Master student of Prof. Arno Jacobsen, is looking
>>>> specifically into this issue for his master thesis.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> What do you think?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> We are looking for the input and guidance of the Apache community in
> moving
>>>> the POLOKA proposal forward. Please help!
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Regards
>>>>
>>>> Serge
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>
--
Sanjiva Weerawarana, Ph.D.
Founder & Director; Lanka Software Foundation; http://www.opensource.lk/
Founder, Chairman & CEO; WSO2, Inc.; http://www.wso2.com/
Member; Apache Software Foundation; http://www.apache.org/
Visiting Lecturer; University of Moratuwa; http://www.cse.mrt.ac.lk/
Blog: http://sanjiva.weerawarana.org/
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Re: POLOKA proposal in context of existing Apache projects
Posted by Sanjiva Weerawarana <sa...@opensource.lk>.
Hi Serge,
Sorry to not have recognized the name .. small world eh? :-).
OK now I understand the project - I've been long advocating universities
to participate in open source as I see universities as our research
division! That's the way we can beat any corporate research division ;-).
I'm happy to mentor it and champion it. However, let me try to find
another champion though just because of practical time issues ..
In terms of sponsor- if you want the WS PMC to sponsor it then you need to
make the request to private@ws.apache.org. Alternatively, we can ask the
Incubator PMC to sponsor it .. IMO that's easier and that sort of gives
you more flexibility in deciding your final ASF home upon graduation.
Sanjiva.
Mankovskii, Serge wrote:
> Hi Sanjiva,
>
> It is great to hear from you! I think we've met during EDCIS 2002 in
> Beijing. Arno Jacobsen was there too. It looks like you know Peter
> Niblett for a while as well!
>
> It looks like at the movement that we are not able to secure a member of
> Apache that would Champion and Sponsor us. I think we need to ask PMC to
> do that. Can you help us there?
>
> Yes, there is code, and a lot of it. But the code is focused on the
> pub/sub matching, messaging, and federation. It does not use any of WS
> stack at the moment and it does not follow any standards. We are going
> to release this code and then work it into the standards stack. It will
> bring results of six year research into the open source in a way that
> everybody would be able to use it.
>
> Reference Implementation means that within the project there will be it
> will be a distribution that would contain all that WS-N stack requires
> and no more or no less than that. To accomplish this objective within
> MUSE without totally re-implementing it might be a problem.
>
>
>
> Cheers
> Serge
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Sanjiva Weerawarana [mailto:sanjiva@opensource.lk]
> Sent: Friday, November 07, 2008 10:45 PM
> To: general@incubator.apache.org
> Cc: Mankovskii, Serge; savan-dev@ws.apache.org;
> dev@servicemix.apache.org; axis-dev@ws.apache.org
> Subject: Re: POLOKA proposal in context of existing Apache projects
>
> Deepal, that's cart before the horse .. this project needs to get to
> graduation first :).
>
> Serge, are you asking for the WS PMC to sponsor this project for
> incubation?
>
> If so, how does this relate to the WS-Notification impl we already have
> on
> top of Axis2? (Muse?) Having one by no means does not mean there can't
> be
> another; just trying to understand the relationship.
>
> Is there code already developed that you're looking to contribute to the
>
> ASF? Or are you proposing to write new code?? The first line of the
> proposal starts with "Poloka will be a standalone reference
> implementation
> ..". Later text suggests there's working code, but if there is no
> working
> code the right model is to join the existing community and build on that
>
> codebase.
>
> What does "reference implementation" mean?
>
> [Hi Peter (Niblett)! Long time :) ..]
>
> Sanjiva.
>
> Deepal jayasinghe wrote:
>> I think we can keep this as the same level as Sandesha and Ramparrt. I
>> mean we do not have any modules other than core stuff under Axis2.
>>
>> Deepal
>>> Serge,
>>>
>>> Unfortunately i won't be able to help much at this time due to time
>>> pressures. Hopefully one of my fellow PMC members may be interested
> in
>>> moving this forward. Best Wishes.
>>>
>>> thanks,
>>> dims
>>>
>>> On Fri, Nov 7, 2008 at 3:54 PM, Mankovskii, Serge
>>> <Se...@ca.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi Davanum,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> In our search for a Champion and Sponsor for the Poloka proposal
>>>> http://wiki.apache.org/incubator/PolokaProposal We looked into the
> Savan,
>>>> ServiceMix, Axis2, and MUSE projects.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> We find that it makes most sense, so far, to have Poloka as a
> project under
>>>> Axis2. It also makes sense to go into the ServiceMix, that
> implements
>>>> WS-Notification already, but objectives of ServiceMix and POLOKA are
>>>> somewhat different in respect to POLOKA goal to provide a
> stand-alone
>>>> reference implementation of the spec. Bringing entire ServiceMix in
> the
>>>> picture might be too much. However ServiceMix could benefit from the
> POLOKA
>>>> work in the future.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Poloka (http://poloka.org) could create an Axis2 module implementing
>>>> handlers creating a messaging network for a federation of Axis2
> servers.
>>>> This way we would be able to support
>>>>
>>>> - Standalone WS-Notification compliant notification producer
> and
>>>> notification consumer
>>>>
>>>> - Standalone WS-BrokeredNotification broker
>>>>
>>>> - Federation of WS-BrokeredNotification brokers.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> It would make sense to integrate Savan functionality within Poloka
> as time
>>>> goes but not other way around. I think so because Poloka objective
> is
>>>> broader than Savan objective in respect to:
>>>>
>>>> - Broker support
>>>>
>>>> Broker support is defined in WS-Notification and not in WS-Eventing.
>>>> Although it is possible that once a broker with WS-Eventing
> interface is
>>>> created, the picture might change.
>>>>
>>>> - Subscription
>>>>
>>>> WS-Eventing defines subscription language based on XPath
> (content-based
>>>> semantic). WS-Notification defines subscription Filers using Topic
> Dialects
>>>> (topic-based semantic), XPath over message content (content-based
> semantic,
>>>> same as in WS-Eventing), and resource properties (optional and
> unclear
>>>> semantics, needs refinement in the spec).
>>>>
>>>> - Matching performance
>>>>
>>>> It seems that we can improve performance of XPath matching based on
> the
>>>> research done by the PADRES
> http://research.msrg.utoronto.ca/pub/Padres
>>>> project. It would be equally applicable to WS-Notification and
> WS-Eventing.
>>>> Naweed Tajuddin, a Master student of Prof. Arno Jacobsen, is looking
>>>> specifically into this issue for his master thesis.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> What do you think?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> We are looking for the input and guidance of the Apache community in
> moving
>>>> the POLOKA proposal forward. Please help!
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Regards
>>>>
>>>> Serge
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>
--
Sanjiva Weerawarana, Ph.D.
Founder & Director; Lanka Software Foundation; http://www.opensource.lk/
Founder, Chairman & CEO; WSO2, Inc.; http://www.wso2.com/
Member; Apache Software Foundation; http://www.apache.org/
Visiting Lecturer; University of Moratuwa; http://www.cse.mrt.ac.lk/
Blog: http://sanjiva.weerawarana.org/
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
Re: POLOKA proposal in context of existing Apache projects
Posted by Sanjiva Weerawarana <sa...@opensource.lk>.
Hi Serge,
Sorry to not have recognized the name .. small world eh? :-).
OK now I understand the project - I've been long advocating universities
to participate in open source as I see universities as our research
division! That's the way we can beat any corporate research division ;-).
I'm happy to mentor it and champion it. However, let me try to find
another champion though just because of practical time issues ..
In terms of sponsor- if you want the WS PMC to sponsor it then you need to
make the request to private@ws.apache.org. Alternatively, we can ask the
Incubator PMC to sponsor it .. IMO that's easier and that sort of gives
you more flexibility in deciding your final ASF home upon graduation.
Sanjiva.
Mankovskii, Serge wrote:
> Hi Sanjiva,
>
> It is great to hear from you! I think we've met during EDCIS 2002 in
> Beijing. Arno Jacobsen was there too. It looks like you know Peter
> Niblett for a while as well!
>
> It looks like at the movement that we are not able to secure a member of
> Apache that would Champion and Sponsor us. I think we need to ask PMC to
> do that. Can you help us there?
>
> Yes, there is code, and a lot of it. But the code is focused on the
> pub/sub matching, messaging, and federation. It does not use any of WS
> stack at the moment and it does not follow any standards. We are going
> to release this code and then work it into the standards stack. It will
> bring results of six year research into the open source in a way that
> everybody would be able to use it.
>
> Reference Implementation means that within the project there will be it
> will be a distribution that would contain all that WS-N stack requires
> and no more or no less than that. To accomplish this objective within
> MUSE without totally re-implementing it might be a problem.
>
>
>
> Cheers
> Serge
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Sanjiva Weerawarana [mailto:sanjiva@opensource.lk]
> Sent: Friday, November 07, 2008 10:45 PM
> To: general@incubator.apache.org
> Cc: Mankovskii, Serge; savan-dev@ws.apache.org;
> dev@servicemix.apache.org; axis-dev@ws.apache.org
> Subject: Re: POLOKA proposal in context of existing Apache projects
>
> Deepal, that's cart before the horse .. this project needs to get to
> graduation first :).
>
> Serge, are you asking for the WS PMC to sponsor this project for
> incubation?
>
> If so, how does this relate to the WS-Notification impl we already have
> on
> top of Axis2? (Muse?) Having one by no means does not mean there can't
> be
> another; just trying to understand the relationship.
>
> Is there code already developed that you're looking to contribute to the
>
> ASF? Or are you proposing to write new code?? The first line of the
> proposal starts with "Poloka will be a standalone reference
> implementation
> ..". Later text suggests there's working code, but if there is no
> working
> code the right model is to join the existing community and build on that
>
> codebase.
>
> What does "reference implementation" mean?
>
> [Hi Peter (Niblett)! Long time :) ..]
>
> Sanjiva.
>
> Deepal jayasinghe wrote:
>> I think we can keep this as the same level as Sandesha and Ramparrt. I
>> mean we do not have any modules other than core stuff under Axis2.
>>
>> Deepal
>>> Serge,
>>>
>>> Unfortunately i won't be able to help much at this time due to time
>>> pressures. Hopefully one of my fellow PMC members may be interested
> in
>>> moving this forward. Best Wishes.
>>>
>>> thanks,
>>> dims
>>>
>>> On Fri, Nov 7, 2008 at 3:54 PM, Mankovskii, Serge
>>> <Se...@ca.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi Davanum,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> In our search for a Champion and Sponsor for the Poloka proposal
>>>> http://wiki.apache.org/incubator/PolokaProposal We looked into the
> Savan,
>>>> ServiceMix, Axis2, and MUSE projects.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> We find that it makes most sense, so far, to have Poloka as a
> project under
>>>> Axis2. It also makes sense to go into the ServiceMix, that
> implements
>>>> WS-Notification already, but objectives of ServiceMix and POLOKA are
>>>> somewhat different in respect to POLOKA goal to provide a
> stand-alone
>>>> reference implementation of the spec. Bringing entire ServiceMix in
> the
>>>> picture might be too much. However ServiceMix could benefit from the
> POLOKA
>>>> work in the future.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Poloka (http://poloka.org) could create an Axis2 module implementing
>>>> handlers creating a messaging network for a federation of Axis2
> servers.
>>>> This way we would be able to support
>>>>
>>>> - Standalone WS-Notification compliant notification producer
> and
>>>> notification consumer
>>>>
>>>> - Standalone WS-BrokeredNotification broker
>>>>
>>>> - Federation of WS-BrokeredNotification brokers.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> It would make sense to integrate Savan functionality within Poloka
> as time
>>>> goes but not other way around. I think so because Poloka objective
> is
>>>> broader than Savan objective in respect to:
>>>>
>>>> - Broker support
>>>>
>>>> Broker support is defined in WS-Notification and not in WS-Eventing.
>>>> Although it is possible that once a broker with WS-Eventing
> interface is
>>>> created, the picture might change.
>>>>
>>>> - Subscription
>>>>
>>>> WS-Eventing defines subscription language based on XPath
> (content-based
>>>> semantic). WS-Notification defines subscription Filers using Topic
> Dialects
>>>> (topic-based semantic), XPath over message content (content-based
> semantic,
>>>> same as in WS-Eventing), and resource properties (optional and
> unclear
>>>> semantics, needs refinement in the spec).
>>>>
>>>> - Matching performance
>>>>
>>>> It seems that we can improve performance of XPath matching based on
> the
>>>> research done by the PADRES
> http://research.msrg.utoronto.ca/pub/Padres
>>>> project. It would be equally applicable to WS-Notification and
> WS-Eventing.
>>>> Naweed Tajuddin, a Master student of Prof. Arno Jacobsen, is looking
>>>> specifically into this issue for his master thesis.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> What do you think?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> We are looking for the input and guidance of the Apache community in
> moving
>>>> the POLOKA proposal forward. Please help!
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Regards
>>>>
>>>> Serge
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>
--
Sanjiva Weerawarana, Ph.D.
Founder & Director; Lanka Software Foundation; http://www.opensource.lk/
Founder, Chairman & CEO; WSO2, Inc.; http://www.wso2.com/
Member; Apache Software Foundation; http://www.apache.org/
Visiting Lecturer; University of Moratuwa; http://www.cse.mrt.ac.lk/
Blog: http://sanjiva.weerawarana.org/
Re: POLOKA proposal in context of existing Apache projects
Posted by Sanjiva Weerawarana <sa...@opensource.lk>.
Hi Serge,
Sorry to not have recognized the name .. small world eh? :-).
OK now I understand the project - I've been long advocating universities
to participate in open source as I see universities as our research
division! That's the way we can beat any corporate research division ;-).
I'm happy to mentor it and champion it. However, let me try to find
another champion though just because of practical time issues ..
In terms of sponsor- if you want the WS PMC to sponsor it then you need to
make the request to private@ws.apache.org. Alternatively, we can ask the
Incubator PMC to sponsor it .. IMO that's easier and that sort of gives
you more flexibility in deciding your final ASF home upon graduation.
Sanjiva.
Mankovskii, Serge wrote:
> Hi Sanjiva,
>
> It is great to hear from you! I think we've met during EDCIS 2002 in
> Beijing. Arno Jacobsen was there too. It looks like you know Peter
> Niblett for a while as well!
>
> It looks like at the movement that we are not able to secure a member of
> Apache that would Champion and Sponsor us. I think we need to ask PMC to
> do that. Can you help us there?
>
> Yes, there is code, and a lot of it. But the code is focused on the
> pub/sub matching, messaging, and federation. It does not use any of WS
> stack at the moment and it does not follow any standards. We are going
> to release this code and then work it into the standards stack. It will
> bring results of six year research into the open source in a way that
> everybody would be able to use it.
>
> Reference Implementation means that within the project there will be it
> will be a distribution that would contain all that WS-N stack requires
> and no more or no less than that. To accomplish this objective within
> MUSE without totally re-implementing it might be a problem.
>
>
>
> Cheers
> Serge
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Sanjiva Weerawarana [mailto:sanjiva@opensource.lk]
> Sent: Friday, November 07, 2008 10:45 PM
> To: general@incubator.apache.org
> Cc: Mankovskii, Serge; savan-dev@ws.apache.org;
> dev@servicemix.apache.org; axis-dev@ws.apache.org
> Subject: Re: POLOKA proposal in context of existing Apache projects
>
> Deepal, that's cart before the horse .. this project needs to get to
> graduation first :).
>
> Serge, are you asking for the WS PMC to sponsor this project for
> incubation?
>
> If so, how does this relate to the WS-Notification impl we already have
> on
> top of Axis2? (Muse?) Having one by no means does not mean there can't
> be
> another; just trying to understand the relationship.
>
> Is there code already developed that you're looking to contribute to the
>
> ASF? Or are you proposing to write new code?? The first line of the
> proposal starts with "Poloka will be a standalone reference
> implementation
> ..". Later text suggests there's working code, but if there is no
> working
> code the right model is to join the existing community and build on that
>
> codebase.
>
> What does "reference implementation" mean?
>
> [Hi Peter (Niblett)! Long time :) ..]
>
> Sanjiva.
>
> Deepal jayasinghe wrote:
>> I think we can keep this as the same level as Sandesha and Ramparrt. I
>> mean we do not have any modules other than core stuff under Axis2.
>>
>> Deepal
>>> Serge,
>>>
>>> Unfortunately i won't be able to help much at this time due to time
>>> pressures. Hopefully one of my fellow PMC members may be interested
> in
>>> moving this forward. Best Wishes.
>>>
>>> thanks,
>>> dims
>>>
>>> On Fri, Nov 7, 2008 at 3:54 PM, Mankovskii, Serge
>>> <Se...@ca.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi Davanum,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> In our search for a Champion and Sponsor for the Poloka proposal
>>>> http://wiki.apache.org/incubator/PolokaProposal We looked into the
> Savan,
>>>> ServiceMix, Axis2, and MUSE projects.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> We find that it makes most sense, so far, to have Poloka as a
> project under
>>>> Axis2. It also makes sense to go into the ServiceMix, that
> implements
>>>> WS-Notification already, but objectives of ServiceMix and POLOKA are
>>>> somewhat different in respect to POLOKA goal to provide a
> stand-alone
>>>> reference implementation of the spec. Bringing entire ServiceMix in
> the
>>>> picture might be too much. However ServiceMix could benefit from the
> POLOKA
>>>> work in the future.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Poloka (http://poloka.org) could create an Axis2 module implementing
>>>> handlers creating a messaging network for a federation of Axis2
> servers.
>>>> This way we would be able to support
>>>>
>>>> - Standalone WS-Notification compliant notification producer
> and
>>>> notification consumer
>>>>
>>>> - Standalone WS-BrokeredNotification broker
>>>>
>>>> - Federation of WS-BrokeredNotification brokers.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> It would make sense to integrate Savan functionality within Poloka
> as time
>>>> goes but not other way around. I think so because Poloka objective
> is
>>>> broader than Savan objective in respect to:
>>>>
>>>> - Broker support
>>>>
>>>> Broker support is defined in WS-Notification and not in WS-Eventing.
>>>> Although it is possible that once a broker with WS-Eventing
> interface is
>>>> created, the picture might change.
>>>>
>>>> - Subscription
>>>>
>>>> WS-Eventing defines subscription language based on XPath
> (content-based
>>>> semantic). WS-Notification defines subscription Filers using Topic
> Dialects
>>>> (topic-based semantic), XPath over message content (content-based
> semantic,
>>>> same as in WS-Eventing), and resource properties (optional and
> unclear
>>>> semantics, needs refinement in the spec).
>>>>
>>>> - Matching performance
>>>>
>>>> It seems that we can improve performance of XPath matching based on
> the
>>>> research done by the PADRES
> http://research.msrg.utoronto.ca/pub/Padres
>>>> project. It would be equally applicable to WS-Notification and
> WS-Eventing.
>>>> Naweed Tajuddin, a Master student of Prof. Arno Jacobsen, is looking
>>>> specifically into this issue for his master thesis.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> What do you think?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> We are looking for the input and guidance of the Apache community in
> moving
>>>> the POLOKA proposal forward. Please help!
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Regards
>>>>
>>>> Serge
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>
--
Sanjiva Weerawarana, Ph.D.
Founder & Director; Lanka Software Foundation; http://www.opensource.lk/
Founder, Chairman & CEO; WSO2, Inc.; http://www.wso2.com/
Member; Apache Software Foundation; http://www.apache.org/
Visiting Lecturer; University of Moratuwa; http://www.cse.mrt.ac.lk/
Blog: http://sanjiva.weerawarana.org/
RE: POLOKA proposal in context of existing Apache projects
Posted by "Mankovskii, Serge" <Se...@ca.com>.
Hi Sanjiva,
It is great to hear from you! I think we've met during EDCIS 2002 in
Beijing. Arno Jacobsen was there too. It looks like you know Peter
Niblett for a while as well!
It looks like at the movement that we are not able to secure a member of
Apache that would Champion and Sponsor us. I think we need to ask PMC to
do that. Can you help us there?
Yes, there is code, and a lot of it. But the code is focused on the
pub/sub matching, messaging, and federation. It does not use any of WS
stack at the moment and it does not follow any standards. We are going
to release this code and then work it into the standards stack. It will
bring results of six year research into the open source in a way that
everybody would be able to use it.
Reference Implementation means that within the project there will be it
will be a distribution that would contain all that WS-N stack requires
and no more or no less than that. To accomplish this objective within
MUSE without totally re-implementing it might be a problem.
Cheers
Serge
-----Original Message-----
From: Sanjiva Weerawarana [mailto:sanjiva@opensource.lk]
Sent: Friday, November 07, 2008 10:45 PM
To: general@incubator.apache.org
Cc: Mankovskii, Serge; savan-dev@ws.apache.org;
dev@servicemix.apache.org; axis-dev@ws.apache.org
Subject: Re: POLOKA proposal in context of existing Apache projects
Deepal, that's cart before the horse .. this project needs to get to
graduation first :).
Serge, are you asking for the WS PMC to sponsor this project for
incubation?
If so, how does this relate to the WS-Notification impl we already have
on
top of Axis2? (Muse?) Having one by no means does not mean there can't
be
another; just trying to understand the relationship.
Is there code already developed that you're looking to contribute to the
ASF? Or are you proposing to write new code?? The first line of the
proposal starts with "Poloka will be a standalone reference
implementation
..". Later text suggests there's working code, but if there is no
working
code the right model is to join the existing community and build on that
codebase.
What does "reference implementation" mean?
[Hi Peter (Niblett)! Long time :) ..]
Sanjiva.
Deepal jayasinghe wrote:
> I think we can keep this as the same level as Sandesha and Ramparrt. I
> mean we do not have any modules other than core stuff under Axis2.
>
> Deepal
>> Serge,
>>
>> Unfortunately i won't be able to help much at this time due to time
>> pressures. Hopefully one of my fellow PMC members may be interested
in
>> moving this forward. Best Wishes.
>>
>> thanks,
>> dims
>>
>> On Fri, Nov 7, 2008 at 3:54 PM, Mankovskii, Serge
>> <Se...@ca.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Davanum,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> In our search for a Champion and Sponsor for the Poloka proposal
>>> http://wiki.apache.org/incubator/PolokaProposal We looked into the
Savan,
>>> ServiceMix, Axis2, and MUSE projects.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> We find that it makes most sense, so far, to have Poloka as a
project under
>>> Axis2. It also makes sense to go into the ServiceMix, that
implements
>>> WS-Notification already, but objectives of ServiceMix and POLOKA are
>>> somewhat different in respect to POLOKA goal to provide a
stand-alone
>>> reference implementation of the spec. Bringing entire ServiceMix in
the
>>> picture might be too much. However ServiceMix could benefit from the
POLOKA
>>> work in the future.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Poloka (http://poloka.org) could create an Axis2 module implementing
>>> handlers creating a messaging network for a federation of Axis2
servers.
>>> This way we would be able to support
>>>
>>> - Standalone WS-Notification compliant notification producer
and
>>> notification consumer
>>>
>>> - Standalone WS-BrokeredNotification broker
>>>
>>> - Federation of WS-BrokeredNotification brokers.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> It would make sense to integrate Savan functionality within Poloka
as time
>>> goes but not other way around. I think so because Poloka objective
is
>>> broader than Savan objective in respect to:
>>>
>>> - Broker support
>>>
>>> Broker support is defined in WS-Notification and not in WS-Eventing.
>>> Although it is possible that once a broker with WS-Eventing
interface is
>>> created, the picture might change.
>>>
>>> - Subscription
>>>
>>> WS-Eventing defines subscription language based on XPath
(content-based
>>> semantic). WS-Notification defines subscription Filers using Topic
Dialects
>>> (topic-based semantic), XPath over message content (content-based
semantic,
>>> same as in WS-Eventing), and resource properties (optional and
unclear
>>> semantics, needs refinement in the spec).
>>>
>>> - Matching performance
>>>
>>> It seems that we can improve performance of XPath matching based on
the
>>> research done by the PADRES
http://research.msrg.utoronto.ca/pub/Padres
>>> project. It would be equally applicable to WS-Notification and
WS-Eventing.
>>> Naweed Tajuddin, a Master student of Prof. Arno Jacobsen, is looking
>>> specifically into this issue for his master thesis.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> What do you think?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> We are looking for the input and guidance of the Apache community in
moving
>>> the POLOKA proposal forward. Please help!
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Regards
>>>
>>> Serge
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
--
Sanjiva Weerawarana, Ph.D.
Founder & Director; Lanka Software Foundation; http://www.opensource.lk/
Founder, Chairman & CEO; WSO2, Inc.; http://www.wso2.com/
Member; Apache Software Foundation; http://www.apache.org/
Visiting Lecturer; University of Moratuwa; http://www.cse.mrt.ac.lk/
Blog: http://sanjiva.weerawarana.org/
RE: POLOKA proposal in context of existing Apache projects
Posted by "Mankovskii, Serge" <Se...@ca.com>.
Hi Sanjiva,
It is great to hear from you! I think we've met during EDCIS 2002 in
Beijing. Arno Jacobsen was there too. It looks like you know Peter
Niblett for a while as well!
It looks like at the movement that we are not able to secure a member of
Apache that would Champion and Sponsor us. I think we need to ask PMC to
do that. Can you help us there?
Yes, there is code, and a lot of it. But the code is focused on the
pub/sub matching, messaging, and federation. It does not use any of WS
stack at the moment and it does not follow any standards. We are going
to release this code and then work it into the standards stack. It will
bring results of six year research into the open source in a way that
everybody would be able to use it.
Reference Implementation means that within the project there will be it
will be a distribution that would contain all that WS-N stack requires
and no more or no less than that. To accomplish this objective within
MUSE without totally re-implementing it might be a problem.
Cheers
Serge
-----Original Message-----
From: Sanjiva Weerawarana [mailto:sanjiva@opensource.lk]
Sent: Friday, November 07, 2008 10:45 PM
To: general@incubator.apache.org
Cc: Mankovskii, Serge; savan-dev@ws.apache.org;
dev@servicemix.apache.org; axis-dev@ws.apache.org
Subject: Re: POLOKA proposal in context of existing Apache projects
Deepal, that's cart before the horse .. this project needs to get to
graduation first :).
Serge, are you asking for the WS PMC to sponsor this project for
incubation?
If so, how does this relate to the WS-Notification impl we already have
on
top of Axis2? (Muse?) Having one by no means does not mean there can't
be
another; just trying to understand the relationship.
Is there code already developed that you're looking to contribute to the
ASF? Or are you proposing to write new code?? The first line of the
proposal starts with "Poloka will be a standalone reference
implementation
..". Later text suggests there's working code, but if there is no
working
code the right model is to join the existing community and build on that
codebase.
What does "reference implementation" mean?
[Hi Peter (Niblett)! Long time :) ..]
Sanjiva.
Deepal jayasinghe wrote:
> I think we can keep this as the same level as Sandesha and Ramparrt. I
> mean we do not have any modules other than core stuff under Axis2.
>
> Deepal
>> Serge,
>>
>> Unfortunately i won't be able to help much at this time due to time
>> pressures. Hopefully one of my fellow PMC members may be interested
in
>> moving this forward. Best Wishes.
>>
>> thanks,
>> dims
>>
>> On Fri, Nov 7, 2008 at 3:54 PM, Mankovskii, Serge
>> <Se...@ca.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Davanum,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> In our search for a Champion and Sponsor for the Poloka proposal
>>> http://wiki.apache.org/incubator/PolokaProposal We looked into the
Savan,
>>> ServiceMix, Axis2, and MUSE projects.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> We find that it makes most sense, so far, to have Poloka as a
project under
>>> Axis2. It also makes sense to go into the ServiceMix, that
implements
>>> WS-Notification already, but objectives of ServiceMix and POLOKA are
>>> somewhat different in respect to POLOKA goal to provide a
stand-alone
>>> reference implementation of the spec. Bringing entire ServiceMix in
the
>>> picture might be too much. However ServiceMix could benefit from the
POLOKA
>>> work in the future.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Poloka (http://poloka.org) could create an Axis2 module implementing
>>> handlers creating a messaging network for a federation of Axis2
servers.
>>> This way we would be able to support
>>>
>>> - Standalone WS-Notification compliant notification producer
and
>>> notification consumer
>>>
>>> - Standalone WS-BrokeredNotification broker
>>>
>>> - Federation of WS-BrokeredNotification brokers.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> It would make sense to integrate Savan functionality within Poloka
as time
>>> goes but not other way around. I think so because Poloka objective
is
>>> broader than Savan objective in respect to:
>>>
>>> - Broker support
>>>
>>> Broker support is defined in WS-Notification and not in WS-Eventing.
>>> Although it is possible that once a broker with WS-Eventing
interface is
>>> created, the picture might change.
>>>
>>> - Subscription
>>>
>>> WS-Eventing defines subscription language based on XPath
(content-based
>>> semantic). WS-Notification defines subscription Filers using Topic
Dialects
>>> (topic-based semantic), XPath over message content (content-based
semantic,
>>> same as in WS-Eventing), and resource properties (optional and
unclear
>>> semantics, needs refinement in the spec).
>>>
>>> - Matching performance
>>>
>>> It seems that we can improve performance of XPath matching based on
the
>>> research done by the PADRES
http://research.msrg.utoronto.ca/pub/Padres
>>> project. It would be equally applicable to WS-Notification and
WS-Eventing.
>>> Naweed Tajuddin, a Master student of Prof. Arno Jacobsen, is looking
>>> specifically into this issue for his master thesis.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> What do you think?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> We are looking for the input and guidance of the Apache community in
moving
>>> the POLOKA proposal forward. Please help!
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Regards
>>>
>>> Serge
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
--
Sanjiva Weerawarana, Ph.D.
Founder & Director; Lanka Software Foundation; http://www.opensource.lk/
Founder, Chairman & CEO; WSO2, Inc.; http://www.wso2.com/
Member; Apache Software Foundation; http://www.apache.org/
Visiting Lecturer; University of Moratuwa; http://www.cse.mrt.ac.lk/
Blog: http://sanjiva.weerawarana.org/
RE: POLOKA proposal in context of existing Apache projects
Posted by "Mankovskii, Serge" <Se...@ca.com>.
Hi Sanjiva,
It is great to hear from you! I think we've met during EDCIS 2002 in
Beijing. Arno Jacobsen was there too. It looks like you know Peter
Niblett for a while as well!
It looks like at the movement that we are not able to secure a member of
Apache that would Champion and Sponsor us. I think we need to ask PMC to
do that. Can you help us there?
Yes, there is code, and a lot of it. But the code is focused on the
pub/sub matching, messaging, and federation. It does not use any of WS
stack at the moment and it does not follow any standards. We are going
to release this code and then work it into the standards stack. It will
bring results of six year research into the open source in a way that
everybody would be able to use it.
Reference Implementation means that within the project there will be it
will be a distribution that would contain all that WS-N stack requires
and no more or no less than that. To accomplish this objective within
MUSE without totally re-implementing it might be a problem.
Cheers
Serge
-----Original Message-----
From: Sanjiva Weerawarana [mailto:sanjiva@opensource.lk]
Sent: Friday, November 07, 2008 10:45 PM
To: general@incubator.apache.org
Cc: Mankovskii, Serge; savan-dev@ws.apache.org;
dev@servicemix.apache.org; axis-dev@ws.apache.org
Subject: Re: POLOKA proposal in context of existing Apache projects
Deepal, that's cart before the horse .. this project needs to get to
graduation first :).
Serge, are you asking for the WS PMC to sponsor this project for
incubation?
If so, how does this relate to the WS-Notification impl we already have
on
top of Axis2? (Muse?) Having one by no means does not mean there can't
be
another; just trying to understand the relationship.
Is there code already developed that you're looking to contribute to the
ASF? Or are you proposing to write new code?? The first line of the
proposal starts with "Poloka will be a standalone reference
implementation
..". Later text suggests there's working code, but if there is no
working
code the right model is to join the existing community and build on that
codebase.
What does "reference implementation" mean?
[Hi Peter (Niblett)! Long time :) ..]
Sanjiva.
Deepal jayasinghe wrote:
> I think we can keep this as the same level as Sandesha and Ramparrt. I
> mean we do not have any modules other than core stuff under Axis2.
>
> Deepal
>> Serge,
>>
>> Unfortunately i won't be able to help much at this time due to time
>> pressures. Hopefully one of my fellow PMC members may be interested
in
>> moving this forward. Best Wishes.
>>
>> thanks,
>> dims
>>
>> On Fri, Nov 7, 2008 at 3:54 PM, Mankovskii, Serge
>> <Se...@ca.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Davanum,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> In our search for a Champion and Sponsor for the Poloka proposal
>>> http://wiki.apache.org/incubator/PolokaProposal We looked into the
Savan,
>>> ServiceMix, Axis2, and MUSE projects.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> We find that it makes most sense, so far, to have Poloka as a
project under
>>> Axis2. It also makes sense to go into the ServiceMix, that
implements
>>> WS-Notification already, but objectives of ServiceMix and POLOKA are
>>> somewhat different in respect to POLOKA goal to provide a
stand-alone
>>> reference implementation of the spec. Bringing entire ServiceMix in
the
>>> picture might be too much. However ServiceMix could benefit from the
POLOKA
>>> work in the future.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Poloka (http://poloka.org) could create an Axis2 module implementing
>>> handlers creating a messaging network for a federation of Axis2
servers.
>>> This way we would be able to support
>>>
>>> - Standalone WS-Notification compliant notification producer
and
>>> notification consumer
>>>
>>> - Standalone WS-BrokeredNotification broker
>>>
>>> - Federation of WS-BrokeredNotification brokers.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> It would make sense to integrate Savan functionality within Poloka
as time
>>> goes but not other way around. I think so because Poloka objective
is
>>> broader than Savan objective in respect to:
>>>
>>> - Broker support
>>>
>>> Broker support is defined in WS-Notification and not in WS-Eventing.
>>> Although it is possible that once a broker with WS-Eventing
interface is
>>> created, the picture might change.
>>>
>>> - Subscription
>>>
>>> WS-Eventing defines subscription language based on XPath
(content-based
>>> semantic). WS-Notification defines subscription Filers using Topic
Dialects
>>> (topic-based semantic), XPath over message content (content-based
semantic,
>>> same as in WS-Eventing), and resource properties (optional and
unclear
>>> semantics, needs refinement in the spec).
>>>
>>> - Matching performance
>>>
>>> It seems that we can improve performance of XPath matching based on
the
>>> research done by the PADRES
http://research.msrg.utoronto.ca/pub/Padres
>>> project. It would be equally applicable to WS-Notification and
WS-Eventing.
>>> Naweed Tajuddin, a Master student of Prof. Arno Jacobsen, is looking
>>> specifically into this issue for his master thesis.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> What do you think?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> We are looking for the input and guidance of the Apache community in
moving
>>> the POLOKA proposal forward. Please help!
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Regards
>>>
>>> Serge
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
--
Sanjiva Weerawarana, Ph.D.
Founder & Director; Lanka Software Foundation; http://www.opensource.lk/
Founder, Chairman & CEO; WSO2, Inc.; http://www.wso2.com/
Member; Apache Software Foundation; http://www.apache.org/
Visiting Lecturer; University of Moratuwa; http://www.cse.mrt.ac.lk/
Blog: http://sanjiva.weerawarana.org/
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
Re: POLOKA proposal in context of existing Apache projects
Posted by Sanjiva Weerawarana <sa...@opensource.lk>.
Deepal, that's cart before the horse .. this project needs to get to
graduation first :).
Serge, are you asking for the WS PMC to sponsor this project for incubation?
If so, how does this relate to the WS-Notification impl we already have on
top of Axis2? (Muse?) Having one by no means does not mean there can't be
another; just trying to understand the relationship.
Is there code already developed that you're looking to contribute to the
ASF? Or are you proposing to write new code?? The first line of the
proposal starts with "Poloka will be a standalone reference implementation
..". Later text suggests there's working code, but if there is no working
code the right model is to join the existing community and build on that
codebase.
What does "reference implementation" mean?
[Hi Peter (Niblett)! Long time :) ..]
Sanjiva.
Deepal jayasinghe wrote:
> I think we can keep this as the same level as Sandesha and Ramparrt. I
> mean we do not have any modules other than core stuff under Axis2.
>
> Deepal
>> Serge,
>>
>> Unfortunately i won't be able to help much at this time due to time
>> pressures. Hopefully one of my fellow PMC members may be interested in
>> moving this forward. Best Wishes.
>>
>> thanks,
>> dims
>>
>> On Fri, Nov 7, 2008 at 3:54 PM, Mankovskii, Serge
>> <Se...@ca.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Davanum,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> In our search for a Champion and Sponsor for the Poloka proposal
>>> http://wiki.apache.org/incubator/PolokaProposal We looked into the Savan,
>>> ServiceMix, Axis2, and MUSE projects.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> We find that it makes most sense, so far, to have Poloka as a project under
>>> Axis2. It also makes sense to go into the ServiceMix, that implements
>>> WS-Notification already, but objectives of ServiceMix and POLOKA are
>>> somewhat different in respect to POLOKA goal to provide a stand-alone
>>> reference implementation of the spec. Bringing entire ServiceMix in the
>>> picture might be too much. However ServiceMix could benefit from the POLOKA
>>> work in the future.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Poloka (http://poloka.org) could create an Axis2 module implementing
>>> handlers creating a messaging network for a federation of Axis2 servers.
>>> This way we would be able to support
>>>
>>> - Standalone WS-Notification compliant notification producer and
>>> notification consumer
>>>
>>> - Standalone WS-BrokeredNotification broker
>>>
>>> - Federation of WS-BrokeredNotification brokers.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> It would make sense to integrate Savan functionality within Poloka as time
>>> goes but not other way around. I think so because Poloka objective is
>>> broader than Savan objective in respect to:
>>>
>>> - Broker support
>>>
>>> Broker support is defined in WS-Notification and not in WS-Eventing.
>>> Although it is possible that once a broker with WS-Eventing interface is
>>> created, the picture might change.
>>>
>>> - Subscription
>>>
>>> WS-Eventing defines subscription language based on XPath (content-based
>>> semantic). WS-Notification defines subscription Filers using Topic Dialects
>>> (topic-based semantic), XPath over message content (content-based semantic,
>>> same as in WS-Eventing), and resource properties (optional and unclear
>>> semantics, needs refinement in the spec).
>>>
>>> - Matching performance
>>>
>>> It seems that we can improve performance of XPath matching based on the
>>> research done by the PADRES http://research.msrg.utoronto.ca/pub/Padres
>>> project. It would be equally applicable to WS-Notification and WS-Eventing.
>>> Naweed Tajuddin, a Master student of Prof. Arno Jacobsen, is looking
>>> specifically into this issue for his master thesis.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> What do you think?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> We are looking for the input and guidance of the Apache community in moving
>>> the POLOKA proposal forward. Please help!
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Regards
>>>
>>> Serge
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
--
Sanjiva Weerawarana, Ph.D.
Founder & Director; Lanka Software Foundation; http://www.opensource.lk/
Founder, Chairman & CEO; WSO2, Inc.; http://www.wso2.com/
Member; Apache Software Foundation; http://www.apache.org/
Visiting Lecturer; University of Moratuwa; http://www.cse.mrt.ac.lk/
Blog: http://sanjiva.weerawarana.org/
Re: POLOKA proposal in context of existing Apache projects
Posted by Sanjiva Weerawarana <sa...@opensource.lk>.
Deepal, that's cart before the horse .. this project needs to get to
graduation first :).
Serge, are you asking for the WS PMC to sponsor this project for incubation?
If so, how does this relate to the WS-Notification impl we already have on
top of Axis2? (Muse?) Having one by no means does not mean there can't be
another; just trying to understand the relationship.
Is there code already developed that you're looking to contribute to the
ASF? Or are you proposing to write new code?? The first line of the
proposal starts with "Poloka will be a standalone reference implementation
..". Later text suggests there's working code, but if there is no working
code the right model is to join the existing community and build on that
codebase.
What does "reference implementation" mean?
[Hi Peter (Niblett)! Long time :) ..]
Sanjiva.
Deepal jayasinghe wrote:
> I think we can keep this as the same level as Sandesha and Ramparrt. I
> mean we do not have any modules other than core stuff under Axis2.
>
> Deepal
>> Serge,
>>
>> Unfortunately i won't be able to help much at this time due to time
>> pressures. Hopefully one of my fellow PMC members may be interested in
>> moving this forward. Best Wishes.
>>
>> thanks,
>> dims
>>
>> On Fri, Nov 7, 2008 at 3:54 PM, Mankovskii, Serge
>> <Se...@ca.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Davanum,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> In our search for a Champion and Sponsor for the Poloka proposal
>>> http://wiki.apache.org/incubator/PolokaProposal We looked into the Savan,
>>> ServiceMix, Axis2, and MUSE projects.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> We find that it makes most sense, so far, to have Poloka as a project under
>>> Axis2. It also makes sense to go into the ServiceMix, that implements
>>> WS-Notification already, but objectives of ServiceMix and POLOKA are
>>> somewhat different in respect to POLOKA goal to provide a stand-alone
>>> reference implementation of the spec. Bringing entire ServiceMix in the
>>> picture might be too much. However ServiceMix could benefit from the POLOKA
>>> work in the future.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Poloka (http://poloka.org) could create an Axis2 module implementing
>>> handlers creating a messaging network for a federation of Axis2 servers.
>>> This way we would be able to support
>>>
>>> - Standalone WS-Notification compliant notification producer and
>>> notification consumer
>>>
>>> - Standalone WS-BrokeredNotification broker
>>>
>>> - Federation of WS-BrokeredNotification brokers.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> It would make sense to integrate Savan functionality within Poloka as time
>>> goes but not other way around. I think so because Poloka objective is
>>> broader than Savan objective in respect to:
>>>
>>> - Broker support
>>>
>>> Broker support is defined in WS-Notification and not in WS-Eventing.
>>> Although it is possible that once a broker with WS-Eventing interface is
>>> created, the picture might change.
>>>
>>> - Subscription
>>>
>>> WS-Eventing defines subscription language based on XPath (content-based
>>> semantic). WS-Notification defines subscription Filers using Topic Dialects
>>> (topic-based semantic), XPath over message content (content-based semantic,
>>> same as in WS-Eventing), and resource properties (optional and unclear
>>> semantics, needs refinement in the spec).
>>>
>>> - Matching performance
>>>
>>> It seems that we can improve performance of XPath matching based on the
>>> research done by the PADRES http://research.msrg.utoronto.ca/pub/Padres
>>> project. It would be equally applicable to WS-Notification and WS-Eventing.
>>> Naweed Tajuddin, a Master student of Prof. Arno Jacobsen, is looking
>>> specifically into this issue for his master thesis.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> What do you think?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> We are looking for the input and guidance of the Apache community in moving
>>> the POLOKA proposal forward. Please help!
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Regards
>>>
>>> Serge
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
--
Sanjiva Weerawarana, Ph.D.
Founder & Director; Lanka Software Foundation; http://www.opensource.lk/
Founder, Chairman & CEO; WSO2, Inc.; http://www.wso2.com/
Member; Apache Software Foundation; http://www.apache.org/
Visiting Lecturer; University of Moratuwa; http://www.cse.mrt.ac.lk/
Blog: http://sanjiva.weerawarana.org/
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
Re: POLOKA proposal in context of existing Apache projects
Posted by Sanjiva Weerawarana <sa...@opensource.lk>.
Deepal, that's cart before the horse .. this project needs to get to
graduation first :).
Serge, are you asking for the WS PMC to sponsor this project for incubation?
If so, how does this relate to the WS-Notification impl we already have on
top of Axis2? (Muse?) Having one by no means does not mean there can't be
another; just trying to understand the relationship.
Is there code already developed that you're looking to contribute to the
ASF? Or are you proposing to write new code?? The first line of the
proposal starts with "Poloka will be a standalone reference implementation
..". Later text suggests there's working code, but if there is no working
code the right model is to join the existing community and build on that
codebase.
What does "reference implementation" mean?
[Hi Peter (Niblett)! Long time :) ..]
Sanjiva.
Deepal jayasinghe wrote:
> I think we can keep this as the same level as Sandesha and Ramparrt. I
> mean we do not have any modules other than core stuff under Axis2.
>
> Deepal
>> Serge,
>>
>> Unfortunately i won't be able to help much at this time due to time
>> pressures. Hopefully one of my fellow PMC members may be interested in
>> moving this forward. Best Wishes.
>>
>> thanks,
>> dims
>>
>> On Fri, Nov 7, 2008 at 3:54 PM, Mankovskii, Serge
>> <Se...@ca.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Davanum,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> In our search for a Champion and Sponsor for the Poloka proposal
>>> http://wiki.apache.org/incubator/PolokaProposal We looked into the Savan,
>>> ServiceMix, Axis2, and MUSE projects.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> We find that it makes most sense, so far, to have Poloka as a project under
>>> Axis2. It also makes sense to go into the ServiceMix, that implements
>>> WS-Notification already, but objectives of ServiceMix and POLOKA are
>>> somewhat different in respect to POLOKA goal to provide a stand-alone
>>> reference implementation of the spec. Bringing entire ServiceMix in the
>>> picture might be too much. However ServiceMix could benefit from the POLOKA
>>> work in the future.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Poloka (http://poloka.org) could create an Axis2 module implementing
>>> handlers creating a messaging network for a federation of Axis2 servers.
>>> This way we would be able to support
>>>
>>> - Standalone WS-Notification compliant notification producer and
>>> notification consumer
>>>
>>> - Standalone WS-BrokeredNotification broker
>>>
>>> - Federation of WS-BrokeredNotification brokers.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> It would make sense to integrate Savan functionality within Poloka as time
>>> goes but not other way around. I think so because Poloka objective is
>>> broader than Savan objective in respect to:
>>>
>>> - Broker support
>>>
>>> Broker support is defined in WS-Notification and not in WS-Eventing.
>>> Although it is possible that once a broker with WS-Eventing interface is
>>> created, the picture might change.
>>>
>>> - Subscription
>>>
>>> WS-Eventing defines subscription language based on XPath (content-based
>>> semantic). WS-Notification defines subscription Filers using Topic Dialects
>>> (topic-based semantic), XPath over message content (content-based semantic,
>>> same as in WS-Eventing), and resource properties (optional and unclear
>>> semantics, needs refinement in the spec).
>>>
>>> - Matching performance
>>>
>>> It seems that we can improve performance of XPath matching based on the
>>> research done by the PADRES http://research.msrg.utoronto.ca/pub/Padres
>>> project. It would be equally applicable to WS-Notification and WS-Eventing.
>>> Naweed Tajuddin, a Master student of Prof. Arno Jacobsen, is looking
>>> specifically into this issue for his master thesis.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> What do you think?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> We are looking for the input and guidance of the Apache community in moving
>>> the POLOKA proposal forward. Please help!
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Regards
>>>
>>> Serge
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
--
Sanjiva Weerawarana, Ph.D.
Founder & Director; Lanka Software Foundation; http://www.opensource.lk/
Founder, Chairman & CEO; WSO2, Inc.; http://www.wso2.com/
Member; Apache Software Foundation; http://www.apache.org/
Visiting Lecturer; University of Moratuwa; http://www.cse.mrt.ac.lk/
Blog: http://sanjiva.weerawarana.org/
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Re: POLOKA proposal in context of existing Apache projects
Posted by Deepal jayasinghe <de...@gmail.com>.
I think we can keep this as the same level as Sandesha and Ramparrt. I
mean we do not have any modules other than core stuff under Axis2.
Deepal
> Serge,
>
> Unfortunately i won't be able to help much at this time due to time
> pressures. Hopefully one of my fellow PMC members may be interested in
> moving this forward. Best Wishes.
>
> thanks,
> dims
>
> On Fri, Nov 7, 2008 at 3:54 PM, Mankovskii, Serge
> <Se...@ca.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi Davanum,
>>
>>
>>
>> In our search for a Champion and Sponsor for the Poloka proposal
>> http://wiki.apache.org/incubator/PolokaProposal We looked into the Savan,
>> ServiceMix, Axis2, and MUSE projects.
>>
>>
>>
>> We find that it makes most sense, so far, to have Poloka as a project under
>> Axis2. It also makes sense to go into the ServiceMix, that implements
>> WS-Notification already, but objectives of ServiceMix and POLOKA are
>> somewhat different in respect to POLOKA goal to provide a stand-alone
>> reference implementation of the spec. Bringing entire ServiceMix in the
>> picture might be too much. However ServiceMix could benefit from the POLOKA
>> work in the future.
>>
>>
>>
>> Poloka (http://poloka.org) could create an Axis2 module implementing
>> handlers creating a messaging network for a federation of Axis2 servers.
>> This way we would be able to support
>>
>> - Standalone WS-Notification compliant notification producer and
>> notification consumer
>>
>> - Standalone WS-BrokeredNotification broker
>>
>> - Federation of WS-BrokeredNotification brokers.
>>
>>
>>
>> It would make sense to integrate Savan functionality within Poloka as time
>> goes but not other way around. I think so because Poloka objective is
>> broader than Savan objective in respect to:
>>
>> - Broker support
>>
>> Broker support is defined in WS-Notification and not in WS-Eventing.
>> Although it is possible that once a broker with WS-Eventing interface is
>> created, the picture might change.
>>
>> - Subscription
>>
>> WS-Eventing defines subscription language based on XPath (content-based
>> semantic). WS-Notification defines subscription Filers using Topic Dialects
>> (topic-based semantic), XPath over message content (content-based semantic,
>> same as in WS-Eventing), and resource properties (optional and unclear
>> semantics, needs refinement in the spec).
>>
>> - Matching performance
>>
>> It seems that we can improve performance of XPath matching based on the
>> research done by the PADRES http://research.msrg.utoronto.ca/pub/Padres
>> project. It would be equally applicable to WS-Notification and WS-Eventing.
>> Naweed Tajuddin, a Master student of Prof. Arno Jacobsen, is looking
>> specifically into this issue for his master thesis.
>>
>>
>>
>> What do you think?
>>
>>
>>
>> We are looking for the input and guidance of the Apache community in moving
>> the POLOKA proposal forward. Please help!
>>
>>
>>
>> Regards
>>
>> Serge
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
--
Thank you!
http://blogs.deepal.org
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Re: POLOKA proposal in context of existing Apache projects
Posted by Deepal jayasinghe <de...@gmail.com>.
I think we can keep this as the same level as Sandesha and Ramparrt. I
mean we do not have any modules other than core stuff under Axis2.
Deepal
> Serge,
>
> Unfortunately i won't be able to help much at this time due to time
> pressures. Hopefully one of my fellow PMC members may be interested in
> moving this forward. Best Wishes.
>
> thanks,
> dims
>
> On Fri, Nov 7, 2008 at 3:54 PM, Mankovskii, Serge
> <Se...@ca.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi Davanum,
>>
>>
>>
>> In our search for a Champion and Sponsor for the Poloka proposal
>> http://wiki.apache.org/incubator/PolokaProposal We looked into the Savan,
>> ServiceMix, Axis2, and MUSE projects.
>>
>>
>>
>> We find that it makes most sense, so far, to have Poloka as a project under
>> Axis2. It also makes sense to go into the ServiceMix, that implements
>> WS-Notification already, but objectives of ServiceMix and POLOKA are
>> somewhat different in respect to POLOKA goal to provide a stand-alone
>> reference implementation of the spec. Bringing entire ServiceMix in the
>> picture might be too much. However ServiceMix could benefit from the POLOKA
>> work in the future.
>>
>>
>>
>> Poloka (http://poloka.org) could create an Axis2 module implementing
>> handlers creating a messaging network for a federation of Axis2 servers.
>> This way we would be able to support
>>
>> - Standalone WS-Notification compliant notification producer and
>> notification consumer
>>
>> - Standalone WS-BrokeredNotification broker
>>
>> - Federation of WS-BrokeredNotification brokers.
>>
>>
>>
>> It would make sense to integrate Savan functionality within Poloka as time
>> goes but not other way around. I think so because Poloka objective is
>> broader than Savan objective in respect to:
>>
>> - Broker support
>>
>> Broker support is defined in WS-Notification and not in WS-Eventing.
>> Although it is possible that once a broker with WS-Eventing interface is
>> created, the picture might change.
>>
>> - Subscription
>>
>> WS-Eventing defines subscription language based on XPath (content-based
>> semantic). WS-Notification defines subscription Filers using Topic Dialects
>> (topic-based semantic), XPath over message content (content-based semantic,
>> same as in WS-Eventing), and resource properties (optional and unclear
>> semantics, needs refinement in the spec).
>>
>> - Matching performance
>>
>> It seems that we can improve performance of XPath matching based on the
>> research done by the PADRES http://research.msrg.utoronto.ca/pub/Padres
>> project. It would be equally applicable to WS-Notification and WS-Eventing.
>> Naweed Tajuddin, a Master student of Prof. Arno Jacobsen, is looking
>> specifically into this issue for his master thesis.
>>
>>
>>
>> What do you think?
>>
>>
>>
>> We are looking for the input and guidance of the Apache community in moving
>> the POLOKA proposal forward. Please help!
>>
>>
>>
>> Regards
>>
>> Serge
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
--
Thank you!
http://blogs.deepal.org
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Re: POLOKA proposal in context of existing Apache projects
Posted by Deepal jayasinghe <de...@gmail.com>.
I think we can keep this as the same level as Sandesha and Ramparrt. I
mean we do not have any modules other than core stuff under Axis2.
Deepal
> Serge,
>
> Unfortunately i won't be able to help much at this time due to time
> pressures. Hopefully one of my fellow PMC members may be interested in
> moving this forward. Best Wishes.
>
> thanks,
> dims
>
> On Fri, Nov 7, 2008 at 3:54 PM, Mankovskii, Serge
> <Se...@ca.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi Davanum,
>>
>>
>>
>> In our search for a Champion and Sponsor for the Poloka proposal
>> http://wiki.apache.org/incubator/PolokaProposal We looked into the Savan,
>> ServiceMix, Axis2, and MUSE projects.
>>
>>
>>
>> We find that it makes most sense, so far, to have Poloka as a project under
>> Axis2. It also makes sense to go into the ServiceMix, that implements
>> WS-Notification already, but objectives of ServiceMix and POLOKA are
>> somewhat different in respect to POLOKA goal to provide a stand-alone
>> reference implementation of the spec. Bringing entire ServiceMix in the
>> picture might be too much. However ServiceMix could benefit from the POLOKA
>> work in the future.
>>
>>
>>
>> Poloka (http://poloka.org) could create an Axis2 module implementing
>> handlers creating a messaging network for a federation of Axis2 servers.
>> This way we would be able to support
>>
>> - Standalone WS-Notification compliant notification producer and
>> notification consumer
>>
>> - Standalone WS-BrokeredNotification broker
>>
>> - Federation of WS-BrokeredNotification brokers.
>>
>>
>>
>> It would make sense to integrate Savan functionality within Poloka as time
>> goes but not other way around. I think so because Poloka objective is
>> broader than Savan objective in respect to:
>>
>> - Broker support
>>
>> Broker support is defined in WS-Notification and not in WS-Eventing.
>> Although it is possible that once a broker with WS-Eventing interface is
>> created, the picture might change.
>>
>> - Subscription
>>
>> WS-Eventing defines subscription language based on XPath (content-based
>> semantic). WS-Notification defines subscription Filers using Topic Dialects
>> (topic-based semantic), XPath over message content (content-based semantic,
>> same as in WS-Eventing), and resource properties (optional and unclear
>> semantics, needs refinement in the spec).
>>
>> - Matching performance
>>
>> It seems that we can improve performance of XPath matching based on the
>> research done by the PADRES http://research.msrg.utoronto.ca/pub/Padres
>> project. It would be equally applicable to WS-Notification and WS-Eventing.
>> Naweed Tajuddin, a Master student of Prof. Arno Jacobsen, is looking
>> specifically into this issue for his master thesis.
>>
>>
>>
>> What do you think?
>>
>>
>>
>> We are looking for the input and guidance of the Apache community in moving
>> the POLOKA proposal forward. Please help!
>>
>>
>>
>> Regards
>>
>> Serge
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
--
Thank you!
http://blogs.deepal.org
Re: POLOKA proposal in context of existing Apache projects
Posted by Davanum Srinivas <da...@gmail.com>.
Serge,
Unfortunately i won't be able to help much at this time due to time
pressures. Hopefully one of my fellow PMC members may be interested in
moving this forward. Best Wishes.
thanks,
dims
On Fri, Nov 7, 2008 at 3:54 PM, Mankovskii, Serge
<Se...@ca.com> wrote:
> Hi Davanum,
>
>
>
> In our search for a Champion and Sponsor for the Poloka proposal
> http://wiki.apache.org/incubator/PolokaProposal We looked into the Savan,
> ServiceMix, Axis2, and MUSE projects.
>
>
>
> We find that it makes most sense, so far, to have Poloka as a project under
> Axis2. It also makes sense to go into the ServiceMix, that implements
> WS-Notification already, but objectives of ServiceMix and POLOKA are
> somewhat different in respect to POLOKA goal to provide a stand-alone
> reference implementation of the spec. Bringing entire ServiceMix in the
> picture might be too much. However ServiceMix could benefit from the POLOKA
> work in the future.
>
>
>
> Poloka (http://poloka.org) could create an Axis2 module implementing
> handlers creating a messaging network for a federation of Axis2 servers.
> This way we would be able to support
>
> - Standalone WS-Notification compliant notification producer and
> notification consumer
>
> - Standalone WS-BrokeredNotification broker
>
> - Federation of WS-BrokeredNotification brokers.
>
>
>
> It would make sense to integrate Savan functionality within Poloka as time
> goes but not other way around. I think so because Poloka objective is
> broader than Savan objective in respect to:
>
> - Broker support
>
> Broker support is defined in WS-Notification and not in WS-Eventing.
> Although it is possible that once a broker with WS-Eventing interface is
> created, the picture might change.
>
> - Subscription
>
> WS-Eventing defines subscription language based on XPath (content-based
> semantic). WS-Notification defines subscription Filers using Topic Dialects
> (topic-based semantic), XPath over message content (content-based semantic,
> same as in WS-Eventing), and resource properties (optional and unclear
> semantics, needs refinement in the spec).
>
> - Matching performance
>
> It seems that we can improve performance of XPath matching based on the
> research done by the PADRES http://research.msrg.utoronto.ca/pub/Padres
> project. It would be equally applicable to WS-Notification and WS-Eventing.
> Naweed Tajuddin, a Master student of Prof. Arno Jacobsen, is looking
> specifically into this issue for his master thesis.
>
>
>
> What do you think?
>
>
>
> We are looking for the input and guidance of the Apache community in moving
> the POLOKA proposal forward. Please help!
>
>
>
> Regards
>
> Serge
>
>
--
Davanum Srinivas :: http://davanum.wordpress.com
RE: POLOKA proposal in context of existing Apache projects
Posted by "Mankovskii, Serge" <Se...@ca.com>.
Hello Guillaume
Yes, this is the idea. Naweed is studying ServiceMix right now with
objective to figure out appropriate way to work WS-BN engine into the
ServiceMix architecture. I think Naweed is writing an overview of how
that can be accomplished. He is planning to post his findings shortly.
I think your suggestion about TLP is right, but first we need to get
into the Incubation. We are looking forward to the voting. Exciting
stuff!
Thank you for the offer to mentor the project! Looking forward to it!
Cheers,
Serge
-----Original Message-----
From: Guillaume Nodet [mailto:gnodet@gmail.com]
Sent: Saturday, November 08, 2008 9:21 PM
To: dev@servicemix.apache.org; savan-dev@ws.apache.org;
general@incubator.apache.org; axis-dev@ws.apache.org
Subject: Re: POLOKA proposal in context of existing Apache projects
I think it would be beneficial for the project to have a clear
distinction between the WS-BrokeredNotification engine and its web
service binding, so that it could be reused without any binding inside
ServiceMix. My understanding is that the POLOKA implementation goes
way beyond what ServiceMix WS-BrokeredNotification engine currently
provides, so ServiceMix may be able to switch to use it.
About the RETE engine, it would also be nice to ensure that this
engine is reusable by itself and may become a subproject on its own
(or maybe even a TLP at some point).
I also think, that aiming for its own TLP may be better for POLOKA,
but it will be to the PPMC to decide when times to graduate comes.
Imho, we should just start a vote at some point on the incubator
mailing list, which should be able to sponsor this project itself
(there is no requirement to have any other TLP so sponsor a podling).
That said, I'd like to offer my help as a mentor on this project.
On Fri, Nov 7, 2008 at 9:54 PM, Mankovskii, Serge
<Se...@ca.com> wrote:
> Hi Davanum,
>
>
>
> In our search for a Champion and Sponsor for the Poloka proposal
> http://wiki.apache.org/incubator/PolokaProposal We looked into the
> Savan, ServiceMix, Axis2, and MUSE projects.
>
>
>
> We find that it makes most sense, so far, to have Poloka as a project
> under Axis2. It also makes sense to go into the ServiceMix, that
> implements WS-Notification already, but objectives of ServiceMix and
> POLOKA are somewhat different in respect to POLOKA goal to provide a
> stand-alone reference implementation of the spec. Bringing entire
> ServiceMix in the picture might be too much. However ServiceMix could
> benefit from the POLOKA work in the future.
>
>
>
> Poloka (http://poloka.org) could create an Axis2 module implementing
> handlers creating a messaging network for a federation of Axis2
servers.
> This way we would be able to support
>
> - Standalone WS-Notification compliant notification producer and
> notification consumer
>
> - Standalone WS-BrokeredNotification broker
>
> - Federation of WS-BrokeredNotification brokers.
>
>
>
> It would make sense to integrate Savan functionality within Poloka as
> time goes but not other way around. I think so because Poloka
objective
> is broader than Savan objective in respect to:
>
> - Broker support
>
> Broker support is defined in WS-Notification and not in WS-Eventing.
> Although it is possible that once a broker with WS-Eventing interface
is
> created, the picture might change.
>
> - Subscription
>
> WS-Eventing defines subscription language based on XPath
(content-based
> semantic). WS-Notification defines subscription Filers using Topic
> Dialects (topic-based semantic), XPath over message content
> (content-based semantic, same as in WS-Eventing), and resource
> properties (optional and unclear semantics, needs refinement in the
> spec).
>
> - Matching performance
>
> It seems that we can improve performance of XPath matching based on
the
> research done by the PADRES
http://research.msrg.utoronto.ca/pub/Padres
> project. It would be equally applicable to WS-Notification and
> WS-Eventing. Naweed Tajuddin, a Master student of Prof. Arno Jacobsen,
> is looking specifically into this issue for his master thesis.
>
>
>
> What do you think?
>
>
>
> We are looking for the input and guidance of the Apache community in
> moving the POLOKA proposal forward. Please help!
>
>
>
> Regards
>
> Serge
>
>
>
>
--
Cheers,
Guillaume Nodet
------------------------
Blog: http://gnodet.blogspot.com/
------------------------
Open Source SOA
http://fusesource.com
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RE: POLOKA proposal in context of existing Apache projects
Posted by "Mankovskii, Serge" <Se...@ca.com>.
Hello Guillaume
Yes, this is the idea. Naweed is studying ServiceMix right now with
objective to figure out appropriate way to work WS-BN engine into the
ServiceMix architecture. I think Naweed is writing an overview of how
that can be accomplished. He is planning to post his findings shortly.
I think your suggestion about TLP is right, but first we need to get
into the Incubation. We are looking forward to the voting. Exciting
stuff!
Thank you for the offer to mentor the project! Looking forward to it!
Cheers,
Serge
-----Original Message-----
From: Guillaume Nodet [mailto:gnodet@gmail.com]
Sent: Saturday, November 08, 2008 9:21 PM
To: dev@servicemix.apache.org; savan-dev@ws.apache.org;
general@incubator.apache.org; axis-dev@ws.apache.org
Subject: Re: POLOKA proposal in context of existing Apache projects
I think it would be beneficial for the project to have a clear
distinction between the WS-BrokeredNotification engine and its web
service binding, so that it could be reused without any binding inside
ServiceMix. My understanding is that the POLOKA implementation goes
way beyond what ServiceMix WS-BrokeredNotification engine currently
provides, so ServiceMix may be able to switch to use it.
About the RETE engine, it would also be nice to ensure that this
engine is reusable by itself and may become a subproject on its own
(or maybe even a TLP at some point).
I also think, that aiming for its own TLP may be better for POLOKA,
but it will be to the PPMC to decide when times to graduate comes.
Imho, we should just start a vote at some point on the incubator
mailing list, which should be able to sponsor this project itself
(there is no requirement to have any other TLP so sponsor a podling).
That said, I'd like to offer my help as a mentor on this project.
On Fri, Nov 7, 2008 at 9:54 PM, Mankovskii, Serge
<Se...@ca.com> wrote:
> Hi Davanum,
>
>
>
> In our search for a Champion and Sponsor for the Poloka proposal
> http://wiki.apache.org/incubator/PolokaProposal We looked into the
> Savan, ServiceMix, Axis2, and MUSE projects.
>
>
>
> We find that it makes most sense, so far, to have Poloka as a project
> under Axis2. It also makes sense to go into the ServiceMix, that
> implements WS-Notification already, but objectives of ServiceMix and
> POLOKA are somewhat different in respect to POLOKA goal to provide a
> stand-alone reference implementation of the spec. Bringing entire
> ServiceMix in the picture might be too much. However ServiceMix could
> benefit from the POLOKA work in the future.
>
>
>
> Poloka (http://poloka.org) could create an Axis2 module implementing
> handlers creating a messaging network for a federation of Axis2
servers.
> This way we would be able to support
>
> - Standalone WS-Notification compliant notification producer and
> notification consumer
>
> - Standalone WS-BrokeredNotification broker
>
> - Federation of WS-BrokeredNotification brokers.
>
>
>
> It would make sense to integrate Savan functionality within Poloka as
> time goes but not other way around. I think so because Poloka
objective
> is broader than Savan objective in respect to:
>
> - Broker support
>
> Broker support is defined in WS-Notification and not in WS-Eventing.
> Although it is possible that once a broker with WS-Eventing interface
is
> created, the picture might change.
>
> - Subscription
>
> WS-Eventing defines subscription language based on XPath
(content-based
> semantic). WS-Notification defines subscription Filers using Topic
> Dialects (topic-based semantic), XPath over message content
> (content-based semantic, same as in WS-Eventing), and resource
> properties (optional and unclear semantics, needs refinement in the
> spec).
>
> - Matching performance
>
> It seems that we can improve performance of XPath matching based on
the
> research done by the PADRES
http://research.msrg.utoronto.ca/pub/Padres
> project. It would be equally applicable to WS-Notification and
> WS-Eventing. Naweed Tajuddin, a Master student of Prof. Arno Jacobsen,
> is looking specifically into this issue for his master thesis.
>
>
>
> What do you think?
>
>
>
> We are looking for the input and guidance of the Apache community in
> moving the POLOKA proposal forward. Please help!
>
>
>
> Regards
>
> Serge
>
>
>
>
--
Cheers,
Guillaume Nodet
------------------------
Blog: http://gnodet.blogspot.com/
------------------------
Open Source SOA
http://fusesource.com
---------------------------------------------------------------------
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---------------------------------------------------------------------
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RE: POLOKA proposal in context of existing Apache projects
Posted by "Mankovskii, Serge" <Se...@ca.com>.
Hello Guillaume
Yes, this is the idea. Naweed is studying ServiceMix right now with
objective to figure out appropriate way to work WS-BN engine into the
ServiceMix architecture. I think Naweed is writing an overview of how
that can be accomplished. He is planning to post his findings shortly.
I think your suggestion about TLP is right, but first we need to get
into the Incubation. We are looking forward to the voting. Exciting
stuff!
Thank you for the offer to mentor the project! Looking forward to it!
Cheers,
Serge
-----Original Message-----
From: Guillaume Nodet [mailto:gnodet@gmail.com]
Sent: Saturday, November 08, 2008 9:21 PM
To: dev@servicemix.apache.org; savan-dev@ws.apache.org;
general@incubator.apache.org; axis-dev@ws.apache.org
Subject: Re: POLOKA proposal in context of existing Apache projects
I think it would be beneficial for the project to have a clear
distinction between the WS-BrokeredNotification engine and its web
service binding, so that it could be reused without any binding inside
ServiceMix. My understanding is that the POLOKA implementation goes
way beyond what ServiceMix WS-BrokeredNotification engine currently
provides, so ServiceMix may be able to switch to use it.
About the RETE engine, it would also be nice to ensure that this
engine is reusable by itself and may become a subproject on its own
(or maybe even a TLP at some point).
I also think, that aiming for its own TLP may be better for POLOKA,
but it will be to the PPMC to decide when times to graduate comes.
Imho, we should just start a vote at some point on the incubator
mailing list, which should be able to sponsor this project itself
(there is no requirement to have any other TLP so sponsor a podling).
That said, I'd like to offer my help as a mentor on this project.
On Fri, Nov 7, 2008 at 9:54 PM, Mankovskii, Serge
<Se...@ca.com> wrote:
> Hi Davanum,
>
>
>
> In our search for a Champion and Sponsor for the Poloka proposal
> http://wiki.apache.org/incubator/PolokaProposal We looked into the
> Savan, ServiceMix, Axis2, and MUSE projects.
>
>
>
> We find that it makes most sense, so far, to have Poloka as a project
> under Axis2. It also makes sense to go into the ServiceMix, that
> implements WS-Notification already, but objectives of ServiceMix and
> POLOKA are somewhat different in respect to POLOKA goal to provide a
> stand-alone reference implementation of the spec. Bringing entire
> ServiceMix in the picture might be too much. However ServiceMix could
> benefit from the POLOKA work in the future.
>
>
>
> Poloka (http://poloka.org) could create an Axis2 module implementing
> handlers creating a messaging network for a federation of Axis2
servers.
> This way we would be able to support
>
> - Standalone WS-Notification compliant notification producer and
> notification consumer
>
> - Standalone WS-BrokeredNotification broker
>
> - Federation of WS-BrokeredNotification brokers.
>
>
>
> It would make sense to integrate Savan functionality within Poloka as
> time goes but not other way around. I think so because Poloka
objective
> is broader than Savan objective in respect to:
>
> - Broker support
>
> Broker support is defined in WS-Notification and not in WS-Eventing.
> Although it is possible that once a broker with WS-Eventing interface
is
> created, the picture might change.
>
> - Subscription
>
> WS-Eventing defines subscription language based on XPath
(content-based
> semantic). WS-Notification defines subscription Filers using Topic
> Dialects (topic-based semantic), XPath over message content
> (content-based semantic, same as in WS-Eventing), and resource
> properties (optional and unclear semantics, needs refinement in the
> spec).
>
> - Matching performance
>
> It seems that we can improve performance of XPath matching based on
the
> research done by the PADRES
http://research.msrg.utoronto.ca/pub/Padres
> project. It would be equally applicable to WS-Notification and
> WS-Eventing. Naweed Tajuddin, a Master student of Prof. Arno Jacobsen,
> is looking specifically into this issue for his master thesis.
>
>
>
> What do you think?
>
>
>
> We are looking for the input and guidance of the Apache community in
> moving the POLOKA proposal forward. Please help!
>
>
>
> Regards
>
> Serge
>
>
>
>
--
Cheers,
Guillaume Nodet
------------------------
Blog: http://gnodet.blogspot.com/
------------------------
Open Source SOA
http://fusesource.com
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Re: POLOKA proposal in context of existing Apache projects
Posted by Guillaume Nodet <gn...@gmail.com>.
I think it would be beneficial for the project to have a clear
distinction between the WS-BrokeredNotification engine and its web
service binding, so that it could be reused without any binding inside
ServiceMix. My understanding is that the POLOKA implementation goes
way beyond what ServiceMix WS-BrokeredNotification engine currently
provides, so ServiceMix may be able to switch to use it.
About the RETE engine, it would also be nice to ensure that this
engine is reusable by itself and may become a subproject on its own
(or maybe even a TLP at some point).
I also think, that aiming for its own TLP may be better for POLOKA,
but it will be to the PPMC to decide when times to graduate comes.
Imho, we should just start a vote at some point on the incubator
mailing list, which should be able to sponsor this project itself
(there is no requirement to have any other TLP so sponsor a podling).
That said, I'd like to offer my help as a mentor on this project.
On Fri, Nov 7, 2008 at 9:54 PM, Mankovskii, Serge
<Se...@ca.com> wrote:
> Hi Davanum,
>
>
>
> In our search for a Champion and Sponsor for the Poloka proposal
> http://wiki.apache.org/incubator/PolokaProposal We looked into the
> Savan, ServiceMix, Axis2, and MUSE projects.
>
>
>
> We find that it makes most sense, so far, to have Poloka as a project
> under Axis2. It also makes sense to go into the ServiceMix, that
> implements WS-Notification already, but objectives of ServiceMix and
> POLOKA are somewhat different in respect to POLOKA goal to provide a
> stand-alone reference implementation of the spec. Bringing entire
> ServiceMix in the picture might be too much. However ServiceMix could
> benefit from the POLOKA work in the future.
>
>
>
> Poloka (http://poloka.org) could create an Axis2 module implementing
> handlers creating a messaging network for a federation of Axis2 servers.
> This way we would be able to support
>
> - Standalone WS-Notification compliant notification producer and
> notification consumer
>
> - Standalone WS-BrokeredNotification broker
>
> - Federation of WS-BrokeredNotification brokers.
>
>
>
> It would make sense to integrate Savan functionality within Poloka as
> time goes but not other way around. I think so because Poloka objective
> is broader than Savan objective in respect to:
>
> - Broker support
>
> Broker support is defined in WS-Notification and not in WS-Eventing.
> Although it is possible that once a broker with WS-Eventing interface is
> created, the picture might change.
>
> - Subscription
>
> WS-Eventing defines subscription language based on XPath (content-based
> semantic). WS-Notification defines subscription Filers using Topic
> Dialects (topic-based semantic), XPath over message content
> (content-based semantic, same as in WS-Eventing), and resource
> properties (optional and unclear semantics, needs refinement in the
> spec).
>
> - Matching performance
>
> It seems that we can improve performance of XPath matching based on the
> research done by the PADRES http://research.msrg.utoronto.ca/pub/Padres
> project. It would be equally applicable to WS-Notification and
> WS-Eventing. Naweed Tajuddin, a Master student of Prof. Arno Jacobsen,
> is looking specifically into this issue for his master thesis.
>
>
>
> What do you think?
>
>
>
> We are looking for the input and guidance of the Apache community in
> moving the POLOKA proposal forward. Please help!
>
>
>
> Regards
>
> Serge
>
>
>
>
--
Cheers,
Guillaume Nodet
------------------------
Blog: http://gnodet.blogspot.com/
------------------------
Open Source SOA
http://fusesource.com
Re: POLOKA proposal in context of existing Apache projects
Posted by Guillaume Nodet <gn...@gmail.com>.
I think it would be beneficial for the project to have a clear
distinction between the WS-BrokeredNotification engine and its web
service binding, so that it could be reused without any binding inside
ServiceMix. My understanding is that the POLOKA implementation goes
way beyond what ServiceMix WS-BrokeredNotification engine currently
provides, so ServiceMix may be able to switch to use it.
About the RETE engine, it would also be nice to ensure that this
engine is reusable by itself and may become a subproject on its own
(or maybe even a TLP at some point).
I also think, that aiming for its own TLP may be better for POLOKA,
but it will be to the PPMC to decide when times to graduate comes.
Imho, we should just start a vote at some point on the incubator
mailing list, which should be able to sponsor this project itself
(there is no requirement to have any other TLP so sponsor a podling).
That said, I'd like to offer my help as a mentor on this project.
On Fri, Nov 7, 2008 at 9:54 PM, Mankovskii, Serge
<Se...@ca.com> wrote:
> Hi Davanum,
>
>
>
> In our search for a Champion and Sponsor for the Poloka proposal
> http://wiki.apache.org/incubator/PolokaProposal We looked into the
> Savan, ServiceMix, Axis2, and MUSE projects.
>
>
>
> We find that it makes most sense, so far, to have Poloka as a project
> under Axis2. It also makes sense to go into the ServiceMix, that
> implements WS-Notification already, but objectives of ServiceMix and
> POLOKA are somewhat different in respect to POLOKA goal to provide a
> stand-alone reference implementation of the spec. Bringing entire
> ServiceMix in the picture might be too much. However ServiceMix could
> benefit from the POLOKA work in the future.
>
>
>
> Poloka (http://poloka.org) could create an Axis2 module implementing
> handlers creating a messaging network for a federation of Axis2 servers.
> This way we would be able to support
>
> - Standalone WS-Notification compliant notification producer and
> notification consumer
>
> - Standalone WS-BrokeredNotification broker
>
> - Federation of WS-BrokeredNotification brokers.
>
>
>
> It would make sense to integrate Savan functionality within Poloka as
> time goes but not other way around. I think so because Poloka objective
> is broader than Savan objective in respect to:
>
> - Broker support
>
> Broker support is defined in WS-Notification and not in WS-Eventing.
> Although it is possible that once a broker with WS-Eventing interface is
> created, the picture might change.
>
> - Subscription
>
> WS-Eventing defines subscription language based on XPath (content-based
> semantic). WS-Notification defines subscription Filers using Topic
> Dialects (topic-based semantic), XPath over message content
> (content-based semantic, same as in WS-Eventing), and resource
> properties (optional and unclear semantics, needs refinement in the
> spec).
>
> - Matching performance
>
> It seems that we can improve performance of XPath matching based on the
> research done by the PADRES http://research.msrg.utoronto.ca/pub/Padres
> project. It would be equally applicable to WS-Notification and
> WS-Eventing. Naweed Tajuddin, a Master student of Prof. Arno Jacobsen,
> is looking specifically into this issue for his master thesis.
>
>
>
> What do you think?
>
>
>
> We are looking for the input and guidance of the Apache community in
> moving the POLOKA proposal forward. Please help!
>
>
>
> Regards
>
> Serge
>
>
>
>
--
Cheers,
Guillaume Nodet
------------------------
Blog: http://gnodet.blogspot.com/
------------------------
Open Source SOA
http://fusesource.com
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
Re: POLOKA proposal in context of existing Apache projects
Posted by Davanum Srinivas <da...@gmail.com>.
Serge,
Unfortunately i won't be able to help much at this time due to time
pressures. Hopefully one of my fellow PMC members may be interested in
moving this forward. Best Wishes.
thanks,
dims
On Fri, Nov 7, 2008 at 3:54 PM, Mankovskii, Serge
<Se...@ca.com> wrote:
> Hi Davanum,
>
>
>
> In our search for a Champion and Sponsor for the Poloka proposal
> http://wiki.apache.org/incubator/PolokaProposal We looked into the Savan,
> ServiceMix, Axis2, and MUSE projects.
>
>
>
> We find that it makes most sense, so far, to have Poloka as a project under
> Axis2. It also makes sense to go into the ServiceMix, that implements
> WS-Notification already, but objectives of ServiceMix and POLOKA are
> somewhat different in respect to POLOKA goal to provide a stand-alone
> reference implementation of the spec. Bringing entire ServiceMix in the
> picture might be too much. However ServiceMix could benefit from the POLOKA
> work in the future.
>
>
>
> Poloka (http://poloka.org) could create an Axis2 module implementing
> handlers creating a messaging network for a federation of Axis2 servers.
> This way we would be able to support
>
> - Standalone WS-Notification compliant notification producer and
> notification consumer
>
> - Standalone WS-BrokeredNotification broker
>
> - Federation of WS-BrokeredNotification brokers.
>
>
>
> It would make sense to integrate Savan functionality within Poloka as time
> goes but not other way around. I think so because Poloka objective is
> broader than Savan objective in respect to:
>
> - Broker support
>
> Broker support is defined in WS-Notification and not in WS-Eventing.
> Although it is possible that once a broker with WS-Eventing interface is
> created, the picture might change.
>
> - Subscription
>
> WS-Eventing defines subscription language based on XPath (content-based
> semantic). WS-Notification defines subscription Filers using Topic Dialects
> (topic-based semantic), XPath over message content (content-based semantic,
> same as in WS-Eventing), and resource properties (optional and unclear
> semantics, needs refinement in the spec).
>
> - Matching performance
>
> It seems that we can improve performance of XPath matching based on the
> research done by the PADRES http://research.msrg.utoronto.ca/pub/Padres
> project. It would be equally applicable to WS-Notification and WS-Eventing.
> Naweed Tajuddin, a Master student of Prof. Arno Jacobsen, is looking
> specifically into this issue for his master thesis.
>
>
>
> What do you think?
>
>
>
> We are looking for the input and guidance of the Apache community in moving
> the POLOKA proposal forward. Please help!
>
>
>
> Regards
>
> Serge
>
>
--
Davanum Srinivas :: http://davanum.wordpress.com
Re: POLOKA proposal in context of existing Apache projects
Posted by Davanum Srinivas <da...@gmail.com>.
Serge,
Unfortunately i won't be able to help much at this time due to time
pressures. Hopefully one of my fellow PMC members may be interested in
moving this forward. Best Wishes.
thanks,
dims
On Fri, Nov 7, 2008 at 3:54 PM, Mankovskii, Serge
<Se...@ca.com> wrote:
> Hi Davanum,
>
>
>
> In our search for a Champion and Sponsor for the Poloka proposal
> http://wiki.apache.org/incubator/PolokaProposal We looked into the Savan,
> ServiceMix, Axis2, and MUSE projects.
>
>
>
> We find that it makes most sense, so far, to have Poloka as a project under
> Axis2. It also makes sense to go into the ServiceMix, that implements
> WS-Notification already, but objectives of ServiceMix and POLOKA are
> somewhat different in respect to POLOKA goal to provide a stand-alone
> reference implementation of the spec. Bringing entire ServiceMix in the
> picture might be too much. However ServiceMix could benefit from the POLOKA
> work in the future.
>
>
>
> Poloka (http://poloka.org) could create an Axis2 module implementing
> handlers creating a messaging network for a federation of Axis2 servers.
> This way we would be able to support
>
> - Standalone WS-Notification compliant notification producer and
> notification consumer
>
> - Standalone WS-BrokeredNotification broker
>
> - Federation of WS-BrokeredNotification brokers.
>
>
>
> It would make sense to integrate Savan functionality within Poloka as time
> goes but not other way around. I think so because Poloka objective is
> broader than Savan objective in respect to:
>
> - Broker support
>
> Broker support is defined in WS-Notification and not in WS-Eventing.
> Although it is possible that once a broker with WS-Eventing interface is
> created, the picture might change.
>
> - Subscription
>
> WS-Eventing defines subscription language based on XPath (content-based
> semantic). WS-Notification defines subscription Filers using Topic Dialects
> (topic-based semantic), XPath over message content (content-based semantic,
> same as in WS-Eventing), and resource properties (optional and unclear
> semantics, needs refinement in the spec).
>
> - Matching performance
>
> It seems that we can improve performance of XPath matching based on the
> research done by the PADRES http://research.msrg.utoronto.ca/pub/Padres
> project. It would be equally applicable to WS-Notification and WS-Eventing.
> Naweed Tajuddin, a Master student of Prof. Arno Jacobsen, is looking
> specifically into this issue for his master thesis.
>
>
>
> What do you think?
>
>
>
> We are looking for the input and guidance of the Apache community in moving
> the POLOKA proposal forward. Please help!
>
>
>
> Regards
>
> Serge
>
>
--
Davanum Srinivas :: http://davanum.wordpress.com
---------------------------------------------------------------------
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Re: POLOKA proposal in context of existing Apache projects
Posted by Davanum Srinivas <da...@gmail.com>.
Serge,
Unfortunately i won't be able to help much at this time due to time
pressures. Hopefully one of my fellow PMC members may be interested in
moving this forward. Best Wishes.
thanks,
dims
On Fri, Nov 7, 2008 at 3:54 PM, Mankovskii, Serge
<Se...@ca.com> wrote:
> Hi Davanum,
>
>
>
> In our search for a Champion and Sponsor for the Poloka proposal
> http://wiki.apache.org/incubator/PolokaProposal We looked into the Savan,
> ServiceMix, Axis2, and MUSE projects.
>
>
>
> We find that it makes most sense, so far, to have Poloka as a project under
> Axis2. It also makes sense to go into the ServiceMix, that implements
> WS-Notification already, but objectives of ServiceMix and POLOKA are
> somewhat different in respect to POLOKA goal to provide a stand-alone
> reference implementation of the spec. Bringing entire ServiceMix in the
> picture might be too much. However ServiceMix could benefit from the POLOKA
> work in the future.
>
>
>
> Poloka (http://poloka.org) could create an Axis2 module implementing
> handlers creating a messaging network for a federation of Axis2 servers.
> This way we would be able to support
>
> - Standalone WS-Notification compliant notification producer and
> notification consumer
>
> - Standalone WS-BrokeredNotification broker
>
> - Federation of WS-BrokeredNotification brokers.
>
>
>
> It would make sense to integrate Savan functionality within Poloka as time
> goes but not other way around. I think so because Poloka objective is
> broader than Savan objective in respect to:
>
> - Broker support
>
> Broker support is defined in WS-Notification and not in WS-Eventing.
> Although it is possible that once a broker with WS-Eventing interface is
> created, the picture might change.
>
> - Subscription
>
> WS-Eventing defines subscription language based on XPath (content-based
> semantic). WS-Notification defines subscription Filers using Topic Dialects
> (topic-based semantic), XPath over message content (content-based semantic,
> same as in WS-Eventing), and resource properties (optional and unclear
> semantics, needs refinement in the spec).
>
> - Matching performance
>
> It seems that we can improve performance of XPath matching based on the
> research done by the PADRES http://research.msrg.utoronto.ca/pub/Padres
> project. It would be equally applicable to WS-Notification and WS-Eventing.
> Naweed Tajuddin, a Master student of Prof. Arno Jacobsen, is looking
> specifically into this issue for his master thesis.
>
>
>
> What do you think?
>
>
>
> We are looking for the input and guidance of the Apache community in moving
> the POLOKA proposal forward. Please help!
>
>
>
> Regards
>
> Serge
>
>
--
Davanum Srinivas :: http://davanum.wordpress.com
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