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Posted to dev@cloudstack.apache.org by Radhika Puthiyetath <ra...@citrix.com> on 2012/11/12 15:32:52 UTC
Student Community ?
Hello Community leaders,
I have not seen much discussion around developing a student community for Apache CloudStack. I could also be wrong.
Where are we standing in terms of student contributions?
If we have not yet think about it, let's put some effort towards encouraging student participation in the community activities.
Could we start with inviting students to code CloudStack- an Apache CloudStack Summer of Code ?
Probably, let's plan having our Apache CloudStack Meetups in colleges and education institutions, that way we can help them build interest in CloudStack.
Looking forward to your suggestions
-Radhika
RE: Student Community ?
Posted by Rohit Yadav <ro...@citrix.com>.
Let me slip in some plans, though we only wanted to do them first and then share. Only thing is that we want to make these events free for everyone and arranging them in our free time makes them tricky.
Prasanna would be helping us arranging meetups in IIIT-Hyderabad (his alma mater) and I'm planning to hold an online meetup (which got postponed twice already) on G+ hangout with my college foss group (https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups#!forum/foss-itbhu) or probably go there as an invited speaker in their upcoming technical festival in jan-feb. Probably we can all hold online meetups for the world, much like the ubuntu community does (http://ubuntuonair.com/).
Lastly, +1 to GSoC '13 I was thinking to propose this around Jan, but good we brought this up soon.
Regards.
________________________________________
From: Radhika Puthiyetath [radhika.puthiyetath@citrix.com]
Sent: Monday, November 12, 2012 8:02 PM
To: cloudstack-dev@incubator.apache.org
Subject: Student Community ?
Hello Community leaders,
I have not seen much discussion around developing a student community for Apache CloudStack. I could also be wrong.
Where are we standing in terms of student contributions?
If we have not yet think about it, let's put some effort towards encouraging student participation in the community activities.
Could we start with inviting students to code CloudStack- an Apache CloudStack Summer of Code ?
Probably, let's plan having our Apache CloudStack Meetups in colleges and education institutions, that way we can help them build interest in CloudStack.
Looking forward to your suggestions
-Radhika
Re: Student Community ?
Posted by Joe Brockmeier <jz...@zonker.net>.
On Mon, Nov 12, 2012, at 08:35 AM, Rajesh Battala wrote:
> In the next meetup we can think of involving more students by conducting
> a workshop in a college venue.
> We can encourage final year students to take up CS projects and we can
> help them.
I think this is a great idea, but it's a lot of mentoring time. A LOT.
Assume that any task you're mentoring is going to take twice as long as
doing it yourself.
Not discouraging - just want to make sure we are speaking realistically.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Radhika Puthiyetath [mailto:radhika.puthiyetath@citrix.com]
> Sent: Monday, November 12, 2012 8:03 PM
> To: cloudstack-dev@incubator.apache.org
> Subject: Student Community ?
>
> Hello Community leaders,
>
> I have not seen much discussion around developing a student community for
> Apache CloudStack. I could also be wrong.
>
> Where are we standing in terms of student contributions?
>
> If we have not yet think about it, let's put some effort towards
> encouraging student participation in the community activities.
>
> Could we start with inviting students to code CloudStack- an Apache
> CloudStack Summer of Code ?
>
> Probably, let's plan having our Apache CloudStack Meetups in colleges and
> education institutions, that way we can help them build interest in
> CloudStack.
>
> Looking forward to your suggestions
> -Radhika
>
>
>
--
Joe Brockmeier
jzb@zonker.net
Twitter: @jzb
http://www.dissociatedpress.net/
RE: Student Community ?
Posted by Rajesh Battala <ra...@citrix.com>.
In the next meetup we can think of involving more students by conducting a workshop in a college venue.
We can encourage final year students to take up CS projects and we can help them.
-----Original Message-----
From: Radhika Puthiyetath [mailto:radhika.puthiyetath@citrix.com]
Sent: Monday, November 12, 2012 8:03 PM
To: cloudstack-dev@incubator.apache.org
Subject: Student Community ?
Hello Community leaders,
I have not seen much discussion around developing a student community for Apache CloudStack. I could also be wrong.
Where are we standing in terms of student contributions?
If we have not yet think about it, let's put some effort towards encouraging student participation in the community activities.
Could we start with inviting students to code CloudStack- an Apache CloudStack Summer of Code ?
Probably, let's plan having our Apache CloudStack Meetups in colleges and education institutions, that way we can help them build interest in CloudStack.
Looking forward to your suggestions
-Radhika
RE: Student Community ?
Posted by Abhijith Chandrashekar <Ab...@citrix.com>.
Sebastien,
That's great. I wasn't aware of such a program at University of Florida. It being my alma mater, I would love to participate in any which way I can to promote the event to my peers at UF.
Thanks,
Abhijith
-----Original Message-----
From: Sebastien Goasguen [mailto:runseb@gmail.com]
Sent: Monday, November 12, 2012 9:35 AM
To: cloudstack-dev@incubator.apache.org
Subject: Re: Student Community ?
Hi,
There are lots of things that we can do with "Students" besides GSoC. Definitely talking at universities and in a student linux/java user group is one of them.
In general, I would say that students are shy with engaging a community of professionals, and may not be up to submitting patches, talking on lists, and IRC. You can find a few students here and there who would give valuable contribution to CloudStack but they will be few.
That said engaging students is a worthy endeavor. I was thinking we could develop an "EDU" area similar to what Google has done with http://code.google.com/edu , there www.google.com/edu is amazing but a bit far beyond reach right now.
Quite a bit of our content (docs, slideshare, youtube) could be refactored to provide useful lessons plans around cloud computing, and provide tutorials. This is why for example I am very interested in DevCloud, it's a dev environment but also a great teaching tool.
PS: Two examples of current collaboration with universities:
*I have been working with University of Florida to help them put CloudStack on the FutureGrid (A US project): https://portal.futuregrid.org/projects/250
Some of you might meet Mauricio Tsugawa at the collaboration conference.
*I am also working with a french engineering school who is using cloudstack as a capstone project: http://btrcloudstack.free.fr/btrCloudStack.php
I would be happy to work with anyone interested in this and help coordinate an education plan for our community.
-Sebastien
On Nov 12, 2012, at 5:14 PM, Alex Karasulu <ak...@apache.org> wrote:
> On Mon, Nov 12, 2012 at 5:08 PM, David Nalley <da...@gnsa.us> wrote:
>
>>> Before going too deep into incentive programs, though, I'd encourage
>>> checking out Stormy Peters' talk: "Would you do it again for free?"
>>>
>>> http://stormyscorner.com/would-you-do-it-again-for-free
>>>
>>> tl;dr - incentive programs don't always wind up generating long-term
>>> involvement.
>>
>>
>> This is my concern with GSoC - while it has produced some rockstars
>> (and we even have someone who was involved in GSoC working on
>> CloudStack, my experience is that unless the folks were previously
>> involved with a project before GSoC they are gone after the fact,
>> which is a huge loss for the investment needed.
>>
>> In general mentoring new folks is a huge timesink:
>>
>>
> For the same reasons some sited above and below I feel the same. I've
> seen 0% retention for GSoC students on the 4-5 projects I've seen take
> part in GSoC. This is unfortunate indeed.
>
>
>> If you look at the statistics pointed out by Dave Neary:
>> in the first half of this blog post:
>> http://blogs.gnome.org/bolsh/2011/05/31/effective-mentoring-programs/
>> You'll note that generally speaking they assume only 25% of mentored
>> individuals will stay around, and that for the project mentoring
>> students appears to be a net loss.
>>
>> My personal experience with students in Fedora has been less than
>> encouraging, to the point I stopped my efforts in that area
>> altogether. My experience was that the people who were interested
>> would come looking on their own, would be easy to help, and would
>> stay around much longer; going out recruiting, particularly among
>> student populations (people who by definition are going through lots
>> of change in a very rapid time period, have shifting priorities, etc)
>> rarely yields any long term (more than a semester) contributors.
>>
>> Not trying to discourage you (or even say you shouldn't do it) just a
>> heads up on some of the experiences of others.
>>
>
> Ditto.
>
> --
> Best Regards,
> -- Alex
Re: Student Community ?
Posted by Sebastien Goasguen <ru...@gmail.com>.
Hi,
There are lots of things that we can do with "Students" besides GSoC. Definitely talking at universities and in a student linux/java user group is one of them.
In general, I would say that students are shy with engaging a community of professionals, and may not be up to submitting patches, talking on lists, and IRC. You can find a few students here and there who would give valuable contribution to CloudStack but they will be few.
That said engaging students is a worthy endeavor. I was thinking we could develop an "EDU" area similar to what Google has done with http://code.google.com/edu , there www.google.com/edu is amazing but a bit far beyond reach right now.
Quite a bit of our content (docs, slideshare, youtube) could be refactored to provide useful lessons plans around cloud computing, and provide tutorials. This is why for example I am very interested in DevCloud, it's a dev environment but also a great teaching tool.
PS: Two examples of current collaboration with universities:
*I have been working with University of Florida to help them put CloudStack on the FutureGrid (A US project): https://portal.futuregrid.org/projects/250
Some of you might meet Mauricio Tsugawa at the collaboration conference.
*I am also working with a french engineering school who is using cloudstack as a capstone project: http://btrcloudstack.free.fr/btrCloudStack.php
I would be happy to work with anyone interested in this and help coordinate an education plan for our community.
-Sebastien
On Nov 12, 2012, at 5:14 PM, Alex Karasulu <ak...@apache.org> wrote:
> On Mon, Nov 12, 2012 at 5:08 PM, David Nalley <da...@gnsa.us> wrote:
>
>>> Before going too deep into incentive programs, though, I'd encourage
>>> checking out Stormy Peters' talk: "Would you do it again for free?"
>>>
>>> http://stormyscorner.com/would-you-do-it-again-for-free
>>>
>>> tl;dr - incentive programs don't always wind up generating long-term
>>> involvement.
>>
>>
>> This is my concern with GSoC - while it has produced some rockstars
>> (and we even have someone who was involved in GSoC working on
>> CloudStack, my experience is that unless the folks were previously
>> involved with a project before GSoC they are gone after the fact,
>> which is a huge loss for the investment needed.
>>
>> In general mentoring new folks is a huge timesink:
>>
>>
> For the same reasons some sited above and below I feel the same. I've seen
> 0% retention for GSoC students on the 4-5 projects I've seen take part in
> GSoC. This is unfortunate indeed.
>
>
>> If you look at the statistics pointed out by Dave Neary:
>> in the first half of this blog post:
>> http://blogs.gnome.org/bolsh/2011/05/31/effective-mentoring-programs/
>> You'll note that generally speaking they assume only 25% of mentored
>> individuals will stay around, and that for the project mentoring
>> students appears to be a net loss.
>>
>> My personal experience with students in Fedora has been less than
>> encouraging, to the point I stopped my efforts in that area
>> altogether. My experience was that the people who were interested
>> would come looking on their own, would be easy to help, and would stay
>> around much longer; going out recruiting, particularly among student
>> populations (people who by definition are going through lots of change
>> in a very rapid time period, have shifting priorities, etc) rarely
>> yields any long term (more than a semester) contributors.
>>
>> Not trying to discourage you (or even say you shouldn't do it) just a
>> heads up on some of the experiences of others.
>>
>
> Ditto.
>
> --
> Best Regards,
> -- Alex
Re: Student Community ?
Posted by Alex Karasulu <ak...@apache.org>.
On Mon, Nov 12, 2012 at 5:08 PM, David Nalley <da...@gnsa.us> wrote:
> > Before going too deep into incentive programs, though, I'd encourage
> > checking out Stormy Peters' talk: "Would you do it again for free?"
> >
> > http://stormyscorner.com/would-you-do-it-again-for-free
> >
> > tl;dr - incentive programs don't always wind up generating long-term
> > involvement.
>
>
> This is my concern with GSoC - while it has produced some rockstars
> (and we even have someone who was involved in GSoC working on
> CloudStack, my experience is that unless the folks were previously
> involved with a project before GSoC they are gone after the fact,
> which is a huge loss for the investment needed.
>
> In general mentoring new folks is a huge timesink:
>
>
For the same reasons some sited above and below I feel the same. I've seen
0% retention for GSoC students on the 4-5 projects I've seen take part in
GSoC. This is unfortunate indeed.
> If you look at the statistics pointed out by Dave Neary:
> in the first half of this blog post:
> http://blogs.gnome.org/bolsh/2011/05/31/effective-mentoring-programs/
> You'll note that generally speaking they assume only 25% of mentored
> individuals will stay around, and that for the project mentoring
> students appears to be a net loss.
>
> My personal experience with students in Fedora has been less than
> encouraging, to the point I stopped my efforts in that area
> altogether. My experience was that the people who were interested
> would come looking on their own, would be easy to help, and would stay
> around much longer; going out recruiting, particularly among student
> populations (people who by definition are going through lots of change
> in a very rapid time period, have shifting priorities, etc) rarely
> yields any long term (more than a semester) contributors.
>
> Not trying to discourage you (or even say you shouldn't do it) just a
> heads up on some of the experiences of others.
>
Ditto.
--
Best Regards,
-- Alex
Re: Student Community ?
Posted by David Nalley <da...@gnsa.us>.
> Before going too deep into incentive programs, though, I'd encourage
> checking out Stormy Peters' talk: "Would you do it again for free?"
>
> http://stormyscorner.com/would-you-do-it-again-for-free
>
> tl;dr - incentive programs don't always wind up generating long-term
> involvement.
This is my concern with GSoC - while it has produced some rockstars
(and we even have someone who was involved in GSoC working on
CloudStack, my experience is that unless the folks were previously
involved with a project before GSoC they are gone after the fact,
which is a huge loss for the investment needed.
In general mentoring new folks is a huge timesink:
If you look at the statistics pointed out by Dave Neary:
in the first half of this blog post:
http://blogs.gnome.org/bolsh/2011/05/31/effective-mentoring-programs/
You'll note that generally speaking they assume only 25% of mentored
individuals will stay around, and that for the project mentoring
students appears to be a net loss.
My personal experience with students in Fedora has been less than
encouraging, to the point I stopped my efforts in that area
altogether. My experience was that the people who were interested
would come looking on their own, would be easy to help, and would stay
around much longer; going out recruiting, particularly among student
populations (people who by definition are going through lots of change
in a very rapid time period, have shifting priorities, etc) rarely
yields any long term (more than a semester) contributors.
Not trying to discourage you (or even say you shouldn't do it) just a
heads up on some of the experiences of others.
--David
Re: Student Community ?
Posted by Joe Brockmeier <jz...@zonker.net>.
On Mon, Nov 12, 2012, at 08:32 AM, Radhika Puthiyetath wrote:
> Could we start with inviting students to code CloudStack- an Apache
> CloudStack Summer of Code ?
So, Summer of Code usually has an incentive (around $5K per student, if
I recall correctly).
Next year, when Google does Summer of Code I did plan to try to get
CloudStack accepted as a mentoring organization - but I don't think
they'll start asking for organizations before February or March. (I've
worked with GSOC before, when I was with openSUSE - it is a good
program.)
We *should* reach out to students before then, though - it's better to
have a few students who are involved with the project already.
Before going too deep into incentive programs, though, I'd encourage
checking out Stormy Peters' talk: "Would you do it again for free?"
http://stormyscorner.com/would-you-do-it-again-for-free
tl;dr - incentive programs don't always wind up generating long-term
involvement.
Best,
Joe
--
Joe Brockmeier
jzb@zonker.net
Twitter: @jzb
http://www.dissociatedpress.net/