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Posted to dev@calcite.apache.org by Julian Hyde <jh...@apache.org> on 2022/07/03 23:46:29 UTC
[DISCUSS] How we choose a PMC chair
As you know, Calcite has a tradition of choosing a new PMC chair (VP)
each year, around the anniversary of the project's graduation[1][2]. I
think this is a great tradition, but I'd like to discuss an
improvement to that process.
(I'm starting the conversation now - several months after the previous
vote, and several months before the next - so that it's clear that I
am not criticizing the process or the outcome or previous votes.)
I've noticed that the outgoing chair sends an email on dev@ saying
words to the following effect:
I think Xyz would be a great person to succeed me.
What do you all think?
(I fear that I may have started this tradition when, at the end of my
tenure as first chair, I approached Jesus and asked him whether he'd
be prepared to do the job[3]. Mea culpa.)
After such an outright endorsement, especially on a public list, it
would be churlish for someone to reply "Actually, I think Abc would be
better." As a result, it's rather difficult to have an open debate,
and the candidate selected by the outgoing chair tends to win
unopposed.
I suggest that the outgoing chair says something like
It's time to change the PMC chair.
Please send nominations to private@ and the PMC will discuss and vote.
That would allow for several nominations, allow people to give reasons
why they prefer a candidate (without disparaging other candidates),
and lead to a more informed outcome.
What do you think? Are there any other aspects of the election process
we should change?
Julian
[1] https://lists.apache.org/thread/rmj9qm9wlol3nb7z4phddoljbgvypkrt
[2] https://lists.apache.org/thread/5tzb8w655pj2vo9omz20th5jnbn9zww7
[3] https://lists.apache.org/thread/y4wjdj5h1y3sypnlmhpoz9r6bkk3cv6o
Re: [DISCUSS] How we choose a PMC chair
Posted by Stamatis Zampetakis <za...@gmail.com>.
Let's move on with the original proposal by Julian. It is always good to
hear what other people have to say.
Best,
Stamatis
On Mon, Jul 4, 2022, 10:10 PM Julian Hyde <jh...@apache.org> wrote:
> > Stamatis wrote:
> >
> > Assuming that multiple people are nominated, we should maybe agree
> > on how to proceed with the vote. Do we consider everyone and settle
> > on a majority vote or do we vote for the one who was nominated by
> > more people?
>
> I should probably have used the word "suggestions" rather than
> "nominations". The PMC should have a free discussion, reach consensus,
> and then vote to formalize the result. The decision is for the PMC
> alone to make, and the number of nominations a person receives should
> not affect the result.
>
> > If we say that PMC nominations matter the most then probably
> > we could move the whole discussion to the private list (including
> > the initial email) since there is no strong incentive for non-PMC
> > members to participate; it will not really affect the outcome.
>
> I was proposing that nominations and ensuing discussion go to private@
> because a public discussion of candidates is unseemly and potentially
> divisive, but I wanted non-PMC members to have some input. Plus, the
> discussion is often kicked off by the 'state of the project' email,
> which is and should remain on dev@.
>
> But what you suggest is not unreasonable.
>
> > Another point worth clarifying is if we can nominate someone who
> > has already been a PMC chair in the past (including the current
> > chair).
>
> I agree that current and past chairs should be eligible. In other
> words, no term limits, but an election every year.
>
> Julian
>
>
>
>
> On Mon, Jul 4, 2022 at 12:31 PM Stamatis Zampetakis <za...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >
> > It makes perfect sense to send nominations to the private list.
> >
> > Assuming that multiple people are nominated, we should maybe agree on how
> > to proceed with the vote. Do we consider everyone and settle on a
> majority
> > vote or do we vote for the one who was nominated by more people?
> >
> > Both options are very similar but the difference may be significant if we
> > count nominations from PMC and non-PMC members the same way.
> >
> > If we say that PMC nominations matter the most then probably we could
> move
> > the whole discussion to the private list (including the initial email)
> > since there is no strong incentive for non-PMC members to participate; it
> > will not really affect the outcome.
> >
> > Another point worth clarifying is if we can nominate someone who has
> > already been a PMC chair in the past (including the current chair). Every
> > Calcite chair since Calcite's graduation from the incubation has served
> > exactly once and I think this is also part of the tradition. I like the
> > fact that new people are getting familiar with this role and it is
> > important for the future of the project but we shouldn't put this as a
> > strict requirement for the nomination process.
> >
> > Best,
> > Stamatis
> >
> > On Mon, Jul 4, 2022 at 9:00 PM Michael Mior <mm...@apache.org> wrote:
> >
> > > +1 from me as well.
> > > --
> > > Michael Mior
> > > mmior@apache.org
> > >
> > >
> > > Le dim. 3 juil. 2022 à 19:46, Julian Hyde <jh...@apache.org> a écrit :
> > >
> > > > As you know, Calcite has a tradition of choosing a new PMC chair (VP)
> > > > each year, around the anniversary of the project's graduation[1][2].
> I
> > > > think this is a great tradition, but I'd like to discuss an
> > > > improvement to that process.
> > > >
> > > > (I'm starting the conversation now - several months after the
> previous
> > > > vote, and several months before the next - so that it's clear that I
> > > > am not criticizing the process or the outcome or previous votes.)
> > > >
> > > > I've noticed that the outgoing chair sends an email on dev@ saying
> > > > words to the following effect:
> > > >
> > > > I think Xyz would be a great person to succeed me.
> > > > What do you all think?
> > > >
> > > > (I fear that I may have started this tradition when, at the end of my
> > > > tenure as first chair, I approached Jesus and asked him whether he'd
> > > > be prepared to do the job[3]. Mea culpa.)
> > > >
> > > > After such an outright endorsement, especially on a public list, it
> > > > would be churlish for someone to reply "Actually, I think Abc would
> be
> > > > better." As a result, it's rather difficult to have an open debate,
> > > > and the candidate selected by the outgoing chair tends to win
> > > > unopposed.
> > > >
> > > > I suggest that the outgoing chair says something like
> > > >
> > > > It's time to change the PMC chair.
> > > > Please send nominations to private@ and the PMC will discuss and
> vote.
> > > >
> > > > That would allow for several nominations, allow people to give
> reasons
> > > > why they prefer a candidate (without disparaging other candidates),
> > > > and lead to a more informed outcome.
> > > >
> > > > What do you think? Are there any other aspects of the election
> process
> > > > we should change?
> > > >
> > > > Julian
> > > >
> > > > [1] https://lists.apache.org/thread/rmj9qm9wlol3nb7z4phddoljbgvypkrt
> > > > [2] https://lists.apache.org/thread/5tzb8w655pj2vo9omz20th5jnbn9zww7
> > > > [3] https://lists.apache.org/thread/y4wjdj5h1y3sypnlmhpoz9r6bkk3cv6o
> > > >
> > >
>
Re: [DISCUSS] How we choose a PMC chair
Posted by Julian Hyde <jh...@apache.org>.
> Stamatis wrote:
>
> Assuming that multiple people are nominated, we should maybe agree
> on how to proceed with the vote. Do we consider everyone and settle
> on a majority vote or do we vote for the one who was nominated by
> more people?
I should probably have used the word "suggestions" rather than
"nominations". The PMC should have a free discussion, reach consensus,
and then vote to formalize the result. The decision is for the PMC
alone to make, and the number of nominations a person receives should
not affect the result.
> If we say that PMC nominations matter the most then probably
> we could move the whole discussion to the private list (including
> the initial email) since there is no strong incentive for non-PMC
> members to participate; it will not really affect the outcome.
I was proposing that nominations and ensuing discussion go to private@
because a public discussion of candidates is unseemly and potentially
divisive, but I wanted non-PMC members to have some input. Plus, the
discussion is often kicked off by the 'state of the project' email,
which is and should remain on dev@.
But what you suggest is not unreasonable.
> Another point worth clarifying is if we can nominate someone who
> has already been a PMC chair in the past (including the current
> chair).
I agree that current and past chairs should be eligible. In other
words, no term limits, but an election every year.
Julian
On Mon, Jul 4, 2022 at 12:31 PM Stamatis Zampetakis <za...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> It makes perfect sense to send nominations to the private list.
>
> Assuming that multiple people are nominated, we should maybe agree on how
> to proceed with the vote. Do we consider everyone and settle on a majority
> vote or do we vote for the one who was nominated by more people?
>
> Both options are very similar but the difference may be significant if we
> count nominations from PMC and non-PMC members the same way.
>
> If we say that PMC nominations matter the most then probably we could move
> the whole discussion to the private list (including the initial email)
> since there is no strong incentive for non-PMC members to participate; it
> will not really affect the outcome.
>
> Another point worth clarifying is if we can nominate someone who has
> already been a PMC chair in the past (including the current chair). Every
> Calcite chair since Calcite's graduation from the incubation has served
> exactly once and I think this is also part of the tradition. I like the
> fact that new people are getting familiar with this role and it is
> important for the future of the project but we shouldn't put this as a
> strict requirement for the nomination process.
>
> Best,
> Stamatis
>
> On Mon, Jul 4, 2022 at 9:00 PM Michael Mior <mm...@apache.org> wrote:
>
> > +1 from me as well.
> > --
> > Michael Mior
> > mmior@apache.org
> >
> >
> > Le dim. 3 juil. 2022 à 19:46, Julian Hyde <jh...@apache.org> a écrit :
> >
> > > As you know, Calcite has a tradition of choosing a new PMC chair (VP)
> > > each year, around the anniversary of the project's graduation[1][2]. I
> > > think this is a great tradition, but I'd like to discuss an
> > > improvement to that process.
> > >
> > > (I'm starting the conversation now - several months after the previous
> > > vote, and several months before the next - so that it's clear that I
> > > am not criticizing the process or the outcome or previous votes.)
> > >
> > > I've noticed that the outgoing chair sends an email on dev@ saying
> > > words to the following effect:
> > >
> > > I think Xyz would be a great person to succeed me.
> > > What do you all think?
> > >
> > > (I fear that I may have started this tradition when, at the end of my
> > > tenure as first chair, I approached Jesus and asked him whether he'd
> > > be prepared to do the job[3]. Mea culpa.)
> > >
> > > After such an outright endorsement, especially on a public list, it
> > > would be churlish for someone to reply "Actually, I think Abc would be
> > > better." As a result, it's rather difficult to have an open debate,
> > > and the candidate selected by the outgoing chair tends to win
> > > unopposed.
> > >
> > > I suggest that the outgoing chair says something like
> > >
> > > It's time to change the PMC chair.
> > > Please send nominations to private@ and the PMC will discuss and vote.
> > >
> > > That would allow for several nominations, allow people to give reasons
> > > why they prefer a candidate (without disparaging other candidates),
> > > and lead to a more informed outcome.
> > >
> > > What do you think? Are there any other aspects of the election process
> > > we should change?
> > >
> > > Julian
> > >
> > > [1] https://lists.apache.org/thread/rmj9qm9wlol3nb7z4phddoljbgvypkrt
> > > [2] https://lists.apache.org/thread/5tzb8w655pj2vo9omz20th5jnbn9zww7
> > > [3] https://lists.apache.org/thread/y4wjdj5h1y3sypnlmhpoz9r6bkk3cv6o
> > >
> >
Re: [DISCUSS] How we choose a PMC chair
Posted by Stamatis Zampetakis <za...@gmail.com>.
It makes perfect sense to send nominations to the private list.
Assuming that multiple people are nominated, we should maybe agree on how
to proceed with the vote. Do we consider everyone and settle on a majority
vote or do we vote for the one who was nominated by more people?
Both options are very similar but the difference may be significant if we
count nominations from PMC and non-PMC members the same way.
If we say that PMC nominations matter the most then probably we could move
the whole discussion to the private list (including the initial email)
since there is no strong incentive for non-PMC members to participate; it
will not really affect the outcome.
Another point worth clarifying is if we can nominate someone who has
already been a PMC chair in the past (including the current chair). Every
Calcite chair since Calcite's graduation from the incubation has served
exactly once and I think this is also part of the tradition. I like the
fact that new people are getting familiar with this role and it is
important for the future of the project but we shouldn't put this as a
strict requirement for the nomination process.
Best,
Stamatis
On Mon, Jul 4, 2022 at 9:00 PM Michael Mior <mm...@apache.org> wrote:
> +1 from me as well.
> --
> Michael Mior
> mmior@apache.org
>
>
> Le dim. 3 juil. 2022 à 19:46, Julian Hyde <jh...@apache.org> a écrit :
>
> > As you know, Calcite has a tradition of choosing a new PMC chair (VP)
> > each year, around the anniversary of the project's graduation[1][2]. I
> > think this is a great tradition, but I'd like to discuss an
> > improvement to that process.
> >
> > (I'm starting the conversation now - several months after the previous
> > vote, and several months before the next - so that it's clear that I
> > am not criticizing the process or the outcome or previous votes.)
> >
> > I've noticed that the outgoing chair sends an email on dev@ saying
> > words to the following effect:
> >
> > I think Xyz would be a great person to succeed me.
> > What do you all think?
> >
> > (I fear that I may have started this tradition when, at the end of my
> > tenure as first chair, I approached Jesus and asked him whether he'd
> > be prepared to do the job[3]. Mea culpa.)
> >
> > After such an outright endorsement, especially on a public list, it
> > would be churlish for someone to reply "Actually, I think Abc would be
> > better." As a result, it's rather difficult to have an open debate,
> > and the candidate selected by the outgoing chair tends to win
> > unopposed.
> >
> > I suggest that the outgoing chair says something like
> >
> > It's time to change the PMC chair.
> > Please send nominations to private@ and the PMC will discuss and vote.
> >
> > That would allow for several nominations, allow people to give reasons
> > why they prefer a candidate (without disparaging other candidates),
> > and lead to a more informed outcome.
> >
> > What do you think? Are there any other aspects of the election process
> > we should change?
> >
> > Julian
> >
> > [1] https://lists.apache.org/thread/rmj9qm9wlol3nb7z4phddoljbgvypkrt
> > [2] https://lists.apache.org/thread/5tzb8w655pj2vo9omz20th5jnbn9zww7
> > [3] https://lists.apache.org/thread/y4wjdj5h1y3sypnlmhpoz9r6bkk3cv6o
> >
>
Re: [DISCUSS] How we choose a PMC chair
Posted by Michael Mior <mm...@apache.org>.
+1 from me as well.
--
Michael Mior
mmior@apache.org
Le dim. 3 juil. 2022 à 19:46, Julian Hyde <jh...@apache.org> a écrit :
> As you know, Calcite has a tradition of choosing a new PMC chair (VP)
> each year, around the anniversary of the project's graduation[1][2]. I
> think this is a great tradition, but I'd like to discuss an
> improvement to that process.
>
> (I'm starting the conversation now - several months after the previous
> vote, and several months before the next - so that it's clear that I
> am not criticizing the process or the outcome or previous votes.)
>
> I've noticed that the outgoing chair sends an email on dev@ saying
> words to the following effect:
>
> I think Xyz would be a great person to succeed me.
> What do you all think?
>
> (I fear that I may have started this tradition when, at the end of my
> tenure as first chair, I approached Jesus and asked him whether he'd
> be prepared to do the job[3]. Mea culpa.)
>
> After such an outright endorsement, especially on a public list, it
> would be churlish for someone to reply "Actually, I think Abc would be
> better." As a result, it's rather difficult to have an open debate,
> and the candidate selected by the outgoing chair tends to win
> unopposed.
>
> I suggest that the outgoing chair says something like
>
> It's time to change the PMC chair.
> Please send nominations to private@ and the PMC will discuss and vote.
>
> That would allow for several nominations, allow people to give reasons
> why they prefer a candidate (without disparaging other candidates),
> and lead to a more informed outcome.
>
> What do you think? Are there any other aspects of the election process
> we should change?
>
> Julian
>
> [1] https://lists.apache.org/thread/rmj9qm9wlol3nb7z4phddoljbgvypkrt
> [2] https://lists.apache.org/thread/5tzb8w655pj2vo9omz20th5jnbn9zww7
> [3] https://lists.apache.org/thread/y4wjdj5h1y3sypnlmhpoz9r6bkk3cv6o
>
Re: [DISCUSS] How we choose a PMC chair
Posted by Ruben Q L <ru...@gmail.com>.
+1 for the improvement.
As the current chair until the end of the year, when do you think it would
be a good time to send the email to the dev list with the message "It's
time to change the PMC chair, please send nominations to private@ ..." to
start this discussion? Around beginning of December?
Best,
Ruben
On Mon, Jul 4, 2022 at 7:45 AM Alessandro Solimando <
alessandro.solimando@gmail.com> wrote:
> +1 from me too on adopting Julian's suggestion.
>
> Best regards,
> Alessandro
>
> On Mon, 4 Jul 2022 at 07:37, Forward Xu <fo...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > +1
> >
> > Haisheng Yuan <hy...@apache.org> 于2022年7月4日周一 08:32写道：
> >
> > > +1 to the improvement.
> > >
> > > On 2022/07/04 00:13:58 Francis Chuang wrote:
> > > > +1 I think this is a good idea. We have a lot of capable PMC members
> > and
> > > > it would be of great benefit to the project if all of them were
> > > > considered during the PMC chair selection process.
> > > >
> > > > On 4/07/2022 9:46 am, Julian Hyde wrote:
> > > > > As you know, Calcite has a tradition of choosing a new PMC chair
> (VP)
> > > > > each year, around the anniversary of the project's
> graduation[1][2].
> > I
> > > > > think this is a great tradition, but I'd like to discuss an
> > > > > improvement to that process.
> > > > >
> > > > > (I'm starting the conversation now - several months after the
> > previous
> > > > > vote, and several months before the next - so that it's clear that
> I
> > > > > am not criticizing the process or the outcome or previous votes.)
> > > > >
> > > > > I've noticed that the outgoing chair sends an email on dev@ saying
> > > > > words to the following effect:
> > > > >
> > > > > I think Xyz would be a great person to succeed me.
> > > > > What do you all think?
> > > > >
> > > > > (I fear that I may have started this tradition when, at the end of
> my
> > > > > tenure as first chair, I approached Jesus and asked him whether
> he'd
> > > > > be prepared to do the job[3]. Mea culpa.)
> > > > >
> > > > > After such an outright endorsement, especially on a public list, it
> > > > > would be churlish for someone to reply "Actually, I think Abc would
> > be
> > > > > better." As a result, it's rather difficult to have an open debate,
> > > > > and the candidate selected by the outgoing chair tends to win
> > > > > unopposed.
> > > > >
> > > > > I suggest that the outgoing chair says something like
> > > > >
> > > > > It's time to change the PMC chair.
> > > > > Please send nominations to private@ and the PMC will discuss
> and
> > > vote.
> > > > >
> > > > > That would allow for several nominations, allow people to give
> > reasons
> > > > > why they prefer a candidate (without disparaging other candidates),
> > > > > and lead to a more informed outcome.
> > > > >
> > > > > What do you think? Are there any other aspects of the election
> > process
> > > > > we should change?
> > > > >
> > > > > Julian
> > > > >
> > > > > [1]
> https://lists.apache.org/thread/rmj9qm9wlol3nb7z4phddoljbgvypkrt
> > > > > [2]
> https://lists.apache.org/thread/5tzb8w655pj2vo9omz20th5jnbn9zww7
> > > > > [3]
> https://lists.apache.org/thread/y4wjdj5h1y3sypnlmhpoz9r6bkk3cv6o
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
Re: [DISCUSS] How we choose a PMC chair
Posted by Alessandro Solimando <al...@gmail.com>.
+1 from me too on adopting Julian's suggestion.
Best regards,
Alessandro
On Mon, 4 Jul 2022 at 07:37, Forward Xu <fo...@gmail.com> wrote:
> +1
>
> Haisheng Yuan <hy...@apache.org> 于2022年7月4日周一 08:32写道：
>
> > +1 to the improvement.
> >
> > On 2022/07/04 00:13:58 Francis Chuang wrote:
> > > +1 I think this is a good idea. We have a lot of capable PMC members
> and
> > > it would be of great benefit to the project if all of them were
> > > considered during the PMC chair selection process.
> > >
> > > On 4/07/2022 9:46 am, Julian Hyde wrote:
> > > > As you know, Calcite has a tradition of choosing a new PMC chair (VP)
> > > > each year, around the anniversary of the project's graduation[1][2].
> I
> > > > think this is a great tradition, but I'd like to discuss an
> > > > improvement to that process.
> > > >
> > > > (I'm starting the conversation now - several months after the
> previous
> > > > vote, and several months before the next - so that it's clear that I
> > > > am not criticizing the process or the outcome or previous votes.)
> > > >
> > > > I've noticed that the outgoing chair sends an email on dev@ saying
> > > > words to the following effect:
> > > >
> > > > I think Xyz would be a great person to succeed me.
> > > > What do you all think?
> > > >
> > > > (I fear that I may have started this tradition when, at the end of my
> > > > tenure as first chair, I approached Jesus and asked him whether he'd
> > > > be prepared to do the job[3]. Mea culpa.)
> > > >
> > > > After such an outright endorsement, especially on a public list, it
> > > > would be churlish for someone to reply "Actually, I think Abc would
> be
> > > > better." As a result, it's rather difficult to have an open debate,
> > > > and the candidate selected by the outgoing chair tends to win
> > > > unopposed.
> > > >
> > > > I suggest that the outgoing chair says something like
> > > >
> > > > It's time to change the PMC chair.
> > > > Please send nominations to private@ and the PMC will discuss and
> > vote.
> > > >
> > > > That would allow for several nominations, allow people to give
> reasons
> > > > why they prefer a candidate (without disparaging other candidates),
> > > > and lead to a more informed outcome.
> > > >
> > > > What do you think? Are there any other aspects of the election
> process
> > > > we should change?
> > > >
> > > > Julian
> > > >
> > > > [1] https://lists.apache.org/thread/rmj9qm9wlol3nb7z4phddoljbgvypkrt
> > > > [2] https://lists.apache.org/thread/5tzb8w655pj2vo9omz20th5jnbn9zww7
> > > > [3] https://lists.apache.org/thread/y4wjdj5h1y3sypnlmhpoz9r6bkk3cv6o
> > >
> >
>
Re: [DISCUSS] How we choose a PMC chair
Posted by Chunwei Lei <ch...@gmail.com>.
+1 to the improvement.
Best,
Chunwei
On Mon, Jul 4, 2022 at 1:37 PM Forward Xu <fo...@gmail.com> wrote:
> +1
>
> Haisheng Yuan <hy...@apache.org> 于2022年7月4日周一 08:32写道：
>
> > +1 to the improvement.
> >
> > On 2022/07/04 00:13:58 Francis Chuang wrote:
> > > +1 I think this is a good idea. We have a lot of capable PMC members
> and
> > > it would be of great benefit to the project if all of them were
> > > considered during the PMC chair selection process.
> > >
> > > On 4/07/2022 9:46 am, Julian Hyde wrote:
> > > > As you know, Calcite has a tradition of choosing a new PMC chair (VP)
> > > > each year, around the anniversary of the project's graduation[1][2].
> I
> > > > think this is a great tradition, but I'd like to discuss an
> > > > improvement to that process.
> > > >
> > > > (I'm starting the conversation now - several months after the
> previous
> > > > vote, and several months before the next - so that it's clear that I
> > > > am not criticizing the process or the outcome or previous votes.)
> > > >
> > > > I've noticed that the outgoing chair sends an email on dev@ saying
> > > > words to the following effect:
> > > >
> > > > I think Xyz would be a great person to succeed me.
> > > > What do you all think?
> > > >
> > > > (I fear that I may have started this tradition when, at the end of my
> > > > tenure as first chair, I approached Jesus and asked him whether he'd
> > > > be prepared to do the job[3]. Mea culpa.)
> > > >
> > > > After such an outright endorsement, especially on a public list, it
> > > > would be churlish for someone to reply "Actually, I think Abc would
> be
> > > > better." As a result, it's rather difficult to have an open debate,
> > > > and the candidate selected by the outgoing chair tends to win
> > > > unopposed.
> > > >
> > > > I suggest that the outgoing chair says something like
> > > >
> > > > It's time to change the PMC chair.
> > > > Please send nominations to private@ and the PMC will discuss and
> > vote.
> > > >
> > > > That would allow for several nominations, allow people to give
> reasons
> > > > why they prefer a candidate (without disparaging other candidates),
> > > > and lead to a more informed outcome.
> > > >
> > > > What do you think? Are there any other aspects of the election
> process
> > > > we should change?
> > > >
> > > > Julian
> > > >
> > > > [1] https://lists.apache.org/thread/rmj9qm9wlol3nb7z4phddoljbgvypkrt
> > > > [2] https://lists.apache.org/thread/5tzb8w655pj2vo9omz20th5jnbn9zww7
> > > > [3] https://lists.apache.org/thread/y4wjdj5h1y3sypnlmhpoz9r6bkk3cv6o
> > >
> >
>
Re: [DISCUSS] How we choose a PMC chair
Posted by Forward Xu <fo...@gmail.com>.
+1
Haisheng Yuan <hy...@apache.org> 于2022年7月4日周一 08:32写道：
> +1 to the improvement.
>
> On 2022/07/04 00:13:58 Francis Chuang wrote:
> > +1 I think this is a good idea. We have a lot of capable PMC members and
> > it would be of great benefit to the project if all of them were
> > considered during the PMC chair selection process.
> >
> > On 4/07/2022 9:46 am, Julian Hyde wrote:
> > > As you know, Calcite has a tradition of choosing a new PMC chair (VP)
> > > each year, around the anniversary of the project's graduation[1][2]. I
> > > think this is a great tradition, but I'd like to discuss an
> > > improvement to that process.
> > >
> > > (I'm starting the conversation now - several months after the previous
> > > vote, and several months before the next - so that it's clear that I
> > > am not criticizing the process or the outcome or previous votes.)
> > >
> > > I've noticed that the outgoing chair sends an email on dev@ saying
> > > words to the following effect:
> > >
> > > I think Xyz would be a great person to succeed me.
> > > What do you all think?
> > >
> > > (I fear that I may have started this tradition when, at the end of my
> > > tenure as first chair, I approached Jesus and asked him whether he'd
> > > be prepared to do the job[3]. Mea culpa.)
> > >
> > > After such an outright endorsement, especially on a public list, it
> > > would be churlish for someone to reply "Actually, I think Abc would be
> > > better." As a result, it's rather difficult to have an open debate,
> > > and the candidate selected by the outgoing chair tends to win
> > > unopposed.
> > >
> > > I suggest that the outgoing chair says something like
> > >
> > > It's time to change the PMC chair.
> > > Please send nominations to private@ and the PMC will discuss and
> vote.
> > >
> > > That would allow for several nominations, allow people to give reasons
> > > why they prefer a candidate (without disparaging other candidates),
> > > and lead to a more informed outcome.
> > >
> > > What do you think? Are there any other aspects of the election process
> > > we should change?
> > >
> > > Julian
> > >
> > > [1] https://lists.apache.org/thread/rmj9qm9wlol3nb7z4phddoljbgvypkrt
> > > [2] https://lists.apache.org/thread/5tzb8w655pj2vo9omz20th5jnbn9zww7
> > > [3] https://lists.apache.org/thread/y4wjdj5h1y3sypnlmhpoz9r6bkk3cv6o
> >
>
Re: [DISCUSS] How we choose a PMC chair
Posted by Haisheng Yuan <hy...@apache.org>.
+1 to the improvement.
On 2022/07/04 00:13:58 Francis Chuang wrote:
> +1 I think this is a good idea. We have a lot of capable PMC members and
> it would be of great benefit to the project if all of them were
> considered during the PMC chair selection process.
>
> On 4/07/2022 9:46 am, Julian Hyde wrote:
> > As you know, Calcite has a tradition of choosing a new PMC chair (VP)
> > each year, around the anniversary of the project's graduation[1][2]. I
> > think this is a great tradition, but I'd like to discuss an
> > improvement to that process.
> >
> > (I'm starting the conversation now - several months after the previous
> > vote, and several months before the next - so that it's clear that I
> > am not criticizing the process or the outcome or previous votes.)
> >
> > I've noticed that the outgoing chair sends an email on dev@ saying
> > words to the following effect:
> >
> > I think Xyz would be a great person to succeed me.
> > What do you all think?
> >
> > (I fear that I may have started this tradition when, at the end of my
> > tenure as first chair, I approached Jesus and asked him whether he'd
> > be prepared to do the job[3]. Mea culpa.)
> >
> > After such an outright endorsement, especially on a public list, it
> > would be churlish for someone to reply "Actually, I think Abc would be
> > better." As a result, it's rather difficult to have an open debate,
> > and the candidate selected by the outgoing chair tends to win
> > unopposed.
> >
> > I suggest that the outgoing chair says something like
> >
> > It's time to change the PMC chair.
> > Please send nominations to private@ and the PMC will discuss and vote.
> >
> > That would allow for several nominations, allow people to give reasons
> > why they prefer a candidate (without disparaging other candidates),
> > and lead to a more informed outcome.
> >
> > What do you think? Are there any other aspects of the election process
> > we should change?
> >
> > Julian
> >
> > [1] https://lists.apache.org/thread/rmj9qm9wlol3nb7z4phddoljbgvypkrt
> > [2] https://lists.apache.org/thread/5tzb8w655pj2vo9omz20th5jnbn9zww7
> > [3] https://lists.apache.org/thread/y4wjdj5h1y3sypnlmhpoz9r6bkk3cv6o
>
Re: [DISCUSS] How we choose a PMC chair
Posted by Francis Chuang <fr...@apache.org>.
+1 I think this is a good idea. We have a lot of capable PMC members and
it would be of great benefit to the project if all of them were
considered during the PMC chair selection process.
On 4/07/2022 9:46 am, Julian Hyde wrote:
> As you know, Calcite has a tradition of choosing a new PMC chair (VP)
> each year, around the anniversary of the project's graduation[1][2]. I
> think this is a great tradition, but I'd like to discuss an
> improvement to that process.
>
> (I'm starting the conversation now - several months after the previous
> vote, and several months before the next - so that it's clear that I
> am not criticizing the process or the outcome or previous votes.)
>
> I've noticed that the outgoing chair sends an email on dev@ saying
> words to the following effect:
>
> I think Xyz would be a great person to succeed me.
> What do you all think?
>
> (I fear that I may have started this tradition when, at the end of my
> tenure as first chair, I approached Jesus and asked him whether he'd
> be prepared to do the job[3]. Mea culpa.)
>
> After such an outright endorsement, especially on a public list, it
> would be churlish for someone to reply "Actually, I think Abc would be
> better." As a result, it's rather difficult to have an open debate,
> and the candidate selected by the outgoing chair tends to win
> unopposed.
>
> I suggest that the outgoing chair says something like
>
> It's time to change the PMC chair.
> Please send nominations to private@ and the PMC will discuss and vote.
>
> That would allow for several nominations, allow people to give reasons
> why they prefer a candidate (without disparaging other candidates),
> and lead to a more informed outcome.
>
> What do you think? Are there any other aspects of the election process
> we should change?
>
> Julian
>
> [1] https://lists.apache.org/thread/rmj9qm9wlol3nb7z4phddoljbgvypkrt
> [2] https://lists.apache.org/thread/5tzb8w655pj2vo9omz20th5jnbn9zww7
> [3] https://lists.apache.org/thread/y4wjdj5h1y3sypnlmhpoz9r6bkk3cv6o