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Posted to dev@openjpa.apache.org by Craig L Russell <Cr...@Sun.COM> on 2009/05/18 17:48:32 UTC
Apache trademarks on OpenJPA web site
Hi PRC,
We've finished updating the OpenJPA web site master pages to include
Apache trademarks in an obvious but not obtrusive way.
http://openjpa.apache.org/unit-tests.html is an example.
Please let us know if this is in accordance with the current trademark
notice policy.
Thanks,
Craig
Craig L Russell
Architect, Sun Java Enterprise System http://db.apache.org/jdo
408 276-5638 mailto:Craig.Russell@sun.com
P.S. A good JDO? O, Gasp!
Re: Apache trademarks on OpenJPA web site
Posted by Michael Dick <mi...@apache.org>.
Donald's a busy guy, not sure I'd want to say he's over-burdened but I
think he's raising a good point.
Making one update isn't much of a burden but keeping it up to date could be.
In addition Donald's suggestion of more consistent branding is a good thing
(see Eclipse.org's projects [1]).
I think the site specific stuff, #2 - #4, can be done on a site by site
basis, but #1 & #5 seem fairly standard and a lot of sites would benefit
from having a template that they could insert a logo into and apply to their
site.
Maybe this isn't the right mailing list to suggest it on, but having a
template banner / footer might be well received by a lot of projects.
[1] http://www.eclipse.org/projects/listofprojects.php
-mike
On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 1:18 PM, Lawrence Rosen <lr...@rosenlaw.com> wrote:
> Donald Woods asked about notices at the bottom of our web pages:
>
> > For #5, why should we put the burden on every project to list individual
>
> > trademarks? If you look at other websites such as:
>
> <snip>
>
>
>
> I don't suggest that we put a burden on anyone. I hope there will be a page
> at www.apache.org <http://www.apache.org/> that will list all our
> trademarks. That will become the official list and the official notice.
>
>
>
> What I suggest is the following two sentences at the bottom of our web
> pages, in small print:
>
>
>
> Copyright (C) 2009 Apache Software Foundation. Licensed under Apache
> License
> 2.0 (see www.apache.org <http://www.apache.org/> ).
>
> Apache and the Apache feather logo are trademarks of Apache Software
> Foundation.
>
>
>
> I don't consider that much of a burden. While those notices are not legally
> required, there are certain legal advantages to our including those notices
> (particularly a copyright notice!) in small print almost everywhere.
>
>
>
> If you prefer to replace that with a "Terms of Use" link, that's also
> effective, although I don't believe it offers the same legal advantages as
> explicit copyright notices on the pages themselves. But hey, we're not
> going
> to sue anyone anyway, so perhaps I'm being over-protective? Or you
> over-burdened? :-)
>
>
>
> All other notices would be entirely optional to the project, such as
> acknowledgement of Sun's "Java" trademark, or notice of the project's own
> trademarks.
>
>
>
> /Larry
>
>
>
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
>
> > From: Donald Woods [mailto:dwoods@apache.org]
>
> > Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 2009 6:12 AM
>
> > To: dev@openjpa.apache.org
>
> > Cc: Craig.Russell@Sun.COM; 'ASF PRC Team'
>
> > Subject: Re: Apache trademarks on OpenJPA web site
>
> >
>
> > For #5, why should we put the burden on every project to list individual
>
> > trademarks? If you look at other websites such as:
>
> > java.net
>
> > code.google.com
>
> > sourceforge.net
>
> > www.sun.com
>
> > www.ibm.com
>
> > www.hp.com
>
> > they don't list trademarks on their main website pages. Each have a
>
> > "Terms of Use" link at the bottom, which leads to a Legal page that
>
> > either contains trademark statements or links to a subpage which lists
>
> > the trademarks -
>
> > http://java.net/terms.csp - Section 5c
>
> > http://code.google.com/tos.html - Section 4
>
> > http://apps.sourceforge.net/trac/sitelegal/wiki/Terms%20of%20Use -
>
> > Section 6
>
> > http://www.sun.com/suntrademarks/
>
> > http://www.ibm.com/legal/copytrade.shtml
>
> > http://welcome.hp.com/country/us/en/termsofuse.html
>
> >
>
> > Shouldn't we create a similar "Terms of Use" page (covering License,
>
> > Trademark, Privacy, ...) for all ASF projects to link to in the footer
>
> > of our web and wiki pages?
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > -Donald
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Lawrence Rosen wrote:
>
> > > Hi Craig,
>
> > >
>
> > > I took your complaint to be about the complexities of trademark law,
> not
>
> > > about me. :-) I'm merely today's messenger with a confusing message.
>
> > >
>
> > > Here's an example that you may find useful, for a dessert website:
>
> > >
>
> > > **************
>
> > >
>
> > > Welcome to the Jello Brand gelatin recipe cookbook, brought to you by
>
> > the
>
> > > Kraft Foods Company.
>
> > >
>
> > > Select among the following:
>
> > > * Flavors of Jello gelatin
>
> > > * Jello and Fruit: The Perfect Combination
>
> > > * Whipped Jello for a Romantic Evening Soiree
>
> > > * Feeding a large family with Jello
>
> > > * Textbook on the chemistry of Jello and other brands of gelatin
>
> > >
>
> > > ***************
>
> > >
>
> > > Notice that I slipped casually from strong trademark ("Jello brand
>
> > gelatin")
>
> > > to adjective ("Jello gelatin") to noun (just "Jello"), which is
>
> > unavoidable
>
> > > in casual speech, and perfectly legal. Trademark law fortunately
> doesn't
>
> > > require that we all take a refresher course in English grammar or
>
> > > continually utter certain magic words!
>
> > >
>
> > > Here's what I would expect in terms of branding Apache OpenJPA:
>
> > >
>
> > > 1. The OpenJPA website should start with a specific feather logo that
>
> > > identifies it as a website of the Apache Software Foundation. This logo
>
> > > should include the words "Apache Software Foundation" and a pointer to
>
> > our
>
> > > main website homepage, www.apache.org. In fact, if you click on that
>
> > logo
>
> > > you should go to the ASF homepage.
>
> > >
>
> > > 2. Somewhere prominent, the banner on the first page of the OpenJPA
>
> > website
>
> > > should identify the "Apache (TM) OpenJPA Project". That "TM" can be
>
> > fairly
>
> > > small, but not invisible. Then the body of the page can use the terms
>
> > > "OpenJPA project" or "OpenJPA team" or even "committers to OpenJPA"
> when
>
> > you
>
> > > mean your ASF project.
>
> > >
>
> > > 3. Then I expect the first prominent reference to the output of the
>
> > OpenJPA
>
> > > project to say that you produce and distribute "Apache OpenJPA (TM)
>
> > software
>
> > > that implements Sun's Java Persistence API (JPA) specification for the
>
> > > transparent persistence of Java objects" (or whatever is appropriate
> and
>
> > > true). Again, the "TM" can be fairly small, but not invisible; if you
>
> > don't
>
> > > want to bother claiming a trademark on "OpenJPA", simply leave off that
>
> > TM.
>
> > >
>
> > > 4. From then on, when referring to the software, you can say things
>
> > like:
>
> > > * Unit tests for OpenJPA
>
> > > * Downloading OpenJPA software
>
> > > * OpenJPA is distributed under Apache License 2.0
>
> > > * How is OpenJPA implemented?
>
> > > * Apache OpenJPA integrates with Apache Tomcat.
>
> > > * The sixth iteration of OpenJPA is complete!
>
> > >
>
> > > ...and lots of other casual uses that engineers should be able to utter
>
> > with
>
> > > ease and complete freedom.
>
> > >
>
> > > 5. At the bottom, in small but not invisible letters, include all the
>
> > > appropriate copyright and trademark and licensing notices to assert
> that
>
> > ASF
>
> > > is the owner of whatever intellectual property we claim. To be polite,
>
> > you
>
> > > can identify that "Java is a trademark of Sun Microsystems (or
> Oracle)."
>
> > >
>
> > > /Larry
>
> > >
>
> > >
>
> > >
>
> > >> -----Original Message-----
>
> > >> From: Craig.Russell@Sun.COM [mailto:Craig.Russell@Sun.COM]
>
> > >> Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2009 11:46 AM
>
> > >> To: lrosen@rosenlaw.com
>
> > >> Cc: 'ASF PRC Team'; dev@openjpa.apache.org
>
> > >> Subject: Re: Apache trademarks on OpenJPA web site
>
> > >>
>
> > >> Hi Larry,
>
> > >>
>
> > >> On May 18, 2009, at 9:58 PM, Lawrence Rosen wrote:
>
> > >>
>
> > >>> Craig Russell complained:
>
> > >> First, let me be clear. I'm not complaining. I'm trying to understand
>
> > >> just what we need to do in our public face to be compliant with an
>
> > >> Apache policy that allows Apache to promote and enforce our marks.
>
> > >>
>
> > >> My questions really are just questions. They are not rhetorical or
>
> > >> argumentative. Please don't read any belligerence into the questions.
>
> > >>>> You've reminded me of the trademark rules that have given most
>
> > >>>> engineers angina: that trademarks are not nouns but adjectives. This
>
> > >>>> little trick is what makes normal text look like legalese once
>
> > >>>> lawyers
>
> > >>>> get hold of it.
>
> > >>> I'm aware of the pain that causes, and I don't want to turn Apache
>
> > >>> web pages
>
> > >>> into legalese.
>
> > >>>
>
> > >>> The first major use of a trademark on a web page ought to be, in
>
> > >>> some way, a
>
> > >>> combination of the trademark as an adjective modifying the
>
> > >>> "official" noun.
>
> > >> The trouble for OpenJPA is that there's no "official" noun. "Software"
>
> > >> is certainly an appropriate noun, as are "program", "library",
>
> > >> "package", and "implementation". So should we choose for each project
>
> > >> an official noun and be consistent with its "first use" on each web
>
> > >> page?
>
> > >>> That is so you can educate your readers about your trademark and your
>
> > >>> product. But it needn't be in sentence form, nor even contain words
>
> > >>> in their
>
> > >>> normal English usages or sequence. There are lots of creative ways to
>
> > >>> introduce trademarks to the public.
>
> > >>>
>
> > >>> So I totally approve of your "OpenJPA is Apache's implementation of
>
> > >>> Sun's
>
> > >>> Java Persistence API (JPA) specification for the transparent
>
> > >>> persistence of
>
> > >>> Java objects."
>
> > >> This confuses me. The use of OpenJPA here seems like a noun.
>
> > >>>
>
> > >>> You needn't say "OpenJPA software" since you said "OpenJPA
>
> > >>> implementation".
>
> > >> Not exactly. It doesn't say "OpenJPA implementation is Apache's
>
> > >> implementation". It would actually sound better to me to say "OpenJPA
>
> > >> software is Apache's implementation."
>
> > >>
>
> > >> So if it's not a noun, it would never be ok to say "OpenJPA is
>
> > >> <something>". It would have to be "OpenJPA Software is <something>."
>
> > >>> They sort of mean the same thing, I think. I'd want you to be more
>
> > >>> precise
>
> > >>> if I intended to file a trademark registration with the USPTO, but
>
> > >>> for a
>
> > >>> common law trademark, I think that works just fine. Maybe I'd ask
> that
>
> > >>> somewhere you say "click here to download Apache OpenJPA software."
>
> > >> That's easy to do once we understand the rules.
>
> > >>
>
> > >>> But otherwise, don't change that website.
>
> > >>>
>
> > >>> What I objected to in my previous email was the first sentence on
> your
>
> > >>> http://openjpa.apache.org/unit-tests.html page, "OpenJPA's unit
>
> > >>> tests are
>
> > >>> written using JUnit." That sentence doesn't give anyone a clue what
>
> > >>> noun the
>
> > >>> adjective OpenJPA modifies. Nor have I ever seen an apostrophe-s on
> an
>
> > >>> English adjective. :-)
>
> > >> Right, back to our noun versus adjective. The sentence doesn't make
>
> > >> sense with OpenJPA as an adjective. As an adjective, it could be
>
> > >> "OpenJPA unit tests", since part of the OpenJPA implementation
>
> > >> consists of unit tests. But OpenJPA is not just unit tests. It's also
>
> > >> a functional piece of software.
>
> > >>
>
> > >> But our official documentation is full of "OpenJPA as noun" and not
>
> > >> "OpenJPA as adjective". So I'm really struggling with whether it's
>
> > >> just the "first use" on a page that needs to use OpenJPA Software or
>
> > >> not.
>
> > >>>
>
> > >>> /Larry (with my English teacher hat on that I dug out of the very
>
> > >>> back of my
>
> > >>> closet)
>
> > >>>
>
> > >>>> -----Original Message-----
>
> > >>>> From: Craig.Russell@Sun.COM [mailto:Craig.Russell@Sun.COM]
>
> > >>>> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 2:10 PM
>
> > >>>> To: lrosen@rosenlaw.com
>
> > >>>> Cc: 'ASF PRC Team'; dev@openjpa.apache.org
>
> > >>>> Subject: Re: Apache trademarks on OpenJPA web site
>
> > >>>>
>
> > >>>> Hi Larry,
>
> > >>>>
>
> > >>>> On May 18, 2009, at 10:45 AM, Lawrence Rosen wrote:
>
> > >>>>
>
> > >>>>> 3. Trademarks should be used as adjectives, not nouns. So the
>
> > >>>>> following
>
> > >>>>> sentence is incorrect trademark usage: "OpenJPA's unit tests are
>
> > >>>>> written
>
> > >>>>> using JUnit." Consider rewriting as "Unit tests for Apache OpenJPA
>
> > >>>>> persistence project software are written using the JUnit testing
>
> > >>>>> framework."
>
> > >>>>> Always assume that customers have to be taught to associate the
>
> > >>>>> trademark
>
> > >>>>> with the noun in modifies. Once they've done that in their minds,
>
> > >>>>> then you
>
> > >>>>> have a very valuable trademark.
>
> > >>>>>
>
> > >>>>> /Larry
>
> > >>>>>
>
> > >>>> You've reminded me of the trademark rules that have given most
>
> > >>>> engineers angina: that trademarks are not nouns but adjectives. This
>
> > >>>> little trick is what makes normal text look like legalese once
>
> > >>>> lawyers
>
> > >>>> get hold of it.
>
> > >>>>
>
> > >>>> Where we say "OpenJPA is Apache's implementation of Sun's Java
>
> > >>>> Persistence API (JPA) specification for the transparent persistence
>
> > >>>> of
>
> > >>>> Java objects. This document provides an overview of the JPA standard
>
> > >>>> and technical details on the use of OpenJPA." we would have to say,
>
> > >>>> instead, "OpenJPA software is Apache's implementation of Sun's Java
>
> > >>>> Persistence API (JPA) specification for the transparent persistence
>
> > >>>> of
>
> > >>>> Java objects. This document provides an overview of the JPA standard
>
> > >>>> and technical details on the use of OpenJPA software."
>
> > >>>>
>
> > >>>> Did I get this right?
>
> > >>>>
>
> > >>>> Thanks,
>
> > >>>>
>
> > >>>> Craig
>
> > >>>>>
>
> > >>>>>
>
> > >>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>
> > >>>>>> From: Craig.Russell@Sun.COM [mailto:Craig.Russell@Sun.COM]
>
> > >>>>>> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 8:49 AM
>
> > >>>>>> To: ASF PRC Team
>
> > >>>>>> Cc: dev@openjpa.apache.org
>
> > >>>>>> Subject: Apache trademarks on OpenJPA web site
>
> > >>>>>>
>
> > >>>>>> Hi PRC,
>
> > >>>>>>
>
> > >>>>>> We've finished updating the OpenJPA web site master pages to
>
> > >>>>>> include
>
> > >>>>>> Apache trademarks in an obvious but not obtrusive way.
>
> > >>>>>>
>
> > >>>>>> http://openjpa.apache.org/unit-tests.html is an example.
>
> > >>>>>>
>
> > >>>>>> Please let us know if this is in accordance with the current
>
> > >>>>>> trademark
>
> > >>>>>> notice policy.
>
> > >>>>>>
>
> > >>>>>> Thanks,
>
> > >>>>>>
>
> > >>>>>> Craig
>
> > >>>>>>
>
> > >>>>>> Craig L Russell
>
> > >>>>>> Architect, Sun Java Enterprise System http://db.apache.org/jdo
>
> > >>>>>> 408 276-5638 mailto:Craig.Russell@sun.com
>
> > >>>>>> P.S. A good JDO? O, Gasp!
>
> > >>>>>
>
> > >>>> Craig L Russell
>
> > >>>> Architect, Sun Java Enterprise System http://db.apache.org/jdo
>
> > >>>> 408 276-5638 mailto:Craig.Russell@sun.com
>
> > >>>> P.S. A good JDO? O, Gasp!
>
> > >>>
>
> > >> Craig L Russell
>
> > >> Architect, Sun Java Enterprise System http://db.apache.org/jdo
>
> > >> 408 276-5638 mailto:Craig.Russell@sun.com
>
> > >> P.S. A good JDO? O, Gasp!
>
> > >
>
> > >
>
> > >
>
>
RE: Apache trademarks on OpenJPA web site
Posted by Lawrence Rosen <lr...@rosenlaw.com>.
Donald Woods wrote:
> I've added the suggested copyright and
> trademark text to our Confluence AutoExport template, so every page from
<snip>
Excellent!
Hopefully PRC will have a recommendation soon for a standard top border, or
at least for the Apache feather logo in that top border.
/Larry
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Donald Woods [mailto:dwoods@apache.org]
> Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 2009 12:30 PM
> To: dev@openjpa.apache.org
> Cc: Craig.Russell@Sun.COM; 'ASF PRC Team'
> Subject: Re: Apache trademarks on OpenJPA web site
>
> Thanks for the input and review. I've added the suggested copyright and
> trademark text to our Confluence AutoExport template, so every page from
> the wiki will contain the text. Until the static content is replicated
> around, you can view the latest Confluence exported pages at -
> http://cwiki.apache.org/openjpa/
>
> The "Apache License 2.0" text is really a link, but not as visible due
> to the current formatting be used in the style sheet....
>
>
>
> Thanks,
> Donald
[LR:] <snip>
Re: Apache trademarks on OpenJPA web site
Posted by Donald Woods <dw...@apache.org>.
Thanks for the input and review. I've added the suggested copyright and
trademark text to our Confluence AutoExport template, so every page from
the wiki will contain the text. Until the static content is replicated
around, you can view the latest Confluence exported pages at -
http://cwiki.apache.org/openjpa/
The "Apache License 2.0" text is really a link, but not as visible due
to the current formatting be used in the style sheet....
Thanks,
Donald
Lawrence Rosen wrote:
> Donald Woods asked about notices at the bottom of our web pages:
>
>> For #5, why should we put the burden on every project to list individual
>
>> trademarks? If you look at other websites such as:
>
> <snip>
>
>
>
> I don't suggest that we put a burden on anyone. I hope there will be a page
> at www.apache.org <http://www.apache.org/> that will list all our
> trademarks. That will become the official list and the official notice.
>
>
>
> What I suggest is the following two sentences at the bottom of our web
> pages, in small print:
>
>
>
> Copyright (C) 2009 Apache Software Foundation. Licensed under Apache License
> 2.0 (see www.apache.org <http://www.apache.org/> ).
>
> Apache and the Apache feather logo are trademarks of Apache Software
> Foundation.
>
>
>
> I don't consider that much of a burden. While those notices are not legally
> required, there are certain legal advantages to our including those notices
> (particularly a copyright notice!) in small print almost everywhere.
>
>
>
> If you prefer to replace that with a "Terms of Use" link, that's also
> effective, although I don't believe it offers the same legal advantages as
> explicit copyright notices on the pages themselves. But hey, we're not going
> to sue anyone anyway, so perhaps I'm being over-protective? Or you
> over-burdened? :-)
>
>
>
> All other notices would be entirely optional to the project, such as
> acknowledgement of Sun's "Java" trademark, or notice of the project's own
> trademarks.
>
>
>
> /Larry
>
>
>
>
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>
>> From: Donald Woods [mailto:dwoods@apache.org]
>
>> Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 2009 6:12 AM
>
>> To: dev@openjpa.apache.org
>
>> Cc: Craig.Russell@Sun.COM; 'ASF PRC Team'
>
>> Subject: Re: Apache trademarks on OpenJPA web site
>
>
>> For #5, why should we put the burden on every project to list individual
>
>> trademarks? If you look at other websites such as:
>
>> java.net
>
>> code.google.com
>
>> sourceforge.net
>
>> www.sun.com
>
>> www.ibm.com
>
>> www.hp.com
>
>> they don't list trademarks on their main website pages. Each have a
>
>> "Terms of Use" link at the bottom, which leads to a Legal page that
>
>> either contains trademark statements or links to a subpage which lists
>
>> the trademarks -
>
>> http://java.net/terms.csp - Section 5c
>
>> http://code.google.com/tos.html - Section 4
>
>> http://apps.sourceforge.net/trac/sitelegal/wiki/Terms%20of%20Use -
>
>> Section 6
>
>> http://www.sun.com/suntrademarks/
>
>> http://www.ibm.com/legal/copytrade.shtml
>
>> http://welcome.hp.com/country/us/en/termsofuse.html
>
>
>> Shouldn't we create a similar "Terms of Use" page (covering License,
>
>> Trademark, Privacy, ...) for all ASF projects to link to in the footer
>
>> of our web and wiki pages?
>
>
>
>> -Donald
>
>
>
>> Lawrence Rosen wrote:
>
>>> Hi Craig,
>
>
>>> I took your complaint to be about the complexities of trademark law, not
>
>>> about me. :-) I'm merely today's messenger with a confusing message.
>
>
>>> Here's an example that you may find useful, for a dessert website:
>
>
>>> **************
>
>
>>> Welcome to the Jello Brand gelatin recipe cookbook, brought to you by
>
>> the
>
>>> Kraft Foods Company.
>
>
>>> Select among the following:
>
>>> * Flavors of Jello gelatin
>
>>> * Jello and Fruit: The Perfect Combination
>
>>> * Whipped Jello for a Romantic Evening Soiree
>
>>> * Feeding a large family with Jello
>
>>> * Textbook on the chemistry of Jello and other brands of gelatin
>
>
>>> ***************
>
>
>>> Notice that I slipped casually from strong trademark ("Jello brand
>
>> gelatin")
>
>>> to adjective ("Jello gelatin") to noun (just "Jello"), which is
>
>> unavoidable
>
>>> in casual speech, and perfectly legal. Trademark law fortunately doesn't
>
>>> require that we all take a refresher course in English grammar or
>
>>> continually utter certain magic words!
>
>
>>> Here's what I would expect in terms of branding Apache OpenJPA:
>
>
>>> 1. The OpenJPA website should start with a specific feather logo that
>
>>> identifies it as a website of the Apache Software Foundation. This logo
>
>>> should include the words "Apache Software Foundation" and a pointer to
>
>> our
>
>>> main website homepage, www.apache.org. In fact, if you click on that
>
>> logo
>
>>> you should go to the ASF homepage.
>
>
>>> 2. Somewhere prominent, the banner on the first page of the OpenJPA
>
>> website
>
>>> should identify the "Apache (TM) OpenJPA Project". That "TM" can be
>
>> fairly
>
>>> small, but not invisible. Then the body of the page can use the terms
>
>>> "OpenJPA project" or "OpenJPA team" or even "committers to OpenJPA" when
>
>> you
>
>>> mean your ASF project.
>
>
>>> 3. Then I expect the first prominent reference to the output of the
>
>> OpenJPA
>
>>> project to say that you produce and distribute "Apache OpenJPA (TM)
>
>> software
>
>>> that implements Sun's Java Persistence API (JPA) specification for the
>
>>> transparent persistence of Java objects" (or whatever is appropriate and
>
>>> true). Again, the "TM" can be fairly small, but not invisible; if you
>
>> don't
>
>>> want to bother claiming a trademark on "OpenJPA", simply leave off that
>
>> TM.
>
>
>>> 4. From then on, when referring to the software, you can say things
>
>> like:
>
>>> * Unit tests for OpenJPA
>
>>> * Downloading OpenJPA software
>
>>> * OpenJPA is distributed under Apache License 2.0
>
>>> * How is OpenJPA implemented?
>
>>> * Apache OpenJPA integrates with Apache Tomcat.
>
>>> * The sixth iteration of OpenJPA is complete!
>
>
>>> ...and lots of other casual uses that engineers should be able to utter
>
>> with
>
>>> ease and complete freedom.
>
>
>>> 5. At the bottom, in small but not invisible letters, include all the
>
>>> appropriate copyright and trademark and licensing notices to assert that
>
>> ASF
>
>>> is the owner of whatever intellectual property we claim. To be polite,
>
>> you
>
>>> can identify that "Java is a trademark of Sun Microsystems (or Oracle)."
>
>
>>> /Larry
>
>
>
>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>
>>>> From: Craig.Russell@Sun.COM [mailto:Craig.Russell@Sun.COM]
>
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2009 11:46 AM
>
>>>> To: lrosen@rosenlaw.com
>
>>>> Cc: 'ASF PRC Team'; dev@openjpa.apache.org
>
>>>> Subject: Re: Apache trademarks on OpenJPA web site
>
>
>>>> Hi Larry,
>
>
>>>> On May 18, 2009, at 9:58 PM, Lawrence Rosen wrote:
>
>
>>>>> Craig Russell complained:
>
>>>> First, let me be clear. I'm not complaining. I'm trying to understand
>
>>>> just what we need to do in our public face to be compliant with an
>
>>>> Apache policy that allows Apache to promote and enforce our marks.
>
>
>>>> My questions really are just questions. They are not rhetorical or
>
>>>> argumentative. Please don't read any belligerence into the questions.
>
>>>>>> You've reminded me of the trademark rules that have given most
>
>>>>>> engineers angina: that trademarks are not nouns but adjectives. This
>
>>>>>> little trick is what makes normal text look like legalese once
>
>>>>>> lawyers
>
>>>>>> get hold of it.
>
>>>>> I'm aware of the pain that causes, and I don't want to turn Apache
>
>>>>> web pages
>
>>>>> into legalese.
>
>
>>>>> The first major use of a trademark on a web page ought to be, in
>
>>>>> some way, a
>
>>>>> combination of the trademark as an adjective modifying the
>
>>>>> "official" noun.
>
>>>> The trouble for OpenJPA is that there's no "official" noun. "Software"
>
>>>> is certainly an appropriate noun, as are "program", "library",
>
>>>> "package", and "implementation". So should we choose for each project
>
>>>> an official noun and be consistent with its "first use" on each web
>
>>>> page?
>
>>>>> That is so you can educate your readers about your trademark and your
>
>>>>> product. But it needn't be in sentence form, nor even contain words
>
>>>>> in their
>
>>>>> normal English usages or sequence. There are lots of creative ways to
>
>>>>> introduce trademarks to the public.
>
>
>>>>> So I totally approve of your "OpenJPA is Apache's implementation of
>
>>>>> Sun's
>
>>>>> Java Persistence API (JPA) specification for the transparent
>
>>>>> persistence of
>
>>>>> Java objects."
>
>>>> This confuses me. The use of OpenJPA here seems like a noun.
>
>
>>>>> You needn't say "OpenJPA software" since you said "OpenJPA
>
>>>>> implementation".
>
>>>> Not exactly. It doesn't say "OpenJPA implementation is Apache's
>
>>>> implementation". It would actually sound better to me to say "OpenJPA
>
>>>> software is Apache's implementation."
>
>
>>>> So if it's not a noun, it would never be ok to say "OpenJPA is
>
>>>> <something>". It would have to be "OpenJPA Software is <something>."
>
>>>>> They sort of mean the same thing, I think. I'd want you to be more
>
>>>>> precise
>
>>>>> if I intended to file a trademark registration with the USPTO, but
>
>>>>> for a
>
>>>>> common law trademark, I think that works just fine. Maybe I'd ask that
>
>>>>> somewhere you say "click here to download Apache OpenJPA software."
>
>>>> That's easy to do once we understand the rules.
>
>
>>>>> But otherwise, don't change that website.
>
>
>>>>> What I objected to in my previous email was the first sentence on your
>
>>>>> http://openjpa.apache.org/unit-tests.html page, "OpenJPA's unit
>
>>>>> tests are
>
>>>>> written using JUnit." That sentence doesn't give anyone a clue what
>
>>>>> noun the
>
>>>>> adjective OpenJPA modifies. Nor have I ever seen an apostrophe-s on an
>
>>>>> English adjective. :-)
>
>>>> Right, back to our noun versus adjective. The sentence doesn't make
>
>>>> sense with OpenJPA as an adjective. As an adjective, it could be
>
>>>> "OpenJPA unit tests", since part of the OpenJPA implementation
>
>>>> consists of unit tests. But OpenJPA is not just unit tests. It's also
>
>>>> a functional piece of software.
>
>
>>>> But our official documentation is full of "OpenJPA as noun" and not
>
>>>> "OpenJPA as adjective". So I'm really struggling with whether it's
>
>>>> just the "first use" on a page that needs to use OpenJPA Software or
>
>>>> not.
>
>
>>>>> /Larry (with my English teacher hat on that I dug out of the very
>
>>>>> back of my
>
>>>>> closet)
>
>
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>
>>>>>> From: Craig.Russell@Sun.COM [mailto:Craig.Russell@Sun.COM]
>
>>>>>> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 2:10 PM
>
>>>>>> To: lrosen@rosenlaw.com
>
>>>>>> Cc: 'ASF PRC Team'; dev@openjpa.apache.org
>
>>>>>> Subject: Re: Apache trademarks on OpenJPA web site
>
>
>>>>>> Hi Larry,
>
>
>>>>>> On May 18, 2009, at 10:45 AM, Lawrence Rosen wrote:
>
>
>>>>>>> 3. Trademarks should be used as adjectives, not nouns. So the
>
>>>>>>> following
>
>>>>>>> sentence is incorrect trademark usage: "OpenJPA's unit tests are
>
>>>>>>> written
>
>>>>>>> using JUnit." Consider rewriting as "Unit tests for Apache OpenJPA
>
>>>>>>> persistence project software are written using the JUnit testing
>
>>>>>>> framework."
>
>>>>>>> Always assume that customers have to be taught to associate the
>
>>>>>>> trademark
>
>>>>>>> with the noun in modifies. Once they've done that in their minds,
>
>>>>>>> then you
>
>>>>>>> have a very valuable trademark.
>
>
>>>>>>> /Larry
>
>
>>>>>> You've reminded me of the trademark rules that have given most
>
>>>>>> engineers angina: that trademarks are not nouns but adjectives. This
>
>>>>>> little trick is what makes normal text look like legalese once
>
>>>>>> lawyers
>
>>>>>> get hold of it.
>
>
>>>>>> Where we say "OpenJPA is Apache's implementation of Sun's Java
>
>>>>>> Persistence API (JPA) specification for the transparent persistence
>
>>>>>> of
>
>>>>>> Java objects. This document provides an overview of the JPA standard
>
>>>>>> and technical details on the use of OpenJPA." we would have to say,
>
>>>>>> instead, "OpenJPA software is Apache's implementation of Sun's Java
>
>>>>>> Persistence API (JPA) specification for the transparent persistence
>
>>>>>> of
>
>>>>>> Java objects. This document provides an overview of the JPA standard
>
>>>>>> and technical details on the use of OpenJPA software."
>
>
>>>>>> Did I get this right?
>
>
>>>>>> Thanks,
>
>
>>>>>> Craig
>
>
>
>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>
>>>>>>>> From: Craig.Russell@Sun.COM [mailto:Craig.Russell@Sun.COM]
>
>>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 8:49 AM
>
>>>>>>>> To: ASF PRC Team
>
>>>>>>>> Cc: dev@openjpa.apache.org
>
>>>>>>>> Subject: Apache trademarks on OpenJPA web site
>
>
>>>>>>>> Hi PRC,
>
>
>>>>>>>> We've finished updating the OpenJPA web site master pages to
>
>>>>>>>> include
>
>>>>>>>> Apache trademarks in an obvious but not obtrusive way.
>
>
>>>>>>>> http://openjpa.apache.org/unit-tests.html is an example.
>
>
>>>>>>>> Please let us know if this is in accordance with the current
>
>>>>>>>> trademark
>
>>>>>>>> notice policy.
>
>
>>>>>>>> Thanks,
>
>
>>>>>>>> Craig
>
>
>>>>>>>> Craig L Russell
>
>>>>>>>> Architect, Sun Java Enterprise System http://db.apache.org/jdo
>
>>>>>>>> 408 276-5638 mailto:Craig.Russell@sun.com
>
>>>>>>>> P.S. A good JDO? O, Gasp!
>
>
>>>>>> Craig L Russell
>
>>>>>> Architect, Sun Java Enterprise System http://db.apache.org/jdo
>
>>>>>> 408 276-5638 mailto:Craig.Russell@sun.com
>
>>>>>> P.S. A good JDO? O, Gasp!
>
>
>>>> Craig L Russell
>
>>>> Architect, Sun Java Enterprise System http://db.apache.org/jdo
>
>>>> 408 276-5638 mailto:Craig.Russell@sun.com
>
>>>> P.S. A good JDO? O, Gasp!
>
>
>
>
>
RE: Apache trademarks on OpenJPA web site
Posted by Lawrence Rosen <lr...@rosenlaw.com>.
Donald Woods asked about notices at the bottom of our web pages:
> For #5, why should we put the burden on every project to list individual
> trademarks? If you look at other websites such as:
<snip>
I don't suggest that we put a burden on anyone. I hope there will be a page
at www.apache.org <http://www.apache.org/> that will list all our
trademarks. That will become the official list and the official notice.
What I suggest is the following two sentences at the bottom of our web
pages, in small print:
Copyright (C) 2009 Apache Software Foundation. Licensed under Apache License
2.0 (see www.apache.org <http://www.apache.org/> ).
Apache and the Apache feather logo are trademarks of Apache Software
Foundation.
I don't consider that much of a burden. While those notices are not legally
required, there are certain legal advantages to our including those notices
(particularly a copyright notice!) in small print almost everywhere.
If you prefer to replace that with a "Terms of Use" link, that's also
effective, although I don't believe it offers the same legal advantages as
explicit copyright notices on the pages themselves. But hey, we're not going
to sue anyone anyway, so perhaps I'm being over-protective? Or you
over-burdened? :-)
All other notices would be entirely optional to the project, such as
acknowledgement of Sun's "Java" trademark, or notice of the project's own
trademarks.
/Larry
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Donald Woods [mailto:dwoods@apache.org]
> Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 2009 6:12 AM
> To: dev@openjpa.apache.org
> Cc: Craig.Russell@Sun.COM; 'ASF PRC Team'
> Subject: Re: Apache trademarks on OpenJPA web site
>
> For #5, why should we put the burden on every project to list individual
> trademarks? If you look at other websites such as:
> java.net
> code.google.com
> sourceforge.net
> www.sun.com
> www.ibm.com
> www.hp.com
> they don't list trademarks on their main website pages. Each have a
> "Terms of Use" link at the bottom, which leads to a Legal page that
> either contains trademark statements or links to a subpage which lists
> the trademarks -
> http://java.net/terms.csp - Section 5c
> http://code.google.com/tos.html - Section 4
> http://apps.sourceforge.net/trac/sitelegal/wiki/Terms%20of%20Use -
> Section 6
> http://www.sun.com/suntrademarks/
> http://www.ibm.com/legal/copytrade.shtml
> http://welcome.hp.com/country/us/en/termsofuse.html
>
> Shouldn't we create a similar "Terms of Use" page (covering License,
> Trademark, Privacy, ...) for all ASF projects to link to in the footer
> of our web and wiki pages?
>
>
> -Donald
>
>
> Lawrence Rosen wrote:
> > Hi Craig,
> >
> > I took your complaint to be about the complexities of trademark law, not
> > about me. :-) I'm merely today's messenger with a confusing message.
> >
> > Here's an example that you may find useful, for a dessert website:
> >
> > **************
> >
> > Welcome to the Jello Brand gelatin recipe cookbook, brought to you by
> the
> > Kraft Foods Company.
> >
> > Select among the following:
> > * Flavors of Jello gelatin
> > * Jello and Fruit: The Perfect Combination
> > * Whipped Jello for a Romantic Evening Soiree
> > * Feeding a large family with Jello
> > * Textbook on the chemistry of Jello and other brands of gelatin
> >
> > ***************
> >
> > Notice that I slipped casually from strong trademark ("Jello brand
> gelatin")
> > to adjective ("Jello gelatin") to noun (just "Jello"), which is
> unavoidable
> > in casual speech, and perfectly legal. Trademark law fortunately doesn't
> > require that we all take a refresher course in English grammar or
> > continually utter certain magic words!
> >
> > Here's what I would expect in terms of branding Apache OpenJPA:
> >
> > 1. The OpenJPA website should start with a specific feather logo that
> > identifies it as a website of the Apache Software Foundation. This logo
> > should include the words "Apache Software Foundation" and a pointer to
> our
> > main website homepage, www.apache.org. In fact, if you click on that
> logo
> > you should go to the ASF homepage.
> >
> > 2. Somewhere prominent, the banner on the first page of the OpenJPA
> website
> > should identify the "Apache (TM) OpenJPA Project". That "TM" can be
> fairly
> > small, but not invisible. Then the body of the page can use the terms
> > "OpenJPA project" or "OpenJPA team" or even "committers to OpenJPA" when
> you
> > mean your ASF project.
> >
> > 3. Then I expect the first prominent reference to the output of the
> OpenJPA
> > project to say that you produce and distribute "Apache OpenJPA (TM)
> software
> > that implements Sun's Java Persistence API (JPA) specification for the
> > transparent persistence of Java objects" (or whatever is appropriate and
> > true). Again, the "TM" can be fairly small, but not invisible; if you
> don't
> > want to bother claiming a trademark on "OpenJPA", simply leave off that
> TM.
> >
> > 4. From then on, when referring to the software, you can say things
> like:
> > * Unit tests for OpenJPA
> > * Downloading OpenJPA software
> > * OpenJPA is distributed under Apache License 2.0
> > * How is OpenJPA implemented?
> > * Apache OpenJPA integrates with Apache Tomcat.
> > * The sixth iteration of OpenJPA is complete!
> >
> > ...and lots of other casual uses that engineers should be able to utter
> with
> > ease and complete freedom.
> >
> > 5. At the bottom, in small but not invisible letters, include all the
> > appropriate copyright and trademark and licensing notices to assert that
> ASF
> > is the owner of whatever intellectual property we claim. To be polite,
> you
> > can identify that "Java is a trademark of Sun Microsystems (or Oracle)."
> >
> > /Larry
> >
> >
> >
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: Craig.Russell@Sun.COM [mailto:Craig.Russell@Sun.COM]
> >> Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2009 11:46 AM
> >> To: lrosen@rosenlaw.com
> >> Cc: 'ASF PRC Team'; dev@openjpa.apache.org
> >> Subject: Re: Apache trademarks on OpenJPA web site
> >>
> >> Hi Larry,
> >>
> >> On May 18, 2009, at 9:58 PM, Lawrence Rosen wrote:
> >>
> >>> Craig Russell complained:
> >> First, let me be clear. I'm not complaining. I'm trying to understand
> >> just what we need to do in our public face to be compliant with an
> >> Apache policy that allows Apache to promote and enforce our marks.
> >>
> >> My questions really are just questions. They are not rhetorical or
> >> argumentative. Please don't read any belligerence into the questions.
> >>>> You've reminded me of the trademark rules that have given most
> >>>> engineers angina: that trademarks are not nouns but adjectives. This
> >>>> little trick is what makes normal text look like legalese once
> >>>> lawyers
> >>>> get hold of it.
> >>> I'm aware of the pain that causes, and I don't want to turn Apache
> >>> web pages
> >>> into legalese.
> >>>
> >>> The first major use of a trademark on a web page ought to be, in
> >>> some way, a
> >>> combination of the trademark as an adjective modifying the
> >>> "official" noun.
> >> The trouble for OpenJPA is that there's no "official" noun. "Software"
> >> is certainly an appropriate noun, as are "program", "library",
> >> "package", and "implementation". So should we choose for each project
> >> an official noun and be consistent with its "first use" on each web
> >> page?
> >>> That is so you can educate your readers about your trademark and your
> >>> product. But it needn't be in sentence form, nor even contain words
> >>> in their
> >>> normal English usages or sequence. There are lots of creative ways to
> >>> introduce trademarks to the public.
> >>>
> >>> So I totally approve of your "OpenJPA is Apache's implementation of
> >>> Sun's
> >>> Java Persistence API (JPA) specification for the transparent
> >>> persistence of
> >>> Java objects."
> >> This confuses me. The use of OpenJPA here seems like a noun.
> >>>
> >>> You needn't say "OpenJPA software" since you said "OpenJPA
> >>> implementation".
> >> Not exactly. It doesn't say "OpenJPA implementation is Apache's
> >> implementation". It would actually sound better to me to say "OpenJPA
> >> software is Apache's implementation."
> >>
> >> So if it's not a noun, it would never be ok to say "OpenJPA is
> >> <something>". It would have to be "OpenJPA Software is <something>."
> >>> They sort of mean the same thing, I think. I'd want you to be more
> >>> precise
> >>> if I intended to file a trademark registration with the USPTO, but
> >>> for a
> >>> common law trademark, I think that works just fine. Maybe I'd ask that
> >>> somewhere you say "click here to download Apache OpenJPA software."
> >> That's easy to do once we understand the rules.
> >>
> >>> But otherwise, don't change that website.
> >>>
> >>> What I objected to in my previous email was the first sentence on your
> >>> http://openjpa.apache.org/unit-tests.html page, "OpenJPA's unit
> >>> tests are
> >>> written using JUnit." That sentence doesn't give anyone a clue what
> >>> noun the
> >>> adjective OpenJPA modifies. Nor have I ever seen an apostrophe-s on an
> >>> English adjective. :-)
> >> Right, back to our noun versus adjective. The sentence doesn't make
> >> sense with OpenJPA as an adjective. As an adjective, it could be
> >> "OpenJPA unit tests", since part of the OpenJPA implementation
> >> consists of unit tests. But OpenJPA is not just unit tests. It's also
> >> a functional piece of software.
> >>
> >> But our official documentation is full of "OpenJPA as noun" and not
> >> "OpenJPA as adjective". So I'm really struggling with whether it's
> >> just the "first use" on a page that needs to use OpenJPA Software or
> >> not.
> >>>
> >>> /Larry (with my English teacher hat on that I dug out of the very
> >>> back of my
> >>> closet)
> >>>
> >>>> -----Original Message-----
> >>>> From: Craig.Russell@Sun.COM [mailto:Craig.Russell@Sun.COM]
> >>>> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 2:10 PM
> >>>> To: lrosen@rosenlaw.com
> >>>> Cc: 'ASF PRC Team'; dev@openjpa.apache.org
> >>>> Subject: Re: Apache trademarks on OpenJPA web site
> >>>>
> >>>> Hi Larry,
> >>>>
> >>>> On May 18, 2009, at 10:45 AM, Lawrence Rosen wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> 3. Trademarks should be used as adjectives, not nouns. So the
> >>>>> following
> >>>>> sentence is incorrect trademark usage: "OpenJPA's unit tests are
> >>>>> written
> >>>>> using JUnit." Consider rewriting as "Unit tests for Apache OpenJPA
> >>>>> persistence project software are written using the JUnit testing
> >>>>> framework."
> >>>>> Always assume that customers have to be taught to associate the
> >>>>> trademark
> >>>>> with the noun in modifies. Once they've done that in their minds,
> >>>>> then you
> >>>>> have a very valuable trademark.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> /Larry
> >>>>>
> >>>> You've reminded me of the trademark rules that have given most
> >>>> engineers angina: that trademarks are not nouns but adjectives. This
> >>>> little trick is what makes normal text look like legalese once
> >>>> lawyers
> >>>> get hold of it.
> >>>>
> >>>> Where we say "OpenJPA is Apache's implementation of Sun's Java
> >>>> Persistence API (JPA) specification for the transparent persistence
> >>>> of
> >>>> Java objects. This document provides an overview of the JPA standard
> >>>> and technical details on the use of OpenJPA." we would have to say,
> >>>> instead, "OpenJPA software is Apache's implementation of Sun's Java
> >>>> Persistence API (JPA) specification for the transparent persistence
> >>>> of
> >>>> Java objects. This document provides an overview of the JPA standard
> >>>> and technical details on the use of OpenJPA software."
> >>>>
> >>>> Did I get this right?
> >>>>
> >>>> Thanks,
> >>>>
> >>>> Craig
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> -----Original Message-----
> >>>>>> From: Craig.Russell@Sun.COM [mailto:Craig.Russell@Sun.COM]
> >>>>>> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 8:49 AM
> >>>>>> To: ASF PRC Team
> >>>>>> Cc: dev@openjpa.apache.org
> >>>>>> Subject: Apache trademarks on OpenJPA web site
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Hi PRC,
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> We've finished updating the OpenJPA web site master pages to
> >>>>>> include
> >>>>>> Apache trademarks in an obvious but not obtrusive way.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> http://openjpa.apache.org/unit-tests.html is an example.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Please let us know if this is in accordance with the current
> >>>>>> trademark
> >>>>>> notice policy.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Thanks,
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Craig
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Craig L Russell
> >>>>>> Architect, Sun Java Enterprise System http://db.apache.org/jdo
> >>>>>> 408 276-5638 mailto:Craig.Russell@sun.com
> >>>>>> P.S. A good JDO? O, Gasp!
> >>>>>
> >>>> Craig L Russell
> >>>> Architect, Sun Java Enterprise System http://db.apache.org/jdo
> >>>> 408 276-5638 mailto:Craig.Russell@sun.com
> >>>> P.S. A good JDO? O, Gasp!
> >>>
> >> Craig L Russell
> >> Architect, Sun Java Enterprise System http://db.apache.org/jdo
> >> 408 276-5638 mailto:Craig.Russell@sun.com
> >> P.S. A good JDO? O, Gasp!
> >
> >
> >
Re: Apache trademarks on OpenJPA web site
Posted by Donald Woods <dw...@apache.org>.
For #5, why should we put the burden on every project to list individual
trademarks? If you look at other websites such as:
java.net
code.google.com
sourceforge.net
www.sun.com
www.ibm.com
www.hp.com
they don't list trademarks on their main website pages. Each have a
"Terms of Use" link at the bottom, which leads to a Legal page that
either contains trademark statements or links to a subpage which lists
the trademarks -
http://java.net/terms.csp - Section 5c
http://code.google.com/tos.html - Section 4
http://apps.sourceforge.net/trac/sitelegal/wiki/Terms%20of%20Use -
Section 6
http://www.sun.com/suntrademarks/
http://www.ibm.com/legal/copytrade.shtml
http://welcome.hp.com/country/us/en/termsofuse.html
Shouldn't we create a similar "Terms of Use" page (covering License,
Trademark, Privacy, ...) for all ASF projects to link to in the footer
of our web and wiki pages?
-Donald
Lawrence Rosen wrote:
> Hi Craig,
>
> I took your complaint to be about the complexities of trademark law, not
> about me. :-) I'm merely today's messenger with a confusing message.
>
> Here's an example that you may find useful, for a dessert website:
>
> **************
>
> Welcome to the Jello Brand gelatin recipe cookbook, brought to you by the
> Kraft Foods Company.
>
> Select among the following:
> * Flavors of Jello gelatin
> * Jello and Fruit: The Perfect Combination
> * Whipped Jello for a Romantic Evening Soiree
> * Feeding a large family with Jello
> * Textbook on the chemistry of Jello and other brands of gelatin
>
> ***************
>
> Notice that I slipped casually from strong trademark ("Jello brand gelatin")
> to adjective ("Jello gelatin") to noun (just "Jello"), which is unavoidable
> in casual speech, and perfectly legal. Trademark law fortunately doesn't
> require that we all take a refresher course in English grammar or
> continually utter certain magic words!
>
> Here's what I would expect in terms of branding Apache OpenJPA:
>
> 1. The OpenJPA website should start with a specific feather logo that
> identifies it as a website of the Apache Software Foundation. This logo
> should include the words "Apache Software Foundation" and a pointer to our
> main website homepage, www.apache.org. In fact, if you click on that logo
> you should go to the ASF homepage.
>
> 2. Somewhere prominent, the banner on the first page of the OpenJPA website
> should identify the "Apache (TM) OpenJPA Project". That "TM" can be fairly
> small, but not invisible. Then the body of the page can use the terms
> "OpenJPA project" or "OpenJPA team" or even "committers to OpenJPA" when you
> mean your ASF project.
>
> 3. Then I expect the first prominent reference to the output of the OpenJPA
> project to say that you produce and distribute "Apache OpenJPA (TM) software
> that implements Sun's Java Persistence API (JPA) specification for the
> transparent persistence of Java objects" (or whatever is appropriate and
> true). Again, the "TM" can be fairly small, but not invisible; if you don't
> want to bother claiming a trademark on "OpenJPA", simply leave off that TM.
>
> 4. From then on, when referring to the software, you can say things like:
> * Unit tests for OpenJPA
> * Downloading OpenJPA software
> * OpenJPA is distributed under Apache License 2.0
> * How is OpenJPA implemented?
> * Apache OpenJPA integrates with Apache Tomcat.
> * The sixth iteration of OpenJPA is complete!
>
> ...and lots of other casual uses that engineers should be able to utter with
> ease and complete freedom.
>
> 5. At the bottom, in small but not invisible letters, include all the
> appropriate copyright and trademark and licensing notices to assert that ASF
> is the owner of whatever intellectual property we claim. To be polite, you
> can identify that "Java is a trademark of Sun Microsystems (or Oracle)."
>
> /Larry
>
>
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Craig.Russell@Sun.COM [mailto:Craig.Russell@Sun.COM]
>> Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2009 11:46 AM
>> To: lrosen@rosenlaw.com
>> Cc: 'ASF PRC Team'; dev@openjpa.apache.org
>> Subject: Re: Apache trademarks on OpenJPA web site
>>
>> Hi Larry,
>>
>> On May 18, 2009, at 9:58 PM, Lawrence Rosen wrote:
>>
>>> Craig Russell complained:
>> First, let me be clear. I'm not complaining. I'm trying to understand
>> just what we need to do in our public face to be compliant with an
>> Apache policy that allows Apache to promote and enforce our marks.
>>
>> My questions really are just questions. They are not rhetorical or
>> argumentative. Please don't read any belligerence into the questions.
>>>> You've reminded me of the trademark rules that have given most
>>>> engineers angina: that trademarks are not nouns but adjectives. This
>>>> little trick is what makes normal text look like legalese once
>>>> lawyers
>>>> get hold of it.
>>> I'm aware of the pain that causes, and I don't want to turn Apache
>>> web pages
>>> into legalese.
>>>
>>> The first major use of a trademark on a web page ought to be, in
>>> some way, a
>>> combination of the trademark as an adjective modifying the
>>> "official" noun.
>> The trouble for OpenJPA is that there's no "official" noun. "Software"
>> is certainly an appropriate noun, as are "program", "library",
>> "package", and "implementation". So should we choose for each project
>> an official noun and be consistent with its "first use" on each web
>> page?
>>> That is so you can educate your readers about your trademark and your
>>> product. But it needn't be in sentence form, nor even contain words
>>> in their
>>> normal English usages or sequence. There are lots of creative ways to
>>> introduce trademarks to the public.
>>>
>>> So I totally approve of your "OpenJPA is Apache's implementation of
>>> Sun's
>>> Java Persistence API (JPA) specification for the transparent
>>> persistence of
>>> Java objects."
>> This confuses me. The use of OpenJPA here seems like a noun.
>>>
>>> You needn't say "OpenJPA software" since you said "OpenJPA
>>> implementation".
>> Not exactly. It doesn't say "OpenJPA implementation is Apache's
>> implementation". It would actually sound better to me to say "OpenJPA
>> software is Apache's implementation."
>>
>> So if it's not a noun, it would never be ok to say "OpenJPA is
>> <something>". It would have to be "OpenJPA Software is <something>."
>>> They sort of mean the same thing, I think. I'd want you to be more
>>> precise
>>> if I intended to file a trademark registration with the USPTO, but
>>> for a
>>> common law trademark, I think that works just fine. Maybe I'd ask that
>>> somewhere you say "click here to download Apache OpenJPA software."
>> That's easy to do once we understand the rules.
>>
>>> But otherwise, don't change that website.
>>>
>>> What I objected to in my previous email was the first sentence on your
>>> http://openjpa.apache.org/unit-tests.html page, "OpenJPA's unit
>>> tests are
>>> written using JUnit." That sentence doesn't give anyone a clue what
>>> noun the
>>> adjective OpenJPA modifies. Nor have I ever seen an apostrophe-s on an
>>> English adjective. :-)
>> Right, back to our noun versus adjective. The sentence doesn't make
>> sense with OpenJPA as an adjective. As an adjective, it could be
>> "OpenJPA unit tests", since part of the OpenJPA implementation
>> consists of unit tests. But OpenJPA is not just unit tests. It's also
>> a functional piece of software.
>>
>> But our official documentation is full of "OpenJPA as noun" and not
>> "OpenJPA as adjective". So I'm really struggling with whether it's
>> just the "first use" on a page that needs to use OpenJPA Software or
>> not.
>>>
>>> /Larry (with my English teacher hat on that I dug out of the very
>>> back of my
>>> closet)
>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: Craig.Russell@Sun.COM [mailto:Craig.Russell@Sun.COM]
>>>> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 2:10 PM
>>>> To: lrosen@rosenlaw.com
>>>> Cc: 'ASF PRC Team'; dev@openjpa.apache.org
>>>> Subject: Re: Apache trademarks on OpenJPA web site
>>>>
>>>> Hi Larry,
>>>>
>>>> On May 18, 2009, at 10:45 AM, Lawrence Rosen wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> 3. Trademarks should be used as adjectives, not nouns. So the
>>>>> following
>>>>> sentence is incorrect trademark usage: "OpenJPA's unit tests are
>>>>> written
>>>>> using JUnit." Consider rewriting as "Unit tests for Apache OpenJPA
>>>>> persistence project software are written using the JUnit testing
>>>>> framework."
>>>>> Always assume that customers have to be taught to associate the
>>>>> trademark
>>>>> with the noun in modifies. Once they've done that in their minds,
>>>>> then you
>>>>> have a very valuable trademark.
>>>>>
>>>>> /Larry
>>>>>
>>>> You've reminded me of the trademark rules that have given most
>>>> engineers angina: that trademarks are not nouns but adjectives. This
>>>> little trick is what makes normal text look like legalese once
>>>> lawyers
>>>> get hold of it.
>>>>
>>>> Where we say "OpenJPA is Apache's implementation of Sun's Java
>>>> Persistence API (JPA) specification for the transparent persistence
>>>> of
>>>> Java objects. This document provides an overview of the JPA standard
>>>> and technical details on the use of OpenJPA." we would have to say,
>>>> instead, "OpenJPA software is Apache's implementation of Sun's Java
>>>> Persistence API (JPA) specification for the transparent persistence
>>>> of
>>>> Java objects. This document provides an overview of the JPA standard
>>>> and technical details on the use of OpenJPA software."
>>>>
>>>> Did I get this right?
>>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>>
>>>> Craig
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: Craig.Russell@Sun.COM [mailto:Craig.Russell@Sun.COM]
>>>>>> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 8:49 AM
>>>>>> To: ASF PRC Team
>>>>>> Cc: dev@openjpa.apache.org
>>>>>> Subject: Apache trademarks on OpenJPA web site
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi PRC,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> We've finished updating the OpenJPA web site master pages to
>>>>>> include
>>>>>> Apache trademarks in an obvious but not obtrusive way.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://openjpa.apache.org/unit-tests.html is an example.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Please let us know if this is in accordance with the current
>>>>>> trademark
>>>>>> notice policy.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Craig
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Craig L Russell
>>>>>> Architect, Sun Java Enterprise System http://db.apache.org/jdo
>>>>>> 408 276-5638 mailto:Craig.Russell@sun.com
>>>>>> P.S. A good JDO? O, Gasp!
>>>>>
>>>> Craig L Russell
>>>> Architect, Sun Java Enterprise System http://db.apache.org/jdo
>>>> 408 276-5638 mailto:Craig.Russell@sun.com
>>>> P.S. A good JDO? O, Gasp!
>>>
>> Craig L Russell
>> Architect, Sun Java Enterprise System http://db.apache.org/jdo
>> 408 276-5638 mailto:Craig.Russell@sun.com
>> P.S. A good JDO? O, Gasp!
>
>
>
RE: Apache trademarks on OpenJPA web site
Posted by Lawrence Rosen <lr...@rosenlaw.com>.
Hi Craig,
I took your complaint to be about the complexities of trademark law, not
about me. :-) I'm merely today's messenger with a confusing message.
Here's an example that you may find useful, for a dessert website:
**************
Welcome to the Jello Brand gelatin recipe cookbook, brought to you by the
Kraft Foods Company.
Select among the following:
* Flavors of Jello gelatin
* Jello and Fruit: The Perfect Combination
* Whipped Jello for a Romantic Evening Soiree
* Feeding a large family with Jello
* Textbook on the chemistry of Jello and other brands of gelatin
***************
Notice that I slipped casually from strong trademark ("Jello brand gelatin")
to adjective ("Jello gelatin") to noun (just "Jello"), which is unavoidable
in casual speech, and perfectly legal. Trademark law fortunately doesn't
require that we all take a refresher course in English grammar or
continually utter certain magic words!
Here's what I would expect in terms of branding Apache OpenJPA:
1. The OpenJPA website should start with a specific feather logo that
identifies it as a website of the Apache Software Foundation. This logo
should include the words "Apache Software Foundation" and a pointer to our
main website homepage, www.apache.org. In fact, if you click on that logo
you should go to the ASF homepage.
2. Somewhere prominent, the banner on the first page of the OpenJPA website
should identify the "Apache (TM) OpenJPA Project". That "TM" can be fairly
small, but not invisible. Then the body of the page can use the terms
"OpenJPA project" or "OpenJPA team" or even "committers to OpenJPA" when you
mean your ASF project.
3. Then I expect the first prominent reference to the output of the OpenJPA
project to say that you produce and distribute "Apache OpenJPA (TM) software
that implements Sun's Java Persistence API (JPA) specification for the
transparent persistence of Java objects" (or whatever is appropriate and
true). Again, the "TM" can be fairly small, but not invisible; if you don't
want to bother claiming a trademark on "OpenJPA", simply leave off that TM.
4. From then on, when referring to the software, you can say things like:
* Unit tests for OpenJPA
* Downloading OpenJPA software
* OpenJPA is distributed under Apache License 2.0
* How is OpenJPA implemented?
* Apache OpenJPA integrates with Apache Tomcat.
* The sixth iteration of OpenJPA is complete!
...and lots of other casual uses that engineers should be able to utter with
ease and complete freedom.
5. At the bottom, in small but not invisible letters, include all the
appropriate copyright and trademark and licensing notices to assert that ASF
is the owner of whatever intellectual property we claim. To be polite, you
can identify that "Java is a trademark of Sun Microsystems (or Oracle)."
/Larry
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Craig.Russell@Sun.COM [mailto:Craig.Russell@Sun.COM]
> Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2009 11:46 AM
> To: lrosen@rosenlaw.com
> Cc: 'ASF PRC Team'; dev@openjpa.apache.org
> Subject: Re: Apache trademarks on OpenJPA web site
>
> Hi Larry,
>
> On May 18, 2009, at 9:58 PM, Lawrence Rosen wrote:
>
> > Craig Russell complained:
>
> First, let me be clear. I'm not complaining. I'm trying to understand
> just what we need to do in our public face to be compliant with an
> Apache policy that allows Apache to promote and enforce our marks.
>
> My questions really are just questions. They are not rhetorical or
> argumentative. Please don't read any belligerence into the questions.
> >
> >> You've reminded me of the trademark rules that have given most
> >> engineers angina: that trademarks are not nouns but adjectives. This
> >> little trick is what makes normal text look like legalese once
> >> lawyers
> >> get hold of it.
> >
> > I'm aware of the pain that causes, and I don't want to turn Apache
> > web pages
> > into legalese.
> >
> > The first major use of a trademark on a web page ought to be, in
> > some way, a
> > combination of the trademark as an adjective modifying the
> > "official" noun.
>
> The trouble for OpenJPA is that there's no "official" noun. "Software"
> is certainly an appropriate noun, as are "program", "library",
> "package", and "implementation". So should we choose for each project
> an official noun and be consistent with its "first use" on each web
> page?
> >
> > That is so you can educate your readers about your trademark and your
> > product. But it needn't be in sentence form, nor even contain words
> > in their
> > normal English usages or sequence. There are lots of creative ways to
> > introduce trademarks to the public.
> >
> > So I totally approve of your "OpenJPA is Apache's implementation of
> > Sun's
> > Java Persistence API (JPA) specification for the transparent
> > persistence of
> > Java objects."
>
> This confuses me. The use of OpenJPA here seems like a noun.
> >
> >
> > You needn't say "OpenJPA software" since you said "OpenJPA
> > implementation".
>
> Not exactly. It doesn't say "OpenJPA implementation is Apache's
> implementation". It would actually sound better to me to say "OpenJPA
> software is Apache's implementation."
>
> So if it's not a noun, it would never be ok to say "OpenJPA is
> <something>". It would have to be "OpenJPA Software is <something>."
> >
> > They sort of mean the same thing, I think. I'd want you to be more
> > precise
> > if I intended to file a trademark registration with the USPTO, but
> > for a
> > common law trademark, I think that works just fine. Maybe I'd ask that
> > somewhere you say "click here to download Apache OpenJPA software."
>
> That's easy to do once we understand the rules.
>
> > But otherwise, don't change that website.
> >
> > What I objected to in my previous email was the first sentence on your
> > http://openjpa.apache.org/unit-tests.html page, "OpenJPA's unit
> > tests are
> > written using JUnit." That sentence doesn't give anyone a clue what
> > noun the
> > adjective OpenJPA modifies. Nor have I ever seen an apostrophe-s on an
> > English adjective. :-)
>
> Right, back to our noun versus adjective. The sentence doesn't make
> sense with OpenJPA as an adjective. As an adjective, it could be
> "OpenJPA unit tests", since part of the OpenJPA implementation
> consists of unit tests. But OpenJPA is not just unit tests. It's also
> a functional piece of software.
>
> But our official documentation is full of "OpenJPA as noun" and not
> "OpenJPA as adjective". So I'm really struggling with whether it's
> just the "first use" on a page that needs to use OpenJPA Software or
> not.
> >
> >
> > /Larry (with my English teacher hat on that I dug out of the very
> > back of my
> > closet)
> >
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: Craig.Russell@Sun.COM [mailto:Craig.Russell@Sun.COM]
> >> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 2:10 PM
> >> To: lrosen@rosenlaw.com
> >> Cc: 'ASF PRC Team'; dev@openjpa.apache.org
> >> Subject: Re: Apache trademarks on OpenJPA web site
> >>
> >> Hi Larry,
> >>
> >> On May 18, 2009, at 10:45 AM, Lawrence Rosen wrote:
> >>
> >>>
> >>> 3. Trademarks should be used as adjectives, not nouns. So the
> >>> following
> >>> sentence is incorrect trademark usage: "OpenJPA's unit tests are
> >>> written
> >>> using JUnit." Consider rewriting as "Unit tests for Apache OpenJPA
> >>> persistence project software are written using the JUnit testing
> >>> framework."
> >>> Always assume that customers have to be taught to associate the
> >>> trademark
> >>> with the noun in modifies. Once they've done that in their minds,
> >>> then you
> >>> have a very valuable trademark.
> >>>
> >>> /Larry
> >>>
> >>
> >> You've reminded me of the trademark rules that have given most
> >> engineers angina: that trademarks are not nouns but adjectives. This
> >> little trick is what makes normal text look like legalese once
> >> lawyers
> >> get hold of it.
> >>
> >> Where we say "OpenJPA is Apache's implementation of Sun's Java
> >> Persistence API (JPA) specification for the transparent persistence
> >> of
> >> Java objects. This document provides an overview of the JPA standard
> >> and technical details on the use of OpenJPA." we would have to say,
> >> instead, "OpenJPA software is Apache's implementation of Sun's Java
> >> Persistence API (JPA) specification for the transparent persistence
> >> of
> >> Java objects. This document provides an overview of the JPA standard
> >> and technical details on the use of OpenJPA software."
> >>
> >> Did I get this right?
> >>
> >> Thanks,
> >>
> >> Craig
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> -----Original Message-----
> >>>> From: Craig.Russell@Sun.COM [mailto:Craig.Russell@Sun.COM]
> >>>> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 8:49 AM
> >>>> To: ASF PRC Team
> >>>> Cc: dev@openjpa.apache.org
> >>>> Subject: Apache trademarks on OpenJPA web site
> >>>>
> >>>> Hi PRC,
> >>>>
> >>>> We've finished updating the OpenJPA web site master pages to
> >>>> include
> >>>> Apache trademarks in an obvious but not obtrusive way.
> >>>>
> >>>> http://openjpa.apache.org/unit-tests.html is an example.
> >>>>
> >>>> Please let us know if this is in accordance with the current
> >>>> trademark
> >>>> notice policy.
> >>>>
> >>>> Thanks,
> >>>>
> >>>> Craig
> >>>>
> >>>> Craig L Russell
> >>>> Architect, Sun Java Enterprise System http://db.apache.org/jdo
> >>>> 408 276-5638 mailto:Craig.Russell@sun.com
> >>>> P.S. A good JDO? O, Gasp!
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >> Craig L Russell
> >> Architect, Sun Java Enterprise System http://db.apache.org/jdo
> >> 408 276-5638 mailto:Craig.Russell@sun.com
> >> P.S. A good JDO? O, Gasp!
> >
> >
>
> Craig L Russell
> Architect, Sun Java Enterprise System http://db.apache.org/jdo
> 408 276-5638 mailto:Craig.Russell@sun.com
> P.S. A good JDO? O, Gasp!
Re: Apache trademarks on OpenJPA web site
Posted by Craig L Russell <Cr...@Sun.COM>.
Hi Larry,
On May 18, 2009, at 9:58 PM, Lawrence Rosen wrote:
> Craig Russell complained:
First, let me be clear. I'm not complaining. I'm trying to understand
just what we need to do in our public face to be compliant with an
Apache policy that allows Apache to promote and enforce our marks.
My questions really are just questions. They are not rhetorical or
argumentative. Please don't read any belligerence into the questions.
>
>> You've reminded me of the trademark rules that have given most
>> engineers angina: that trademarks are not nouns but adjectives. This
>> little trick is what makes normal text look like legalese once
>> lawyers
>> get hold of it.
>
> I'm aware of the pain that causes, and I don't want to turn Apache
> web pages
> into legalese.
>
> The first major use of a trademark on a web page ought to be, in
> some way, a
> combination of the trademark as an adjective modifying the
> "official" noun.
The trouble for OpenJPA is that there's no "official" noun. "Software"
is certainly an appropriate noun, as are "program", "library",
"package", and "implementation". So should we choose for each project
an official noun and be consistent with its "first use" on each web
page?
>
> That is so you can educate your readers about your trademark and your
> product. But it needn't be in sentence form, nor even contain words
> in their
> normal English usages or sequence. There are lots of creative ways to
> introduce trademarks to the public.
>
> So I totally approve of your "OpenJPA is Apache's implementation of
> Sun's
> Java Persistence API (JPA) specification for the transparent
> persistence of
> Java objects."
This confuses me. The use of OpenJPA here seems like a noun.
>
>
> You needn't say "OpenJPA software" since you said "OpenJPA
> implementation".
Not exactly. It doesn't say "OpenJPA implementation is Apache's
implementation". It would actually sound better to me to say "OpenJPA
software is Apache's implementation."
So if it's not a noun, it would never be ok to say "OpenJPA is
<something>". It would have to be "OpenJPA Software is <something>."
>
> They sort of mean the same thing, I think. I'd want you to be more
> precise
> if I intended to file a trademark registration with the USPTO, but
> for a
> common law trademark, I think that works just fine. Maybe I'd ask that
> somewhere you say "click here to download Apache OpenJPA software."
That's easy to do once we understand the rules.
> But otherwise, don't change that website.
>
> What I objected to in my previous email was the first sentence on your
> http://openjpa.apache.org/unit-tests.html page, "OpenJPA's unit
> tests are
> written using JUnit." That sentence doesn't give anyone a clue what
> noun the
> adjective OpenJPA modifies. Nor have I ever seen an apostrophe-s on an
> English adjective. :-)
Right, back to our noun versus adjective. The sentence doesn't make
sense with OpenJPA as an adjective. As an adjective, it could be
"OpenJPA unit tests", since part of the OpenJPA implementation
consists of unit tests. But OpenJPA is not just unit tests. It's also
a functional piece of software.
But our official documentation is full of "OpenJPA as noun" and not
"OpenJPA as adjective". So I'm really struggling with whether it's
just the "first use" on a page that needs to use OpenJPA Software or
not.
>
>
> /Larry (with my English teacher hat on that I dug out of the very
> back of my
> closet)
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Craig.Russell@Sun.COM [mailto:Craig.Russell@Sun.COM]
>> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 2:10 PM
>> To: lrosen@rosenlaw.com
>> Cc: 'ASF PRC Team'; dev@openjpa.apache.org
>> Subject: Re: Apache trademarks on OpenJPA web site
>>
>> Hi Larry,
>>
>> On May 18, 2009, at 10:45 AM, Lawrence Rosen wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> 3. Trademarks should be used as adjectives, not nouns. So the
>>> following
>>> sentence is incorrect trademark usage: "OpenJPA's unit tests are
>>> written
>>> using JUnit." Consider rewriting as "Unit tests for Apache OpenJPA
>>> persistence project software are written using the JUnit testing
>>> framework."
>>> Always assume that customers have to be taught to associate the
>>> trademark
>>> with the noun in modifies. Once they've done that in their minds,
>>> then you
>>> have a very valuable trademark.
>>>
>>> /Larry
>>>
>>
>> You've reminded me of the trademark rules that have given most
>> engineers angina: that trademarks are not nouns but adjectives. This
>> little trick is what makes normal text look like legalese once
>> lawyers
>> get hold of it.
>>
>> Where we say "OpenJPA is Apache's implementation of Sun's Java
>> Persistence API (JPA) specification for the transparent persistence
>> of
>> Java objects. This document provides an overview of the JPA standard
>> and technical details on the use of OpenJPA." we would have to say,
>> instead, "OpenJPA software is Apache's implementation of Sun's Java
>> Persistence API (JPA) specification for the transparent persistence
>> of
>> Java objects. This document provides an overview of the JPA standard
>> and technical details on the use of OpenJPA software."
>>
>> Did I get this right?
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Craig
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: Craig.Russell@Sun.COM [mailto:Craig.Russell@Sun.COM]
>>>> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 8:49 AM
>>>> To: ASF PRC Team
>>>> Cc: dev@openjpa.apache.org
>>>> Subject: Apache trademarks on OpenJPA web site
>>>>
>>>> Hi PRC,
>>>>
>>>> We've finished updating the OpenJPA web site master pages to
>>>> include
>>>> Apache trademarks in an obvious but not obtrusive way.
>>>>
>>>> http://openjpa.apache.org/unit-tests.html is an example.
>>>>
>>>> Please let us know if this is in accordance with the current
>>>> trademark
>>>> notice policy.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>>
>>>> Craig
>>>>
>>>> Craig L Russell
>>>> Architect, Sun Java Enterprise System http://db.apache.org/jdo
>>>> 408 276-5638 mailto:Craig.Russell@sun.com
>>>> P.S. A good JDO? O, Gasp!
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Craig L Russell
>> Architect, Sun Java Enterprise System http://db.apache.org/jdo
>> 408 276-5638 mailto:Craig.Russell@sun.com
>> P.S. A good JDO? O, Gasp!
>
>
Craig L Russell
Architect, Sun Java Enterprise System http://db.apache.org/jdo
408 276-5638 mailto:Craig.Russell@sun.com
P.S. A good JDO? O, Gasp!
Re: Apache trademarks on OpenJPA web site
Posted by Craig L Russell <Cr...@Sun.COM>.
Hi Larry,
On May 18, 2009, at 10:45 AM, Lawrence Rosen wrote:
>
> 3. Trademarks should be used as adjectives, not nouns. So the
> following
> sentence is incorrect trademark usage: "OpenJPA's unit tests are
> written
> using JUnit." Consider rewriting as "Unit tests for Apache OpenJPA
> persistence project software are written using the JUnit testing
> framework."
> Always assume that customers have to be taught to associate the
> trademark
> with the noun in modifies. Once they've done that in their minds,
> then you
> have a very valuable trademark.
>
> /Larry
>
You've reminded me of the trademark rules that have given most
engineers angina: that trademarks are not nouns but adjectives. This
little trick is what makes normal text look like legalese once lawyers
get hold of it.
Where we say "OpenJPA is Apache's implementation of Sun's Java
Persistence API (JPA) specification for the transparent persistence of
Java objects. This document provides an overview of the JPA standard
and technical details on the use of OpenJPA." we would have to say,
instead, "OpenJPA software is Apache's implementation of Sun's Java
Persistence API (JPA) specification for the transparent persistence of
Java objects. This document provides an overview of the JPA standard
and technical details on the use of OpenJPA software."
Did I get this right?
Thanks,
Craig
>
>
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Craig.Russell@Sun.COM [mailto:Craig.Russell@Sun.COM]
>> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 8:49 AM
>> To: ASF PRC Team
>> Cc: dev@openjpa.apache.org
>> Subject: Apache trademarks on OpenJPA web site
>>
>> Hi PRC,
>>
>> We've finished updating the OpenJPA web site master pages to include
>> Apache trademarks in an obvious but not obtrusive way.
>>
>> http://openjpa.apache.org/unit-tests.html is an example.
>>
>> Please let us know if this is in accordance with the current
>> trademark
>> notice policy.
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Craig
>>
>> Craig L Russell
>> Architect, Sun Java Enterprise System http://db.apache.org/jdo
>> 408 276-5638 mailto:Craig.Russell@sun.com
>> P.S. A good JDO? O, Gasp!
>
>
Craig L Russell
Architect, Sun Java Enterprise System http://db.apache.org/jdo
408 276-5638 mailto:Craig.Russell@sun.com
P.S. A good JDO? O, Gasp!