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Posted to diversity@apache.org by sebb <se...@gmail.com> on 2021/08/30 19:36:56 UTC
CLC problematic word replacements
If the analyses are to be useful, *all* the flagged words and phrases
need to be linked to potential replacements.
Very few are listed on the INI word list [1].
The following need suggested replacements:
- sanity check
- dummy value
- grandfather
- gr[ea]ybeard
- insane
- lame
- man hours
- retarded
- whitehat, blackhat
I think the fact that the INI initiative has only listed 4 words so
far indicates that this is a non-trivial problem.
Sebb.
[1] https://inclusivenaming.org/language/word-list/
Only has suggestions for master, slave, whitelist, blacklist at present.
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Re: CLC problematic word replacements
Posted by Rich Bowen <rb...@rcbowen.com>.
On 8/30/21 3:36 PM, sebb wrote:
> If the analyses are to be useful, *all* the flagged words and phrases
> need to be linked to potential replacements.
>
> Very few are listed on the INI word list [1].
I'll try to put together a page while I wait for the INI folks to decide
what to put on their list.
>
> The following need suggested replacements:
> - sanity check
Quick check; Functional test; smoke test
> - dummy value
Temporary value. Placeholder. Example value.
> - grandfather
This one is harder. There's some discussion here:
https://english.stackexchange.com/questions/336913/more-inclusive-formal-synonym-for-grandfathered-in
Possibly legacy? I'm not sure.
> - gr[ea]ybeard
This is just ageist, and so probably the entire concept should be
rethought, rather than a replacement word chosen.
> - insane
I'm not sure what to suggest here. I guess, in context, what's usually
being said is that something wasn't very well designed, or doesn't work.
I'll have to find some examples.
> - lame
Non-functional? Not sure. I'll have to find some examples here, too.
> - man hours
Work hours would probably work.
> - retarded
I have not encountered this in code/docs, so I'm not sure what would be
appropriate.
> - whitehat, blackhat
Ethical/unethical (in the context of hacking) I think are preferred
terms here.
>
> I think the fact that the INI initiative has only listed 4 words so
> far indicates that this is a non-trivial problem.
>
> Sebb.
>
> [1] https://inclusivenaming.org/language/word-list/
> Only has suggestions for master, slave, whitelist, blacklist at present.
>
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>
--
Rich Bowen - rbowen@rcbowen.com
@rbowen
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Re: CLC problematic word replacements
Posted by Rich Bowen <rb...@rcbowen.com>.
On 8/30/21 4:09 PM, sebb wrote:
>> On the other hand, if the answer is "step back a bit, think about what
>> you were trying to communicate, and don't use lame or retarded in the
>> sentence", then it's a different mindset entirely. Not easier. Just
>> different.
> I have given it some thought, and have no idea how to replace "dummy value".
> This is a common computing phrase, so would benefit from some advice.
Replacements that come to mind are: Temporary value. Placeholder.
Example value.
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Rich Bowen - rbowen@rcbowen.com
@rbowen
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Re: CLC problematic word replacements
Posted by sebb <se...@gmail.com>.
On Mon, 30 Aug 2021 at 20:46, Rich Bowen <rb...@rcbowen.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> On 8/30/21 3:36 PM, sebb wrote:
> > If the analyses are to be useful, *all* the flagged words and phrases
> > need to be linked to potential replacements.
> >
> > Very few are listed on the INI word list [1].
> >
> > The following need suggested replacements:
> > - sanity check
> > - dummy value
> > - grandfather
> > - gr[ea]ybeard
> > - insane
> > - lame
> > - man hours
> > - retarded
> > - whitehat, blackhat
> >
> > I think the fact that the INI initiative has only listed 4 words so
> > far indicates that this is a non-trivial problem.
>
>
> Yes, you are right. This is, indeed, a non-trivial problem. It is, in
> fact, a very difficult problem, since context is so important.
>
> People expect to have a "replace this with that" list - it's indeed one
> of the questions that comes up frequently in this conversation. But it's
> seldom that simple - nor should it be. Again, this is why we call it
> "conscious language", because word choices should be conscious, intentional.
That is not what I am suggesting.
However it would be helpful to have some suggestions for each word in
at least one context.
> Some of these words, such as lame, insane, dummy - are just lazy word
> choices, and *typically* should result in the sentence/paragraph being
> rewritten to say what it means. A simple "swap this word with that one"
> is seldom a useful answer.
Agreed, but there can be some general guidance.
> Others, such as "grandfather", are going to require some understanding
> of what was trying to be communicated before an appropriate word could
> be chosen.
>
> It's a hard problem, if all you're looking for is replacement word that
> works everywhere, because in each of these cases, there's no universal
> answer that will work for every project.
Of course not, but there will be similar contexts in many projects.
Does each project have to come up with their own solutions?
Or can there be some co-operation to spread the work-load?
> On the other hand, if the answer is "step back a bit, think about what
> you were trying to communicate, and don't use lame or retarded in the
> sentence", then it's a different mindset entirely. Not easier. Just
> different.
I have given it some thought, and have no idea how to replace "dummy value".
This is a common computing phrase, so would benefit from some advice.
> --
> Rich Bowen - rbowen@rcbowen.com
> @rbowen
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Re: CLC problematic word replacements
Posted by Rich Bowen <rb...@rcbowen.com>.
On 8/30/21 3:36 PM, sebb wrote:
> If the analyses are to be useful, *all* the flagged words and phrases
> need to be linked to potential replacements.
>
> Very few are listed on the INI word list [1].
>
> The following need suggested replacements:
> - sanity check
> - dummy value
> - grandfather
> - gr[ea]ybeard
> - insane
> - lame
> - man hours
> - retarded
> - whitehat, blackhat
>
> I think the fact that the INI initiative has only listed 4 words so
> far indicates that this is a non-trivial problem.
Yes, you are right. This is, indeed, a non-trivial problem. It is, in
fact, a very difficult problem, since context is so important.
People expect to have a "replace this with that" list - it's indeed one
of the questions that comes up frequently in this conversation. But it's
seldom that simple - nor should it be. Again, this is why we call it
"conscious language", because word choices should be conscious, intentional.
Some of these words, such as lame, insane, dummy - are just lazy word
choices, and *typically* should result in the sentence/paragraph being
rewritten to say what it means. A simple "swap this word with that one"
is seldom a useful answer.
Others, such as "grandfather", are going to require some understanding
of what was trying to be communicated before an appropriate word could
be chosen.
It's a hard problem, if all you're looking for is replacement word that
works everywhere, because in each of these cases, there's no universal
answer that will work for every project.
On the other hand, if the answer is "step back a bit, think about what
you were trying to communicate, and don't use lame or retarded in the
sentence", then it's a different mindset entirely. Not easier. Just
different.
--
Rich Bowen - rbowen@rcbowen.com
@rbowen
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