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Posted to docs@cocoon.apache.org by Reinhard Poetz <re...@gmx.net> on 2002/11/06 06:16:22 UTC
RE: XMLForms vs Struts
Ivelin,
I created a new main point in the left menu and called it "Cocoon compared".
Reinhard
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ivelin Ivanov [mailto:ivelin@apache.org]
> Sent: Saturday, November 02, 2002 5:23 PM
> To: cocoon-users@xml.apache.org
> Subject: Re: XMLForms vs Struts
>
>
> Please do.
> Wiki is great, but I am not sure in which section would this one
> article go.
> Please let me know where it went.
>
> Thank you,
>
> Ivelin
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Reinhard Poetz" <re...@gmx.net>
> To: <co...@xml.apache.org>
> Sent: Thursday, October 31, 2002 8:02 AM
> Subject: RE: XMLForms vs Struts
>
>
> Ivelin,
>
> As this is an often discussed question: Do you mind adding it to the
> CocoonWiki? If no I could do it for you ...
>
> Regards,
> Reinhard
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Ivelin Ivanov [mailto:ivelin@apache.org]
> > Sent: Thursday, October 31, 2002 2:52 PM
> > To: cocoon-users@xml.apache.org
> > Subject: Re: XMLForms vs Struts
> >
> >
> >
> > I hope this will not make things even more confusing for you,
> > but here is my view:
> >
> > Struts is 3 parts:
> > 1) An URL map, matching URLs to Actions.
> > Everything you can do with struts-config.xml (Struts), you can do with
> > sitemap.xmap (Cocoon).
> >
> > 2) Custom JSP tags for rendering HTML, like i18n, access to JavaBean
> > properties and others. Cocoon's set of transformers is a superset
> > of Strut's
> > visual tags.
> >
> > 3) Form handling.
> > Automated binding between HTML input fields and JavaBeans.
> > Cocoon's XMLForm does that and much more. It not only provides
> > the binding,
> > but it does it in a browser independent way. Struts is only designed to
> > handle automatically HTML input.
> >
> >
> > For fairness sake, I will tell you that over the last 2 years I
> have used
> > Struts successfully in big enterprise projects. It is a good and sound
> > technology when you are only interested to support the major
> HTML browsers
> > and you are not concerned with other interfaces to your application like
> > WML, VXML, Web Services, etc.
> >
> >
> > My recommendation is, if you are in a hurry and you don't want to invest
> > time in learning a new technology, go Struts.
> >
> > If you plan to build a lot of web applications in the future, you
> > must learn
> > Cocoon. It will add a very powerful weapon to your software
> tools arsenal.
>
> > You don't have to use it all the time, but when things start to look
> > dangerously complex, you will find it to be a life saver.
> >
> >
> >
> > Best,
> >
> > Ivelin
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "SAXESS - Hussayn Dabbous" <da...@saxess.com>
> > To: <co...@xml.apache.org>
> > Sent: Thursday, October 31, 2002 3:48 AM
> > Subject: Re: XMLForms vs Struts
> >
> >
> > Hy;
> >
> > First let me tell you: I like the idea of merging cocoon and struts,
> > because i see both technologies to be helpfull also in conjunction...
> >
> > Omar Tazi wrote:
> > > If you like the MVC aspect in Struts and like the flexibility provided
> > > by XML/XSLT, and don't like the limitations that come with JSPs, check
> > > out our Framework. It's called OXF (Open XML Framework). OXF is the
> > > result of our combined passion for Cocoon and Struts/J2EE and our
> > > involvement in huge enterprise projects. It will dramatically help you
> > > in your tasks (listed below). Good luck!
> > >
> >
> > But i am also a bit confused. I'm following the discussons in this
> > mailing list for about a week now and this is already the second
> > mentioning of a product/component (whatever) that claims to be an
> > on top of cocoon development. But when i enter the pages mentioned
> > above, it is very hard to find the backpointers to cocoon as the
> > base component...
> >
> > Despite that all this stuff sounds very interesting, but i get more
> > and more unshure how to proceed. Some questions rise in my mind:
> >
> > 1.) Why are all such nice and nifty add ons developed all outside
> > of cocoon ?
> > 2.) When i move to such an add on component, how can i enshure
> > to keep up with the releases of cocoon (taking adavantage
> > of the enhancements done there)?
> > 3.) Why can't i find pointers to these add ons from the cocoon pages ?
> >
> > There is sooo many good software around the world and cocoon
> for me is one
> > of the finest. Why does not all this effort take place at the heart but
> > is cluttered around in several loosely coupled or even uncoupled
> > add on projects ???
> >
> > And now my final question (to come back to the technical part):
> > Why is it so complicated to use struts and cocoon in parallel?
> > As far as i understand the concepts of cocoon, i can embed JSP's
> > in it's workflow, and if a jsp itself uses struts, why not???
> > Although i haven't tried yet, for me these things seem to be
> > coexisting without problems ...
> >
> > Any enlightments on these points are happily welcome...
> > best regards, Hussayn
> >
> > --
> > Dr. Hussayn Dabbous
> > SAXESS Software Design GmbH
> > Neuenhöfer Allee 125
> > 50935 Köln
> > Telefon: +49-221-56011-0
> > Fax: +49-221-56011-20
> > E-Mail: dabbous@saxess.com
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > Please check that your question has not already been answered in the
> > FAQ before posting. <http://xml.apache.org/cocoon/faq/index.html>
> >
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: <co...@xml.apache.org>
> > For additional commands, e-mail: <co...@xml.apache.org>
> >
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > Please check that your question has not already been answered in the
> > FAQ before posting. <http://xml.apache.org/cocoon/faq/index.html>
> >
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: <co...@xml.apache.org>
> > For additional commands, e-mail: <co...@xml.apache.org>
> >
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> Please check that your question has not already been answered in the
> FAQ before posting. <http://xml.apache.org/cocoon/faq/index.html>
>
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: <co...@xml.apache.org>
> For additional commands, e-mail: <co...@xml.apache.org>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> Please check that your question has not already been answered in the
> FAQ before posting. <http://xml.apache.org/cocoon/faq/index.html>
>
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: <co...@xml.apache.org>
> For additional commands, e-mail: <co...@xml.apache.org>
>
Re: XMLForms vs Struts
Posted by Steven Noels <st...@outerthought.org>.
Reinhard Poetz wrote:
> Ivelin,
>
> I created a new main point in the left menu and called it "Cocoon compared".
<wiki-polizei>
In order to keep the left Wiki menu as small as possible, I 'moved' the
comparison page (which I like) underneath 'Links'
</wiki-polizei>
Hope you don't mind...
</Steven>
--
Steven Noels http://outerthought.org/
Outerthought - Open Source, Java & XML Competence Support Center
stevenn@outerthought.org stevenn@apache.org
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Re: XMLForms vs Struts
Posted by Steven Noels <st...@outerthought.org>.
Reinhard Poetz wrote:
> Ivelin,
>
> I created a new main point in the left menu and called it "Cocoon compared".
<wiki-polizei>
In order to keep the left Wiki menu as small as possible, I 'moved' the
comparison page (which I like) underneath 'Links'
</wiki-polizei>
Hope you don't mind...
</Steven>
--
Steven Noels http://outerthought.org/
Outerthought - Open Source, Java & XML Competence Support Center
stevenn@outerthought.org stevenn@apache.org
Re: XMLForms vs Struts
Posted by Steven Noels <st...@outerthought.org>.
reinhard_poetz@gmx.net wrote:
> Steven has moved it to "Links'. Thank you - I overlooked the already
> existing point at the links page.
oops - you found out already ;-)
</Steven>
--
Steven Noels http://outerthought.org/
Outerthought - Open Source, Java & XML Competence Support Center
stevenn@outerthought.org stevenn@apache.org
---------------------------------------------------------------------
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FAQ before posting. <http://xml.apache.org/cocoon/faq/index.html>
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RE: XMLForms vs Struts
Posted by re...@gmx.net.
Steven has moved it to "Links'. Thank you - I overlooked the already
existing point at the links page.
Regards,
Reinhard
> Ivelin,
>
> I created a new main point in the left menu and called it "Cocoon
> compared".
>
> Reinhard
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Ivelin Ivanov [mailto:ivelin@apache.org]
> > Sent: Saturday, November 02, 2002 5:23 PM
> > To: cocoon-users@xml.apache.org
> > Subject: Re: XMLForms vs Struts
> >
> >
> > Please do.
> > Wiki is great, but I am not sure in which section would this one
> > article go.
> > Please let me know where it went.
> >
> > Thank you,
> >
> > Ivelin
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Reinhard Poetz" <re...@gmx.net>
> > To: <co...@xml.apache.org>
> > Sent: Thursday, October 31, 2002 8:02 AM
> > Subject: RE: XMLForms vs Struts
> >
> >
> > Ivelin,
> >
> > As this is an often discussed question: Do you mind adding it to the
> > CocoonWiki? If no I could do it for you ...
> >
> > Regards,
> > Reinhard
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Ivelin Ivanov [mailto:ivelin@apache.org]
> > > Sent: Thursday, October 31, 2002 2:52 PM
> > > To: cocoon-users@xml.apache.org
> > > Subject: Re: XMLForms vs Struts
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > I hope this will not make things even more confusing for you,
> > > but here is my view:
> > >
> > > Struts is 3 parts:
> > > 1) An URL map, matching URLs to Actions.
> > > Everything you can do with struts-config.xml (Struts), you can do with
> > > sitemap.xmap (Cocoon).
> > >
> > > 2) Custom JSP tags for rendering HTML, like i18n, access to JavaBean
> > > properties and others. Cocoon's set of transformers is a superset
> > > of Strut's
> > > visual tags.
> > >
> > > 3) Form handling.
> > > Automated binding between HTML input fields and JavaBeans.
> > > Cocoon's XMLForm does that and much more. It not only provides
> > > the binding,
> > > but it does it in a browser independent way. Struts is only designed
> to
> > > handle automatically HTML input.
> > >
> > >
> > > For fairness sake, I will tell you that over the last 2 years I
> > have used
> > > Struts successfully in big enterprise projects. It is a good and sound
> > > technology when you are only interested to support the major
> > HTML browsers
> > > and you are not concerned with other interfaces to your application
> like
> > > WML, VXML, Web Services, etc.
> > >
> > >
> > > My recommendation is, if you are in a hurry and you don't want to
> invest
> > > time in learning a new technology, go Struts.
> > >
> > > If you plan to build a lot of web applications in the future, you
> > > must learn
> > > Cocoon. It will add a very powerful weapon to your software
> > tools arsenal.
> >
> > > You don't have to use it all the time, but when things start to look
> > > dangerously complex, you will find it to be a life saver.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Best,
> > >
> > > Ivelin
> > >
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "SAXESS - Hussayn Dabbous" <da...@saxess.com>
> > > To: <co...@xml.apache.org>
> > > Sent: Thursday, October 31, 2002 3:48 AM
> > > Subject: Re: XMLForms vs Struts
> > >
> > >
> > > Hy;
> > >
> > > First let me tell you: I like the idea of merging cocoon and struts,
> > > because i see both technologies to be helpfull also in conjunction...
> > >
> > > Omar Tazi wrote:
> > > > If you like the MVC aspect in Struts and like the flexibility
> provided
> > > > by XML/XSLT, and don't like the limitations that come with JSPs,
> check
> > > > out our Framework. It's called OXF (Open XML Framework). OXF is the
> > > > result of our combined passion for Cocoon and Struts/J2EE and our
> > > > involvement in huge enterprise projects. It will dramatically help
> you
> > > > in your tasks (listed below). Good luck!
> > > >
> > >
> > > But i am also a bit confused. I'm following the discussons in this
> > > mailing list for about a week now and this is already the second
> > > mentioning of a product/component (whatever) that claims to be an
> > > on top of cocoon development. But when i enter the pages mentioned
> > > above, it is very hard to find the backpointers to cocoon as the
> > > base component...
> > >
> > > Despite that all this stuff sounds very interesting, but i get more
> > > and more unshure how to proceed. Some questions rise in my mind:
> > >
> > > 1.) Why are all such nice and nifty add ons developed all outside
> > > of cocoon ?
> > > 2.) When i move to such an add on component, how can i enshure
> > > to keep up with the releases of cocoon (taking adavantage
> > > of the enhancements done there)?
> > > 3.) Why can't i find pointers to these add ons from the cocoon pages ?
> > >
> > > There is sooo many good software around the world and cocoon
> > for me is one
> > > of the finest. Why does not all this effort take place at the heart
> but
> > > is cluttered around in several loosely coupled or even uncoupled
> > > add on projects ???
> > >
> > > And now my final question (to come back to the technical part):
> > > Why is it so complicated to use struts and cocoon in parallel?
> > > As far as i understand the concepts of cocoon, i can embed JSP's
> > > in it's workflow, and if a jsp itself uses struts, why not???
> > > Although i haven't tried yet, for me these things seem to be
> > > coexisting without problems ...
> > >
> > > Any enlightments on these points are happily welcome...
> > > best regards, Hussayn
> > >
> > > --
> > > Dr. Hussayn Dabbous
> > > SAXESS Software Design GmbH
> > > Neuenhöfer Allee 125
> > > 50935 Köln
> > > Telefon: +49-221-56011-0
> > > Fax: +49-221-56011-20
> > > E-Mail: dabbous@saxess.com
> > >
> > >
> > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > Please check that your question has not already been answered in the
> > > FAQ before posting. <http://xml.apache.org/cocoon/faq/index.html>
> > >
> > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: <co...@xml.apache.org>
> > > For additional commands, e-mail: <co...@xml.apache.org>
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > Please check that your question has not already been answered in the
> > > FAQ before posting. <http://xml.apache.org/cocoon/faq/index.html>
> > >
> > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: <co...@xml.apache.org>
> > > For additional commands, e-mail: <co...@xml.apache.org>
> > >
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > Please check that your question has not already been answered in the
> > FAQ before posting. <http://xml.apache.org/cocoon/faq/index.html>
> >
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: <co...@xml.apache.org>
> > For additional commands, e-mail: <co...@xml.apache.org>
> >
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > Please check that your question has not already been answered in the
> > FAQ before posting. <http://xml.apache.org/cocoon/faq/index.html>
> >
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: <co...@xml.apache.org>
> > For additional commands, e-mail: <co...@xml.apache.org>
> >
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> Please check that your question has not already been answered in the
> FAQ before posting. <http://xml.apache.org/cocoon/faq/index.html>
>
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: <co...@xml.apache.org>
> For additional commands, e-mail: <co...@xml.apache.org>
>
--
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---------------------------------------------------------------------
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Re: XMLForms vs Struts
Posted by Ivelin Ivanov <iv...@apache.org>.
Thanks.
The piece is way too short and incomplete,
so I hope that other people with experience with both technollogies will add
thoughts to it.
Ivelin
----- Original Message -----
From: "Reinhard Poetz" <re...@gmx.net>
To: <co...@xml.apache.org>
Cc: <co...@xml.apache.org>
Sent: Tuesday, November 05, 2002 11:16 PM
Subject: RE: XMLForms vs Struts
Ivelin,
I created a new main point in the left menu and called it "Cocoon compared".
Reinhard
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ivelin Ivanov [mailto:ivelin@apache.org]
> Sent: Saturday, November 02, 2002 5:23 PM
> To: cocoon-users@xml.apache.org
> Subject: Re: XMLForms vs Struts
>
>
> Please do.
> Wiki is great, but I am not sure in which section would this one
> article go.
> Please let me know where it went.
>
> Thank you,
>
> Ivelin
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Reinhard Poetz" <re...@gmx.net>
> To: <co...@xml.apache.org>
> Sent: Thursday, October 31, 2002 8:02 AM
> Subject: RE: XMLForms vs Struts
>
>
> Ivelin,
>
> As this is an often discussed question: Do you mind adding it to the
> CocoonWiki? If no I could do it for you ...
>
> Regards,
> Reinhard
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Ivelin Ivanov [mailto:ivelin@apache.org]
> > Sent: Thursday, October 31, 2002 2:52 PM
> > To: cocoon-users@xml.apache.org
> > Subject: Re: XMLForms vs Struts
> >
> >
> >
> > I hope this will not make things even more confusing for you,
> > but here is my view:
> >
> > Struts is 3 parts:
> > 1) An URL map, matching URLs to Actions.
> > Everything you can do with struts-config.xml (Struts), you can do with
> > sitemap.xmap (Cocoon).
> >
> > 2) Custom JSP tags for rendering HTML, like i18n, access to JavaBean
> > properties and others. Cocoon's set of transformers is a superset
> > of Strut's
> > visual tags.
> >
> > 3) Form handling.
> > Automated binding between HTML input fields and JavaBeans.
> > Cocoon's XMLForm does that and much more. It not only provides
> > the binding,
> > but it does it in a browser independent way. Struts is only designed to
> > handle automatically HTML input.
> >
> >
> > For fairness sake, I will tell you that over the last 2 years I
> have used
> > Struts successfully in big enterprise projects. It is a good and sound
> > technology when you are only interested to support the major
> HTML browsers
> > and you are not concerned with other interfaces to your application like
> > WML, VXML, Web Services, etc.
> >
> >
> > My recommendation is, if you are in a hurry and you don't want to invest
> > time in learning a new technology, go Struts.
> >
> > If you plan to build a lot of web applications in the future, you
> > must learn
> > Cocoon. It will add a very powerful weapon to your software
> tools arsenal.
>
> > You don't have to use it all the time, but when things start to look
> > dangerously complex, you will find it to be a life saver.
> >
> >
> >
> > Best,
> >
> > Ivelin
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "SAXESS - Hussayn Dabbous" <da...@saxess.com>
> > To: <co...@xml.apache.org>
> > Sent: Thursday, October 31, 2002 3:48 AM
> > Subject: Re: XMLForms vs Struts
> >
> >
> > Hy;
> >
> > First let me tell you: I like the idea of merging cocoon and struts,
> > because i see both technologies to be helpfull also in conjunction...
> >
> > Omar Tazi wrote:
> > > If you like the MVC aspect in Struts and like the flexibility provided
> > > by XML/XSLT, and don't like the limitations that come with JSPs, check
> > > out our Framework. It's called OXF (Open XML Framework). OXF is the
> > > result of our combined passion for Cocoon and Struts/J2EE and our
> > > involvement in huge enterprise projects. It will dramatically help you
> > > in your tasks (listed below). Good luck!
> > >
> >
> > But i am also a bit confused. I'm following the discussons in this
> > mailing list for about a week now and this is already the second
> > mentioning of a product/component (whatever) that claims to be an
> > on top of cocoon development. But when i enter the pages mentioned
> > above, it is very hard to find the backpointers to cocoon as the
> > base component...
> >
> > Despite that all this stuff sounds very interesting, but i get more
> > and more unshure how to proceed. Some questions rise in my mind:
> >
> > 1.) Why are all such nice and nifty add ons developed all outside
> > of cocoon ?
> > 2.) When i move to such an add on component, how can i enshure
> > to keep up with the releases of cocoon (taking adavantage
> > of the enhancements done there)?
> > 3.) Why can't i find pointers to these add ons from the cocoon pages ?
> >
> > There is sooo many good software around the world and cocoon
> for me is one
> > of the finest. Why does not all this effort take place at the heart but
> > is cluttered around in several loosely coupled or even uncoupled
> > add on projects ???
> >
> > And now my final question (to come back to the technical part):
> > Why is it so complicated to use struts and cocoon in parallel?
> > As far as i understand the concepts of cocoon, i can embed JSP's
> > in it's workflow, and if a jsp itself uses struts, why not???
> > Although i haven't tried yet, for me these things seem to be
> > coexisting without problems ...
> >
> > Any enlightments on these points are happily welcome...
> > best regards, Hussayn
> >
> > --
> > Dr. Hussayn Dabbous
> > SAXESS Software Design GmbH
> > Neuenhöfer Allee 125
> > 50935 Köln
> > Telefon: +49-221-56011-0
> > Fax: +49-221-56011-20
> > E-Mail: dabbous@saxess.com
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > Please check that your question has not already been answered in the
> > FAQ before posting. <http://xml.apache.org/cocoon/faq/index.html>
> >
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: <co...@xml.apache.org>
> > For additional commands, e-mail: <co...@xml.apache.org>
> >
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > Please check that your question has not already been answered in the
> > FAQ before posting. <http://xml.apache.org/cocoon/faq/index.html>
> >
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: <co...@xml.apache.org>
> > For additional commands, e-mail: <co...@xml.apache.org>
> >
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> Please check that your question has not already been answered in the
> FAQ before posting. <http://xml.apache.org/cocoon/faq/index.html>
>
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: <co...@xml.apache.org>
> For additional commands, e-mail: <co...@xml.apache.org>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> Please check that your question has not already been answered in the
> FAQ before posting. <http://xml.apache.org/cocoon/faq/index.html>
>
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: <co...@xml.apache.org>
> For additional commands, e-mail: <co...@xml.apache.org>
>