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Posted to community@apache.org by "Andrew C. Oliver" <ac...@apache.org> on 2002/10/26 16:33:00 UTC
Re: Open vs. Closed mailing lists (was Re: Planting a seed)
Sorry for the cross post Lets move this to community.
>
> Think about infrastructure, pr, website content management, etc etc -
> all things without a real 'project' (only in the technical sense of a
> CVS module), but still resources our community needs, hence
> contributors to those resources should be regarded as community@ members.
This is why infrastructure needs to be a formal project.
Rationale: Infrastructure is a resource shared by multiple groups...but
no one is really a committer to it. In most areas +1 means yes and I'll
contribute. -1 means no and heres why and an alternative. So far as
infrastructure goes... -1 means "No you're not doing it my way even if
I'm not going to do a dern thing". .
An infrastructure project could be inhabited by people who actually plan
on DOING something. And no more -1's from people who just want to say
no or are upset because their pet project isn't used.
For instance.. We have on of the worlds most inferior systems for
updating non-project (and some project) webpages (okay hand editing HTML
with no cvs would be worse but still).. But why does this happen?
Storing the HTML in CVS and the XML and having to go do cvs update...not
too pretty. Plus some would-be contributers don't have access to the
web server to run the update.
Why? Because lets say I offered to do the whole thing and bring it into
the new century with a great solution.. . Why didn't I use Maven....or
cocoon...or centipede...or forrest...or anakia....or JIFF. So -1 on me
right (from someone)? Well time to fix that. Secondly...who even knows
how to update the www.apache.org site... I sure don't and couldn't get
an answer on where to send the patches...
A committer based project where those who contribute vote is the best
thing I can think of... Anyone else?
-Andy
>
> I follow the reasoning that if people know their words will be
> recorded for later public consumption, they will try and act as
> respecting citizens. And mutual respect, even when in intellectual
> disagreeance, is one of the values of that infamous Apache Way (I guess).
>
> </Steven>
Re: Site updating was Re: Open vs. Closed mailing lists (was Re:
Planting a seed)
Posted by Steven Noels <st...@outerthought.org>.
Andrew C. Oliver wrote:
> Possible Solutions:
> 1. Requisition a $200-$600 intel box, stick some form of free unix
> (*BSD, Linux) and write a simple script that does this
> 2. Give me all appropriate karma and I'll add it to my existing script
> that does this for POI. It runs remotely, scp's the files over.
>
> The first costs a little money, the second is a little less secure and
> depends on my external box.
> I won't do this for every project (its a just a little HP LC2000-733)
> but I'd be happy to do it for www.
This is precisely the thing which I have been discussing together with
Nicola on infrastructure@ for quite some time and could be one of the
services we offer on cocoondev.org - also another reason why
cocoondev.org should perhaps be more integrated with ASF equipment.
</Steven>
--
Steven Noels http://outerthought.org/
Outerthought - Open Source, Java & XML Competence Support Center
stevenn@outerthought.org stevenn@apache.org
Re: Site updating was Re: Open vs. Closed mailing lists (was Re:
Planting a seed)
Posted by "Andrew C. Oliver" <ac...@apache.org>.
>
> site-dev@apache.org is the appropriate email. It even says so in the
> site CVS repository. (The only reason I'm not shifting this thread
> back to site-dev@ is that perhaps people don't know about it.)
cool! And now I know.
>
> And as we have said many times before, the only reason we store the
> generated files in CVS is that we can't run the translation (i.e.
> Java) on the production servers. And, this also allows viewing of the
> generated content before checking it in. -- justin
Possible Solutions:
1. Requisition a $200-$600 intel box, stick some form of free unix
(*BSD, Linux) and write a simple script that does this
2. Give me all appropriate karma and I'll add it to my existing script
that does this for POI. It runs remotely, scp's the files over.
The first costs a little money, the second is a little less secure and
depends on my external box.
I won't do this for every project (its a just a little HP LC2000-733)
but I'd be happy to do it for www.
-Andy
>
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> To unsubscribe, e-mail: community-unsubscribe@apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: community-help@apache.org
>
>
Site updating was Re: Open vs. Closed mailing lists (was Re:
Planting a seed)
Posted by Justin Erenkrantz <je...@apache.org>.
--On Saturday, October 26, 2002 10:33 AM -0400 "Andrew C. Oliver"
<ac...@apache.org> wrote:
> on me right (from someone)? Well time to fix that. Secondly...who
> even knows how to update the www.apache.org site... I sure don't
> and couldn't get an answer on where to send the patches...
site-dev@apache.org is the appropriate email. It even says so in the
site CVS repository. (The only reason I'm not shifting this thread
back to site-dev@ is that perhaps people don't know about it.)
And as we have said many times before, the only reason we store the
generated files in CVS is that we can't run the translation (i.e.
Java) on the production servers. And, this also allows viewing of
the generated content before checking it in. -- justin
Re: Open vs. Closed mailing lists (was Re: Planting a seed)
Posted by Stephen McConnell <mc...@apache.org>.
+1 - I like the position and the policy :-)
Andrew C. Oliver wrote:
> Sorry for the cross post Lets move this to community.
>
>>
>> Think about infrastructure, pr, website content management, etc etc -
>> all things without a real 'project' (only in the technical sense of a
>> CVS module), but still resources our community needs, hence
>> contributors to those resources should be regarded as community@
>> members.
>
>
> This is why infrastructure needs to be a formal project.
>
> Rationale: Infrastructure is a resource shared by multiple
> groups...but no one is really a committer to it. In most areas +1
> means yes and I'll contribute. -1 means no and heres why and an
> alternative. So far as infrastructure goes... -1 means "No you're
> not doing it my way even if I'm not going to do a dern thing". .
>
> An infrastructure project could be inhabited by people who actually
> plan on DOING something. And no more -1's from people who just want
> to say no or are upset because their pet project isn't used.
>
> For instance.. We have on of the worlds most inferior systems for
> updating non-project (and some project) webpages (okay hand editing
> HTML with no cvs would be worse but still).. But why does this
> happen? Storing the HTML in CVS and the XML and having to go do cvs
> update...not too pretty. Plus some would-be contributers don't have
> access to the web server to run the update.
> Why? Because lets say I offered to do the whole thing and bring it
> into the new century with a great solution.. . Why didn't I use
> Maven....or cocoon...or centipede...or forrest...or anakia....or
> JIFF. So -1 on me right (from someone)? Well time to fix that.
> Secondly...who even knows how to update the www.apache.org site... I
> sure don't and couldn't get an answer on where to send the patches...
>
> A committer based project where those who contribute vote is the best
> thing I can think of... Anyone else?
>
> -Andy
>
>>
>> I follow the reasoning that if people know their words will be
>> recorded for later public consumption, they will try and act as
>> respecting citizens. And mutual respect, even when in intellectual
>> disagreeance, is one of the values of that infamous Apache Way (I
>> guess).
>>
>> </Steven>
>
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: community-unsubscribe@apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: community-help@apache.org
>
>
>
--
Stephen J. McConnell
OSM SARL
digital products for a global economy
mailto:mcconnell@osm.net
http://www.osm.net