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Posted to users@tomcat.apache.org by André Warnier <aw...@ice-sa.com> on 2013/02/04 10:37:47 UTC
Tomcat and Sun/Oracle Java 7
Hi.
What is the status of Tomcat vs Sun/oracle Java 7 ?
I vaguely remember seeing some messages on this list about some kind of incompatibility.
But I cannot find anything readily mentioned in Tomcat 7's Release Notes or similar places.
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Re: Tomcat and Sun/Oracle Java 7
Posted by Christopher Schultz <ch...@christopherschultz.net>.
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Mark,
On 2/4/13 8:57 AM, Mark Thomas wrote:
> On 04/02/2013 13:41, Caldarale, Charles R wrote:
>>> From: Mark Thomas [mailto:markt@apache.org] Subject: Re: Tomcat
>>> and Sun/Oracle Java 7
>>
>>>> What is the status of Tomcat vs Sun/oracle Java 7 ? I
>>>> vaguely remember seeing some messages on this list about some
>>>> kind of incompatibility.
>>
>>> There are no known issues.
>>
>> Although there are no issues with running Tomcat under Java 7, I
>> was under the impression that Tomcat 7 and below could not be
>> built with Java 7 due to JRE interface incompatibilities.
>
> Correct. JDBC. Again.
No wonder those guys were so reticent to change the JDBC API to
(directly) support the upcoming Java Date & Time APIs: they've made
everyone so angry in the past they don't want to do it again ;)
- -chris
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Re: Tomcat and Sun/Oracle Java 7
Posted by Mark Thomas <ma...@apache.org>.
On 04/02/2013 14:39, André Warnier wrote:
> Mark Thomas wrote:
>> On 04/02/2013 13:41, Caldarale, Charles R wrote:
>>>> From: Mark Thomas [mailto:markt@apache.org] Subject: Re: Tomcat and
>>>> Sun/Oracle Java 7
>>>>> What is the status of Tomcat vs Sun/oracle Java 7 ? I vaguely
>>>>> remember seeing some messages on this list about some kind of
>>>>> incompatibility.
>>>> There are no known issues.
>>> Although there are no issues with running Tomcat under Java 7, I was
>>> under the impression that Tomcat 7 and below could not be built with
>>> Java 7 due to JRE interface incompatibilities.
>>
>> Correct. JDBC. Again.
>>
>
> Ok, then sorry about my persistent deep lack of knowledge of
> Java-things, but are the following assumptions correct ? (and if not,
> why ?)
>
> - tomcat 6 will run fine under a Sun/Oracle Java 1.6 JVM
> - tomcat 7 will run fine under a Sun/Oracle Java 1.6 JVM
> - tomcat 6 will run fine under a Sun/Oracle Java 1.7 JVM
> - tomcat 7 will run fine under a Sun/Oracle Java 1.7 JVM
> - tomcat 6 will run fine under an OpenJDK Java 1.7 JVM
> - tomcat 7 will run fine under an OpenJDK Java 1.7 JVM
Yes. And you can add Java 1.5 from <vendor of your choice> to that list
for Tomcat 6.
> and, there may (or may not) be problems compiling a servlet that uses
> JDBC under a Sun/Oracle Java 1.7 JDK,
If you use JDBC and compile with a 1.7 JDK, you must write your code to
the JDBC 4.1 interfaces. This is mainly an issue for JDBC driver /
connection pool implementers and is unlikely to impact web application
developers.
> but assuming that this servlet
> does not use JDBC in any way :
>
> - the classes of a servlet that has been compiled under a Sun/Oracle
> Java 1.6 JDK will run fine under Tomcat 6 and a Sun/Oracle Java 1.7 JVM
Yes.
> - the classes of a servlet that has been compiled under a Sun/Oracle
> Java 1.7 JDK will run fine under Tomcat 6 and a Sun/Oracle Java 1.6 JVM
Yes, providing that "javac -target 1.6 ..." is used and no APIs
introduced in Java 1.7 are used.
> - the classes of a servlet that has been compiled under a Sun/Oracle
> Java 1.6 JDK will run fine under Tomcat 6 and a OpenJDK Java 1.6 JVM
Yes.
> - the classes of a servlet that has been compiled under a Sun/Oracle
> Java 1.6 JDK will run fine under Tomcat 6 and a OpenJDK Java 1.7 JVM
Yes.
> or alternatively, is it so that to run a servlet compiled under some JDK
> only works under the corresponding JRE/JVM ?
> (or any other simpler rule-of-thumb rather than my exhaustive kind of
> list above)
The rule of thumb is that:
a) you must run Tomcat on a Java version greater or equal to the target
Java version the application was compiled for.
b) you must run Tomcat on at least the minimum Java version required by
that Tomcat version
For all of the above, I have assumed only the public APIs have been
used. If an app starts using JRE internals directly (e.g. classes in the
sun.* package) all bets are off.
Also, s/will/should/ since a JRE bug could break the expected compatibility.
> I apologise if these are more Java-level questions than Tomcat-level
> questions, but as a sysadmin I have to decide which JVM to install, to
> run Tomcat along with webapps which I receive pre-compiled, and other
> non-Tomcat Java applications also precompiled.
> And I have to decide this for several Linux and Windows platforms,
> whereas I am told that for some of these platforms at least, the
> pre-packaged versions of Java and/or Tomcat are not always the most
> recent ones. Hence my confusion.
It gets worse. You often find commercial applications that only run on
specific versions of the JRE and specific application server versions.
For example, it was only relatively recently that Jira was supported on
Java 7 and Tomcat 7. It wasn't just a case of being unsupported, stuff
broke if you ran it on Java 7 and/or Tomcat 7 rather than Java 6 /
Tomcat 6. That just shouldn't happen.
Personally, I'd aim for Tomcat 7 and Java 7 everywhere and require a
very good justification of why not for any exception cases.
Mark
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Re: Tomcat and Sun/Oracle Java 7
Posted by Christopher Schultz <ch...@christopherschultz.net>.
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André,
On 2/4/13 2:37 PM, André Warnier wrote:
> Thanks to all. I got more than I was bargaining for.
>
> To summarise thus, if I understand correctly what was said here,
> and asking forgiveness in advance for pretty bad English style :
>
> - any well-written java application, which does not use any
> vendor-specific JVM API (or "internals") should be able to run on
> any JVM of a level equal or superior to the one it compiles (or has
> been compiled) under. (Barring any specific bug in the JVM in
> question)
It's not so much using a vendor-specific API (like using Sun's Base64
encoder, etc.) but using methods from a version of the API that is
higher than what you are trying to run under. For instance, the
ResultSet.getRowId() method wasn't added until Java 6. You can compile
your class with Java 6 (which will work) and then if you try to run it
on Java 5, it won't work. Nothing vendor-specific... just a version
mismatch.
> - any well-written java web-application, written in conformance
> with a given Java Servlet Specification level, which does not use
> any of the above JVM "internals" nor any container-specific APIs,
> should be able to run under any java servlet container which
> supports the same Java Servlet Specification level. (Barring any
> specific bug in the servlet container in question)
>
> And if any java application or java web-application does not run as
> per the above rules, then we should ask the vendor/developer of
> this application why not.
Seems reasonable.
- -chris
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Re: Tomcat and Sun/Oracle Java 7
Posted by André Warnier <aw...@ice-sa.com>.
Thanks to all. I got more than I was bargaining for.
To summarise thus, if I understand correctly what was said here, and asking forgiveness in
advance for pretty bad English style :
- any well-written java application, which does not use any vendor-specific JVM API (or
"internals") should be able to run on any JVM of a level equal or superior to the one it
compiles (or has been compiled) under.
(Barring any specific bug in the JVM in question)
- any well-written java web-application, written in conformance with a given Java Servlet
Specification level, which does not use any of the above JVM "internals" nor any
container-specific APIs, should be able to run under any java servlet container which
supports the same Java Servlet Specification level.
(Barring any specific bug in the servlet container in question)
And if any java application or java web-application does not run as per the above rules,
then we should ask the vendor/developer of this application why not.
Is that it ?
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Re: Tomcat and Sun/Oracle Java 7
Posted by Rainer Frey <ra...@inxmail.de>.
On 04.02.2013, at 19:40, Christopher Schultz <ch...@christopherschultz.net> wrote:
> It's a "maybe". If you use "-target 1.6" and you make sure not to use
> any APIs that are Java 1.7+ (not sure if the compiler actually checks
> when you use -target 1.6)
It does not. -target only sets the class file format. There's an option to set the
compiler's boot classpath though, where you could point at another rt.jar, but I
never used that (yet).
Rainer
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Re: Tomcat and Sun/Oracle Java 7
Posted by Christopher Schultz <ch...@christopherschultz.net>.
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Chuck,
On 2/4/13 9:55 AM, Caldarale, Charles R wrote:
>> From: André Warnier [mailto:aw@ice-sa.com] - the classes of a
>> servlet that has been compiled under a Sun/Oracle Java 1.7 JDK
>> will run fine under Tomcat 6 and a Sun/Oracle Java 1.6 JVM
>
> No.
It's a "maybe". If you use "-target 1.6" and you make sure not to use
any APIs that are Java 1.7+ (not sure if the compiler actually checks
when you use -target 1.6), then the above should be possible.
Otherwise, you will have problems loading the class (lack of .class
file version support) or running the code (NoSuchMethodError, etc.).
- -chris
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RE: Tomcat and Sun/Oracle Java 7
Posted by "Caldarale, Charles R" <Ch...@unisys.com>.
> From: André Warnier [mailto:aw@ice-sa.com]
> Subject: Re: Tomcat and Sun/Oracle Java 7
> - tomcat 6 will run fine under a Sun/Oracle Java 1.6 JVM
> - tomcat 7 will run fine under a Sun/Oracle Java 1.6 JVM
> - tomcat 6 will run fine under a Sun/Oracle Java 1.7 JVM
> - tomcat 7 will run fine under a Sun/Oracle Java 1.7 JVM
> - tomcat 6 will run fine under an OpenJDK Java 1.7 JVM
> - tomcat 7 will run fine under an OpenJDK Java 1.7 JVM
The above are correct, assuming Tomcat is built with Java 6.
> there may (or may not) be problems compiling a servlet that uses
> JDBC under a Sun/Oracle Java 1.7 JDK, but assuming that this servlet
> does not use JDBC in any way :
If the servlet compiles cleanly under Java 7, it should be runnable under Java 7.
> - the classes of a servlet that has been compiled under a Sun/Oracle Java 1.6
> JDK will run fine under Tomcat 6 and a Sun/Oracle Java 1.7 JVM
Yes.
> - the classes of a servlet that has been compiled under a Sun/Oracle Java 1.7
> JDK will run fine under Tomcat 6 and a Sun/Oracle Java 1.6 JVM
No.
> - the classes of a servlet that has been compiled under a Sun/Oracle Java 1.6
> JDK will run fine under Tomcat 6 and a OpenJDK Java 1.6 JVM
Yes.
> - the classes of a servlet that has been compiled under a Sun/Oracle Java 1.6
> JDK will run fine under Tomcat 6 and a OpenJDK Java 1.7 JVM
Yes.
> alternatively, is it so that to run a servlet compiled under some JDK only
> works under the corresponding JRE/JVM ?
Classes compiled under a particular major JVM version are generally not loadable under prior versions. Compiler options exist to change that behavior.
- Chuck
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Re: Tomcat and Sun/Oracle Java 7
Posted by Jess Holle <je...@ptc.com>.
On 2/4/2013 9:32 AM, Williams, Nick wrote:
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Jess Holle [mailto:jessh@ptc.com]
>>
>> ...
>> It's that you can't make Java source code which /implements /JDBC interfaces and make it compilable with both Java 6 and Java 7. The JDBC interfaces have new methods in Java 7 *and* some of these new methods use classes new to Java 7.
>> ...
> Just a quick correction. You CAN implement the JDBC interfaces so that they compile under both Java 7 and Java 6, as long as you don't use the @Override annotation on the methods you implement that were added in JDBC 4.1 (Java 7).
I stand corrected. Perhaps it was with 1.5 and 1.6 where I tried and
failed to do this.
At any rate, I no bother trying such things. I have a version of such
code to be compiled and used with 1.5, another for 1.6 and another for 1.7.
--
Jess Holle
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RE: Tomcat and Sun/Oracle Java 7
Posted by "Williams, Nick" <ni...@ul.com>.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jess Holle [mailto:jessh@ptc.com]
>
> ...
> It's that you can't make Java source code which /implements /JDBC interfaces and make it compilable with both Java 6 and Java 7. The JDBC interfaces have new methods in Java 7 *and* some of these new methods use classes new to Java 7.
> ...
Just a quick correction. You CAN implement the JDBC interfaces so that they compile under both Java 7 and Java 6, as long as you don't use the @Override annotation on the methods you implement that were added in JDBC 4.1 (Java 7).
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Re: Tomcat and Sun/Oracle Java 7
Posted by Jess Holle <je...@ptc.com>.
It's not that Tomcat doesn't *run* fine with Java 7 even if you're
making use of JDBC.
And it's not that you can't have code that calls JDBC APIs that works
fine with Java 6 and Java 7.
It's that you can't make Java source code which /implements /JDBC
interfaces and make it compilable with both Java 6 and Java 7. The JDBC
interfaces have new methods in Java 7 *and* some of these new methods
use classes new to Java 7.
One approach to work around this is to use dynamic proxies, but this can
be obnoxious. Otherwise you're stuck with code that will compile only
with Java 6 or Java 7 -- take your pick.
This isn't a Tomcat issue -- it applies to anything which ends up
needing to implement a JDBC interface.
Standard, built-in Java classes to wrap Connection, PreparedStatement,
etc, would go a long way towards resolving this -- as one could simply
extend the wrapper class and override the necessary methods. This is a
lot easier to read than InvocationHandler code required by the dynamic
proxy approach. I'd bet that most who end up doing any substantive work
in this area end up creating their own reusable pass-through wrapper
classes for easy extension.
--
Jess Holle
On 2/4/2013 8:39 AM, André Warnier wrote:
> Mark Thomas wrote:
>> On 04/02/2013 13:41, Caldarale, Charles R wrote:
>>>> From: Mark Thomas [mailto:markt@apache.org] Subject: Re: Tomcat and
>>>> Sun/Oracle Java 7
>>>>> What is the status of Tomcat vs Sun/oracle Java 7 ? I vaguely
>>>>> remember seeing some messages on this list about some kind of
>>>>> incompatibility.
>>>> There are no known issues.
>>> Although there are no issues with running Tomcat under Java 7, I was
>>> under the impression that Tomcat 7 and below could not be built with
>>> Java 7 due to JRE interface incompatibilities.
>>
>> Correct. JDBC. Again.
>>
>
> Ok, then sorry about my persistent deep lack of knowledge of
> Java-things, but are the following assumptions correct ? (and if not,
> why ?)
>
> - tomcat 6 will run fine under a Sun/Oracle Java 1.6 JVM
> - tomcat 7 will run fine under a Sun/Oracle Java 1.6 JVM
> - tomcat 6 will run fine under a Sun/Oracle Java 1.7 JVM
> - tomcat 7 will run fine under a Sun/Oracle Java 1.7 JVM
> - tomcat 6 will run fine under an OpenJDK Java 1.7 JVM
> - tomcat 7 will run fine under an OpenJDK Java 1.7 JVM
>
> and, there may (or may not) be problems compiling a servlet that uses
> JDBC under a Sun/Oracle Java 1.7 JDK, but assuming that this servlet
> does not use JDBC in any way :
>
> - the classes of a servlet that has been compiled under a Sun/Oracle
> Java 1.6 JDK will run fine under Tomcat 6 and a Sun/Oracle Java 1.7 JVM
> - the classes of a servlet that has been compiled under a Sun/Oracle
> Java 1.7 JDK will run fine under Tomcat 6 and a Sun/Oracle Java 1.6 JVM
> - the classes of a servlet that has been compiled under a Sun/Oracle
> Java 1.6 JDK will run fine under Tomcat 6 and a OpenJDK Java 1.6 JVM
> - the classes of a servlet that has been compiled under a Sun/Oracle
> Java 1.6 JDK will run fine under Tomcat 6 and a OpenJDK Java 1.7 JVM
>
> or alternatively, is it so that to run a servlet compiled under some
> JDK only works under the corresponding JRE/JVM ?
> (or any other simpler rule-of-thumb rather than my exhaustive kind of
> list above)
>
> I apologise if these are more Java-level questions than Tomcat-level
> questions, but as a sysadmin I have to decide which JVM to install, to
> run Tomcat along with webapps which I receive pre-compiled, and other
> non-Tomcat Java applications also precompiled.
> And I have to decide this for several Linux and Windows platforms,
> whereas I am told that for some of these platforms at least, the
> pre-packaged versions of Java and/or Tomcat are not always the most
> recent ones. Hence my confusion.
>
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> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tomcat.apache.org
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>
> .
>
Re: Tomcat and Sun/Oracle Java 7
Posted by Konstantin Kolinko <kn...@gmail.com>.
2013/2/4 André Warnier <aw...@ice-sa.com>:
>
>(...)
>
> I apologise if these are more Java-level questions than Tomcat-level
> questions, but as a sysadmin I have to decide which JVM to install, to run
> Tomcat along with webapps which I receive pre-compiled, and other non-Tomcat
> Java applications also precompiled.
> And I have to decide this for several Linux and Windows platforms, whereas I
> am told that for some of these platforms at least, the pre-packaged versions
> of Java and/or Tomcat are not always the most recent ones. Hence my
> confusion.
>
For me that would depend on how mission-critical those systems are and
what are mitigation strategies in case of a failure.
First, I prefer to install a JDK instead of a JRE, because
a) it comes with trouble-shooting tools such as jstack
b) several versions of JDK can be installed in parallel, and such
installation does not require root privileges.
Second, if I run small tools, I usually use whatever JRE is installed
in the system.
If I configure Tomcat in production I prefer to select an explicit
JRE/JDK version by configuring it with $CATALINA_BASE/bin/setenv.sh.
If the web applications that you are installing in production have not
been tested on Java 7, I would stick with Java 6 for a while, but it
is already the time to start testing them with Java 7.
In theory, applications developed with Java 6 should run on Java 7 just fine.
In practice, it needs testing, and there exist
http://www.oracle.com/technetwork/java/javase/compatibility-417013.html
(which is part of original Java 7.0.0 release notes)
Best regards,
Konstantin Kolinko
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Re: Tomcat and Sun/Oracle Java 7
Posted by André Warnier <aw...@ice-sa.com>.
Mark Thomas wrote:
> On 04/02/2013 13:41, Caldarale, Charles R wrote:
>>> From: Mark Thomas [mailto:markt@apache.org] Subject: Re: Tomcat and
>>> Sun/Oracle Java 7
>>>> What is the status of Tomcat vs Sun/oracle Java 7 ? I vaguely
>>>> remember seeing some messages on this list about some kind of
>>>> incompatibility.
>>> There are no known issues.
>> Although there are no issues with running Tomcat under Java 7, I was
>> under the impression that Tomcat 7 and below could not be built with
>> Java 7 due to JRE interface incompatibilities.
>
> Correct. JDBC. Again.
>
Ok, then sorry about my persistent deep lack of knowledge of Java-things, but are the
following assumptions correct ? (and if not, why ?)
- tomcat 6 will run fine under a Sun/Oracle Java 1.6 JVM
- tomcat 7 will run fine under a Sun/Oracle Java 1.6 JVM
- tomcat 6 will run fine under a Sun/Oracle Java 1.7 JVM
- tomcat 7 will run fine under a Sun/Oracle Java 1.7 JVM
- tomcat 6 will run fine under an OpenJDK Java 1.7 JVM
- tomcat 7 will run fine under an OpenJDK Java 1.7 JVM
and, there may (or may not) be problems compiling a servlet that uses JDBC under a
Sun/Oracle Java 1.7 JDK, but assuming that this servlet does not use JDBC in any way :
- the classes of a servlet that has been compiled under a Sun/Oracle Java 1.6 JDK will run
fine under Tomcat 6 and a Sun/Oracle Java 1.7 JVM
- the classes of a servlet that has been compiled under a Sun/Oracle Java 1.7 JDK will run
fine under Tomcat 6 and a Sun/Oracle Java 1.6 JVM
- the classes of a servlet that has been compiled under a Sun/Oracle Java 1.6 JDK will run
fine under Tomcat 6 and a OpenJDK Java 1.6 JVM
- the classes of a servlet that has been compiled under a Sun/Oracle Java 1.6 JDK will run
fine under Tomcat 6 and a OpenJDK Java 1.7 JVM
or alternatively, is it so that to run a servlet compiled under some JDK only works under
the corresponding JRE/JVM ?
(or any other simpler rule-of-thumb rather than my exhaustive kind of list above)
I apologise if these are more Java-level questions than Tomcat-level questions, but as a
sysadmin I have to decide which JVM to install, to run Tomcat along with webapps which I
receive pre-compiled, and other non-Tomcat Java applications also precompiled.
And I have to decide this for several Linux and Windows platforms, whereas I am told that
for some of these platforms at least, the pre-packaged versions of Java and/or Tomcat are
not always the most recent ones. Hence my confusion.
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Re: Tomcat and Sun/Oracle Java 7
Posted by Mark Thomas <ma...@apache.org>.
On 04/02/2013 13:41, Caldarale, Charles R wrote:
>> From: Mark Thomas [mailto:markt@apache.org] Subject: Re: Tomcat and
>> Sun/Oracle Java 7
>
>>> What is the status of Tomcat vs Sun/oracle Java 7 ? I vaguely
>>> remember seeing some messages on this list about some kind of
>>> incompatibility.
>
>> There are no known issues.
>
> Although there are no issues with running Tomcat under Java 7, I was
> under the impression that Tomcat 7 and below could not be built with
> Java 7 due to JRE interface incompatibilities.
Correct. JDBC. Again.
Mark
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RE: Tomcat and Sun/Oracle Java 7
Posted by "Caldarale, Charles R" <Ch...@unisys.com>.
> From: Mark Thomas [mailto:markt@apache.org]
> Subject: Re: Tomcat and Sun/Oracle Java 7
> > What is the status of Tomcat vs Sun/oracle Java 7 ?
> > I vaguely remember seeing some messages on this list about some kind of
> > incompatibility.
> There are no known issues.
Although there are no issues with running Tomcat under Java 7, I was under the impression that Tomcat 7 and below could not be built with Java 7 due to JRE interface incompatibilities.
- Chuck
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Re: Tomcat and Sun/Oracle Java 7
Posted by Mark Thomas <ma...@apache.org>.
On 04/02/2013 09:37, André Warnier wrote:
> Hi.
> What is the status of Tomcat vs Sun/oracle Java 7 ?
> I vaguely remember seeing some messages on this list about some kind of
> incompatibility.
> But I cannot find anything readily mentioned in Tomcat 7's Release Notes
> or similar places.
There are no known issues.
There is a possible issue with JSP debugging and Java 8 but that could
be a Java 8 issue.
Mark
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