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Posted to general@jakarta.apache.org by "Daniel F. Savarese" <df...@savarese.org> on 2009/10/10 02:42:56 UTC
Re: [PROPOSAL] One development list
In message <ce...@mail.gmail.com>, Rahul
Akolkar writes:
>We currently have 8 active development lists at Jakarta, each devoted
>to a subproject. I've been subscribed to all for a while and based on
>my observations and the overall benefits of doing so, I think its time
>to consolidate them into a single development list at Jakarta.
...
>Thoughts?
No objections from me. That's been my preferred course of action
for many years now (along with opening commit access for all Jakarta
projects to all Jakarta committers, if we haven't already done so).
>lists before that. Throw in site-cvs@ as well for good measure.
>* We could repurpose general@ as the one dev list, but OTOH, seems
>worthwhile to maintain the dev / general separation.
>* No changes proposed to the user lists.
I'd rather site-cvs be rolled into a single cvs@jakarta.apache.org
containing commit traffic for all Jakarta projects. Redesignate
general@ as user@ to contain user traffic for all Jakarta projects,
retiring all the -user lists in the process. People can specify the
specific project referred to in the subject a la Commons (e.g.,
Subject: [oro] how do glob expressions work?). Then add
dev@jakarta.apache.org (also like commons).
daniel
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Re: [PROPOSAL] One development list
Posted by James Carman <ja...@carmanconsulting.com>.
On Wed, Oct 14, 2009 at 6:49 PM, Henri Yandell <ba...@apache.org> wrote:
> Slightly less tongue in cheek - maybe now is the time to move ORO,
> Regexp and ECS over to Commons.
>
> I'm happy to help out with the move if desired. If active projects
> then moving to a new site style and JIRA would come up, but given the
> lack of activity I think a gentler migration would imo be fine.
>
+1
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Re: [PROPOSAL] One development list
Posted by Thomas Vandahl <tv...@apache.org>.
On 15.10.09 00:49, Henri Yandell wrote:
> Slightly less tongue in cheek - maybe now is the time to move ORO,
> Regexp and ECS over to Commons.
I thought, Attic was the correct place, at least for ECS?
Bye, Thomas.
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Re: [PROPOSAL] One development list
Posted by Jörg Schaible <jo...@gmx.de>.
Henri Yandell wrote:
> On Wed, Oct 14, 2009 at 3:40 PM, Henri Yandell <ba...@apache.org> wrote:
>> On Tue, Oct 13, 2009 at 12:31 PM, Daniel F. Savarese <df...@savarese.org>
>> wrote:
>>>
>>
>>>
>>> Although I think we need to discuss and resolve what the future of
>>> Jakarta is to be, I agree with Rahul that it should be a separate
>>> discussion after resolving his more narrowly scoped dev@/commits@
>>> proposal. The only reason I haven't resigned from the Jakarta PMC
>>> (after attic'ing ORO, now that there's an attic) is because JMeter
>>> continues to use ORO and someone needs to be willing and able to
>>> fix any issues that may arise. At least with a combined dev list,
>>> there can be some assurance that other committers will be alerted
>>> to any problems that require fixing (not that there have been any
>>> for the better part of a decade).
>>
>> Help migrate JMeter off of ORO? :)
>
> Slightly less tongue in cheek - maybe now is the time to move ORO,
> Regexp and ECS over to Commons.
+1
> I'm happy to help out with the move if desired. If active projects
> then moving to a new site style and JIRA would come up, but given the
> lack of activity I think a gentler migration would imo be fine.
>
> Hen
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Re: [PROPOSAL] One development list
Posted by Henri Yandell <ba...@apache.org>.
On Wed, Oct 14, 2009 at 3:40 PM, Henri Yandell <ba...@apache.org> wrote:
> On Tue, Oct 13, 2009 at 12:31 PM, Daniel F. Savarese <df...@savarese.org> wrote:
>>
>
>>
>> Although I think we need to discuss and resolve what the future of
>> Jakarta is to be, I agree with Rahul that it should be a separate
>> discussion after resolving his more narrowly scoped dev@/commits@
>> proposal. The only reason I haven't resigned from the Jakarta PMC
>> (after attic'ing ORO, now that there's an attic) is because JMeter
>> continues to use ORO and someone needs to be willing and able to
>> fix any issues that may arise. At least with a combined dev list,
>> there can be some assurance that other committers will be alerted
>> to any problems that require fixing (not that there have been any
>> for the better part of a decade).
>
> Help migrate JMeter off of ORO? :)
Slightly less tongue in cheek - maybe now is the time to move ORO,
Regexp and ECS over to Commons.
I'm happy to help out with the move if desired. If active projects
then moving to a new site style and JIRA would come up, but given the
lack of activity I think a gentler migration would imo be fine.
Hen
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Re: [PROPOSAL] One development list
Posted by Henri Yandell <ba...@apache.org>.
On Tue, Oct 13, 2009 at 12:31 PM, Daniel F. Savarese <df...@savarese.org> wrote:
>
>
> Although I think we need to discuss and resolve what the future of
> Jakarta is to be, I agree with Rahul that it should be a separate
> discussion after resolving his more narrowly scoped dev@/commits@
> proposal. The only reason I haven't resigned from the Jakarta PMC
> (after attic'ing ORO, now that there's an attic) is because JMeter
> continues to use ORO and someone needs to be willing and able to
> fix any issues that may arise. At least with a combined dev list,
> there can be some assurance that other committers will be alerted
> to any problems that require fixing (not that there have been any
> for the better part of a decade).
Help migrate JMeter off of ORO? :)
Hen
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Re: [PROPOSAL] One development list
Posted by Roland Weber <os...@dubioso.net>.
Daniel F. Savarese wrote:
> general@ as user@ to contain user traffic for all Jakarta projects,
> retiring all the -user lists in the process. People can specify the
> specific project referred to in the subject a la Commons
That may work for Commons, because it is the established
procedure there. It will not work as a newly defined
procedure for a new all-Jakarta user list.
Have you noticed how much traffic there is on jmeter-user?
It will easily drown all other communication on a combined
user list. Subscribers to any other Jakarta user list will
*not* be amused about getting all that into their inboxes.
Subscribers to jmeter-user will probably not even notice
the additional traffic.
http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/jakarta-jmeter-user/
cheers,
Roland
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Re: [PROPOSAL] One development list
Posted by sebb <se...@gmail.com>.
On 11/10/2009, Rahul Akolkar <ra...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Sat, Oct 10, 2009 at 2:04 PM, Torsten Curdt <tc...@vafer.org> wrote:
> >> Care to elaborate a bit?
> >
> > I'd argue that for the people who care it's no big deal to subscribe
> > to the various lists. So tuning in is no problem, tuning out once
> > consolidated indeed is. It's an all-or-nothing. How is oversight
> > better when everyone (or at least all PMC members) are subscribed to
> > all dev list as opposed to just the one?
> >
>
> <snip/>
>
> Its not. But expecting all PMC members to be on one dev list
> constitutes a much gentler forcing function.
>
>
>
> > While the one dev list might work OK for Commons I have the feeling
> > that these projects are just too different. In Commons one could
> > imagine to step up for another component. I don't see that with the
> > rest that is left at jakarta.
> >
> > If there are many cross-posting (that would be a sign for
> > cross-concerns) I haven't noticed any.
> >
> > At least I don't see the benefits of a consolidation. I would rather
> > ask all PMC members to subscribe to all dev list than merging the
> > lists. Not to talk about the mailing list archive confusions and
> > hassle this might create.
> >
>
> <snap/>
>
> My claim is that sharing a mailing list is a solved problem. sebb
> pushing out BSF 3.0 is an example of someone stepping up for another
> component -- more exception than rule, yes.
BTW, I was already subscribed to BSF-dev because JMeter uses BSF.
Likewise I'm subvscribed to Commons-dev.
>
>
> > ....but well - that's just my opinion and the -1 should not be
> > blocking. Just saying that I don't like the idea.
> >
>
> <snip/>
>
> Sure, and I'm not trying to get you to like it, rather to understand
> your initial response a little better. Thanks for elaborating.
>
>
> -Rahul
>
>
>
>
> > cheers
> > --
> > Torsten
> >
>
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>
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Re: [PROPOSAL] One development list
Posted by Rahul Akolkar <ra...@gmail.com>.
On Sat, Oct 10, 2009 at 2:04 PM, Torsten Curdt <tc...@vafer.org> wrote:
>> Care to elaborate a bit?
>
> I'd argue that for the people who care it's no big deal to subscribe
> to the various lists. So tuning in is no problem, tuning out once
> consolidated indeed is. It's an all-or-nothing. How is oversight
> better when everyone (or at least all PMC members) are subscribed to
> all dev list as opposed to just the one?
>
<snip/>
Its not. But expecting all PMC members to be on one dev list
constitutes a much gentler forcing function.
> While the one dev list might work OK for Commons I have the feeling
> that these projects are just too different. In Commons one could
> imagine to step up for another component. I don't see that with the
> rest that is left at jakarta.
>
> If there are many cross-posting (that would be a sign for
> cross-concerns) I haven't noticed any.
>
> At least I don't see the benefits of a consolidation. I would rather
> ask all PMC members to subscribe to all dev list than merging the
> lists. Not to talk about the mailing list archive confusions and
> hassle this might create.
>
<snap/>
My claim is that sharing a mailing list is a solved problem. sebb
pushing out BSF 3.0 is an example of someone stepping up for another
component -- more exception than rule, yes.
> ....but well - that's just my opinion and the -1 should not be
> blocking. Just saying that I don't like the idea.
>
<snip/>
Sure, and I'm not trying to get you to like it, rather to understand
your initial response a little better. Thanks for elaborating.
-Rahul
> cheers
> --
> Torsten
>
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Re: [PROPOSAL] One development list
Posted by Torsten Curdt <tc...@vafer.org>.
> Care to elaborate a bit?
I'd argue that for the people who care it's no big deal to subscribe
to the various lists. So tuning in is no problem, tuning out once
consolidated indeed is. It's an all-or-nothing. How is oversight
better when everyone (or at least all PMC members) are subscribed to
all dev list as opposed to just the one?
While the one dev list might work OK for Commons I have the feeling
that these projects are just too different. In Commons one could
imagine to step up for another component. I don't see that with the
rest that is left at jakarta.
If there are many cross-posting (that would be a sign for
cross-concerns) I haven't noticed any.
At least I don't see the benefits of a consolidation. I would rather
ask all PMC members to subscribe to all dev list than merging the
lists. Not to talk about the mailing list archive confusions and
hassle this might create.
....but well - that's just my opinion and the -1 should not be
blocking. Just saying that I don't like the idea.
cheers
--
Torsten
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Re: [PROPOSAL] One development list
Posted by Rahul Akolkar <ra...@gmail.com>.
On Sat, Oct 10, 2009 at 4:12 AM, Torsten Curdt <tc...@vafer.org> wrote:
>>> >>We currently have 8 active development lists at Jakarta, each devoted
>>> >>to a subproject. I've been subscribed to all for a while and based on
>>> >>my observations and the overall benefits of doing so, I think its time
>>> >>to consolidate them into a single development list at Jakarta.
>>> > ...
>>> >>Thoughts?
>
> Not at fan.
>
> -1
>
Care to elaborate a bit?
-Rahul
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Re: [PROPOSAL] One development list
Posted by Torsten Curdt <tc...@vafer.org>.
>> >>We currently have 8 active development lists at Jakarta, each devoted
>> >>to a subproject. I've been subscribed to all for a while and based on
>> >>my observations and the overall benefits of doing so, I think its time
>> >>to consolidate them into a single development list at Jakarta.
>> > ...
>> >>Thoughts?
Not at fan.
-1
cheers
--
Torsten
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Re: [PROPOSAL] One development list
Posted by sebb <se...@gmail.com>.
On 10/10/2009, Rahul Akolkar <ra...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Fri, Oct 9, 2009 at 8:42 PM, Daniel F. Savarese <df...@savarese.org> wrote:
> >
> > In message <ce...@mail.gmail.com>, Rahul
> > Akolkar writes:
> >>We currently have 8 active development lists at Jakarta, each devoted
> >>to a subproject. I've been subscribed to all for a while and based on
> >>my observations and the overall benefits of doing so, I think its time
> >>to consolidate them into a single development list at Jakarta.
> > ...
> >>Thoughts?
> >
> > No objections from me. That's been my preferred course of action
> > for many years now (along with opening commit access for all Jakarta
> > projects to all Jakarta committers, if we haven't already done so).
> >
>
> <snip/>
>
> Cool (SVN restrictions were removed in April 2006).
>
>
>
> >>lists before that. Throw in site-cvs@ as well for good measure.
> >>* We could repurpose general@ as the one dev list, but OTOH, seems
> >>worthwhile to maintain the dev / general separation.
> >>* No changes proposed to the user lists.
> >
> > I'd rather site-cvs be rolled into a single cvs@jakarta.apache.org
> > containing commit traffic for all Jakarta projects. Redesignate
> > general@ as user@ to contain user traffic for all Jakarta projects,
> > retiring all the -user lists in the process. People can specify the
> > specific project referred to in the subject a la Commons (e.g.,
> > Subject: [oro] how do glob expressions work?). Then add
> > dev@jakarta.apache.org (also like commons).
> >
>
> <snap/>
>
> All this certainly seems worth considering. The dev lists are
> low-hanging fruit IMO, so makes sense to start there (as dev@ and
> commits@ as you note). If there is overwhelming support for merging
> user lists as well now, thats fine -- if not, lets separate the
> discussions and get the easier parts done.
+0 to dev lists merging
+1 to commits merging (but not to same list as dev)
-1 to user lists merging
>
> -Rahul
>
>
>
> > daniel
> >
> >
>
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>
>
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Re: [PROPOSAL] One development list
Posted by Rahul Akolkar <ra...@gmail.com>.
On Fri, Oct 9, 2009 at 8:42 PM, Daniel F. Savarese <df...@savarese.org> wrote:
>
> In message <ce...@mail.gmail.com>, Rahul
> Akolkar writes:
>>We currently have 8 active development lists at Jakarta, each devoted
>>to a subproject. I've been subscribed to all for a while and based on
>>my observations and the overall benefits of doing so, I think its time
>>to consolidate them into a single development list at Jakarta.
> ...
>>Thoughts?
>
> No objections from me. That's been my preferred course of action
> for many years now (along with opening commit access for all Jakarta
> projects to all Jakarta committers, if we haven't already done so).
>
<snip/>
Cool (SVN restrictions were removed in April 2006).
>>lists before that. Throw in site-cvs@ as well for good measure.
>>* We could repurpose general@ as the one dev list, but OTOH, seems
>>worthwhile to maintain the dev / general separation.
>>* No changes proposed to the user lists.
>
> I'd rather site-cvs be rolled into a single cvs@jakarta.apache.org
> containing commit traffic for all Jakarta projects. Redesignate
> general@ as user@ to contain user traffic for all Jakarta projects,
> retiring all the -user lists in the process. People can specify the
> specific project referred to in the subject a la Commons (e.g.,
> Subject: [oro] how do glob expressions work?). Then add
> dev@jakarta.apache.org (also like commons).
>
<snap/>
All this certainly seems worth considering. The dev lists are
low-hanging fruit IMO, so makes sense to start there (as dev@ and
commits@ as you note). If there is overwhelming support for merging
user lists as well now, thats fine -- if not, lets separate the
discussions and get the easier parts done.
-Rahul
> daniel
>
>
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