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Posted to taglibs-dev@jakarta.apache.org by Henri Yandell <fl...@gmail.com> on 2005/01/04 04:23:01 UTC
SVN migration
Just wondering if the Taglibs community have any thoughts on a
migration to Subversion?
I'm aiming to get Jakarta migrated over to Subversion this quarter and
this email is intended to nudge the start of the Taglibs migration. The process
seems pretty easy, though I'm not finished on my first one (jakarta-regexp):
http://www.apache.org/dev/cvs2svn.html
The Jakarta status is in the wiki at:
http://wiki.apache.org/jakarta/Migrating_20to_20Subversion
Alternatively, I'm looking to hear the problems with the idea of a
migration to SVN so I can get the Infrastructure guys to deal with
them.
Thanks,
Hen
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Re: SVN migration
Posted by Rahul P Akolkar <ak...@us.ibm.com>.
Jamie Flournoy wrote:
> Also, I agree with Martin Cooper. Move first, rename later.
Sure, I thought the renaming "call for brainstorming" would be treated as
an orthogonal (sub)thread to the motion for the move. Didn't mean to
interrupt the motion itself, if that was the impression created.
-Rahul
Re: SVN migration
Posted by Jamie Flournoy <ja...@white-mountain.org>.
Since there was a call for chatter... :)
+1 on the move to Subversion as soon as possible. I use it at the day
job and I have no complaints.
Also, I agree with Martin Cooper. Move first, rename later. There's not
really a dependency there (no real reason why renaming has to happen
during the CVS->Subversion migration), plus Subversion makes renaming
directories easy (so there's not really a drawback to postponing it),
plus it's generally better to split up changes so that you can adjust to
them one by one.
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Re: SVN migration
Posted by Kris Schneider <kr...@dotech.com>.
Not a lot of chatter on this, eh? I'll just reiterate that I think it makes the
most sense to just do the least surprising thing and adopt "proper" along with
commons.
Quoting Martin Cooper <mf...@gmail.com>:
> On Wed, 5 Jan 2005 17:16:05 -0500, Rahul P Akolkar <ak...@us.ibm.com>
> wrote:
> > Martin Cooper wrote:
> >
> > > Perhaps we can brainstorm on names for a bit, and see if anyone can come
> >
> > > up with something better.
> >
> > Kris Schneider wrote:
> >
> > > Wouldn't you like to be a proper too...
> >
> > Just brainstorming:
> >
> > core reminds me of a core dump and proper makes me feel like its improper
> > for me to be in the sandbox :)
> >
> > Why not use the same nomenclature as the left-side menu on our web home?
> >
> > http://jakarta.apache.org/taglibs/
> >
> > jakarta/
> > taglibs/
> > supported/
> > ...
> > sandbox/
> > ...
> >
> > Maybe even have siblings toolext and deprecated (siblings of supported).
>
> The problem with this is that, in reality, individual taglibs can move
> back and forth between supported and unsupported, depending upon
> committer interest in them. The term 'supported' on the web site is
> really a misnomer. There are several taglibs listed in the 'supported'
> section of the web site that really aren't supported in any real way.
> And then there's JSTL, which is listed separately on the web site, but
> is probably the best supported of all.
>
> The goal here is simply to reproduce the current two CVS repo
> directories under a single 'taglibs' root in SVN. I don't want to get
> into trying to invent new categories for the various pieces of code
> that we have. (If we really want to recategorise, let's just get the
> migration done first; moving things around is easy once we're using
> SVN.)
>
> In Commons, the distinction between Proper and Sandbox is that
> components in Proper have demonstrated that a community has developed
> around them, and that they are ready, or nearly ready, for an official
> release. Components that are still in their infancy, in terms of
> either or both of community or code, live in the Sandbox.
>
> To be honest, Taglibs seems somewhat dysfunctional when it comes to
> community and to the distinction between "proper" and sandbox. But
> that's a discussion for another day. ;-) Let's just pick a name for
> the "proper" part of it, and get the migration to Subversion under our
> belt.
>
> --
> Martin Cooper
>
>
> > Have a good 2005!
> >
> > -Rahul
--
Kris Schneider <ma...@dotech.com>
D.O.Tech <http://www.dotech.com/>
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Re: SVN migration
Posted by Martin Cooper <mf...@gmail.com>.
On Wed, 5 Jan 2005 17:16:05 -0500, Rahul P Akolkar <ak...@us.ibm.com> wrote:
> Martin Cooper wrote:
>
> > Perhaps we can brainstorm on names for a bit, and see if anyone can come
>
> > up with something better.
>
> Kris Schneider wrote:
>
> > Wouldn't you like to be a proper too...
>
> Just brainstorming:
>
> core reminds me of a core dump and proper makes me feel like its improper
> for me to be in the sandbox :)
>
> Why not use the same nomenclature as the left-side menu on our web home?
>
> http://jakarta.apache.org/taglibs/
>
> jakarta/
> taglibs/
> supported/
> ...
> sandbox/
> ...
>
> Maybe even have siblings toolext and deprecated (siblings of supported).
The problem with this is that, in reality, individual taglibs can move
back and forth between supported and unsupported, depending upon
committer interest in them. The term 'supported' on the web site is
really a misnomer. There are several taglibs listed in the 'supported'
section of the web site that really aren't supported in any real way.
And then there's JSTL, which is listed separately on the web site, but
is probably the best supported of all.
The goal here is simply to reproduce the current two CVS repo
directories under a single 'taglibs' root in SVN. I don't want to get
into trying to invent new categories for the various pieces of code
that we have. (If we really want to recategorise, let's just get the
migration done first; moving things around is easy once we're using
SVN.)
In Commons, the distinction between Proper and Sandbox is that
components in Proper have demonstrated that a community has developed
around them, and that they are ready, or nearly ready, for an official
release. Components that are still in their infancy, in terms of
either or both of community or code, live in the Sandbox.
To be honest, Taglibs seems somewhat dysfunctional when it comes to
community and to the distinction between "proper" and sandbox. But
that's a discussion for another day. ;-) Let's just pick a name for
the "proper" part of it, and get the migration to Subversion under our
belt.
--
Martin Cooper
> Have a good 2005!
>
> -Rahul
>
>
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Re: SVN migration
Posted by Kris Schneider <kr...@dotech.com>.
Okay, if commons is really using "proper" then it only seems proper that we use
"proper" too. I'm all for consistency. Wouldn't you like to be a proper too...
Sorry...
Quoting Martin Cooper <ma...@apache.org>:
>
>
> On Wed, 5 Jan 2005, Kris Schneider wrote:
>
> > The structure sounds fine, but is commons really going with the label,
> "proper"?
>
> Yes, it's using "proper". That's because Commons has always had the notion
> of Commons Proper versus Commons Sandbox. Taglibs doesn't have terminology
> for the non-sandbox piece, but we need to pick a name for it now.
>
> > I prefer "core", but I guess it's nothing to lose sleep over.
>
> I suggested "proper" as a parallel to Commons, but I'm not married to it.
> In my mind, "core" has a different connotation from what we really mean.
> Perhaps we can brainstorm on names for a bit, and see if anyone can come
> up with something better.
>
> > I've only played
> > a little with SVN, but would an expanded view of the structure look like
> this:
>
> Bingo. That's it exactly.
>
> --
> Martin Cooper
>
>
> > jakarta/
> > taglibs/
> > core/
> > ...
> > standard/
> > branches/
> > tags/
> > trunk/
> > string/
> > branches/
> > tags/
> > trunk/
> > ...
> > sandbox/
> > ...
> > datagrid/
> > branches/
> > tags/
> > trunk/
> > ...
> >
> > Quoting Martin Cooper <ma...@apache.org>:
> >
> >>
> >>
> >> On Wed, 5 Jan 2005, Glenn Nielsen wrote:
> >>
> >>> I am not against migrating to subversion.
> >>>
> >>> Just be aware that the nightly script I run to generate the
> >>> nightly builds depends on CVS. I would rather see a quick migration
> >>> of the entire code base than a taglib here and a taglib there that
> >>> takes months. If it takes months I will have to be constantly
> >>> mucking around with the nightly build script.
> >>
> >> Absolutely. The idea is to migrate in two steps - first taglibs itself,
> >> and then the sandbox.
> >>
> >> One question comes to mind as I think about this. Taglibs has the same
> >> structure as Commons, insofar as there are "proper" and "sandbox" pieces.
> >> As with Commons, we'll want to put both Taglibs pieces under one root.
> >> Taglibs doesn't currently have the notion of "Proper" per se, but I think
> >> this would be a good time to introduce it. So we'd have:
> >>
> >> jakarta/
> >> taglibs/
> >> proper/
> >> sandbox/
> >>
> >> Does this make sense to folks?
> >>
> >> --
> >> Martin Cooper
> >>
> >>
> >>> Regards,
> >>>
> >>> Glenn
> >>>
> >>> On Mon, Jan 03, 2005 at 10:23:01PM -0500, Henri Yandell wrote:
> >>>> Just wondering if the Taglibs community have any thoughts on a
> >>>> migration to Subversion?
> >>>>
> >>>> I'm aiming to get Jakarta migrated over to Subversion this quarter and
> >>>> this email is intended to nudge the start of the Taglibs migration. The
> >> process
> >>>> seems pretty easy, though I'm not finished on my first one
> >> (jakarta-regexp):
> >>>>
> >>>> http://www.apache.org/dev/cvs2svn.html
> >>>>
> >>>> The Jakarta status is in the wiki at:
> >>>>
> >>>> http://wiki.apache.org/jakarta/Migrating_20to_20Subversion
> >>>>
> >>>> Alternatively, I'm looking to hear the problems with the idea of a
> >>>> migration to SVN so I can get the Infrastructure guys to deal with
> >>>> them.
> >>>>
> >>>> Thanks,
> >>>>
> >>>> Hen
> >>>>
> >>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: taglibs-dev-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
> >>>> For additional commands, e-mail: taglibs-dev-help@jakarta.apache.org
> >>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>> Glenn Nielsen glenn@more.net | /* Spelin donut madder |
> >>> MOREnet System Programming | * if iz ina coment. |
> >>> Missouri Research and Education Network | */ |
> >>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > --
> > Kris Schneider <ma...@dotech.com>
> > D.O.Tech <http://www.dotech.com/>
--
Kris Schneider <ma...@dotech.com>
D.O.Tech <http://www.dotech.com/>
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Re: SVN migration
Posted by Felipe Leme <ja...@felipeal.net>.
On Wed, 2005-01-05 at 20:16, Rahul P Akolkar wrote:
> core reminds me of a core dump and proper makes me feel like its improper
> for me to be in the sandbox :)
Not to mentioned the JSTL core taglib...
>
> Why not use the same nomenclature as the left-side menu on our web home?
>
> http://jakarta.apache.org/taglibs/
>
> jakarta/
> taglibs/
> supported/
> ...
> sandbox/
> ...
>
> Maybe even have siblings toolext and deprecated (siblings of supported).
Hmm, that makes sense.
The only problem I see with this approach is how to reuse Ant tasks,
like the common.xml (which would be used in all sub-directories). Maybe
we can also create a 'common' sub-directory that would have all such
artifacts (by speaking of artifacts, I'd like to migrate the whole
project to Maven someday - this is another advantage of porting to svn,
as it supports moving directories, which facilitates a lot project
refactoring).
-- Felipe
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Re: SVN migration
Posted by Rahul P Akolkar <ak...@us.ibm.com>.
Martin Cooper wrote:
> Perhaps we can brainstorm on names for a bit, and see if anyone can come
> up with something better.
Kris Schneider wrote:
> Wouldn't you like to be a proper too...
Just brainstorming:
core reminds me of a core dump and proper makes me feel like its improper
for me to be in the sandbox :)
Why not use the same nomenclature as the left-side menu on our web home?
http://jakarta.apache.org/taglibs/
jakarta/
taglibs/
supported/
...
sandbox/
...
Maybe even have siblings toolext and deprecated (siblings of supported).
Have a good 2005!
-Rahul
Re: SVN migration
Posted by Martin Cooper <ma...@apache.org>.
On Wed, 5 Jan 2005, Kris Schneider wrote:
> The structure sounds fine, but is commons really going with the label, "proper"?
Yes, it's using "proper". That's because Commons has always had the notion
of Commons Proper versus Commons Sandbox. Taglibs doesn't have terminology
for the non-sandbox piece, but we need to pick a name for it now.
> I prefer "core", but I guess it's nothing to lose sleep over.
I suggested "proper" as a parallel to Commons, but I'm not married to it.
In my mind, "core" has a different connotation from what we really mean.
Perhaps we can brainstorm on names for a bit, and see if anyone can come
up with something better.
> I've only played
> a little with SVN, but would an expanded view of the structure look like this:
Bingo. That's it exactly.
--
Martin Cooper
> jakarta/
> taglibs/
> core/
> ...
> standard/
> branches/
> tags/
> trunk/
> string/
> branches/
> tags/
> trunk/
> ...
> sandbox/
> ...
> datagrid/
> branches/
> tags/
> trunk/
> ...
>
> Quoting Martin Cooper <ma...@apache.org>:
>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, 5 Jan 2005, Glenn Nielsen wrote:
>>
>>> I am not against migrating to subversion.
>>>
>>> Just be aware that the nightly script I run to generate the
>>> nightly builds depends on CVS. I would rather see a quick migration
>>> of the entire code base than a taglib here and a taglib there that
>>> takes months. If it takes months I will have to be constantly
>>> mucking around with the nightly build script.
>>
>> Absolutely. The idea is to migrate in two steps - first taglibs itself,
>> and then the sandbox.
>>
>> One question comes to mind as I think about this. Taglibs has the same
>> structure as Commons, insofar as there are "proper" and "sandbox" pieces.
>> As with Commons, we'll want to put both Taglibs pieces under one root.
>> Taglibs doesn't currently have the notion of "Proper" per se, but I think
>> this would be a good time to introduce it. So we'd have:
>>
>> jakarta/
>> taglibs/
>> proper/
>> sandbox/
>>
>> Does this make sense to folks?
>>
>> --
>> Martin Cooper
>>
>>
>>> Regards,
>>>
>>> Glenn
>>>
>>> On Mon, Jan 03, 2005 at 10:23:01PM -0500, Henri Yandell wrote:
>>>> Just wondering if the Taglibs community have any thoughts on a
>>>> migration to Subversion?
>>>>
>>>> I'm aiming to get Jakarta migrated over to Subversion this quarter and
>>>> this email is intended to nudge the start of the Taglibs migration. The
>> process
>>>> seems pretty easy, though I'm not finished on my first one
>> (jakarta-regexp):
>>>>
>>>> http://www.apache.org/dev/cvs2svn.html
>>>>
>>>> The Jakarta status is in the wiki at:
>>>>
>>>> http://wiki.apache.org/jakarta/Migrating_20to_20Subversion
>>>>
>>>> Alternatively, I'm looking to hear the problems with the idea of a
>>>> migration to SVN so I can get the Infrastructure guys to deal with
>>>> them.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>>
>>>> Hen
>>>>
>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: taglibs-dev-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: taglibs-dev-help@jakarta.apache.org
>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> Glenn Nielsen glenn@more.net | /* Spelin donut madder |
>>> MOREnet System Programming | * if iz ina coment. |
>>> Missouri Research and Education Network | */ |
>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> --
> Kris Schneider <ma...@dotech.com>
> D.O.Tech <http://www.dotech.com/>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: taglibs-dev-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: taglibs-dev-help@jakarta.apache.org
>
>
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Re: SVN migration
Posted by Kris Schneider <kr...@dotech.com>.
The structure sounds fine, but is commons really going with the label, "proper"?
I prefer "core", but I guess it's nothing to lose sleep over. I've only played
a little with SVN, but would an expanded view of the structure look like this:
jakarta/
taglibs/
core/
...
standard/
branches/
tags/
trunk/
string/
branches/
tags/
trunk/
...
sandbox/
...
datagrid/
branches/
tags/
trunk/
...
Quoting Martin Cooper <ma...@apache.org>:
>
>
> On Wed, 5 Jan 2005, Glenn Nielsen wrote:
>
> > I am not against migrating to subversion.
> >
> > Just be aware that the nightly script I run to generate the
> > nightly builds depends on CVS. I would rather see a quick migration
> > of the entire code base than a taglib here and a taglib there that
> > takes months. If it takes months I will have to be constantly
> > mucking around with the nightly build script.
>
> Absolutely. The idea is to migrate in two steps - first taglibs itself,
> and then the sandbox.
>
> One question comes to mind as I think about this. Taglibs has the same
> structure as Commons, insofar as there are "proper" and "sandbox" pieces.
> As with Commons, we'll want to put both Taglibs pieces under one root.
> Taglibs doesn't currently have the notion of "Proper" per se, but I think
> this would be a good time to introduce it. So we'd have:
>
> jakarta/
> taglibs/
> proper/
> sandbox/
>
> Does this make sense to folks?
>
> --
> Martin Cooper
>
>
> > Regards,
> >
> > Glenn
> >
> > On Mon, Jan 03, 2005 at 10:23:01PM -0500, Henri Yandell wrote:
> >> Just wondering if the Taglibs community have any thoughts on a
> >> migration to Subversion?
> >>
> >> I'm aiming to get Jakarta migrated over to Subversion this quarter and
> >> this email is intended to nudge the start of the Taglibs migration. The
> process
> >> seems pretty easy, though I'm not finished on my first one
> (jakarta-regexp):
> >>
> >> http://www.apache.org/dev/cvs2svn.html
> >>
> >> The Jakarta status is in the wiki at:
> >>
> >> http://wiki.apache.org/jakarta/Migrating_20to_20Subversion
> >>
> >> Alternatively, I'm looking to hear the problems with the idea of a
> >> migration to SVN so I can get the Infrastructure guys to deal with
> >> them.
> >>
> >> Thanks,
> >>
> >> Hen
> >>
> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: taglibs-dev-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
> >> For additional commands, e-mail: taglibs-dev-help@jakarta.apache.org
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> > Glenn Nielsen glenn@more.net | /* Spelin donut madder |
> > MOREnet System Programming | * if iz ina coment. |
> > Missouri Research and Education Network | */ |
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
--
Kris Schneider <ma...@dotech.com>
D.O.Tech <http://www.dotech.com/>
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Re: SVN migration
Posted by Martin Cooper <ma...@apache.org>.
On Wed, 5 Jan 2005, Glenn Nielsen wrote:
> I am not against migrating to subversion.
>
> Just be aware that the nightly script I run to generate the
> nightly builds depends on CVS. I would rather see a quick migration
> of the entire code base than a taglib here and a taglib there that
> takes months. If it takes months I will have to be constantly
> mucking around with the nightly build script.
Absolutely. The idea is to migrate in two steps - first taglibs itself,
and then the sandbox.
One question comes to mind as I think about this. Taglibs has the same
structure as Commons, insofar as there are "proper" and "sandbox" pieces.
As with Commons, we'll want to put both Taglibs pieces under one root.
Taglibs doesn't currently have the notion of "Proper" per se, but I think
this would be a good time to introduce it. So we'd have:
jakarta/
taglibs/
proper/
sandbox/
Does this make sense to folks?
--
Martin Cooper
> Regards,
>
> Glenn
>
> On Mon, Jan 03, 2005 at 10:23:01PM -0500, Henri Yandell wrote:
>> Just wondering if the Taglibs community have any thoughts on a
>> migration to Subversion?
>>
>> I'm aiming to get Jakarta migrated over to Subversion this quarter and
>> this email is intended to nudge the start of the Taglibs migration. The process
>> seems pretty easy, though I'm not finished on my first one (jakarta-regexp):
>>
>> http://www.apache.org/dev/cvs2svn.html
>>
>> The Jakarta status is in the wiki at:
>>
>> http://wiki.apache.org/jakarta/Migrating_20to_20Subversion
>>
>> Alternatively, I'm looking to hear the problems with the idea of a
>> migration to SVN so I can get the Infrastructure guys to deal with
>> them.
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Hen
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: taglibs-dev-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: taglibs-dev-help@jakarta.apache.org
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> Glenn Nielsen glenn@more.net | /* Spelin donut madder |
> MOREnet System Programming | * if iz ina coment. |
> Missouri Research and Education Network | */ |
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: taglibs-dev-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: taglibs-dev-help@jakarta.apache.org
>
>
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Re: SVN migration
Posted by Glenn Nielsen <gl...@mail.more.net>.
I am not against migrating to subversion.
Just be aware that the nightly script I run to generate the
nightly builds depends on CVS. I would rather see a quick migration
of the entire code base than a taglib here and a taglib there that
takes months. If it takes months I will have to be constantly
mucking around with the nightly build script.
Regards,
Glenn
On Mon, Jan 03, 2005 at 10:23:01PM -0500, Henri Yandell wrote:
> Just wondering if the Taglibs community have any thoughts on a
> migration to Subversion?
>
> I'm aiming to get Jakarta migrated over to Subversion this quarter and
> this email is intended to nudge the start of the Taglibs migration. The process
> seems pretty easy, though I'm not finished on my first one (jakarta-regexp):
>
> http://www.apache.org/dev/cvs2svn.html
>
> The Jakarta status is in the wiki at:
>
> http://wiki.apache.org/jakarta/Migrating_20to_20Subversion
>
> Alternatively, I'm looking to hear the problems with the idea of a
> migration to SVN so I can get the Infrastructure guys to deal with
> them.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Hen
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: taglibs-dev-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: taglibs-dev-help@jakarta.apache.org
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Glenn Nielsen glenn@more.net | /* Spelin donut madder |
MOREnet System Programming | * if iz ina coment. |
Missouri Research and Education Network | */ |
----------------------------------------------------------------------
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Re: SVN migration
Posted by Martin Cooper <ma...@apache.org>.
On Mon, 3 Jan 2005, Henri Yandell wrote:
> Just wondering if the Taglibs community have any thoughts on a
> migration to Subversion?
I am +1 on migrating Taglibs to Subversion. I don't anticipate any issues
that Jakarta Commons hasn't dealt with already (i.e. deciding on the repo
structure), and would in fact expect Taglibs to follow the same model as
Commons.
The '1' part of my '+1' can't take effect immediately, I'm afraid, since I
have too many irons in the fire at the moment. However, if nobody else
steps up to the plate beforehand, I hope to have some time to push this
through next month.
(Actually, it wouldn't be a bad thing to wait until the Commons migration
has completed, so that we can ensure that there are no unanticipated
stumbling blocks with the approach being taken there.)
--
Martin Cooper
> I'm aiming to get Jakarta migrated over to Subversion this quarter and
> this email is intended to nudge the start of the Taglibs migration. The process
> seems pretty easy, though I'm not finished on my first one (jakarta-regexp):
>
> http://www.apache.org/dev/cvs2svn.html
>
> The Jakarta status is in the wiki at:
>
> http://wiki.apache.org/jakarta/Migrating_20to_20Subversion
>
> Alternatively, I'm looking to hear the problems with the idea of a
> migration to SVN so I can get the Infrastructure guys to deal with
> them.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Hen
>
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