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Posted to dev@flex.apache.org by Christofer Dutz <ch...@c-ware.de> on 2016/10/13 06:08:55 UTC
[Discuss] What's keeping the others from participating?
Hi guys,
I just wanted to take the opportunity to ask you what's keeping you from participating in any discussions here on the list and on contributing anything else.
Apache Flex currently has the 10th largest committer base in the ASF, but currently it feels like there is only 4-5 people still active on this project. Having this in-diversity in discussions is starting to get more and more tiresome as I almost know the responses which are going to come if I post something. I think most of the time I could start writing the reply for the expected response right away so I don't have to do it later.
Are we doing something wrong?
What's keeping all of you stay silent?
Is is:
- lack of interest?
- lack of time?
- that you think this is too much rocket-science? / It's too complicated to contribute
- a consumer attitude that you just want to know what others are doing for you?
Apache is all about community, but for me this doesn't feel much like a community anymore. Sometimes I think we could rename dev@flex.apache.org to alex@flex.apache.org as he is definitely the most active poster. Discussing stuff with the project sort of feels more and more like "If I want to change something, I'll take it to the list and discuss it with Alex first". It shouldn't be that way.
Is is just us 4-5 people and we simply have to live with it, or can we do anything to get you guys back on board?
For the last more-than-a-year I have been working exclusively on trying to lower the complexity to contribute in order to get more people on board. It seems that effort was a waste of time. Please prove me wrong.
@Alex: I would like to kindly ask you to please refrain from responding right away and let at least a hand full of others respond first. I would like to see if this eventually prevents the "someone else is taking care of it for me" effect.
Chris
AW: [Discuss] What's keeping the others from participating?
Posted by Christofer Dutz <ch...@c-ware.de>.
Hi Guys
First of all it's great to see and read that people are reading what we are writing ;-)
Lowering the effort to start contributing has consumed most of the last year for me. I think we are now in a pretty good state with FlexJS
All I have been doing for the last few weeks was setting the path to make contributing documentation easier. This has also been one of my greatest itches. That's why I started tackling that problem. Now I think we are in a state where we need to decide if we continue down that path, but stuff like this should not be decided only by the handful of people currently actively working on the project alone.
The number of things we could need is big and everyone who's currently contributing is working on "his greatest itches", because naturally he wants those things done and therefore the motivation to solve them is biggest. But as the number of people working on FlexJS is very limited, so is the speed of our progress. So if you are waiting for a feature that we are not working on, how about starting to work on it yourself. We will be happy to help you in your efforts. Just as an example. I have absolutely no idea how the compiler works internally, even if I'm working a lot on it, so you don't have to understand the whole thing in order to start contributing :-)
Please come forward and tell us how we can improve that would help you guys to start contributing again. And even communication on this list is a valuable form of contribution. Especially "I agree", "I disagree" messages would give an impression of interest, consent and community, which is definitely highly motivating from my point of view.
I personally have gotten from this thread that one of the biggest itches of you guys seem to be having is the lack of documentation and I will try to put my efforts into this, as now providing the infrastructure for this is finished or at least has reached a big milestone from my point of view.
Eventually it would be good for us to Define features we all would like to see in Jira and prioritize them in a way that we can draw the 1.0.0 line. It definitely won't be the order in which they are handled and we definitely won't have a fixed release-date, but it would make progress more visible and it could motivate people to get their hands dirty and start working on one of those issues. The more people help, the sooner we will reach the 1.0.0
What do you think? (yes even Alex ... I guess you can come out now ;-)
Chris
________________________________
Von: Vulcansoft <mi...@vulcansoft.com>
Gesendet: Donnerstag, 13. Oktober 2016 23:20:28
An: dev@flex.apache.org
Betreff: Re: [Discuss] What's keeping the others from participating?
Hi Christopher,
well, I’ve been silent on this mailing list, but I’m reading it very carefully. So here are my 2 cents as a non-contributor:
> - lack of interest?
No. I for my part cannot wait for FlexJS to become reality. Just had a job interview and they were all ears when I told them about the upcoming FlexJS so they can move over their AS3/Flex base! But they also wanted to know when FlexJS will be ready for prime time and I had no idea what to tell them. I realize this is open source and there’s no roadmap, but this also complicates the decision making process for those who would want to use FlexJS and then end up using something like TypeScript just to be on the safe side.
> - that you think this is too much rocket-science? / It's too complicated to contribute
Probably. I don’t have any experience with frameworks or compilers so I cannot help out there.
Installed the pre-release versions of FlexJS to write something and give feedback, but quickly realized that I don’t even know where to start without documentation and gave up.
Even though I’ve followed this mailing list for many months now, I cannot even tell approximately at what point it is. Like a todo list and what’s-been-done list somewhere.
Finally: you guys certainly do a terrific job and it’s very, very much appreciated! Just try to communicate with the outside world more and let them know what great a job you’re doing.
Christian
> On Oct 13, 2016, at 8:08 AM, Christofer Dutz <ch...@c-ware.de> wrote:
>
> Hi guys,
>
>
> I just wanted to take the opportunity to ask you what's keeping you from participating in any discussions here on the list and on contributing anything else.
>
>
> Apache Flex currently has the 10th largest committer base in the ASF, but currently it feels like there is only 4-5 people still active on this project. Having this in-diversity in discussions is starting to get more and more tiresome as I almost know the responses which are going to come if I post something. I think most of the time I could start writing the reply for the expected response right away so I don't have to do it later.
>
>
> Are we doing something wrong?
>
>
> What's keeping all of you stay silent?
>
>
> Is is:
>
> - lack of interest?
>
> - lack of time?
>
> - that you think this is too much rocket-science? / It's too complicated to contribute
>
> - a consumer attitude that you just want to know what others are doing for you?
>
>
> Apache is all about community, but for me this doesn't feel much like a community anymore. Sometimes I think we could rename dev@flex.apache.org to alex@flex.apache.org as he is definitely the most active poster. Discussing stuff with the project sort of feels more and more like "If I want to change something, I'll take it to the list and discuss it with Alex first". It shouldn't be that way.
>
>
> Is is just us 4-5 people and we simply have to live with it, or can we do anything to get you guys back on board?
>
>
> For the last more-than-a-year I have been working exclusively on trying to lower the complexity to contribute in order to get more people on board. It seems that effort was a waste of time. Please prove me wrong.
>
>
> @Alex: I would like to kindly ask you to please refrain from responding right away and let at least a hand full of others respond first. I would like to see if this eventually prevents the "someone else is taking care of it for me" effect.
>
>
> Chris
>
Re: [Discuss] What's keeping the others from participating?
Posted by Vulcansoft <mi...@vulcansoft.com>.
Hi Christopher,
well, I’ve been silent on this mailing list, but I’m reading it very carefully. So here are my 2 cents as a non-contributor:
> - lack of interest?
No. I for my part cannot wait for FlexJS to become reality. Just had a job interview and they were all ears when I told them about the upcoming FlexJS so they can move over their AS3/Flex base! But they also wanted to know when FlexJS will be ready for prime time and I had no idea what to tell them. I realize this is open source and there’s no roadmap, but this also complicates the decision making process for those who would want to use FlexJS and then end up using something like TypeScript just to be on the safe side.
> - that you think this is too much rocket-science? / It's too complicated to contribute
Probably. I don’t have any experience with frameworks or compilers so I cannot help out there.
Installed the pre-release versions of FlexJS to write something and give feedback, but quickly realized that I don’t even know where to start without documentation and gave up.
Even though I’ve followed this mailing list for many months now, I cannot even tell approximately at what point it is. Like a todo list and what’s-been-done list somewhere.
Finally: you guys certainly do a terrific job and it’s very, very much appreciated! Just try to communicate with the outside world more and let them know what great a job you’re doing.
Christian
> On Oct 13, 2016, at 8:08 AM, Christofer Dutz <ch...@c-ware.de> wrote:
>
> Hi guys,
>
>
> I just wanted to take the opportunity to ask you what's keeping you from participating in any discussions here on the list and on contributing anything else.
>
>
> Apache Flex currently has the 10th largest committer base in the ASF, but currently it feels like there is only 4-5 people still active on this project. Having this in-diversity in discussions is starting to get more and more tiresome as I almost know the responses which are going to come if I post something. I think most of the time I could start writing the reply for the expected response right away so I don't have to do it later.
>
>
> Are we doing something wrong?
>
>
> What's keeping all of you stay silent?
>
>
> Is is:
>
> - lack of interest?
>
> - lack of time?
>
> - that you think this is too much rocket-science? / It's too complicated to contribute
>
> - a consumer attitude that you just want to know what others are doing for you?
>
>
> Apache is all about community, but for me this doesn't feel much like a community anymore. Sometimes I think we could rename dev@flex.apache.org to alex@flex.apache.org as he is definitely the most active poster. Discussing stuff with the project sort of feels more and more like "If I want to change something, I'll take it to the list and discuss it with Alex first". It shouldn't be that way.
>
>
> Is is just us 4-5 people and we simply have to live with it, or can we do anything to get you guys back on board?
>
>
> For the last more-than-a-year I have been working exclusively on trying to lower the complexity to contribute in order to get more people on board. It seems that effort was a waste of time. Please prove me wrong.
>
>
> @Alex: I would like to kindly ask you to please refrain from responding right away and let at least a hand full of others respond first. I would like to see if this eventually prevents the "someone else is taking care of it for me" effect.
>
>
> Chris
>
Re: [Discuss] What's keeping the others from participating?
Posted by Carlos Rovira <ca...@codeoscopic.com>.
In my case, I'm not interested in SWF output and will not working with that
output in closest time. But I think is great to have that output a side and
that we dedicate time some time in the future. I'm debugging with
source-maps with Josh NextGen Extension and Chrome/Firefox.
The key point is that right now this is a race, and now that things start
to be "contributable", we need to get to a 1.0 point soon or we will lost
vs other tech that are already there and positioned (Angular2, React,...)
2016-10-15 2:12 GMT+02:00 Josh Tynjala <jo...@gmail.com>:
> Don't these languages transpile their features down to ES5, where they
> aren't supported natively either? Why can't we do the same for SWF output?
> I think Alex was trying to suggest this, rather than dismissing you, but
> maybe it wasn't clear enough.
>
> Looking ahead, I personally see the Flash runtimes becoming less and less
> important for FlexJS. For many developers, I don't see them building SWFs
> ever, even for debugging (sorry Alex, but I don't think many will bother to
> do that...). Most people will probably be deploying only the JS version to
> production, and if we allow them to output modern JS, these features can
> even be fully native.
>
> Try not to feel too held back by Flash, Jason. We can either polyfill for
> SWF or even make certain new language features JS-only.
>
> - Josh
>
> On Oct 14, 2016 4:50 PM, "Jason Taylor" <ja...@dedoose.com> wrote:
>
> > "TypeScript and Dart for JS all run on top of JS, so my understanding is
> > that any new language constructs they offer can be implemented on top of
> > Flash as well, although you might give up runtime type-checking for those
> > new language features."
> >
> > How would you implement async / await and parallel programming features
> on
> > top of flash when the flash runtime in no way supports those types of
> > constructs. Again Alex you continue to dismiss these features, while
> those
> > of us that program in these features daily will dismiss FlexJS in time if
> > the future roadmap dosen't include this. It's way way way more important
> > than you seem to believe.
> >
> > ~ JT
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Alex Harui [mailto:aharui@adobe.com]
> > Sent: Thursday, October 13, 2016 3:37 PM
> > To: dev@flex.apache.org
> > Subject: Re: [Discuss] What's keeping the others from participating?
> >
> >
> >
> > On 10/13/16, 3:20 PM, "Jason Taylor" <ja...@dedoose.com> wrote:
> >
> > >Hi Harbs, I honestly don't see how the language can move forward when
> > >the goal of FlexJS is to be able to compile to swf. As long as we are
> > >stuck with that baggage implementing async / await and other parallel
> > >processing operations won't be possible without breaking the swf
> > >compatibility and fracturing FlexJS. That's where the crux of my
> > >disagreement with the team is. I don't believe compiling to swf is
> > >important in the long term, and by binding ourselves to that we are
> > >limiting out future drastically. In a few years I don't think an
> > >application developer will be willing to switch framework platform
> > >without async / await, generics, or lamda's. I am excited about
> > >FlexJS, but honestly I hope it's ported over to a better language system
> > like
> > >typescript or dart. The world needs a great rapid application
> > >development framework with a declarative UI language, but the world
> > >dosen't need SWF's in the future.
> > >
> >
> > Compiling to SWF isn't a requirement for FlexJS. I still think it is a
> > good thing so all our current SWCs can run as SWF. Having runtime
> > type-checking is important as applications grow in complexity and are
> > developed by remote development teams.
> >
> > But even if it was a requirement, TypeScript and Dart for JS all run on
> > top of JS, so my understanding is that any new language constructs they
> > offer can be implemented on top of Flash as well, although you might give
> > up runtime type-checking for those new language features.
> >
> > And there is nothing stopping anyone from building a version of the
> > compiler that handles TS or Dart instead of AS. Its all open-source.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > -Alex
> >
> >
>
--
Carlos Rovira
Director General
M: +34 607 22 60 05
http://www.codeoscopic.com
http://www.avant2.es
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RE: [Discuss] What's keeping the others from participating?
Posted by Josh Tynjala <jo...@gmail.com>.
Don't these languages transpile their features down to ES5, where they
aren't supported natively either? Why can't we do the same for SWF output?
I think Alex was trying to suggest this, rather than dismissing you, but
maybe it wasn't clear enough.
Looking ahead, I personally see the Flash runtimes becoming less and less
important for FlexJS. For many developers, I don't see them building SWFs
ever, even for debugging (sorry Alex, but I don't think many will bother to
do that...). Most people will probably be deploying only the JS version to
production, and if we allow them to output modern JS, these features can
even be fully native.
Try not to feel too held back by Flash, Jason. We can either polyfill for
SWF or even make certain new language features JS-only.
- Josh
On Oct 14, 2016 4:50 PM, "Jason Taylor" <ja...@dedoose.com> wrote:
> "TypeScript and Dart for JS all run on top of JS, so my understanding is
> that any new language constructs they offer can be implemented on top of
> Flash as well, although you might give up runtime type-checking for those
> new language features."
>
> How would you implement async / await and parallel programming features on
> top of flash when the flash runtime in no way supports those types of
> constructs. Again Alex you continue to dismiss these features, while those
> of us that program in these features daily will dismiss FlexJS in time if
> the future roadmap dosen't include this. It's way way way more important
> than you seem to believe.
>
> ~ JT
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Alex Harui [mailto:aharui@adobe.com]
> Sent: Thursday, October 13, 2016 3:37 PM
> To: dev@flex.apache.org
> Subject: Re: [Discuss] What's keeping the others from participating?
>
>
>
> On 10/13/16, 3:20 PM, "Jason Taylor" <ja...@dedoose.com> wrote:
>
> >Hi Harbs, I honestly don't see how the language can move forward when
> >the goal of FlexJS is to be able to compile to swf. As long as we are
> >stuck with that baggage implementing async / await and other parallel
> >processing operations won't be possible without breaking the swf
> >compatibility and fracturing FlexJS. That's where the crux of my
> >disagreement with the team is. I don't believe compiling to swf is
> >important in the long term, and by binding ourselves to that we are
> >limiting out future drastically. In a few years I don't think an
> >application developer will be willing to switch framework platform
> >without async / await, generics, or lamda's. I am excited about
> >FlexJS, but honestly I hope it's ported over to a better language system
> like
> >typescript or dart. The world needs a great rapid application
> >development framework with a declarative UI language, but the world
> >dosen't need SWF's in the future.
> >
>
> Compiling to SWF isn't a requirement for FlexJS. I still think it is a
> good thing so all our current SWCs can run as SWF. Having runtime
> type-checking is important as applications grow in complexity and are
> developed by remote development teams.
>
> But even if it was a requirement, TypeScript and Dart for JS all run on
> top of JS, so my understanding is that any new language constructs they
> offer can be implemented on top of Flash as well, although you might give
> up runtime type-checking for those new language features.
>
> And there is nothing stopping anyone from building a version of the
> compiler that handles TS or Dart instead of AS. Its all open-source.
>
> Thanks,
> -Alex
>
>
RE: [Discuss] What's keeping the others from participating?
Posted by Jason Taylor <ja...@dedoose.com>.
"TypeScript and Dart for JS all run on top of JS, so my understanding is that any new language constructs they offer can be implemented on top of Flash as well, although you might give up runtime type-checking for those new language features."
How would you implement async / await and parallel programming features on top of flash when the flash runtime in no way supports those types of constructs. Again Alex you continue to dismiss these features, while those of us that program in these features daily will dismiss FlexJS in time if the future roadmap dosen't include this. It's way way way more important than you seem to believe.
~ JT
-----Original Message-----
From: Alex Harui [mailto:aharui@adobe.com]
Sent: Thursday, October 13, 2016 3:37 PM
To: dev@flex.apache.org
Subject: Re: [Discuss] What's keeping the others from participating?
On 10/13/16, 3:20 PM, "Jason Taylor" <ja...@dedoose.com> wrote:
>Hi Harbs, I honestly don't see how the language can move forward when
>the goal of FlexJS is to be able to compile to swf. As long as we are
>stuck with that baggage implementing async / await and other parallel
>processing operations won't be possible without breaking the swf
>compatibility and fracturing FlexJS. That's where the crux of my
>disagreement with the team is. I don't believe compiling to swf is
>important in the long term, and by binding ourselves to that we are
>limiting out future drastically. In a few years I don't think an
>application developer will be willing to switch framework platform
>without async / await, generics, or lamda's. I am excited about
>FlexJS, but honestly I hope it's ported over to a better language system like
>typescript or dart. The world needs a great rapid application
>development framework with a declarative UI language, but the world
>dosen't need SWF's in the future.
>
Compiling to SWF isn't a requirement for FlexJS. I still think it is a good thing so all our current SWCs can run as SWF. Having runtime type-checking is important as applications grow in complexity and are developed by remote development teams.
But even if it was a requirement, TypeScript and Dart for JS all run on top of JS, so my understanding is that any new language constructs they offer can be implemented on top of Flash as well, although you might give up runtime type-checking for those new language features.
And there is nothing stopping anyone from building a version of the compiler that handles TS or Dart instead of AS. Its all open-source.
Thanks,
-Alex
Re: [Discuss] What's keeping the others from participating?
Posted by Alex Harui <ah...@adobe.com>.
On 10/13/16, 3:20 PM, "Jason Taylor" <ja...@dedoose.com> wrote:
>Hi Harbs, I honestly don't see how the language can move forward when the
>goal of FlexJS is to be able to compile to swf. As long as we are stuck
>with that baggage implementing async / await and other parallel
>processing operations won't be possible without breaking the swf
>compatibility and fracturing FlexJS. That's where the crux of my
>disagreement with the team is. I don't believe compiling to swf is
>important in the long term, and by binding ourselves to that we are
>limiting out future drastically. In a few years I don't think an
>application developer will be willing to switch framework platform
>without async / await, generics, or lamda's. I am excited about FlexJS,
>but honestly I hope it's ported over to a better language system like
>typescript or dart. The world needs a great rapid application
>development framework with a declarative UI language, but the world
>dosen't need SWF's in the future.
>
Compiling to SWF isn't a requirement for FlexJS. I still think it is a
good thing so all our current SWCs can run as SWF. Having runtime
type-checking is important as applications grow in complexity and are
developed by remote development teams.
But even if it was a requirement, TypeScript and Dart for JS all run on
top of JS, so my understanding is that any new language constructs they
offer can be implemented on top of Flash as well, although you might give
up runtime type-checking for those new language features.
And there is nothing stopping anyone from building a version of the
compiler that handles TS or Dart instead of AS. Its all open-source.
Thanks,
-Alex
RE: [Discuss] What's keeping the others from participating?
Posted by Jason Taylor <ja...@dedoose.com>.
Hi Harbs, I honestly don't see how the language can move forward when the goal of FlexJS is to be able to compile to swf. As long as we are stuck with that baggage implementing async / await and other parallel processing operations won't be possible without breaking the swf compatibility and fracturing FlexJS. That's where the crux of my disagreement with the team is. I don't believe compiling to swf is important in the long term, and by binding ourselves to that we are limiting out future drastically. In a few years I don't think an application developer will be willing to switch framework platform without async / await, generics, or lamda's. I am excited about FlexJS, but honestly I hope it's ported over to a better language system like typescript or dart. The world needs a great rapid application development framework with a declarative UI language, but the world dosen't need SWF's in the future.
-----Original Message-----
From: Harbs [mailto:harbs.lists@gmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, October 13, 2016 12:51 PM
To: dev@flex.apache.org
Subject: Re: [Discuss] What's keeping the others from participating?
There has actually been discussion on improving the language. The suggestions so far have been very small, but steps nonetheless.
I would like to see improvements to the language and they will likely come, but I think there are bigger ticket items which need to come first. XML and E4X support for Javascript was one thing I personally felt very strongly about and we made that happen.
Async and await are probably the most significant items on your list for me personally.
Once things settle down a bit, I'd like to see more features start paralleling advancements in modern Javascript in general.
The more people we have working on things, the faster improvements will come...
Harbs
On Oct 13, 2016, at 9:49 PM, Jason Taylor <ja...@dedoose.com> wrote:
> Additionally I'm losing interest in AS3 as it's support for concurrency, generics, lambdas, expression trees, generics, conditional clauses on generics, async await, etc are terrible and feels like the language itself has no interest in moving forward
Re: [Discuss] What's keeping the others from participating?
Posted by Harbs <ha...@gmail.com>.
There has actually been discussion on improving the language. The suggestions so far have been very small, but steps nonetheless.
I would like to see improvements to the language and they will likely come, but I think there are bigger ticket items which need to come first. XML and E4X support for Javascript was one thing I personally felt very strongly about and we made that happen.
Async and await are probably the most significant items on your list for me personally.
Once things settle down a bit, I’d like to see more features start paralleling advancements in modern Javascript in general.
The more people we have working on things, the faster improvements will come…
Harbs
On Oct 13, 2016, at 9:49 PM, Jason Taylor <ja...@dedoose.com> wrote:
> Additionally I'm losing interest in AS3 as it's support for concurrency, generics, lambdas, expression trees, generics, conditional clauses on generics, async await, etc are terrible and feels like the language itself has no interest in moving forward
RE: [Discuss] What's keeping the others from participating?
Posted by Jason Taylor <ja...@dedoose.com>.
Thanks Josh, I will give it another shot when FlexJS .8 releases, as far as the intellij plugin, it's open source and I have already looked at it extensively, but since I can't figure out what exactly is going wrong I can't figure out what to fix.
~ JT
-----Original Message-----
From: Josh Tynjala [mailto:joshtynjala@gmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, October 13, 2016 12:32 PM
To: dev@flex.apache.org
Subject: Re: [Discuss] What's keeping the others from participating?
Your opinions are definitely welcome here, Jason! I'm sorry to hear that you felt otherwise before. That's not good at all, and hopefully we can fix it.
Indeed, the documentation situation is not ideal. Especially when dealing with IDEs like IntelliJ IDEA and Flash Builder where they were targeted at the older Flex SDK and don't have specific knowledge of FlexJS. There are often some hacks involved, and that's frustrating. There's also little incentive for convincing Jetbrains or Adobe to update their IDEs without some real big adoption. That's part of why I started working on an ActionScript extension for Visual Studio Code (and I'm working on MXML support for the next version of the extension too). Something created by the community has a better chance of evolving with FlexJS.
I brought up the lack of good getting started docs for the FlexJS components recently, with some specific suggestions that I think would help tremendously for new developers. Personally, I don't really have any experience with the FlexJS components myself because I'm focusing more on integrating the ActionScript language with other things in the JavaScript ecosystem. Hopefully someone who knows the framework better can do it right with a easily discoverable list of available components and snack-sized code snippets for each of them. Those sorts of examples are vital for getting started, and they're sorely missing. Of course, documentation for the components only becomes useful once you get past the project setup, but improvements are needed on all fronts.
Thankfully, Chris and Alex spent a lot of time getting the SDK to build more easily with fewer headaches. So many environment variables and things were needed before, and that made it difficult to gain contributors. You should try out the Maven build now, for the easiest experience. Even if you're not a Maven guy, the Ant build was also refactored and requires much less configuration too.
- Josh
On Thu, Oct 13, 2016 at 11:49 AM, Jason Taylor <ja...@dedoose.com> wrote:
> everytime a FlexJS release comes out, I try to follow the
> documentation to get setup in IntelliJ idea, compile some example
> projects, and fail miserably every single time. Search for anything
> on the error both in here and at large and it dosen't work. On the
> source side the build chain is pretty crazy and also have never managed to get that working.
> Additionally I'm losing interest in AS3 as it's support for
> concurrency, generics, lambdas, expression trees, generics,
> conditional clauses on generics, async await, etc are terrible and
> feels like the language itself has no interest in moving forward.
> Personally I don't agree with the decision to even base FlexJS on AS3.
> But yeah, when I can download a FlexJS release, read some
> documentation on setting it up in IntelliJ Idea, and it actually works
> I will start investing more time, but again I'm very hesitant at this
> point due to the limitations of the language itself. Dart
> + React offers a lot of the some functionality, with much better
> + language
> support imho. But every time I mention any of these points my opinion is
> completely discredited and thrown out.
>
> ~ JT
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Christofer Dutz [mailto:christofer.dutz@c-ware.de]
> Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 2016 11:09 PM
> To: dev@flex.apache.org
> Subject: [Discuss] What's keeping the others from participating?
>
> Hi guys,
>
>
> I just wanted to take the opportunity to ask you what's keeping you
> from participating in any discussions here on the list and on
> contributing anything else.
>
>
> Apache Flex currently has the 10th largest committer base in the ASF,
> but currently it feels like there is only 4-5 people still active on
> this project. Having this in-diversity in discussions is starting to
> get more and more tiresome as I almost know the responses which are
> going to come if I post something. I think most of the time I could
> start writing the reply for the expected response right away so I don't have to do it later.
>
>
> Are we doing something wrong?
>
>
> What's keeping all of you stay silent?
>
>
> Is is:
>
> - lack of interest?
>
> - lack of time?
>
> - that you think this is too much rocket-science? / It's too
> complicated to contribute
>
> - a consumer attitude that you just want to know what others are doing
> for you?
>
>
> Apache is all about community, but for me this doesn't feel much like
> a community anymore. Sometimes I think we could rename
> dev@flex.apache.org to alex@flex.apache.org as he is definitely the most active poster.
> Discussing stuff with the project sort of feels more and more like "If
> I want to change something, I'll take it to the list and discuss it
> with Alex first". It shouldn't be that way.
>
>
> Is is just us 4-5 people and we simply have to live with it, or can we
> do anything to get you guys back on board?
>
>
> For the last more-than-a-year I have been working exclusively on
> trying to lower the complexity to contribute in order to get more
> people on board. It seems that effort was a waste of time. Please prove me wrong.
>
>
> @Alex: I would like to kindly ask you to please refrain from
> responding right away and let at least a hand full of others respond
> first. I would like to see if this eventually prevents the "someone
> else is taking care of it for me" effect.
>
>
> Chris
>
>
Re: [Discuss] What's keeping the others from participating?
Posted by Josh Tynjala <jo...@gmail.com>.
Your opinions are definitely welcome here, Jason! I'm sorry to hear that
you felt otherwise before. That's not good at all, and hopefully we can fix
it.
Indeed, the documentation situation is not ideal. Especially when dealing
with IDEs like IntelliJ IDEA and Flash Builder where they were targeted at
the older Flex SDK and don't have specific knowledge of FlexJS. There are
often some hacks involved, and that's frustrating. There's also little
incentive for convincing Jetbrains or Adobe to update their IDEs without
some real big adoption. That's part of why I started working on an
ActionScript extension for Visual Studio Code (and I'm working on MXML
support for the next version of the extension too). Something created by
the community has a better chance of evolving with FlexJS.
I brought up the lack of good getting started docs for the FlexJS
components recently, with some specific suggestions that I think would help
tremendously for new developers. Personally, I don't really have any
experience with the FlexJS components myself because I'm focusing more on
integrating the ActionScript language with other things in the JavaScript
ecosystem. Hopefully someone who knows the framework better can do it right
with a easily discoverable list of available components and snack-sized
code snippets for each of them. Those sorts of examples are vital for
getting started, and they're sorely missing. Of course, documentation for
the components only becomes useful once you get past the project setup, but
improvements are needed on all fronts.
Thankfully, Chris and Alex spent a lot of time getting the SDK to build
more easily with fewer headaches. So many environment variables and things
were needed before, and that made it difficult to gain contributors. You
should try out the Maven build now, for the easiest experience. Even if
you're not a Maven guy, the Ant build was also refactored and requires much
less configuration too.
- Josh
On Thu, Oct 13, 2016 at 11:49 AM, Jason Taylor <ja...@dedoose.com> wrote:
> everytime a FlexJS release comes out, I try to follow the documentation to
> get setup in IntelliJ idea, compile some example projects, and fail
> miserably every single time. Search for anything on the error both in here
> and at large and it dosen't work. On the source side the build chain is
> pretty crazy and also have never managed to get that working.
> Additionally I'm losing interest in AS3 as it's support for concurrency,
> generics, lambdas, expression trees, generics, conditional clauses on
> generics, async await, etc are terrible and feels like the language itself
> has no interest in moving forward. Personally I don't agree with the
> decision to even base FlexJS on AS3. But yeah, when I can download a
> FlexJS release, read some documentation on setting it up in IntelliJ Idea,
> and it actually works I will start investing more time, but again I'm very
> hesitant at this point due to the limitations of the language itself. Dart
> + React offers a lot of the some functionality, with much better language
> support imho. But every time I mention any of these points my opinion is
> completely discredited and thrown out.
>
> ~ JT
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Christofer Dutz [mailto:christofer.dutz@c-ware.de]
> Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 2016 11:09 PM
> To: dev@flex.apache.org
> Subject: [Discuss] What's keeping the others from participating?
>
> Hi guys,
>
>
> I just wanted to take the opportunity to ask you what's keeping you from
> participating in any discussions here on the list and on contributing
> anything else.
>
>
> Apache Flex currently has the 10th largest committer base in the ASF, but
> currently it feels like there is only 4-5 people still active on this
> project. Having this in-diversity in discussions is starting to get more
> and more tiresome as I almost know the responses which are going to come if
> I post something. I think most of the time I could start writing the reply
> for the expected response right away so I don't have to do it later.
>
>
> Are we doing something wrong?
>
>
> What's keeping all of you stay silent?
>
>
> Is is:
>
> - lack of interest?
>
> - lack of time?
>
> - that you think this is too much rocket-science? / It's too complicated
> to contribute
>
> - a consumer attitude that you just want to know what others are doing for
> you?
>
>
> Apache is all about community, but for me this doesn't feel much like a
> community anymore. Sometimes I think we could rename dev@flex.apache.org
> to alex@flex.apache.org as he is definitely the most active poster.
> Discussing stuff with the project sort of feels more and more like "If I
> want to change something, I'll take it to the list and discuss it with Alex
> first". It shouldn't be that way.
>
>
> Is is just us 4-5 people and we simply have to live with it, or can we do
> anything to get you guys back on board?
>
>
> For the last more-than-a-year I have been working exclusively on trying to
> lower the complexity to contribute in order to get more people on board. It
> seems that effort was a waste of time. Please prove me wrong.
>
>
> @Alex: I would like to kindly ask you to please refrain from responding
> right away and let at least a hand full of others respond first. I would
> like to see if this eventually prevents the "someone else is taking care of
> it for me" effect.
>
>
> Chris
>
>
RE: [Discuss] What's keeping the others from participating?
Posted by Jason Taylor <ja...@dedoose.com>.
everytime a FlexJS release comes out, I try to follow the documentation to get setup in IntelliJ idea, compile some example projects, and fail miserably every single time. Search for anything on the error both in here and at large and it dosen't work. On the source side the build chain is pretty crazy and also have never managed to get that working. Additionally I'm losing interest in AS3 as it's support for concurrency, generics, lambdas, expression trees, generics, conditional clauses on generics, async await, etc are terrible and feels like the language itself has no interest in moving forward. Personally I don't agree with the decision to even base FlexJS on AS3. But yeah, when I can download a FlexJS release, read some documentation on setting it up in IntelliJ Idea, and it actually works I will start investing more time, but again I'm very hesitant at this point due to the limitations of the language itself. Dart + React offers a lot of the some functionality, with much better language support imho. But every time I mention any of these points my opinion is completely discredited and thrown out.
~ JT
-----Original Message-----
From: Christofer Dutz [mailto:christofer.dutz@c-ware.de]
Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 2016 11:09 PM
To: dev@flex.apache.org
Subject: [Discuss] What's keeping the others from participating?
Hi guys,
I just wanted to take the opportunity to ask you what's keeping you from participating in any discussions here on the list and on contributing anything else.
Apache Flex currently has the 10th largest committer base in the ASF, but currently it feels like there is only 4-5 people still active on this project. Having this in-diversity in discussions is starting to get more and more tiresome as I almost know the responses which are going to come if I post something. I think most of the time I could start writing the reply for the expected response right away so I don't have to do it later.
Are we doing something wrong?
What's keeping all of you stay silent?
Is is:
- lack of interest?
- lack of time?
- that you think this is too much rocket-science? / It's too complicated to contribute
- a consumer attitude that you just want to know what others are doing for you?
Apache is all about community, but for me this doesn't feel much like a community anymore. Sometimes I think we could rename dev@flex.apache.org to alex@flex.apache.org as he is definitely the most active poster. Discussing stuff with the project sort of feels more and more like "If I want to change something, I'll take it to the list and discuss it with Alex first". It shouldn't be that way.
Is is just us 4-5 people and we simply have to live with it, or can we do anything to get you guys back on board?
For the last more-than-a-year I have been working exclusively on trying to lower the complexity to contribute in order to get more people on board. It seems that effort was a waste of time. Please prove me wrong.
@Alex: I would like to kindly ask you to please refrain from responding right away and let at least a hand full of others respond first. I would like to see if this eventually prevents the "someone else is taking care of it for me" effect.
Chris
Re: [Discuss] What's keeping the others from participating?
Posted by Greg Dove <gr...@gmail.com>.
Hi Chris,
1."participating in any discussions here on the list "
"What's keeping all of you stay silent?"
From my own perspective I would describe it as 'filtering' based on time
commitments and also my baseline knowledge.
I generally follow (to varying degrees) most discussions but don't
participate in many because of the time involved (which tbh may be
sometimes related more to the perceived obligation of follow-up over the
actual time involved for a simple quick reply) or often because I don't
feel confident with the topic.
So it's definitely not lack of interest, although the topics are diverse
and my interest is certainly different between them. For example for maven
related discussions: I was completely unfamiliar with maven prior to
FlexJS, so I have now at least 'exposure' to that, and can see it working
and have a very basic understanding that is currently limited to making
sure I test what I do against maven as well as ant, but because I have not
needed to use maven for any client work, I have not gone deeper at this
point, and would feel 'out of my depth' in any discussion related to maven.
Likewise, as another example, I intended to add myself to the project
website after joining the project, but initially got put off by the
seemingly complicated process, so I was following with interest the
separate discussion between you and Alex on this, but did not participate
in it because a) I saw it heading in the direction of what sounds like
'simpler process', and b) because I was not familiar with any of the
details. My only real contribution could have been 'simpler is better,
please', which I had understood was already decided. If, however, this
level of contribution is valuable then I can make greater effort in the
future, and I certainly value your overall efforts to reduce 'complexity'.
Other than that my own (limited, recent) participation has been mostly on
the issue or feature related threads which I am familiar with. If it is
code related it has usually been discussion with Alex.
On the few occasions when I have ventured into a more general topic,
sometimes what I have said has been misinterpreted, (and/or perhaps I have
misinterpreted others before replying). Aside from taking more time and
care with what I write, I think the only other way around this is by having
some discussions more in real time (e.g. a dedicated IRC channel), which
may also flush out more participants for some discussions because it's
easier to discuss more complicated topics, and imo participation conveys a
more concrete sense of 'community', but it could also sit quiet for long
periods of time (this is not unusual in some other projects).
2. " contributing anything else"
I'm contributing code, but my contributions will likely oscillate over
time, inversely related to oscillations in my client work obligations. I
can obviously only speak for myself, but I'm guessing others are similar
here, except those who are paid to contribute.
I do feel that the 'freedom' of not having an official roadmap can make it
difficult to see a sense of progression towards an end-goal (I can see
progress happening, for sure, just not sure what is needed to get to 1.0,
for example). I understand that is how things work on apache projects, but
perhaps one of the issues with attracting contributors might be lack of a
clearly visible external understanding of 'what needs to be done'. My
recent experience was that I had the feeling that I had to learn a lot of
other things before I could figure this out and add my own interpretation
of priorities (which recently manifested in a focus on progressing
reflection support).
Not sure if any of that is helpful.... but you got me participating in this
thread! :)
On Thu, Oct 13, 2016 at 10:19 PM, Carlos Rovira <
carlos.rovira@codeoscopic.com> wrote:
> Hi Chris,
>
> my thinking on this is different. Since 0.7, things start to settle a bit
> and we reach a huge milestone. Until now, it was so difficult for people
> out there to contribute or even know what's happening inside this project.
> Thanks to some lines of work (maven, next gen, and many others,...) now we
> can start to dig without getting stuck at first step. The main problem some
> months ago was that I get lost easily and must to left...
>
> This's not happen nowadays. Right now there's little info about what's
> inside the box, since Alex, Josh, Peter, you,...are the guys that make it
> happen, and you know all about of it, but this is not true for the rest.
> Believe me that you're thinking "It seems that effort was a waste of time"
> is totally wrong. Man, thinks start to be very promising in part thanks to
> your hard work making things simpler than ever.
>
> Thinking a bit about this, It's normal, since FlexJS is not a JS
> framework...it's a complex technology to make things simpler than ever,
> and take the state of art to this point, is hard time consuming, and very
> hard to reach.
>
> As documentation evolves and examples start to arise, I think more people
> will join us, and we are not to far from that (I think), but first we need
> to show examples (both running and code) on how we could get beautiful apps
> written in MXML/AS3 running in the browser. For this reason, I'd want to
> make a blog flexjs examples, but for me to make this, first I need to get
> more knowledge about things that I'm just discovering, since there's no
> docs or examples out there, but you guys know since you made it, and is
> somehow natural for you.
>
> In my case, all things happening in this project are slowly going to the
> place it should be. Still is a long-distance race, but it seems like the
> hardest part is gone.
>
> Maybe we would need to be more clear about what people could expect about a
> 1.0 release...what things we pursue for 0.8, 0.9 and 1.0, main plot.
>
> so:
>
> - lack of interest? Nope. just the inverse! :)
>
> - lack of time? yes...I'm running a company, and is not easy experiment
> with new tech in this circumstance.
>
> - that you think this is too much rocket-science? / It's too complicated to
> contribute
>
> Right, is not possible for all people contribute, since we are talking
> about compilers, languages, build tools, IDEs,...
>
> - a consumer attitude that you just want to know what others are doing for
> you?
>
> I suppose that, as in many other projects, the user base should be maybe
> 90-10, and from that point expect people getting experienced with the tech,
> comes the way down and end contributing, but with the time...
>
> Chris, taking into account this project and its complexity, I think all is
> going really well, and maybe we all want things happing much faster, but
> maybe is not possible due to its own nature.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> 2016-10-13 9:45 GMT+02:00 piotrz <pi...@gmail.com>:
>
> > Hi Chris,
> >
> > I've been silence cause lack of time. I've completely move to .NET WPF.
> > I'm still reading and will be reading every posts, especially those
> related
> > to FlexJS.
> >
> > I event try to from time to time encourage guys from JS team in my
> company
> > to try FlexJS.
> > Couple of weeks ago we had internal event in company - Hackaton - where
> one
> > of my colleagues wanted to try FlexJS, but cause of lack of documentation
> > about how actually do something more complex he dropped it.
> (Unfortunately
> > I
> > couldn't participate to these event, cause I would help him).
> >
> > I'm constantly trying at some point spread the world about all these
> things
> > which you are guys doing and really really wish I could help more, but I
> > have only 24 hours. :(
> >
> > Piotr
> >
> >
> >
> > -----
> > Apache Flex PMC
> > piotrzarzycki21@gmail.com
> > --
> > View this message in context: http://apache-flex-development
> > .2333347.n4.nabble.com/Discuss-What-s-keeping-the-
> > others-from-participating-tp55730p55733.html
> > Sent from the Apache Flex Development mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
> >
>
>
>
> --
>
> Carlos Rovira
> Director General
> M: +34 607 22 60 05
> http://www.codeoscopic.com
> http://www.avant2.es
>
>
> Este mensaje se dirige exclusivamente a su destinatario y puede contener
> información privilegiada o confidencial. Si ha recibido este mensaje por
> error, le rogamos que nos lo comunique inmediatamente por esta misma vía y
> proceda a su destrucción.
>
> De la vigente Ley Orgánica de Protección de Datos (15/1999), le comunicamos
> que sus datos forman parte de un fichero cuyo responsable es CODEOSCOPIC
> S.A. La finalidad de dicho tratamiento es facilitar la prestación del
> servicio o información solicitados, teniendo usted derecho de acceso,
> rectificación, cancelación y oposición de sus datos dirigiéndose a nuestras
> oficinas c/ Paseo de la Habana 9-11, 28036, Madrid con la documentación
> necesaria.
>
Re: [Discuss] What's keeping the others from participating?
Posted by Carlos Rovira <ca...@codeoscopic.com>.
Hi Chris,
my thinking on this is different. Since 0.7, things start to settle a bit
and we reach a huge milestone. Until now, it was so difficult for people
out there to contribute or even know what's happening inside this project.
Thanks to some lines of work (maven, next gen, and many others,...) now we
can start to dig without getting stuck at first step. The main problem some
months ago was that I get lost easily and must to left...
This's not happen nowadays. Right now there's little info about what's
inside the box, since Alex, Josh, Peter, you,...are the guys that make it
happen, and you know all about of it, but this is not true for the rest.
Believe me that you're thinking "It seems that effort was a waste of time"
is totally wrong. Man, thinks start to be very promising in part thanks to
your hard work making things simpler than ever.
Thinking a bit about this, It's normal, since FlexJS is not a JS
framework...it's a complex technology to make things simpler than ever,
and take the state of art to this point, is hard time consuming, and very
hard to reach.
As documentation evolves and examples start to arise, I think more people
will join us, and we are not to far from that (I think), but first we need
to show examples (both running and code) on how we could get beautiful apps
written in MXML/AS3 running in the browser. For this reason, I'd want to
make a blog flexjs examples, but for me to make this, first I need to get
more knowledge about things that I'm just discovering, since there's no
docs or examples out there, but you guys know since you made it, and is
somehow natural for you.
In my case, all things happening in this project are slowly going to the
place it should be. Still is a long-distance race, but it seems like the
hardest part is gone.
Maybe we would need to be more clear about what people could expect about a
1.0 release...what things we pursue for 0.8, 0.9 and 1.0, main plot.
so:
- lack of interest? Nope. just the inverse! :)
- lack of time? yes...I'm running a company, and is not easy experiment
with new tech in this circumstance.
- that you think this is too much rocket-science? / It's too complicated to
contribute
Right, is not possible for all people contribute, since we are talking
about compilers, languages, build tools, IDEs,...
- a consumer attitude that you just want to know what others are doing for
you?
I suppose that, as in many other projects, the user base should be maybe
90-10, and from that point expect people getting experienced with the tech,
comes the way down and end contributing, but with the time...
Chris, taking into account this project and its complexity, I think all is
going really well, and maybe we all want things happing much faster, but
maybe is not possible due to its own nature.
2016-10-13 9:45 GMT+02:00 piotrz <pi...@gmail.com>:
> Hi Chris,
>
> I've been silence cause lack of time. I've completely move to .NET WPF.
> I'm still reading and will be reading every posts, especially those related
> to FlexJS.
>
> I event try to from time to time encourage guys from JS team in my company
> to try FlexJS.
> Couple of weeks ago we had internal event in company - Hackaton - where one
> of my colleagues wanted to try FlexJS, but cause of lack of documentation
> about how actually do something more complex he dropped it. (Unfortunately
> I
> couldn't participate to these event, cause I would help him).
>
> I'm constantly trying at some point spread the world about all these things
> which you are guys doing and really really wish I could help more, but I
> have only 24 hours. :(
>
> Piotr
>
>
>
> -----
> Apache Flex PMC
> piotrzarzycki21@gmail.com
> --
> View this message in context: http://apache-flex-development
> .2333347.n4.nabble.com/Discuss-What-s-keeping-the-
> others-from-participating-tp55730p55733.html
> Sent from the Apache Flex Development mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>
--
Carlos Rovira
Director General
M: +34 607 22 60 05
http://www.codeoscopic.com
http://www.avant2.es
Este mensaje se dirige exclusivamente a su destinatario y puede contener
información privilegiada o confidencial. Si ha recibido este mensaje por
error, le rogamos que nos lo comunique inmediatamente por esta misma vía y
proceda a su destrucción.
De la vigente Ley Orgánica de Protección de Datos (15/1999), le comunicamos
que sus datos forman parte de un fichero cuyo responsable es CODEOSCOPIC
S.A. La finalidad de dicho tratamiento es facilitar la prestación del
servicio o información solicitados, teniendo usted derecho de acceso,
rectificación, cancelación y oposición de sus datos dirigiéndose a nuestras
oficinas c/ Paseo de la Habana 9-11, 28036, Madrid con la documentación
necesaria.
Re: [Discuss] What's keeping the others from participating?
Posted by piotrz <pi...@gmail.com>.
Hi Chris,
I've been silence cause lack of time. I've completely move to .NET WPF.
I'm still reading and will be reading every posts, especially those related
to FlexJS.
I event try to from time to time encourage guys from JS team in my company
to try FlexJS.
Couple of weeks ago we had internal event in company - Hackaton - where one
of my colleagues wanted to try FlexJS, but cause of lack of documentation
about how actually do something more complex he dropped it. (Unfortunately I
couldn't participate to these event, cause I would help him).
I'm constantly trying at some point spread the world about all these things
which you are guys doing and really really wish I could help more, but I
have only 24 hours. :(
Piotr
-----
Apache Flex PMC
piotrzarzycki21@gmail.com
--
View this message in context: http://apache-flex-development.2333347.n4.nabble.com/Discuss-What-s-keeping-the-others-from-participating-tp55730p55733.html
Sent from the Apache Flex Development mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
Re: [Discuss] What's keeping the others from participating?
Posted by OK <po...@olafkrueger.net>.
Hi Chris,
I hope that you don't really think that your effort is waste of time!!!
Like others I've also not so much time and I've spend most of this time with
testing the maven build in the past.
I think FlexJS is on a good way but we should care to not raise false
expectations.
During my FlexJS journey I stumbled and still stumble over some issues. Of
course issues are expected but any issue cost time: E.g. it cost time to
check if it's my fault or if it could be a bug.
In the case of a bug it's not always so easy for me to isolate it and to
create a reproducible test case.
And to fix the bug by myself by commiting some clever code is a complete
other story.
But I'm still optimistic that I'll able to commit something useful in the
future...
From my point of view what is really needed for 1.0 is a complete componet
set that works including some docs and code snipptes.
Just my 2 cents,
Olaf
--
View this message in context: http://apache-flex-development.2333347.n4.nabble.com/Discuss-What-s-keeping-the-others-from-participating-tp55730p55844.html
Sent from the Apache Flex Development mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
Re: [Discuss] What's keeping the others from participating?
Posted by Justin Mclean <ju...@classsoftware.com>.
Hi,
While I’m still precipitating and not exactly silent - it’s not as much as I once was contributing.
Reasons in no particular order.
- I’m mentoring and involved in a number of other Apache projects and need to split my limited volunteer time between them
- I’m no longer working on Flex work full time
- It’s unlikely I would be able to get paid work using FLexJS in the near future
- FlexJS was very hard to compile (until recently)
- There is little FlexJS documentation (but improving)
- It’s hard to keep up with changes
- FLexJS release notes don’t describe changes between versions
- Some other communities (Apache and elsewhere) are more welcoming
- Issues that should be easily fixed aren't. If this wasn’t the case I would have time to commit more.
Thanks,
Justin
Re: [Discuss] What's keeping the others from participating?
Posted by Maxim Solodovnik <so...@gmail.com>.
I currently have no time at all :(
I'm trying to move forward my "main" Apache project
And need to do day time work :((
Hopefully will find some time and will try to contribute something :)
On Fri, Oct 14, 2016 at 4:12 PM, Tom Chiverton <tc...@extravision.com> wrote:
> For me, FlexJS is 'rocket science' - I'm not an expert in compilers, or
> even the build tools involved - I've written a few simple maven scripts
> here and there.
>
> I also have less time - my employeer has a single Flex application now,
> and one in AIR. New work is in Ember, Angular or some other 'JS native'
> framework.
>
> I was looking to help with the change the website CMS but I've been well
> beaten to it :-)
>
> I do not see a problem in "living with it".
>
> Tom
>
>
> On 13/10/16 07:08, Christofer Dutz wrote:
>
>> Hi guys,
>>
>>
>> I just wanted to take the opportunity to ask you what's keeping you from
>> participating in any discussions here on the list and on contributing
>> anything else.
>>
>>
>> Apache Flex currently has the 10th largest committer base in the ASF, but
>> currently it feels like there is only 4-5 people still active on this
>> project. Having this in-diversity in discussions is starting to get more
>> and more tiresome as I almost know the responses which are going to come if
>> I post something. I think most of the time I could start writing the reply
>> for the expected response right away so I don't have to do it later.
>>
>>
>> Are we doing something wrong?
>>
>>
>> What's keeping all of you stay silent?
>>
>>
>> Is is:
>>
>> - lack of interest?
>>
>> - lack of time?
>>
>> - that you think this is too much rocket-science? / It's too complicated
>> to contribute
>>
>> - a consumer attitude that you just want to know what others are doing
>> for you?
>>
>>
>> Apache is all about community, but for me this doesn't feel much like a
>> community anymore. Sometimes I think we could rename dev@flex.apache.org
>> to alex@flex.apache.org as he is definitely the most active poster.
>> Discussing stuff with the project sort of feels more and more like "If I
>> want to change something, I'll take it to the list and discuss it with Alex
>> first". It shouldn't be that way.
>>
>>
>> Is is just us 4-5 people and we simply have to live with it, or can we do
>> anything to get you guys back on board?
>>
>>
>> For the last more-than-a-year I have been working exclusively on trying
>> to lower the complexity to contribute in order to get more people on board.
>> It seems that effort was a waste of time. Please prove me wrong.
>>
>>
>> @Alex: I would like to kindly ask you to please refrain from responding
>> right away and let at least a hand full of others respond first. I would
>> like to see if this eventually prevents the "someone else is taking care of
>> it for me" effect.
>>
>>
>> Chris
>>
>>
>> ______________________________________________________________________
>> This email has been scanned by the Symantec Email Security.cloud service.
>> For more information please visit http://www.symanteccloud.com
>> ______________________________________________________________________
>>
>
>
--
WBR
Maxim aka solomax
Re: [Discuss] What's keeping the others from participating?
Posted by Tom Chiverton <tc...@extravision.com>.
For me, FlexJS is 'rocket science' - I'm not an expert in compilers, or
even the build tools involved - I've written a few simple maven scripts
here and there.
I also have less time - my employeer has a single Flex application now,
and one in AIR. New work is in Ember, Angular or some other 'JS native'
framework.
I was looking to help with the change the website CMS but I've been well
beaten to it :-)
I do not see a problem in "living with it".
Tom
On 13/10/16 07:08, Christofer Dutz wrote:
> Hi guys,
>
>
> I just wanted to take the opportunity to ask you what's keeping you from participating in any discussions here on the list and on contributing anything else.
>
>
> Apache Flex currently has the 10th largest committer base in the ASF, but currently it feels like there is only 4-5 people still active on this project. Having this in-diversity in discussions is starting to get more and more tiresome as I almost know the responses which are going to come if I post something. I think most of the time I could start writing the reply for the expected response right away so I don't have to do it later.
>
>
> Are we doing something wrong?
>
>
> What's keeping all of you stay silent?
>
>
> Is is:
>
> - lack of interest?
>
> - lack of time?
>
> - that you think this is too much rocket-science? / It's too complicated to contribute
>
> - a consumer attitude that you just want to know what others are doing for you?
>
>
> Apache is all about community, but for me this doesn't feel much like a community anymore. Sometimes I think we could rename dev@flex.apache.org to alex@flex.apache.org as he is definitely the most active poster. Discussing stuff with the project sort of feels more and more like "If I want to change something, I'll take it to the list and discuss it with Alex first". It shouldn't be that way.
>
>
> Is is just us 4-5 people and we simply have to live with it, or can we do anything to get you guys back on board?
>
>
> For the last more-than-a-year I have been working exclusively on trying to lower the complexity to contribute in order to get more people on board. It seems that effort was a waste of time. Please prove me wrong.
>
>
> @Alex: I would like to kindly ask you to please refrain from responding right away and let at least a hand full of others respond first. I would like to see if this eventually prevents the "someone else is taking care of it for me" effect.
>
>
> Chris
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________________
> This email has been scanned by the Symantec Email Security.cloud service.
> For more information please visit http://www.symanteccloud.com
> ______________________________________________________________________