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Posted to dev@netbeans.apache.org by Geertjan Wielenga <ge...@googlemail.com> on 2017/03/23 15:55:59 UTC
[mentors] Clearance for upcoming NetBeans events
Hi all, especially our Apache mentors,
I've been told by Mark Struberg that we need to get clearance for NetBeans
events, re this link:
https://www.apache.org/foundation/marks/events.html
We have several upcoming NetBeans events, in fact, these are happening
continually, NetBeans events are organized all over the world by members of
the NetBeans community. Upcoming ones include the following:
April 2017:
NetBeans Day India in Bangalore
NetBeans Day UK in London
NetBeans Day Greece in Athens
October 2017:
NetBeans Day San Francisco
January 2018
NetBeans Day Canada in Montreal
All these are organized via members of the Apache NetBeans community.
What needs to be done to get clearance for the above, as well as upcoming
events, must they be requested per event, etc.
Right now, the NetBeans brand has not been transferred officially to
Apache, we'd like to do this once the first code donation has taken place.
Ultimately I suppose all these events would be known as Apache NetBeans
Days rather than NetBeans Days.
Thanks,
Geertjan
Re: [mentors] Clearance for upcoming NetBeans events
Posted by Geertjan Wielenga <ge...@googlemail.com>.
About PMC:
https://www.apache.org/dev/pmc.html#what-is-a-pmc
But, again, please, there's only one question -- for the mentors to answer,
not anyone else to be concerned about: what's the approach we should take
to get clearance for NetBeans Days?
Gj
On Thu, Mar 23, 2017 at 11:20 PM, Geertjan Wielenga <
geertjan.wielenga@googlemail.com> wrote:
> I'm not proposing we do anything at all.
>
> I'm waiting for our mentors to tell us what the clearance proposal is for
> events such as NetBeans Days.
>
> Gj
>
>
> On Thu, Mar 23, 2017 at 11:14 PM, Kenneth Fogel <
> kfogel@dawsoncollege.qc.ca> wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> What do you propose that we do? I have a long lead time here in Montreal
>> but there are a lot of hoops. For example, who is my PMC?
>>
>> Ken
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Geertjan Wielenga [mailto:geertjan.wielenga@googlemail.com]
>> Sent: March 23, 2017 11:56 AM
>> To: dev@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
>> Subject: [mentors] Clearance for upcoming NetBeans events
>>
>> Hi all, especially our Apache mentors,
>>
>> I've been told by Mark Struberg that we need to get clearance for
>> NetBeans events, re this link:
>>
>> https://www.apache.org/foundation/marks/events.html
>>
>> We have several upcoming NetBeans events, in fact, these are happening
>> continually, NetBeans events are organized all over the world by members of
>> the NetBeans community. Upcoming ones include the following:
>>
>> April 2017:
>> NetBeans Day India in Bangalore
>> NetBeans Day UK in London
>> NetBeans Day Greece in Athens
>> October 2017:
>> NetBeans Day San Francisco
>> January 2018
>> NetBeans Day Canada in Montreal
>>
>> All these are organized via members of the Apache NetBeans community.
>>
>> What needs to be done to get clearance for the above, as well as upcoming
>> events, must they be requested per event, etc.
>>
>> Right now, the NetBeans brand has not been transferred officially to
>> Apache, we'd like to do this once the first code donation has taken place.
>> Ultimately I suppose all these events would be known as Apache NetBeans
>> Days rather than NetBeans Days.
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Geertjan
>>
>
>
Re: [mentors] Clearance for upcoming NetBeans events
Posted by Geertjan Wielenga <ge...@googlemail.com>.
The "we" is the Apache NetBeans community, i.e., everything is arranged by
people on the Initial Committers list or those who will be voted on as
committers of the Apache NetBeans PMC, as soon as we start doing the voting
for that, which will be some time from now once we're further with the code
donation.
And, yes, these are all small meetups, never more than around 100 though
more typically around 60 or so. Except for the main NetBeans Day in San
Francisco, which could have around 700 or so, depending on the session
during the Community Sunday Event right before JavaOne.
Gj
On Fri, Mar 24, 2017 at 12:23 AM, David Nalley <da...@gnsa.us> wrote:
> On Thu, Mar 23, 2017 at 6:28 PM, Geertjan Wielenga
> <ge...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> > We have continually running NetBeans Days. The next one will be in
> London,
> > Athens, Bangalore, San Francisco, and Montreal.
> >
> > Must we get clearance for each of these events?
> >
>
> To answer that question, it would be important to know who 'we' is in
> the above sentences.
>
> If a third-party is funding and putting these events on, then yes,
> they'll need approval, though you can probably get approval for an
> entire years worth at a time.
>
> > Ideally, I think, we should try ultimately to merge as much as possible
> with
> > official Apache events, i.e., have NetBeans sessions during ApacheCon
> and so
> > on, i.e., wherever an Apache event happens is where we should include
> > NetBeans content. That has the benefit of the NetBeans being able to
> bring
> > its community into the Apache fold, while being able to benefit from its
> > organizational structures etc. Is there a list of upcoming Apache
> > conferences where we could submit content? Could there be something like
> a
> > NetBeans track at Apache conferences?
>
> Yes, many projects do this - check out the current ApacheCon coming up
> in May. There's TomcatCon, The CloudStack Collaboration Conference,
> FlexJS, Cordova, etc. It just takes some planning in advance and
> staking a claim.
>
> >
> > At the same time, would be great to have clearance for the various
> events we
> > have planned, which are basically "meetups", i.e., just like probably
> many
> > other Apache projects have meetups, NetBeans Days are simply meetups too.
> > Does each meetup of an Apache project require a special clearance
> process?
> >
>
> Small meetups (say less than a couple hundred), without an external
> funding source likely won't have much in the way of overhead to
> approve. However, if it's a 3000 person 'meetup' that costs 500k to
> put on, I would expect a lot more.
>
> --David
>
Re: [mentors] Clearance for upcoming NetBeans events
Posted by David Nalley <da...@gnsa.us>.
On Thu, Mar 23, 2017 at 6:28 PM, Geertjan Wielenga
<ge...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> We have continually running NetBeans Days. The next one will be in London,
> Athens, Bangalore, San Francisco, and Montreal.
>
> Must we get clearance for each of these events?
>
To answer that question, it would be important to know who 'we' is in
the above sentences.
If a third-party is funding and putting these events on, then yes,
they'll need approval, though you can probably get approval for an
entire years worth at a time.
> Ideally, I think, we should try ultimately to merge as much as possible with
> official Apache events, i.e., have NetBeans sessions during ApacheCon and so
> on, i.e., wherever an Apache event happens is where we should include
> NetBeans content. That has the benefit of the NetBeans being able to bring
> its community into the Apache fold, while being able to benefit from its
> organizational structures etc. Is there a list of upcoming Apache
> conferences where we could submit content? Could there be something like a
> NetBeans track at Apache conferences?
Yes, many projects do this - check out the current ApacheCon coming up
in May. There's TomcatCon, The CloudStack Collaboration Conference,
FlexJS, Cordova, etc. It just takes some planning in advance and
staking a claim.
>
> At the same time, would be great to have clearance for the various events we
> have planned, which are basically "meetups", i.e., just like probably many
> other Apache projects have meetups, NetBeans Days are simply meetups too.
> Does each meetup of an Apache project require a special clearance process?
>
Small meetups (say less than a couple hundred), without an external
funding source likely won't have much in the way of overhead to
approve. However, if it's a 3000 person 'meetup' that costs 500k to
put on, I would expect a lot more.
--David
Re: [mentors] Clearance for upcoming NetBeans events
Posted by Geertjan Wielenga <ge...@googlemail.com>.
We have continually running NetBeans Days. The next one will be in London,
Athens, Bangalore, San Francisco, and Montreal.
Must we get clearance for each of these events?
Ideally, I think, we should try ultimately to merge as much as possible
with official Apache events, i.e., have NetBeans sessions during ApacheCon
and so on, i.e., wherever an Apache event happens is where we should
include NetBeans content. That has the benefit of the NetBeans being able
to bring its community into the Apache fold, while being able to benefit
from its organizational structures etc. Is there a list of upcoming Apache
conferences where we could submit content? Could there be something like a
NetBeans track at Apache conferences?
At the same time, would be great to have clearance for the various events
we have planned, which are basically "meetups", i.e., just like probably
many other Apache projects have meetups, NetBeans Days are simply meetups
too. Does each meetup of an Apache project require a special clearance
process?
Gj
On Thu, Mar 23, 2017 at 11:21 PM, Daniel Gruno <hu...@apache.org> wrote:
> On 03/23/2017 11:20 PM, Geertjan Wielenga wrote:
> > I'm not proposing we do anything at all.
> >
> > I'm waiting for our mentors to tell us what the clearance proposal is for
> > events such as NetBeans Days.
>
> You would have to get an okay from the brand committee, CC'ed on this
> email.
>
> >
> > Gj
> >
> >
> > On Thu, Mar 23, 2017 at 11:14 PM, Kenneth Fogel <
> kfogel@dawsoncollege.qc.ca>
> > wrote:
> >
> >> Hi,
> >>
> >> What do you propose that we do? I have a long lead time here in Montreal
> >> but there are a lot of hoops. For example, who is my PMC?
> >>
> >> Ken
> >>
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: Geertjan Wielenga [mailto:geertjan.wielenga@googlemail.com]
> >> Sent: March 23, 2017 11:56 AM
> >> To: dev@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
> >> Subject: [mentors] Clearance for upcoming NetBeans events
> >>
> >> Hi all, especially our Apache mentors,
> >>
> >> I've been told by Mark Struberg that we need to get clearance for
> NetBeans
> >> events, re this link:
> >>
> >> https://www.apache.org/foundation/marks/events.html
> >>
> >> We have several upcoming NetBeans events, in fact, these are happening
> >> continually, NetBeans events are organized all over the world by
> members of
> >> the NetBeans community. Upcoming ones include the following:
> >>
> >> April 2017:
> >> NetBeans Day India in Bangalore
> >> NetBeans Day UK in London
> >> NetBeans Day Greece in Athens
> >> October 2017:
> >> NetBeans Day San Francisco
> >> January 2018
> >> NetBeans Day Canada in Montreal
> >>
> >> All these are organized via members of the Apache NetBeans community.
> >>
> >> What needs to be done to get clearance for the above, as well as
> upcoming
> >> events, must they be requested per event, etc.
> >>
> >> Right now, the NetBeans brand has not been transferred officially to
> >> Apache, we'd like to do this once the first code donation has taken
> place.
> >> Ultimately I suppose all these events would be known as Apache NetBeans
> >> Days rather than NetBeans Days.
> >>
> >> Thanks,
> >>
> >> Geertjan
> >>
> >
>
>
Re: [mentors] Clearance for upcoming NetBeans events
Posted by Daniel Gruno <hu...@apache.org>.
On 03/23/2017 11:20 PM, Geertjan Wielenga wrote:
> I'm not proposing we do anything at all.
>
> I'm waiting for our mentors to tell us what the clearance proposal is for
> events such as NetBeans Days.
You would have to get an okay from the brand committee, CC'ed on this email.
>
> Gj
>
>
> On Thu, Mar 23, 2017 at 11:14 PM, Kenneth Fogel <kf...@dawsoncollege.qc.ca>
> wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> What do you propose that we do? I have a long lead time here in Montreal
>> but there are a lot of hoops. For example, who is my PMC?
>>
>> Ken
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Geertjan Wielenga [mailto:geertjan.wielenga@googlemail.com]
>> Sent: March 23, 2017 11:56 AM
>> To: dev@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
>> Subject: [mentors] Clearance for upcoming NetBeans events
>>
>> Hi all, especially our Apache mentors,
>>
>> I've been told by Mark Struberg that we need to get clearance for NetBeans
>> events, re this link:
>>
>> https://www.apache.org/foundation/marks/events.html
>>
>> We have several upcoming NetBeans events, in fact, these are happening
>> continually, NetBeans events are organized all over the world by members of
>> the NetBeans community. Upcoming ones include the following:
>>
>> April 2017:
>> NetBeans Day India in Bangalore
>> NetBeans Day UK in London
>> NetBeans Day Greece in Athens
>> October 2017:
>> NetBeans Day San Francisco
>> January 2018
>> NetBeans Day Canada in Montreal
>>
>> All these are organized via members of the Apache NetBeans community.
>>
>> What needs to be done to get clearance for the above, as well as upcoming
>> events, must they be requested per event, etc.
>>
>> Right now, the NetBeans brand has not been transferred officially to
>> Apache, we'd like to do this once the first code donation has taken place.
>> Ultimately I suppose all these events would be known as Apache NetBeans
>> Days rather than NetBeans Days.
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Geertjan
>>
>
Re: [mentors] Clearance for upcoming NetBeans events
Posted by Geertjan Wielenga <ge...@googlemail.com>.
I'm not proposing we do anything at all.
I'm waiting for our mentors to tell us what the clearance proposal is for
events such as NetBeans Days.
Gj
On Thu, Mar 23, 2017 at 11:14 PM, Kenneth Fogel <kf...@dawsoncollege.qc.ca>
wrote:
> Hi,
>
> What do you propose that we do? I have a long lead time here in Montreal
> but there are a lot of hoops. For example, who is my PMC?
>
> Ken
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Geertjan Wielenga [mailto:geertjan.wielenga@googlemail.com]
> Sent: March 23, 2017 11:56 AM
> To: dev@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
> Subject: [mentors] Clearance for upcoming NetBeans events
>
> Hi all, especially our Apache mentors,
>
> I've been told by Mark Struberg that we need to get clearance for NetBeans
> events, re this link:
>
> https://www.apache.org/foundation/marks/events.html
>
> We have several upcoming NetBeans events, in fact, these are happening
> continually, NetBeans events are organized all over the world by members of
> the NetBeans community. Upcoming ones include the following:
>
> April 2017:
> NetBeans Day India in Bangalore
> NetBeans Day UK in London
> NetBeans Day Greece in Athens
> October 2017:
> NetBeans Day San Francisco
> January 2018
> NetBeans Day Canada in Montreal
>
> All these are organized via members of the Apache NetBeans community.
>
> What needs to be done to get clearance for the above, as well as upcoming
> events, must they be requested per event, etc.
>
> Right now, the NetBeans brand has not been transferred officially to
> Apache, we'd like to do this once the first code donation has taken place.
> Ultimately I suppose all these events would be known as Apache NetBeans
> Days rather than NetBeans Days.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Geertjan
>
RE: [mentors] Clearance for upcoming NetBeans events
Posted by Kenneth Fogel <kf...@dawsoncollege.qc.ca>.
Hi,
What do you propose that we do? I have a long lead time here in Montreal but there are a lot of hoops. For example, who is my PMC?
Ken
-----Original Message-----
From: Geertjan Wielenga [mailto:geertjan.wielenga@googlemail.com]
Sent: March 23, 2017 11:56 AM
To: dev@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
Subject: [mentors] Clearance for upcoming NetBeans events
Hi all, especially our Apache mentors,
I've been told by Mark Struberg that we need to get clearance for NetBeans events, re this link:
https://www.apache.org/foundation/marks/events.html
We have several upcoming NetBeans events, in fact, these are happening continually, NetBeans events are organized all over the world by members of the NetBeans community. Upcoming ones include the following:
April 2017:
NetBeans Day India in Bangalore
NetBeans Day UK in London
NetBeans Day Greece in Athens
October 2017:
NetBeans Day San Francisco
January 2018
NetBeans Day Canada in Montreal
All these are organized via members of the Apache NetBeans community.
What needs to be done to get clearance for the above, as well as upcoming events, must they be requested per event, etc.
Right now, the NetBeans brand has not been transferred officially to Apache, we'd like to do this once the first code donation has taken place.
Ultimately I suppose all these events would be known as Apache NetBeans Days rather than NetBeans Days.
Thanks,
Geertjan
Re: [mentors] Clearance for upcoming NetBeans events
Posted by Geertjan Wielenga <ge...@googlemail.com>.
Great, looks like we're all on the same page.
Gj
On Fri, Mar 24, 2017 at 9:33 AM, Mark Struberg <st...@yahoo.de.invalid>
wrote:
> Yes it's totally understandable. Both parties are acting in good faith, so
> I see absolutely no problem right now.
>
> LieGrue,
> strub
>
> > Am 24.03.2017 um 09:29 schrieb Raphael Bircher <rbircherapache@gmail.com
> >:
> >
> > Hi all
> >
> > Am .03.2017, 09:09 Uhr, schrieb Bertrand Delacretaz <
> bdelacretaz@apache.org>:
> >
> >> On Fri, Mar 24, 2017 at 9:06 AM, Mark Struberg
> >> <st...@yahoo.de.invalid> wrote:
> >>> ...For NetBeans it's currently a bit different since the 'NetBeans'
> trademark is still
> >>> owned by Oracle and will probably only be handed over into the custody
> of the
> >>> ASF on graduation. So legally the one to ask is currently Oracle,
> right Geertjan?...
> >>
> >> While you are technically right, as a mentor I would not approve the
> >> graduation of NetBeans without the trademark being officially
> >> transferred, so I think this should happen rather sooner than later.
> >
> > Probably they wait, until they are 100% sure that a successful IP grant
> is possible. If they transfer the TM before and NetBeans would fail for
> license reason, it could be a desaster for NetBeans. But you are right, no
> graduation without the TM. I would say, there have to be a Release under
> the Apache Name first.
> >
> > But I'm pretty sure, we talk all about the same ;-)
> >
> >>
> >> I think it's great that the NetBeans PPMC is acting as if the
> >> trademark is already transferred, as part of learning to operate as
> >> Apache project. Assuming the current owner of the NetBeans mark
> >> agrees.
> >
> > Big +1 here.
> >
> >
> > Regards, Raphael
> >
> >
> > --
> > My introduction https://youtu.be/Ln4vly5sxYU
>
>
Re: [mentors] Clearance for upcoming NetBeans events
Posted by Mark Struberg <st...@yahoo.de.INVALID>.
Yes it's totally understandable. Both parties are acting in good faith, so I see absolutely no problem right now.
LieGrue,
strub
> Am 24.03.2017 um 09:29 schrieb Raphael Bircher <rb...@gmail.com>:
>
> Hi all
>
> Am .03.2017, 09:09 Uhr, schrieb Bertrand Delacretaz <bd...@apache.org>:
>
>> On Fri, Mar 24, 2017 at 9:06 AM, Mark Struberg
>> <st...@yahoo.de.invalid> wrote:
>>> ...For NetBeans it's currently a bit different since the 'NetBeans' trademark is still
>>> owned by Oracle and will probably only be handed over into the custody of the
>>> ASF on graduation. So legally the one to ask is currently Oracle, right Geertjan?...
>>
>> While you are technically right, as a mentor I would not approve the
>> graduation of NetBeans without the trademark being officially
>> transferred, so I think this should happen rather sooner than later.
>
> Probably they wait, until they are 100% sure that a successful IP grant is possible. If they transfer the TM before and NetBeans would fail for license reason, it could be a desaster for NetBeans. But you are right, no graduation without the TM. I would say, there have to be a Release under the Apache Name first.
>
> But I'm pretty sure, we talk all about the same ;-)
>
>>
>> I think it's great that the NetBeans PPMC is acting as if the
>> trademark is already transferred, as part of learning to operate as
>> Apache project. Assuming the current owner of the NetBeans mark
>> agrees.
>
> Big +1 here.
>
>
> Regards, Raphael
>
>
> --
> My introduction https://youtu.be/Ln4vly5sxYU
Re: [mentors] Clearance for upcoming NetBeans events
Posted by Raphael Bircher <rb...@gmail.com>.
Hi all
Am .03.2017, 09:09 Uhr, schrieb Bertrand Delacretaz
<bd...@apache.org>:
> On Fri, Mar 24, 2017 at 9:06 AM, Mark Struberg
> <st...@yahoo.de.invalid> wrote:
>> ...For NetBeans it's currently a bit different since the 'NetBeans'
>> trademark is still
>> owned by Oracle and will probably only be handed over into the custody
>> of the
>> ASF on graduation. So legally the one to ask is currently Oracle, right
>> Geertjan?...
>
> While you are technically right, as a mentor I would not approve the
> graduation of NetBeans without the trademark being officially
> transferred, so I think this should happen rather sooner than later.
Probably they wait, until they are 100% sure that a successful IP grant is
possible. If they transfer the TM before and NetBeans would fail for
license reason, it could be a desaster for NetBeans. But you are right, no
graduation without the TM. I would say, there have to be a Release under
the Apache Name first.
But I'm pretty sure, we talk all about the same ;-)
>
> I think it's great that the NetBeans PPMC is acting as if the
> trademark is already transferred, as part of learning to operate as
> Apache project. Assuming the current owner of the NetBeans mark
> agrees.
Big +1 here.
Regards, Raphael
--
My introduction https://youtu.be/Ln4vly5sxYU
Re: [mentors] Clearance for upcoming NetBeans events
Posted by Mark Struberg <st...@yahoo.de.INVALID>.
Indeed, but _currently_ - from a purely legal pov - the organisers of any such event need to ask the current trademark holder of the 'NetBeans' mark.
And this is _currently_ Oracle. If I run a "Porsche days" event then I of course also have to ask the Porsche company for clearance...
You know, as a pure developer one often forgets about all the nasty other stuff which is requied to protect your work.
The ASF umbrella is there to guide the single projects on their way to do it right.
I even think it's enough that we raised awareness in the community and PPMC that such an ACK step from the trademark holder is legally needed - regardless who owns it. At the end it might cost 30 minutes and then all is done.
LieGrue,
strub
> Am 24.03.2017 um 09:09 schrieb Bertrand Delacretaz <bd...@apache.org>:
>
> On Fri, Mar 24, 2017 at 9:06 AM, Mark Struberg
> <st...@yahoo.de.invalid> wrote:
>> ...For NetBeans it's currently a bit different since the 'NetBeans' trademark is still
>> owned by Oracle and will probably only be handed over into the custody of the
>> ASF on graduation. So legally the one to ask is currently Oracle, right Geertjan?...
>
> While you are technically right, as a mentor I would not approve the
> graduation of NetBeans without the trademark being officially
> transferred, so I think this should happen rather sooner than later.
>
> I think it's great that the NetBeans PPMC is acting as if the
> trademark is already transferred, as part of learning to operate as
> Apache project. Assuming the current owner of the NetBeans mark
> agrees.
>
> -Bertrand
Re: [mentors] Clearance for upcoming NetBeans events
Posted by Bertrand Delacretaz <bd...@apache.org>.
On Fri, Mar 24, 2017 at 9:06 AM, Mark Struberg
<st...@yahoo.de.invalid> wrote:
> ...For NetBeans it's currently a bit different since the 'NetBeans' trademark is still
> owned by Oracle and will probably only be handed over into the custody of the
> ASF on graduation. So legally the one to ask is currently Oracle, right Geertjan?...
While you are technically right, as a mentor I would not approve the
graduation of NetBeans without the trademark being officially
transferred, so I think this should happen rather sooner than later.
I think it's great that the NetBeans PPMC is acting as if the
trademark is already transferred, as part of learning to operate as
Apache project. Assuming the current owner of the NetBeans mark
agrees.
-Bertrand
Re: [mentors] Clearance for upcoming NetBeans events
Posted by Bertrand Delacretaz <bd...@apache.org>.
Hi,
On Mon, Mar 27, 2017 at 1:42 PM, Geertjan Wielenga
<ge...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> ...Relating to this discussion, are there channels we can use to announce our
> events?...
I suppose the Apache News posts at
https://blogs.apache.org/foundation/ could mention those events, best
is to contact press@a.ao for that.
-Bertrand
Re: [mentors] Clearance for upcoming NetBeans events
Posted by Raphael Bircher <rb...@gmail.com>.
Am .03.2017, 13:42 Uhr, schrieb Geertjan Wielenga
<ge...@googlemail.com>:
> Relating to this discussion, are there channels we can use to announce
> our
> events?
>
> For example, we have NetBeans Day UK coming up on Tuesday, April 25th, in
> London -- and it would be great if the whole Apache community would be
> aware of this (free) event, where several Apache projects (e.g., Maven,
> for
> example) will be used and highlighted in the context of the tooling that
> NetBeans provides. Plus, those communities from Apache projects for which
> there's no tooling in NetBeans could be interested in attending too, to
> find out how to integrate those into NetBeans.
>
> How would we go about reaching out to Apache folks around the world about
> this, especially for this specific event in the UK?
Did, are you subscribed to ComDev. dev@community.a.o. There is a calender
for the upcomming events. If you create a event on Facebook, I can share
it on the ASF Facebook page.
Regards, Raphael
>
> Thanks,
>
> Geertjan
>
> On Fri, Mar 24, 2017 at 3:27 PM, Bertrand Delacretaz
> <bdelacretaz@apache.org
>> wrote:
>
>> On Fri, Mar 24, 2017 at 10:21 AM, Mark Struberg
>> <st...@yahoo.de.invalid> wrote:
>> >... I'd also like to emphase that the ASF usually tries to not be an
>> overly beaurocratic place...
>>
>> Indeed - what I was trying to do is to explain the reasoning behind
>> our few strict rules, so that people understand the spirit.
>>
>> -Bertrand
>>
--
My introduction https://youtu.be/Ln4vly5sxYU
Re: [mentors] Clearance for upcoming NetBeans events
Posted by Geertjan Wielenga <ge...@googlemail.com>.
Relating to this discussion, are there channels we can use to announce our
events?
For example, we have NetBeans Day UK coming up on Tuesday, April 25th, in
London -- and it would be great if the whole Apache community would be
aware of this (free) event, where several Apache projects (e.g., Maven, for
example) will be used and highlighted in the context of the tooling that
NetBeans provides. Plus, those communities from Apache projects for which
there's no tooling in NetBeans could be interested in attending too, to
find out how to integrate those into NetBeans.
How would we go about reaching out to Apache folks around the world about
this, especially for this specific event in the UK?
Thanks,
Geertjan
On Fri, Mar 24, 2017 at 3:27 PM, Bertrand Delacretaz <bdelacretaz@apache.org
> wrote:
> On Fri, Mar 24, 2017 at 10:21 AM, Mark Struberg
> <st...@yahoo.de.invalid> wrote:
> >... I'd also like to emphase that the ASF usually tries to not be an
> overly beaurocratic place...
>
> Indeed - what I was trying to do is to explain the reasoning behind
> our few strict rules, so that people understand the spirit.
>
> -Bertrand
>
Re: [mentors] Clearance for upcoming NetBeans events
Posted by Bertrand Delacretaz <bd...@apache.org>.
On Fri, Mar 24, 2017 at 10:21 AM, Mark Struberg
<st...@yahoo.de.invalid> wrote:
>... I'd also like to emphase that the ASF usually tries to not be an overly beaurocratic place...
Indeed - what I was trying to do is to explain the reasoning behind
our few strict rules, so that people understand the spirit.
-Bertrand
Re: [mentors] Clearance for upcoming NetBeans events
Posted by Mark Struberg <st...@yahoo.de.INVALID>.
Thanks Mark, didn't expect anything else.
I'd also like to emphase that the ASF usually tries to not be an overly beaurocratic place.
But since some unspoken 'common sense' rules got broken in the past we sadly had to pin down a few of them :(
LieGrue,
strub
> Am 24.03.2017 um 10:06 schrieb Mark Stephens <ma...@idrsolutions.com>:
>
>
>> On 24 Mar 2017, at 08:59, Bertrand Delacretaz <bd...@apache.org> wrote:
>>
>> On Fri, Mar 24, 2017 at 9:30 AM, Mark Stephens
>> <ma...@idrsolutions.com> wrote:
>>> ...The NetBeans Days are always organised by Community members, although we are not above using any sway we have over
>>> any commercial entity (and fellow NetBeans enthusiasts there) to gain resources, time, venues, funds, raffle prizes, etc...
>>
>> Ok, so from an Apache point of view what's important (besides
>> trademarks being respected) is that all organizations are treated
>> fairly and that it's clear that they cannot "own" the event or
>> project.
>>
>> Making sure we don't favor commercial entities or organizations over
>> others is a strong requirement of the ASF's 501c(3) status, so we're
>> very picky about that.
>>
>> And besides this legal requirement, it's what makes the ASF a unique
>> place where companies which might compete in the market can
>> collaborate in a fair way, due to our very neutral status.
>>
>> -Bertrand
>
> Bertrand,
>
> We will stick to both the letter and the spirit of the rules.
>
> Thanks for clarifying.
>
> Regards,
>
> MArk
>
Re: [mentors] Clearance for upcoming NetBeans events
Posted by Mark Stephens <ma...@idrsolutions.com>.
> On 24 Mar 2017, at 08:59, Bertrand Delacretaz <bd...@apache.org> wrote:
>
> On Fri, Mar 24, 2017 at 9:30 AM, Mark Stephens
> <ma...@idrsolutions.com> wrote:
>> ...The NetBeans Days are always organised by Community members, although we are not above using any sway we have over
>> any commercial entity (and fellow NetBeans enthusiasts there) to gain resources, time, venues, funds, raffle prizes, etc...
>
> Ok, so from an Apache point of view what's important (besides
> trademarks being respected) is that all organizations are treated
> fairly and that it's clear that they cannot "own" the event or
> project.
>
> Making sure we don't favor commercial entities or organizations over
> others is a strong requirement of the ASF's 501c(3) status, so we're
> very picky about that.
>
> And besides this legal requirement, it's what makes the ASF a unique
> place where companies which might compete in the market can
> collaborate in a fair way, due to our very neutral status.
>
> -Bertrand
Bertrand,
We will stick to both the letter and the spirit of the rules.
Thanks for clarifying.
Regards,
MArk
Re: [mentors] Clearance for upcoming NetBeans events
Posted by Bertrand Delacretaz <bd...@apache.org>.
On Fri, Mar 24, 2017 at 9:30 AM, Mark Stephens
<ma...@idrsolutions.com> wrote:
> ...The NetBeans Days are always organised by Community members, although we are not above using any sway we have over
> any commercial entity (and fellow NetBeans enthusiasts there) to gain resources, time, venues, funds, raffle prizes, etc...
Ok, so from an Apache point of view what's important (besides
trademarks being respected) is that all organizations are treated
fairly and that it's clear that they cannot "own" the event or
project.
Making sure we don't favor commercial entities or organizations over
others is a strong requirement of the ASF's 501c(3) status, so we're
very picky about that.
And besides this legal requirement, it's what makes the ASF a unique
place where companies which might compete in the market can
collaborate in a fair way, due to our very neutral status.
-Bertrand
Re: [mentors] Clearance for upcoming NetBeans events
Posted by Mark Stephens <ma...@idrsolutions.com>.
> On 24 Mar 2017, at 08:06, Mark Struberg <st...@yahoo.de.INVALID> wrote:
>
>
> Being one of the mentors I asked Geertjan in a private mail for a bit of background for the NetBeans Day events.
> I literally had no clue whether this was run by the community or some commercial entity.
The NetBeans Days are always organised by Community members, although we are not above using any sway we have over any commercial entity (and fellow NetBeans enthusiasts there) to gain resources, time, venues, funds, raffle prizes, etc.
Regards,
MArk Stephens
(Organizer of Netbeans Day UK)
Re: [mentors] Clearance for upcoming NetBeans events
Posted by Mark Struberg <st...@yahoo.de.INVALID>.
Hi folks!
Let me first say that I really love that the Community is holding their own get-togethers, events and conferences!
Being one of the mentors I asked Geertjan in a private mail for a bit of background for the NetBeans Day events.
I literally had no clue whether this was run by the community or some commercial entity.
To give you some background about WHY the ASF introduced any rules in the first place.
For a long time we had no such rules. But at some time a few successful trademarks (take a few names in the BigData area) got used by some $$BigCorps in a way that it looks like those $$BigCorps do actually OWN those projects. This is of course not acceptable. It defeats the community and it would even invalidate the project names as being 'owned' by the actual project. That's why we came up with the own VP trademarks and ask the single projects to more actively defend their marks - simply because otherwise they would be trashed and gone in no time. In extremis this might end in the project cannot use their own name!
This is simiilar to legal help projects do licensing 'right' which of course creates some work, but ultimately defends the projects integrity in a fundamental way.
For the Conferences we had similar problems. There was a $BigDataProject (you know, the one with the Elefant) where we have been confronted with some "$BigDataProject World" conferences without the ASF and neither the project know about it. The next step was that some $$BigCorps tried to occupy the successful project by launching a "$$BigCorp $BigDataProject World" event. Even less ok. Especially since other vendors got totally blocked from this event :(
And to prevent such things from happen the ASF now requires to get the Ack from the Trademarks team for any Events where an Apache brand is being used.
For community events this is almost always just hand waiving. But I guess you understand that we must apply the same rules to everybody in the same way.
At the end it's for the protection of the project and the community!
For NetBeans it's currently a bit different since the 'NetBeans' trademark is still owned by Oracle and will probably only be handed over into the custody of the ASF on graduation. So legally the one to ask is currently Oracle, right Geertjan?
Hope that clarifies the reason why I asked Geertjan how those things are currently dealt with.
Currently all is fine how it was dealt with it seems.
LieGrue,
strub
> Am 24.03.2017 um 02:21 schrieb Craig Russell <cr...@oracle.com>:
>
> Hi Geertjan,
>
>> On Mar 23, 2017, at 8:55 AM, Geertjan Wielenga <ge...@googlemail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Hi all, especially our Apache mentors,
>>
>> I've been told by Mark Struberg that we need to get clearance for NetBeans
>> events, re this link:
>>
>> https://www.apache.org/foundation/marks/events.html
>>
>> We have several upcoming NetBeans events, in fact, these are happening
>> continually, NetBeans events are organized all over the world by members of
>> the NetBeans community. Upcoming ones include the following:
>>
>> April 2017:
>> NetBeans Day India in Bangalore
>> NetBeans Day UK in London
>> NetBeans Day Greece in Athens
>> October 2017:
>> NetBeans Day San Francisco
>> January 2018
>> NetBeans Day Canada in Montreal
>>
>> All these are organized via members of the Apache NetBeans community.
>>
>> What needs to be done to get clearance for the above, as well as upcoming
>> events, must they be requested per event, etc.
>
> Clearance is granted by VP, Brand (Shane Curcuru) usually in response to an email to trademarks@apache.org with a description of what is being requested. This is a private email list. The request should reference any discussion that has happened on dev and private lists to give complete context.
>
> For a list of events such as you’ve described, a blanket request is fine assuming that the (P)PMC has been involved. A description of the events and the involvement of the (P)PMC is what VP, Brand will use to either approve or ask more questions.
>
> Casual get-togethers with no commercial sponsors are probably easier to get approval for.
>>
>> Right now, the NetBeans brand has not been transferred officially to
>> Apache, we'd like to do this once the first code donation has taken place.
>
> Good to start planning now.
>
>> Ultimately I suppose all these events would be known as Apache NetBeans
>> Days rather than NetBeans Days.
>
> This is currently not part of the allowed event branding, although it is under discussion.
>
> Hope this helps,
>
> Craig
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Geertjan
>
> Craig L Russell
> clr@apache.org
Re: [mentors] Clearance for upcoming NetBeans events
Posted by Bertrand Delacretaz <bd...@apache.org>.
Hi,
On Fri, Mar 24, 2017 at 2:21 AM, Craig Russell <cr...@oracle.com> wrote:
> ...Clearance is granted by VP, Brand (Shane Curcuru) usually in response to an
> email to trademarks@apache.org with a description of what is being requested.
> This is a private email list. The request should reference any discussion that
> has happened on dev and private lists to give complete context....
It might be useful to keep a list of such approved events on the
NetBeans Wiki, especially the NetBeans PMC wants to get approval for
them again later.
-Bertrand
Re: [mentors] Clearance for upcoming NetBeans events
Posted by Craig Russell <cr...@oracle.com>.
Hi Geertjan,
> On Mar 23, 2017, at 8:55 AM, Geertjan Wielenga <ge...@googlemail.com> wrote:
>
> Hi all, especially our Apache mentors,
>
> I've been told by Mark Struberg that we need to get clearance for NetBeans
> events, re this link:
>
> https://www.apache.org/foundation/marks/events.html
>
> We have several upcoming NetBeans events, in fact, these are happening
> continually, NetBeans events are organized all over the world by members of
> the NetBeans community. Upcoming ones include the following:
>
> April 2017:
> NetBeans Day India in Bangalore
> NetBeans Day UK in London
> NetBeans Day Greece in Athens
> October 2017:
> NetBeans Day San Francisco
> January 2018
> NetBeans Day Canada in Montreal
>
> All these are organized via members of the Apache NetBeans community.
>
> What needs to be done to get clearance for the above, as well as upcoming
> events, must they be requested per event, etc.
Clearance is granted by VP, Brand (Shane Curcuru) usually in response to an email to trademarks@apache.org with a description of what is being requested. This is a private email list. The request should reference any discussion that has happened on dev and private lists to give complete context.
For a list of events such as you’ve described, a blanket request is fine assuming that the (P)PMC has been involved. A description of the events and the involvement of the (P)PMC is what VP, Brand will use to either approve or ask more questions.
Casual get-togethers with no commercial sponsors are probably easier to get approval for.
>
> Right now, the NetBeans brand has not been transferred officially to
> Apache, we'd like to do this once the first code donation has taken place.
Good to start planning now.
> Ultimately I suppose all these events would be known as Apache NetBeans
> Days rather than NetBeans Days.
This is currently not part of the allowed event branding, although it is under discussion.
Hope this helps,
Craig
>
> Thanks,
>
> Geertjan
Craig L Russell
clr@apache.org