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Posted to dev@flex.apache.org by sébastien Paturel <se...@gmail.com> on 2012/03/30 13:53:22 UTC
LCCS discontinued - infamous decision for Adobe clients
Hi.
Did some of you saw the Adobe announcement of discontinuing LCCS service?
it's SaS with built in complex real time features (video conferences,
real time messaging and events, screensharing, based on a clustered
architecture giving a convenient pay per use offering without you
needing to take the server side in charge) and they will simply shut it
down at the end of the year, giving only 9 month to find an alternative
which does not exists yet, and whithout giving any starting point
solution. And they already disallowed the creation of new accounts after
the decision, making any new project based on this solution born dead.
Its not only a decision to stop further developement (it was not a beta
version by the way).
Its not only that we have to use previous build to continue business (as
it is the case for FLash builder Design view or flash catalyst), its
that the product will simply stop functionning letting businesses
running on it simply stop!
What shoudl i do now when im a freelance and my clients app will stop
running at the end of the year, and have no clear alternative?
After all those bad communication from Adobe, now its a very bad
decision leaving customers with only rope to hang out. (please Hobby one
Adobe you are my only rope)
Is there any other flex dev in the list in the same situation than me?
Adobe's people from the list, how do you comment such a move?
Will they stop FMS tomorrow?
Bad communication si one thing, but shutting a service without
alternative, making clients facing business death, is another.
Even after all previous bad events, i still gave enough trust into
Adobe, now after this LCCS case, its totally gone for me!
How can we trust Adobe in any declaration now?
How could i choose any Adobe product after such a "we don't care of our
clients even if our decision kill them" move?
How is it possible that Adobe did not learn a bit after the catastrophy
of last episodes? So whats next??
How can we trust Adobe when they say that they believe in Flash player,
Air, and Flex for the 5 or 10 next years to come at least, when they
kill their great Flash based technology today?
Its important for Apache flex because:
- LCCS was a great third party lib for flex to very easily make real
time functionnalities with a very clear pricing system. I think that
real time was a big point for flex against HTML5 today.
- If Adobe is capable of such a bad decision putting clients in such a
catastrophic situation, how can we trust Adobe for flex's runtime
future, especially Air which need further updates, support new future
platforms etc?
- It makes the HTML5 cross compilation a priority more than ever. (by
the way, any news about Adobe letting community to have a look at the
code of Falcon and FalconJS before donating it?)
- It adds (AGAIN!) a very bad trust image for freelances and agencies
clients against Adobe's technology and flex, making even more difficult
to support the choice against HTML5.
If a client know that their business live is at stake by choosing
Adobe's solution (or based on it) the choice will be quite easy!
Thanks
Re: Donation of LCCS to Apache flex
Posted by sébastien Paturel <se...@gmail.com>.
Understood :)
Thanks
I'll do my best to convince them
Le 30/03/2012 22:27, Alex Harui a écrit :
>
>
> On 3/30/12 12:50 PM, "sébastien Paturel"<se...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I understand the point,
>> but i also adressed the question of open sourcing LCCS to apache flex,
> If the LCCS team does decide to donate code to Apache, other Apache members
> from Adobe will guide them as to the best way to do that. If the answer is
> Apache Flex, we will announce that on this list, but until then, please use
> the LCCS forum to try to convince them to donate in the first place.
>
Re: Donation of LCCS to Apache flex (was: LCCS discontinued -
infamous decision for Adobe clients)
Posted by Alex Harui <ah...@adobe.com>.
On 3/30/12 12:50 PM, "sébastien Paturel" <se...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I understand the point,
> but i also adressed the question of open sourcing LCCS to apache flex,
If the LCCS team does decide to donate code to Apache, other Apache members
from Adobe will guide them as to the best way to do that. If the answer is
Apache Flex, we will announce that on this list, but until then, please use
the LCCS forum to try to convince them to donate in the first place.
--
Alex Harui
Flex SDK Team
Adobe Systems, Inc.
http://blogs.adobe.com/aharui
Donation of LCCS to Apache flex (was: LCCS discontinued - infamous
decision for Adobe clients)
Posted by sébastien Paturel <se...@gmail.com>.
I understand the point,
but i also adressed the question of open sourcing LCCS to apache flex,
as said in the following: (BTW i just received a new answer from Jeff
who is still considering open sourcing as one of the possible solutions)
"If Adobe is able to open source (at least a part of) LCCS lib like for
example the client side AS3 components and the FMS server side code
Is it a stupid idea to propose to add it to the apache flex? Maybe we
could replace the FMS server side dependency with a blazeDS based server
side (dont know at all if it makes sense)
and thus combining LCCS client side AS3 components (open sourced by
Adobe, dont think theres third party license issue for that part) with
blazeDS server side for messaging and Red5 for medias (which would be
out of Apache scope), we could get powerfull real time features all
opensourced. and no matter what happens to FMS in the future.
Maybe im dreaming a bit, but what you thing of it?
for example will blazeDS be donated to apache as a separated project or
will it be included in Apache flex?
because smaller project like this may not get a big enough community to
be a full standalone apache project, but if its included in flex
powerfull community it will help.
"
Le 30/03/2012 19:22, Igor Costa a écrit :
> Sorry to interrupt the post on list. But if we're going to talk about only
> in Adobe movements we will lose the focus of this list
>
> Which I still remember is Flex project.
>
> Please, let's keep focused.
>
> Regards
> ----------------------------
> Igor Costa
> www.igorcosta.com
> www.igorcosta.org
>
>
> On Fri, Mar 30, 2012 at 1:44 PM, sébastien Paturel
> <se...@gmail.com>wrote:
>
>> Nicholas,
>>
>> "A few people have popped up talking about ways around that that usually
>> involve external Java libraries."
>> Would you have more precise infos to provide on that please? im
>> interesting to know more.
>>
>> Jeff message was more open minded regarding open source then that.
>> it says "To get the discussion started, here's some things I've looked at:
>> Open Source. We have looked at this as an option and it's simply not
>> viable for a number of reasons. There are dependancies on third party and
>> Adobe code that are extremely difficult to separate out. Some of this
>> code runs other services at Adobe that will continue to operate."
>> I read the following in another old thread: "and in any case the
>> application has large ties with our controlling application server, that in
>> turn has some ties with other Adobe services so it would need a lot of
>> cleanup to make it work standalone anyway".
>>
>> So i see no reason why they would not accept to donate the AS3 client lib
>> code to Apache.
>> the issue is for server side code, but if theres only this part to rewrite
>> its quite better than doing the whole from scratch.
>>
>> For FMS, wowza, Red5, i know it can be done but at what price in term of
>> coding efforts?
>> LCCS was great also because it was a high level component lib.
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>> Le 30/03/2012 17:03, Nicholas Kwiatkowski a écrit :
>>
>> Sebastien,
>>> Adobe has stated that they have no intentions in donating anything to do
>>> with LCCS, and they are making no plans or efforts to open-source anything
>>> to do with LCCS. They feel that it was a hosted ("rented") service, and
>>> they have no obligation to do it. A few of us have already asked the
>>> questions to Adobe, and they have repeated the same line.
>>>
>>> There are workable solutions that you can build with other products --
>>> FMS,
>>> Wowza, Red5 -- for just about everything except for the screen sharing. A
>>> few people have popped up talking about ways around that that usually
>>> involve external Java libraries.
>>>
>>> Aside from writing your own client code -- installing a Red5 server in AWS
>>> and having it serve your content there is actually cheaper than LCCS for
>>> most cases.
>>>
>>> -Nick
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, Mar 30, 2012 at 9:46 AM, sébastien Paturel
>>> <se...@gmail.com>wrote:
>>>
>>> @All
>>>> If Adobe is able to open source (at least a part of) LCCS lib like for
>>>> example the client side AS3 components and the FMS server side code
>>>> Is it a stupid idea to propose to add it to the apache flex? Maybe we
>>>> could replace the FMS server side dependency with a blazeDS based server
>>>> side (dont know at all if it makes sense)
>>>> and thus combining LCCS client side AS3 components (open source by Adobe,
>>>> dont think theres third party license issue for that part) with blazeDS
>>>> server side, we could get powerfull real time features all opensourced in
>>>> Apache. and no matter what happens to FMS in the future.
>>>> Maybe im dreaming a bit, but what you thing of it?
>>>>
>>>> for example will blazeDS be donated to apache as a separated project or
>>>> will it be included in Apache flex?
>>>> because smaller project like this may not get a big enough community to
>>>> be
>>>> a full standalone apache project, but if its included in flex powerfull
>>>> community it will help.
>>>>
>>>> @Giorgo
>>>> sounds interresting but:
>>>> What is your already complete solution?
>>>> Where can we find infos about it?
>>>> What server side technology is it based on? FMS?
>>>>
>>>> @Jitendra Jain
>>>> Can you please provide the quote and source of such announcement?
>>>> On my side i read that they will shut the service down december 31st,
>>>> even
>>>> for existing clients.
>>>> And the third party license issues are expressed only as an issue about
>>>> the option to open source LCCS, not as a reason to stop LCCS service.
>>>>
>>>> @gabriel
>>>> Yes i already checked it. But tanks.
>>>> I already sent an email to Jeff Stanier and am waiting for answer.
>>>> The quote you provide is great but its not reassuring at all.
>>>> Thing is they announce they will shutt all down with a fixed date, and
>>>> then they try to find a smooth transition solution (which will take time
>>>> to
>>>> set up).
>>>> A real professionnal timeline would be more to first search for a smooth
>>>> transition, then announce the shut down date with the proper path to
>>>> continue business for existing clients.
>>>> After such a quote what should be my next move? Should i wait Adobe and
>>>> Jeff to find a smooth solution but without knowing when this solution
>>>> will
>>>> be available, and even not knowing if it will never be available?
>>>> During that wait the clock is ticking and theres only 9 month to set up a
>>>> solution.
>>>> Or should i start to take a lot of unpaid time to search and test any
>>>> other alternative, to finally see Adobe coming with a convenient smooth
>>>> solution 3 month later?
>>>>
>>>> @jain saurabh
>>>> Red5 or wowza or other are more low level solutions, and before getting a
>>>> perfectly working solution to replace high level components of LCCS it
>>>> will
>>>> take a lot of work only to get things work as before.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks All for you replies
>>>>
>>>> Le 30/03/2012 14:55, Jitendra Jain a écrit :
>>>>
>>>> Adobe has already said that it is going to support already existing
>>>>
>>>>> clients
>>>>> even after discontinuing. Moreover this decision, which they have taken
>>>>> is
>>>>> because of third party license issues. It sounds more valid to me.
>>>>>
>>>>> On Fri, Mar 30, 2012 at 6:06 PM, Gabriel De Repentigny<
>>>>> gabriel.derepentigny@**bisonli**ne.com<http://bisonline.com><
>>>>> gabriel.derepentigny@**bisonline.com<ga...@bisonline.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> What shoudl i do now when im a freelance and my clients app will stop
>>>>>
>>>>>> running at the end of the year, and have no clear alternative?
>>>>>>> If you haven't seen it already, you may want to check the LCCS forum
>>>>>> at
>>>>>> Adobe. There are several threads where people are discussing LCCS
>>>>>> alternatives and how to transition to them.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Also, Jeff Stanier from Adobe has a thread on that topic here:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://forums.adobe.com/****message/4277140<http://forums.adobe.com/**message/4277140>
>>>>>> <http://forums.**adobe.com/message/4277140<http://forums.adobe.com/message/4277140>
>>>>>> He even gives out his email address in case you want to contact him
>>>>>> directly and discuss your concerns (though I've no idea if that'll do
>>>>>> any
>>>>>> good). Perhaps the most encouraging part of the thread is where he
>>>>>> says:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "I hear you and Adobe hears you and we are taking a look at some other
>>>>>> possible options to ease your transition from LCCS. This research will
>>>>>> take
>>>>>> some time but we will work as quickly as possible."
>>>>>>
>>>>>> For your sake, hopefully that means they'll find a way to either
>>>>>> transfer
>>>>>> most of the LCCS technology to someone else to run it or else donate it
>>>>>> to
>>>>>> the community.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
RE: LCCS discontinued - infamous decision for Adobe clients
Posted by "Michael A. Labriola" <la...@digitalprimates.net>.
>Haha, I see what you did there :-)
:)
Re: LCCS discontinued - infamous decision for Adobe clients
Posted by Om <bi...@gmail.com>.
>
> but the less mention of Adobe we can see and the more we can focus on our
> own future, without said vendor, the happier I will be.
>
Haha, I see what you did there :-)
On Fri, Mar 30, 2012 at 11:19 AM, Michael A. Labriola <
labriola@digitalprimates.net> wrote:
> >Sorry to interrupt the post on list. But if we're going to talk about
> only in Adobe movements we will lose the focus of this list
>
> I agree. Just to help us have a place to discuss, there is a forum for
> LCCS: http://forums.adobe.com/community/livecycle/lccs
>
> I think we should have this discussion there. I understand how it impacts
> everyone on this list, myself included, but the less mention of Adobe we
> can see and the more we can focus on our own future, without said vendor,
> the happier I will be.
>
> Mike
>
>
RE: LCCS discontinued - infamous decision for Adobe clients
Posted by "Michael A. Labriola" <la...@digitalprimates.net>.
>Sorry to interrupt the post on list. But if we're going to talk about only in Adobe movements we will lose the focus of this list
I agree. Just to help us have a place to discuss, there is a forum for LCCS: http://forums.adobe.com/community/livecycle/lccs
I think we should have this discussion there. I understand how it impacts everyone on this list, myself included, but the less mention of Adobe we can see and the more we can focus on our own future, without said vendor, the happier I will be.
Mike
Re: LCCS discontinued - infamous decision for Adobe clients
Posted by Igor Costa <ig...@gmail.com>.
Sorry to interrupt the post on list. But if we're going to talk about only
in Adobe movements we will lose the focus of this list
Which I still remember is Flex project.
Please, let's keep focused.
Regards
----------------------------
Igor Costa
www.igorcosta.com
www.igorcosta.org
On Fri, Mar 30, 2012 at 1:44 PM, sébastien Paturel
<se...@gmail.com>wrote:
> Nicholas,
>
> "A few people have popped up talking about ways around that that usually
> involve external Java libraries."
> Would you have more precise infos to provide on that please? im
> interesting to know more.
>
> Jeff message was more open minded regarding open source then that.
> it says "To get the discussion started, here's some things I've looked at:
> Open Source. We have looked at this as an option and it's simply not
> viable for a number of reasons. There are dependancies on third party and
> Adobe code that are extremely difficult to separate out. Some of this
> code runs other services at Adobe that will continue to operate."
> I read the following in another old thread: "and in any case the
> application has large ties with our controlling application server, that in
> turn has some ties with other Adobe services so it would need a lot of
> cleanup to make it work standalone anyway".
>
> So i see no reason why they would not accept to donate the AS3 client lib
> code to Apache.
> the issue is for server side code, but if theres only this part to rewrite
> its quite better than doing the whole from scratch.
>
> For FMS, wowza, Red5, i know it can be done but at what price in term of
> coding efforts?
> LCCS was great also because it was a high level component lib.
>
> Thanks
>
> Le 30/03/2012 17:03, Nicholas Kwiatkowski a écrit :
>
> Sebastien,
>>
>> Adobe has stated that they have no intentions in donating anything to do
>> with LCCS, and they are making no plans or efforts to open-source anything
>> to do with LCCS. They feel that it was a hosted ("rented") service, and
>> they have no obligation to do it. A few of us have already asked the
>> questions to Adobe, and they have repeated the same line.
>>
>> There are workable solutions that you can build with other products --
>> FMS,
>> Wowza, Red5 -- for just about everything except for the screen sharing. A
>> few people have popped up talking about ways around that that usually
>> involve external Java libraries.
>>
>> Aside from writing your own client code -- installing a Red5 server in AWS
>> and having it serve your content there is actually cheaper than LCCS for
>> most cases.
>>
>> -Nick
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Mar 30, 2012 at 9:46 AM, sébastien Paturel
>> <se...@gmail.com>wrote:
>>
>> @All
>>> If Adobe is able to open source (at least a part of) LCCS lib like for
>>> example the client side AS3 components and the FMS server side code
>>> Is it a stupid idea to propose to add it to the apache flex? Maybe we
>>> could replace the FMS server side dependency with a blazeDS based server
>>> side (dont know at all if it makes sense)
>>> and thus combining LCCS client side AS3 components (open source by Adobe,
>>> dont think theres third party license issue for that part) with blazeDS
>>> server side, we could get powerfull real time features all opensourced in
>>> Apache. and no matter what happens to FMS in the future.
>>> Maybe im dreaming a bit, but what you thing of it?
>>>
>>> for example will blazeDS be donated to apache as a separated project or
>>> will it be included in Apache flex?
>>> because smaller project like this may not get a big enough community to
>>> be
>>> a full standalone apache project, but if its included in flex powerfull
>>> community it will help.
>>>
>>> @Giorgo
>>> sounds interresting but:
>>> What is your already complete solution?
>>> Where can we find infos about it?
>>> What server side technology is it based on? FMS?
>>>
>>> @Jitendra Jain
>>> Can you please provide the quote and source of such announcement?
>>> On my side i read that they will shut the service down december 31st,
>>> even
>>> for existing clients.
>>> And the third party license issues are expressed only as an issue about
>>> the option to open source LCCS, not as a reason to stop LCCS service.
>>>
>>> @gabriel
>>> Yes i already checked it. But tanks.
>>> I already sent an email to Jeff Stanier and am waiting for answer.
>>> The quote you provide is great but its not reassuring at all.
>>> Thing is they announce they will shutt all down with a fixed date, and
>>> then they try to find a smooth transition solution (which will take time
>>> to
>>> set up).
>>> A real professionnal timeline would be more to first search for a smooth
>>> transition, then announce the shut down date with the proper path to
>>> continue business for existing clients.
>>> After such a quote what should be my next move? Should i wait Adobe and
>>> Jeff to find a smooth solution but without knowing when this solution
>>> will
>>> be available, and even not knowing if it will never be available?
>>> During that wait the clock is ticking and theres only 9 month to set up a
>>> solution.
>>> Or should i start to take a lot of unpaid time to search and test any
>>> other alternative, to finally see Adobe coming with a convenient smooth
>>> solution 3 month later?
>>>
>>> @jain saurabh
>>> Red5 or wowza or other are more low level solutions, and before getting a
>>> perfectly working solution to replace high level components of LCCS it
>>> will
>>> take a lot of work only to get things work as before.
>>>
>>> Thanks All for you replies
>>>
>>> Le 30/03/2012 14:55, Jitendra Jain a écrit :
>>>
>>> Adobe has already said that it is going to support already existing
>>>
>>>> clients
>>>> even after discontinuing. Moreover this decision, which they have taken
>>>> is
>>>> because of third party license issues. It sounds more valid to me.
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, Mar 30, 2012 at 6:06 PM, Gabriel De Repentigny<
>>>> gabriel.derepentigny@**bisonli**ne.com <http://bisonline.com><
>>>> gabriel.derepentigny@**bisonline.com<ga...@bisonline.com>
>>>> >>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> What shoudl i do now when im a freelance and my clients app will stop
>>>>
>>>>> running at the end of the year, and have no clear alternative?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If you haven't seen it already, you may want to check the LCCS forum
>>>>> at
>>>>> Adobe. There are several threads where people are discussing LCCS
>>>>> alternatives and how to transition to them.
>>>>>
>>>>> Also, Jeff Stanier from Adobe has a thread on that topic here:
>>>>>
>>>>> http://forums.adobe.com/****message/4277140<http://forums.adobe.com/**message/4277140>
>>>>> <http://forums.**adobe.com/message/4277140<http://forums.adobe.com/message/4277140>
>>>>> >
>>>>>
>>>>> He even gives out his email address in case you want to contact him
>>>>> directly and discuss your concerns (though I've no idea if that'll do
>>>>> any
>>>>> good). Perhaps the most encouraging part of the thread is where he
>>>>> says:
>>>>>
>>>>> "I hear you and Adobe hears you and we are taking a look at some other
>>>>> possible options to ease your transition from LCCS. This research will
>>>>> take
>>>>> some time but we will work as quickly as possible."
>>>>>
>>>>> For your sake, hopefully that means they'll find a way to either
>>>>> transfer
>>>>> most of the LCCS technology to someone else to run it or else donate it
>>>>> to
>>>>> the community.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>
Re: LCCS discontinued - infamous decision for Adobe clients
Posted by sébastien Paturel <se...@gmail.com>.
Nicholas,
"A few people have popped up talking about ways around that that usually
involve external Java libraries."
Would you have more precise infos to provide on that please? im
interesting to know more.
Jeff message was more open minded regarding open source then that.
it says "To get the discussion started, here's some things I've looked
at: Open Source. We have looked at this as an option and it's simply
not viable for a number of reasons. There are dependancies on third
party and Adobe code that are extremely difficult to separate out.
Some of this code runs other services at Adobe that will continue to
operate."
I read the following in another old thread: "and in any case the
application has large ties with our controlling application server, that
in turn has some ties with other Adobe services so it would need a lot
of cleanup to make it work standalone anyway".
So i see no reason why they would not accept to donate the AS3 client
lib code to Apache.
the issue is for server side code, but if theres only this part to
rewrite its quite better than doing the whole from scratch.
For FMS, wowza, Red5, i know it can be done but at what price in term of
coding efforts?
LCCS was great also because it was a high level component lib.
Thanks
Le 30/03/2012 17:03, Nicholas Kwiatkowski a écrit :
> Sebastien,
>
> Adobe has stated that they have no intentions in donating anything to do
> with LCCS, and they are making no plans or efforts to open-source anything
> to do with LCCS. They feel that it was a hosted ("rented") service, and
> they have no obligation to do it. A few of us have already asked the
> questions to Adobe, and they have repeated the same line.
>
> There are workable solutions that you can build with other products -- FMS,
> Wowza, Red5 -- for just about everything except for the screen sharing. A
> few people have popped up talking about ways around that that usually
> involve external Java libraries.
>
> Aside from writing your own client code -- installing a Red5 server in AWS
> and having it serve your content there is actually cheaper than LCCS for
> most cases.
>
> -Nick
>
>
> On Fri, Mar 30, 2012 at 9:46 AM, sébastien Paturel
> <se...@gmail.com>wrote:
>
>> @All
>> If Adobe is able to open source (at least a part of) LCCS lib like for
>> example the client side AS3 components and the FMS server side code
>> Is it a stupid idea to propose to add it to the apache flex? Maybe we
>> could replace the FMS server side dependency with a blazeDS based server
>> side (dont know at all if it makes sense)
>> and thus combining LCCS client side AS3 components (open source by Adobe,
>> dont think theres third party license issue for that part) with blazeDS
>> server side, we could get powerfull real time features all opensourced in
>> Apache. and no matter what happens to FMS in the future.
>> Maybe im dreaming a bit, but what you thing of it?
>>
>> for example will blazeDS be donated to apache as a separated project or
>> will it be included in Apache flex?
>> because smaller project like this may not get a big enough community to be
>> a full standalone apache project, but if its included in flex powerfull
>> community it will help.
>>
>> @Giorgo
>> sounds interresting but:
>> What is your already complete solution?
>> Where can we find infos about it?
>> What server side technology is it based on? FMS?
>>
>> @Jitendra Jain
>> Can you please provide the quote and source of such announcement?
>> On my side i read that they will shut the service down december 31st, even
>> for existing clients.
>> And the third party license issues are expressed only as an issue about
>> the option to open source LCCS, not as a reason to stop LCCS service.
>>
>> @gabriel
>> Yes i already checked it. But tanks.
>> I already sent an email to Jeff Stanier and am waiting for answer.
>> The quote you provide is great but its not reassuring at all.
>> Thing is they announce they will shutt all down with a fixed date, and
>> then they try to find a smooth transition solution (which will take time to
>> set up).
>> A real professionnal timeline would be more to first search for a smooth
>> transition, then announce the shut down date with the proper path to
>> continue business for existing clients.
>> After such a quote what should be my next move? Should i wait Adobe and
>> Jeff to find a smooth solution but without knowing when this solution will
>> be available, and even not knowing if it will never be available?
>> During that wait the clock is ticking and theres only 9 month to set up a
>> solution.
>> Or should i start to take a lot of unpaid time to search and test any
>> other alternative, to finally see Adobe coming with a convenient smooth
>> solution 3 month later?
>>
>> @jain saurabh
>> Red5 or wowza or other are more low level solutions, and before getting a
>> perfectly working solution to replace high level components of LCCS it will
>> take a lot of work only to get things work as before.
>>
>> Thanks All for you replies
>>
>> Le 30/03/2012 14:55, Jitendra Jain a écrit :
>>
>> Adobe has already said that it is going to support already existing
>>> clients
>>> even after discontinuing. Moreover this decision, which they have taken is
>>> because of third party license issues. It sounds more valid to me.
>>>
>>> On Fri, Mar 30, 2012 at 6:06 PM, Gabriel De Repentigny<
>>> gabriel.derepentigny@**bisonline.com<ga...@bisonline.com>>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> What shoudl i do now when im a freelance and my clients app will stop
>>>>> running at the end of the year, and have no clear alternative?
>>>>>
>>>> If you haven't seen it already, you may want to check the LCCS forum at
>>>> Adobe. There are several threads where people are discussing LCCS
>>>> alternatives and how to transition to them.
>>>>
>>>> Also, Jeff Stanier from Adobe has a thread on that topic here:
>>>>
>>>> http://forums.adobe.com/**message/4277140<http://forums.adobe.com/message/4277140>
>>>>
>>>> He even gives out his email address in case you want to contact him
>>>> directly and discuss your concerns (though I've no idea if that'll do any
>>>> good). Perhaps the most encouraging part of the thread is where he says:
>>>>
>>>> "I hear you and Adobe hears you and we are taking a look at some other
>>>> possible options to ease your transition from LCCS. This research will
>>>> take
>>>> some time but we will work as quickly as possible."
>>>>
>>>> For your sake, hopefully that means they'll find a way to either transfer
>>>> most of the LCCS technology to someone else to run it or else donate it
>>>> to
>>>> the community.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
Re: LCCS discontinued - infamous decision for Adobe clients
Posted by Nicholas Kwiatkowski <ni...@spoon.as>.
Sebastien,
Adobe has stated that they have no intentions in donating anything to do
with LCCS, and they are making no plans or efforts to open-source anything
to do with LCCS. They feel that it was a hosted ("rented") service, and
they have no obligation to do it. A few of us have already asked the
questions to Adobe, and they have repeated the same line.
There are workable solutions that you can build with other products -- FMS,
Wowza, Red5 -- for just about everything except for the screen sharing. A
few people have popped up talking about ways around that that usually
involve external Java libraries.
Aside from writing your own client code -- installing a Red5 server in AWS
and having it serve your content there is actually cheaper than LCCS for
most cases.
-Nick
On Fri, Mar 30, 2012 at 9:46 AM, sébastien Paturel
<se...@gmail.com>wrote:
> @All
> If Adobe is able to open source (at least a part of) LCCS lib like for
> example the client side AS3 components and the FMS server side code
> Is it a stupid idea to propose to add it to the apache flex? Maybe we
> could replace the FMS server side dependency with a blazeDS based server
> side (dont know at all if it makes sense)
> and thus combining LCCS client side AS3 components (open source by Adobe,
> dont think theres third party license issue for that part) with blazeDS
> server side, we could get powerfull real time features all opensourced in
> Apache. and no matter what happens to FMS in the future.
> Maybe im dreaming a bit, but what you thing of it?
>
> for example will blazeDS be donated to apache as a separated project or
> will it be included in Apache flex?
> because smaller project like this may not get a big enough community to be
> a full standalone apache project, but if its included in flex powerfull
> community it will help.
>
> @Giorgo
> sounds interresting but:
> What is your already complete solution?
> Where can we find infos about it?
> What server side technology is it based on? FMS?
>
> @Jitendra Jain
> Can you please provide the quote and source of such announcement?
> On my side i read that they will shut the service down december 31st, even
> for existing clients.
> And the third party license issues are expressed only as an issue about
> the option to open source LCCS, not as a reason to stop LCCS service.
>
> @gabriel
> Yes i already checked it. But tanks.
> I already sent an email to Jeff Stanier and am waiting for answer.
> The quote you provide is great but its not reassuring at all.
> Thing is they announce they will shutt all down with a fixed date, and
> then they try to find a smooth transition solution (which will take time to
> set up).
> A real professionnal timeline would be more to first search for a smooth
> transition, then announce the shut down date with the proper path to
> continue business for existing clients.
> After such a quote what should be my next move? Should i wait Adobe and
> Jeff to find a smooth solution but without knowing when this solution will
> be available, and even not knowing if it will never be available?
> During that wait the clock is ticking and theres only 9 month to set up a
> solution.
> Or should i start to take a lot of unpaid time to search and test any
> other alternative, to finally see Adobe coming with a convenient smooth
> solution 3 month later?
>
> @jain saurabh
> Red5 or wowza or other are more low level solutions, and before getting a
> perfectly working solution to replace high level components of LCCS it will
> take a lot of work only to get things work as before.
>
> Thanks All for you replies
>
> Le 30/03/2012 14:55, Jitendra Jain a écrit :
>
> Adobe has already said that it is going to support already existing
>> clients
>> even after discontinuing. Moreover this decision, which they have taken is
>> because of third party license issues. It sounds more valid to me.
>>
>> On Fri, Mar 30, 2012 at 6:06 PM, Gabriel De Repentigny<
>> gabriel.derepentigny@**bisonline.com <ga...@bisonline.com>>
>> wrote:
>>
>> What shoudl i do now when im a freelance and my clients app will stop
>>>> running at the end of the year, and have no clear alternative?
>>>>
>>> If you haven't seen it already, you may want to check the LCCS forum at
>>> Adobe. There are several threads where people are discussing LCCS
>>> alternatives and how to transition to them.
>>>
>>> Also, Jeff Stanier from Adobe has a thread on that topic here:
>>>
>>> http://forums.adobe.com/**message/4277140<http://forums.adobe.com/message/4277140>
>>>
>>> He even gives out his email address in case you want to contact him
>>> directly and discuss your concerns (though I've no idea if that'll do any
>>> good). Perhaps the most encouraging part of the thread is where he says:
>>>
>>> "I hear you and Adobe hears you and we are taking a look at some other
>>> possible options to ease your transition from LCCS. This research will
>>> take
>>> some time but we will work as quickly as possible."
>>>
>>> For your sake, hopefully that means they'll find a way to either transfer
>>> most of the LCCS technology to someone else to run it or else donate it
>>> to
>>> the community.
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
Re: LCCS discontinued - infamous decision for Adobe clients
Posted by sébastien Paturel <se...@gmail.com>.
@All
If Adobe is able to open source (at least a part of) LCCS lib like for
example the client side AS3 components and the FMS server side code
Is it a stupid idea to propose to add it to the apache flex? Maybe we
could replace the FMS server side dependency with a blazeDS based server
side (dont know at all if it makes sense)
and thus combining LCCS client side AS3 components (open source by
Adobe, dont think theres third party license issue for that part) with
blazeDS server side, we could get powerfull real time features all
opensourced in Apache. and no matter what happens to FMS in the future.
Maybe im dreaming a bit, but what you thing of it?
for example will blazeDS be donated to apache as a separated project or
will it be included in Apache flex?
because smaller project like this may not get a big enough community to
be a full standalone apache project, but if its included in flex
powerfull community it will help.
@Giorgo
sounds interresting but:
What is your already complete solution?
Where can we find infos about it?
What server side technology is it based on? FMS?
@Jitendra Jain
Can you please provide the quote and source of such announcement?
On my side i read that they will shut the service down december 31st,
even for existing clients.
And the third party license issues are expressed only as an issue about
the option to open source LCCS, not as a reason to stop LCCS service.
@gabriel
Yes i already checked it. But tanks.
I already sent an email to Jeff Stanier and am waiting for answer.
The quote you provide is great but its not reassuring at all.
Thing is they announce they will shutt all down with a fixed date, and
then they try to find a smooth transition solution (which will take time
to set up).
A real professionnal timeline would be more to first search for a smooth
transition, then announce the shut down date with the proper path to
continue business for existing clients.
After such a quote what should be my next move? Should i wait Adobe and
Jeff to find a smooth solution but without knowing when this solution
will be available, and even not knowing if it will never be available?
During that wait the clock is ticking and theres only 9 month to set up
a solution.
Or should i start to take a lot of unpaid time to search and test any
other alternative, to finally see Adobe coming with a convenient smooth
solution 3 month later?
@jain saurabh
Red5 or wowza or other are more low level solutions, and before getting
a perfectly working solution to replace high level components of LCCS it
will take a lot of work only to get things work as before.
Thanks All for you replies
Le 30/03/2012 14:55, Jitendra Jain a écrit :
> Adobe has already said that it is going to support already existing clients
> even after discontinuing. Moreover this decision, which they have taken is
> because of third party license issues. It sounds more valid to me.
>
> On Fri, Mar 30, 2012 at 6:06 PM, Gabriel De Repentigny<
> gabriel.derepentigny@bisonline.com> wrote:
>
>>> What shoudl i do now when im a freelance and my clients app will stop
>>> running at the end of the year, and have no clear alternative?
>> If you haven't seen it already, you may want to check the LCCS forum at
>> Adobe. There are several threads where people are discussing LCCS
>> alternatives and how to transition to them.
>>
>> Also, Jeff Stanier from Adobe has a thread on that topic here:
>>
>> http://forums.adobe.com/message/4277140
>>
>> He even gives out his email address in case you want to contact him
>> directly and discuss your concerns (though I've no idea if that'll do any
>> good). Perhaps the most encouraging part of the thread is where he says:
>>
>> "I hear you and Adobe hears you and we are taking a look at some other
>> possible options to ease your transition from LCCS. This research will take
>> some time but we will work as quickly as possible."
>>
>> For your sake, hopefully that means they'll find a way to either transfer
>> most of the LCCS technology to someone else to run it or else donate it to
>> the community.
>>
>
>
Re: LCCS discontinued - infamous decision for Adobe clients
Posted by Nicholas Kwiatkowski <ni...@spoon.as>.
Adobe has stated their support for LCCS ends at the end of the year. Their
support contracts for FLEX customers does not involve LCCS. LCCS was
a separate product.
-Nick
On Fri, Mar 30, 2012 at 8:55 AM, Jitendra Jain <
warriorofheavenster@gmail.com> wrote:
> Adobe has already said that it is going to support already existing clients
> even after discontinuing. Moreover this decision, which they have taken is
> because of third party license issues. It sounds more valid to me.
>
> On Fri, Mar 30, 2012 at 6:06 PM, Gabriel De Repentigny <
> gabriel.derepentigny@bisonline.com> wrote:
>
> > > What shoudl i do now when im a freelance and my clients app will stop
> > > running at the end of the year, and have no clear alternative?
> >
> > If you haven't seen it already, you may want to check the LCCS forum at
> > Adobe. There are several threads where people are discussing LCCS
> > alternatives and how to transition to them.
> >
> > Also, Jeff Stanier from Adobe has a thread on that topic here:
> >
> > http://forums.adobe.com/message/4277140
> >
> > He even gives out his email address in case you want to contact him
> > directly and discuss your concerns (though I've no idea if that'll do any
> > good). Perhaps the most encouraging part of the thread is where he says:
> >
> > "I hear you and Adobe hears you and we are taking a look at some other
> > possible options to ease your transition from LCCS. This research will
> take
> > some time but we will work as quickly as possible."
> >
> > For your sake, hopefully that means they'll find a way to either transfer
> > most of the LCCS technology to someone else to run it or else donate it
> to
> > the community.
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Thanks and Regards,
> JJain,
>
> If you have knowledge, let others light their candles in it --Margaret
> Fuller:
>
Re: LCCS discontinued - infamous decision for Adobe clients
Posted by Jitendra Jain <wa...@gmail.com>.
Adobe has already said that it is going to support already existing clients
even after discontinuing. Moreover this decision, which they have taken is
because of third party license issues. It sounds more valid to me.
On Fri, Mar 30, 2012 at 6:06 PM, Gabriel De Repentigny <
gabriel.derepentigny@bisonline.com> wrote:
> > What shoudl i do now when im a freelance and my clients app will stop
> > running at the end of the year, and have no clear alternative?
>
> If you haven't seen it already, you may want to check the LCCS forum at
> Adobe. There are several threads where people are discussing LCCS
> alternatives and how to transition to them.
>
> Also, Jeff Stanier from Adobe has a thread on that topic here:
>
> http://forums.adobe.com/message/4277140
>
> He even gives out his email address in case you want to contact him
> directly and discuss your concerns (though I've no idea if that'll do any
> good). Perhaps the most encouraging part of the thread is where he says:
>
> "I hear you and Adobe hears you and we are taking a look at some other
> possible options to ease your transition from LCCS. This research will take
> some time but we will work as quickly as possible."
>
> For your sake, hopefully that means they'll find a way to either transfer
> most of the LCCS technology to someone else to run it or else donate it to
> the community.
>
--
Thanks and Regards,
JJain,
If you have knowledge, let others light their candles in it --Margaret
Fuller:
Re: LCCS discontinued - infamous decision for Adobe clients
Posted by Gabriel De Repentigny <ga...@bisonline.com>.
> What shoudl i do now when im a freelance and my clients app will stop
> running at the end of the year, and have no clear alternative?
If you haven't seen it already, you may want to check the LCCS forum at Adobe. There are several threads where people are discussing LCCS alternatives and how to transition to them.
Also, Jeff Stanier from Adobe has a thread on that topic here:
http://forums.adobe.com/message/4277140
He even gives out his email address in case you want to contact him directly and discuss your concerns (though I've no idea if that'll do any good). Perhaps the most encouraging part of the thread is where he says:
"I hear you and Adobe hears you and we are taking a look at some other possible options to ease your transition from LCCS. This research will take some time but we will work as quickly as possible."
For your sake, hopefully that means they'll find a way to either transfer most of the LCCS technology to someone else to run it or else donate it to the community.
Re: LCCS discontinued - infamous decision for Adobe clients
Posted by saurabh jain <ja...@gmail.com>.
Even Red5 is a good option to consider while using streaming videos/rtmp
connections.
-Saurabh
On Fri, Mar 30, 2012 at 5:58 PM, filippo dipisa <fi...@dipisa.net> wrote:
> My perception of Adobe is exaclty the same as yours.
> I suggest you to move out from all their products as soon as you can.
> They never had something working properly and they keep killing
> technologies as they need.
> Even the new FlashBuilder 4.6 is complaining is you created project using
> the 4.5 version....
> For streaming video I suggest Wowza.
> For messaging have a look to the goolebuffer.
> For Flex help the apache comunity to keep it alive :)
>
>
> On 30 March 2012 12:53, sébastien Paturel <se...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Hi.
> > Did some of you saw the Adobe announcement of discontinuing LCCS service?
> > it's SaS with built in complex real time features (video conferences,
> real
> > time messaging and events, screensharing, based on a clustered
> architecture
> > giving a convenient pay per use offering without you needing to take the
> > server side in charge) and they will simply shut it down at the end of
> the
> > year, giving only 9 month to find an alternative which does not exists
> yet,
> > and whithout giving any starting point solution. And they already
> > disallowed the creation of new accounts after the decision, making any
> new
> > project based on this solution born dead.
> > Its not only a decision to stop further developement (it was not a beta
> > version by the way).
> > Its not only that we have to use previous build to continue business (as
> > it is the case for FLash builder Design view or flash catalyst), its that
> > the product will simply stop functionning letting businesses running on
> it
> > simply stop!
> >
> > What shoudl i do now when im a freelance and my clients app will stop
> > running at the end of the year, and have no clear alternative?
> >
> > After all those bad communication from Adobe, now its a very bad decision
> > leaving customers with only rope to hang out. (please Hobby one Adobe you
> > are my only rope)
> >
> > Is there any other flex dev in the list in the same situation than me?
> > Adobe's people from the list, how do you comment such a move?
> > Will they stop FMS tomorrow?
> >
> > Bad communication si one thing, but shutting a service without
> > alternative, making clients facing business death, is another.
> > Even after all previous bad events, i still gave enough trust into Adobe,
> > now after this LCCS case, its totally gone for me!
> > How can we trust Adobe in any declaration now?
> > How could i choose any Adobe product after such a "we don't care of our
> > clients even if our decision kill them" move?
> > How is it possible that Adobe did not learn a bit after the catastrophy
> of
> > last episodes? So whats next??
> > How can we trust Adobe when they say that they believe in Flash player,
> > Air, and Flex for the 5 or 10 next years to come at least, when they kill
> > their great Flash based technology today?
> >
> > Its important for Apache flex because:
> > - LCCS was a great third party lib for flex to very easily make real time
> > functionnalities with a very clear pricing system. I think that real time
> > was a big point for flex against HTML5 today.
> > - If Adobe is capable of such a bad decision putting clients in such a
> > catastrophic situation, how can we trust Adobe for flex's runtime future,
> > especially Air which need further updates, support new future platforms
> etc?
> > - It makes the HTML5 cross compilation a priority more than ever. (by the
> > way, any news about Adobe letting community to have a look at the code of
> > Falcon and FalconJS before donating it?)
> > - It adds (AGAIN!) a very bad trust image for freelances and agencies
> > clients against Adobe's technology and flex, making even more difficult
> to
> > support the choice against HTML5.
> > If a client know that their business live is at stake by choosing Adobe's
> > solution (or based on it) the choice will be quite easy!
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> >
>
Re: LCCS discontinued - infamous decision for Adobe clients
Posted by Giorgio Natili <g....@gnstudio.com>.
Hi All,
We have to build something from this crazy announcements.
Actually I have a complete web conferencing solution (including screen
sharing) that is already open source, someone is interested to help me to
create a new Apache Flex based solution?
The idea obviously is to keep it open source...
Giorgio
Re: LCCS discontinued - infamous decision for Adobe clients
Posted by filippo dipisa <fi...@dipisa.net>.
My perception of Adobe is exaclty the same as yours.
I suggest you to move out from all their products as soon as you can.
They never had something working properly and they keep killing
technologies as they need.
Even the new FlashBuilder 4.6 is complaining is you created project using
the 4.5 version....
For streaming video I suggest Wowza.
For messaging have a look to the goolebuffer.
For Flex help the apache comunity to keep it alive :)
On 30 March 2012 12:53, sébastien Paturel <se...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi.
> Did some of you saw the Adobe announcement of discontinuing LCCS service?
> it's SaS with built in complex real time features (video conferences, real
> time messaging and events, screensharing, based on a clustered architecture
> giving a convenient pay per use offering without you needing to take the
> server side in charge) and they will simply shut it down at the end of the
> year, giving only 9 month to find an alternative which does not exists yet,
> and whithout giving any starting point solution. And they already
> disallowed the creation of new accounts after the decision, making any new
> project based on this solution born dead.
> Its not only a decision to stop further developement (it was not a beta
> version by the way).
> Its not only that we have to use previous build to continue business (as
> it is the case for FLash builder Design view or flash catalyst), its that
> the product will simply stop functionning letting businesses running on it
> simply stop!
>
> What shoudl i do now when im a freelance and my clients app will stop
> running at the end of the year, and have no clear alternative?
>
> After all those bad communication from Adobe, now its a very bad decision
> leaving customers with only rope to hang out. (please Hobby one Adobe you
> are my only rope)
>
> Is there any other flex dev in the list in the same situation than me?
> Adobe's people from the list, how do you comment such a move?
> Will they stop FMS tomorrow?
>
> Bad communication si one thing, but shutting a service without
> alternative, making clients facing business death, is another.
> Even after all previous bad events, i still gave enough trust into Adobe,
> now after this LCCS case, its totally gone for me!
> How can we trust Adobe in any declaration now?
> How could i choose any Adobe product after such a "we don't care of our
> clients even if our decision kill them" move?
> How is it possible that Adobe did not learn a bit after the catastrophy of
> last episodes? So whats next??
> How can we trust Adobe when they say that they believe in Flash player,
> Air, and Flex for the 5 or 10 next years to come at least, when they kill
> their great Flash based technology today?
>
> Its important for Apache flex because:
> - LCCS was a great third party lib for flex to very easily make real time
> functionnalities with a very clear pricing system. I think that real time
> was a big point for flex against HTML5 today.
> - If Adobe is capable of such a bad decision putting clients in such a
> catastrophic situation, how can we trust Adobe for flex's runtime future,
> especially Air which need further updates, support new future platforms etc?
> - It makes the HTML5 cross compilation a priority more than ever. (by the
> way, any news about Adobe letting community to have a look at the code of
> Falcon and FalconJS before donating it?)
> - It adds (AGAIN!) a very bad trust image for freelances and agencies
> clients against Adobe's technology and flex, making even more difficult to
> support the choice against HTML5.
> If a client know that their business live is at stake by choosing Adobe's
> solution (or based on it) the choice will be quite easy!
>
> Thanks
>
>