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Posted to dev@tamaya.apache.org by Werner Keil <we...@gmail.com> on 2014/12/04 15:45:54 UTC

Commons Config 2

Hi,

Probably more important than config subsystems in JSR 107 or Log4J 2
(though it altogether got a really good rewrite making any effort for a
"Logging JSR" by some people almost pointless;-) seems a massive redesign
and recent activity of Apache Commons Logging 2:
http://commons.apache.org/proper/commons-configuration/index.html

Anybody had a look at that?

Apache certainly has a very multicultural ecosystem, look at Struts vs.
OpenFaces vs. Wicket vs. Tapestry and who knows how many (Web MVC) projects
all exist, so why not have at least 2 or 3 for configuration.

Something noteworthy is, that Commons Configuration 2 refrains from any
static factory.
Even a class sounding like it was static such as Configurations (in a new
"fluent" package) works like this:
 Configurations configurations = new Configurations();
PropertiesConfiguration config = configurations.properties(new File(
         "config.properties"));

Werner

Re: Commons Config 2

Posted by Anatole Tresch <at...@gmail.com>.
Perhaps part of this discussion will solve itself. If we turn the
PropertyProviders singleton into a builder, we will only have static
constructors, but still details hidden. Looks like a double win...

2014-12-04 17:36 GMT+01:00 Werner Keil <we...@gmail.com>:

> Ok, then let me reply here, too (though there was a "factory" thread
> earlier;-)
>
> Dependency Injection and CDI certainly benefit from non-static methods
> quite a bit.
>
> Werner
>
> On Thu, Dec 4, 2014 at 5:32 PM, Oliver B. Fischer <
> o.b.fischer@swe-blog.net>
> wrote:
>
> > I don't like the abuse of static methods. In one of the earlier
> discussion
> > I proposed
> >
> >     new Configuration()
> >
> > Static methods are great for small helper methods. But they become
> > problematic if you would like to test code and to substitute their
> > funtionality with mocks.
> >
> > Best,
> >
> > Oliver
> >
> > Am 04.12.14 15:45, schrieb Werner Keil:
> >
> >  Hi,
> >>
> >> Probably more important than config subsystems in JSR 107 or Log4J 2
> >> (though it altogether got a really good rewrite making any effort for a
> >> "Logging JSR" by some people almost pointless;-) seems a massive
> redesign
> >> and recent activity of Apache Commons Logging 2:
> >> http://commons.apache.org/proper/commons-configuration/index.html
> >>
> >> Anybody had a look at that?
> >>
> >> Apache certainly has a very multicultural ecosystem, look at Struts vs.
> >> OpenFaces vs. Wicket vs. Tapestry and who knows how many (Web MVC)
> >> projects
> >> all exist, so why not have at least 2 or 3 for configuration.
> >>
> >> Something noteworthy is, that Commons Configuration 2 refrains from any
> >> static factory.
> >> Even a class sounding like it was static such as Configurations (in a
> new
> >> "fluent" package) works like this:
> >>   Configurations configurations = new Configurations();
> >> PropertiesConfiguration config = configurations.properties(new File(
> >>           "config.properties"));
> >>
> >> Werner
> >>
> >>
> > --
> > N Oliver B. Fischer
> > A Schönhauser Allee 64, 10437 Berlin, Deutschland/Germany
> > P +49 30 44793251
> > M +49 178 7903538
> > E o.b.fischer@swe-blog.net
> > S oliver.b.fischer
> > J oliver.b.fischer@jabber.org
> > X http://xing.to/obf
> >
> >
>



-- 
*Anatole Tresch*
Java Engineer & Architect, JSR Spec Lead
Glärnischweg 10
CH - 8620 Wetzikon

*Switzerland, Europe Zurich, GMT+1*
*Twitter:  @atsticks*
*Blogs: **http://javaremarkables.blogspot.ch/
<http://javaremarkables.blogspot.ch/>*

*Google: atsticksMobile  +41-76 344 62 79*

Re: Commons Config 2

Posted by Werner Keil <we...@gmail.com>.
Ok, then let me reply here, too (though there was a "factory" thread
earlier;-)

Dependency Injection and CDI certainly benefit from non-static methods
quite a bit.

Werner

On Thu, Dec 4, 2014 at 5:32 PM, Oliver B. Fischer <o....@swe-blog.net>
wrote:

> I don't like the abuse of static methods. In one of the earlier discussion
> I proposed
>
>     new Configuration()
>
> Static methods are great for small helper methods. But they become
> problematic if you would like to test code and to substitute their
> funtionality with mocks.
>
> Best,
>
> Oliver
>
> Am 04.12.14 15:45, schrieb Werner Keil:
>
>  Hi,
>>
>> Probably more important than config subsystems in JSR 107 or Log4J 2
>> (though it altogether got a really good rewrite making any effort for a
>> "Logging JSR" by some people almost pointless;-) seems a massive redesign
>> and recent activity of Apache Commons Logging 2:
>> http://commons.apache.org/proper/commons-configuration/index.html
>>
>> Anybody had a look at that?
>>
>> Apache certainly has a very multicultural ecosystem, look at Struts vs.
>> OpenFaces vs. Wicket vs. Tapestry and who knows how many (Web MVC)
>> projects
>> all exist, so why not have at least 2 or 3 for configuration.
>>
>> Something noteworthy is, that Commons Configuration 2 refrains from any
>> static factory.
>> Even a class sounding like it was static such as Configurations (in a new
>> "fluent" package) works like this:
>>   Configurations configurations = new Configurations();
>> PropertiesConfiguration config = configurations.properties(new File(
>>           "config.properties"));
>>
>> Werner
>>
>>
> --
> N Oliver B. Fischer
> A Schönhauser Allee 64, 10437 Berlin, Deutschland/Germany
> P +49 30 44793251
> M +49 178 7903538
> E o.b.fischer@swe-blog.net
> S oliver.b.fischer
> J oliver.b.fischer@jabber.org
> X http://xing.to/obf
>
>

Re: Commons Config 2

Posted by Anatole Tresch <at...@gmail.com>.
Hi Oliver

this is no abuse. It is simply the way to design things when you are on SE
level. Testability is only then an issue, if the implementation is
hardcoded, which is not the case, if you have a good SPI behind it! And
last comparing static accessors with unnecessary dependencies the second
one are worse!

Cheers,
Anatole


2014-12-04 17:32 GMT+01:00 Oliver B. Fischer <o....@swe-blog.net>:

> I don't like the abuse of static methods. In one of the earlier discussion
> I proposed
>
>     new Configuration()
>
> Static methods are great for small helper methods. But they become
> problematic if you would like to test code and to substitute their
> funtionality with mocks.
>
> Best,
>
> Oliver
>
> Am 04.12.14 15:45, schrieb Werner Keil:
>
>  Hi,
>>
>> Probably more important than config subsystems in JSR 107 or Log4J 2
>> (though it altogether got a really good rewrite making any effort for a
>> "Logging JSR" by some people almost pointless;-) seems a massive redesign
>> and recent activity of Apache Commons Logging 2:
>> http://commons.apache.org/proper/commons-configuration/index.html
>>
>> Anybody had a look at that?
>>
>> Apache certainly has a very multicultural ecosystem, look at Struts vs.
>> OpenFaces vs. Wicket vs. Tapestry and who knows how many (Web MVC)
>> projects
>> all exist, so why not have at least 2 or 3 for configuration.
>>
>> Something noteworthy is, that Commons Configuration 2 refrains from any
>> static factory.
>> Even a class sounding like it was static such as Configurations (in a new
>> "fluent" package) works like this:
>>   Configurations configurations = new Configurations();
>> PropertiesConfiguration config = configurations.properties(new File(
>>           "config.properties"));
>>
>> Werner
>>
>>
> --
> N Oliver B. Fischer
> A Schönhauser Allee 64, 10437 Berlin, Deutschland/Germany
> P +49 30 44793251
> M +49 178 7903538
> E o.b.fischer@swe-blog.net
> S oliver.b.fischer
> J oliver.b.fischer@jabber.org
> X http://xing.to/obf
>
>


-- 
*Anatole Tresch*
Java Engineer & Architect, JSR Spec Lead
Glärnischweg 10
CH - 8620 Wetzikon

*Switzerland, Europe Zurich, GMT+1*
*Twitter:  @atsticks*
*Blogs: **http://javaremarkables.blogspot.ch/
<http://javaremarkables.blogspot.ch/>*

*Google: atsticksMobile  +41-76 344 62 79*

Re: Commons Config 2

Posted by "Oliver B. Fischer" <o....@swe-blog.net>.
I don't like the abuse of static methods. In one of the earlier 
discussion I proposed

     new Configuration()

Static methods are great for small helper methods. But they become 
problematic if you would like to test code and to substitute their 
funtionality with mocks.

Best,

Oliver

Am 04.12.14 15:45, schrieb Werner Keil:
> Hi,
>
> Probably more important than config subsystems in JSR 107 or Log4J 2
> (though it altogether got a really good rewrite making any effort for a
> "Logging JSR" by some people almost pointless;-) seems a massive redesign
> and recent activity of Apache Commons Logging 2:
> http://commons.apache.org/proper/commons-configuration/index.html
>
> Anybody had a look at that?
>
> Apache certainly has a very multicultural ecosystem, look at Struts vs.
> OpenFaces vs. Wicket vs. Tapestry and who knows how many (Web MVC) projects
> all exist, so why not have at least 2 or 3 for configuration.
>
> Something noteworthy is, that Commons Configuration 2 refrains from any
> static factory.
> Even a class sounding like it was static such as Configurations (in a new
> "fluent" package) works like this:
>   Configurations configurations = new Configurations();
> PropertiesConfiguration config = configurations.properties(new File(
>           "config.properties"));
>
> Werner
>

-- 
N Oliver B. Fischer
A Schönhauser Allee 64, 10437 Berlin, Deutschland/Germany
P +49 30 44793251
M +49 178 7903538
E o.b.fischer@swe-blog.net
S oliver.b.fischer
J oliver.b.fischer@jabber.org
X http://xing.to/obf

Re: Commons Config 2

Posted by Anatole Tresch <at...@gmail.com>.
Inline...

2014-12-04 16:09 GMT+01:00 Werner Keil <we...@gmail.com>:

> >About stage: we have enough stage outside tje config to use it without
> What do you mean here, the totally inadequate ProjectStage enum in JSF?;-)
>
> IMHO at least the notion of Environment should be present, otherwise
> multi-tenancy or "Cloud" support that Java EE keeps babbling about ever
> since at least EE 7 will remain the same joke and empty phrase in Tamaya as
> it does there (or in the PR of most large companies including Oracle;-D)
>
​+1 If you just try to boil down things down to the what already is present
in Apache commons et al, this project
is not needed actually.​..


> Werner Keil | JCP Executive Committee Member, JSR 363 Co Spec Lead |
> Eclipse UOMo Lead, Babel Language Champion | Apache Committer | Advisory
> Board Member, DWX '15
>
> Twitter @wernerkeil | @UnitAPI | @JSR354 | @AgoravaProj | @DeviceMap |
> #EclipseUOMo
> | #DevOps
> Skype werner.keil | Google+ gplus.to/wernerkeil
>
> On Thu, Dec 4, 2014 at 4:02 PM, Romain Manni-Bucau <rm...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > About stage: we have enough stage outside tje config to use it without
> > any issue or code to write with [configuration].
> > About Environment: not a strong requirement in enough cases to not be
> > present by default.
> >
> > We could surely use [configuration] in our impl pretty easily (in a
> > format/reader depending where we finish)
> >
> >
> > Romain Manni-Bucau
> > @rmannibucau
> > http://www.tomitribe.com
> > http://rmannibucau.wordpress.com
> > https://github.com/rmannibucau
> >
> >
> > 2014-12-04 15:52 GMT+01:00 Werner Keil <we...@gmail.com>:
> > > After a brief but slightly deeper look at Commons Config 2, it could be
> > > better separated into API vs. implementations (similar to say Log4J
> 2;-)
> > > and something notably absent is the concept of "Stage" or
> "Environment".
> > In
> > > theory the 2 projects could explore synergies making Tamaya the "Cloud
> > > Enabler" for some of the core concepts that look fairly neat in Commons
> > > Config 2 (I worked with V1 in a few projects, it was a bit complex but
> > > doable)
> > >
> > > Werner
> > >
> > > On Thu, Dec 4, 2014 at 3:45 PM, Werner Keil <we...@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > >> Hi,
> > >>
> > >> Probably more important than config subsystems in JSR 107 or Log4J 2
> > >> (though it altogether got a really good rewrite making any effort for
> a
> > >> "Logging JSR" by some people almost pointless;-) seems a massive
> > redesign
> > >> and recent activity of Apache Commons Logging 2:
> > >> http://commons.apache.org/proper/commons-configuration/index.html
> > >>
> > >> Anybody had a look at that?
> > >>
> > >> Apache certainly has a very multicultural ecosystem, look at Struts
> vs.
> > >> OpenFaces vs. Wicket vs. Tapestry and who knows how many (Web MVC)
> > projects
> > >> all exist, so why not have at least 2 or 3 for configuration.
> > >>
> > >> Something noteworthy is, that Commons Configuration 2 refrains from
> any
> > >> static factory.
> > >> Even a class sounding like it was static such as Configurations (in a
> > new
> > >> "fluent" package) works like this:
> > >>  Configurations configurations = new Configurations();
> > >> PropertiesConfiguration config = configurations.properties(new File(
> > >>          "config.properties"));
> > >>
> > >> Werner
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> >
>



-- 
*Anatole Tresch*
Java Engineer & Architect, JSR Spec Lead
Glärnischweg 10
CH - 8620 Wetzikon

*Switzerland, Europe Zurich, GMT+1*
*Twitter:  @atsticks*
*Blogs: **http://javaremarkables.blogspot.ch/
<http://javaremarkables.blogspot.ch/>*

*Google: atsticksMobile  +41-76 344 62 79*

Re: Commons Config 2

Posted by Werner Keil <we...@gmail.com>.
Some of this was probably best sketched in a Wiki, etc. I did not go into
such detail btw.
Just mention on a very broad range that Commons Config even V2 had little
multi-tenancy aspects which AFAIK we try to cover (whichever way;-)

Regards,
Werner

On Thu, Dec 4, 2014 at 5:34 PM, Gerhard Petracek <gerhard.petracek@gmail.com
> wrote:

> @werner:
> the reason for my initial call to get back to a step by step approach is
> the discussion of concepts like environment, stages,... in this thread.
> once we get to those topics, we can compare different approaches for sure.
>
> at deltaspike we had the same issue in the beginning.
> once we did reviews and discussions step by step, the quality as well as
> the quantity of comments increased.
>
> regards,
> gerhard
>
>
>
> 2014-12-04 17:04 GMT+01:00 Werner Keil <we...@gmail.com>:
>
> > And "rush", what rush?
> >
> > Unless of course you consider it a race with e.g. Commons Config, there
> is
> > not a strict timeline or quota I'm aware at Apache as e.g. JCP introduced
> > lately for new JSRs.
> >
> > Projects that have a slightly smaller team e.g. DeviceMap take a while,
> but
> > thanks to also my active contribution it just graduated. Others like
> > PhoneGap/Cordova, OpenOffice or DeltaSpike with a slightly larger number
> of
> > committers did so a bit earlier. So those who really contribute here will
> > determine the pace and when it's ready to leave the incubator.
> >
> > Werner
> >
> > On Thu, Dec 4, 2014 at 4:58 PM, Werner Keil <we...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >
> > > Where do you get that?
> > >
> > > There were suggestions to "prune" things, which e.g. Anatole also did
> not
> > > see useful.
> > > It's a good thing to know Commons Config (which was among the "related
> > > projects" from day one of this effort) is active again, whether we feel
> > > it's good to incorporate it or work separately, I guess we'll find out
> > down
> > > the path.
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > > Werner
> > >
> > > On Thu, Dec 4, 2014 at 4:53 PM, Gerhard Petracek <
> > > gerhard.petracek@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > >> @werner:
> > >> please don't get it wrong, but if you don't like something - just tell
> > it
> > >> - intimations don't help a lot.
> > >> afaik we aren't in a rush and therefore we can just benefit from
> > >> discussing
> > >> and reviewing topics step by step.
> > >>
> > >> regards,
> > >> gerhard
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> 2014-12-04 16:49 GMT+01:00 Werner Keil <we...@gmail.com>:
> > >>
> > >> > About Commons Config, I am not sure, if he's still involved, but
> given
> > >> Geir
> > >> > was also elected into the JCP EC I should be able to chat with him
> > >> about it
> > >> > during upcoming F2F meeting like the one in January. He was a
> > committer
> > >> to
> > >> > Commons Config 1, but no longer seems to contribute there now.
> > >> >
> > >> > Werner
> > >> >
> > >> > On Thu, Dec 4, 2014 at 4:43 PM, Anatole Tresch <at...@gmail.com>
> > >> wrote:
> > >> >
> > >> > > Hi all
> > >> > >
> > >> > > please just try to be polite to each other. Most important thing
> is:
> > >> edit
> > >> > > the subject before sending a new topic, so a new thread is opened,
> > and
> > >> > yes
> > >> > > ensure not more than 2-3 threads are running in parallel ;).
> > >> Currently it
> > >> > > is really a mess. Basically we discuss 2 things as of now, and I
> > >> suggest
> > >> > to
> > >> > > postpone other topics a bit, so we keep control...
> > >> > >
> > >> > > -Anatole
> > >> > >
> > >> > >
> > >> > > 2014-12-04 16:31 GMT+01:00 Werner Keil <we...@gmail.com>:
> > >> > >
> > >> > > > You may have noticed, the very important "annot" point was also
> > >> "bent"
> > >> > > > beyond recognition with other sometimes random topics. Maybe
> > >> somebody
> > >> > > > should simply have created a separate thread or replied
> > elsewhere;-)
> > >> > > >
> > >> > > >
> > >> > > >
> > >> > > >
> > >> > > >
> > >> > > > On Thu, Dec 4, 2014 at 4:29 PM, Werner Keil <
> > werner.keil@gmail.com>
> > >> > > wrote:
> > >> > > >
> > >> > > > > Well there are replies to good to know fact that Commons
> Config
> > is
> > >> > > "alive
> > >> > > > > and kicking" (based on the project page and recent activity)
> > that
> > >> > > should
> > >> > > > > not belong to this thread.
> > >> > > > >
> > >> > > > > @Romain, others please discuss things like stage, etc. it in
> > other
> > >> > > > > threads;-)
> > >> > > > >
> > >> > > > > Thanks,
> > >> > > > > Werner
> > >> > > > >
> > >> > > > > On Thu, Dec 4, 2014 at 4:24 PM, Gerhard Petracek <
> > >> > > > > gerhard.petracek@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >> > > > >
> > >> > > > >> @werner:
> > >> > > > >> we already have important and ongoing discussions in other
> > >> threads
> > >> > > > >> (starting step by step).
> > >> > > > >> imo it doesn't make sense to start new threads about "random"
> > >> topics
> > >> > > > which
> > >> > > > >> will be discussed later on (once they are due).
> > >> > > > >>
> > >> > > > >> regards,
> > >> > > > >> gerhard
> > >> > > > >>
> > >> > > > >>
> > >> > > > >>
> > >> > > > >> 2014-12-04 16:16 GMT+01:00 Romain Manni-Bucau <
> > >> > rmannibucau@gmail.com
> > >> > > >:
> > >> > > > >>
> > >> > > > >> > there are stages in jsf, deltaspike, spring and several
> other
> > >> > libs.
> > >> > > In
> > >> > > > >> > practise a system property is also ofnte used and enough
> for
> > >> the
> > >> > > > >> > config:
> > >> > > > >> >
> > >> > > > >> > Configuration.fromPaths("/foo/bar/" +
> > >> > > > >> > System.getProperty("myapp.stage", "prod") +
> > >> "-config.properties);
> > >> > > > >> >
> > >> > > > >> >
> > >> > > > >> > Environment would make sense only when we'll support
> > >> distribution
> > >> > > > >> > which is far to be the case so we can maybe drop it for
> now.
> > >> > > > >> >
> > >> > > > >> >
> > >> > > > >> >
> > >> > > > >> >
> > >> > > > >> > Romain Manni-Bucau
> > >> > > > >> > @rmannibucau
> > >> > > > >> > http://www.tomitribe.com
> > >> > > > >> > http://rmannibucau.wordpress.com
> > >> > > > >> > https://github.com/rmannibucau
> > >> > > > >> >
> > >> > > > >> >
> > >> > > > >> > 2014-12-04 16:11 GMT+01:00 Werner Keil <
> > werner.keil@gmail.com
> > >> >:
> > >> > > > >> > > One could merge *Stage *and *Environment*, see Multiconf,
> > but
> > >> > > > abusing
> > >> > > > >> > *Stage
> > >> > > > >> > > *to model *Environment *seems rather pointless.
> > >> > > > >> > >
> > >> > > > >> > > Werner
> > >> > > > >> > >
> > >> > > > >> > > On Thu, Dec 4, 2014 at 4:09 PM, Werner Keil <
> > >> > > werner.keil@gmail.com>
> > >> > > > >> > wrote:
> > >> > > > >> > >
> > >> > > > >> > >> >About stage: we have enough stage outside tje config to
> > >> use it
> > >> > > > >> without
> > >> > > > >> > >> What do you mean here, the totally inadequate
> ProjectStage
> > >> enum
> > >> > > in
> > >> > > > >> > JSF?;-)
> > >> > > > >> > >>
> > >> > > > >> > >> IMHO at least the notion of Environment should be
> present,
> > >> > > > otherwise
> > >> > > > >> > >> multi-tenancy or "Cloud" support that Java EE keeps
> > babbling
> > >> > > about
> > >> > > > >> ever
> > >> > > > >> > >> since at least EE 7 will remain the same joke and empty
> > >> phrase
> > >> > in
> > >> > > > >> > Tamaya as
> > >> > > > >> > >> it does there (or in the PR of most large companies
> > >> including
> > >> > > > >> Oracle;-D)
> > >> > > > >> > >>
> > >> > > > >> > >> Werner Keil | JCP Executive Committee Member, JSR 363 Co
> > >> Spec
> > >> > > Lead
> > >> > > > |
> > >> > > > >> > >> Eclipse UOMo Lead, Babel Language Champion | Apache
> > >> Committer |
> > >> > > > >> Advisory
> > >> > > > >> > >> Board Member, DWX '15
> > >> > > > >> > >>
> > >> > > > >> > >> Twitter @wernerkeil | @UnitAPI | @JSR354 | @AgoravaProj
> |
> > >> > > > @DeviceMap
> > >> > > > >> |
> > >> > > > >> > #EclipseUOMo
> > >> > > > >> > >> | #DevOps
> > >> > > > >> > >> Skype werner.keil | Google+ gplus.to/wernerkeil
> > >> > > > >> > >>
> > >> > > > >> > >> On Thu, Dec 4, 2014 at 4:02 PM, Romain Manni-Bucau <
> > >> > > > >> > rmannibucau@gmail.com>
> > >> > > > >> > >> wrote:
> > >> > > > >> > >>
> > >> > > > >> > >>> About stage: we have enough stage outside tje config to
> > >> use it
> > >> > > > >> without
> > >> > > > >> > >>> any issue or code to write with [configuration].
> > >> > > > >> > >>> About Environment: not a strong requirement in enough
> > >> cases to
> > >> > > not
> > >> > > > >> be
> > >> > > > >> > >>> present by default.
> > >> > > > >> > >>>
> > >> > > > >> > >>> We could surely use [configuration] in our impl pretty
> > >> easily
> > >> > > (in
> > >> > > > a
> > >> > > > >> > >>> format/reader depending where we finish)
> > >> > > > >> > >>>
> > >> > > > >> > >>>
> > >> > > > >> > >>> Romain Manni-Bucau
> > >> > > > >> > >>> @rmannibucau
> > >> > > > >> > >>> http://www.tomitribe.com
> > >> > > > >> > >>> http://rmannibucau.wordpress.com
> > >> > > > >> > >>> https://github.com/rmannibucau
> > >> > > > >> > >>>
> > >> > > > >> > >>>
> > >> > > > >> > >>> 2014-12-04 15:52 GMT+01:00 Werner Keil <
> > >> werner.keil@gmail.com
> > >> > >:
> > >> > > > >> > >>> > After a brief but slightly deeper look at Commons
> > Config
> > >> 2,
> > >> > it
> > >> > > > >> could
> > >> > > > >> > be
> > >> > > > >> > >>> > better separated into API vs. implementations
> (similar
> > to
> > >> > say
> > >> > > > >> Log4J
> > >> > > > >> > 2;-)
> > >> > > > >> > >>> > and something notably absent is the concept of
> "Stage"
> > or
> > >> > > > >> > >>> "Environment". In
> > >> > > > >> > >>> > theory the 2 projects could explore synergies making
> > >> Tamaya
> > >> > > the
> > >> > > > >> > "Cloud
> > >> > > > >> > >>> > Enabler" for some of the core concepts that look
> fairly
> > >> neat
> > >> > > in
> > >> > > > >> > Commons
> > >> > > > >> > >>> > Config 2 (I worked with V1 in a few projects, it was
> a
> > >> bit
> > >> > > > complex
> > >> > > > >> > but
> > >> > > > >> > >>> > doable)
> > >> > > > >> > >>> >
> > >> > > > >> > >>> > Werner
> > >> > > > >> > >>> >
> > >> > > > >> > >>> > On Thu, Dec 4, 2014 at 3:45 PM, Werner Keil <
> > >> > > > >> werner.keil@gmail.com>
> > >> > > > >> > >>> wrote:
> > >> > > > >> > >>> >
> > >> > > > >> > >>> >> Hi,
> > >> > > > >> > >>> >>
> > >> > > > >> > >>> >> Probably more important than config subsystems in
> JSR
> > >> 107
> > >> > or
> > >> > > > >> Log4J 2
> > >> > > > >> > >>> >> (though it altogether got a really good rewrite
> making
> > >> any
> > >> > > > effort
> > >> > > > >> > for a
> > >> > > > >> > >>> >> "Logging JSR" by some people almost pointless;-)
> > seems a
> > >> > > > massive
> > >> > > > >> > >>> redesign
> > >> > > > >> > >>> >> and recent activity of Apache Commons Logging 2:
> > >> > > > >> > >>> >>
> > >> > > > >>
> > >> http://commons.apache.org/proper/commons-configuration/index.html
> > >> > > > >> > >>> >>
> > >> > > > >> > >>> >> Anybody had a look at that?
> > >> > > > >> > >>> >>
> > >> > > > >> > >>> >> Apache certainly has a very multicultural ecosystem,
> > >> look
> > >> > at
> > >> > > > >> Struts
> > >> > > > >> > vs.
> > >> > > > >> > >>> >> OpenFaces vs. Wicket vs. Tapestry and who knows how
> > many
> > >> > (Web
> > >> > > > >> MVC)
> > >> > > > >> > >>> projects
> > >> > > > >> > >>> >> all exist, so why not have at least 2 or 3 for
> > >> > configuration.
> > >> > > > >> > >>> >>
> > >> > > > >> > >>> >> Something noteworthy is, that Commons Configuration
> 2
> > >> > > refrains
> > >> > > > >> from
> > >> > > > >> > any
> > >> > > > >> > >>> >> static factory.
> > >> > > > >> > >>> >> Even a class sounding like it was static such as
> > >> > > Configurations
> > >> > > > >> (in
> > >> > > > >> > a
> > >> > > > >> > >>> new
> > >> > > > >> > >>> >> "fluent" package) works like this:
> > >> > > > >> > >>> >>  Configurations configurations = new
> Configurations();
> > >> > > > >> > >>> >> PropertiesConfiguration config =
> > >> > > configurations.properties(new
> > >> > > > >> File(
> > >> > > > >> > >>> >>          "config.properties"));
> > >> > > > >> > >>> >>
> > >> > > > >> > >>> >> Werner
> > >> > > > >> > >>> >>
> > >> > > > >> > >>> >>
> > >> > > > >> > >>> >>
> > >> > > > >> > >>> >>
> > >> > > > >> > >>>
> > >> > > > >> > >>
> > >> > > > >> > >>
> > >> > > > >> >
> > >> > > > >>
> > >> > > > >
> > >> > > > >
> > >> > > >
> > >> > >
> > >> > >
> > >> > >
> > >> > > --
> > >> > > *Anatole Tresch*
> > >> > > Java Engineer & Architect, JSR Spec Lead
> > >> > > Glärnischweg 10
> > >> > > CH - 8620 Wetzikon
> > >> > >
> > >> > > *Switzerland, Europe Zurich, GMT+1*
> > >> > > *Twitter:  @atsticks*
> > >> > > *Blogs: **http://javaremarkables.blogspot.ch/
> > >> > > <http://javaremarkables.blogspot.ch/>*
> > >> > >
> > >> > > *Google: atsticksMobile  +41-76 344 62 79*
> > >> > >
> > >> >
> > >>
> > >
> > >
> >
>

Re: Commons Config 2

Posted by Gerhard Petracek <ge...@gmail.com>.
@werner:
the reason for my initial call to get back to a step by step approach is
the discussion of concepts like environment, stages,... in this thread.
once we get to those topics, we can compare different approaches for sure.

at deltaspike we had the same issue in the beginning.
once we did reviews and discussions step by step, the quality as well as
the quantity of comments increased.

regards,
gerhard



2014-12-04 17:04 GMT+01:00 Werner Keil <we...@gmail.com>:

> And "rush", what rush?
>
> Unless of course you consider it a race with e.g. Commons Config, there is
> not a strict timeline or quota I'm aware at Apache as e.g. JCP introduced
> lately for new JSRs.
>
> Projects that have a slightly smaller team e.g. DeviceMap take a while, but
> thanks to also my active contribution it just graduated. Others like
> PhoneGap/Cordova, OpenOffice or DeltaSpike with a slightly larger number of
> committers did so a bit earlier. So those who really contribute here will
> determine the pace and when it's ready to leave the incubator.
>
> Werner
>
> On Thu, Dec 4, 2014 at 4:58 PM, Werner Keil <we...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Where do you get that?
> >
> > There were suggestions to "prune" things, which e.g. Anatole also did not
> > see useful.
> > It's a good thing to know Commons Config (which was among the "related
> > projects" from day one of this effort) is active again, whether we feel
> > it's good to incorporate it or work separately, I guess we'll find out
> down
> > the path.
> >
> > Regards,
> > Werner
> >
> > On Thu, Dec 4, 2014 at 4:53 PM, Gerhard Petracek <
> > gerhard.petracek@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> @werner:
> >> please don't get it wrong, but if you don't like something - just tell
> it
> >> - intimations don't help a lot.
> >> afaik we aren't in a rush and therefore we can just benefit from
> >> discussing
> >> and reviewing topics step by step.
> >>
> >> regards,
> >> gerhard
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> 2014-12-04 16:49 GMT+01:00 Werner Keil <we...@gmail.com>:
> >>
> >> > About Commons Config, I am not sure, if he's still involved, but given
> >> Geir
> >> > was also elected into the JCP EC I should be able to chat with him
> >> about it
> >> > during upcoming F2F meeting like the one in January. He was a
> committer
> >> to
> >> > Commons Config 1, but no longer seems to contribute there now.
> >> >
> >> > Werner
> >> >
> >> > On Thu, Dec 4, 2014 at 4:43 PM, Anatole Tresch <at...@gmail.com>
> >> wrote:
> >> >
> >> > > Hi all
> >> > >
> >> > > please just try to be polite to each other. Most important thing is:
> >> edit
> >> > > the subject before sending a new topic, so a new thread is opened,
> and
> >> > yes
> >> > > ensure not more than 2-3 threads are running in parallel ;).
> >> Currently it
> >> > > is really a mess. Basically we discuss 2 things as of now, and I
> >> suggest
> >> > to
> >> > > postpone other topics a bit, so we keep control...
> >> > >
> >> > > -Anatole
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > > 2014-12-04 16:31 GMT+01:00 Werner Keil <we...@gmail.com>:
> >> > >
> >> > > > You may have noticed, the very important "annot" point was also
> >> "bent"
> >> > > > beyond recognition with other sometimes random topics. Maybe
> >> somebody
> >> > > > should simply have created a separate thread or replied
> elsewhere;-)
> >> > > >
> >> > > >
> >> > > >
> >> > > >
> >> > > >
> >> > > > On Thu, Dec 4, 2014 at 4:29 PM, Werner Keil <
> werner.keil@gmail.com>
> >> > > wrote:
> >> > > >
> >> > > > > Well there are replies to good to know fact that Commons Config
> is
> >> > > "alive
> >> > > > > and kicking" (based on the project page and recent activity)
> that
> >> > > should
> >> > > > > not belong to this thread.
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > > @Romain, others please discuss things like stage, etc. it in
> other
> >> > > > > threads;-)
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > > Thanks,
> >> > > > > Werner
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > > On Thu, Dec 4, 2014 at 4:24 PM, Gerhard Petracek <
> >> > > > > gerhard.petracek@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > >> @werner:
> >> > > > >> we already have important and ongoing discussions in other
> >> threads
> >> > > > >> (starting step by step).
> >> > > > >> imo it doesn't make sense to start new threads about "random"
> >> topics
> >> > > > which
> >> > > > >> will be discussed later on (once they are due).
> >> > > > >>
> >> > > > >> regards,
> >> > > > >> gerhard
> >> > > > >>
> >> > > > >>
> >> > > > >>
> >> > > > >> 2014-12-04 16:16 GMT+01:00 Romain Manni-Bucau <
> >> > rmannibucau@gmail.com
> >> > > >:
> >> > > > >>
> >> > > > >> > there are stages in jsf, deltaspike, spring and several other
> >> > libs.
> >> > > In
> >> > > > >> > practise a system property is also ofnte used and enough for
> >> the
> >> > > > >> > config:
> >> > > > >> >
> >> > > > >> > Configuration.fromPaths("/foo/bar/" +
> >> > > > >> > System.getProperty("myapp.stage", "prod") +
> >> "-config.properties);
> >> > > > >> >
> >> > > > >> >
> >> > > > >> > Environment would make sense only when we'll support
> >> distribution
> >> > > > >> > which is far to be the case so we can maybe drop it for now.
> >> > > > >> >
> >> > > > >> >
> >> > > > >> >
> >> > > > >> >
> >> > > > >> > Romain Manni-Bucau
> >> > > > >> > @rmannibucau
> >> > > > >> > http://www.tomitribe.com
> >> > > > >> > http://rmannibucau.wordpress.com
> >> > > > >> > https://github.com/rmannibucau
> >> > > > >> >
> >> > > > >> >
> >> > > > >> > 2014-12-04 16:11 GMT+01:00 Werner Keil <
> werner.keil@gmail.com
> >> >:
> >> > > > >> > > One could merge *Stage *and *Environment*, see Multiconf,
> but
> >> > > > abusing
> >> > > > >> > *Stage
> >> > > > >> > > *to model *Environment *seems rather pointless.
> >> > > > >> > >
> >> > > > >> > > Werner
> >> > > > >> > >
> >> > > > >> > > On Thu, Dec 4, 2014 at 4:09 PM, Werner Keil <
> >> > > werner.keil@gmail.com>
> >> > > > >> > wrote:
> >> > > > >> > >
> >> > > > >> > >> >About stage: we have enough stage outside tje config to
> >> use it
> >> > > > >> without
> >> > > > >> > >> What do you mean here, the totally inadequate ProjectStage
> >> enum
> >> > > in
> >> > > > >> > JSF?;-)
> >> > > > >> > >>
> >> > > > >> > >> IMHO at least the notion of Environment should be present,
> >> > > > otherwise
> >> > > > >> > >> multi-tenancy or "Cloud" support that Java EE keeps
> babbling
> >> > > about
> >> > > > >> ever
> >> > > > >> > >> since at least EE 7 will remain the same joke and empty
> >> phrase
> >> > in
> >> > > > >> > Tamaya as
> >> > > > >> > >> it does there (or in the PR of most large companies
> >> including
> >> > > > >> Oracle;-D)
> >> > > > >> > >>
> >> > > > >> > >> Werner Keil | JCP Executive Committee Member, JSR 363 Co
> >> Spec
> >> > > Lead
> >> > > > |
> >> > > > >> > >> Eclipse UOMo Lead, Babel Language Champion | Apache
> >> Committer |
> >> > > > >> Advisory
> >> > > > >> > >> Board Member, DWX '15
> >> > > > >> > >>
> >> > > > >> > >> Twitter @wernerkeil | @UnitAPI | @JSR354 | @AgoravaProj |
> >> > > > @DeviceMap
> >> > > > >> |
> >> > > > >> > #EclipseUOMo
> >> > > > >> > >> | #DevOps
> >> > > > >> > >> Skype werner.keil | Google+ gplus.to/wernerkeil
> >> > > > >> > >>
> >> > > > >> > >> On Thu, Dec 4, 2014 at 4:02 PM, Romain Manni-Bucau <
> >> > > > >> > rmannibucau@gmail.com>
> >> > > > >> > >> wrote:
> >> > > > >> > >>
> >> > > > >> > >>> About stage: we have enough stage outside tje config to
> >> use it
> >> > > > >> without
> >> > > > >> > >>> any issue or code to write with [configuration].
> >> > > > >> > >>> About Environment: not a strong requirement in enough
> >> cases to
> >> > > not
> >> > > > >> be
> >> > > > >> > >>> present by default.
> >> > > > >> > >>>
> >> > > > >> > >>> We could surely use [configuration] in our impl pretty
> >> easily
> >> > > (in
> >> > > > a
> >> > > > >> > >>> format/reader depending where we finish)
> >> > > > >> > >>>
> >> > > > >> > >>>
> >> > > > >> > >>> Romain Manni-Bucau
> >> > > > >> > >>> @rmannibucau
> >> > > > >> > >>> http://www.tomitribe.com
> >> > > > >> > >>> http://rmannibucau.wordpress.com
> >> > > > >> > >>> https://github.com/rmannibucau
> >> > > > >> > >>>
> >> > > > >> > >>>
> >> > > > >> > >>> 2014-12-04 15:52 GMT+01:00 Werner Keil <
> >> werner.keil@gmail.com
> >> > >:
> >> > > > >> > >>> > After a brief but slightly deeper look at Commons
> Config
> >> 2,
> >> > it
> >> > > > >> could
> >> > > > >> > be
> >> > > > >> > >>> > better separated into API vs. implementations (similar
> to
> >> > say
> >> > > > >> Log4J
> >> > > > >> > 2;-)
> >> > > > >> > >>> > and something notably absent is the concept of "Stage"
> or
> >> > > > >> > >>> "Environment". In
> >> > > > >> > >>> > theory the 2 projects could explore synergies making
> >> Tamaya
> >> > > the
> >> > > > >> > "Cloud
> >> > > > >> > >>> > Enabler" for some of the core concepts that look fairly
> >> neat
> >> > > in
> >> > > > >> > Commons
> >> > > > >> > >>> > Config 2 (I worked with V1 in a few projects, it was a
> >> bit
> >> > > > complex
> >> > > > >> > but
> >> > > > >> > >>> > doable)
> >> > > > >> > >>> >
> >> > > > >> > >>> > Werner
> >> > > > >> > >>> >
> >> > > > >> > >>> > On Thu, Dec 4, 2014 at 3:45 PM, Werner Keil <
> >> > > > >> werner.keil@gmail.com>
> >> > > > >> > >>> wrote:
> >> > > > >> > >>> >
> >> > > > >> > >>> >> Hi,
> >> > > > >> > >>> >>
> >> > > > >> > >>> >> Probably more important than config subsystems in JSR
> >> 107
> >> > or
> >> > > > >> Log4J 2
> >> > > > >> > >>> >> (though it altogether got a really good rewrite making
> >> any
> >> > > > effort
> >> > > > >> > for a
> >> > > > >> > >>> >> "Logging JSR" by some people almost pointless;-)
> seems a
> >> > > > massive
> >> > > > >> > >>> redesign
> >> > > > >> > >>> >> and recent activity of Apache Commons Logging 2:
> >> > > > >> > >>> >>
> >> > > > >>
> >> http://commons.apache.org/proper/commons-configuration/index.html
> >> > > > >> > >>> >>
> >> > > > >> > >>> >> Anybody had a look at that?
> >> > > > >> > >>> >>
> >> > > > >> > >>> >> Apache certainly has a very multicultural ecosystem,
> >> look
> >> > at
> >> > > > >> Struts
> >> > > > >> > vs.
> >> > > > >> > >>> >> OpenFaces vs. Wicket vs. Tapestry and who knows how
> many
> >> > (Web
> >> > > > >> MVC)
> >> > > > >> > >>> projects
> >> > > > >> > >>> >> all exist, so why not have at least 2 or 3 for
> >> > configuration.
> >> > > > >> > >>> >>
> >> > > > >> > >>> >> Something noteworthy is, that Commons Configuration 2
> >> > > refrains
> >> > > > >> from
> >> > > > >> > any
> >> > > > >> > >>> >> static factory.
> >> > > > >> > >>> >> Even a class sounding like it was static such as
> >> > > Configurations
> >> > > > >> (in
> >> > > > >> > a
> >> > > > >> > >>> new
> >> > > > >> > >>> >> "fluent" package) works like this:
> >> > > > >> > >>> >>  Configurations configurations = new Configurations();
> >> > > > >> > >>> >> PropertiesConfiguration config =
> >> > > configurations.properties(new
> >> > > > >> File(
> >> > > > >> > >>> >>          "config.properties"));
> >> > > > >> > >>> >>
> >> > > > >> > >>> >> Werner
> >> > > > >> > >>> >>
> >> > > > >> > >>> >>
> >> > > > >> > >>> >>
> >> > > > >> > >>> >>
> >> > > > >> > >>>
> >> > > > >> > >>
> >> > > > >> > >>
> >> > > > >> >
> >> > > > >>
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > >
> >> > > >
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > > --
> >> > > *Anatole Tresch*
> >> > > Java Engineer & Architect, JSR Spec Lead
> >> > > Glärnischweg 10
> >> > > CH - 8620 Wetzikon
> >> > >
> >> > > *Switzerland, Europe Zurich, GMT+1*
> >> > > *Twitter:  @atsticks*
> >> > > *Blogs: **http://javaremarkables.blogspot.ch/
> >> > > <http://javaremarkables.blogspot.ch/>*
> >> > >
> >> > > *Google: atsticksMobile  +41-76 344 62 79*
> >> > >
> >> >
> >>
> >
> >
>

Re: Commons Config 2

Posted by Werner Keil <we...@gmail.com>.
And "rush", what rush?

Unless of course you consider it a race with e.g. Commons Config, there is
not a strict timeline or quota I'm aware at Apache as e.g. JCP introduced
lately for new JSRs.

Projects that have a slightly smaller team e.g. DeviceMap take a while, but
thanks to also my active contribution it just graduated. Others like
PhoneGap/Cordova, OpenOffice or DeltaSpike with a slightly larger number of
committers did so a bit earlier. So those who really contribute here will
determine the pace and when it's ready to leave the incubator.

Werner

On Thu, Dec 4, 2014 at 4:58 PM, Werner Keil <we...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Where do you get that?
>
> There were suggestions to "prune" things, which e.g. Anatole also did not
> see useful.
> It's a good thing to know Commons Config (which was among the "related
> projects" from day one of this effort) is active again, whether we feel
> it's good to incorporate it or work separately, I guess we'll find out down
> the path.
>
> Regards,
> Werner
>
> On Thu, Dec 4, 2014 at 4:53 PM, Gerhard Petracek <
> gerhard.petracek@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> @werner:
>> please don't get it wrong, but if you don't like something - just tell it
>> - intimations don't help a lot.
>> afaik we aren't in a rush and therefore we can just benefit from
>> discussing
>> and reviewing topics step by step.
>>
>> regards,
>> gerhard
>>
>>
>>
>> 2014-12-04 16:49 GMT+01:00 Werner Keil <we...@gmail.com>:
>>
>> > About Commons Config, I am not sure, if he's still involved, but given
>> Geir
>> > was also elected into the JCP EC I should be able to chat with him
>> about it
>> > during upcoming F2F meeting like the one in January. He was a committer
>> to
>> > Commons Config 1, but no longer seems to contribute there now.
>> >
>> > Werner
>> >
>> > On Thu, Dec 4, 2014 at 4:43 PM, Anatole Tresch <at...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> >
>> > > Hi all
>> > >
>> > > please just try to be polite to each other. Most important thing is:
>> edit
>> > > the subject before sending a new topic, so a new thread is opened, and
>> > yes
>> > > ensure not more than 2-3 threads are running in parallel ;).
>> Currently it
>> > > is really a mess. Basically we discuss 2 things as of now, and I
>> suggest
>> > to
>> > > postpone other topics a bit, so we keep control...
>> > >
>> > > -Anatole
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > 2014-12-04 16:31 GMT+01:00 Werner Keil <we...@gmail.com>:
>> > >
>> > > > You may have noticed, the very important "annot" point was also
>> "bent"
>> > > > beyond recognition with other sometimes random topics. Maybe
>> somebody
>> > > > should simply have created a separate thread or replied elsewhere;-)
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > > On Thu, Dec 4, 2014 at 4:29 PM, Werner Keil <we...@gmail.com>
>> > > wrote:
>> > > >
>> > > > > Well there are replies to good to know fact that Commons Config is
>> > > "alive
>> > > > > and kicking" (based on the project page and recent activity) that
>> > > should
>> > > > > not belong to this thread.
>> > > > >
>> > > > > @Romain, others please discuss things like stage, etc. it in other
>> > > > > threads;-)
>> > > > >
>> > > > > Thanks,
>> > > > > Werner
>> > > > >
>> > > > > On Thu, Dec 4, 2014 at 4:24 PM, Gerhard Petracek <
>> > > > > gerhard.petracek@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > > > >
>> > > > >> @werner:
>> > > > >> we already have important and ongoing discussions in other
>> threads
>> > > > >> (starting step by step).
>> > > > >> imo it doesn't make sense to start new threads about "random"
>> topics
>> > > > which
>> > > > >> will be discussed later on (once they are due).
>> > > > >>
>> > > > >> regards,
>> > > > >> gerhard
>> > > > >>
>> > > > >>
>> > > > >>
>> > > > >> 2014-12-04 16:16 GMT+01:00 Romain Manni-Bucau <
>> > rmannibucau@gmail.com
>> > > >:
>> > > > >>
>> > > > >> > there are stages in jsf, deltaspike, spring and several other
>> > libs.
>> > > In
>> > > > >> > practise a system property is also ofnte used and enough for
>> the
>> > > > >> > config:
>> > > > >> >
>> > > > >> > Configuration.fromPaths("/foo/bar/" +
>> > > > >> > System.getProperty("myapp.stage", "prod") +
>> "-config.properties);
>> > > > >> >
>> > > > >> >
>> > > > >> > Environment would make sense only when we'll support
>> distribution
>> > > > >> > which is far to be the case so we can maybe drop it for now.
>> > > > >> >
>> > > > >> >
>> > > > >> >
>> > > > >> >
>> > > > >> > Romain Manni-Bucau
>> > > > >> > @rmannibucau
>> > > > >> > http://www.tomitribe.com
>> > > > >> > http://rmannibucau.wordpress.com
>> > > > >> > https://github.com/rmannibucau
>> > > > >> >
>> > > > >> >
>> > > > >> > 2014-12-04 16:11 GMT+01:00 Werner Keil <werner.keil@gmail.com
>> >:
>> > > > >> > > One could merge *Stage *and *Environment*, see Multiconf, but
>> > > > abusing
>> > > > >> > *Stage
>> > > > >> > > *to model *Environment *seems rather pointless.
>> > > > >> > >
>> > > > >> > > Werner
>> > > > >> > >
>> > > > >> > > On Thu, Dec 4, 2014 at 4:09 PM, Werner Keil <
>> > > werner.keil@gmail.com>
>> > > > >> > wrote:
>> > > > >> > >
>> > > > >> > >> >About stage: we have enough stage outside tje config to
>> use it
>> > > > >> without
>> > > > >> > >> What do you mean here, the totally inadequate ProjectStage
>> enum
>> > > in
>> > > > >> > JSF?;-)
>> > > > >> > >>
>> > > > >> > >> IMHO at least the notion of Environment should be present,
>> > > > otherwise
>> > > > >> > >> multi-tenancy or "Cloud" support that Java EE keeps babbling
>> > > about
>> > > > >> ever
>> > > > >> > >> since at least EE 7 will remain the same joke and empty
>> phrase
>> > in
>> > > > >> > Tamaya as
>> > > > >> > >> it does there (or in the PR of most large companies
>> including
>> > > > >> Oracle;-D)
>> > > > >> > >>
>> > > > >> > >> Werner Keil | JCP Executive Committee Member, JSR 363 Co
>> Spec
>> > > Lead
>> > > > |
>> > > > >> > >> Eclipse UOMo Lead, Babel Language Champion | Apache
>> Committer |
>> > > > >> Advisory
>> > > > >> > >> Board Member, DWX '15
>> > > > >> > >>
>> > > > >> > >> Twitter @wernerkeil | @UnitAPI | @JSR354 | @AgoravaProj |
>> > > > @DeviceMap
>> > > > >> |
>> > > > >> > #EclipseUOMo
>> > > > >> > >> | #DevOps
>> > > > >> > >> Skype werner.keil | Google+ gplus.to/wernerkeil
>> > > > >> > >>
>> > > > >> > >> On Thu, Dec 4, 2014 at 4:02 PM, Romain Manni-Bucau <
>> > > > >> > rmannibucau@gmail.com>
>> > > > >> > >> wrote:
>> > > > >> > >>
>> > > > >> > >>> About stage: we have enough stage outside tje config to
>> use it
>> > > > >> without
>> > > > >> > >>> any issue or code to write with [configuration].
>> > > > >> > >>> About Environment: not a strong requirement in enough
>> cases to
>> > > not
>> > > > >> be
>> > > > >> > >>> present by default.
>> > > > >> > >>>
>> > > > >> > >>> We could surely use [configuration] in our impl pretty
>> easily
>> > > (in
>> > > > a
>> > > > >> > >>> format/reader depending where we finish)
>> > > > >> > >>>
>> > > > >> > >>>
>> > > > >> > >>> Romain Manni-Bucau
>> > > > >> > >>> @rmannibucau
>> > > > >> > >>> http://www.tomitribe.com
>> > > > >> > >>> http://rmannibucau.wordpress.com
>> > > > >> > >>> https://github.com/rmannibucau
>> > > > >> > >>>
>> > > > >> > >>>
>> > > > >> > >>> 2014-12-04 15:52 GMT+01:00 Werner Keil <
>> werner.keil@gmail.com
>> > >:
>> > > > >> > >>> > After a brief but slightly deeper look at Commons Config
>> 2,
>> > it
>> > > > >> could
>> > > > >> > be
>> > > > >> > >>> > better separated into API vs. implementations (similar to
>> > say
>> > > > >> Log4J
>> > > > >> > 2;-)
>> > > > >> > >>> > and something notably absent is the concept of "Stage" or
>> > > > >> > >>> "Environment". In
>> > > > >> > >>> > theory the 2 projects could explore synergies making
>> Tamaya
>> > > the
>> > > > >> > "Cloud
>> > > > >> > >>> > Enabler" for some of the core concepts that look fairly
>> neat
>> > > in
>> > > > >> > Commons
>> > > > >> > >>> > Config 2 (I worked with V1 in a few projects, it was a
>> bit
>> > > > complex
>> > > > >> > but
>> > > > >> > >>> > doable)
>> > > > >> > >>> >
>> > > > >> > >>> > Werner
>> > > > >> > >>> >
>> > > > >> > >>> > On Thu, Dec 4, 2014 at 3:45 PM, Werner Keil <
>> > > > >> werner.keil@gmail.com>
>> > > > >> > >>> wrote:
>> > > > >> > >>> >
>> > > > >> > >>> >> Hi,
>> > > > >> > >>> >>
>> > > > >> > >>> >> Probably more important than config subsystems in JSR
>> 107
>> > or
>> > > > >> Log4J 2
>> > > > >> > >>> >> (though it altogether got a really good rewrite making
>> any
>> > > > effort
>> > > > >> > for a
>> > > > >> > >>> >> "Logging JSR" by some people almost pointless;-) seems a
>> > > > massive
>> > > > >> > >>> redesign
>> > > > >> > >>> >> and recent activity of Apache Commons Logging 2:
>> > > > >> > >>> >>
>> > > > >>
>> http://commons.apache.org/proper/commons-configuration/index.html
>> > > > >> > >>> >>
>> > > > >> > >>> >> Anybody had a look at that?
>> > > > >> > >>> >>
>> > > > >> > >>> >> Apache certainly has a very multicultural ecosystem,
>> look
>> > at
>> > > > >> Struts
>> > > > >> > vs.
>> > > > >> > >>> >> OpenFaces vs. Wicket vs. Tapestry and who knows how many
>> > (Web
>> > > > >> MVC)
>> > > > >> > >>> projects
>> > > > >> > >>> >> all exist, so why not have at least 2 or 3 for
>> > configuration.
>> > > > >> > >>> >>
>> > > > >> > >>> >> Something noteworthy is, that Commons Configuration 2
>> > > refrains
>> > > > >> from
>> > > > >> > any
>> > > > >> > >>> >> static factory.
>> > > > >> > >>> >> Even a class sounding like it was static such as
>> > > Configurations
>> > > > >> (in
>> > > > >> > a
>> > > > >> > >>> new
>> > > > >> > >>> >> "fluent" package) works like this:
>> > > > >> > >>> >>  Configurations configurations = new Configurations();
>> > > > >> > >>> >> PropertiesConfiguration config =
>> > > configurations.properties(new
>> > > > >> File(
>> > > > >> > >>> >>          "config.properties"));
>> > > > >> > >>> >>
>> > > > >> > >>> >> Werner
>> > > > >> > >>> >>
>> > > > >> > >>> >>
>> > > > >> > >>> >>
>> > > > >> > >>> >>
>> > > > >> > >>>
>> > > > >> > >>
>> > > > >> > >>
>> > > > >> >
>> > > > >>
>> > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > --
>> > > *Anatole Tresch*
>> > > Java Engineer & Architect, JSR Spec Lead
>> > > Glärnischweg 10
>> > > CH - 8620 Wetzikon
>> > >
>> > > *Switzerland, Europe Zurich, GMT+1*
>> > > *Twitter:  @atsticks*
>> > > *Blogs: **http://javaremarkables.blogspot.ch/
>> > > <http://javaremarkables.blogspot.ch/>*
>> > >
>> > > *Google: atsticksMobile  +41-76 344 62 79*
>> > >
>> >
>>
>
>

Re: Commons Config 2

Posted by Anatole Tresch <at...@gmail.com>.
I also want to add some aspects to commons-config, just to compare also the
design fundamentals that in some aspects are different (nevertheless if I
am wrong let me know, I do not know it very deeply):

1) commons-config2, similar to 1 requires explicit know how on the classes
that implement a behaviour. So you create hard implementation dependencies
e.g. for aggregations you have to write new ConfigurationCombiner(...). Of
course, you may have a common interface, which models the common behaviour.
But as a consequence you make your API footprint bigger than necessary,
especially when you have multiple common use cases. Compared to that
providing default implementations using static factory methods reduces this
dependency since you only have one dep to the singleton, instead of - lets
say - ten. Therefore static accessors are not always a bad thing and
therefore I consider this part of the API not well designed. This gets even
worse with the ability to parametrize behaviour in Java 8.
2) Regarding mutability they guys there follow, compared to version 1, a
similar approach that I also suggested with the ChangeSet mechanism ;) But
still many aspects are not thread-safe, which for an EE environment is a
showstopper.
3) the missing environment and static accessors similar to
Configuration.current() make the API for me more a library than a solution.
The missing environment model for me is a showstopper for all complex
environments because everyone has to think/implement on these (not easy)
aspects again. If you build something on top of CDI, you have scopes. On
top of SE you basically have nothing (maybe classloaders). Considering
configuration as a concept that affects everything within a runtime stack,
an environment model seems to me a crucial abstraction for identifying the
current runtime context, and a precondition to determine the configuration
matching this runtime and therefore implementing the convenience of relying
the configuration framework to provide the right configuration for each
runtime context..
4) The good thing: they have really plenty support for low level stuff.
Formats etc.

-A



2014-12-04 16:58 GMT+01:00 Werner Keil <we...@gmail.com>:

> Where do you get that?
>
> There were suggestions to "prune" things, which e.g. Anatole also did not
> see useful.
> It's a good thing to know Commons Config (which was among the "related
> projects" from day one of this effort) is active again, whether we feel
> it's good to incorporate it or work separately, I guess we'll find out down
> the path.
>
> Regards,
> Werner
>
> On Thu, Dec 4, 2014 at 4:53 PM, Gerhard Petracek <
> gerhard.petracek@gmail.com
> > wrote:
>
> > @werner:
> > please don't get it wrong, but if you don't like something - just tell it
> > - intimations don't help a lot.
> > afaik we aren't in a rush and therefore we can just benefit from
> discussing
> > and reviewing topics step by step.
> >
> > regards,
> > gerhard
> >
> >
> >
> > 2014-12-04 16:49 GMT+01:00 Werner Keil <we...@gmail.com>:
> >
> > > About Commons Config, I am not sure, if he's still involved, but given
> > Geir
> > > was also elected into the JCP EC I should be able to chat with him
> about
> > it
> > > during upcoming F2F meeting like the one in January. He was a committer
> > to
> > > Commons Config 1, but no longer seems to contribute there now.
> > >
> > > Werner
> > >
> > > On Thu, Dec 4, 2014 at 4:43 PM, Anatole Tresch <at...@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > > Hi all
> > > >
> > > > please just try to be polite to each other. Most important thing is:
> > edit
> > > > the subject before sending a new topic, so a new thread is opened,
> and
> > > yes
> > > > ensure not more than 2-3 threads are running in parallel ;).
> Currently
> > it
> > > > is really a mess. Basically we discuss 2 things as of now, and I
> > suggest
> > > to
> > > > postpone other topics a bit, so we keep control...
> > > >
> > > > -Anatole
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > 2014-12-04 16:31 GMT+01:00 Werner Keil <we...@gmail.com>:
> > > >
> > > > > You may have noticed, the very important "annot" point was also
> > "bent"
> > > > > beyond recognition with other sometimes random topics. Maybe
> somebody
> > > > > should simply have created a separate thread or replied
> elsewhere;-)
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > On Thu, Dec 4, 2014 at 4:29 PM, Werner Keil <werner.keil@gmail.com
> >
> > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > Well there are replies to good to know fact that Commons Config
> is
> > > > "alive
> > > > > > and kicking" (based on the project page and recent activity) that
> > > > should
> > > > > > not belong to this thread.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > @Romain, others please discuss things like stage, etc. it in
> other
> > > > > > threads;-)
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Thanks,
> > > > > > Werner
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On Thu, Dec 4, 2014 at 4:24 PM, Gerhard Petracek <
> > > > > > gerhard.petracek@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > >> @werner:
> > > > > >> we already have important and ongoing discussions in other
> threads
> > > > > >> (starting step by step).
> > > > > >> imo it doesn't make sense to start new threads about "random"
> > topics
> > > > > which
> > > > > >> will be discussed later on (once they are due).
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> regards,
> > > > > >> gerhard
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> 2014-12-04 16:16 GMT+01:00 Romain Manni-Bucau <
> > > rmannibucau@gmail.com
> > > > >:
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> > there are stages in jsf, deltaspike, spring and several other
> > > libs.
> > > > In
> > > > > >> > practise a system property is also ofnte used and enough for
> the
> > > > > >> > config:
> > > > > >> >
> > > > > >> > Configuration.fromPaths("/foo/bar/" +
> > > > > >> > System.getProperty("myapp.stage", "prod") +
> > "-config.properties);
> > > > > >> >
> > > > > >> >
> > > > > >> > Environment would make sense only when we'll support
> > distribution
> > > > > >> > which is far to be the case so we can maybe drop it for now.
> > > > > >> >
> > > > > >> >
> > > > > >> >
> > > > > >> >
> > > > > >> > Romain Manni-Bucau
> > > > > >> > @rmannibucau
> > > > > >> > http://www.tomitribe.com
> > > > > >> > http://rmannibucau.wordpress.com
> > > > > >> > https://github.com/rmannibucau
> > > > > >> >
> > > > > >> >
> > > > > >> > 2014-12-04 16:11 GMT+01:00 Werner Keil <werner.keil@gmail.com
> >:
> > > > > >> > > One could merge *Stage *and *Environment*, see Multiconf,
> but
> > > > > abusing
> > > > > >> > *Stage
> > > > > >> > > *to model *Environment *seems rather pointless.
> > > > > >> > >
> > > > > >> > > Werner
> > > > > >> > >
> > > > > >> > > On Thu, Dec 4, 2014 at 4:09 PM, Werner Keil <
> > > > werner.keil@gmail.com>
> > > > > >> > wrote:
> > > > > >> > >
> > > > > >> > >> >About stage: we have enough stage outside tje config to
> use
> > it
> > > > > >> without
> > > > > >> > >> What do you mean here, the totally inadequate ProjectStage
> > enum
> > > > in
> > > > > >> > JSF?;-)
> > > > > >> > >>
> > > > > >> > >> IMHO at least the notion of Environment should be present,
> > > > > otherwise
> > > > > >> > >> multi-tenancy or "Cloud" support that Java EE keeps
> babbling
> > > > about
> > > > > >> ever
> > > > > >> > >> since at least EE 7 will remain the same joke and empty
> > phrase
> > > in
> > > > > >> > Tamaya as
> > > > > >> > >> it does there (or in the PR of most large companies
> including
> > > > > >> Oracle;-D)
> > > > > >> > >>
> > > > > >> > >> Werner Keil | JCP Executive Committee Member, JSR 363 Co
> Spec
> > > > Lead
> > > > > |
> > > > > >> > >> Eclipse UOMo Lead, Babel Language Champion | Apache
> > Committer |
> > > > > >> Advisory
> > > > > >> > >> Board Member, DWX '15
> > > > > >> > >>
> > > > > >> > >> Twitter @wernerkeil | @UnitAPI | @JSR354 | @AgoravaProj |
> > > > > @DeviceMap
> > > > > >> |
> > > > > >> > #EclipseUOMo
> > > > > >> > >> | #DevOps
> > > > > >> > >> Skype werner.keil | Google+ gplus.to/wernerkeil
> > > > > >> > >>
> > > > > >> > >> On Thu, Dec 4, 2014 at 4:02 PM, Romain Manni-Bucau <
> > > > > >> > rmannibucau@gmail.com>
> > > > > >> > >> wrote:
> > > > > >> > >>
> > > > > >> > >>> About stage: we have enough stage outside tje config to
> use
> > it
> > > > > >> without
> > > > > >> > >>> any issue or code to write with [configuration].
> > > > > >> > >>> About Environment: not a strong requirement in enough
> cases
> > to
> > > > not
> > > > > >> be
> > > > > >> > >>> present by default.
> > > > > >> > >>>
> > > > > >> > >>> We could surely use [configuration] in our impl pretty
> > easily
> > > > (in
> > > > > a
> > > > > >> > >>> format/reader depending where we finish)
> > > > > >> > >>>
> > > > > >> > >>>
> > > > > >> > >>> Romain Manni-Bucau
> > > > > >> > >>> @rmannibucau
> > > > > >> > >>> http://www.tomitribe.com
> > > > > >> > >>> http://rmannibucau.wordpress.com
> > > > > >> > >>> https://github.com/rmannibucau
> > > > > >> > >>>
> > > > > >> > >>>
> > > > > >> > >>> 2014-12-04 15:52 GMT+01:00 Werner Keil <
> > werner.keil@gmail.com
> > > >:
> > > > > >> > >>> > After a brief but slightly deeper look at Commons Config
> > 2,
> > > it
> > > > > >> could
> > > > > >> > be
> > > > > >> > >>> > better separated into API vs. implementations (similar
> to
> > > say
> > > > > >> Log4J
> > > > > >> > 2;-)
> > > > > >> > >>> > and something notably absent is the concept of "Stage"
> or
> > > > > >> > >>> "Environment". In
> > > > > >> > >>> > theory the 2 projects could explore synergies making
> > Tamaya
> > > > the
> > > > > >> > "Cloud
> > > > > >> > >>> > Enabler" for some of the core concepts that look fairly
> > neat
> > > > in
> > > > > >> > Commons
> > > > > >> > >>> > Config 2 (I worked with V1 in a few projects, it was a
> bit
> > > > > complex
> > > > > >> > but
> > > > > >> > >>> > doable)
> > > > > >> > >>> >
> > > > > >> > >>> > Werner
> > > > > >> > >>> >
> > > > > >> > >>> > On Thu, Dec 4, 2014 at 3:45 PM, Werner Keil <
> > > > > >> werner.keil@gmail.com>
> > > > > >> > >>> wrote:
> > > > > >> > >>> >
> > > > > >> > >>> >> Hi,
> > > > > >> > >>> >>
> > > > > >> > >>> >> Probably more important than config subsystems in JSR
> 107
> > > or
> > > > > >> Log4J 2
> > > > > >> > >>> >> (though it altogether got a really good rewrite making
> > any
> > > > > effort
> > > > > >> > for a
> > > > > >> > >>> >> "Logging JSR" by some people almost pointless;-) seems
> a
> > > > > massive
> > > > > >> > >>> redesign
> > > > > >> > >>> >> and recent activity of Apache Commons Logging 2:
> > > > > >> > >>> >>
> > > > > >>
> http://commons.apache.org/proper/commons-configuration/index.html
> > > > > >> > >>> >>
> > > > > >> > >>> >> Anybody had a look at that?
> > > > > >> > >>> >>
> > > > > >> > >>> >> Apache certainly has a very multicultural ecosystem,
> look
> > > at
> > > > > >> Struts
> > > > > >> > vs.
> > > > > >> > >>> >> OpenFaces vs. Wicket vs. Tapestry and who knows how
> many
> > > (Web
> > > > > >> MVC)
> > > > > >> > >>> projects
> > > > > >> > >>> >> all exist, so why not have at least 2 or 3 for
> > > configuration.
> > > > > >> > >>> >>
> > > > > >> > >>> >> Something noteworthy is, that Commons Configuration 2
> > > > refrains
> > > > > >> from
> > > > > >> > any
> > > > > >> > >>> >> static factory.
> > > > > >> > >>> >> Even a class sounding like it was static such as
> > > > Configurations
> > > > > >> (in
> > > > > >> > a
> > > > > >> > >>> new
> > > > > >> > >>> >> "fluent" package) works like this:
> > > > > >> > >>> >>  Configurations configurations = new Configurations();
> > > > > >> > >>> >> PropertiesConfiguration config =
> > > > configurations.properties(new
> > > > > >> File(
> > > > > >> > >>> >>          "config.properties"));
> > > > > >> > >>> >>
> > > > > >> > >>> >> Werner
> > > > > >> > >>> >>
> > > > > >> > >>> >>
> > > > > >> > >>> >>
> > > > > >> > >>> >>
> > > > > >> > >>>
> > > > > >> > >>
> > > > > >> > >>
> > > > > >> >
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > *Anatole Tresch*
> > > > Java Engineer & Architect, JSR Spec Lead
> > > > Glärnischweg 10
> > > > CH - 8620 Wetzikon
> > > >
> > > > *Switzerland, Europe Zurich, GMT+1*
> > > > *Twitter:  @atsticks*
> > > > *Blogs: **http://javaremarkables.blogspot.ch/
> > > > <http://javaremarkables.blogspot.ch/>*
> > > >
> > > > *Google: atsticksMobile  +41-76 344 62 79*
> > > >
> > >
> >
>



-- 
*Anatole Tresch*
Java Engineer & Architect, JSR Spec Lead
Glärnischweg 10
CH - 8620 Wetzikon

*Switzerland, Europe Zurich, GMT+1*
*Twitter:  @atsticks*
*Blogs: **http://javaremarkables.blogspot.ch/
<http://javaremarkables.blogspot.ch/>*

*Google: atsticksMobile  +41-76 344 62 79*

Re: Commons Config 2

Posted by Werner Keil <we...@gmail.com>.
Where do you get that?

There were suggestions to "prune" things, which e.g. Anatole also did not
see useful.
It's a good thing to know Commons Config (which was among the "related
projects" from day one of this effort) is active again, whether we feel
it's good to incorporate it or work separately, I guess we'll find out down
the path.

Regards,
Werner

On Thu, Dec 4, 2014 at 4:53 PM, Gerhard Petracek <gerhard.petracek@gmail.com
> wrote:

> @werner:
> please don't get it wrong, but if you don't like something - just tell it
> - intimations don't help a lot.
> afaik we aren't in a rush and therefore we can just benefit from discussing
> and reviewing topics step by step.
>
> regards,
> gerhard
>
>
>
> 2014-12-04 16:49 GMT+01:00 Werner Keil <we...@gmail.com>:
>
> > About Commons Config, I am not sure, if he's still involved, but given
> Geir
> > was also elected into the JCP EC I should be able to chat with him about
> it
> > during upcoming F2F meeting like the one in January. He was a committer
> to
> > Commons Config 1, but no longer seems to contribute there now.
> >
> > Werner
> >
> > On Thu, Dec 4, 2014 at 4:43 PM, Anatole Tresch <at...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >
> > > Hi all
> > >
> > > please just try to be polite to each other. Most important thing is:
> edit
> > > the subject before sending a new topic, so a new thread is opened, and
> > yes
> > > ensure not more than 2-3 threads are running in parallel ;). Currently
> it
> > > is really a mess. Basically we discuss 2 things as of now, and I
> suggest
> > to
> > > postpone other topics a bit, so we keep control...
> > >
> > > -Anatole
> > >
> > >
> > > 2014-12-04 16:31 GMT+01:00 Werner Keil <we...@gmail.com>:
> > >
> > > > You may have noticed, the very important "annot" point was also
> "bent"
> > > > beyond recognition with other sometimes random topics. Maybe somebody
> > > > should simply have created a separate thread or replied elsewhere;-)
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Thu, Dec 4, 2014 at 4:29 PM, Werner Keil <we...@gmail.com>
> > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Well there are replies to good to know fact that Commons Config is
> > > "alive
> > > > > and kicking" (based on the project page and recent activity) that
> > > should
> > > > > not belong to this thread.
> > > > >
> > > > > @Romain, others please discuss things like stage, etc. it in other
> > > > > threads;-)
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks,
> > > > > Werner
> > > > >
> > > > > On Thu, Dec 4, 2014 at 4:24 PM, Gerhard Petracek <
> > > > > gerhard.petracek@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > >> @werner:
> > > > >> we already have important and ongoing discussions in other threads
> > > > >> (starting step by step).
> > > > >> imo it doesn't make sense to start new threads about "random"
> topics
> > > > which
> > > > >> will be discussed later on (once they are due).
> > > > >>
> > > > >> regards,
> > > > >> gerhard
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >> 2014-12-04 16:16 GMT+01:00 Romain Manni-Bucau <
> > rmannibucau@gmail.com
> > > >:
> > > > >>
> > > > >> > there are stages in jsf, deltaspike, spring and several other
> > libs.
> > > In
> > > > >> > practise a system property is also ofnte used and enough for the
> > > > >> > config:
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> > Configuration.fromPaths("/foo/bar/" +
> > > > >> > System.getProperty("myapp.stage", "prod") +
> "-config.properties);
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> > Environment would make sense only when we'll support
> distribution
> > > > >> > which is far to be the case so we can maybe drop it for now.
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> > Romain Manni-Bucau
> > > > >> > @rmannibucau
> > > > >> > http://www.tomitribe.com
> > > > >> > http://rmannibucau.wordpress.com
> > > > >> > https://github.com/rmannibucau
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> > 2014-12-04 16:11 GMT+01:00 Werner Keil <we...@gmail.com>:
> > > > >> > > One could merge *Stage *and *Environment*, see Multiconf, but
> > > > abusing
> > > > >> > *Stage
> > > > >> > > *to model *Environment *seems rather pointless.
> > > > >> > >
> > > > >> > > Werner
> > > > >> > >
> > > > >> > > On Thu, Dec 4, 2014 at 4:09 PM, Werner Keil <
> > > werner.keil@gmail.com>
> > > > >> > wrote:
> > > > >> > >
> > > > >> > >> >About stage: we have enough stage outside tje config to use
> it
> > > > >> without
> > > > >> > >> What do you mean here, the totally inadequate ProjectStage
> enum
> > > in
> > > > >> > JSF?;-)
> > > > >> > >>
> > > > >> > >> IMHO at least the notion of Environment should be present,
> > > > otherwise
> > > > >> > >> multi-tenancy or "Cloud" support that Java EE keeps babbling
> > > about
> > > > >> ever
> > > > >> > >> since at least EE 7 will remain the same joke and empty
> phrase
> > in
> > > > >> > Tamaya as
> > > > >> > >> it does there (or in the PR of most large companies including
> > > > >> Oracle;-D)
> > > > >> > >>
> > > > >> > >> Werner Keil | JCP Executive Committee Member, JSR 363 Co Spec
> > > Lead
> > > > |
> > > > >> > >> Eclipse UOMo Lead, Babel Language Champion | Apache
> Committer |
> > > > >> Advisory
> > > > >> > >> Board Member, DWX '15
> > > > >> > >>
> > > > >> > >> Twitter @wernerkeil | @UnitAPI | @JSR354 | @AgoravaProj |
> > > > @DeviceMap
> > > > >> |
> > > > >> > #EclipseUOMo
> > > > >> > >> | #DevOps
> > > > >> > >> Skype werner.keil | Google+ gplus.to/wernerkeil
> > > > >> > >>
> > > > >> > >> On Thu, Dec 4, 2014 at 4:02 PM, Romain Manni-Bucau <
> > > > >> > rmannibucau@gmail.com>
> > > > >> > >> wrote:
> > > > >> > >>
> > > > >> > >>> About stage: we have enough stage outside tje config to use
> it
> > > > >> without
> > > > >> > >>> any issue or code to write with [configuration].
> > > > >> > >>> About Environment: not a strong requirement in enough cases
> to
> > > not
> > > > >> be
> > > > >> > >>> present by default.
> > > > >> > >>>
> > > > >> > >>> We could surely use [configuration] in our impl pretty
> easily
> > > (in
> > > > a
> > > > >> > >>> format/reader depending where we finish)
> > > > >> > >>>
> > > > >> > >>>
> > > > >> > >>> Romain Manni-Bucau
> > > > >> > >>> @rmannibucau
> > > > >> > >>> http://www.tomitribe.com
> > > > >> > >>> http://rmannibucau.wordpress.com
> > > > >> > >>> https://github.com/rmannibucau
> > > > >> > >>>
> > > > >> > >>>
> > > > >> > >>> 2014-12-04 15:52 GMT+01:00 Werner Keil <
> werner.keil@gmail.com
> > >:
> > > > >> > >>> > After a brief but slightly deeper look at Commons Config
> 2,
> > it
> > > > >> could
> > > > >> > be
> > > > >> > >>> > better separated into API vs. implementations (similar to
> > say
> > > > >> Log4J
> > > > >> > 2;-)
> > > > >> > >>> > and something notably absent is the concept of "Stage" or
> > > > >> > >>> "Environment". In
> > > > >> > >>> > theory the 2 projects could explore synergies making
> Tamaya
> > > the
> > > > >> > "Cloud
> > > > >> > >>> > Enabler" for some of the core concepts that look fairly
> neat
> > > in
> > > > >> > Commons
> > > > >> > >>> > Config 2 (I worked with V1 in a few projects, it was a bit
> > > > complex
> > > > >> > but
> > > > >> > >>> > doable)
> > > > >> > >>> >
> > > > >> > >>> > Werner
> > > > >> > >>> >
> > > > >> > >>> > On Thu, Dec 4, 2014 at 3:45 PM, Werner Keil <
> > > > >> werner.keil@gmail.com>
> > > > >> > >>> wrote:
> > > > >> > >>> >
> > > > >> > >>> >> Hi,
> > > > >> > >>> >>
> > > > >> > >>> >> Probably more important than config subsystems in JSR 107
> > or
> > > > >> Log4J 2
> > > > >> > >>> >> (though it altogether got a really good rewrite making
> any
> > > > effort
> > > > >> > for a
> > > > >> > >>> >> "Logging JSR" by some people almost pointless;-) seems a
> > > > massive
> > > > >> > >>> redesign
> > > > >> > >>> >> and recent activity of Apache Commons Logging 2:
> > > > >> > >>> >>
> > > > >> http://commons.apache.org/proper/commons-configuration/index.html
> > > > >> > >>> >>
> > > > >> > >>> >> Anybody had a look at that?
> > > > >> > >>> >>
> > > > >> > >>> >> Apache certainly has a very multicultural ecosystem, look
> > at
> > > > >> Struts
> > > > >> > vs.
> > > > >> > >>> >> OpenFaces vs. Wicket vs. Tapestry and who knows how many
> > (Web
> > > > >> MVC)
> > > > >> > >>> projects
> > > > >> > >>> >> all exist, so why not have at least 2 or 3 for
> > configuration.
> > > > >> > >>> >>
> > > > >> > >>> >> Something noteworthy is, that Commons Configuration 2
> > > refrains
> > > > >> from
> > > > >> > any
> > > > >> > >>> >> static factory.
> > > > >> > >>> >> Even a class sounding like it was static such as
> > > Configurations
> > > > >> (in
> > > > >> > a
> > > > >> > >>> new
> > > > >> > >>> >> "fluent" package) works like this:
> > > > >> > >>> >>  Configurations configurations = new Configurations();
> > > > >> > >>> >> PropertiesConfiguration config =
> > > configurations.properties(new
> > > > >> File(
> > > > >> > >>> >>          "config.properties"));
> > > > >> > >>> >>
> > > > >> > >>> >> Werner
> > > > >> > >>> >>
> > > > >> > >>> >>
> > > > >> > >>> >>
> > > > >> > >>> >>
> > > > >> > >>>
> > > > >> > >>
> > > > >> > >>
> > > > >> >
> > > > >>
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > *Anatole Tresch*
> > > Java Engineer & Architect, JSR Spec Lead
> > > Glärnischweg 10
> > > CH - 8620 Wetzikon
> > >
> > > *Switzerland, Europe Zurich, GMT+1*
> > > *Twitter:  @atsticks*
> > > *Blogs: **http://javaremarkables.blogspot.ch/
> > > <http://javaremarkables.blogspot.ch/>*
> > >
> > > *Google: atsticksMobile  +41-76 344 62 79*
> > >
> >
>

Re: Commons Config 2

Posted by Gerhard Petracek <ge...@gmail.com>.
@werner:
please don't get it wrong, but if you don't like something - just tell it
- intimations don't help a lot.
afaik we aren't in a rush and therefore we can just benefit from discussing
and reviewing topics step by step.

regards,
gerhard



2014-12-04 16:49 GMT+01:00 Werner Keil <we...@gmail.com>:

> About Commons Config, I am not sure, if he's still involved, but given Geir
> was also elected into the JCP EC I should be able to chat with him about it
> during upcoming F2F meeting like the one in January. He was a committer to
> Commons Config 1, but no longer seems to contribute there now.
>
> Werner
>
> On Thu, Dec 4, 2014 at 4:43 PM, Anatole Tresch <at...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Hi all
> >
> > please just try to be polite to each other. Most important thing is: edit
> > the subject before sending a new topic, so a new thread is opened, and
> yes
> > ensure not more than 2-3 threads are running in parallel ;). Currently it
> > is really a mess. Basically we discuss 2 things as of now, and I suggest
> to
> > postpone other topics a bit, so we keep control...
> >
> > -Anatole
> >
> >
> > 2014-12-04 16:31 GMT+01:00 Werner Keil <we...@gmail.com>:
> >
> > > You may have noticed, the very important "annot" point was also "bent"
> > > beyond recognition with other sometimes random topics. Maybe somebody
> > > should simply have created a separate thread or replied elsewhere;-)
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Thu, Dec 4, 2014 at 4:29 PM, Werner Keil <we...@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > > Well there are replies to good to know fact that Commons Config is
> > "alive
> > > > and kicking" (based on the project page and recent activity) that
> > should
> > > > not belong to this thread.
> > > >
> > > > @Romain, others please discuss things like stage, etc. it in other
> > > > threads;-)
> > > >
> > > > Thanks,
> > > > Werner
> > > >
> > > > On Thu, Dec 4, 2014 at 4:24 PM, Gerhard Petracek <
> > > > gerhard.petracek@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > >
> > > >> @werner:
> > > >> we already have important and ongoing discussions in other threads
> > > >> (starting step by step).
> > > >> imo it doesn't make sense to start new threads about "random" topics
> > > which
> > > >> will be discussed later on (once they are due).
> > > >>
> > > >> regards,
> > > >> gerhard
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> 2014-12-04 16:16 GMT+01:00 Romain Manni-Bucau <
> rmannibucau@gmail.com
> > >:
> > > >>
> > > >> > there are stages in jsf, deltaspike, spring and several other
> libs.
> > In
> > > >> > practise a system property is also ofnte used and enough for the
> > > >> > config:
> > > >> >
> > > >> > Configuration.fromPaths("/foo/bar/" +
> > > >> > System.getProperty("myapp.stage", "prod") + "-config.properties);
> > > >> >
> > > >> >
> > > >> > Environment would make sense only when we'll support distribution
> > > >> > which is far to be the case so we can maybe drop it for now.
> > > >> >
> > > >> >
> > > >> >
> > > >> >
> > > >> > Romain Manni-Bucau
> > > >> > @rmannibucau
> > > >> > http://www.tomitribe.com
> > > >> > http://rmannibucau.wordpress.com
> > > >> > https://github.com/rmannibucau
> > > >> >
> > > >> >
> > > >> > 2014-12-04 16:11 GMT+01:00 Werner Keil <we...@gmail.com>:
> > > >> > > One could merge *Stage *and *Environment*, see Multiconf, but
> > > abusing
> > > >> > *Stage
> > > >> > > *to model *Environment *seems rather pointless.
> > > >> > >
> > > >> > > Werner
> > > >> > >
> > > >> > > On Thu, Dec 4, 2014 at 4:09 PM, Werner Keil <
> > werner.keil@gmail.com>
> > > >> > wrote:
> > > >> > >
> > > >> > >> >About stage: we have enough stage outside tje config to use it
> > > >> without
> > > >> > >> What do you mean here, the totally inadequate ProjectStage enum
> > in
> > > >> > JSF?;-)
> > > >> > >>
> > > >> > >> IMHO at least the notion of Environment should be present,
> > > otherwise
> > > >> > >> multi-tenancy or "Cloud" support that Java EE keeps babbling
> > about
> > > >> ever
> > > >> > >> since at least EE 7 will remain the same joke and empty phrase
> in
> > > >> > Tamaya as
> > > >> > >> it does there (or in the PR of most large companies including
> > > >> Oracle;-D)
> > > >> > >>
> > > >> > >> Werner Keil | JCP Executive Committee Member, JSR 363 Co Spec
> > Lead
> > > |
> > > >> > >> Eclipse UOMo Lead, Babel Language Champion | Apache Committer |
> > > >> Advisory
> > > >> > >> Board Member, DWX '15
> > > >> > >>
> > > >> > >> Twitter @wernerkeil | @UnitAPI | @JSR354 | @AgoravaProj |
> > > @DeviceMap
> > > >> |
> > > >> > #EclipseUOMo
> > > >> > >> | #DevOps
> > > >> > >> Skype werner.keil | Google+ gplus.to/wernerkeil
> > > >> > >>
> > > >> > >> On Thu, Dec 4, 2014 at 4:02 PM, Romain Manni-Bucau <
> > > >> > rmannibucau@gmail.com>
> > > >> > >> wrote:
> > > >> > >>
> > > >> > >>> About stage: we have enough stage outside tje config to use it
> > > >> without
> > > >> > >>> any issue or code to write with [configuration].
> > > >> > >>> About Environment: not a strong requirement in enough cases to
> > not
> > > >> be
> > > >> > >>> present by default.
> > > >> > >>>
> > > >> > >>> We could surely use [configuration] in our impl pretty easily
> > (in
> > > a
> > > >> > >>> format/reader depending where we finish)
> > > >> > >>>
> > > >> > >>>
> > > >> > >>> Romain Manni-Bucau
> > > >> > >>> @rmannibucau
> > > >> > >>> http://www.tomitribe.com
> > > >> > >>> http://rmannibucau.wordpress.com
> > > >> > >>> https://github.com/rmannibucau
> > > >> > >>>
> > > >> > >>>
> > > >> > >>> 2014-12-04 15:52 GMT+01:00 Werner Keil <werner.keil@gmail.com
> >:
> > > >> > >>> > After a brief but slightly deeper look at Commons Config 2,
> it
> > > >> could
> > > >> > be
> > > >> > >>> > better separated into API vs. implementations (similar to
> say
> > > >> Log4J
> > > >> > 2;-)
> > > >> > >>> > and something notably absent is the concept of "Stage" or
> > > >> > >>> "Environment". In
> > > >> > >>> > theory the 2 projects could explore synergies making Tamaya
> > the
> > > >> > "Cloud
> > > >> > >>> > Enabler" for some of the core concepts that look fairly neat
> > in
> > > >> > Commons
> > > >> > >>> > Config 2 (I worked with V1 in a few projects, it was a bit
> > > complex
> > > >> > but
> > > >> > >>> > doable)
> > > >> > >>> >
> > > >> > >>> > Werner
> > > >> > >>> >
> > > >> > >>> > On Thu, Dec 4, 2014 at 3:45 PM, Werner Keil <
> > > >> werner.keil@gmail.com>
> > > >> > >>> wrote:
> > > >> > >>> >
> > > >> > >>> >> Hi,
> > > >> > >>> >>
> > > >> > >>> >> Probably more important than config subsystems in JSR 107
> or
> > > >> Log4J 2
> > > >> > >>> >> (though it altogether got a really good rewrite making any
> > > effort
> > > >> > for a
> > > >> > >>> >> "Logging JSR" by some people almost pointless;-) seems a
> > > massive
> > > >> > >>> redesign
> > > >> > >>> >> and recent activity of Apache Commons Logging 2:
> > > >> > >>> >>
> > > >> http://commons.apache.org/proper/commons-configuration/index.html
> > > >> > >>> >>
> > > >> > >>> >> Anybody had a look at that?
> > > >> > >>> >>
> > > >> > >>> >> Apache certainly has a very multicultural ecosystem, look
> at
> > > >> Struts
> > > >> > vs.
> > > >> > >>> >> OpenFaces vs. Wicket vs. Tapestry and who knows how many
> (Web
> > > >> MVC)
> > > >> > >>> projects
> > > >> > >>> >> all exist, so why not have at least 2 or 3 for
> configuration.
> > > >> > >>> >>
> > > >> > >>> >> Something noteworthy is, that Commons Configuration 2
> > refrains
> > > >> from
> > > >> > any
> > > >> > >>> >> static factory.
> > > >> > >>> >> Even a class sounding like it was static such as
> > Configurations
> > > >> (in
> > > >> > a
> > > >> > >>> new
> > > >> > >>> >> "fluent" package) works like this:
> > > >> > >>> >>  Configurations configurations = new Configurations();
> > > >> > >>> >> PropertiesConfiguration config =
> > configurations.properties(new
> > > >> File(
> > > >> > >>> >>          "config.properties"));
> > > >> > >>> >>
> > > >> > >>> >> Werner
> > > >> > >>> >>
> > > >> > >>> >>
> > > >> > >>> >>
> > > >> > >>> >>
> > > >> > >>>
> > > >> > >>
> > > >> > >>
> > > >> >
> > > >>
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > *Anatole Tresch*
> > Java Engineer & Architect, JSR Spec Lead
> > Glärnischweg 10
> > CH - 8620 Wetzikon
> >
> > *Switzerland, Europe Zurich, GMT+1*
> > *Twitter:  @atsticks*
> > *Blogs: **http://javaremarkables.blogspot.ch/
> > <http://javaremarkables.blogspot.ch/>*
> >
> > *Google: atsticksMobile  +41-76 344 62 79*
> >
>

Re: Commons Config 2

Posted by Werner Keil <we...@gmail.com>.
About Commons Config, I am not sure, if he's still involved, but given Geir
was also elected into the JCP EC I should be able to chat with him about it
during upcoming F2F meeting like the one in January. He was a committer to
Commons Config 1, but no longer seems to contribute there now.

Werner

On Thu, Dec 4, 2014 at 4:43 PM, Anatole Tresch <at...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi all
>
> please just try to be polite to each other. Most important thing is: edit
> the subject before sending a new topic, so a new thread is opened, and yes
> ensure not more than 2-3 threads are running in parallel ;). Currently it
> is really a mess. Basically we discuss 2 things as of now, and I suggest to
> postpone other topics a bit, so we keep control...
>
> -Anatole
>
>
> 2014-12-04 16:31 GMT+01:00 Werner Keil <we...@gmail.com>:
>
> > You may have noticed, the very important "annot" point was also "bent"
> > beyond recognition with other sometimes random topics. Maybe somebody
> > should simply have created a separate thread or replied elsewhere;-)
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Thu, Dec 4, 2014 at 4:29 PM, Werner Keil <we...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >
> > > Well there are replies to good to know fact that Commons Config is
> "alive
> > > and kicking" (based on the project page and recent activity) that
> should
> > > not belong to this thread.
> > >
> > > @Romain, others please discuss things like stage, etc. it in other
> > > threads;-)
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > > Werner
> > >
> > > On Thu, Dec 4, 2014 at 4:24 PM, Gerhard Petracek <
> > > gerhard.petracek@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > >> @werner:
> > >> we already have important and ongoing discussions in other threads
> > >> (starting step by step).
> > >> imo it doesn't make sense to start new threads about "random" topics
> > which
> > >> will be discussed later on (once they are due).
> > >>
> > >> regards,
> > >> gerhard
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> 2014-12-04 16:16 GMT+01:00 Romain Manni-Bucau <rmannibucau@gmail.com
> >:
> > >>
> > >> > there are stages in jsf, deltaspike, spring and several other libs.
> In
> > >> > practise a system property is also ofnte used and enough for the
> > >> > config:
> > >> >
> > >> > Configuration.fromPaths("/foo/bar/" +
> > >> > System.getProperty("myapp.stage", "prod") + "-config.properties);
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> > Environment would make sense only when we'll support distribution
> > >> > which is far to be the case so we can maybe drop it for now.
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> > Romain Manni-Bucau
> > >> > @rmannibucau
> > >> > http://www.tomitribe.com
> > >> > http://rmannibucau.wordpress.com
> > >> > https://github.com/rmannibucau
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> > 2014-12-04 16:11 GMT+01:00 Werner Keil <we...@gmail.com>:
> > >> > > One could merge *Stage *and *Environment*, see Multiconf, but
> > abusing
> > >> > *Stage
> > >> > > *to model *Environment *seems rather pointless.
> > >> > >
> > >> > > Werner
> > >> > >
> > >> > > On Thu, Dec 4, 2014 at 4:09 PM, Werner Keil <
> werner.keil@gmail.com>
> > >> > wrote:
> > >> > >
> > >> > >> >About stage: we have enough stage outside tje config to use it
> > >> without
> > >> > >> What do you mean here, the totally inadequate ProjectStage enum
> in
> > >> > JSF?;-)
> > >> > >>
> > >> > >> IMHO at least the notion of Environment should be present,
> > otherwise
> > >> > >> multi-tenancy or "Cloud" support that Java EE keeps babbling
> about
> > >> ever
> > >> > >> since at least EE 7 will remain the same joke and empty phrase in
> > >> > Tamaya as
> > >> > >> it does there (or in the PR of most large companies including
> > >> Oracle;-D)
> > >> > >>
> > >> > >> Werner Keil | JCP Executive Committee Member, JSR 363 Co Spec
> Lead
> > |
> > >> > >> Eclipse UOMo Lead, Babel Language Champion | Apache Committer |
> > >> Advisory
> > >> > >> Board Member, DWX '15
> > >> > >>
> > >> > >> Twitter @wernerkeil | @UnitAPI | @JSR354 | @AgoravaProj |
> > @DeviceMap
> > >> |
> > >> > #EclipseUOMo
> > >> > >> | #DevOps
> > >> > >> Skype werner.keil | Google+ gplus.to/wernerkeil
> > >> > >>
> > >> > >> On Thu, Dec 4, 2014 at 4:02 PM, Romain Manni-Bucau <
> > >> > rmannibucau@gmail.com>
> > >> > >> wrote:
> > >> > >>
> > >> > >>> About stage: we have enough stage outside tje config to use it
> > >> without
> > >> > >>> any issue or code to write with [configuration].
> > >> > >>> About Environment: not a strong requirement in enough cases to
> not
> > >> be
> > >> > >>> present by default.
> > >> > >>>
> > >> > >>> We could surely use [configuration] in our impl pretty easily
> (in
> > a
> > >> > >>> format/reader depending where we finish)
> > >> > >>>
> > >> > >>>
> > >> > >>> Romain Manni-Bucau
> > >> > >>> @rmannibucau
> > >> > >>> http://www.tomitribe.com
> > >> > >>> http://rmannibucau.wordpress.com
> > >> > >>> https://github.com/rmannibucau
> > >> > >>>
> > >> > >>>
> > >> > >>> 2014-12-04 15:52 GMT+01:00 Werner Keil <we...@gmail.com>:
> > >> > >>> > After a brief but slightly deeper look at Commons Config 2, it
> > >> could
> > >> > be
> > >> > >>> > better separated into API vs. implementations (similar to say
> > >> Log4J
> > >> > 2;-)
> > >> > >>> > and something notably absent is the concept of "Stage" or
> > >> > >>> "Environment". In
> > >> > >>> > theory the 2 projects could explore synergies making Tamaya
> the
> > >> > "Cloud
> > >> > >>> > Enabler" for some of the core concepts that look fairly neat
> in
> > >> > Commons
> > >> > >>> > Config 2 (I worked with V1 in a few projects, it was a bit
> > complex
> > >> > but
> > >> > >>> > doable)
> > >> > >>> >
> > >> > >>> > Werner
> > >> > >>> >
> > >> > >>> > On Thu, Dec 4, 2014 at 3:45 PM, Werner Keil <
> > >> werner.keil@gmail.com>
> > >> > >>> wrote:
> > >> > >>> >
> > >> > >>> >> Hi,
> > >> > >>> >>
> > >> > >>> >> Probably more important than config subsystems in JSR 107 or
> > >> Log4J 2
> > >> > >>> >> (though it altogether got a really good rewrite making any
> > effort
> > >> > for a
> > >> > >>> >> "Logging JSR" by some people almost pointless;-) seems a
> > massive
> > >> > >>> redesign
> > >> > >>> >> and recent activity of Apache Commons Logging 2:
> > >> > >>> >>
> > >> http://commons.apache.org/proper/commons-configuration/index.html
> > >> > >>> >>
> > >> > >>> >> Anybody had a look at that?
> > >> > >>> >>
> > >> > >>> >> Apache certainly has a very multicultural ecosystem, look at
> > >> Struts
> > >> > vs.
> > >> > >>> >> OpenFaces vs. Wicket vs. Tapestry and who knows how many (Web
> > >> MVC)
> > >> > >>> projects
> > >> > >>> >> all exist, so why not have at least 2 or 3 for configuration.
> > >> > >>> >>
> > >> > >>> >> Something noteworthy is, that Commons Configuration 2
> refrains
> > >> from
> > >> > any
> > >> > >>> >> static factory.
> > >> > >>> >> Even a class sounding like it was static such as
> Configurations
> > >> (in
> > >> > a
> > >> > >>> new
> > >> > >>> >> "fluent" package) works like this:
> > >> > >>> >>  Configurations configurations = new Configurations();
> > >> > >>> >> PropertiesConfiguration config =
> configurations.properties(new
> > >> File(
> > >> > >>> >>          "config.properties"));
> > >> > >>> >>
> > >> > >>> >> Werner
> > >> > >>> >>
> > >> > >>> >>
> > >> > >>> >>
> > >> > >>> >>
> > >> > >>>
> > >> > >>
> > >> > >>
> > >> >
> > >>
> > >
> > >
> >
>
>
>
> --
> *Anatole Tresch*
> Java Engineer & Architect, JSR Spec Lead
> Glärnischweg 10
> CH - 8620 Wetzikon
>
> *Switzerland, Europe Zurich, GMT+1*
> *Twitter:  @atsticks*
> *Blogs: **http://javaremarkables.blogspot.ch/
> <http://javaremarkables.blogspot.ch/>*
>
> *Google: atsticksMobile  +41-76 344 62 79*
>

Re: Commons Config 2

Posted by Anatole Tresch <at...@gmail.com>.
Hi all

please just try to be polite to each other. Most important thing is: edit
the subject before sending a new topic, so a new thread is opened, and yes
ensure not more than 2-3 threads are running in parallel ;). Currently it
is really a mess. Basically we discuss 2 things as of now, and I suggest to
postpone other topics a bit, so we keep control...

-Anatole


2014-12-04 16:31 GMT+01:00 Werner Keil <we...@gmail.com>:

> You may have noticed, the very important "annot" point was also "bent"
> beyond recognition with other sometimes random topics. Maybe somebody
> should simply have created a separate thread or replied elsewhere;-)
>
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, Dec 4, 2014 at 4:29 PM, Werner Keil <we...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Well there are replies to good to know fact that Commons Config is "alive
> > and kicking" (based on the project page and recent activity) that should
> > not belong to this thread.
> >
> > @Romain, others please discuss things like stage, etc. it in other
> > threads;-)
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Werner
> >
> > On Thu, Dec 4, 2014 at 4:24 PM, Gerhard Petracek <
> > gerhard.petracek@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> @werner:
> >> we already have important and ongoing discussions in other threads
> >> (starting step by step).
> >> imo it doesn't make sense to start new threads about "random" topics
> which
> >> will be discussed later on (once they are due).
> >>
> >> regards,
> >> gerhard
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> 2014-12-04 16:16 GMT+01:00 Romain Manni-Bucau <rm...@gmail.com>:
> >>
> >> > there are stages in jsf, deltaspike, spring and several other libs. In
> >> > practise a system property is also ofnte used and enough for the
> >> > config:
> >> >
> >> > Configuration.fromPaths("/foo/bar/" +
> >> > System.getProperty("myapp.stage", "prod") + "-config.properties);
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > Environment would make sense only when we'll support distribution
> >> > which is far to be the case so we can maybe drop it for now.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > Romain Manni-Bucau
> >> > @rmannibucau
> >> > http://www.tomitribe.com
> >> > http://rmannibucau.wordpress.com
> >> > https://github.com/rmannibucau
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > 2014-12-04 16:11 GMT+01:00 Werner Keil <we...@gmail.com>:
> >> > > One could merge *Stage *and *Environment*, see Multiconf, but
> abusing
> >> > *Stage
> >> > > *to model *Environment *seems rather pointless.
> >> > >
> >> > > Werner
> >> > >
> >> > > On Thu, Dec 4, 2014 at 4:09 PM, Werner Keil <we...@gmail.com>
> >> > wrote:
> >> > >
> >> > >> >About stage: we have enough stage outside tje config to use it
> >> without
> >> > >> What do you mean here, the totally inadequate ProjectStage enum in
> >> > JSF?;-)
> >> > >>
> >> > >> IMHO at least the notion of Environment should be present,
> otherwise
> >> > >> multi-tenancy or "Cloud" support that Java EE keeps babbling about
> >> ever
> >> > >> since at least EE 7 will remain the same joke and empty phrase in
> >> > Tamaya as
> >> > >> it does there (or in the PR of most large companies including
> >> Oracle;-D)
> >> > >>
> >> > >> Werner Keil | JCP Executive Committee Member, JSR 363 Co Spec Lead
> |
> >> > >> Eclipse UOMo Lead, Babel Language Champion | Apache Committer |
> >> Advisory
> >> > >> Board Member, DWX '15
> >> > >>
> >> > >> Twitter @wernerkeil | @UnitAPI | @JSR354 | @AgoravaProj |
> @DeviceMap
> >> |
> >> > #EclipseUOMo
> >> > >> | #DevOps
> >> > >> Skype werner.keil | Google+ gplus.to/wernerkeil
> >> > >>
> >> > >> On Thu, Dec 4, 2014 at 4:02 PM, Romain Manni-Bucau <
> >> > rmannibucau@gmail.com>
> >> > >> wrote:
> >> > >>
> >> > >>> About stage: we have enough stage outside tje config to use it
> >> without
> >> > >>> any issue or code to write with [configuration].
> >> > >>> About Environment: not a strong requirement in enough cases to not
> >> be
> >> > >>> present by default.
> >> > >>>
> >> > >>> We could surely use [configuration] in our impl pretty easily (in
> a
> >> > >>> format/reader depending where we finish)
> >> > >>>
> >> > >>>
> >> > >>> Romain Manni-Bucau
> >> > >>> @rmannibucau
> >> > >>> http://www.tomitribe.com
> >> > >>> http://rmannibucau.wordpress.com
> >> > >>> https://github.com/rmannibucau
> >> > >>>
> >> > >>>
> >> > >>> 2014-12-04 15:52 GMT+01:00 Werner Keil <we...@gmail.com>:
> >> > >>> > After a brief but slightly deeper look at Commons Config 2, it
> >> could
> >> > be
> >> > >>> > better separated into API vs. implementations (similar to say
> >> Log4J
> >> > 2;-)
> >> > >>> > and something notably absent is the concept of "Stage" or
> >> > >>> "Environment". In
> >> > >>> > theory the 2 projects could explore synergies making Tamaya the
> >> > "Cloud
> >> > >>> > Enabler" for some of the core concepts that look fairly neat in
> >> > Commons
> >> > >>> > Config 2 (I worked with V1 in a few projects, it was a bit
> complex
> >> > but
> >> > >>> > doable)
> >> > >>> >
> >> > >>> > Werner
> >> > >>> >
> >> > >>> > On Thu, Dec 4, 2014 at 3:45 PM, Werner Keil <
> >> werner.keil@gmail.com>
> >> > >>> wrote:
> >> > >>> >
> >> > >>> >> Hi,
> >> > >>> >>
> >> > >>> >> Probably more important than config subsystems in JSR 107 or
> >> Log4J 2
> >> > >>> >> (though it altogether got a really good rewrite making any
> effort
> >> > for a
> >> > >>> >> "Logging JSR" by some people almost pointless;-) seems a
> massive
> >> > >>> redesign
> >> > >>> >> and recent activity of Apache Commons Logging 2:
> >> > >>> >>
> >> http://commons.apache.org/proper/commons-configuration/index.html
> >> > >>> >>
> >> > >>> >> Anybody had a look at that?
> >> > >>> >>
> >> > >>> >> Apache certainly has a very multicultural ecosystem, look at
> >> Struts
> >> > vs.
> >> > >>> >> OpenFaces vs. Wicket vs. Tapestry and who knows how many (Web
> >> MVC)
> >> > >>> projects
> >> > >>> >> all exist, so why not have at least 2 or 3 for configuration.
> >> > >>> >>
> >> > >>> >> Something noteworthy is, that Commons Configuration 2 refrains
> >> from
> >> > any
> >> > >>> >> static factory.
> >> > >>> >> Even a class sounding like it was static such as Configurations
> >> (in
> >> > a
> >> > >>> new
> >> > >>> >> "fluent" package) works like this:
> >> > >>> >>  Configurations configurations = new Configurations();
> >> > >>> >> PropertiesConfiguration config = configurations.properties(new
> >> File(
> >> > >>> >>          "config.properties"));
> >> > >>> >>
> >> > >>> >> Werner
> >> > >>> >>
> >> > >>> >>
> >> > >>> >>
> >> > >>> >>
> >> > >>>
> >> > >>
> >> > >>
> >> >
> >>
> >
> >
>



-- 
*Anatole Tresch*
Java Engineer & Architect, JSR Spec Lead
Glärnischweg 10
CH - 8620 Wetzikon

*Switzerland, Europe Zurich, GMT+1*
*Twitter:  @atsticks*
*Blogs: **http://javaremarkables.blogspot.ch/
<http://javaremarkables.blogspot.ch/>*

*Google: atsticksMobile  +41-76 344 62 79*

Re: Commons Config 2

Posted by Werner Keil <we...@gmail.com>.
You may have noticed, the very important "annot" point was also "bent"
beyond recognition with other sometimes random topics. Maybe somebody
should simply have created a separate thread or replied elsewhere;-)





On Thu, Dec 4, 2014 at 4:29 PM, Werner Keil <we...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Well there are replies to good to know fact that Commons Config is "alive
> and kicking" (based on the project page and recent activity) that should
> not belong to this thread.
>
> @Romain, others please discuss things like stage, etc. it in other
> threads;-)
>
> Thanks,
> Werner
>
> On Thu, Dec 4, 2014 at 4:24 PM, Gerhard Petracek <
> gerhard.petracek@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> @werner:
>> we already have important and ongoing discussions in other threads
>> (starting step by step).
>> imo it doesn't make sense to start new threads about "random" topics which
>> will be discussed later on (once they are due).
>>
>> regards,
>> gerhard
>>
>>
>>
>> 2014-12-04 16:16 GMT+01:00 Romain Manni-Bucau <rm...@gmail.com>:
>>
>> > there are stages in jsf, deltaspike, spring and several other libs. In
>> > practise a system property is also ofnte used and enough for the
>> > config:
>> >
>> > Configuration.fromPaths("/foo/bar/" +
>> > System.getProperty("myapp.stage", "prod") + "-config.properties);
>> >
>> >
>> > Environment would make sense only when we'll support distribution
>> > which is far to be the case so we can maybe drop it for now.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Romain Manni-Bucau
>> > @rmannibucau
>> > http://www.tomitribe.com
>> > http://rmannibucau.wordpress.com
>> > https://github.com/rmannibucau
>> >
>> >
>> > 2014-12-04 16:11 GMT+01:00 Werner Keil <we...@gmail.com>:
>> > > One could merge *Stage *and *Environment*, see Multiconf, but abusing
>> > *Stage
>> > > *to model *Environment *seems rather pointless.
>> > >
>> > > Werner
>> > >
>> > > On Thu, Dec 4, 2014 at 4:09 PM, Werner Keil <we...@gmail.com>
>> > wrote:
>> > >
>> > >> >About stage: we have enough stage outside tje config to use it
>> without
>> > >> What do you mean here, the totally inadequate ProjectStage enum in
>> > JSF?;-)
>> > >>
>> > >> IMHO at least the notion of Environment should be present, otherwise
>> > >> multi-tenancy or "Cloud" support that Java EE keeps babbling about
>> ever
>> > >> since at least EE 7 will remain the same joke and empty phrase in
>> > Tamaya as
>> > >> it does there (or in the PR of most large companies including
>> Oracle;-D)
>> > >>
>> > >> Werner Keil | JCP Executive Committee Member, JSR 363 Co Spec Lead |
>> > >> Eclipse UOMo Lead, Babel Language Champion | Apache Committer |
>> Advisory
>> > >> Board Member, DWX '15
>> > >>
>> > >> Twitter @wernerkeil | @UnitAPI | @JSR354 | @AgoravaProj | @DeviceMap
>> |
>> > #EclipseUOMo
>> > >> | #DevOps
>> > >> Skype werner.keil | Google+ gplus.to/wernerkeil
>> > >>
>> > >> On Thu, Dec 4, 2014 at 4:02 PM, Romain Manni-Bucau <
>> > rmannibucau@gmail.com>
>> > >> wrote:
>> > >>
>> > >>> About stage: we have enough stage outside tje config to use it
>> without
>> > >>> any issue or code to write with [configuration].
>> > >>> About Environment: not a strong requirement in enough cases to not
>> be
>> > >>> present by default.
>> > >>>
>> > >>> We could surely use [configuration] in our impl pretty easily (in a
>> > >>> format/reader depending where we finish)
>> > >>>
>> > >>>
>> > >>> Romain Manni-Bucau
>> > >>> @rmannibucau
>> > >>> http://www.tomitribe.com
>> > >>> http://rmannibucau.wordpress.com
>> > >>> https://github.com/rmannibucau
>> > >>>
>> > >>>
>> > >>> 2014-12-04 15:52 GMT+01:00 Werner Keil <we...@gmail.com>:
>> > >>> > After a brief but slightly deeper look at Commons Config 2, it
>> could
>> > be
>> > >>> > better separated into API vs. implementations (similar to say
>> Log4J
>> > 2;-)
>> > >>> > and something notably absent is the concept of "Stage" or
>> > >>> "Environment". In
>> > >>> > theory the 2 projects could explore synergies making Tamaya the
>> > "Cloud
>> > >>> > Enabler" for some of the core concepts that look fairly neat in
>> > Commons
>> > >>> > Config 2 (I worked with V1 in a few projects, it was a bit complex
>> > but
>> > >>> > doable)
>> > >>> >
>> > >>> > Werner
>> > >>> >
>> > >>> > On Thu, Dec 4, 2014 at 3:45 PM, Werner Keil <
>> werner.keil@gmail.com>
>> > >>> wrote:
>> > >>> >
>> > >>> >> Hi,
>> > >>> >>
>> > >>> >> Probably more important than config subsystems in JSR 107 or
>> Log4J 2
>> > >>> >> (though it altogether got a really good rewrite making any effort
>> > for a
>> > >>> >> "Logging JSR" by some people almost pointless;-) seems a massive
>> > >>> redesign
>> > >>> >> and recent activity of Apache Commons Logging 2:
>> > >>> >>
>> http://commons.apache.org/proper/commons-configuration/index.html
>> > >>> >>
>> > >>> >> Anybody had a look at that?
>> > >>> >>
>> > >>> >> Apache certainly has a very multicultural ecosystem, look at
>> Struts
>> > vs.
>> > >>> >> OpenFaces vs. Wicket vs. Tapestry and who knows how many (Web
>> MVC)
>> > >>> projects
>> > >>> >> all exist, so why not have at least 2 or 3 for configuration.
>> > >>> >>
>> > >>> >> Something noteworthy is, that Commons Configuration 2 refrains
>> from
>> > any
>> > >>> >> static factory.
>> > >>> >> Even a class sounding like it was static such as Configurations
>> (in
>> > a
>> > >>> new
>> > >>> >> "fluent" package) works like this:
>> > >>> >>  Configurations configurations = new Configurations();
>> > >>> >> PropertiesConfiguration config = configurations.properties(new
>> File(
>> > >>> >>          "config.properties"));
>> > >>> >>
>> > >>> >> Werner
>> > >>> >>
>> > >>> >>
>> > >>> >>
>> > >>> >>
>> > >>>
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> >
>>
>
>

Re: Commons Config 2

Posted by Werner Keil <we...@gmail.com>.
Well there are replies to good to know fact that Commons Config is "alive
and kicking" (based on the project page and recent activity) that should
not belong to this thread.

@Romain, others please discuss things like stage, etc. it in other
threads;-)

Thanks,
Werner

On Thu, Dec 4, 2014 at 4:24 PM, Gerhard Petracek <gerhard.petracek@gmail.com
> wrote:

> @werner:
> we already have important and ongoing discussions in other threads
> (starting step by step).
> imo it doesn't make sense to start new threads about "random" topics which
> will be discussed later on (once they are due).
>
> regards,
> gerhard
>
>
>
> 2014-12-04 16:16 GMT+01:00 Romain Manni-Bucau <rm...@gmail.com>:
>
> > there are stages in jsf, deltaspike, spring and several other libs. In
> > practise a system property is also ofnte used and enough for the
> > config:
> >
> > Configuration.fromPaths("/foo/bar/" +
> > System.getProperty("myapp.stage", "prod") + "-config.properties);
> >
> >
> > Environment would make sense only when we'll support distribution
> > which is far to be the case so we can maybe drop it for now.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Romain Manni-Bucau
> > @rmannibucau
> > http://www.tomitribe.com
> > http://rmannibucau.wordpress.com
> > https://github.com/rmannibucau
> >
> >
> > 2014-12-04 16:11 GMT+01:00 Werner Keil <we...@gmail.com>:
> > > One could merge *Stage *and *Environment*, see Multiconf, but abusing
> > *Stage
> > > *to model *Environment *seems rather pointless.
> > >
> > > Werner
> > >
> > > On Thu, Dec 4, 2014 at 4:09 PM, Werner Keil <we...@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > >> >About stage: we have enough stage outside tje config to use it
> without
> > >> What do you mean here, the totally inadequate ProjectStage enum in
> > JSF?;-)
> > >>
> > >> IMHO at least the notion of Environment should be present, otherwise
> > >> multi-tenancy or "Cloud" support that Java EE keeps babbling about
> ever
> > >> since at least EE 7 will remain the same joke and empty phrase in
> > Tamaya as
> > >> it does there (or in the PR of most large companies including
> Oracle;-D)
> > >>
> > >> Werner Keil | JCP Executive Committee Member, JSR 363 Co Spec Lead |
> > >> Eclipse UOMo Lead, Babel Language Champion | Apache Committer |
> Advisory
> > >> Board Member, DWX '15
> > >>
> > >> Twitter @wernerkeil | @UnitAPI | @JSR354 | @AgoravaProj | @DeviceMap |
> > #EclipseUOMo
> > >> | #DevOps
> > >> Skype werner.keil | Google+ gplus.to/wernerkeil
> > >>
> > >> On Thu, Dec 4, 2014 at 4:02 PM, Romain Manni-Bucau <
> > rmannibucau@gmail.com>
> > >> wrote:
> > >>
> > >>> About stage: we have enough stage outside tje config to use it
> without
> > >>> any issue or code to write with [configuration].
> > >>> About Environment: not a strong requirement in enough cases to not be
> > >>> present by default.
> > >>>
> > >>> We could surely use [configuration] in our impl pretty easily (in a
> > >>> format/reader depending where we finish)
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> Romain Manni-Bucau
> > >>> @rmannibucau
> > >>> http://www.tomitribe.com
> > >>> http://rmannibucau.wordpress.com
> > >>> https://github.com/rmannibucau
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> 2014-12-04 15:52 GMT+01:00 Werner Keil <we...@gmail.com>:
> > >>> > After a brief but slightly deeper look at Commons Config 2, it
> could
> > be
> > >>> > better separated into API vs. implementations (similar to say Log4J
> > 2;-)
> > >>> > and something notably absent is the concept of "Stage" or
> > >>> "Environment". In
> > >>> > theory the 2 projects could explore synergies making Tamaya the
> > "Cloud
> > >>> > Enabler" for some of the core concepts that look fairly neat in
> > Commons
> > >>> > Config 2 (I worked with V1 in a few projects, it was a bit complex
> > but
> > >>> > doable)
> > >>> >
> > >>> > Werner
> > >>> >
> > >>> > On Thu, Dec 4, 2014 at 3:45 PM, Werner Keil <werner.keil@gmail.com
> >
> > >>> wrote:
> > >>> >
> > >>> >> Hi,
> > >>> >>
> > >>> >> Probably more important than config subsystems in JSR 107 or
> Log4J 2
> > >>> >> (though it altogether got a really good rewrite making any effort
> > for a
> > >>> >> "Logging JSR" by some people almost pointless;-) seems a massive
> > >>> redesign
> > >>> >> and recent activity of Apache Commons Logging 2:
> > >>> >> http://commons.apache.org/proper/commons-configuration/index.html
> > >>> >>
> > >>> >> Anybody had a look at that?
> > >>> >>
> > >>> >> Apache certainly has a very multicultural ecosystem, look at
> Struts
> > vs.
> > >>> >> OpenFaces vs. Wicket vs. Tapestry and who knows how many (Web MVC)
> > >>> projects
> > >>> >> all exist, so why not have at least 2 or 3 for configuration.
> > >>> >>
> > >>> >> Something noteworthy is, that Commons Configuration 2 refrains
> from
> > any
> > >>> >> static factory.
> > >>> >> Even a class sounding like it was static such as Configurations
> (in
> > a
> > >>> new
> > >>> >> "fluent" package) works like this:
> > >>> >>  Configurations configurations = new Configurations();
> > >>> >> PropertiesConfiguration config = configurations.properties(new
> File(
> > >>> >>          "config.properties"));
> > >>> >>
> > >>> >> Werner
> > >>> >>
> > >>> >>
> > >>> >>
> > >>> >>
> > >>>
> > >>
> > >>
> >
>

Re: Commons Config 2

Posted by Gerhard Petracek <ge...@gmail.com>.
@werner:
we already have important and ongoing discussions in other threads
(starting step by step).
imo it doesn't make sense to start new threads about "random" topics which
will be discussed later on (once they are due).

regards,
gerhard



2014-12-04 16:16 GMT+01:00 Romain Manni-Bucau <rm...@gmail.com>:

> there are stages in jsf, deltaspike, spring and several other libs. In
> practise a system property is also ofnte used and enough for the
> config:
>
> Configuration.fromPaths("/foo/bar/" +
> System.getProperty("myapp.stage", "prod") + "-config.properties);
>
>
> Environment would make sense only when we'll support distribution
> which is far to be the case so we can maybe drop it for now.
>
>
>
>
> Romain Manni-Bucau
> @rmannibucau
> http://www.tomitribe.com
> http://rmannibucau.wordpress.com
> https://github.com/rmannibucau
>
>
> 2014-12-04 16:11 GMT+01:00 Werner Keil <we...@gmail.com>:
> > One could merge *Stage *and *Environment*, see Multiconf, but abusing
> *Stage
> > *to model *Environment *seems rather pointless.
> >
> > Werner
> >
> > On Thu, Dec 4, 2014 at 4:09 PM, Werner Keil <we...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >
> >> >About stage: we have enough stage outside tje config to use it without
> >> What do you mean here, the totally inadequate ProjectStage enum in
> JSF?;-)
> >>
> >> IMHO at least the notion of Environment should be present, otherwise
> >> multi-tenancy or "Cloud" support that Java EE keeps babbling about ever
> >> since at least EE 7 will remain the same joke and empty phrase in
> Tamaya as
> >> it does there (or in the PR of most large companies including Oracle;-D)
> >>
> >> Werner Keil | JCP Executive Committee Member, JSR 363 Co Spec Lead |
> >> Eclipse UOMo Lead, Babel Language Champion | Apache Committer | Advisory
> >> Board Member, DWX '15
> >>
> >> Twitter @wernerkeil | @UnitAPI | @JSR354 | @AgoravaProj | @DeviceMap |
> #EclipseUOMo
> >> | #DevOps
> >> Skype werner.keil | Google+ gplus.to/wernerkeil
> >>
> >> On Thu, Dec 4, 2014 at 4:02 PM, Romain Manni-Bucau <
> rmannibucau@gmail.com>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >>> About stage: we have enough stage outside tje config to use it without
> >>> any issue or code to write with [configuration].
> >>> About Environment: not a strong requirement in enough cases to not be
> >>> present by default.
> >>>
> >>> We could surely use [configuration] in our impl pretty easily (in a
> >>> format/reader depending where we finish)
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Romain Manni-Bucau
> >>> @rmannibucau
> >>> http://www.tomitribe.com
> >>> http://rmannibucau.wordpress.com
> >>> https://github.com/rmannibucau
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> 2014-12-04 15:52 GMT+01:00 Werner Keil <we...@gmail.com>:
> >>> > After a brief but slightly deeper look at Commons Config 2, it could
> be
> >>> > better separated into API vs. implementations (similar to say Log4J
> 2;-)
> >>> > and something notably absent is the concept of "Stage" or
> >>> "Environment". In
> >>> > theory the 2 projects could explore synergies making Tamaya the
> "Cloud
> >>> > Enabler" for some of the core concepts that look fairly neat in
> Commons
> >>> > Config 2 (I worked with V1 in a few projects, it was a bit complex
> but
> >>> > doable)
> >>> >
> >>> > Werner
> >>> >
> >>> > On Thu, Dec 4, 2014 at 3:45 PM, Werner Keil <we...@gmail.com>
> >>> wrote:
> >>> >
> >>> >> Hi,
> >>> >>
> >>> >> Probably more important than config subsystems in JSR 107 or Log4J 2
> >>> >> (though it altogether got a really good rewrite making any effort
> for a
> >>> >> "Logging JSR" by some people almost pointless;-) seems a massive
> >>> redesign
> >>> >> and recent activity of Apache Commons Logging 2:
> >>> >> http://commons.apache.org/proper/commons-configuration/index.html
> >>> >>
> >>> >> Anybody had a look at that?
> >>> >>
> >>> >> Apache certainly has a very multicultural ecosystem, look at Struts
> vs.
> >>> >> OpenFaces vs. Wicket vs. Tapestry and who knows how many (Web MVC)
> >>> projects
> >>> >> all exist, so why not have at least 2 or 3 for configuration.
> >>> >>
> >>> >> Something noteworthy is, that Commons Configuration 2 refrains from
> any
> >>> >> static factory.
> >>> >> Even a class sounding like it was static such as Configurations (in
> a
> >>> new
> >>> >> "fluent" package) works like this:
> >>> >>  Configurations configurations = new Configurations();
> >>> >> PropertiesConfiguration config = configurations.properties(new File(
> >>> >>          "config.properties"));
> >>> >>
> >>> >> Werner
> >>> >>
> >>> >>
> >>> >>
> >>> >>
> >>>
> >>
> >>
>

Re: Commons Config 2

Posted by Anatole Tresch <at...@gmail.com>.
BTW looking at my last mail about Stage: please stop modelling stage to be
defined as System property, simply not flexible enough...

2014-12-04 16:16 GMT+01:00 Romain Manni-Bucau <rm...@gmail.com>:

> there are stages in jsf, deltaspike, spring and several other libs. In
> practise a system property is also ofnte used and enough for the
> config:
>
> Configuration.fromPaths("/foo/bar/" +
> System.getProperty("myapp.stage", "prod") + "-config.properties);
>
>
> Environment would make sense only when we'll support distribution
> which is far to be the case so we can maybe drop it for now.
>
>
>
>
> Romain Manni-Bucau
> @rmannibucau
> http://www.tomitribe.com
> http://rmannibucau.wordpress.com
> https://github.com/rmannibucau
>
>
> 2014-12-04 16:11 GMT+01:00 Werner Keil <we...@gmail.com>:
> > One could merge *Stage *and *Environment*, see Multiconf, but abusing
> *Stage
> > *to model *Environment *seems rather pointless.
> >
> > Werner
> >
> > On Thu, Dec 4, 2014 at 4:09 PM, Werner Keil <we...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >
> >> >About stage: we have enough stage outside tje config to use it without
> >> What do you mean here, the totally inadequate ProjectStage enum in
> JSF?;-)
> >>
> >> IMHO at least the notion of Environment should be present, otherwise
> >> multi-tenancy or "Cloud" support that Java EE keeps babbling about ever
> >> since at least EE 7 will remain the same joke and empty phrase in
> Tamaya as
> >> it does there (or in the PR of most large companies including Oracle;-D)
> >>
> >> Werner Keil | JCP Executive Committee Member, JSR 363 Co Spec Lead |
> >> Eclipse UOMo Lead, Babel Language Champion | Apache Committer | Advisory
> >> Board Member, DWX '15
> >>
> >> Twitter @wernerkeil | @UnitAPI | @JSR354 | @AgoravaProj | @DeviceMap |
> #EclipseUOMo
> >> | #DevOps
> >> Skype werner.keil | Google+ gplus.to/wernerkeil
> >>
> >> On Thu, Dec 4, 2014 at 4:02 PM, Romain Manni-Bucau <
> rmannibucau@gmail.com>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >>> About stage: we have enough stage outside tje config to use it without
> >>> any issue or code to write with [configuration].
> >>> About Environment: not a strong requirement in enough cases to not be
> >>> present by default.
> >>>
> >>> We could surely use [configuration] in our impl pretty easily (in a
> >>> format/reader depending where we finish)
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Romain Manni-Bucau
> >>> @rmannibucau
> >>> http://www.tomitribe.com
> >>> http://rmannibucau.wordpress.com
> >>> https://github.com/rmannibucau
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> 2014-12-04 15:52 GMT+01:00 Werner Keil <we...@gmail.com>:
> >>> > After a brief but slightly deeper look at Commons Config 2, it could
> be
> >>> > better separated into API vs. implementations (similar to say Log4J
> 2;-)
> >>> > and something notably absent is the concept of "Stage" or
> >>> "Environment". In
> >>> > theory the 2 projects could explore synergies making Tamaya the
> "Cloud
> >>> > Enabler" for some of the core concepts that look fairly neat in
> Commons
> >>> > Config 2 (I worked with V1 in a few projects, it was a bit complex
> but
> >>> > doable)
> >>> >
> >>> > Werner
> >>> >
> >>> > On Thu, Dec 4, 2014 at 3:45 PM, Werner Keil <we...@gmail.com>
> >>> wrote:
> >>> >
> >>> >> Hi,
> >>> >>
> >>> >> Probably more important than config subsystems in JSR 107 or Log4J 2
> >>> >> (though it altogether got a really good rewrite making any effort
> for a
> >>> >> "Logging JSR" by some people almost pointless;-) seems a massive
> >>> redesign
> >>> >> and recent activity of Apache Commons Logging 2:
> >>> >> http://commons.apache.org/proper/commons-configuration/index.html
> >>> >>
> >>> >> Anybody had a look at that?
> >>> >>
> >>> >> Apache certainly has a very multicultural ecosystem, look at Struts
> vs.
> >>> >> OpenFaces vs. Wicket vs. Tapestry and who knows how many (Web MVC)
> >>> projects
> >>> >> all exist, so why not have at least 2 or 3 for configuration.
> >>> >>
> >>> >> Something noteworthy is, that Commons Configuration 2 refrains from
> any
> >>> >> static factory.
> >>> >> Even a class sounding like it was static such as Configurations (in
> a
> >>> new
> >>> >> "fluent" package) works like this:
> >>> >>  Configurations configurations = new Configurations();
> >>> >> PropertiesConfiguration config = configurations.properties(new File(
> >>> >>          "config.properties"));
> >>> >>
> >>> >> Werner
> >>> >>
> >>> >>
> >>> >>
> >>> >>
> >>>
> >>
> >>
>



-- 
*Anatole Tresch*
Java Engineer & Architect, JSR Spec Lead
Glärnischweg 10
CH - 8620 Wetzikon

*Switzerland, Europe Zurich, GMT+1*
*Twitter:  @atsticks*
*Blogs: **http://javaremarkables.blogspot.ch/
<http://javaremarkables.blogspot.ch/>*

*Google: atsticksMobile  +41-76 344 62 79*

Re: Commons Config 2

Posted by Werner Keil <we...@gmail.com>.
DeltaSpike yes: http://deltaspike.apache.org/documentation/projectstage.html

However if the idea is that an API shall be reusable, then most of what
e.g. "deltaspike.api.projectstage" defines should be done so in Tamaya;-)

Whether or not we provide Environment for an initial release, could sure be
discussed. It's there in the current codebase. And almost every large
Global 100 or 500 company will need something like it. For smaller
single-container or product based companies it may be an overhead. Depends
on which you want to support...

On Thu, Dec 4, 2014 at 4:16 PM, Romain Manni-Bucau <rm...@gmail.com>
wrote:

> there are stages in jsf, deltaspike, spring and several other libs. In
> practise a system property is also ofnte used and enough for the
> config:
>
> Configuration.fromPaths("/foo/bar/" +
> System.getProperty("myapp.stage", "prod") + "-config.properties);
>
>
> Environment would make sense only when we'll support distribution
> which is far to be the case so we can maybe drop it for now.
>
>
>
>
> Romain Manni-Bucau
> @rmannibucau
> http://www.tomitribe.com
> http://rmannibucau.wordpress.com
> https://github.com/rmannibucau
>
>
> 2014-12-04 16:11 GMT+01:00 Werner Keil <we...@gmail.com>:
> > One could merge *Stage *and *Environment*, see Multiconf, but abusing
> *Stage
> > *to model *Environment *seems rather pointless.
> >
> > Werner
> >
> > On Thu, Dec 4, 2014 at 4:09 PM, Werner Keil <we...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >
> >> >About stage: we have enough stage outside tje config to use it without
> >> What do you mean here, the totally inadequate ProjectStage enum in
> JSF?;-)
> >>
> >> IMHO at least the notion of Environment should be present, otherwise
> >> multi-tenancy or "Cloud" support that Java EE keeps babbling about ever
> >> since at least EE 7 will remain the same joke and empty phrase in
> Tamaya as
> >> it does there (or in the PR of most large companies including Oracle;-D)
> >>
> >> Werner Keil | JCP Executive Committee Member, JSR 363 Co Spec Lead |
> >> Eclipse UOMo Lead, Babel Language Champion | Apache Committer | Advisory
> >> Board Member, DWX '15
> >>
> >> Twitter @wernerkeil | @UnitAPI | @JSR354 | @AgoravaProj | @DeviceMap |
> #EclipseUOMo
> >> | #DevOps
> >> Skype werner.keil | Google+ gplus.to/wernerkeil
> >>
> >> On Thu, Dec 4, 2014 at 4:02 PM, Romain Manni-Bucau <
> rmannibucau@gmail.com>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >>> About stage: we have enough stage outside tje config to use it without
> >>> any issue or code to write with [configuration].
> >>> About Environment: not a strong requirement in enough cases to not be
> >>> present by default.
> >>>
> >>> We could surely use [configuration] in our impl pretty easily (in a
> >>> format/reader depending where we finish)
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Romain Manni-Bucau
> >>> @rmannibucau
> >>> http://www.tomitribe.com
> >>> http://rmannibucau.wordpress.com
> >>> https://github.com/rmannibucau
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> 2014-12-04 15:52 GMT+01:00 Werner Keil <we...@gmail.com>:
> >>> > After a brief but slightly deeper look at Commons Config 2, it could
> be
> >>> > better separated into API vs. implementations (similar to say Log4J
> 2;-)
> >>> > and something notably absent is the concept of "Stage" or
> >>> "Environment". In
> >>> > theory the 2 projects could explore synergies making Tamaya the
> "Cloud
> >>> > Enabler" for some of the core concepts that look fairly neat in
> Commons
> >>> > Config 2 (I worked with V1 in a few projects, it was a bit complex
> but
> >>> > doable)
> >>> >
> >>> > Werner
> >>> >
> >>> > On Thu, Dec 4, 2014 at 3:45 PM, Werner Keil <we...@gmail.com>
> >>> wrote:
> >>> >
> >>> >> Hi,
> >>> >>
> >>> >> Probably more important than config subsystems in JSR 107 or Log4J 2
> >>> >> (though it altogether got a really good rewrite making any effort
> for a
> >>> >> "Logging JSR" by some people almost pointless;-) seems a massive
> >>> redesign
> >>> >> and recent activity of Apache Commons Logging 2:
> >>> >> http://commons.apache.org/proper/commons-configuration/index.html
> >>> >>
> >>> >> Anybody had a look at that?
> >>> >>
> >>> >> Apache certainly has a very multicultural ecosystem, look at Struts
> vs.
> >>> >> OpenFaces vs. Wicket vs. Tapestry and who knows how many (Web MVC)
> >>> projects
> >>> >> all exist, so why not have at least 2 or 3 for configuration.
> >>> >>
> >>> >> Something noteworthy is, that Commons Configuration 2 refrains from
> any
> >>> >> static factory.
> >>> >> Even a class sounding like it was static such as Configurations (in
> a
> >>> new
> >>> >> "fluent" package) works like this:
> >>> >>  Configurations configurations = new Configurations();
> >>> >> PropertiesConfiguration config = configurations.properties(new File(
> >>> >>          "config.properties"));
> >>> >>
> >>> >> Werner
> >>> >>
> >>> >>
> >>> >>
> >>> >>
> >>>
> >>
> >>
>

Re: Commons Config 2

Posted by Romain Manni-Bucau <rm...@gmail.com>.
there are stages in jsf, deltaspike, spring and several other libs. In
practise a system property is also ofnte used and enough for the
config:

Configuration.fromPaths("/foo/bar/" +
System.getProperty("myapp.stage", "prod") + "-config.properties);


Environment would make sense only when we'll support distribution
which is far to be the case so we can maybe drop it for now.




Romain Manni-Bucau
@rmannibucau
http://www.tomitribe.com
http://rmannibucau.wordpress.com
https://github.com/rmannibucau


2014-12-04 16:11 GMT+01:00 Werner Keil <we...@gmail.com>:
> One could merge *Stage *and *Environment*, see Multiconf, but abusing *Stage
> *to model *Environment *seems rather pointless.
>
> Werner
>
> On Thu, Dec 4, 2014 at 4:09 PM, Werner Keil <we...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> >About stage: we have enough stage outside tje config to use it without
>> What do you mean here, the totally inadequate ProjectStage enum in JSF?;-)
>>
>> IMHO at least the notion of Environment should be present, otherwise
>> multi-tenancy or "Cloud" support that Java EE keeps babbling about ever
>> since at least EE 7 will remain the same joke and empty phrase in Tamaya as
>> it does there (or in the PR of most large companies including Oracle;-D)
>>
>> Werner Keil | JCP Executive Committee Member, JSR 363 Co Spec Lead |
>> Eclipse UOMo Lead, Babel Language Champion | Apache Committer | Advisory
>> Board Member, DWX '15
>>
>> Twitter @wernerkeil | @UnitAPI | @JSR354 | @AgoravaProj | @DeviceMap | #EclipseUOMo
>> | #DevOps
>> Skype werner.keil | Google+ gplus.to/wernerkeil
>>
>> On Thu, Dec 4, 2014 at 4:02 PM, Romain Manni-Bucau <rm...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> About stage: we have enough stage outside tje config to use it without
>>> any issue or code to write with [configuration].
>>> About Environment: not a strong requirement in enough cases to not be
>>> present by default.
>>>
>>> We could surely use [configuration] in our impl pretty easily (in a
>>> format/reader depending where we finish)
>>>
>>>
>>> Romain Manni-Bucau
>>> @rmannibucau
>>> http://www.tomitribe.com
>>> http://rmannibucau.wordpress.com
>>> https://github.com/rmannibucau
>>>
>>>
>>> 2014-12-04 15:52 GMT+01:00 Werner Keil <we...@gmail.com>:
>>> > After a brief but slightly deeper look at Commons Config 2, it could be
>>> > better separated into API vs. implementations (similar to say Log4J 2;-)
>>> > and something notably absent is the concept of "Stage" or
>>> "Environment". In
>>> > theory the 2 projects could explore synergies making Tamaya the "Cloud
>>> > Enabler" for some of the core concepts that look fairly neat in Commons
>>> > Config 2 (I worked with V1 in a few projects, it was a bit complex but
>>> > doable)
>>> >
>>> > Werner
>>> >
>>> > On Thu, Dec 4, 2014 at 3:45 PM, Werner Keil <we...@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>> >
>>> >> Hi,
>>> >>
>>> >> Probably more important than config subsystems in JSR 107 or Log4J 2
>>> >> (though it altogether got a really good rewrite making any effort for a
>>> >> "Logging JSR" by some people almost pointless;-) seems a massive
>>> redesign
>>> >> and recent activity of Apache Commons Logging 2:
>>> >> http://commons.apache.org/proper/commons-configuration/index.html
>>> >>
>>> >> Anybody had a look at that?
>>> >>
>>> >> Apache certainly has a very multicultural ecosystem, look at Struts vs.
>>> >> OpenFaces vs. Wicket vs. Tapestry and who knows how many (Web MVC)
>>> projects
>>> >> all exist, so why not have at least 2 or 3 for configuration.
>>> >>
>>> >> Something noteworthy is, that Commons Configuration 2 refrains from any
>>> >> static factory.
>>> >> Even a class sounding like it was static such as Configurations (in a
>>> new
>>> >> "fluent" package) works like this:
>>> >>  Configurations configurations = new Configurations();
>>> >> PropertiesConfiguration config = configurations.properties(new File(
>>> >>          "config.properties"));
>>> >>
>>> >> Werner
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>>
>>
>>

Re: Commons Config 2

Posted by Anatole Tresch <at...@gmail.com>.
We can certainly omit Stage as abstraction and just let it be modeled as
property on the Environment. This also would enable us to have different
applications running on the same server (SaaS) scenario having run in
different stages in parallel (since we can model the SaaS Environment
accordingly ;) ).


2014-12-04 16:11 GMT+01:00 Werner Keil <we...@gmail.com>:

> One could merge *Stage *and *Environment*, see Multiconf, but abusing
> *Stage
> *to model *Environment *seems rather pointless.
>
> Werner
>
> On Thu, Dec 4, 2014 at 4:09 PM, Werner Keil <we...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > >About stage: we have enough stage outside tje config to use it without
> > What do you mean here, the totally inadequate ProjectStage enum in
> JSF?;-)
> >
> > IMHO at least the notion of Environment should be present, otherwise
> > multi-tenancy or "Cloud" support that Java EE keeps babbling about ever
> > since at least EE 7 will remain the same joke and empty phrase in Tamaya
> as
> > it does there (or in the PR of most large companies including Oracle;-D)
> >
> > Werner Keil | JCP Executive Committee Member, JSR 363 Co Spec Lead |
> > Eclipse UOMo Lead, Babel Language Champion | Apache Committer | Advisory
> > Board Member, DWX '15
> >
> > Twitter @wernerkeil | @UnitAPI | @JSR354 | @AgoravaProj | @DeviceMap |
> #EclipseUOMo
> > | #DevOps
> > Skype werner.keil | Google+ gplus.to/wernerkeil
> >
> > On Thu, Dec 4, 2014 at 4:02 PM, Romain Manni-Bucau <
> rmannibucau@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> >> About stage: we have enough stage outside tje config to use it without
> >> any issue or code to write with [configuration].
> >> About Environment: not a strong requirement in enough cases to not be
> >> present by default.
> >>
> >> We could surely use [configuration] in our impl pretty easily (in a
> >> format/reader depending where we finish)
> >>
> >>
> >> Romain Manni-Bucau
> >> @rmannibucau
> >> http://www.tomitribe.com
> >> http://rmannibucau.wordpress.com
> >> https://github.com/rmannibucau
> >>
> >>
> >> 2014-12-04 15:52 GMT+01:00 Werner Keil <we...@gmail.com>:
> >> > After a brief but slightly deeper look at Commons Config 2, it could
> be
> >> > better separated into API vs. implementations (similar to say Log4J
> 2;-)
> >> > and something notably absent is the concept of "Stage" or
> >> "Environment". In
> >> > theory the 2 projects could explore synergies making Tamaya the "Cloud
> >> > Enabler" for some of the core concepts that look fairly neat in
> Commons
> >> > Config 2 (I worked with V1 in a few projects, it was a bit complex but
> >> > doable)
> >> >
> >> > Werner
> >> >
> >> > On Thu, Dec 4, 2014 at 3:45 PM, Werner Keil <we...@gmail.com>
> >> wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> Hi,
> >> >>
> >> >> Probably more important than config subsystems in JSR 107 or Log4J 2
> >> >> (though it altogether got a really good rewrite making any effort
> for a
> >> >> "Logging JSR" by some people almost pointless;-) seems a massive
> >> redesign
> >> >> and recent activity of Apache Commons Logging 2:
> >> >> http://commons.apache.org/proper/commons-configuration/index.html
> >> >>
> >> >> Anybody had a look at that?
> >> >>
> >> >> Apache certainly has a very multicultural ecosystem, look at Struts
> vs.
> >> >> OpenFaces vs. Wicket vs. Tapestry and who knows how many (Web MVC)
> >> projects
> >> >> all exist, so why not have at least 2 or 3 for configuration.
> >> >>
> >> >> Something noteworthy is, that Commons Configuration 2 refrains from
> any
> >> >> static factory.
> >> >> Even a class sounding like it was static such as Configurations (in a
> >> new
> >> >> "fluent" package) works like this:
> >> >>  Configurations configurations = new Configurations();
> >> >> PropertiesConfiguration config = configurations.properties(new File(
> >> >>          "config.properties"));
> >> >>
> >> >> Werner
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >>
> >
> >
>



-- 
*Anatole Tresch*
Java Engineer & Architect, JSR Spec Lead
Glärnischweg 10
CH - 8620 Wetzikon

*Switzerland, Europe Zurich, GMT+1*
*Twitter:  @atsticks*
*Blogs: **http://javaremarkables.blogspot.ch/
<http://javaremarkables.blogspot.ch/>*

*Google: atsticksMobile  +41-76 344 62 79*

Re: Commons Config 2

Posted by Werner Keil <we...@gmail.com>.
One could merge *Stage *and *Environment*, see Multiconf, but abusing *Stage
*to model *Environment *seems rather pointless.

Werner

On Thu, Dec 4, 2014 at 4:09 PM, Werner Keil <we...@gmail.com> wrote:

> >About stage: we have enough stage outside tje config to use it without
> What do you mean here, the totally inadequate ProjectStage enum in JSF?;-)
>
> IMHO at least the notion of Environment should be present, otherwise
> multi-tenancy or "Cloud" support that Java EE keeps babbling about ever
> since at least EE 7 will remain the same joke and empty phrase in Tamaya as
> it does there (or in the PR of most large companies including Oracle;-D)
>
> Werner Keil | JCP Executive Committee Member, JSR 363 Co Spec Lead |
> Eclipse UOMo Lead, Babel Language Champion | Apache Committer | Advisory
> Board Member, DWX '15
>
> Twitter @wernerkeil | @UnitAPI | @JSR354 | @AgoravaProj | @DeviceMap | #EclipseUOMo
> | #DevOps
> Skype werner.keil | Google+ gplus.to/wernerkeil
>
> On Thu, Dec 4, 2014 at 4:02 PM, Romain Manni-Bucau <rm...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> About stage: we have enough stage outside tje config to use it without
>> any issue or code to write with [configuration].
>> About Environment: not a strong requirement in enough cases to not be
>> present by default.
>>
>> We could surely use [configuration] in our impl pretty easily (in a
>> format/reader depending where we finish)
>>
>>
>> Romain Manni-Bucau
>> @rmannibucau
>> http://www.tomitribe.com
>> http://rmannibucau.wordpress.com
>> https://github.com/rmannibucau
>>
>>
>> 2014-12-04 15:52 GMT+01:00 Werner Keil <we...@gmail.com>:
>> > After a brief but slightly deeper look at Commons Config 2, it could be
>> > better separated into API vs. implementations (similar to say Log4J 2;-)
>> > and something notably absent is the concept of "Stage" or
>> "Environment". In
>> > theory the 2 projects could explore synergies making Tamaya the "Cloud
>> > Enabler" for some of the core concepts that look fairly neat in Commons
>> > Config 2 (I worked with V1 in a few projects, it was a bit complex but
>> > doable)
>> >
>> > Werner
>> >
>> > On Thu, Dec 4, 2014 at 3:45 PM, Werner Keil <we...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> >
>> >> Hi,
>> >>
>> >> Probably more important than config subsystems in JSR 107 or Log4J 2
>> >> (though it altogether got a really good rewrite making any effort for a
>> >> "Logging JSR" by some people almost pointless;-) seems a massive
>> redesign
>> >> and recent activity of Apache Commons Logging 2:
>> >> http://commons.apache.org/proper/commons-configuration/index.html
>> >>
>> >> Anybody had a look at that?
>> >>
>> >> Apache certainly has a very multicultural ecosystem, look at Struts vs.
>> >> OpenFaces vs. Wicket vs. Tapestry and who knows how many (Web MVC)
>> projects
>> >> all exist, so why not have at least 2 or 3 for configuration.
>> >>
>> >> Something noteworthy is, that Commons Configuration 2 refrains from any
>> >> static factory.
>> >> Even a class sounding like it was static such as Configurations (in a
>> new
>> >> "fluent" package) works like this:
>> >>  Configurations configurations = new Configurations();
>> >> PropertiesConfiguration config = configurations.properties(new File(
>> >>          "config.properties"));
>> >>
>> >> Werner
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>>
>
>

Re: Commons Config 2

Posted by Werner Keil <we...@gmail.com>.
>About stage: we have enough stage outside tje config to use it without
What do you mean here, the totally inadequate ProjectStage enum in JSF?;-)

IMHO at least the notion of Environment should be present, otherwise
multi-tenancy or "Cloud" support that Java EE keeps babbling about ever
since at least EE 7 will remain the same joke and empty phrase in Tamaya as
it does there (or in the PR of most large companies including Oracle;-D)

Werner Keil | JCP Executive Committee Member, JSR 363 Co Spec Lead |
Eclipse UOMo Lead, Babel Language Champion | Apache Committer | Advisory
Board Member, DWX '15

Twitter @wernerkeil | @UnitAPI | @JSR354 | @AgoravaProj | @DeviceMap |
#EclipseUOMo
| #DevOps
Skype werner.keil | Google+ gplus.to/wernerkeil

On Thu, Dec 4, 2014 at 4:02 PM, Romain Manni-Bucau <rm...@gmail.com>
wrote:

> About stage: we have enough stage outside tje config to use it without
> any issue or code to write with [configuration].
> About Environment: not a strong requirement in enough cases to not be
> present by default.
>
> We could surely use [configuration] in our impl pretty easily (in a
> format/reader depending where we finish)
>
>
> Romain Manni-Bucau
> @rmannibucau
> http://www.tomitribe.com
> http://rmannibucau.wordpress.com
> https://github.com/rmannibucau
>
>
> 2014-12-04 15:52 GMT+01:00 Werner Keil <we...@gmail.com>:
> > After a brief but slightly deeper look at Commons Config 2, it could be
> > better separated into API vs. implementations (similar to say Log4J 2;-)
> > and something notably absent is the concept of "Stage" or "Environment".
> In
> > theory the 2 projects could explore synergies making Tamaya the "Cloud
> > Enabler" for some of the core concepts that look fairly neat in Commons
> > Config 2 (I worked with V1 in a few projects, it was a bit complex but
> > doable)
> >
> > Werner
> >
> > On Thu, Dec 4, 2014 at 3:45 PM, Werner Keil <we...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >
> >> Hi,
> >>
> >> Probably more important than config subsystems in JSR 107 or Log4J 2
> >> (though it altogether got a really good rewrite making any effort for a
> >> "Logging JSR" by some people almost pointless;-) seems a massive
> redesign
> >> and recent activity of Apache Commons Logging 2:
> >> http://commons.apache.org/proper/commons-configuration/index.html
> >>
> >> Anybody had a look at that?
> >>
> >> Apache certainly has a very multicultural ecosystem, look at Struts vs.
> >> OpenFaces vs. Wicket vs. Tapestry and who knows how many (Web MVC)
> projects
> >> all exist, so why not have at least 2 or 3 for configuration.
> >>
> >> Something noteworthy is, that Commons Configuration 2 refrains from any
> >> static factory.
> >> Even a class sounding like it was static such as Configurations (in a
> new
> >> "fluent" package) works like this:
> >>  Configurations configurations = new Configurations();
> >> PropertiesConfiguration config = configurations.properties(new File(
> >>          "config.properties"));
> >>
> >> Werner
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
>

Re: Commons Config 2

Posted by Romain Manni-Bucau <rm...@gmail.com>.
About stage: we have enough stage outside tje config to use it without
any issue or code to write with [configuration].
About Environment: not a strong requirement in enough cases to not be
present by default.

We could surely use [configuration] in our impl pretty easily (in a
format/reader depending where we finish)


Romain Manni-Bucau
@rmannibucau
http://www.tomitribe.com
http://rmannibucau.wordpress.com
https://github.com/rmannibucau


2014-12-04 15:52 GMT+01:00 Werner Keil <we...@gmail.com>:
> After a brief but slightly deeper look at Commons Config 2, it could be
> better separated into API vs. implementations (similar to say Log4J 2;-)
> and something notably absent is the concept of "Stage" or "Environment". In
> theory the 2 projects could explore synergies making Tamaya the "Cloud
> Enabler" for some of the core concepts that look fairly neat in Commons
> Config 2 (I worked with V1 in a few projects, it was a bit complex but
> doable)
>
> Werner
>
> On Thu, Dec 4, 2014 at 3:45 PM, Werner Keil <we...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> Probably more important than config subsystems in JSR 107 or Log4J 2
>> (though it altogether got a really good rewrite making any effort for a
>> "Logging JSR" by some people almost pointless;-) seems a massive redesign
>> and recent activity of Apache Commons Logging 2:
>> http://commons.apache.org/proper/commons-configuration/index.html
>>
>> Anybody had a look at that?
>>
>> Apache certainly has a very multicultural ecosystem, look at Struts vs.
>> OpenFaces vs. Wicket vs. Tapestry and who knows how many (Web MVC) projects
>> all exist, so why not have at least 2 or 3 for configuration.
>>
>> Something noteworthy is, that Commons Configuration 2 refrains from any
>> static factory.
>> Even a class sounding like it was static such as Configurations (in a new
>> "fluent" package) works like this:
>>  Configurations configurations = new Configurations();
>> PropertiesConfiguration config = configurations.properties(new File(
>>          "config.properties"));
>>
>> Werner
>>
>>
>>
>>

Re: Commons Config 2

Posted by Werner Keil <we...@gmail.com>.
After a brief but slightly deeper look at Commons Config 2, it could be
better separated into API vs. implementations (similar to say Log4J 2;-)
and something notably absent is the concept of "Stage" or "Environment". In
theory the 2 projects could explore synergies making Tamaya the "Cloud
Enabler" for some of the core concepts that look fairly neat in Commons
Config 2 (I worked with V1 in a few projects, it was a bit complex but
doable)

Werner

On Thu, Dec 4, 2014 at 3:45 PM, Werner Keil <we...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> Probably more important than config subsystems in JSR 107 or Log4J 2
> (though it altogether got a really good rewrite making any effort for a
> "Logging JSR" by some people almost pointless;-) seems a massive redesign
> and recent activity of Apache Commons Logging 2:
> http://commons.apache.org/proper/commons-configuration/index.html
>
> Anybody had a look at that?
>
> Apache certainly has a very multicultural ecosystem, look at Struts vs.
> OpenFaces vs. Wicket vs. Tapestry and who knows how many (Web MVC) projects
> all exist, so why not have at least 2 or 3 for configuration.
>
> Something noteworthy is, that Commons Configuration 2 refrains from any
> static factory.
> Even a class sounding like it was static such as Configurations (in a new
> "fluent" package) works like this:
>  Configurations configurations = new Configurations();
> PropertiesConfiguration config = configurations.properties(new File(
>          "config.properties"));
>
> Werner
>
>
>
>