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Posted to general@jakarta.apache.org by Avi Cherry <al...@cafe.net> on 1999/11/23 16:46:40 UTC
Caucho Resin
Continuing in my spirit of posing not necessarily the most well-loved
questions...
http://www.caucho.com/
Has anyone looked at Resin?
Now... Besides the licensing differences between Jakarta and Resin,
what can the people on this list tell me that would convince me to
stick with Jakarta? I am a consultant working for a web host/design
company that will be doing a significant amount of dynamic web work
over the next while. We will also need to be supporting quite a lot
of traffic over the next while. Is anyone familiar with Resin? Does
anyone know what the differences would be and why one would be better
than the other?
(Please try not to get defensive, if, for some reason, you took this
as a challenge to the validity of what you are doing here, which I am
not.)
Avi Cherry
Re: Caucho Resin
Posted by Brill Pappin <br...@jmonkey.com>.
Bullsoft and Enhydra joining forces... that would be good for both of them I
think... I've looked at both, and they both have features or good parts
there the other could benefit from.
The biggest problem with them is that they are not "simple" to set up...
that's actually one of the things I'd like to see for Tomcat...
Is anyone already working on an app server to run under the same model as
Tomcat? That might be a good next project...
- Brill Pappin
www.jmonkey.com
The sooner you fall behind,
the more time you will have
to catch up."
----- Original Message -----
From: Ray Racine <rr...@adelphia.net>
To: <ge...@jakarta.apache.org>
Sent: Tuesday, November 23, 1999 9:28 PM
Subject: Re: Caucho Resin
> Funny you should ask. I ran across Caucho Resin this weekend.
>
> Looking at www.bullsoft..com/ejb for the latest release of their EJB1.1.
>
> The latest news says they have joined forces with Enhydra Java Appserver
> (open source).
> So.... I gotta go take a look ...
> Hadn't read anything about them for a long time but they are moving
> along.
> After peeking in on Enhydra, I was remembered to check out Locomotive
> (an alternate open source Java App Server) to see that they have been up
> too.
Re: Benchmarking Tomcat (was: Caucho Resin)
Posted by Costin Manolache <co...@eng.sun.com>.
"Preston L. Bannister" wrote:
> No one has yet pointed out the obvious here.
>
> The Resin web site lists a benchmark of different servlet engines,
> and Tomcat fairs pretty poorly.
>
> Bet we could improve that :) but need a simple benchmark to get started.
I use "ab" ( from apache ) - it's good enough to help finding hot spots and
have an ideea about improvements.
Note that tomcat was not tuned for performance, the main goal was to
implement the specs as well as possible. Another big goal is/will be
security,
then integration with Apache.
IMHO in an Apache/tomcat environment we'll have a significant
speed improvement - and a very big one when Apache2.0 will be
used with more efficient adapters ( like JNI ).
( from my experience with tomcat and optimize-it, a large amount of
time is spent in the mini-httpd - that's where Apache will be pluged
in "production" sites)
Also, another big chunck of time is spent in request parsing ( finding
the context, pathinfo, etc) - again, that is information available to
apache and the code will be out of loop.
Of course, we need to improve the time for all components, but (again,
IMHO ) the speed is not the greatest problem - I would rather have tomcat
slower but more stable and easier to install. ( assuming "reasonable"
speed,
of course).
Costin
Re: Benchmarking Tomcat (was: Caucho Resin)
Posted by Brill Pappin <br...@jmonkey.com>.
Sorry to be a thorn, but I seriously hope Tomcat is more than "just as
efficient" as Perl... Perl is not very efficient at all, particularly under
heavy load.
Can't speak for PHP, I've never used it...
- Brill Pappin
www.jmonkey.com
The sooner you fall behind,
the more time you will have
to catch up."
----- Original Message -----
From: Avi Cherry <al...@cafe.net>
To: <ge...@jakarta.apache.org>
Sent: Wednesday, November 24, 1999 5:09 AM
Subject: Re: Benchmarking Tomcat (was: Caucho Resin)
> >The Resin web site lists a benchmark of different servlet engines,
> >and Tomcat fairs pretty poorly.
>
> http://www.chamas.com/hello_world.html
>
> To return you to his semi-benchmark, I find the Resin benchmark VERY
> encouraging. It shows that there's a good possibility of making
> Tomcat just as efficient as much less flexible and more difficult to
> use systems, such as Perl and PHP. (It logged around a million
> hits/hour on a 266Mhz PII)
>
> <disclaimer> This is not much of a benchmark. It only shows the
> overhead per hit for each implementation. </disclaimer>
>
> Avi Cherry
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
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>
Re: Benchmarking Tomcat (was: Caucho Resin)
Posted by Avi Cherry <al...@cafe.net>.
>The Resin web site lists a benchmark of different servlet engines,
>and Tomcat fairs pretty poorly.
http://www.chamas.com/hello_world.html
To return you to his semi-benchmark, I find the Resin benchmark VERY
encouraging. It shows that there's a good possibility of making
Tomcat just as efficient as much less flexible and more difficult to
use systems, such as Perl and PHP. (It logged around a million
hits/hour on a 266Mhz PII)
<disclaimer> This is not much of a benchmark. It only shows the
overhead per hit for each implementation. </disclaimer>
Avi Cherry
Benchmarking Tomcat (was: Caucho Resin)
Posted by "Preston L. Bannister" <pr...@home.com>.
No one has yet pointed out the obvious here.
The Resin web site lists a benchmark of different servlet engines,
and Tomcat fairs pretty poorly.
Bet we could improve that :) but need a simple benchmark to get started.
Re: Caucho Resin
Posted by Brian Behlendorf <br...@apache.org>.
On Wed, 24 Nov 1999, Avi Cherry wrote:
> >That is not an Open Source license, then. A true Open Source license can
> >not have a fee for commercial use.
>
> I didn't say "open source", I said "Open Source Style", like the Sun
> Community Licence.
Sun has been very careful not to use the term Open Source to describe any
part of what they do, thankfully. Caucho should use similar caution.
Open Source isn't a registered trademark, but any company that tries to
blur the lines by calling something that isn't "Open Source", "Open Source
Style", is in for some serious flamage.
You might ask what the big deal is. The big deal is that if there is no
right to noncommercial use without paying a fee, there is no right to
fork. The right to fork is essential - it's the only device that ensures
that the software will outlive the organization behind it.
> http://www.caucho.com/download/license.html
>
> That is the current licence. I imagine there will be something
> different coming along when 1.1 is released. If you want to get some
> information on what's happening when 1.1 comes out, email them. I
> did, and they gave me some information. I probably shouldn't repeat
> it here, since it's not finalized.
I'll do that.
Brian
Re: Caucho Resin
Posted by Avi Cherry <al...@cafe.net>.
>That is not an Open Source license, then. A true Open Source license can
>not have a fee for commercial use.
I didn't say "open source", I said "Open Source Style", like the Sun
Community Licence.
http://www.caucho.com/download/license.html
That is the current licence. I imagine there will be something
different coming along when 1.1 is released. If you want to get some
information on what's happening when 1.1 comes out, email them. I
did, and they gave me some information. I probably shouldn't repeat
it here, since it's not finalized.
Avi Cherry
Re: Caucho Resin
Posted by Brian Behlendorf <br...@apache.org>.
On Tue, 23 Nov 1999, Avi Cherry wrote:
> >Their web site also states the next version, V1.1, will NOT be open
> >sourced but commercial in nature.
>
> They have their own open-source-style licence. V1.1 will still be
> open-source, but they will require you to buy a licence if you if
> you are using it for commercial use. Personal use is free.
That is not an Open Source license, then. A true Open Source license can
not have a fee for commercial use.
Oh well.
Where is a URL that spells this new license out?
Brian
Re: Caucho Resin
Posted by Avi Cherry <al...@cafe.net>.
>Their web site also states the next version, V1.1, will NOT be open
>sourced but commercial in nature.
They have their own open-source-style licence. V1.1 will still be
open-source, but they will require you to buy a licence if you if
you are using it for commercial use. Personal use is free.
Re: Caucho Resin
Posted by Brian Behlendorf <br...@apache.org>.
On Tue, 23 Nov 1999, Ray Racine wrote:
> Their web site also states the next version, V1.1, will NOT be open
> sourced but commercial in nature.
Where? On www.caucho.com it says:
Resin tm 1.1 beta
JSP 1.1 tag libraries
....
Open Source
Brian
Re: Caucho Resin
Posted by Ray Racine <rr...@adelphia.net>.
Funny you should ask. I ran across Caucho Resin this weekend.
Looking at www.bullsoft..com/ejb for the latest release of their EJB1.1.
The latest news says they have joined forces with Enhydra Java Appserver
(open source).
So.... I gotta go take a look ...
Hadn't read anything about them for a long time but they are moving
along.
After peeking in on Enhydra, I was remembered to check out Locomotive
(an alternate open source Java App Server) to see that they have been up
too.
Well it seems Locomotive has teamed up with Caucho Resin 1.0 release to
offer JSP, Servlet support.
[FYI from the www.locomotive.org site you have to check out
www.theman.com which is using Locomotive / Cauho-Resin to run its site.
There is another excellent link on locomotive to a 4 page Time Magazine
(?) article that describes how a bunch of Stanford Grads raised 2
million in capital and launched www.theman.com based upon
Locomote/Resin.]
But I digress, the web wove, and I ended up taking a look at Caucho
Resin.
Their claim to fame is using JScript as the JSP scripting language.
Take a close look at some of their example JSP pages and JScript does
appear to be more "elegant" as opposed to pure Java for scripting inside
a JSP page.
If not more elegant then certainly more accesable to non-programmers.
Meaning that Web page designers are already comfortable with HTML /
JSCRIPT and the JSCRIPT object vernacular and could immediately start
putting together dynamic pages. For a number of HTML/JSCRIPT web page
designers they will not be as familiar or comfortable with the Java
centric scripting view.
Resin will also use Java as well as JScript as the scripting language.
BTW the JSP spec is open with regards to the scripting language used.
So I believe its conformant to the JSP spec.
Overall, very impressive. I'm a coder not a web page guy so I feel more
solid using Java and not JScript so there is nothing there for me
personally.
Their web site also states the next version, V1.1, will NOT be open
sourced but commercial in nature.
Regards,
Ray
Avi Cherry wrote:
> Continuing in my spirit of posing not necessarily the most well-loved
> questions...
>
> http://www.caucho.com/
>
> Has anyone looked at Resin?
> Now... Besides the licensing differences between Jakarta and Resin,
> what can the people on this list tell me that would convince me to
> stick with Jakarta? I am a consultant working for a web host/design
> company that will be doing a significant amount of dynamic web work
> over the next while. We will also need to be supporting quite a lot
> of traffic over the next while. Is anyone familiar with Resin? Does
> anyone know what the differences would be and why one would be better
> than the other?
> (Please try not to get defensive, if, for some reason, you took this
> as a challenge to the validity of what you are doing here, which I am
> not.)
>
> Avi Cherry
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@jakarta.apache.org