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Posted to dev@ofbiz.apache.org by Jacques Le Roux <ja...@les7arts.com> on 2012/11/18 20:41:50 UTC
New OFBiz webhelp - OFBIZ-4941
Hi,
We (Tom and I) are ready to commit the new help (webhelp - OFBIZ-4941) in the content component where all work for us, and will be completed by Tom as he suggested.
There are some trivial Birt issues which will dissapear when the process will be completed, see my last comment.
Is it ok to commit as is and to improve later? Mostly we want to move webhelp outside of the content component in a new, to stay OOTB, specialpurpose webehlp component.
Or do you want this addressed before? Note that if you want this addressed now we expect a rapid help from those who want that...
Thanks
Jacques
Re: New OFBiz webhelp - OFBIZ-4941
Posted by Jacques Le Roux <ja...@les7arts.com>.
From: "Scott Gray" <sc...@hotwaxmedia.com>
>I haven't had time yet, I was on a computer-free vacation last week and now have a ton to catch up on.
>
> I've read the pdf document but it's light on implementation detail so I guess I'll have to dig into the patch at some point.
>
> Thoughts/questions so far:
> - The build time compilation is a concern IMO,
The Webhelp as it is now can't achieve fast build time compilation, the xslt transformation eats much of it.
>I'd like to see a help system that users can edit as needed with things like business specific information and filling in gaps for custom enhancements that the devs didn't document fully
This can perhaps be achieved by following the Webhelp documentation and maybe some support. What kind of interfacve would you envision?
> - I think I saw somewhere that it is planned to commit the generated help html? Why? Version control is for source code.
The idea is to have a ready help OOTB, as it exists currently with simple Docbook on which is based Webhelp. Also we could chain the ant task which build the new help (like we have load-demo for instance) but then we would not have the Webhelp OOTB, for instance in the demo server, which would be a pity.
Tom proposed to complete what is already done once it will be committed. This is a significant part of work and I'd not like his proposition to help to be rejected without really good reasons.
For now it's a pain to handle from the committer side because the new help system (not the generated part, which is easy to do, just run ant webhelp.all) is not integrated and you have to pick files in archives and moves them in folders
> - How would this approach work in multi-tenanted systems where not all apps are available to all tenants? If help is a complete document I'm not sure how it could be restricted by context?
Do we really need to worry about that for a 1st phase? What do you envision that will differ OOTB?
>
> I think it's important to make a distinction between the 'prettiness' of the proposed implementation and the underlying design.
If someone has good ideas for the underlying design then I will be all ears of course. But this should not prevent us to block the work done. We can always improve later as we already suggested for a new specific webhelp component. Thinking more about it, why not in the framework instead of specialpurpose as already suggested? Is it not a crucial/basic part of any system to have an embedded way of building helps? Of course this question concerns only the gnerating part not the generated one.
> I also think it's unfortunate that we're unable to eat our own dog food and use the content app properly given that documentation is ultimately content embedded within OFBiz. It's a great use-case for improving the content app really.
That's another story, if ever someone comes with something better or improving based on that, then yay! But I fear this will not happen in a near/mid term future, why wait?
Let's be realistic, we can have a better looking and much improved help, why stop it?
Jacques
>
> Regards
> Scott
>
> On 4/12/2012, at 7:58 AM, Olivier Heintz wrote:
>
>> I have tested the new OFBIz webhelp for the last 3 weeks and migrated
>> some help we already have (for projectmgr)
>>
>> On a end user perspective, webhelp is clearly an enhancement, because
>> search and glossary (and better presentation) help to find the correct
>> information more quickly.
>> On a help writer perspective, docbook file structure is easier to
>> understand that dataresource - content - contentAssoc - ...
>>
>> There are still some minors problems, but in each case I have found
>> (with Tom help sometime) how to solve it.
>>
>> I'm waiting a first release is publish to trunk to send jira with these
>> enhancements.
>>
>> User Help is one of the software quality criteria and webhelp will help
>> ofbiz community to have better one.
>> Tools is not everything, but it's a good step to motivate the community
>> to contribute in this area.
>>
>>
>> Le 28/11/2012 19:22, Jacques Le Roux a écrit :
>>> Bump ?
>>>
>>> Jacques
>>>
>>> Jacques Le Roux wrote:
>>>> Yes no problems. Depending on what you are starting from, you will need to add binaries files (from my last patch) or not (Tom's
>>>> zips) but with zips you might get some issues, already blurred in my mind.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks
>>>>
>>>> Jacques
>>>>
>>>> From: "Scott Gray" <sc...@hotwaxmedia.com>
>>>>> It's been all of 3 days since I asked you to wait for a thorough review, has that happened yet or will you just keep asking
>>>>> until no one can be bothered asking you to wait any longer? Patience is a virtue Jacques, the project has gone over 10 years
>>>>> without this feature and I don't think a few days/weeks/months will hurt any, especially considering the next release branch
>>>>> isn't due to be created for quite some time.
>>>>>
>>>>> Regards
>>>>> Scott
>>>>>
>>>>> On 19/11/2012, at 8:41 AM, Jacques Le Roux wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> We (Tom and I) are ready to commit the new help (webhelp - OFBIZ-4941) in the content component where all work for us, and will
>>>>>> be completed by Tom as he suggested. There are some trivial Birt issues which will dissapear when the process will be
>>>>>> completed, see my last comment.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Is it ok to commit as is and to improve later? Mostly we want to move webhelp outside of the content component in a new, to
>>>>>> stay OOTB, specialpurpose webehlp component. Or do you want this addressed before? Note that if you want this addressed now we
>>>>>> expect a rapid help from those who want that...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Jacques
>>
>
>
Re: New OFBiz webhelp - OFBIZ-4941
Posted by Jacques Le Roux <ja...@les7arts.com>.
For those who are interested to see the final (incomplete) result, done at https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/ofbiz/branches/webhelp-2012-12-07
Changes from trunk HEAD are at http://svn.apache.org/viewvc?rev=1418622&view=rev
Jacques
From: "Jacques Le Roux" <ja...@les7arts.com>
> For the major reason you know, I will commit this work in a branch for now
>
> Jacques
>
> From: "Jacques Le Roux" <ja...@les7arts.com>
>> From: <ad...@sandglass-software.com>
>>> Scott,
>>>
>>> I agree with your last paragraph and I have suggested it in the past,
>>> but there doesn't seem to be much interest in it. There is a much
>>> simpler way to implement help that addresses all of our concerns:
>>
>> Maybe and this could replace/improve what Tom proposed, but why wait or reject the current work?
>>
>>> 1. Put Help URLs in the UI label files so they can be localized.
>>> 2. Use the Content component to store and display Help data.
>>> 3. Have each component initialize the database with Help data.
>>
>> Maybe a POC could show the result and would make us able to compare with the current proposition
>> Of course not only in term of result but also of architecture.
>>
>>> OFBiz OOTB could have some Help screens available in the Content
>>> component, but if a user wanted to use some other method, all they
>>> would need to do is change the Help URLs in the UI label files (to
>>> point to an internal Wiki for example).
>>
>> The same can be achieved by Tom's proposition IIRW. It's just a matter or changing an URL
>>
>> Jacques
>>
>>> -Adrian
>>>
>>> Quoting Scott Gray <sc...@hotwaxmedia.com>:
>>>
>>>> I haven't had time yet, I was on a computer-free vacation last week
>>>> and now have a ton to catch up on.
>>>>
>>>> I've read the pdf document but it's light on implementation detail
>>>> so I guess I'll have to dig into the patch at some point.
>>>>
>>>> Thoughts/questions so far:
>>>> - The build time compilation is a concern IMO, I'd like to see a
>>>> help system that users can edit as needed with things like business
>>>> specific information and filling in gaps for custom enhancements
>>>> that the devs didn't document fully
>>>> - I think I saw somewhere that it is planned to commit the generated
>>>> help html? Why? Version control is for source code.
>>>> - How would this approach work in multi-tenanted systems where not
>>>> all apps are available to all tenants? If help is a complete
>>>> document I'm not sure how it could be restricted by context?
>>>>
>>>> I think it's important to make a distinction between the
>>>> 'prettiness' of the proposed implementation and the underlying design.
>>>>
>>>> I also think it's unfortunate that we're unable to eat our own dog
>>>> food and use the content app properly given that documentation is
>>>> ultimately content embedded within OFBiz. It's a great use-case for
>>>> improving the content app really.
>>>>
>>>> Regards
>>>> Scott
>>>>
>>>> On 4/12/2012, at 7:58 AM, Olivier Heintz wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I have tested the new OFBIz webhelp for the last 3 weeks and migrated
>>>>> some help we already have (for projectmgr)
>>>>>
>>>>> On a end user perspective, webhelp is clearly an enhancement, because
>>>>> search and glossary (and better presentation) help to find the correct
>>>>> information more quickly.
>>>>> On a help writer perspective, docbook file structure is easier to
>>>>> understand that dataresource - content - contentAssoc - ...
>>>>>
>>>>> There are still some minors problems, but in each case I have found
>>>>> (with Tom help sometime) how to solve it.
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm waiting a first release is publish to trunk to send jira with these
>>>>> enhancements.
>>>>>
>>>>> User Help is one of the software quality criteria and webhelp will help
>>>>> ofbiz community to have better one.
>>>>> Tools is not everything, but it's a good step to motivate the community
>>>>> to contribute in this area.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Le 28/11/2012 19:22, Jacques Le Roux a écrit :
>>>>>> Bump ?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Jacques
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Jacques Le Roux wrote:
>>>>>>> Yes no problems. Depending on what you are starting from, you
>>>>>>> will need to add binaries files (from my last patch) or not (Tom's
>>>>>>> zips) but with zips you might get some issues, already blurred in my mind.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thanks
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Jacques
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> From: "Scott Gray" <sc...@hotwaxmedia.com>
>>>>>>>> It's been all of 3 days since I asked you to wait for a thorough
>>>>>>>> review, has that happened yet or will you just keep asking
>>>>>>>> until no one can be bothered asking you to wait any longer?
>>>>>>>> Patience is a virtue Jacques, the project has gone over 10 years
>>>>>>>> without this feature and I don't think a few days/weeks/months
>>>>>>>> will hurt any, especially considering the next release branch
>>>>>>>> isn't due to be created for quite some time.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Regards
>>>>>>>> Scott
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 19/11/2012, at 8:41 AM, Jacques Le Roux wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> We (Tom and I) are ready to commit the new help (webhelp -
>>>>>>>>> OFBIZ-4941) in the content component where all work for us, and
>>>>>>>>> will
>>>>>>>>> be completed by Tom as he suggested. There are some trivial
>>>>>>>>> Birt issues which will dissapear when the process will be
>>>>>>>>> completed, see my last comment.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Is it ok to commit as is and to improve later? Mostly we want
>>>>>>>>> to move webhelp outside of the content component in a new, to
>>>>>>>>> stay OOTB, specialpurpose webehlp component. Or do you want
>>>>>>>>> this addressed before? Note that if you want this addressed now
>>>>>>>>> we
>>>>>>>>> expect a rapid help from those who want that...
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Thanks
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Jacques
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>
Re: New OFBiz webhelp - OFBIZ-4941
Posted by Jacques Le Roux <ja...@les7arts.com>.
For the major reason you know, I will commit this work in a branch for now
Jacques
From: "Jacques Le Roux" <ja...@les7arts.com>
> From: <ad...@sandglass-software.com>
>> Scott,
>>
>> I agree with your last paragraph and I have suggested it in the past,
>> but there doesn't seem to be much interest in it. There is a much
>> simpler way to implement help that addresses all of our concerns:
>
> Maybe and this could replace/improve what Tom proposed, but why wait or reject the current work?
>
>> 1. Put Help URLs in the UI label files so they can be localized.
>> 2. Use the Content component to store and display Help data.
>> 3. Have each component initialize the database with Help data.
>
> Maybe a POC could show the result and would make us able to compare with the current proposition
> Of course not only in term of result but also of architecture.
>
>> OFBiz OOTB could have some Help screens available in the Content
>> component, but if a user wanted to use some other method, all they
>> would need to do is change the Help URLs in the UI label files (to
>> point to an internal Wiki for example).
>
> The same can be achieved by Tom's proposition IIRW. It's just a matter or changing an URL
>
> Jacques
>
>> -Adrian
>>
>> Quoting Scott Gray <sc...@hotwaxmedia.com>:
>>
>>> I haven't had time yet, I was on a computer-free vacation last week
>>> and now have a ton to catch up on.
>>>
>>> I've read the pdf document but it's light on implementation detail
>>> so I guess I'll have to dig into the patch at some point.
>>>
>>> Thoughts/questions so far:
>>> - The build time compilation is a concern IMO, I'd like to see a
>>> help system that users can edit as needed with things like business
>>> specific information and filling in gaps for custom enhancements
>>> that the devs didn't document fully
>>> - I think I saw somewhere that it is planned to commit the generated
>>> help html? Why? Version control is for source code.
>>> - How would this approach work in multi-tenanted systems where not
>>> all apps are available to all tenants? If help is a complete
>>> document I'm not sure how it could be restricted by context?
>>>
>>> I think it's important to make a distinction between the
>>> 'prettiness' of the proposed implementation and the underlying design.
>>>
>>> I also think it's unfortunate that we're unable to eat our own dog
>>> food and use the content app properly given that documentation is
>>> ultimately content embedded within OFBiz. It's a great use-case for
>>> improving the content app really.
>>>
>>> Regards
>>> Scott
>>>
>>> On 4/12/2012, at 7:58 AM, Olivier Heintz wrote:
>>>
>>>> I have tested the new OFBIz webhelp for the last 3 weeks and migrated
>>>> some help we already have (for projectmgr)
>>>>
>>>> On a end user perspective, webhelp is clearly an enhancement, because
>>>> search and glossary (and better presentation) help to find the correct
>>>> information more quickly.
>>>> On a help writer perspective, docbook file structure is easier to
>>>> understand that dataresource - content - contentAssoc - ...
>>>>
>>>> There are still some minors problems, but in each case I have found
>>>> (with Tom help sometime) how to solve it.
>>>>
>>>> I'm waiting a first release is publish to trunk to send jira with these
>>>> enhancements.
>>>>
>>>> User Help is one of the software quality criteria and webhelp will help
>>>> ofbiz community to have better one.
>>>> Tools is not everything, but it's a good step to motivate the community
>>>> to contribute in this area.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Le 28/11/2012 19:22, Jacques Le Roux a écrit :
>>>>> Bump ?
>>>>>
>>>>> Jacques
>>>>>
>>>>> Jacques Le Roux wrote:
>>>>>> Yes no problems. Depending on what you are starting from, you
>>>>>> will need to add binaries files (from my last patch) or not (Tom's
>>>>>> zips) but with zips you might get some issues, already blurred in my mind.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Jacques
>>>>>>
>>>>>> From: "Scott Gray" <sc...@hotwaxmedia.com>
>>>>>>> It's been all of 3 days since I asked you to wait for a thorough
>>>>>>> review, has that happened yet or will you just keep asking
>>>>>>> until no one can be bothered asking you to wait any longer?
>>>>>>> Patience is a virtue Jacques, the project has gone over 10 years
>>>>>>> without this feature and I don't think a few days/weeks/months
>>>>>>> will hurt any, especially considering the next release branch
>>>>>>> isn't due to be created for quite some time.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Regards
>>>>>>> Scott
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 19/11/2012, at 8:41 AM, Jacques Le Roux wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> We (Tom and I) are ready to commit the new help (webhelp -
>>>>>>>> OFBIZ-4941) in the content component where all work for us, and
>>>>>>>> will
>>>>>>>> be completed by Tom as he suggested. There are some trivial
>>>>>>>> Birt issues which will dissapear when the process will be
>>>>>>>> completed, see my last comment.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Is it ok to commit as is and to improve later? Mostly we want
>>>>>>>> to move webhelp outside of the content component in a new, to
>>>>>>>> stay OOTB, specialpurpose webehlp component. Or do you want
>>>>>>>> this addressed before? Note that if you want this addressed now
>>>>>>>> we
>>>>>>>> expect a rapid help from those who want that...
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Thanks
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Jacques
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>
Re: New OFBiz webhelp - OFBIZ-4941
Posted by Jacques Le Roux <ja...@les7arts.com>.
From: <ad...@sandglass-software.com>
> Scott,
>
> I agree with your last paragraph and I have suggested it in the past,
> but there doesn't seem to be much interest in it. There is a much
> simpler way to implement help that addresses all of our concerns:
Maybe and this could replace/improve what Tom proposed, but why wait or reject the current work?
> 1. Put Help URLs in the UI label files so they can be localized.
> 2. Use the Content component to store and display Help data.
> 3. Have each component initialize the database with Help data.
Maybe a POC could show the result and would make us able to compare with the current proposition
Of course not only in term of result but also of architecture.
> OFBiz OOTB could have some Help screens available in the Content
> component, but if a user wanted to use some other method, all they
> would need to do is change the Help URLs in the UI label files (to
> point to an internal Wiki for example).
The same can be achieved by Tom's proposition IIRW. It's just a matter or changing an URL
Jacques
> -Adrian
>
> Quoting Scott Gray <sc...@hotwaxmedia.com>:
>
>> I haven't had time yet, I was on a computer-free vacation last week
>> and now have a ton to catch up on.
>>
>> I've read the pdf document but it's light on implementation detail
>> so I guess I'll have to dig into the patch at some point.
>>
>> Thoughts/questions so far:
>> - The build time compilation is a concern IMO, I'd like to see a
>> help system that users can edit as needed with things like business
>> specific information and filling in gaps for custom enhancements
>> that the devs didn't document fully
>> - I think I saw somewhere that it is planned to commit the generated
>> help html? Why? Version control is for source code.
>> - How would this approach work in multi-tenanted systems where not
>> all apps are available to all tenants? If help is a complete
>> document I'm not sure how it could be restricted by context?
>>
>> I think it's important to make a distinction between the
>> 'prettiness' of the proposed implementation and the underlying design.
>>
>> I also think it's unfortunate that we're unable to eat our own dog
>> food and use the content app properly given that documentation is
>> ultimately content embedded within OFBiz. It's a great use-case for
>> improving the content app really.
>>
>> Regards
>> Scott
>>
>> On 4/12/2012, at 7:58 AM, Olivier Heintz wrote:
>>
>>> I have tested the new OFBIz webhelp for the last 3 weeks and migrated
>>> some help we already have (for projectmgr)
>>>
>>> On a end user perspective, webhelp is clearly an enhancement, because
>>> search and glossary (and better presentation) help to find the correct
>>> information more quickly.
>>> On a help writer perspective, docbook file structure is easier to
>>> understand that dataresource - content - contentAssoc - ...
>>>
>>> There are still some minors problems, but in each case I have found
>>> (with Tom help sometime) how to solve it.
>>>
>>> I'm waiting a first release is publish to trunk to send jira with these
>>> enhancements.
>>>
>>> User Help is one of the software quality criteria and webhelp will help
>>> ofbiz community to have better one.
>>> Tools is not everything, but it's a good step to motivate the community
>>> to contribute in this area.
>>>
>>>
>>> Le 28/11/2012 19:22, Jacques Le Roux a écrit :
>>>> Bump ?
>>>>
>>>> Jacques
>>>>
>>>> Jacques Le Roux wrote:
>>>>> Yes no problems. Depending on what you are starting from, you
>>>>> will need to add binaries files (from my last patch) or not (Tom's
>>>>> zips) but with zips you might get some issues, already blurred in my mind.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks
>>>>>
>>>>> Jacques
>>>>>
>>>>> From: "Scott Gray" <sc...@hotwaxmedia.com>
>>>>>> It's been all of 3 days since I asked you to wait for a thorough
>>>>>> review, has that happened yet or will you just keep asking
>>>>>> until no one can be bothered asking you to wait any longer?
>>>>>> Patience is a virtue Jacques, the project has gone over 10 years
>>>>>> without this feature and I don't think a few days/weeks/months
>>>>>> will hurt any, especially considering the next release branch
>>>>>> isn't due to be created for quite some time.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Regards
>>>>>> Scott
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 19/11/2012, at 8:41 AM, Jacques Le Roux wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> We (Tom and I) are ready to commit the new help (webhelp -
>>>>>>> OFBIZ-4941) in the content component where all work for us, and
>>>>>>> will
>>>>>>> be completed by Tom as he suggested. There are some trivial
>>>>>>> Birt issues which will dissapear when the process will be
>>>>>>> completed, see my last comment.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Is it ok to commit as is and to improve later? Mostly we want
>>>>>>> to move webhelp outside of the content component in a new, to
>>>>>>> stay OOTB, specialpurpose webehlp component. Or do you want
>>>>>>> this addressed before? Note that if you want this addressed now
>>>>>>> we
>>>>>>> expect a rapid help from those who want that...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thanks
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Jacques
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Re: New OFBiz webhelp - OFBIZ-4941
Posted by Adrian Crum <ad...@sandglass-software.com>.
Okay, now I understand. Yes, storing Help URLs in the Content
application is a good idea.
-Adrian
On 12/8/2012 4:41 AM, Scott Gray wrote:
> Surely the Content app would be a better place to store such URLs though?
>
> Besides as I mentioned earlier, I think the best strategy would be to allow URL generation to be overridden either via a service or interface.
>
> Regards
> Scott
>
> On 8/12/2012, at 3:39 AM, adrian.crum@sandglass-software.com wrote:
>
>> Yes, the Content application supports localization, but an external Wiki (or some other Help source) might not.
>>
>> -Adrian
>>
>> Quoting Scott Gray <sc...@hotwaxmedia.com>:
>>
>>> That would work but isn't the content component supposed to support localization itself?
>>>
>>> In regards to being able to swap out a help implementation, IMO all that is really required is a service that takes in a webSiteId, view name and locale which them returns a URL. In order to swap out the implementation it's then merely a matter of overriding that service with your own URL provider.
>>>
>>> Regards
>>> Scott
>>>
>>> On 5/12/2012, at 3:33 AM, adrian.crum@sandglass-software.com wrote:
>>>
>>>> Scott,
>>>>
>>>> I agree with your last paragraph and I have suggested it in the past, but there doesn't seem to be much interest in it. There is a much simpler way to implement help that addresses all of our concerns:
>>>>
>>>> 1. Put Help URLs in the UI label files so they can be localized.
>>>> 2. Use the Content component to store and display Help data.
>>>> 3. Have each component initialize the database with Help data.
>>>>
>>>> OFBiz OOTB could have some Help screens available in the Content component, but if a user wanted to use some other method, all they would need to do is change the Help URLs in the UI label files (to point to an internal Wiki for example).
>>>>
>>>> -Adrian
>>>>
>>>> Quoting Scott Gray <sc...@hotwaxmedia.com>:
>>>>
>>>>> I haven't had time yet, I was on a computer-free vacation last week and now have a ton to catch up on.
>>>>>
>>>>> I've read the pdf document but it's light on implementation detail so I guess I'll have to dig into the patch at some point.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thoughts/questions so far:
>>>>> - The build time compilation is a concern IMO, I'd like to see a help system that users can edit as needed with things like business specific information and filling in gaps for custom enhancements that the devs didn't document fully
>>>>> - I think I saw somewhere that it is planned to commit the generated help html? Why? Version control is for source code.
>>>>> - How would this approach work in multi-tenanted systems where not all apps are available to all tenants? If help is a complete document I'm not sure how it could be restricted by context?
>>>>>
>>>>> I think it's important to make a distinction between the 'prettiness' of the proposed implementation and the underlying design.
>>>>>
>>>>> I also think it's unfortunate that we're unable to eat our own dog food and use the content app properly given that documentation is ultimately content embedded within OFBiz. It's a great use-case for improving the content app really.
>>>>>
>>>>> Regards
>>>>> Scott
>>>>>
>>>>> On 4/12/2012, at 7:58 AM, Olivier Heintz wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> I have tested the new OFBIz webhelp for the last 3 weeks and migrated
>>>>>> some help we already have (for projectmgr)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On a end user perspective, webhelp is clearly an enhancement, because
>>>>>> search and glossary (and better presentation) help to find the correct
>>>>>> information more quickly.
>>>>>> On a help writer perspective, docbook file structure is easier to
>>>>>> understand that dataresource - content - contentAssoc - ...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> There are still some minors problems, but in each case I have found
>>>>>> (with Tom help sometime) how to solve it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'm waiting a first release is publish to trunk to send jira with these
>>>>>> enhancements.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> User Help is one of the software quality criteria and webhelp will help
>>>>>> ofbiz community to have better one.
>>>>>> Tools is not everything, but it's a good step to motivate the community
>>>>>> to contribute in this area.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Le 28/11/2012 19:22, Jacques Le Roux a écrit :
>>>>>>> Bump ?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Jacques
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Jacques Le Roux wrote:
>>>>>>>> Yes no problems. Depending on what you are starting from, you will need to add binaries files (from my last patch) or not (Tom's
>>>>>>>> zips) but with zips you might get some issues, already blurred in my mind.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Thanks
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Jacques
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> From: "Scott Gray" <sc...@hotwaxmedia.com>
>>>>>>>>> It's been all of 3 days since I asked you to wait for a thorough review, has that happened yet or will you just keep asking
>>>>>>>>> until no one can be bothered asking you to wait any longer? Patience is a virtue Jacques, the project has gone over 10 years
>>>>>>>>> without this feature and I don't think a few days/weeks/months will hurt any, especially considering the next release branch
>>>>>>>>> isn't due to be created for quite some time.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Regards
>>>>>>>>> Scott
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 19/11/2012, at 8:41 AM, Jacques Le Roux wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> We (Tom and I) are ready to commit the new help (webhelp - OFBIZ-4941) in the content component where all work for us, and will
>>>>>>>>>> be completed by Tom as he suggested. There are some trivial Birt issues which will dissapear when the process will be
>>>>>>>>>> completed, see my last comment.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Is it ok to commit as is and to improve later? Mostly we want to move webhelp outside of the content component in a new, to
>>>>>>>>>> stay OOTB, specialpurpose webehlp component. Or do you want this addressed before? Note that if you want this addressed now we
>>>>>>>>>> expect a rapid help from those who want that...
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Thanks
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Jacques
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>>
Re: New OFBiz webhelp - OFBIZ-4941
Posted by Scott Gray <sc...@hotwaxmedia.com>.
Surely the Content app would be a better place to store such URLs though?
Besides as I mentioned earlier, I think the best strategy would be to allow URL generation to be overridden either via a service or interface.
Regards
Scott
On 8/12/2012, at 3:39 AM, adrian.crum@sandglass-software.com wrote:
> Yes, the Content application supports localization, but an external Wiki (or some other Help source) might not.
>
> -Adrian
>
> Quoting Scott Gray <sc...@hotwaxmedia.com>:
>
>> That would work but isn't the content component supposed to support localization itself?
>>
>> In regards to being able to swap out a help implementation, IMO all that is really required is a service that takes in a webSiteId, view name and locale which them returns a URL. In order to swap out the implementation it's then merely a matter of overriding that service with your own URL provider.
>>
>> Regards
>> Scott
>>
>> On 5/12/2012, at 3:33 AM, adrian.crum@sandglass-software.com wrote:
>>
>>> Scott,
>>>
>>> I agree with your last paragraph and I have suggested it in the past, but there doesn't seem to be much interest in it. There is a much simpler way to implement help that addresses all of our concerns:
>>>
>>> 1. Put Help URLs in the UI label files so they can be localized.
>>> 2. Use the Content component to store and display Help data.
>>> 3. Have each component initialize the database with Help data.
>>>
>>> OFBiz OOTB could have some Help screens available in the Content component, but if a user wanted to use some other method, all they would need to do is change the Help URLs in the UI label files (to point to an internal Wiki for example).
>>>
>>> -Adrian
>>>
>>> Quoting Scott Gray <sc...@hotwaxmedia.com>:
>>>
>>>> I haven't had time yet, I was on a computer-free vacation last week and now have a ton to catch up on.
>>>>
>>>> I've read the pdf document but it's light on implementation detail so I guess I'll have to dig into the patch at some point.
>>>>
>>>> Thoughts/questions so far:
>>>> - The build time compilation is a concern IMO, I'd like to see a help system that users can edit as needed with things like business specific information and filling in gaps for custom enhancements that the devs didn't document fully
>>>> - I think I saw somewhere that it is planned to commit the generated help html? Why? Version control is for source code.
>>>> - How would this approach work in multi-tenanted systems where not all apps are available to all tenants? If help is a complete document I'm not sure how it could be restricted by context?
>>>>
>>>> I think it's important to make a distinction between the 'prettiness' of the proposed implementation and the underlying design.
>>>>
>>>> I also think it's unfortunate that we're unable to eat our own dog food and use the content app properly given that documentation is ultimately content embedded within OFBiz. It's a great use-case for improving the content app really.
>>>>
>>>> Regards
>>>> Scott
>>>>
>>>> On 4/12/2012, at 7:58 AM, Olivier Heintz wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I have tested the new OFBIz webhelp for the last 3 weeks and migrated
>>>>> some help we already have (for projectmgr)
>>>>>
>>>>> On a end user perspective, webhelp is clearly an enhancement, because
>>>>> search and glossary (and better presentation) help to find the correct
>>>>> information more quickly.
>>>>> On a help writer perspective, docbook file structure is easier to
>>>>> understand that dataresource - content - contentAssoc - ...
>>>>>
>>>>> There are still some minors problems, but in each case I have found
>>>>> (with Tom help sometime) how to solve it.
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm waiting a first release is publish to trunk to send jira with these
>>>>> enhancements.
>>>>>
>>>>> User Help is one of the software quality criteria and webhelp will help
>>>>> ofbiz community to have better one.
>>>>> Tools is not everything, but it's a good step to motivate the community
>>>>> to contribute in this area.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Le 28/11/2012 19:22, Jacques Le Roux a écrit :
>>>>>> Bump ?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Jacques
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Jacques Le Roux wrote:
>>>>>>> Yes no problems. Depending on what you are starting from, you will need to add binaries files (from my last patch) or not (Tom's
>>>>>>> zips) but with zips you might get some issues, already blurred in my mind.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thanks
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Jacques
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> From: "Scott Gray" <sc...@hotwaxmedia.com>
>>>>>>>> It's been all of 3 days since I asked you to wait for a thorough review, has that happened yet or will you just keep asking
>>>>>>>> until no one can be bothered asking you to wait any longer? Patience is a virtue Jacques, the project has gone over 10 years
>>>>>>>> without this feature and I don't think a few days/weeks/months will hurt any, especially considering the next release branch
>>>>>>>> isn't due to be created for quite some time.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Regards
>>>>>>>> Scott
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 19/11/2012, at 8:41 AM, Jacques Le Roux wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> We (Tom and I) are ready to commit the new help (webhelp - OFBIZ-4941) in the content component where all work for us, and will
>>>>>>>>> be completed by Tom as he suggested. There are some trivial Birt issues which will dissapear when the process will be
>>>>>>>>> completed, see my last comment.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Is it ok to commit as is and to improve later? Mostly we want to move webhelp outside of the content component in a new, to
>>>>>>>>> stay OOTB, specialpurpose webehlp component. Or do you want this addressed before? Note that if you want this addressed now we
>>>>>>>>> expect a rapid help from those who want that...
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Thanks
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Jacques
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Re: New OFBiz webhelp - OFBIZ-4941
Posted by ad...@sandglass-software.com.
Yes, the Content application supports localization, but an external
Wiki (or some other Help source) might not.
-Adrian
Quoting Scott Gray <sc...@hotwaxmedia.com>:
> That would work but isn't the content component supposed to support
> localization itself?
>
> In regards to being able to swap out a help implementation, IMO all
> that is really required is a service that takes in a webSiteId, view
> name and locale which them returns a URL. In order to swap out the
> implementation it's then merely a matter of overriding that service
> with your own URL provider.
>
> Regards
> Scott
>
> On 5/12/2012, at 3:33 AM, adrian.crum@sandglass-software.com wrote:
>
>> Scott,
>>
>> I agree with your last paragraph and I have suggested it in the
>> past, but there doesn't seem to be much interest in it. There is a
>> much simpler way to implement help that addresses all of our
>> concerns:
>>
>> 1. Put Help URLs in the UI label files so they can be localized.
>> 2. Use the Content component to store and display Help data.
>> 3. Have each component initialize the database with Help data.
>>
>> OFBiz OOTB could have some Help screens available in the Content
>> component, but if a user wanted to use some other method, all they
>> would need to do is change the Help URLs in the UI label files (to
>> point to an internal Wiki for example).
>>
>> -Adrian
>>
>> Quoting Scott Gray <sc...@hotwaxmedia.com>:
>>
>>> I haven't had time yet, I was on a computer-free vacation last
>>> week and now have a ton to catch up on.
>>>
>>> I've read the pdf document but it's light on implementation detail
>>> so I guess I'll have to dig into the patch at some point.
>>>
>>> Thoughts/questions so far:
>>> - The build time compilation is a concern IMO, I'd like to see a
>>> help system that users can edit as needed with things like
>>> business specific information and filling in gaps for custom
>>> enhancements that the devs didn't document fully
>>> - I think I saw somewhere that it is planned to commit the
>>> generated help html? Why? Version control is for source code.
>>> - How would this approach work in multi-tenanted systems where not
>>> all apps are available to all tenants? If help is a complete
>>> document I'm not sure how it could be restricted by context?
>>>
>>> I think it's important to make a distinction between the
>>> 'prettiness' of the proposed implementation and the underlying
>>> design.
>>>
>>> I also think it's unfortunate that we're unable to eat our own dog
>>> food and use the content app properly given that documentation is
>>> ultimately content embedded within OFBiz. It's a great use-case
>>> for improving the content app really.
>>>
>>> Regards
>>> Scott
>>>
>>> On 4/12/2012, at 7:58 AM, Olivier Heintz wrote:
>>>
>>>> I have tested the new OFBIz webhelp for the last 3 weeks and migrated
>>>> some help we already have (for projectmgr)
>>>>
>>>> On a end user perspective, webhelp is clearly an enhancement, because
>>>> search and glossary (and better presentation) help to find the correct
>>>> information more quickly.
>>>> On a help writer perspective, docbook file structure is easier to
>>>> understand that dataresource - content - contentAssoc - ...
>>>>
>>>> There are still some minors problems, but in each case I have found
>>>> (with Tom help sometime) how to solve it.
>>>>
>>>> I'm waiting a first release is publish to trunk to send jira with these
>>>> enhancements.
>>>>
>>>> User Help is one of the software quality criteria and webhelp will help
>>>> ofbiz community to have better one.
>>>> Tools is not everything, but it's a good step to motivate the community
>>>> to contribute in this area.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Le 28/11/2012 19:22, Jacques Le Roux a écrit :
>>>>> Bump ?
>>>>>
>>>>> Jacques
>>>>>
>>>>> Jacques Le Roux wrote:
>>>>>> Yes no problems. Depending on what you are starting from, you
>>>>>> will need to add binaries files (from my last patch) or not
>>>>>> (Tom's
>>>>>> zips) but with zips you might get some issues, already blurred
>>>>>> in my mind.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Jacques
>>>>>>
>>>>>> From: "Scott Gray" <sc...@hotwaxmedia.com>
>>>>>>> It's been all of 3 days since I asked you to wait for a
>>>>>>> thorough review, has that happened yet or will you just keep
>>>>>>> asking
>>>>>>> until no one can be bothered asking you to wait any longer?
>>>>>>> Patience is a virtue Jacques, the project has gone over 10 years
>>>>>>> without this feature and I don't think a few days/weeks/months
>>>>>>> will hurt any, especially considering the next release branch
>>>>>>> isn't due to be created for quite some time.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Regards
>>>>>>> Scott
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 19/11/2012, at 8:41 AM, Jacques Le Roux wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> We (Tom and I) are ready to commit the new help (webhelp -
>>>>>>>> OFBIZ-4941) in the content component where all work for us,
>>>>>>>> and will
>>>>>>>> be completed by Tom as he suggested. There are some trivial
>>>>>>>> Birt issues which will dissapear when the process will be
>>>>>>>> completed, see my last comment.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Is it ok to commit as is and to improve later? Mostly we want
>>>>>>>> to move webhelp outside of the content component in a new, to
>>>>>>>> stay OOTB, specialpurpose webehlp component. Or do you want
>>>>>>>> this addressed before? Note that if you want this addressed
>>>>>>>> now we
>>>>>>>> expect a rapid help from those who want that...
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Thanks
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Jacques
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
Re: New OFBiz webhelp - OFBIZ-4941
Posted by Scott Gray <sc...@hotwaxmedia.com>.
That would work but isn't the content component supposed to support localization itself?
In regards to being able to swap out a help implementation, IMO all that is really required is a service that takes in a webSiteId, view name and locale which them returns a URL. In order to swap out the implementation it's then merely a matter of overriding that service with your own URL provider.
Regards
Scott
On 5/12/2012, at 3:33 AM, adrian.crum@sandglass-software.com wrote:
> Scott,
>
> I agree with your last paragraph and I have suggested it in the past, but there doesn't seem to be much interest in it. There is a much simpler way to implement help that addresses all of our concerns:
>
> 1. Put Help URLs in the UI label files so they can be localized.
> 2. Use the Content component to store and display Help data.
> 3. Have each component initialize the database with Help data.
>
> OFBiz OOTB could have some Help screens available in the Content component, but if a user wanted to use some other method, all they would need to do is change the Help URLs in the UI label files (to point to an internal Wiki for example).
>
> -Adrian
>
> Quoting Scott Gray <sc...@hotwaxmedia.com>:
>
>> I haven't had time yet, I was on a computer-free vacation last week and now have a ton to catch up on.
>>
>> I've read the pdf document but it's light on implementation detail so I guess I'll have to dig into the patch at some point.
>>
>> Thoughts/questions so far:
>> - The build time compilation is a concern IMO, I'd like to see a help system that users can edit as needed with things like business specific information and filling in gaps for custom enhancements that the devs didn't document fully
>> - I think I saw somewhere that it is planned to commit the generated help html? Why? Version control is for source code.
>> - How would this approach work in multi-tenanted systems where not all apps are available to all tenants? If help is a complete document I'm not sure how it could be restricted by context?
>>
>> I think it's important to make a distinction between the 'prettiness' of the proposed implementation and the underlying design.
>>
>> I also think it's unfortunate that we're unable to eat our own dog food and use the content app properly given that documentation is ultimately content embedded within OFBiz. It's a great use-case for improving the content app really.
>>
>> Regards
>> Scott
>>
>> On 4/12/2012, at 7:58 AM, Olivier Heintz wrote:
>>
>>> I have tested the new OFBIz webhelp for the last 3 weeks and migrated
>>> some help we already have (for projectmgr)
>>>
>>> On a end user perspective, webhelp is clearly an enhancement, because
>>> search and glossary (and better presentation) help to find the correct
>>> information more quickly.
>>> On a help writer perspective, docbook file structure is easier to
>>> understand that dataresource - content - contentAssoc - ...
>>>
>>> There are still some minors problems, but in each case I have found
>>> (with Tom help sometime) how to solve it.
>>>
>>> I'm waiting a first release is publish to trunk to send jira with these
>>> enhancements.
>>>
>>> User Help is one of the software quality criteria and webhelp will help
>>> ofbiz community to have better one.
>>> Tools is not everything, but it's a good step to motivate the community
>>> to contribute in this area.
>>>
>>>
>>> Le 28/11/2012 19:22, Jacques Le Roux a écrit :
>>>> Bump ?
>>>>
>>>> Jacques
>>>>
>>>> Jacques Le Roux wrote:
>>>>> Yes no problems. Depending on what you are starting from, you will need to add binaries files (from my last patch) or not (Tom's
>>>>> zips) but with zips you might get some issues, already blurred in my mind.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks
>>>>>
>>>>> Jacques
>>>>>
>>>>> From: "Scott Gray" <sc...@hotwaxmedia.com>
>>>>>> It's been all of 3 days since I asked you to wait for a thorough review, has that happened yet or will you just keep asking
>>>>>> until no one can be bothered asking you to wait any longer? Patience is a virtue Jacques, the project has gone over 10 years
>>>>>> without this feature and I don't think a few days/weeks/months will hurt any, especially considering the next release branch
>>>>>> isn't due to be created for quite some time.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Regards
>>>>>> Scott
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 19/11/2012, at 8:41 AM, Jacques Le Roux wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> We (Tom and I) are ready to commit the new help (webhelp - OFBIZ-4941) in the content component where all work for us, and will
>>>>>>> be completed by Tom as he suggested. There are some trivial Birt issues which will dissapear when the process will be
>>>>>>> completed, see my last comment.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Is it ok to commit as is and to improve later? Mostly we want to move webhelp outside of the content component in a new, to
>>>>>>> stay OOTB, specialpurpose webehlp component. Or do you want this addressed before? Note that if you want this addressed now we
>>>>>>> expect a rapid help from those who want that...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thanks
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Jacques
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Re: New OFBiz webhelp - OFBIZ-4941
Posted by ad...@sandglass-software.com.
Scott,
I agree with your last paragraph and I have suggested it in the past,
but there doesn't seem to be much interest in it. There is a much
simpler way to implement help that addresses all of our concerns:
1. Put Help URLs in the UI label files so they can be localized.
2. Use the Content component to store and display Help data.
3. Have each component initialize the database with Help data.
OFBiz OOTB could have some Help screens available in the Content
component, but if a user wanted to use some other method, all they
would need to do is change the Help URLs in the UI label files (to
point to an internal Wiki for example).
-Adrian
Quoting Scott Gray <sc...@hotwaxmedia.com>:
> I haven't had time yet, I was on a computer-free vacation last week
> and now have a ton to catch up on.
>
> I've read the pdf document but it's light on implementation detail
> so I guess I'll have to dig into the patch at some point.
>
> Thoughts/questions so far:
> - The build time compilation is a concern IMO, I'd like to see a
> help system that users can edit as needed with things like business
> specific information and filling in gaps for custom enhancements
> that the devs didn't document fully
> - I think I saw somewhere that it is planned to commit the generated
> help html? Why? Version control is for source code.
> - How would this approach work in multi-tenanted systems where not
> all apps are available to all tenants? If help is a complete
> document I'm not sure how it could be restricted by context?
>
> I think it's important to make a distinction between the
> 'prettiness' of the proposed implementation and the underlying design.
>
> I also think it's unfortunate that we're unable to eat our own dog
> food and use the content app properly given that documentation is
> ultimately content embedded within OFBiz. It's a great use-case for
> improving the content app really.
>
> Regards
> Scott
>
> On 4/12/2012, at 7:58 AM, Olivier Heintz wrote:
>
>> I have tested the new OFBIz webhelp for the last 3 weeks and migrated
>> some help we already have (for projectmgr)
>>
>> On a end user perspective, webhelp is clearly an enhancement, because
>> search and glossary (and better presentation) help to find the correct
>> information more quickly.
>> On a help writer perspective, docbook file structure is easier to
>> understand that dataresource - content - contentAssoc - ...
>>
>> There are still some minors problems, but in each case I have found
>> (with Tom help sometime) how to solve it.
>>
>> I'm waiting a first release is publish to trunk to send jira with these
>> enhancements.
>>
>> User Help is one of the software quality criteria and webhelp will help
>> ofbiz community to have better one.
>> Tools is not everything, but it's a good step to motivate the community
>> to contribute in this area.
>>
>>
>> Le 28/11/2012 19:22, Jacques Le Roux a écrit :
>>> Bump ?
>>>
>>> Jacques
>>>
>>> Jacques Le Roux wrote:
>>>> Yes no problems. Depending on what you are starting from, you
>>>> will need to add binaries files (from my last patch) or not (Tom's
>>>> zips) but with zips you might get some issues, already blurred in my mind.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks
>>>>
>>>> Jacques
>>>>
>>>> From: "Scott Gray" <sc...@hotwaxmedia.com>
>>>>> It's been all of 3 days since I asked you to wait for a thorough
>>>>> review, has that happened yet or will you just keep asking
>>>>> until no one can be bothered asking you to wait any longer?
>>>>> Patience is a virtue Jacques, the project has gone over 10 years
>>>>> without this feature and I don't think a few days/weeks/months
>>>>> will hurt any, especially considering the next release branch
>>>>> isn't due to be created for quite some time.
>>>>>
>>>>> Regards
>>>>> Scott
>>>>>
>>>>> On 19/11/2012, at 8:41 AM, Jacques Le Roux wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> We (Tom and I) are ready to commit the new help (webhelp -
>>>>>> OFBIZ-4941) in the content component where all work for us, and
>>>>>> will
>>>>>> be completed by Tom as he suggested. There are some trivial
>>>>>> Birt issues which will dissapear when the process will be
>>>>>> completed, see my last comment.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Is it ok to commit as is and to improve later? Mostly we want
>>>>>> to move webhelp outside of the content component in a new, to
>>>>>> stay OOTB, specialpurpose webehlp component. Or do you want
>>>>>> this addressed before? Note that if you want this addressed now
>>>>>> we
>>>>>> expect a rapid help from those who want that...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Jacques
>>
>
>
Re: New OFBiz webhelp - OFBIZ-4941
Posted by Scott Gray <sc...@hotwaxmedia.com>.
I haven't had time yet, I was on a computer-free vacation last week and now have a ton to catch up on.
I've read the pdf document but it's light on implementation detail so I guess I'll have to dig into the patch at some point.
Thoughts/questions so far:
- The build time compilation is a concern IMO, I'd like to see a help system that users can edit as needed with things like business specific information and filling in gaps for custom enhancements that the devs didn't document fully
- I think I saw somewhere that it is planned to commit the generated help html? Why? Version control is for source code.
- How would this approach work in multi-tenanted systems where not all apps are available to all tenants? If help is a complete document I'm not sure how it could be restricted by context?
I think it's important to make a distinction between the 'prettiness' of the proposed implementation and the underlying design.
I also think it's unfortunate that we're unable to eat our own dog food and use the content app properly given that documentation is ultimately content embedded within OFBiz. It's a great use-case for improving the content app really.
Regards
Scott
On 4/12/2012, at 7:58 AM, Olivier Heintz wrote:
> I have tested the new OFBIz webhelp for the last 3 weeks and migrated
> some help we already have (for projectmgr)
>
> On a end user perspective, webhelp is clearly an enhancement, because
> search and glossary (and better presentation) help to find the correct
> information more quickly.
> On a help writer perspective, docbook file structure is easier to
> understand that dataresource - content - contentAssoc - ...
>
> There are still some minors problems, but in each case I have found
> (with Tom help sometime) how to solve it.
>
> I'm waiting a first release is publish to trunk to send jira with these
> enhancements.
>
> User Help is one of the software quality criteria and webhelp will help
> ofbiz community to have better one.
> Tools is not everything, but it's a good step to motivate the community
> to contribute in this area.
>
>
> Le 28/11/2012 19:22, Jacques Le Roux a écrit :
>> Bump ?
>>
>> Jacques
>>
>> Jacques Le Roux wrote:
>>> Yes no problems. Depending on what you are starting from, you will need to add binaries files (from my last patch) or not (Tom's
>>> zips) but with zips you might get some issues, already blurred in my mind.
>>>
>>> Thanks
>>>
>>> Jacques
>>>
>>> From: "Scott Gray" <sc...@hotwaxmedia.com>
>>>> It's been all of 3 days since I asked you to wait for a thorough review, has that happened yet or will you just keep asking
>>>> until no one can be bothered asking you to wait any longer? Patience is a virtue Jacques, the project has gone over 10 years
>>>> without this feature and I don't think a few days/weeks/months will hurt any, especially considering the next release branch
>>>> isn't due to be created for quite some time.
>>>>
>>>> Regards
>>>> Scott
>>>>
>>>> On 19/11/2012, at 8:41 AM, Jacques Le Roux wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>
>>>>> We (Tom and I) are ready to commit the new help (webhelp - OFBIZ-4941) in the content component where all work for us, and will
>>>>> be completed by Tom as he suggested. There are some trivial Birt issues which will dissapear when the process will be
>>>>> completed, see my last comment.
>>>>>
>>>>> Is it ok to commit as is and to improve later? Mostly we want to move webhelp outside of the content component in a new, to
>>>>> stay OOTB, specialpurpose webehlp component. Or do you want this addressed before? Note that if you want this addressed now we
>>>>> expect a rapid help from those who want that...
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks
>>>>>
>>>>> Jacques
>
Re: New OFBiz webhelp - OFBIZ-4941
Posted by Olivier Heintz <ho...@nereide.biz>.
I have tested the new OFBIz webhelp for the last 3 weeks and migrated
some help we already have (for projectmgr)
On a end user perspective, webhelp is clearly an enhancement, because
search and glossary (and better presentation) help to find the correct
information more quickly.
On a help writer perspective, docbook file structure is easier to
understand that dataresource - content - contentAssoc - ...
There are still some minors problems, but in each case I have found
(with Tom help sometime) how to solve it.
I'm waiting a first release is publish to trunk to send jira with these
enhancements.
User Help is one of the software quality criteria and webhelp will help
ofbiz community to have better one.
Tools is not everything, but it's a good step to motivate the community
to contribute in this area.
Le 28/11/2012 19:22, Jacques Le Roux a écrit :
> Bump ?
>
> Jacques
>
> Jacques Le Roux wrote:
>> Yes no problems. Depending on what you are starting from, you will need to add binaries files (from my last patch) or not (Tom's
>> zips) but with zips you might get some issues, already blurred in my mind.
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>> Jacques
>>
>> From: "Scott Gray" <sc...@hotwaxmedia.com>
>>> It's been all of 3 days since I asked you to wait for a thorough review, has that happened yet or will you just keep asking
>>> until no one can be bothered asking you to wait any longer? Patience is a virtue Jacques, the project has gone over 10 years
>>> without this feature and I don't think a few days/weeks/months will hurt any, especially considering the next release branch
>>> isn't due to be created for quite some time.
>>>
>>> Regards
>>> Scott
>>>
>>> On 19/11/2012, at 8:41 AM, Jacques Le Roux wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi,
>>>>
>>>> We (Tom and I) are ready to commit the new help (webhelp - OFBIZ-4941) in the content component where all work for us, and will
>>>> be completed by Tom as he suggested. There are some trivial Birt issues which will dissapear when the process will be
>>>> completed, see my last comment.
>>>>
>>>> Is it ok to commit as is and to improve later? Mostly we want to move webhelp outside of the content component in a new, to
>>>> stay OOTB, specialpurpose webehlp component. Or do you want this addressed before? Note that if you want this addressed now we
>>>> expect a rapid help from those who want that...
>>>>
>>>> Thanks
>>>>
>>>> Jacques
Re: New OFBiz webhelp - OFBIZ-4941
Posted by Jacques Le Roux <ja...@les7arts.com>.
Hi Scott,
Did you get a chance to begin the review, do you expect to do it soon?
Thanks
Jacques
Jacques Le Roux wrote:
> Bump ?
>
> Jacques
>
> Jacques Le Roux wrote:
>> Yes no problems. Depending on what you are starting from, you will need to add binaries files (from my last patch) or not (Tom's
>> zips) but with zips you might get some issues, already blurred in my mind.
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>> Jacques
>>
>> From: "Scott Gray" <sc...@hotwaxmedia.com>
>>> It's been all of 3 days since I asked you to wait for a thorough review, has that happened yet or will you just keep asking
>>> until no one can be bothered asking you to wait any longer? Patience is a virtue Jacques, the project has gone over 10 years
>>> without this feature and I don't think a few days/weeks/months will hurt any, especially considering the next release branch
>>> isn't due to be created for quite some time.
>>>
>>> Regards
>>> Scott
>>>
>>> On 19/11/2012, at 8:41 AM, Jacques Le Roux wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi,
>>>>
>>>> We (Tom and I) are ready to commit the new help (webhelp - OFBIZ-4941) in the content component where all work for us, and will
>>>> be completed by Tom as he suggested. There are some trivial Birt issues which will dissapear when the process will be
>>>> completed, see my last comment.
>>>>
>>>> Is it ok to commit as is and to improve later? Mostly we want to move webhelp outside of the content component in a new, to
>>>> stay OOTB, specialpurpose webehlp component. Or do you want this addressed before? Note that if you want this addressed now we
>>>> expect a rapid help from those who want that...
>>>>
>>>> Thanks
>>>>
>>>> Jacques
Re: New OFBiz webhelp - OFBIZ-4941
Posted by Jacques Le Roux <ja...@les7arts.com>.
Bump ?
Jacques
Jacques Le Roux wrote:
> Yes no problems. Depending on what you are starting from, you will need to add binaries files (from my last patch) or not (Tom's
> zips) but with zips you might get some issues, already blurred in my mind.
>
> Thanks
>
> Jacques
>
> From: "Scott Gray" <sc...@hotwaxmedia.com>
>> It's been all of 3 days since I asked you to wait for a thorough review, has that happened yet or will you just keep asking
>> until no one can be bothered asking you to wait any longer? Patience is a virtue Jacques, the project has gone over 10 years
>> without this feature and I don't think a few days/weeks/months will hurt any, especially considering the next release branch
>> isn't due to be created for quite some time.
>>
>> Regards
>> Scott
>>
>> On 19/11/2012, at 8:41 AM, Jacques Le Roux wrote:
>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> We (Tom and I) are ready to commit the new help (webhelp - OFBIZ-4941) in the content component where all work for us, and will
>>> be completed by Tom as he suggested. There are some trivial Birt issues which will dissapear when the process will be
>>> completed, see my last comment.
>>>
>>> Is it ok to commit as is and to improve later? Mostly we want to move webhelp outside of the content component in a new, to
>>> stay OOTB, specialpurpose webehlp component. Or do you want this addressed before? Note that if you want this addressed now we
>>> expect a rapid help from those who want that...
>>>
>>> Thanks
>>>
>>> Jacques
Re: New OFBiz webhelp - OFBIZ-4941
Posted by Jacques Le Roux <ja...@les7arts.com>.
Yes no problems. Depending on what you are starting from, you will need to add binaries files (from my last patch) or not (Tom's zips) but with zips you might get some issues, already blurred in my mind.
Thanks
Jacques
From: "Scott Gray" <sc...@hotwaxmedia.com>
> It's been all of 3 days since I asked you to wait for a thorough review, has that happened yet or will you just keep asking until no one can be bothered asking you to wait any longer? Patience is a virtue Jacques, the project has gone over 10 years without this feature and I don't think a few days/weeks/months will hurt any, especially considering the next release branch isn't due to be created for quite some time.
>
> Regards
> Scott
>
> On 19/11/2012, at 8:41 AM, Jacques Le Roux wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> We (Tom and I) are ready to commit the new help (webhelp - OFBIZ-4941) in the content component where all work for us, and will be completed by Tom as he suggested.
>> There are some trivial Birt issues which will dissapear when the process will be completed, see my last comment.
>>
>> Is it ok to commit as is and to improve later? Mostly we want to move webhelp outside of the content component in a new, to stay OOTB, specialpurpose webehlp component.
>> Or do you want this addressed before? Note that if you want this addressed now we expect a rapid help from those who want that...
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>> Jacques
>
>
Re: New OFBiz webhelp - OFBIZ-4941
Posted by Scott Gray <sc...@hotwaxmedia.com>.
It's been all of 3 days since I asked you to wait for a thorough review, has that happened yet or will you just keep asking until no one can be bothered asking you to wait any longer? Patience is a virtue Jacques, the project has gone over 10 years without this feature and I don't think a few days/weeks/months will hurt any, especially considering the next release branch isn't due to be created for quite some time.
Regards
Scott
On 19/11/2012, at 8:41 AM, Jacques Le Roux wrote:
> Hi,
>
> We (Tom and I) are ready to commit the new help (webhelp - OFBIZ-4941) in the content component where all work for us, and will be completed by Tom as he suggested.
> There are some trivial Birt issues which will dissapear when the process will be completed, see my last comment.
>
> Is it ok to commit as is and to improve later? Mostly we want to move webhelp outside of the content component in a new, to stay OOTB, specialpurpose webehlp component.
> Or do you want this addressed before? Note that if you want this addressed now we expect a rapid help from those who want that...
>
> Thanks
>
> Jacques
Re: New OFBiz webhelp - OFBIZ-4941
Posted by Hans Bakker <ma...@antwebsystems.com>.
commit now +1
Regards,
Hans
On 11/19/2012 02:41 AM, Jacques Le Roux wrote:
> Hi,
>
> We (Tom and I) are ready to commit the new help (webhelp - OFBIZ-4941) in the content component where all work for us, and will be completed by Tom as he suggested.
> There are some trivial Birt issues which will dissapear when the process will be completed, see my last comment.
>
> Is it ok to commit as is and to improve later? Mostly we want to move webhelp outside of the content component in a new, to stay OOTB, specialpurpose webehlp component.
> Or do you want this addressed before? Note that if you want this addressed now we expect a rapid help from those who want that...
>
> Thanks
>
> Jacques