Re: Maven community was: [ANN] Maven XDoc Plug-in 1.9.2 released

[Brett Porter <br...@apache.org>]

Henning Schmiedehausen wrote:

>a) I'm aware that this is not Jakarta. It is Maven. So rules are 
>   probably different (I'm not on the Maven PMC, so all I know are the 
>   public pages on maven.apache.org which is not really much. So I
>   considered the main apache rules from apache.org to apply)
>  
>
Ok, please point out anything specific here and we'll look into it.

http://www.apache.org/foundation/voting.html#ReleaseVotes
Says 3 binding votes (we had 4 and one non-binding, we now have 6 for
good measure :)
It does say they should be run for 72 hours. It is not strongly worded,
and I'd much prefer we have the habit of only tabling the release when
it has been under discussion and then going ahead after enough binding
votes are recorded.

>My concerns are of a different nature: The ASF is a people driven
>organization. It is about participation. About people swapping opinions,
>discussing topics. Agreeing. Not agreeing. This means, there are a few
>rules to which everyone and every project should try to hold up. One of
>them is voting and voting periods. 
>  
>
As for the rest, I agree with you on the principles - but don't agree it
is something the Maven community is suffering from.

On this particular release, it has been a week since you brought it up -
we've had people testing it in the mean time. The vote was really only
called after we thought people were happy with it, not as a call to test.

>If you don't want or care about these reactions, then a project is no
>longer people and community driven. Which is _the_ _main_ _point_ of all
>ASF projects. This is what I meant with 'just watching the big guys
>doing their thing'. 
>
Well, that's not the intention. We do care about this, and we try hard
to include people. Which is probably more why I took offense than
anything else.

>Apache and Apache projects is about "everyone can
>participate". 
>  
>
We've added a number of committers recently, all who are still regularly
contributing, and doing a great job I might add. I think that indicates
that we must be doing something right and that people can participate.

Are there any committers/observers who feel left out? Please speak up!
I'd like to hear from others on their opinion about the health of the
community. Feel free to say nice things about it to, and what you think
works well.

For anyone that wants to know more about Apache, here are some helpful
links:
http://www.apache.org/dev/committers.html
http://www.apache.org/foundation/faq.html#what-is-apache-about
http://www.apache.org/foundation/voting.html

I think everyone should be familiar with this.

>The mail went to the users-list because the announcement was sent only
>there (I couldn't find it on the dev list, but this can be due to my
>personal mailing list setup, if this is the case then apologies). I
>agree that -dev is the better choice.
>  
>
It was a simple mistake, no problem.

Cheers,
Brett

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Re: Maven community was: [ANN] Maven XDoc Plug-in 1.9.2 released

[Martijn Dashorst <ma...@gmail.com>]

> 
> Are there any committers/observers who feel left out? Please speak up!


I don't feel left out, I tend to only respond to things I feel I can 
contribute on, or have an opinion about. I think the community is pretty 
solid and considering the number of messages I recieve on a daily basis 
(excluding the JIRA spam ;-)), I think the community is thriving.

Voting is sometimes artificial IMO. When someone is recommended for 
inclusion in the core project for instance, I've yet to see one -1 vote. It 
feels more like ceremony than real practical value. When voting for plugin 
releases, I think the current process is ok. If someone is monitoring the 
mailinglists, he/she can pull the breaks when he/she feels that a release of 
a plugin is too soon. When the most important and recent players on a 
particular plugin have voted +1, I'd say release.

The only 'gripe' I have is that it takes too long for 1.1 to become final, 
I'd liked it when more development effort had been put into releasing
1.1somewhere in june, but I don't think that is a huge problem though.
1.0.2 is still working wonders for me.

Go team!

Martijn