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Posted to users@subversion.apache.org by Rick Yorgason <ri...@ldagames.com> on 2007/03/21 22:53:58 UTC

Very large rev files

I have another performance issue with our Subversion repository 
(although if anybody would like to take a look at my existing issue 
<http://subversion.tigris.org/servlets/ReadMsg?list=users&msgNo=63804> 
it would be appreciated).

The problem now is that many of my rev files are much bigger than I 
assume they should be.  I've taken a sample file from my real-world 
repository and imported a few revisions into a clean repository to 
showcase the issue.  Check it out:

> skorpion@katrina:<<svntest/repo/db/revs$> ls -lh
> total 71026
> -rw-r--r--  1 skorpion  skorpion   115B 20 Mar 22:52 0
> -rw-r--r--  1 skorpion  skorpion    25M 21 Mar 02:40 1
> -rw-r--r--  1 skorpion  skorpion    22M 21 Mar 02:55 2
> -rw-r--r--  1 skorpion  skorpion    22M 21 Mar 03:10 3
> skorpion@katrina:<<svntest/repo/db/revs$> cd ../../..
> skorpion@katrina:~/code/sandbox/svntest$> svn co file:///home/skorpion/code/sandbox/svntest/repo/co@1 1
> A    1/Greece_Full.map
> Checked out revision 1.
> skorpion@katrina:~/code/sandbox/svntest$> svn co file:///home/skorpion/code/sandbox/svntest/repo/co@2 2
> A    2/Greece_Full.map
> Checked out revision 2.
> skorpion@katrina:~/code/sandbox/svntest$> svn co file:///home/skorpion/code/sandbox/svntest/repo/co@3 3
> A    3/Greece_Full.map
> Checked out revision 3.
> skorpion@katrina:~/code/sandbox/svntest$> ls -lh 1 2 3
> 1:
> total 56512
> -rw-r--r--  1 skorpion  skorpion    55M 21 Mar 17:24 Greece_Full.map
> 
> 2:
> total 56512
> -rw-r--r--  1 skorpion  skorpion    55M 21 Mar 18:02 Greece_Full.map
> 
> 3:
> total 56512
> -rw-r--r--  1 skorpion  skorpion    55M 21 Mar 18:05 Greece_Full.map
> skorpion@katrina:~/code/sandbox/svntest$> xdelta delta 1/Greece_Full.map 2/Greece_Full.map 1to2.diff
> skorpion@katrina:~/code/sandbox/svntest$> xdelta delta 2/Greece_Full.map 3/Greece_Full.map 2to3.diff
> skorpion@katrina:~/code/sandbox/svntest$> ls -lh 1to2.diff 2to3.diff
> -rw-r--r--  1 skorpion  skorpion    25K 21 Mar 18:18 1to2.diff
> -rw-r--r--  1 skorpion  skorpion    25K 21 Mar 18:20 2to3.diff

As you can see, the rev file is *one thousand* times bigger than the 
delta that the xdelta utility produces.

Greece_Full.map doesn't have any sort of compression on it.  It's mostly 
a giant bitmap with a lot of header information, that changes in size 
with each revision.

Anybody know what's going on?

-Rick-
This was tested on FreeBSD with svn 1.4.3 and xdelta 1.1.3, although the 
issue was originally tested with svn 1.4.0 on Windows 2000 via Apache 
with the Windows version of xdelta 1.1.3.

Anybody know what's going on?

-Rick-

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Re: Very large rev files

Posted by Rick Yorgason <ri...@ldagames.com>.
Rick Yorgason wrote:
> Here's my results:
> 
>>  Rev#        Raw    db/revs Xdelta3 -0    Xdelta3 Xdelta3 -9     Xdelta
>> Total       5.1G       2.0G         4M         3M         2M         3M
> 
> That's a little difficult to swallow.

Just wanted to let anybody who's paying attention to the thread (or 
found it via Google in hopes that it would solve their problem) know 
that the discrepancy has been tracked down (thanks in no small part to 
the devs):

<http://subversion.tigris.org/servlets/ReadMsg?list=dev&msgNo=125518>.

Unfortunately there's no real fix without enhancing Subversion.  Ah well.

-Rick-

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Re: Very large rev files

Posted by Rick Yorgason <ri...@ldagames.com>.
Roy Franz wrote:
> Rick - you should try using xdelta with the -0 option, as this
> prevents zlib compression of the output.  Since your data sets sound
> very compressible, this could be part of what is making xdelta produce
> much smaller results.

Good call.  I've done some more experiments, this time with 93 revisions 
of my test file in a test repository using xdelta3 
<http://www.xdelta.org/> and xdelta 
<http://evanjones.ca/software/xdelta-win32.html>.  There's no -0 test 
for xdelta, because it seems the Windows port ignores the compression 
flag and always uses the default.  I also didn't want to test this on my 
FreeBSD machine (which has a working implementation of xdelta), because 
it's slow and all the way across the Internet.

Here's my results:

>  Rev#        Raw    db/revs Xdelta3 -0    Xdelta3 Xdelta3 -9     Xdelta
>     0                   115                                 
>     1        55M        26M                                 
>     2        55M        23M       501K       445K       378K       327K
>     3        55M        23M       129K       120K       100K       100K
>     4        55M        23M        89K        76K        56K        82K
>     5        55M        23M        23K        21K        16K        29K
>     6        55M        22M        47K        44K        28K        50K
>     7        55M        22M        13K        13K        11K        19K
>     8        55M        22M        11K        11K       8.8K        19K
>     9        55M        23M        20K        19K       8.7K        17K
>    10        55M        22M       9.1K       9.4K       8.0K        19K
>    11        55M        22M        14K        14K        13K        22K
>    12        55M        23M        44K        43K        41K        46K
>    13        55M        23M        16K        16K        14K        23K
>    14        55M        22M        38K        37K        33K        39K
>    15        55M        22M        18K        14K        11K        22K
>    16        55M        23M        43K        43K        39K        43K
>    17        55M        23M        21K        20K        18K        26K
>    18        55M        23M        89K        89K        83K        82K
>    19        55M        23M        16K        17K       8.5K        18K
>    20        55M        26K        862        765        721        823
>    21        55M        23M        14K        14K        11K        21K
>    22        55M        22M        24K        24K        20K        38K
>    23        55M        22M        22K        20K        16K        27K
>    24        55M        22M        16K        16K        13K        21K
>    25        55M        23M        15K        15K        13K        21K
>    26        55M        22M        37K        38K        22K        39K
>    27        55M        22M        12K        12K       8.3K        18K
>    28        55M        22M        13K        13K       9.0K        19K
>    29        55M        22M        18K        18K        17K        26K
>    30        55M       489K        12K       9.7K       8.4K       9.0K
>    31        55M        22M        18K        17K        14K        25K
>    32        55M        22M        27K        27K        18K        32K
>    33        55M        23M        22K        19K        17K        29K
>    34        55M        22M        19K        18K        16K        26K
>    35        55M        22M        19K        17K        12K        22K
>    36        55M        22M        12K        12K       9.1K        20K
>    37        55M        22M        18K        17K        15K        25K
>    38        55M        22M        18K        17K        14K        23K
>    39        55M        22M        29K        23K        18K        28K
>    40        55M        22M        14K        13K        11K        22K
>    41        55M        23M        26K        23K        15K        24K
>    42        55M        22M        16K        16K       9.8K        21K
>    43        55M        22M        15K        14K        11K        20K
>    44        55M        22M        24K        21K        17K        27K
>    45        55M        22M        30K        26K        21K        37K
>    46        55M        22M        49K        47K        25K        43K
>    47        55M        22M        27K        24K        19K        29K
>    48        55M        22M        34K        33K        28K        43K
>    49        55M        23M        19K        18K        14K        23K
>    50        55M        22M        14K        13K        11K        21K
>    51        55M        22M        13K        13K       8.9K        18K
>    52        55M        22M        16K        15K        12K        22K
>    53        55M        22M        18K        17K        15K        24K
>    54        55M        22M        20K        18K        14K        25K
>    55        55M        22M        21K        19K        13K        23K
>    56        56M        22M        24K        21K        18K        29K
>    57        56M        23M        28K        26K        21K        31K
>    58        56M        22M        25K        24K        16K        29K
>    59        56M        23M        53K        49K        44K        54K
>    60        56M        22M        35K        34K        30K        40K
>    61        56M        23M        30K        29K        26K        35K
>    62        56M        22M        19K        18K        14K        24K
>    63        56M        22M        16K        16K        13K        25K
>    64        56M        22M        17K        15K        12K        22K
>    65        56M        23M        14K        14K        11K        22K
>    66        56M        22M        14K        14K       8.9K        20K
>    67        56M        22M        17K        16K        10K        19K
>    68        56M        22M        17K        17K        14K        24K
>    69        56M        22M        15K        15K        12K        22K
>    70        56M        22M        13K        12K       9.3K        20K
>    71        56M        22M        25K        21K        11K        22K
>    72        56M        22M        20K        18K        13K        26K
>    73        56M        22M        15K        16K        11K        24K
>    74        56M        22M        28K        28K        20K        34K
>    75        56M        22M        31K        30K        23K        33K
>    76        56M        23M        81K        78K        72K        76K
>    77        56M        23M        36K        35K        32K        42K
>    78        56M        22M        42K        41K        30K        38K
>    79        56M        23M        27K        26K        19K        31K
>    80        56M        22M        19K        18K        12K        25K
>    81        56M        23M        16K        16K        12K        25K
>    82        56M        22M        21K        19K        15K        25K
>    83        56M        22M        51K        47K        17K        29K
>    84        56M        22M        44K        44K        23K        45K
>    85        56M        22M        43K        39K        14K        25K
>    86        56M        22M        17K        16K        13K        23K
>    87        56M        22M        14K        14K        11K        18K
>    88        56M        22M        16K        18K       9.7K        20K
>    89        56M        23M        99K        91K        56K        82K
>    90        56M        22M        44K        39K        29K        46K
>    91        56M        22M       134K        36K        26K        48K
>    92        56M        22M        23K        22K        16K        29K
>    93        56M        23M       214K       174K       131K       151K
>    94        56M        23M       579K       125K        92K       142K
>                                                             
> Total       5.1G       2.0G         4M         3M         2M         3M

That's a little difficult to swallow.

Maybe when I get some time I'll do another test with some long Wikipedia 
page and an svn nightly.

-Rick-

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Re: Very large rev files

Posted by Roy Franz <ro...@gmail.com>.
On 3/21/07, Rick Yorgason <ri...@ldagames.com> wrote:
> Ryan Schmidt wrote:
> > I assume this is because Subversion does not necessarily delta against
> > the immediately previous revision. See this document describing
> > "skip-deltas":
> >
> > http://svn.collab.net/repos/svn/trunk/notes/skip-deltas
>
> Okay, but wouldn't that imply that at least *some* of the revs would
> have ideal file sizes?
>
> Here's the sizes of all the revs that this file this file touches in a
> real-world repository.  In most of these cases, (*all* of the cases that
> are 37/38M) the commit contains this 55M file, with 20 files that are 1M
> big, and no other files.
>
> Because of the data set these extra 20 files should also delta compress
> exceedingly well (they're 512x512 uncompressed R8G8B8A8 images,
> containing greyscale data which is mostly white, and completely white
> for the last two thirds of the file, in every revision).  However, even
> if you subtract 20M from each of these revisions, almost all of them are
> still much larger than the ideal size.
>
> By the explanation provided in the notes on skip-deltas, you would
> expect there to be a wide variety of file sizes that are logarithmically
> smaller, with every odd-numbered one being ideal (with a delta that's
> less than 1M), but you clearly don't see that.
>
> The few that are closer to ideal are r2011, r2091, and r2143.  If it
> matters at all, these three revisions happened when we still used
> svnserve instead of Apache (those are all dated 'Nov 1' because I dumped
> and reloaded the repository for some reason or other).  All the other
> small revs are lazy copies.
>
> For interest case, revs 1 2 and 3 in my last email were created from
> revs 5682 5691 and 5700 in the real-world repository.
>
> > Administrator@bender /cygdrive/e/Server/SVN/db/revs
> > $ ls -lh `svn log -q file:///e:/Server/SVN/Hegemony/trunk/Release/Resources/Data/Greece_Full.map | grep -v '^-' | sed 's/r\([0-9]*\).*/\1/' | tr '\n' ' '`
> > -rwxrwxrwx 1 Administrators None   207M Nov  1 14:51 105
> > -rwxrwxrwx 1 Administrators None   3.6K Nov  1 14:51 1698
> > -rwxrwxrwx 1 Administrators None    37M Nov  1 14:52 1766
> > -rwxrwxrwx 1 Administrators None    40M Nov  1 14:53 1774
> > -rwxrwxrwx 1 Administrators None    37M Nov  1 14:53 1776
snipped....



I just did some experiments along these lines to see how well the
xdelta compression works for large files.  (We have some large binary
files, and we want
to know what the impact on the repository size would be if we check them in.)

In general, it seemed to do an OK job, but I also see the xdelta program doing
a much better job.  I was using a test repository, and adding the
file, then checking in
one (or more) updates so that I could easily tell what revision in
subversion the delta should be based upon.  The first update will
always be a delta from the original
checkin if I understand the skip-delta documentation correctly.

For one of the files, xdelta -0 -p produced a 7 Mbyte delta file, while the
subversion revision was 27 Mbytes.  Other revisions that I checked had
sizes that were 2-3 times as big as the xdelta output.

Rick - you should try using xdelta with the -0 option, as this
prevents zlib compression of the output.  Since your data sets sound
very compressible, this could be part of what is making xdelta produce
much smaller results.

Since my test data was a big tar file, I also found that the -p option
(makes xdelta not peek inside gzip compressed data) made my deltas
much bigger.  (I am comparing the subversion revision size to the
worst case output from the xdelta program.)

I also tried a few experiments with gzipped files, and found that gzip
with the --rsyncable flag did better than uncompressed by a small
margin, and that normal gzipping did much worse.


It looks like there may be (significant) room for improvement in the
binary delta handling in subversion.  Do any lurking developers know
what xdelta and subersion might be doing differently?


Roy

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Re: Very large rev files

Posted by Rick Yorgason <ri...@ldagames.com>.
Ryan Schmidt wrote:
> I assume this is because Subversion does not necessarily delta against 
> the immediately previous revision. See this document describing 
> "skip-deltas":
> 
> http://svn.collab.net/repos/svn/trunk/notes/skip-deltas

Okay, but wouldn't that imply that at least *some* of the revs would 
have ideal file sizes?

Here's the sizes of all the revs that this file this file touches in a 
real-world repository.  In most of these cases, (*all* of the cases that 
are 37/38M) the commit contains this 55M file, with 20 files that are 1M 
big, and no other files.

Because of the data set these extra 20 files should also delta compress 
exceedingly well (they're 512x512 uncompressed R8G8B8A8 images, 
containing greyscale data which is mostly white, and completely white 
for the last two thirds of the file, in every revision).  However, even 
if you subtract 20M from each of these revisions, almost all of them are 
still much larger than the ideal size.

By the explanation provided in the notes on skip-deltas, you would 
expect there to be a wide variety of file sizes that are logarithmically 
smaller, with every odd-numbered one being ideal (with a delta that's 
less than 1M), but you clearly don't see that.

The few that are closer to ideal are r2011, r2091, and r2143.  If it 
matters at all, these three revisions happened when we still used 
svnserve instead of Apache (those are all dated 'Nov 1' because I dumped 
and reloaded the repository for some reason or other).  All the other 
small revs are lazy copies.

For interest case, revs 1 2 and 3 in my last email were created from 
revs 5682 5691 and 5700 in the real-world repository.

> Administrator@bender /cygdrive/e/Server/SVN/db/revs
> $ ls -lh `svn log -q file:///e:/Server/SVN/Hegemony/trunk/Release/Resources/Data/Greece_Full.map | grep -v '^-' | sed 's/r\([0-9]*\).*/\1/' | tr '\n' ' '`
> -rwxrwxrwx 1 Administrators None   207M Nov  1 14:51 105
> -rwxrwxrwx 1 Administrators None   3.6K Nov  1 14:51 1698
> -rwxrwxrwx 1 Administrators None    37M Nov  1 14:52 1766
> -rwxrwxrwx 1 Administrators None    40M Nov  1 14:53 1774
> -rwxrwxrwx 1 Administrators None    37M Nov  1 14:53 1776
> -rwxrwxrwx 1 Administrators None    41M Nov  1 14:53 1782
> -rwxrwxrwx 1 Administrators None    40M Nov  1 14:54 1783
> -rwxrwxrwx 1 Administrators None    37M Nov  1 14:54 1784
> -rwxrwxrwx 1 Administrators None    42M Nov  1 14:54 1791
> -rwxrwxrwx 1 Administrators None    37M Nov  1 14:54 1802
> -rwxrwxrwx 1 Administrators None    39M Nov  1 14:54 1808
> -rwxrwxrwx 1 Administrators None    39M Nov  1 14:54 1809
> -rwxrwxrwx 1 Administrators None    42M Nov  1 14:55 1820
> -rwxrwxrwx 1 Administrators None    37M Nov  1 14:55 1826
> -rwxrwxrwx 1 Administrators None    37M Nov  1 14:55 1830
> -rwxrwxrwx 1 Administrators None    37M Nov  1 14:57 1872
> -rwxrwxrwx 1 Administrators None    37M Nov  1 14:57 1874
> -rwxrwxrwx 1 Administrators None    40M Nov  1 14:57 1876
> -rwxrwxrwx 1 Administrators None    37M Nov  1 14:58 1898
> -rwxrwxrwx 1 Administrators None    40M Nov  1 14:58 1899
> -rwxrwxrwx 1 Administrators None    40M Nov  1 14:59 1906
> -rwxrwxrwx 1 Administrators None    38M Nov  1 14:59 1907
> -rwxrwxrwx 1 Administrators None    37M Nov  1 14:59 1911
> -rwxrwxrwx 1 Administrators None    37M Nov  1 14:59 1919
> -rwxrwxrwx 1 Administrators None    40M Nov  1 15:00 1966
> -rwxrwxrwx 1 Administrators None    37M Nov  1 15:00 1968
> -rwxrwxrwx 1 Administrators None    40M Nov  1 15:14 1970
> -rwxrwxrwx 1 Administrators None    37M Nov  1 15:00 1973
> -rwxrwxrwx 1 Administrators None    37M Nov  1 15:01 1979
> -rwxrwxrwx 1 Administrators None    40M Nov  1 15:01 1986
> -rwxrwxrwx 1 Administrators None    39M Nov  1 15:01 1987
> -rwxrwxrwx 1 Administrators None    41M Nov  1 15:01 1988
> -rwxrwxrwx 1 Administrators None    40M Nov  1 15:02 1989
> -rwxrwxrwx 1 Administrators None    41M Nov  1 15:04 2003
> -rwxrwxrwx 1 Administrators None    37M Nov  1 15:04 2010
> -rwxrwxrwx 1 Administrators None   117K Nov  1 15:04 2011
> -rwxrwxrwx 1 Administrators None    37M Nov  1 15:05 2012
> -rwxrwxrwx 1 Administrators None    39M Nov  1 15:05 2013
> -rwxrwxrwx 1 Administrators None    37M Nov  1 15:05 2014
> -rwxrwxrwx 1 Administrators None    37M Nov  1 15:05 2015
> -rwxrwxrwx 1 Administrators None    37M Nov  1 15:06 2016
> -rwxrwxrwx 1 Administrators None    37M Nov  1 15:06 2028
> -rwxrwxrwx 1 Administrators None    37M Nov  1 15:06 2029
> -rwxrwxrwx 1 Administrators None    37M Nov  1 15:06 2030
> -rwxrwxrwx 1 Administrators None    37M Nov  1 15:07 2032
> -rwxrwxrwx 1 Administrators None    37M Nov  1 15:07 2038
> -rwxrwxrwx 1 Administrators None    37M Nov  1 15:07 2042
> -rwxrwxrwx 1 Administrators None    39M Nov  1 15:07 2051
> -rwxrwxrwx 1 Administrators None    37M Nov  1 15:08 2052
> -rwxrwxrwx 1 Administrators None    38M Nov  1 15:08 2055
> -rwxrwxrwx 1 Administrators None    37M Nov  1 15:08 2056
> -rwxrwxrwx 1 Administrators None    41M Nov  1 15:08 2062
> -rwxrwxrwx 1 Administrators None    37M Nov  1 15:09 2067
> -rwxrwxrwx 1 Administrators None    38M Nov  1 15:09 2071
> -rwxrwxrwx 1 Administrators None    39M Nov  1 15:09 2075
> -rwxrwxrwx 1 Administrators None    37M Nov  1 15:10 2082
> -rwxrwxrwx 1 Administrators None    39M Nov  1 15:10 2088
> -rwxrwxrwx 1 Administrators None   1.5M Nov  1 15:10 2091
> -rwxrwxrwx 1 Administrators None    37M Nov  1 15:12 2110
> -rwxrwxrwx 1 Administrators None    38M Nov  1 15:12 2116
> -rwxrwxrwx 1 Administrators None    38M Nov  1 15:12 2123
> -rwxrwxrwx 1 Administrators None    37M Nov  1 15:13 2125
> -rwxrwxrwx 1 Administrators None    39M Nov  1 15:13 2126
> -rwxrwxrwx 1 Administrators None    38M Nov  1 15:13 2128
> -rwxrwxrwx 1 Administrators None    37M Nov  1 15:14 2129
> -rwxrwxrwx 1 Administrators None   701K Nov  1 15:14 2143
> -rwxrwxrwx 1 Administrators None    41M Nov  1 15:14 2161
> -rwxrwxrwx 1 Administrators None    39M Nov  1 15:15 2162
> -rwxrwxrwx 1 Administrators None    38M Nov  1 15:15 2165
> -rwxrwxrwx 1 Administrators None    37M Nov  1 15:15 2166
> -rwxrwxrwx 1 Administrators None    37M Nov  1 15:16 2168
> -rwxrwxrwx 1 Administrators None    42M Nov  1 15:16 2172
> -rwxrwxrwx 1 Administrators None    41M Nov  1 15:16 2173
> -rwxrwxrwx 1 Administrators None    37M Nov  1 15:16 2174
> -rwxrwxrwx 1 Administrators None    39M Nov  1 15:16 2175
> -rwxrwxrwx 1 Administrators None    38M Nov  1 15:17 2178
> -rwxrwxrwx 1 Administrators None    42M Nov  1 15:17 2179
> -rwxrwxrwx 1 Administrators None    40M Nov  1 15:17 2180
> -rwxrwxrwx 1 Administrators None    37M Nov  1 15:18 2181
> -rwxrwxrwx 1 Administrators None    39M Nov  1 15:18 2207
> -rwxrwxrwx 1 Administrators None    40M Nov  1 15:18 2208
> -rwxrwxrwx 1 Administrators None    38M Nov  1 15:18 2215
> -rwxrwxrwx 1 Administrators None    38M Nov  1 15:19 2219
> -rwxrwxrwx 1 Administrators None    38M Nov  1 15:19 2220
> -rwxrwxrwx 1 Administrators None    38M Nov  1 15:19 2224
> -rwxrwxrwx 1 Administrators None    38M Nov  1 15:19 2225
> -rwxrwxrwx 1 Administrators None    39M Nov  1 15:19 2226
> -rwxrwxrwx 1 Administrators None    37M Nov  1 15:34 2263
> -rwxrwxrwx 1 Administrators None    37M Nov  1 15:34 2269
> -rwxrwxrwx 1 Administrators None    37M Nov  1 15:34 2272
> -rwxrwxrwx 1 Administrators None    37M Nov  1 15:34 2274
> -rwxrwxrwx 1 Administrators None    37M Nov  1 15:34 2283
> -rwxrwxrwx 1 Administrators None    37M Nov  1 15:35 2284
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-Rick-

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Re: Very large rev files

Posted by Ryan Schmidt <su...@ryandesign.com>.
On Mar 21, 2007, at 17:53, Rick Yorgason wrote:

> I have another performance issue with our Subversion repository  
> (although if anybody would like to take a look at my existing issue  
> <http://subversion.tigris.org/servlets/ReadMsg? 
> list=users&msgNo=63804> it would be appreciated).
>
> The problem now is that many of my rev files are much bigger than I  
> assume they should be.  I've taken a sample file from my real-world  
> repository and imported a few revisions into a clean repository to  
> showcase the issue.  Check it out:

[snip]

> As you can see, the rev file is *one thousand* times bigger than  
> the delta that the xdelta utility produces.

[snip]

I assume this is because Subversion does not necessarily delta  
against the immediately previous revision. See this document  
describing "skip-deltas":

http://svn.collab.net/repos/svn/trunk/notes/skip-deltas


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