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Posted to dev@netbeans.apache.org by Michael Bien <mb...@gmail.com> on 2022/11/02 18:16:01 UTC
[DISCUSS] tweak some defaults for NB17?
Hi devs,
I have a list of options I usually change when setting up NetBeans. If
other devs are doing the same, maybe we could set some by default.
Lets see:
grouped tab list (tools -> options -> appearance -> doc tabs -> and
check "Sort opened documents list by project")
This feature got some fixes recently and there are also more PRs
pending: #4792
"New document opens next to active document tab" (same setting panel as
above):
I found this fairly useful when there are a lot of tabs open since it
keeps recent opened tabs closer together.
Firefox can do that too, but its off by default - might be an argument
to leave it off if it is not intuitive enough.
small toolbar icons:
I still use 1080p screens since they simply don't want to break. Which
is why one of the first things I change is to switch to small toolbar icons.
The big ones always remind me on Toys-R-Us. Are the small icons useable
on 4k? Should we make this the default?
view -> show versioning label:
Super useful. Shows the [branch] next to the project name/files.
Git -> Show History... could show more items by default. Since
everything is local. No good reason to paginate this starting with 10 items.
bump max file size editor open warning:
Editor asks before opening large files, this value can be probably
increased a bit given that hardware improved. (basically every second
log file will cause this warning)
this one might be controversial since its about tabs:
switch tab size default from 8 to 4 (tools -> options -> editor ->
formatting -> tab size). (java files only?)
Most shell editors still use 8 spaces to represent a tab character, but
everything on the web these days uses 4 by default (e.g github, i think
gitlab too). You can see in PRs who doesn't change that setting :)
show no transfer progress for maven artifact downloads (tools -> options
-> java -> maven -> execution)
--no-transfer-progress flag set in global execution options
The output window doesn't handle displaying the download progress very
well. It only adds to the noise in most cases.
lets concentrate on the uncontroversial, and lets not change too much at
once :)
that is all I had in my notes - more suggestions welcome of course,
best regards,
michael
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Re: [DISCUSS] tweak some defaults for NB17?
Posted by Scott Palmer <sw...@gmail.com>.
On Thu, Nov 3, 2022 at 12:31 PM Neil C Smith <ne...@apache.org> wrote:
...
> Well, one lesson is making clear where the settings are when we change
> defaults, so that those who preferred the way things were know how to
> revert.
>
On that note, while reading this thread I decided to try the small icons
for myself... It took me a while to find the option because my first
instinct was to go to the preferences panel and find it on the Look and
Feel section. Not finding it there, I searched the General section and
anything else, but the option isn't there! I finally found it by
right-clicking the toolbar. I think it's great that it is available from
the toolbar context menu, but that option should also be found in the
Preferences dialog.
(I then reverted that change because the small toolbar icons are too small
for me. Keep the default as it is.)
Scott
Re: [DISCUSS] tweak some defaults for NB17?
Posted by Neil C Smith <ne...@apache.org>.
On Thu, 3 Nov 2022 at 16:11, Michael Bien <mb...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> On 03.11.22 10:11, Neil C Smith wrote:
> > +1 to most of the changes, but ...
> >
> > On Thu, 3 Nov 2022 at 01:53, John Neffenger <jo...@status6.com> wrote:
> >>> small toolbar icons:
> >> Those are very tiny on my 109-dpi (non-HiDPI) 27-inch monitor.
> > Agreed! -1 to changing the icon default size. Have to say I keep
> > them larger on all displays, from 27-inch main display, down to old HD
> > laptop. Find them unusable at smaller size.
>
> lets disqualify that idea early :) Although I have to wonder.. wouldn't
> those small toolbar icons be the exact same size as all other icons too?
>
> If they are hard to see, how do you distinguish between file type icons?
Seeing them isn't the problem (yet). Accurately clicking the right
thing with my clumsy old hands might be! :-)
Mind you, I rarely use the toolbar anyway, so I can live with any
change. But for people starting out who are more likely to, I do
think the current size works.
> any news from the svg icon front btw?
Good question.
> > Actually, I don't entirely think that, although I think there's some
> > improvement to make in the UI for them judging from recent comments.
> > A lesson in there on changing defaults ...
>
> yeah, there is probably more granularity needed than just on and off.
> Esp once more kinds of inline-hints appear.
Well, one lesson is making clear where the settings are when we change
defaults, so that those who preferred the way things were know how to
revert.
Best wishes,
Neil
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Re: [DISCUSS] tweak some defaults for NB17?
Posted by Michael Bien <mb...@gmail.com>.
On 03.11.22 10:11, Neil C Smith wrote:
> +1 to most of the changes, but ...
>
> On Thu, 3 Nov 2022 at 01:53, John Neffenger <jo...@status6.com> wrote:
>>> small toolbar icons:
>> Those are very tiny on my 109-dpi (non-HiDPI) 27-inch monitor.
> Agreed! -1 to changing the icon default size. Have to say I keep
> them larger on all displays, from 27-inch main display, down to old HD
> laptop. Find them unusable at smaller size.
lets disqualify that idea early :) Although I have to wonder.. wouldn't
those small toolbar icons be the exact same size as all other icons too?
If they are hard to see, how do you distinguish between file type icons?
any news from the svg icon front btw?
>
>>> view -> show versioning label:
>> That adds clutter, in my opinion, but I do most Git operations in an
>> external terminal window.
> I find the labels useful even in that case. Except occasionally when
> things don't align with CLI git!
I used to use them as last check to see if i was about to push the
correct branch. Although I am starting to use the long form now:
git push repo_url from_branch:to_branch
so that nothing is implied anymore - everything is in that line.
>> While we're at it, let's add '--strict-checksums' too! That one should
>> have been the Maven default years ago, but Maven isn't enabling it until
>> version 4.0:
>>
>> Switch the default checksum policy from "warn" to "fail"
>> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/MNG-5728
> Possibly a good idea. There's a wider discussion about default Maven
> options, pom, project template, etc. there. I think we should follow
> best practices from upstream Maven, even if that means at times no
> longer following the defaults.
>
> In all this tweaking, possibly switching inline hints back off?! :-)
yes please :) Although I intentionally didn't mention this one, since
this is going to be controversial.
> Actually, I don't entirely think that, although I think there's some
> improvement to make in the UI for them judging from recent comments.
> A lesson in there on changing defaults ...
yeah, there is probably more granularity needed than just on and off.
Esp once more kinds of inline-hints appear.
-mbien
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Neil
>
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Re: [DISCUSS] tweak some defaults for NB17?
Posted by Neil C Smith <ne...@apache.org>.
+1 to most of the changes, but ...
On Thu, 3 Nov 2022 at 01:53, John Neffenger <jo...@status6.com> wrote:
> > small toolbar icons:
>
> Those are very tiny on my 109-dpi (non-HiDPI) 27-inch monitor.
Agreed! -1 to changing the icon default size. Have to say I keep
them larger on all displays, from 27-inch main display, down to old HD
laptop. Find them unusable at smaller size.
> > view -> show versioning label:
>
> That adds clutter, in my opinion, but I do most Git operations in an
> external terminal window.
I find the labels useful even in that case. Except occasionally when
things don't align with CLI git!
> While we're at it, let's add '--strict-checksums' too! That one should
> have been the Maven default years ago, but Maven isn't enabling it until
> version 4.0:
>
> Switch the default checksum policy from "warn" to "fail"
> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/MNG-5728
Possibly a good idea. There's a wider discussion about default Maven
options, pom, project template, etc. there. I think we should follow
best practices from upstream Maven, even if that means at times no
longer following the defaults.
In all this tweaking, possibly switching inline hints back off?! :-)
Actually, I don't entirely think that, although I think there's some
improvement to make in the UI for them judging from recent comments.
A lesson in there on changing defaults ...
Best wishes,
Neil
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Re: [DISCUSS] tweak some defaults for NB17?
Posted by Michael Bien <mb...@gmail.com>.
On 04.11.22 14:12, Michael Bien wrote:
> On 04.11.22 12:14, Mark Herkrath wrote:
>> About the small toolbar icons, I would vote for small being the default
>> also.
>>
>> However, isn't the real issue that NB resets the toolbar icons to large
>> whenever it is being upgraded?
>
> yes that too, I have that on my list of things i would like to fix one
> day. If it is stored in a property it would be fairly easy to migrate,
> if it is part of other UI setting xmls it might not.
>
> etc/netbeans.import is just a list of paths to copy over.
it is stored in
.netbeans/16/config/Wondows2Local/WindowManager.wswmgr which is a XML
with a bunch of other settings and also UI state in it. Probably not
safe to copy that over.
-mbien
>
> -mbien
>
>>
>> Mark
>>
>> On Fri, Nov 4, 2022 at 7:15 AM Thomas Kellerer <sh...@gmx.net> wrote:
>>
>>> John Neffenger schrieb am 03.11.2022 um 02:53:
>>>> On 11/2/22 11:16 AM, Michael Bien wrote:
>>>>> small toolbar icons:
>>>> Those are very tiny on my 109-dpi (non-HiDPI) 27-inch monitor.
>>> I am using a 27 HiDPI monitor (3840*2160) and I always switch back to
>>> small icons
>>> Windows is set to scale everything to 175%
>>>
>>> Thomas
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
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>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>
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Re: [DISCUSS] tweak some defaults for NB17?
Posted by Michael Bien <mb...@gmail.com>.
On 04.11.22 12:14, Mark Herkrath wrote:
> About the small toolbar icons, I would vote for small being the default
> also.
>
> However, isn't the real issue that NB resets the toolbar icons to large
> whenever it is being upgraded?
yes that too, I have that on my list of things i would like to fix one
day. If it is stored in a property it would be fairly easy to migrate,
if it is part of other UI setting xmls it might not.
etc/netbeans.import is just a list of paths to copy over.
-mbien
>
> Mark
>
> On Fri, Nov 4, 2022 at 7:15 AM Thomas Kellerer <sh...@gmx.net> wrote:
>
>> John Neffenger schrieb am 03.11.2022 um 02:53:
>>> On 11/2/22 11:16 AM, Michael Bien wrote:
>>>> small toolbar icons:
>>> Those are very tiny on my 109-dpi (non-HiDPI) 27-inch monitor.
>> I am using a 27 HiDPI monitor (3840*2160) and I always switch back to
>> small icons
>> Windows is set to scale everything to 175%
>>
>> Thomas
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
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>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@netbeans.apache.org
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>>
>>
>>
>>
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Re: [DISCUSS] tweak some defaults for NB17?
Posted by Mark Herkrath <he...@googlemail.com.INVALID>.
About the small toolbar icons, I would vote for small being the default
also.
However, isn't the real issue that NB resets the toolbar icons to large
whenever it is being upgraded?
Mark
On Fri, Nov 4, 2022 at 7:15 AM Thomas Kellerer <sh...@gmx.net> wrote:
> John Neffenger schrieb am 03.11.2022 um 02:53:
> > On 11/2/22 11:16 AM, Michael Bien wrote:
> >> small toolbar icons:
> >
> > Those are very tiny on my 109-dpi (non-HiDPI) 27-inch monitor.
>
> I am using a 27 HiDPI monitor (3840*2160) and I always switch back to
> small icons
> Windows is set to scale everything to 175%
>
> Thomas
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@netbeans.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@netbeans.apache.org
>
> For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
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>
>
>
>
Re: [DISCUSS] tweak some defaults for NB17?
Posted by Thomas Kellerer <sh...@gmx.net>.
John Neffenger schrieb am 03.11.2022 um 02:53:
> On 11/2/22 11:16 AM, Michael Bien wrote:
>> small toolbar icons:
>
> Those are very tiny on my 109-dpi (non-HiDPI) 27-inch monitor.
I am using a 27 HiDPI monitor (3840*2160) and I always switch back to small icons
Windows is set to scale everything to 175%
Thomas
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Re: [DISCUSS] tweak some defaults for NB17?
Posted by John Neffenger <jo...@status6.com>.
On 11/2/22 11:16 AM, Michael Bien wrote:
> grouped tab list (tools -> options -> appearance -> doc tabs -> and
> check "Sort opened documents list by project")
Okay by me.
> small toolbar icons:
Those are very tiny on my 109-dpi (non-HiDPI) 27-inch monitor.
> view -> show versioning label:
That adds clutter, in my opinion, but I do most Git operations in an
external terminal window.
> Git -> Show History... could show more items by default. Since
> everything is local. No good reason to paginate this starting with 10
> items.
Agreed! Especially when you're working on old code and you have to keep
clicking "Load next 30 days" 100 times just to get the first commit. :-)
> --no-transfer-progress flag set in global execution options
I didn't know about that one. That looks helpful.
While we're at it, let's add '--strict-checksums' too! That one should
have been the Maven default years ago, but Maven isn't enabling it until
version 4.0:
Switch the default checksum policy from "warn" to "fail"
https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/MNG-5728
Thanks,
John
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Re: [DISCUSS] tweak some defaults for NB17?
Posted by John Neffenger <jo...@status6.com>.
On 11/2/22 11:16 AM, Michael Bien wrote:
> I have a list of options I usually change when setting up NetBeans.
One more I would add: change the default keyboard shortcuts for shifting
editor tabs from their current values of:
Shift Window Tab Left - Ctrl+Alt+Shift+LEFT
Shift Window Tab Right - Ctrl+Alt+Shift+RIGHT
to the Web browser (Chromium, Firefox) defaults of:
Shift Window Tab Left - Ctrl+Shift+PAGE UP
Shift Window Tab Right - Ctrl+Shift+PAGE DOWN
I use those shortcuts all the time, as I find the NetBeans drag-and-drop
to be a little squirrelly.
The current defaults do nothing on Ubuntu. I think they would normally
move the current application window to the workspace to the right, but
on Ubuntu 20.04 LTS the workspaces are vertical, so nothing happens.
By the way, I remember being able to add those shortcuts as
alternatives, and the old values would remain. Now when I add the new
ones as alternatives, the old ones are gone.
John
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RE: [DISCUSS] tweak some defaults for NB17?
Posted by Eirik Bakke <eb...@ultorg.com>.
> small toolbar icons:
> I still use 1080p screens since they simply don't want to break. Which is why one of the first things I change is to switch to small toolbar icons.
> The big ones always remind me on Toys-R-Us. Are the small icons useable on 4k? Should we make this the default?
One advantage of activating "Small Toolbar Icons" by default is that every icon would be 16x16 logical pixels everywhere by default. The large toolbar icons have a rather odd 24x24 size, which means some actions (e.g. Undo/Redo) currently appear with (slightly) different icon art in the toolbar and the menu bar.
-- Eirik
-----Original Message-----
From: Michael Bien <mb...@gmail.com>
Sent: Wednesday, November 2, 2022 2:16 PM
To: dev@netbeans.apache.org
Subject: [DISCUSS] tweak some defaults for NB17?
Hi devs,
I have a list of options I usually change when setting up NetBeans. If other devs are doing the same, maybe we could set some by default.
Lets see:
grouped tab list (tools -> options -> appearance -> doc tabs -> and
check "Sort opened documents list by project")
This feature got some fixes recently and there are also more PRs
pending: #4792
"New document opens next to active document tab" (same setting panel as
above):
I found this fairly useful when there are a lot of tabs open since it
keeps recent opened tabs closer together.
Firefox can do that too, but its off by default - might be an argument
to leave it off if it is not intuitive enough.
small toolbar icons:
I still use 1080p screens since they simply don't want to break. Which
is why one of the first things I change is to switch to small toolbar icons.
The big ones always remind me on Toys-R-Us. Are the small icons useable
on 4k? Should we make this the default?
view -> show versioning label:
Super useful. Shows the [branch] next to the project name/files.
Git -> Show History... could show more items by default. Since
everything is local. No good reason to paginate this starting with 10 items.
bump max file size editor open warning:
Editor asks before opening large files, this value can be probably
increased a bit given that hardware improved. (basically every second
log file will cause this warning)
this one might be controversial since its about tabs:
switch tab size default from 8 to 4 (tools -> options -> editor ->
formatting -> tab size). (java files only?)
Most shell editors still use 8 spaces to represent a tab character, but
everything on the web these days uses 4 by default (e.g github, i think
gitlab too). You can see in PRs who doesn't change that setting :)
show no transfer progress for maven artifact downloads (tools -> options
-> java -> maven -> execution)
--no-transfer-progress flag set in global execution options
The output window doesn't handle displaying the download progress very
well. It only adds to the noise in most cases.
lets concentrate on the uncontroversial, and lets not change too much at
once :)
that is all I had in my notes - more suggestions welcome of course,
best regards,
michael
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Re: [DISCUSS] tweak some defaults for NB17?
Posted by Arnaud bourree <ar...@gmail.com>.
Hi,
My two cents about version label.
I work on one git repo within more than 200 poms. I don't open other
project at the same time.
So all my opened projects share the same git label.
Having label displayed is very useful.
In my use case displaying it in windows title could be better but not
possible today.
I understand my use case could be not the main use case because it's better
to split big repo.
Regardes,
Arnaud
Le mer. 9 nov. 2022, 17:04, Michael Bien <mb...@gmail.com> a écrit :
> I got 3 draft PRs to offer so far:
>
> bump file size warning trigger:
> https://github.com/apache/netbeans/pull/4949
>
> sort docs by project by default (tab dropdown popup):
> https://github.com/apache/netbeans/pull/4948
>
> tweaks to file history and "show history" UI:
> https://github.com/apache/netbeans/pull/4951
>
>
> I think we should consider doing --no-transfer-progress for maven too.
> Since the output window doesn't handle the progress indications very
> well and it does have already more than enough regex hacks in it, which
> can cause the weirdest issues (we can probably fix #4017 as side effect).
>
>
> anything else? the tabs size default to 4 chars maybe? versioning labels
> by default? (lets forget about the icons ;))
>
>
> On 04.11.22 00:08, John Neffenger wrote:
> > One more I would add: change the default keyboard shortcuts for
> > shifting editor tabs from
>
> i do like the idea of having consistency with the browsers. However,
> doesn't the NB binding make a bit more sense? ;) left/right seems to be
> more intuitive than page up/down for tab movement. I also never used
> that binding before so i don't really have an opinion on that one.
>
>
> thanks for the feedback so far!
>
> -mbien
>
>
> On 02.11.22 19:16, Michael Bien wrote:
> > Hi devs,
> >
> > I have a list of options I usually change when setting up NetBeans. If
> > other devs are doing the same, maybe we could set some by default.
> >
> >
> > Lets see:
> >
> > grouped tab list (tools -> options -> appearance -> doc tabs -> and
> > check "Sort opened documents list by project")
> >
> > This feature got some fixes recently and there are also more PRs
> > pending: #4792
> >
> >
> > "New document opens next to active document tab" (same setting panel
> > as above):
> >
> > I found this fairly useful when there are a lot of tabs open since it
> > keeps recent opened tabs closer together.
> >
> > Firefox can do that too, but its off by default - might be an argument
> > to leave it off if it is not intuitive enough.
> >
> >
> > small toolbar icons:
> >
> > I still use 1080p screens since they simply don't want to break. Which
> > is why one of the first things I change is to switch to small toolbar
> > icons.
> >
> > The big ones always remind me on Toys-R-Us. Are the small icons
> > useable on 4k? Should we make this the default?
> >
> >
> > view -> show versioning label:
> >
> > Super useful. Shows the [branch] next to the project name/files.
> >
> >
> > Git -> Show History... could show more items by default. Since
> > everything is local. No good reason to paginate this starting with 10
> > items.
> >
> >
> > bump max file size editor open warning:
> >
> > Editor asks before opening large files, this value can be probably
> > increased a bit given that hardware improved. (basically every second
> > log file will cause this warning)
> >
> >
> > this one might be controversial since its about tabs:
> >
> > switch tab size default from 8 to 4 (tools -> options -> editor ->
> > formatting -> tab size). (java files only?)
> >
> > Most shell editors still use 8 spaces to represent a tab character,
> > but everything on the web these days uses 4 by default (e.g github, i
> > think gitlab too). You can see in PRs who doesn't change that setting :)
> >
> >
> > show no transfer progress for maven artifact downloads (tools ->
> > options -> java -> maven -> execution)
> >
> > --no-transfer-progress flag set in global execution options
> >
> > The output window doesn't handle displaying the download progress very
> > well. It only adds to the noise in most cases.
> >
> >
> > lets concentrate on the uncontroversial, and lets not change too much
> > at once :)
> >
> > that is all I had in my notes - more suggestions welcome of course,
> >
> > best regards,
> >
> > michael
> >
> >
>
>
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Re: [DISCUSS] tweak some defaults for NB17?
Posted by Michael Bien <mb...@gmail.com>.
I got 3 draft PRs to offer so far:
bump file size warning trigger:
https://github.com/apache/netbeans/pull/4949
sort docs by project by default (tab dropdown popup):
https://github.com/apache/netbeans/pull/4948
tweaks to file history and "show history" UI:
https://github.com/apache/netbeans/pull/4951
I think we should consider doing --no-transfer-progress for maven too.
Since the output window doesn't handle the progress indications very
well and it does have already more than enough regex hacks in it, which
can cause the weirdest issues (we can probably fix #4017 as side effect).
anything else? the tabs size default to 4 chars maybe? versioning labels
by default? (lets forget about the icons ;))
On 04.11.22 00:08, John Neffenger wrote:
> One more I would add: change the default keyboard shortcuts for
> shifting editor tabs from
i do like the idea of having consistency with the browsers. However,
doesn't the NB binding make a bit more sense? ;) left/right seems to be
more intuitive than page up/down for tab movement. I also never used
that binding before so i don't really have an opinion on that one.
thanks for the feedback so far!
-mbien
On 02.11.22 19:16, Michael Bien wrote:
> Hi devs,
>
> I have a list of options I usually change when setting up NetBeans. If
> other devs are doing the same, maybe we could set some by default.
>
>
> Lets see:
>
> grouped tab list (tools -> options -> appearance -> doc tabs -> and
> check "Sort opened documents list by project")
>
> This feature got some fixes recently and there are also more PRs
> pending: #4792
>
>
> "New document opens next to active document tab" (same setting panel
> as above):
>
> I found this fairly useful when there are a lot of tabs open since it
> keeps recent opened tabs closer together.
>
> Firefox can do that too, but its off by default - might be an argument
> to leave it off if it is not intuitive enough.
>
>
> small toolbar icons:
>
> I still use 1080p screens since they simply don't want to break. Which
> is why one of the first things I change is to switch to small toolbar
> icons.
>
> The big ones always remind me on Toys-R-Us. Are the small icons
> useable on 4k? Should we make this the default?
>
>
> view -> show versioning label:
>
> Super useful. Shows the [branch] next to the project name/files.
>
>
> Git -> Show History... could show more items by default. Since
> everything is local. No good reason to paginate this starting with 10
> items.
>
>
> bump max file size editor open warning:
>
> Editor asks before opening large files, this value can be probably
> increased a bit given that hardware improved. (basically every second
> log file will cause this warning)
>
>
> this one might be controversial since its about tabs:
>
> switch tab size default from 8 to 4 (tools -> options -> editor ->
> formatting -> tab size). (java files only?)
>
> Most shell editors still use 8 spaces to represent a tab character,
> but everything on the web these days uses 4 by default (e.g github, i
> think gitlab too). You can see in PRs who doesn't change that setting :)
>
>
> show no transfer progress for maven artifact downloads (tools ->
> options -> java -> maven -> execution)
>
> --no-transfer-progress flag set in global execution options
>
> The output window doesn't handle displaying the download progress very
> well. It only adds to the noise in most cases.
>
>
> lets concentrate on the uncontroversial, and lets not change too much
> at once :)
>
> that is all I had in my notes - more suggestions welcome of course,
>
> best regards,
>
> michael
>
>
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