You are viewing a plain text version of this content. The canonical link for it is here.
Posted to docs-dev@perl.apache.org by Stas Bekman <st...@stason.org> on 2002/03/25 18:32:03 UTC
modperl site status/road map
There are four things left to be completed before we can release the new
site:
# Item Owner Completion Estimated time
---------------------------------------------------------------
1. complete the design Allan 90% about one week
2. fine-tune the search Bill 90% about one week
3. work on the content ??? 70% need help here
4. logo graphics Jonathan ??? ???
We still didn't hear what happens to the winner log/buttons and the
requested change to insert the '_' as in JAm_pH. Jonathan?
Please start looking at the content and see what should be fixed. This
is about the content's readability by humans (grammar/typos/flow) and
machines (HTML/CSS compliency).
The latest release (including the working search) is here:
http://perl.apache.org/preview/modperl-docs/dst_html/index.html
So if we get the logo issue resolved asap, we should be able to make the
site's preview somewhere in the middle of the next week.
I suggest the following plan:
1. when the 4 items are completed we announce the preview URL at the
users list and invite people to search for bugs and send content
patches. Let's give this process about 2 weeks. During these 2 weeks we
should automate all the build process and move the build environment on
apache.org from my home dir to a place where all others with commit
access can use it.
2. Once the review process is completed we replace the old site with the
new one and announce the new site worldwide.
__________________________________________________________________
Stas Bekman JAm_pH ------> Just Another mod_perl Hacker
http://stason.org/ mod_perl Guide ---> http://perl.apache.org
mailto:stas@stason.org http://use.perl.org http://apacheweek.com
http://modperlbook.org http://apache.org http://ticketmaster.com
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: docs-dev-unsubscribe@perl.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: docs-dev-help@perl.apache.org
Re: modperl site status/road map
Posted by Per Einar Ellefsen <pe...@skynet.be>.
At 17:10 02.04.2002, allan wrote:
>how is "mod_perl" pronounced :)
About that: I thought about having something in the About section about that...
I'm not good in phonetics, so I won't even try, but my pronunciation is a
little like
mod (short pause) perl.
What about yours?
--
Per Einar Ellefsen
per.einar@skynet.be
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: docs-dev-unsubscribe@perl.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: docs-dev-help@perl.apache.org
RE: alternative logo solution Re: modperl site status/road map
Posted by Per Einar Ellefsen <pe...@skynet.be>.
At 20:48 02.04.2002, Jonathan M. Hollin wrote:
> >> I think the line is a little too thick... and the problem now is that
> >> the line somewhat removes the simplicity of the logo, and
> >makes it too
> >> "heavy".
> >
> >well this is just an idea :) and as you have noticed we all
> >like playing
> >with ideas, which is good
>
>I vote for staying with Michaels' original image. It's clean and simple
>and very professional. I really don't think there's going to be any
>name confusion - as someone else stated, it's "mod_perl" throughout the
>documentation... difficult to lose.
>
>+1 for staying with original logo
>-1 for adding underscore (in any guise).
+1 to that... I changed my mind.
--
Per Einar Ellefsen
per.einar@skynet.be
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: docs-dev-unsubscribe@perl.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: docs-dev-help@perl.apache.org
RE: alternative logo solution Re: modperl site status/road map
Posted by "Jonathan M. Hollin" <ne...@digital-word.com>.
>> I think the line is a little too thick... and the problem now is that
>> the line somewhat removes the simplicity of the logo, and
>makes it too
>> "heavy".
>
>well this is just an idea :) and as you have noticed we all
>like playing
>with ideas, which is good
I vote for staying with Michaels' original image. It's clean and simple
and very professional. I really don't think there's going to be any
name confusion - as someone else stated, it's "mod_perl" throughout the
documentation... difficult to lose.
+1 for staying with original logo
-1 for adding underscore (in any guise).
Jonathan M. Hollin - WYPUG Co-ordinator
West Yorkshire Perl User Group
http://wypug.pm.org/
http://wypug.digital-word.com/
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: docs-dev-unsubscribe@perl.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: docs-dev-help@perl.apache.org
Re: alternative logo solution Re: modperl site status/road map
Posted by Stas Bekman <st...@stason.org>.
Per Einar Ellefsen wrote:
> At 19:08 02.04.2002, Stas Bekman wrote:
>
>> Jonathan M. Hollin wrote:
>>
>>>> Another possible reason for the logo with the underscore not looking
>>>> right is the fact that _ is colored the same color as 'mod'. If we
>>>> colour half of the _ the same color as 'mod' and the other half as
>>>> 'perl' it "may" look much better... just an idea.
>>>
>>>
>>> I've had a go at this. Image attached...
>>
>>
>> Thanks Bill!
>
>
> It was Jonathan :)
oops, sorry Jonathan :) it's getting late here.
>> looks like I still didn't give up :) doing some more work on
>> Jonathan's take, see the attachment.
>> This logo solves the problem of the underscore, it's not there and
>> it's is there in the same time. What do you think?
>
>
> I think the line is a little too thick... and the problem now is that
> the line somewhat removes the simplicity of the logo, and makes it too
> "heavy".
well this is just an idea :) and as you have noticed we all like playing
with ideas, which is good
__________________________________________________________________
Stas Bekman JAm_pH ------> Just Another mod_perl Hacker
http://stason.org/ mod_perl Guide ---> http://perl.apache.org
mailto:stas@stason.org http://use.perl.org http://apacheweek.com
http://modperlbook.org http://apache.org http://ticketmaster.com
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: docs-dev-unsubscribe@perl.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: docs-dev-help@perl.apache.org
Re: alternative logo solution Re: modperl site status/road map
Posted by Per Einar Ellefsen <pe...@skynet.be>.
At 19:08 02.04.2002, Stas Bekman wrote:
>Jonathan M. Hollin wrote:
>>>Another possible reason for the logo with the underscore not looking
>>>right is the fact that _ is colored the same color as 'mod'. If we
>>>colour half of the _ the same color as 'mod' and the other half as
>>>'perl' it "may" look much better... just an idea.
>>
>>I've had a go at this. Image attached...
>
>Thanks Bill!
It was Jonathan :)
>looks like I still didn't give up :) doing some more work on Jonathan's
>take, see the attachment.
>This logo solves the problem of the underscore, it's not there and it's is
>there in the same time. What do you think?
I think the line is a little too thick... and the problem now is that the
line somewhat removes the simplicity of the logo, and makes it too "heavy".
--
Per Einar Ellefsen
per.einar@skynet.be
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: docs-dev-unsubscribe@perl.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: docs-dev-help@perl.apache.org
Re: alternative logo solution Re: modperl site status/road map
Posted by Bill Moseley <mo...@hank.org>.
At 01:08 AM 04/03/02 +0800, Stas Bekman wrote:
>looks like I still didn't give up :) doing some more work on Jonathan's
>take, see the attachment.
>This logo solves the problem of the underscore, it's not there and it's
>is there in the same time. What do you think?
Seems ok.
In general, I like it without simply because I like more white space. I
just think it's cleaner without, but clearly that's only my opinion, and I
am not a graphic designer.
--
Bill Moseley
mailto:moseley@hank.org
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: docs-dev-unsubscribe@perl.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: docs-dev-help@perl.apache.org
Re: alternative logo solution Re: modperl site status/road map
Posted by allan <la...@inet.uni2.dk>.
Stas Bekman wrote:
> That's the trick, my version has the underscore implied, by adding a
> single char space between the two words, though the two words are still
> connected by the underline.
>
> anyway this is just an idea.
oh, now i get it, sorry. but i think then you should have
added more space between the d and p.
./allan
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: docs-dev-unsubscribe@perl.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: docs-dev-help@perl.apache.org
Re: alternative logo solution Re: modperl site status/road map
Posted by Stas Bekman <st...@stason.org>.
allan wrote:
> i should keep quiet but i can't because i feel strongly
> against these.
>
> stas and jonathan,
>
> nice try both of you but i think your images misses one of
> the points as beeing a logo.
>
> stas' image: to me there's no underscore at all - just an
> underline in two colours. so in that sense its pointless,
> sorry for sounding harsh :)
That's the trick, my version has the underscore implied, by adding a
single char space between the two words, though the two words are still
connected by the underline.
anyway this is just an idea.
--
__________________________________________________________________
Stas Bekman JAm_pH ------> Just Another mod_perl Hacker
http://stason.org/ mod_perl Guide ---> http://perl.apache.org
mailto:stas@stason.org http://use.perl.org http://apacheweek.com
http://modperlbook.org http://apache.org http://ticketmaster.com
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: docs-dev-unsubscribe@perl.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: docs-dev-help@perl.apache.org
Re: alternative logo solution Re: modperl site status/road map
Posted by allan <la...@inet.uni2.dk>.
i should keep quiet but i can't because i feel strongly
against these.
stas and jonathan,
nice try both of you but i think your images misses one of
the points as beeing a logo.
stas' image: to me there's no underscore at all - just an
underline in two colours. so in that sense its pointless,
sorry for sounding harsh :)
jonathan's image: i think the underscore resembles the red
cross logo just in gray-blue and therefore noisier.
one of the very nice things about the winning logo is its
"cleanliness" - there's no noise at all, it's well-balanced
and the colours /black/gray/blue are perfect on a white
background. if you stare at it you won't notice or feel any
disturbabces at all - the same cannot be said about your
efforts IMO. i have also tried myself but gave up, i think
the logo was (or look like it was) designed by a
proffesional designer (though i don't know).
./allan
Stas Bekman wrote:
>
> Jonathan M. Hollin wrote:
> >>Another possible reason for the logo with the underscore not looking
> >>right is the fact that _ is colored the same color as 'mod'. If we
> >>colour half of the _ the same color as 'mod' and the other half as
> >>'perl' it "may" look much better... just an idea.
> >
> >
> > I've had a go at this. Image attached...
>
> Thanks Bill!
>
> looks like I still didn't give up :) doing some more work on Jonathan's
> take, see the attachment.
> This logo solves the problem of the underscore, it's not there and it's
> is there in the same time. What do you think?
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: docs-dev-unsubscribe@perl.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: docs-dev-help@perl.apache.org
alternative logo solution Re: modperl site status/road map
Posted by Stas Bekman <st...@stason.org>.
Jonathan M. Hollin wrote:
>>Another possible reason for the logo with the underscore not looking
>>right is the fact that _ is colored the same color as 'mod'. If we
>>colour half of the _ the same color as 'mod' and the other half as
>>'perl' it "may" look much better... just an idea.
>
>
> I've had a go at this. Image attached...
Thanks Bill!
looks like I still didn't give up :) doing some more work on Jonathan's
take, see the attachment.
This logo solves the problem of the underscore, it's not there and it's
is there in the same time. What do you think?
__________________________________________________________________
Stas Bekman JAm_pH ------> Just Another mod_perl Hacker
http://stason.org/ mod_perl Guide ---> http://perl.apache.org
mailto:stas@stason.org http://use.perl.org http://apacheweek.com
http://modperlbook.org http://apache.org http://ticketmaster.com
RE: modperl site status/road map
Posted by "Jonathan M. Hollin" <ne...@digital-word.com>.
>Another possible reason for the logo with the underscore not looking
>right is the fact that _ is colored the same color as 'mod'. If we
>colour half of the _ the same color as 'mod' and the other half as
>'perl' it "may" look much better... just an idea.
I've had a go at this. Image attached...
Jonathan M. Hollin - WYPUG Co-ordinator
West Yorkshire Perl User Group
http://wypug.pm.org/
http://wypug.digital-word.com/
Re: modperl site status/road map
Posted by Stas Bekman <st...@stason.org>.
Bill Moseley wrote:
> At 12:20 AM 04/03/02 +0800, Stas Bekman wrote:
>
>
>>>Jonathan, you did a great job. A vote was
>>>not required, but a nice thing to do. And now we have a logo picked by a
>>>vote.
>>
>
>>I'm not arguing about the design and votes (where if I read you
>>correctly you seem
>>to contradict yourself in the first part of your reply, where you say
>>that the votes
>>aren't binding)
>
>
> Of course, there's no rule I can't contradict myself ;)
>
> You mean where I said:
>
> "There's no mod_perl constitution that binds web site designers to any
> specific design selected by a vote."
>
> That's just bad writing -- I was trying to saying that there was nothing
> requiring us to have a vote in the first place. I think some people will
> be put out if the logo is modified from the winning design.
that's very different :) so your say is that the vote is binding.
>>My only concern is that using 'modperl' in logo will lead to a situation
>>where people
>>will start using 'modperl' as the product name. But the product name is
>>'mod_perl',
>>like it ot not.
>
>
> I don't think that's a problem. Hey, look at the subject of this message.
> The slippery slope has started! It's kind of the Perl/perl issue in that
> it's used both ways and sometime incorrectly, but everyone knows what is
> meant (PERL is the one that bugs me;).
>
> It's not like people are going to say "I've installed modperl. Should I
> have installed mod_perl instead?"
>
>
>>I do agree that the logo looks nicer without the underscore, but it's
>>not so correct.
>
>
> Yes, but again it's just a graphic image, and the term mod_perl is used all
> over the site, so nobody will get that confused.
>
> How about an alt-tab that pops up "mod_perl" ;)
>
> On the other hand:
>
> I belong to a sailing club here in Berkeley that's all volunteer supported.
> It's been around for many many years (with many long-term members). We
> elect nine members to make decisions. Of course, we now have a mailing
> list, so unlike in the old days when things would only get done because
> someone did it, now things get debated so much that nothing gets done very
> quickly -- or when it gets done half the people feel like they got screwed.
>
> Most of the old-time members are wise. They know if you want to make a
> (reasonable) change, you just do it. People complain for a while, then
> everyone gets use to it, then it becomes the only way. ;)
Since I don't have strong feeling about this issue, but was trying to
protect the correctness, I give up :) Since more involved people prefer
it without the underscore that's fine with me.
Has anybody thought running this though Doug? I'm not sure he is aware
of the voting and the results.
__________________________________________________________________
Stas Bekman JAm_pH ------> Just Another mod_perl Hacker
http://stason.org/ mod_perl Guide ---> http://perl.apache.org
mailto:stas@stason.org http://use.perl.org http://apacheweek.com
http://modperlbook.org http://apache.org http://ticketmaster.com
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: docs-dev-unsubscribe@perl.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: docs-dev-help@perl.apache.org
Re: modperl site status/road map
Posted by Bill Moseley <mo...@hank.org>.
At 12:20 AM 04/03/02 +0800, Stas Bekman wrote:
>> Jonathan, you did a great job. A vote was
>> not required, but a nice thing to do. And now we have a logo picked by a
>> vote.
>I'm not arguing about the design and votes (where if I read you
>correctly you seem
>to contradict yourself in the first part of your reply, where you say
>that the votes
>aren't binding)
Of course, there's no rule I can't contradict myself ;)
You mean where I said:
"There's no mod_perl constitution that binds web site designers to any
specific design selected by a vote."
That's just bad writing -- I was trying to saying that there was nothing
requiring us to have a vote in the first place. I think some people will
be put out if the logo is modified from the winning design.
>My only concern is that using 'modperl' in logo will lead to a situation
>where people
>will start using 'modperl' as the product name. But the product name is
>'mod_perl',
>like it ot not.
I don't think that's a problem. Hey, look at the subject of this message.
The slippery slope has started! It's kind of the Perl/perl issue in that
it's used both ways and sometime incorrectly, but everyone knows what is
meant (PERL is the one that bugs me;).
It's not like people are going to say "I've installed modperl. Should I
have installed mod_perl instead?"
>I do agree that the logo looks nicer without the underscore, but it's
>not so correct.
Yes, but again it's just a graphic image, and the term mod_perl is used all
over the site, so nobody will get that confused.
How about an alt-tab that pops up "mod_perl" ;)
On the other hand:
I belong to a sailing club here in Berkeley that's all volunteer supported.
It's been around for many many years (with many long-term members). We
elect nine members to make decisions. Of course, we now have a mailing
list, so unlike in the old days when things would only get done because
someone did it, now things get debated so much that nothing gets done very
quickly -- or when it gets done half the people feel like they got screwed.
Most of the old-time members are wise. They know if you want to make a
(reasonable) change, you just do it. People complain for a while, then
everyone gets use to it, then it becomes the only way. ;)
--
Bill Moseley
mailto:moseley@hank.org
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: docs-dev-unsubscribe@perl.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: docs-dev-help@perl.apache.org
Re: modperl site status/road map
Posted by Stas Bekman <st...@stason.org>.
Bill Moseley wrote:
> At 05:01 PM 04/02/02 +0800, Stas Bekman wrote:
>
>
>>Jonathan M. Hollin wrote:
>>
>>>Through all of this, I had forgotten that our new logo and buttons had
>>>been chosen through a democratic vote, and I realise that it is not my
>>>place to disregard that vote by modifying the winning logo and
>>>soliciting the development of a new button. For all of this, I
>>>sincerely apologise.
>>
>
> Jonathan, you did a great job. There's no mod_perl constitution that binds
> web site designers to any specific design selected by a vote. A vote was
> not required, but a nice thing to do. And now we have a logo picked by a
> vote.
>
> Looking back, I think we should have just offered logos, because picking
> the images a la carte doesn't let the images follow a theme. They don't
> have to all match, but my guess is that would be a better design if
> everything worked together. But it will look fine regardless, although
> being consistent helps develop the mod_perl "brand."
>
> On the other hand, nobody is going to get confused about what mod_perl is
> just because there's different image themes. mod_perl isn't a soft drink
> or a bag of cookies that someone shops for in their local market ("let's
> see, should we get the mod_perl, php, or java today?").
well said
>>I think it's OK to have a few buttons to choose from, for other sites
>>to link back to perl.apache.org. So we just need to create a new button
>>based on the winner design and then we have 3 buttons to choose from.
>>Regarding the logo issue, I think that the conclusion was that we must
>>have the underscore in the logo. Otherwise we have a problem of
>>
>> modperl != mod_perl
>
>
> Stas, the logo doesn't need to compile. ;)
>
>
>>The vote was for the logo design, not the wording/spel?ing. Correct me
>>if I'm wrong but I don't think that we break the rules if we 'fix' the
>>name in the winner logo to match the product name, disregarding your
>>likes or dislikes of this name.
>
>
> I think the vote was for the design, and that includes the letters and
> spelling. Maybe the reason it won in part was because it didn't have the
> underscore? There were designs without the underscore to pick from. What
> if the winning design had been some cog and big initials MP? Couldn't
> really justify squeezing in the rest of the letters and calling it the same
> winning design.
>
> Someone posted a version of the winning logo with an underscore. I didn't
> think that logo looked right. It looked like the underscore was forced in.
>
> Since the logo was picked by a vote the first time, I think if the logo is
> changed we should do another vote, out of respect for those that voted the
> first time. No, that's probably a bad idea. That's like saying "a few of
> use were not happy with the results of the majority vote, so let's do
> another." If you/we feel strongly that the logo needs an underscore, just
> make an the change.
>
> But, I think it's just fine the way it is, really.
I'm not arguing about the design and votes (where if I read you
correctly you seem
to contradict yourself in the first part of your reply, where you say
that the votes
aren't binding)
My only concern is that using 'modperl' in logo will lead to a situation
where people
will start using 'modperl' as the product name. But the product name is
'mod_perl',
like it ot not.
I do agree that the logo looks nicer without the underscore, but it's
not so correct.
May be if don't use SVG in first place, we can draw the underscore to be
much smaller,
but still an underscore, thus keeping the image tight and the logo correct.
Another possible reason for the logo with the underscore not looking
right is the fact that _ is colored the same color as 'mod'. If we
colour half of the _ the same color as 'mod' and the other half as
'perl' it "may" look much better... just an idea.
__________________________________________________________________
Stas Bekman JAm_pH ------> Just Another mod_perl Hacker
http://stason.org/ mod_perl Guide ---> http://perl.apache.org
mailto:stas@stason.org http://use.perl.org http://apacheweek.com
http://modperlbook.org http://apache.org http://ticketmaster.com
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: docs-dev-unsubscribe@perl.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: docs-dev-help@perl.apache.org
Re: modperl site status/road map
Posted by allan <la...@inet.uni2.dk>.
Bill Moseley wrote:
>
> At 11:10 PM 04/02/02 +0800, allan wrote:
> >how is "mod_perl" pronounced :)
>
> Just as for Linux, let's get Doug to record himself saying it, and put a
> .wav file on site ;)
yes good idea, postgresql had something similar on their
site ...
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: docs-dev-unsubscribe@perl.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: docs-dev-help@perl.apache.org
Re: modperl site status/road map
Posted by Per Einar Ellefsen <pe...@skynet.be>.
At 18:24 02.04.2002, Bill Moseley wrote:
>At 11:10 PM 04/02/02 +0800, allan wrote:
> >how is "mod_perl" pronounced :)
>
>Just as for Linux, let's get Doug to record himself saying it, and put a
>.wav file on site ;)
Exactly what I thought of too, only it doesn't have so much relevance.
After all, Doug isn't called mos or something... But, yeah, it could be a
nice twist.
--
Per Einar Ellefsen
per.einar@skynet.be
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: docs-dev-unsubscribe@perl.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: docs-dev-help@perl.apache.org
RE: modperl site status/road map
Posted by "Jonathan M. Hollin" <ne...@digital-word.com>.
>Just as for Linux, let's get Doug to record himself saying it,
>and put a .wav file on site ;)
+1 - I like this idea! :-)
Jonathan M. Hollin - WYPUG Co-ordinator
West Yorkshire Perl User Group
http://wypug.pm.org/
http://wypug.digital-word.com/
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: docs-dev-unsubscribe@perl.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: docs-dev-help@perl.apache.org
Re: modperl site status/road map
Posted by Bill Moseley <mo...@hank.org>.
At 11:10 PM 04/02/02 +0800, allan wrote:
>how is "mod_perl" pronounced :)
Just as for Linux, let's get Doug to record himself saying it, and put a
.wav file on site ;)
--
Bill Moseley
mailto:moseley@hank.org
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: docs-dev-unsubscribe@perl.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: docs-dev-help@perl.apache.org
Re: modperl site status/road map
Posted by allan <la...@inet.uni2.dk>.
Bill Moseley wrote:
> Since the logo was picked by a vote the first time, I think if the logo is
> changed we should do another vote, out of respect for those that voted the
> first time. No, that's probably a bad idea. That's like saying "a few of
> use were not happy with the results of the majority vote, so let's do
> another." If you/we feel strongly that the logo needs an underscore, just
> make an the change.
>
> But, I think it's just fine the way it is, really.
+1 for leaving the logo as is now.
since the majority voted for a non-underscore logo, the
majority won't mind a missing underscore in the logo i
guess.
how is "mod_perl" pronounced :)
./allan
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: docs-dev-unsubscribe@perl.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: docs-dev-help@perl.apache.org
Re: modperl site status/road map
Posted by Bill Moseley <mo...@hank.org>.
At 05:01 PM 04/02/02 +0800, Stas Bekman wrote:
>Jonathan M. Hollin wrote:
>> Through all of this, I had forgotten that our new logo and buttons had
>> been chosen through a democratic vote, and I realise that it is not my
>> place to disregard that vote by modifying the winning logo and
>> soliciting the development of a new button. For all of this, I
>> sincerely apologise.
Jonathan, you did a great job. There's no mod_perl constitution that binds
web site designers to any specific design selected by a vote. A vote was
not required, but a nice thing to do. And now we have a logo picked by a
vote.
Looking back, I think we should have just offered logos, because picking
the images a la carte doesn't let the images follow a theme. They don't
have to all match, but my guess is that would be a better design if
everything worked together. But it will look fine regardless, although
being consistent helps develop the mod_perl "brand."
On the other hand, nobody is going to get confused about what mod_perl is
just because there's different image themes. mod_perl isn't a soft drink
or a bag of cookies that someone shops for in their local market ("let's
see, should we get the mod_perl, php, or java today?").
>I think it's OK to have a few buttons to choose from, for other sites
>to link back to perl.apache.org. So we just need to create a new button
>based on the winner design and then we have 3 buttons to choose from.
>Regarding the logo issue, I think that the conclusion was that we must
>have the underscore in the logo. Otherwise we have a problem of
>
> modperl != mod_perl
Stas, the logo doesn't need to compile. ;)
>The vote was for the logo design, not the wording/spel?ing. Correct me
>if I'm wrong but I don't think that we break the rules if we 'fix' the
>name in the winner logo to match the product name, disregarding your
>likes or dislikes of this name.
I think the vote was for the design, and that includes the letters and
spelling. Maybe the reason it won in part was because it didn't have the
underscore? There were designs without the underscore to pick from. What
if the winning design had been some cog and big initials MP? Couldn't
really justify squeezing in the rest of the letters and calling it the same
winning design.
Someone posted a version of the winning logo with an underscore. I didn't
think that logo looked right. It looked like the underscore was forced in.
Since the logo was picked by a vote the first time, I think if the logo is
changed we should do another vote, out of respect for those that voted the
first time. No, that's probably a bad idea. That's like saying "a few of
use were not happy with the results of the majority vote, so let's do
another." If you/we feel strongly that the logo needs an underscore, just
make an the change.
But, I think it's just fine the way it is, really.
--
Bill Moseley
mailto:moseley@hank.org
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: docs-dev-unsubscribe@perl.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: docs-dev-help@perl.apache.org
The logo
Posted by Per Einar Ellefsen <pe...@skynet.be>.
At 18:23 02.04.2002, Stas Bekman wrote:
>let's decide first on the underscore issue. any ideas how do we resolve
>it, without much arguing for an undefined period of time?
Actually, I finally agree with Bill and think we shouldn't try and fix it.
If we absolutely do want to, we should contact Matt and ask him modify the
SVG file because I can't do much more with it than what has already done.
--
Per Einar Ellefsen
per.einar@skynet.be
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: docs-dev-unsubscribe@perl.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: docs-dev-help@perl.apache.org
Re: modperl site status/road map
Posted by Stas Bekman <st...@stason.org>.
Per Einar Ellefsen wrote:
> At 11:01 02.04.2002, Stas Bekman wrote:
>
>> Jonathan M. Hollin wrote:
>>
>>> :: 4. logo graphics Jonathan ??? ???
>>> :: :: We still didn't hear what happens to the winner log/buttons and
>>> the :: requested change to insert the '_' as in JAm_pH. Jonathan?
>>> Hello again everyone.
>>> Sorry for my absence from the list, I have been out of the country for a
>>> while and was too busy to keep up with the list(s). I'm back now and am
>>> slowly ploughing through the one and half thousand emails that awaited
>>> my return (and I am beginning to really hate SPAM).
>>> Anyway, back to the logo. I realise that for many of you that are many
>>> unresolved issues and maybe a little confusion over the new mod_perl
>>> logo and I am almost entirely to blame. We've seen an animated version
>>> of our new logo and my crusade to introduce the underscore into Michael
>>> Demers design. Furthermore, painfull as it is to admit it, I lost the
>>> plot completely with regard to the button and suggested that a new
>>> button be designed based on the winning logo, apparently to te exclusion
>>> of the elected buttons...
>>> Through all of this, I had forgotten that our new logo and buttons had
>>> been chosen through a democratic vote, and I realise that it is not my
>>> place to disregard that vote by modifying the winning logo and
>>> soliciting the development of a new button. For all of this, I
>>> sincerely apologise.
>>> Therefore, logo status now is that we have a new logo (which is static
>>> and which doesn't have an underscore) and we have two buttons. All of
>>> which can be seen at:
>>> http://beverley2.digital-word.com/mod_perl/winner/.
>>> I think it makes sense to have, as an option, an additional button -
>>> which would be based on the new logo. But the elected buttons remain
>>> (especially as many websites are already using Juergen Spechts design).
>>> I hope all this makes sense. And, again, I apologise for my poor
>>> handling of this affair.
>>
>>
>> Thanks Jonathan for the followup
>>
>> I think it's OK to have a few buttons to choose from, for other sites
>> to link back to perl.apache.org. So we just need to create a new button
>> based on the winner design and then we have 3 buttons to choose from.
>
>
> Yup, many buttons is a good thing. People just want to link to mod_perl,
> and want to be able to choose something that might fit into their own
> designs.
cool!
>> Regarding the logo issue, I think that the conclusion was that we must
>> have the underscore in the logo. Otherwise we have a problem of
>>
>> modperl != mod_perl
>>
>> The vote was for the logo design, not the wording/spel?ing. Correct me
>> if I'm wrong but I don't think that we break the rules if we 'fix' the
>> name in the winner logo to match the product name, disregarding your
>> likes or dislikes of this name.
>>
>> Anybody is willing to take the task of adding the '_' if Michael
>> Demers is not around? Then the logo can be made by simply "shrinking"
>> the logo.
>
>
> I suggest that we just integrate an underscore in the same font as the
> "mod".
> I did it with Matt's SVG version (i don't really know SVG, but I tried
> my best from what was already there):
> - http://users.skynet.be/pereinar/mod-perl/modperl.svg - the normal
> SVG version
> - http://users.skynet.be/pereinar/mod-perl/modperl.png - PNG version,
> rasterized with Batik
> - http://users.skynet.be/pereinar/mod-perl/modperl-logo-anim.svg -
> animated SVG version (sorry but Batik can't rasterize it): it works ok
> with Adobe PNG viewer on Windows, but not with the Batik viewer... I
> guess we won't use it anyway.
>
> The logo clearly needs to be resized... I guess you can do that directly
> to the PNG graphic, if not it's pretty easy to go in and modify the
> coordinates of the SVG version (or ask me to do it).
great!
let's decide first on the underscore issue. any ideas how do we resolve
it, without much arguing for an undefined period of time?
>> Also I wasn't able to try Matt's SVG animated logo, I couldn't find
>> any utils on linux to do that. The old Adobe plugin crashes mozilla
>> when I try it, the new one is not available for linux (yet).
>
>
> See above.
Thanks :)
__________________________________________________________________
Stas Bekman JAm_pH ------> Just Another mod_perl Hacker
http://stason.org/ mod_perl Guide ---> http://perl.apache.org
mailto:stas@stason.org http://use.perl.org http://apacheweek.com
http://modperlbook.org http://apache.org http://ticketmaster.com
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: docs-dev-unsubscribe@perl.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: docs-dev-help@perl.apache.org
Re: modperl site status/road map
Posted by Per Einar Ellefsen <pe...@skynet.be>.
At 11:01 02.04.2002, Stas Bekman wrote:
>Jonathan M. Hollin wrote:
>>:: 4. logo graphics Jonathan ??? ???
>>:: :: We still didn't hear what happens to the winner log/buttons and the
>>:: requested change to insert the '_' as in JAm_pH. Jonathan?
>>Hello again everyone.
>>Sorry for my absence from the list, I have been out of the country for a
>>while and was too busy to keep up with the list(s). I'm back now and am
>>slowly ploughing through the one and half thousand emails that awaited
>>my return (and I am beginning to really hate SPAM).
>>Anyway, back to the logo. I realise that for many of you that are many
>>unresolved issues and maybe a little confusion over the new mod_perl
>>logo and I am almost entirely to blame. We've seen an animated version
>>of our new logo and my crusade to introduce the underscore into Michael
>>Demers design. Furthermore, painfull as it is to admit it, I lost the
>>plot completely with regard to the button and suggested that a new
>>button be designed based on the winning logo, apparently to te exclusion
>>of the elected buttons...
>>Through all of this, I had forgotten that our new logo and buttons had
>>been chosen through a democratic vote, and I realise that it is not my
>>place to disregard that vote by modifying the winning logo and
>>soliciting the development of a new button. For all of this, I
>>sincerely apologise.
>>Therefore, logo status now is that we have a new logo (which is static
>>and which doesn't have an underscore) and we have two buttons. All of
>>which can be seen at:
>>http://beverley2.digital-word.com/mod_perl/winner/.
>>I think it makes sense to have, as an option, an additional button -
>>which would be based on the new logo. But the elected buttons remain
>>(especially as many websites are already using Juergen Spechts design).
>>I hope all this makes sense. And, again, I apologise for my poor
>>handling of this affair.
>
>Thanks Jonathan for the followup
>
>I think it's OK to have a few buttons to choose from, for other sites
>to link back to perl.apache.org. So we just need to create a new button
>based on the winner design and then we have 3 buttons to choose from.
Yup, many buttons is a good thing. People just want to link to mod_perl,
and want to be able to choose something that might fit into their own designs.
>Regarding the logo issue, I think that the conclusion was that we must
>have the underscore in the logo. Otherwise we have a problem of
>
> modperl != mod_perl
>
>The vote was for the logo design, not the wording/spel?ing. Correct me if
>I'm wrong but I don't think that we break the rules if we 'fix' the name
>in the winner logo to match the product name, disregarding your likes or
>dislikes of this name.
>
>Anybody is willing to take the task of adding the '_' if Michael Demers is
>not around? Then the logo can be made by simply "shrinking" the logo.
I suggest that we just integrate an underscore in the same font as the "mod".
I did it with Matt's SVG version (i don't really know SVG, but I tried my
best from what was already there):
- http://users.skynet.be/pereinar/mod-perl/modperl.svg - the normal SVG
version
- http://users.skynet.be/pereinar/mod-perl/modperl.png - PNG version,
rasterized with Batik
- http://users.skynet.be/pereinar/mod-perl/modperl-logo-anim.svg - animated
SVG version (sorry but Batik can't rasterize it): it works ok with Adobe
PNG viewer on Windows, but not with the Batik viewer... I guess we won't
use it anyway.
The logo clearly needs to be resized... I guess you can do that directly to
the PNG graphic, if not it's pretty easy to go in and modify the
coordinates of the SVG version (or ask me to do it).
>Also I wasn't able to try Matt's SVG animated logo, I couldn't find any
>utils on linux to do that. The old Adobe plugin crashes mozilla when I try
>it, the new one is not available for linux (yet).
See above.
--
Per Einar Ellefsen
per.einar@skynet.be
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: docs-dev-unsubscribe@perl.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: docs-dev-help@perl.apache.org
Re: modperl site status/road map
Posted by Stas Bekman <st...@stason.org>.
Jonathan M. Hollin wrote:
> :: 4. logo graphics Jonathan ??? ???
> ::
> :: We still didn't hear what happens to the winner log/buttons and the
> :: requested change to insert the '_' as in JAm_pH. Jonathan?
>
> Hello again everyone.
>
> Sorry for my absence from the list, I have been out of the country for a
> while and was too busy to keep up with the list(s). I'm back now and am
> slowly ploughing through the one and half thousand emails that awaited
> my return (and I am beginning to really hate SPAM).
>
> Anyway, back to the logo. I realise that for many of you that are many
> unresolved issues and maybe a little confusion over the new mod_perl
> logo and I am almost entirely to blame. We've seen an animated version
> of our new logo and my crusade to introduce the underscore into Michael
> Demers design. Furthermore, painfull as it is to admit it, I lost the
> plot completely with regard to the button and suggested that a new
> button be designed based on the winning logo, apparently to te exclusion
> of the elected buttons...
>
> Through all of this, I had forgotten that our new logo and buttons had
> been chosen through a democratic vote, and I realise that it is not my
> place to disregard that vote by modifying the winning logo and
> soliciting the development of a new button. For all of this, I
> sincerely apologise.
>
> Therefore, logo status now is that we have a new logo (which is static
> and which doesn't have an underscore) and we have two buttons. All of
> which can be seen at:
> http://beverley2.digital-word.com/mod_perl/winner/.
>
> I think it makes sense to have, as an option, an additional button -
> which would be based on the new logo. But the elected buttons remain
> (especially as many websites are already using Juergen Spechts design).
>
> I hope all this makes sense. And, again, I apologise for my poor
> handling of this affair.
Thanks Jonathan for the followup
I think it's OK to have a few buttons to choose from, for other sites
to link back to perl.apache.org. So we just need to create a new button
based on the winner design and then we have 3 buttons to choose from.
Regarding the logo issue, I think that the conclusion was that we must
have the underscore in the logo. Otherwise we have a problem of
modperl != mod_perl
The vote was for the logo design, not the wording/spel?ing. Correct me
if I'm wrong but I don't think that we break the rules if we 'fix' the
name in the winner logo to match the product name, disregarding your
likes or dislikes of this name.
Anybody is willing to take the task of adding the '_' if Michael Demers
is not around? Then the logo can be made by simply "shrinking" the logo.
Also I wasn't able to try Matt's SVG animated logo, I couldn't find any
utils on linux to do that. The old Adobe plugin crashes mozilla when I
try it, the new one is not available for linux (yet).
__________________________________________________________________
Stas Bekman JAm_pH ------> Just Another mod_perl Hacker
http://stason.org/ mod_perl Guide ---> http://perl.apache.org
mailto:stas@stason.org http://use.perl.org http://apacheweek.com
http://modperlbook.org http://apache.org http://ticketmaster.com
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: docs-dev-unsubscribe@perl.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: docs-dev-help@perl.apache.org
RE: modperl site status/road map
Posted by "Jonathan M. Hollin" <ne...@digital-word.com>.
:: 4. logo graphics Jonathan ??? ???
::
:: We still didn't hear what happens to the winner log/buttons and the
:: requested change to insert the '_' as in JAm_pH. Jonathan?
Hello again everyone.
Sorry for my absence from the list, I have been out of the country for a
while and was too busy to keep up with the list(s). I'm back now and am
slowly ploughing through the one and half thousand emails that awaited
my return (and I am beginning to really hate SPAM).
Anyway, back to the logo. I realise that for many of you that are many
unresolved issues and maybe a little confusion over the new mod_perl
logo and I am almost entirely to blame. We've seen an animated version
of our new logo and my crusade to introduce the underscore into Michael
Demers design. Furthermore, painfull as it is to admit it, I lost the
plot completely with regard to the button and suggested that a new
button be designed based on the winning logo, apparently to te exclusion
of the elected buttons...
Through all of this, I had forgotten that our new logo and buttons had
been chosen through a democratic vote, and I realise that it is not my
place to disregard that vote by modifying the winning logo and
soliciting the development of a new button. For all of this, I
sincerely apologise.
Therefore, logo status now is that we have a new logo (which is static
and which doesn't have an underscore) and we have two buttons. All of
which can be seen at:
http://beverley2.digital-word.com/mod_perl/winner/.
I think it makes sense to have, as an option, an additional button -
which would be based on the new logo. But the elected buttons remain
(especially as many websites are already using Juergen Spechts design).
I hope all this makes sense. And, again, I apologise for my poor
handling of this affair.
Kindest regards,
Jonathan M. Hollin - WYPUG Co-ordinator
West Yorkshire Perl User Group
http://wypug.pm.org/ <-- Temporarily off-line
http://wypug.digital-word.com/
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: docs-dev-unsubscribe@perl.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: docs-dev-help@perl.apache.org
Re: modperl site status/road map
Posted by Stas Bekman <st...@stason.org>.
Per Einar Ellefsen wrote:
>>> Since it seems like the place I'm most likely to be able to help,
>>> I'll try looking at the content.
>>> So, what I need to do is:
>>> - add descriptions all over
>>> - check it all for HTML/CSS compliancy
>>> - maybe work on some extra content for the front page (the
>>> introduction allan mentioned)
>>> Ok, I'll try to get it at as soon as possible.. (not before wednesday)
>>
>>
>> Fantastic! If you need any help just shout my way :)
>
>
> Couple of questions:
> - HTML and CSS validity tools (that work with Windows / Cygwin) ?
Not being an active HTML coder I hardly know of any for linux :) I think
if you head to w3c.org you will find the right pointers. Otherwise
google.com should be of a great help. On linux I use sgmlcheck.
Do let us know if you find some good tools and we document this for the
future use.
> - which sections should I look most carefully at? (for the doc that is)
OK, it goes like this:
1. All documents be they .html or .pod need to have description. for
.pod files this is =head1 Description, where the first paragraph is
being used as an abstract on the index.html pages. And for .html files
this is a <meta name="Description" ...> see the existing examples.
2. need to check HTML/CSS validity.
- since most of the HTML is autogenerated if the templates and the
pod2html converter are clean then the HTML will be created prop. One
exception is unescaped unsafe HTML chars in POD (like & and <, >). I
think I've shoot off most of these, but it's possible that some have stayed.
- there are a few HTML source docs and these should be checked one by one
- the output of search needs to be checked too and if something is wrong
the search/search.tt is to be fixed.
Ideally if you find a tool that can work recursively through the whole
tree, this will be the perfect thing.
3. Content:
/docs/1.0 - has been reviewed a lot so I'd look here at the very end
/docs/2.0 - is very new and probably very broken, but it doesn't matter,
it's in very early alpha
but do go through the rest of the content which is just a few pages
notice that .pods under /maillist and /stories are autogenerated from
the template.
I think that covers it all.
Thanks!
__________________________________________________________________
Stas Bekman JAm_pH ------> Just Another mod_perl Hacker
http://stason.org/ mod_perl Guide ---> http://perl.apache.org
mailto:stas@stason.org http://use.perl.org http://apacheweek.com
http://modperlbook.org http://apache.org http://ticketmaster.com
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: docs-dev-unsubscribe@perl.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: docs-dev-help@perl.apache.org
Re: modperl site status/road map
Posted by Per Einar Ellefsen <pe...@skynet.be>.
At 19:03 25.03.2002, Stas Bekman wrote:
>Per Einar Ellefsen wrote:
>>At 18:32 25.03.2002, Stas Bekman wrote:
>>
>>>There are four things left to be completed before we can release the new
>>>site:
>>>
>>># Item Owner Completion Estimated time
>>>---------------------------------------------------------------
>>>1. complete the design Allan 90% about one week
>>>2. fine-tune the search Bill 90% about one week
>>>3. work on the content ??? 70% need help here
>>>4. logo graphics Jonathan ??? ???
>>
>>Since it seems like the place I'm most likely to be able to help, I'll
>>try looking at the content.
>>So, what I need to do is:
>>- add descriptions all over
>>- check it all for HTML/CSS compliancy
>>- maybe work on some extra content for the front page (the introduction
>>allan mentioned)
>>Ok, I'll try to get it at as soon as possible.. (not before wednesday)
>
>Fantastic! If you need any help just shout my way :)
Couple of questions:
- HTML and CSS validity tools (that work with Windows / Cygwin) ?
- which sections should I look most carefully at? (for the doc that is)
--
Per Einar Ellefsen
per.einar@skynet.be
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: docs-cvs-unsubscribe@perl.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: docs-cvs-help@perl.apache.org
Re: modperl site status/road map
Posted by Stas Bekman <st...@stason.org>.
Per Einar Ellefsen wrote:
> At 18:32 25.03.2002, Stas Bekman wrote:
>
>> There are four things left to be completed before we can release the
>> new site:
>>
>> # Item Owner Completion Estimated time
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------
>> 1. complete the design Allan 90% about one week
>> 2. fine-tune the search Bill 90% about one week
>> 3. work on the content ??? 70% need help here
>> 4. logo graphics Jonathan ??? ???
>
>
> Since it seems like the place I'm most likely to be able to help, I'll
> try looking at the content.
> So, what I need to do is:
> - add descriptions all over
> - check it all for HTML/CSS compliancy
> - maybe work on some extra content for the front page (the introduction
> allan mentioned)
>
> Ok, I'll try to get it at as soon as possible.. (not before wednesday)
Fantastic! If you need any help just shout my way :)
__________________________________________________________________
Stas Bekman JAm_pH ------> Just Another mod_perl Hacker
http://stason.org/ mod_perl Guide ---> http://perl.apache.org
mailto:stas@stason.org http://use.perl.org http://apacheweek.com
http://modperlbook.org http://apache.org http://ticketmaster.com
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: docs-cvs-unsubscribe@perl.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: docs-cvs-help@perl.apache.org
Re: modperl site status/road map
Posted by Per Einar Ellefsen <pe...@skynet.be>.
At 18:32 25.03.2002, Stas Bekman wrote:
>There are four things left to be completed before we can release the new site:
>
># Item Owner Completion Estimated time
>---------------------------------------------------------------
>1. complete the design Allan 90% about one week
>2. fine-tune the search Bill 90% about one week
>3. work on the content ??? 70% need help here
>4. logo graphics Jonathan ??? ???
Since it seems like the place I'm most likely to be able to help, I'll try
looking at the content.
So, what I need to do is:
- add descriptions all over
- check it all for HTML/CSS compliancy
- maybe work on some extra content for the front page (the introduction
allan mentioned)
Ok, I'll try to get it at as soon as possible.. (not before wednesday)
>We still didn't hear what happens to the winner log/buttons and the
>requested change to insert the '_' as in JAm_pH. Jonathan?
>
>Please start looking at the content and see what should be fixed. This is
>about the content's readability by humans (grammar/typos/flow) and
>machines (HTML/CSS compliency).
>
>The latest release (including the working search) is here:
>http://perl.apache.org/preview/modperl-docs/dst_html/index.html
>
>So if we get the logo issue resolved asap, we should be able to make the
>site's preview somewhere in the middle of the next week.
>
>I suggest the following plan:
>
>1. when the 4 items are completed we announce the preview URL at the users
>list and invite people to search for bugs and send content patches. Let's
>give this process about 2 weeks. During these 2 weeks we should automate
>all the build process and move the build environment on apache.org from my
>home dir to a place where all others with commit access can use it.
>
>2. Once the review process is completed we replace the old site with the
>new one and announce the new site worldwide.
--
Per Einar Ellefsen
per.einar@skynet.be
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: docs-dev-unsubscribe@perl.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: docs-dev-help@perl.apache.org